CosmicSkeptic on the Influence of Hitchens and Dawkins (How I Became an Atheist)

[@AlexOConnorClips]

The full discussion between CosmicSkeptic and Bishop Barron is available here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3ScpX6bf6h9qq8 | For an exclusive bonus clip of the two discussing the Trinity, sign up at www.thebigconversation.show!

[@ozAqVvhhNue]

I want a tardigrade plush

[@konyvnyelv.]

I suggest you to read 'The Naked Bible' by Mauro Biglino and Giorgio Cattaneo

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

I only just recently discovered your channel. Please 🙏 keep producing this wonderful content.

[@stevenaustin8274]

God delusion poor? Now you are getting a delusional sense of self importance ! Dawkins and Hitchens are and will always be well above your pay grade ! yes your a you tube success and that’s about it

[@damianedwards8827]

It's Unfortunate. God is simply the Existence of Love. Everybody Believes Love Exists. Atheist Unnecessarily Overcomplicate it.

[@TheAwkwardGuy]

My main reason for being an Atheist is basically Richard Dawkins videos. I also always thought about how the majority of Christians and Muslims had matching Christian or Muslim parents. Like I just thought "Yeah, let's be real, you wouldn't have believed in any of this if you weren't born into it".

[@mohammedphilonous6856]

Yes but thats not a sufficient reason to deny the existence of a God. I too wonder how people stick to things they just have been thought and never verified them, if one looks from a neutral point of view, one cannot help but to be a skeptic, it is I think the only rational choice, idk.

[@TheAwkwardGuy]

@@mohammedphilonous6856 I never said it was a sufficient reason to deny the existence of the "god" concept. It is, however, sufficient reason to make the claim that most people would absolutely not be religious without the indoctrination pathway. No one would join a cult if the cult was entirely optional and non-threatening.

[@arsene4440]

I probably wouldn't be a Christian if my parents were not christian, but it doesn't mean Christianity is false.

[@flipwright1138]

@@arsene4440 Christianity isn't false in the same way that the thousands of other proposed God claims aren't false. They just haven't met the burden of proof to accept them as True.

[@jesuslopez-fe7dv]

No shit Watson!

[@charlesmadison1384]

Speaking of influencers ... Back in the mid 70's, while watching the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, a guest named George H. Smith sat & talked with Johnny. The topic was Smith's new book, "Atheism: The Case Against God" At that time, I was a doubter, but would have still checked the box on any questionnaire as "Christian". After listening to the Smith/Carson dialogue, I went to a bookstore and bought a copy of the book & read it thoroughly; and haven't had any doubt about the "God" fantasy since.

[@llaauuddrruupp]

Dawkins's view of God in The God Delusion is as 'the old man in the sky?' He actually spells out how he views the God hypothesis that he attacks: "There exists a super-human, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us." Where's the old man in that?

[@sujoyteslesl]

That 'old man in the sky' is just the label he gives to represent all the theistic assertions made in support of their being a God of sorts. He's offering rebuttals to other people's assertions. His characterization of the god at the centre of these beliefs is fair, as the ones made generally fit the same description in one way or another. The thing is that there is yet to be a concrete objectively verifiable god that seems interested in actively straightening the whole thing out; instead it seems like it's up to everyone out there spouting their own version of a being in the heavens which they assert as definitely existing. Dawkins is just in his rebuttals, I feel. Cheers.

[@llaauuddrruupp]

@@sujoytesleslHi. I'm not sure, but I think you misunderstood my point. Alex seems to call Dawkins out for misrepresenting "God," yet Dawkins's description of what he attacks in The God Delusion seems to defend against a callout like that. I'm curious about the apparent discrepancy between Alex's claim about Dawkins's view of "God" and what appears to be Dawkins's actual view.

[@sujoyteslesl]

@@llaauuddrruupp Yeah, now that I see how you've phrased it, that does indeed raise a brow. Do you think Alex misrepresented Dawkins' view? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding again (YT comment threads are hardly the ideal spot for the unpacking of points brought up in theism videos)

[@llaauuddrruupp]

@@sujoyteslesl I suspect Alex did, yes, and I'd be curious to hear more of his thoughts on it. I don't like it when two intellectuals I admire disagree on an important point, and I don't know which one has the better argument :-)

[@sujoyteslesl]

@@llaauuddrruupp Yes, and at this point of the game, I'd be interested to see how Alex and Rationality Rules, who seem to be good mates, would discuss Hitchens. On the point of Dawkins, I think to some degree, he is the biggest victim of his own, for lack of a better word, celebrity. To quote Hitchhiker's Guide, ultimately Dawkins "...is just this guy, y'know." But his position gets strawmanned a lot, he is nowadays not conversationally met in any charitable way by those who question his position on things (think the recent debacle with the AHA). To further your sentiment though, I too wish two intellectuals I admire would be able to unpack such touchpoints in a more practical conversation. Sorry for the ramble.

[@DeeBoudreau]

I thought it was silly even as a child. I was told to stand in the hall during CCD classes for laughing. I thought they were joking.

[@mohammedphilonous6856]

Excellent clip man, I am going through exactly the same thing, only I can add that for some mysterious reason, despite the evidence against it, I still search and hope as CS lewis perfectly phrased it, "The ancient hope that still will rise again- Of a just God that cares for earthly pain", not necessarly the bearded guy in the sky or the vicious one in monotheism, but something you know.

[@rithulaebrahim9463]

I feel you bruh✨

[@uncoiledfish2561]

I was never indoctrinated. I can’t relate. It is fascinated to listen to you religious types though. You really thought heaven was real? 🤯 madness.

[@mohammedphilonous6856]

@@uncoiledfish2561 you are in no position to judge anybody on previous opinions or ideas they held. And in no way you are special in your not indoctrinated position, lots of people are never indoctrinated religiously, it is completely arbitrary.

[@uncoiledfish2561]

@@mohammedphilonous6856 This is absolutely true, sorry what was your point?

[@Midnightskiddo]

The notion of an afterlife is what usually holds a lot of us back when facing such scepticism against religion. Especially when growing up in a religious community, Heaven and Hell are brought up often in schools and homes and having grown up as Muslim, verses describing hell and heaven in the Quran are often difficult to be taken lightly when one is still in the realization phase. I'm almost completely fine now but that phase can be difficult

[@ad1108am]

So what is this more sophisticated image of god rather than ‘the old man in the sky’ which is constantly portrayed as such in so many catholic churches art, at least those I visited, and described as a ‘father’ in the Bible? 🤔 Are you planning to make a video discussing your more in-depth understanding of this potential being and how you relate to it these days?

[@neocyte85]

yes. alex should clear this up. i fail to catch his drift lately.

[@ad1108am]

@@neocyte85 Which is expected if he does more research than most of us, and I guess by the virtue of his degree alone he does, but it would be nice to be able to follow.

[@mohammedphilonous6856]

It is a subjective view and probably only wishful thinking, as wittgenstein said. But just imagine there really is something there much more fascinating than the ugliness of monotheism or any kind of theism.

[@neocyte85]

@@ad1108am agreed. but i just don't see how he's saying outright that dawkins's and hitchens's objections are without substance. i mean, i do get that christians view god's atrocities are completely justified. but isn't that the issue in the first place? that we don't think that it is?

[@neocyte85]

@@ad1108am agreed. but i just don't see how he's saying outright that dawkins's and hitchens's objections are without substance. i mean, i do get that christians view god's atrocities are completely justified. but isn't that the issue in the first place? that we don't think that it is?

[@justanotherhomosapian5101]

My deconversion was a gradual process too, but what first made me think about my belief in a different light was in class and my Hindu teacher was telling us about her religion, then my friend who also followed my belief said "But you know it's wrong to pray to other gods." I thought about that for a long time and how there are multiple factors that we have no direct control over which greatly influences the religion we follow and i couldn't see why she should be punished for eternity over something she can't control.

[@madnessoverload7824]

Yeah, our religious beliefs are mostly dictated by geography, so we can't assert that our religion is true just because we were born into it. Learning about the existence of other religions was one of the first things that made question christianity.

[@calebjohnson7510]

I completely respect and understand your point of view, but if you’re being intellectually honest, you’d admit that your argument is purely an emotional one. Again, it is an understandable viewpoint, but one which is logically unsustainable.

[@madnessoverload7824]

@@calebjohnson7510 How is it unsustainable? Most people don't choose their religion, so it is outside of their control, and simply praying to the wrong god does not affect the well-being of other people. Therefore, it's an action that falls outside the sphere of morality and doesn't warrant any punishment. The fact that the christian god punishes such actions contradicts the idea that he is morally perfect and is enough reason to doubt his existence. Don't throw big words around to look smart. Emotional and logical arguments are not mutually exclusive.

[@calebjohnson7510]

@@madnessoverload7824 I’d like to start off by saying that I’m grateful for your response because I believe conversing with those who believe different is beneficial. Second, if I came off as someone who tried to use big words to seem smart(like a pseudo intellectual), I apologize. I don’t claim to be a smart person, nor do I ever try and act like it. I don’t know everything, and I’ve never claimed to be an expert, especially not in regards to topics such as this one. Having said that, I do think it’s important to note that the ability to choose what religion to follow invalidates the main comments last point. Every person has control over which religion to follow. Every person is capable of analyzing a religion, and determining how sound and reasonable it is through verifying the validity of the claims made in X religion are in fact true. Also, carefully examining the philosophical arguments for X religion is a reliable way to test the validity of a particular religion. I firmly believe in the doctrine of free will, and free will does a great service in providing a sufficient explanation for the very problem that “made from the stars” is struggling with. Having said all of that, please remember that I’m no expert, and I’m certainly not an intellectual. Although, I do enjoy talking about topics like this. I’m not sure how strong my view is, but I’d appreciate a respectful response so we can continue trading ideas for one another to consider. Have a nice bro

[@calebjohnson7510]

@@madnessoverload7824 * verifying the validity of the claims made in X religion. I didn’t mean to add “are in fact true”.

[@samuelqueiroz156]

As I christian, I admire your intelectual humility. Despite the fact that you no longer believe in God, you still have a open mind to change your ideas. You are different from the atheists there are 100% sure of their position. Great discussion, Alex!

[@kittyhooch1]

I was a Christian for 30 years. I was holding my Bible open and praying when faith left me. I wanted it back. For several days I was in panic that I had become a bad person because I was taught atheists were bad. This happened after five years of studying my Bible for answers to the question "where is my deceased mother now" and I found no answer. There are just two conflicting verses on resurrection. Alex said he was still searching. Who wouldn't love to believe those fantasies? After losing faith I took full ownership of my life for the first time since I was 17. It was exciting! I spent the next five years researching Christianity from an academic standpoint. How did it begin and grow? What I discovered I only share with Christians if they ask. What would be the point? For me I have comfort that the faith I couldn't get back was holding me back from making the most of this life. Would I like eternal life? If I could choose the terms, yes. The biblical descriptions of heaven leave me cold. Golden streets and nonstop praise sound like a diety that needs a therapist.

[@Sam-ky3su]

Atheists tend to be more open minded than religious people. That's how many of them became atheists in the first place.

[@_a.z]

Honestly asking for solutions to the "big questions" is the best route out of religion, as I discovered myself. The problem is that, often due to indoctrination, people can't or don't want to be honest!

[@PeterMasalski93]

Ive always been an atheist at heart, I could smell the religious bs a mile away.. the atheist experience, dawkins, hitchens and krauss just gave me better guns and deadlier ammunition

[@justabeardedguythatisahero9848]

You mean too much soy and estrogen

[@firstnamelastname5761]

@Joseph Bethnal In your undeveloped mind opinionated=arrogance.

[@Joshcaldwell24]

I’m not sure what you mean when you say better guns and deadly ammunition in an ultimately meaningless universe anyways. The void theism needed to be filled with some worldview

[@christalenglish6105]

I enjoyed listening to this conversation on Unbelievable. Such an excellent episode.

[@FreakHarryPotter]

Thank-you for all your videos on atheism. They've- been really helpful. - An ex-Jew.

[@mohammedphilonous6856]

Now that you have abandoned judaism, did that affect your view on israel? If you dont mind me asking.

[@Ben-ft4li]

I find alex is more reasonble, logical & consistent with his argument than hitchen, harris & dawkins.

[@neocyte85]

i fail to catch your drift here, alex. please do make a video about your whole stance on christianity in general because i don't think you're still describing the biblical christian god in your statements but at the same time you seem to think that you do? why are dawkins's and hitchen's criticisms toward the christian god without substance when they're clearly depicting god's behavior as described in the bible? i'm confused. please do clear this up.

[@captainzappbrannagan]

Alex is not saying that Dawkins and Hitchens were wrong. He celebrates their mind opening, amazing minds, while being honest about a small number of the arguments they used leveraging sensationalism and in some cases specious reasoning.

[@lrvogt1257]

It's pretty evident that, for most people, religion is simple socialization like the food we eat and the music we listen to. I grew up in a suburban town filled with church-goers and never once heard a conversation about religion outside of church. It was all a mundane ritual that everyone was expected to do. The sound of the congregation singing hymns was completely without feeling. If anyone cared it didn't show.

[@richardwilliams473]

Just reading the Bible turned me into an atheist. I mean : A TALKING SNAKE in the Garden of Eden ?????

[@reedclippings8991]

I wish I could see his face after you finished criticizing Dawkins and Hitchens.

[@davidhoffman6980]

I used to like watching Christopher Hitchens on KZbin, but that was mostly for fun and as a catharsis of things that weren't allowed to be said when I was a Christian. Aside from that, he had very little influence on my journey into atheism. A much bigger influence was the good quality KZbinrs who debunked specific claims, and unraveled the bad philosophy and sophistry holding theism up. I too look back on a lot of popular, charismatic non-believers with a little regret or embarrassment-particularly when I parrotted some of what they said.

[@lejlanuhanovic5700]

Can you share the channels or names of those youtubers? I am still very much in love with Christopher and he had a profound impact on me along with Dawkins, Sam Harris, Dennett, etc. But would love to upgrade my knowledge.

[@davidhoffman6980]

@@lejlanuhanovic5700 Hi. The ones who had the biggest impact on me are Potholer54 (he debunked a lot of pseudo science claims from creationists, climate change skeptics, and others. He's rational, fair, cites his sources and teaches people how to track down the source of a claim and double check it), TheBibleSkeptic (Brett Palmer does so much research on Bible and debunks claims made about the Bible by apologists [I highly recommend his series on Elisha and the bears, and his series on the archeology of Jericho]), NonStampCollector (he is hilarious, insightful, and exposes the bad excuses Christians make for atrocities in the Bible, Hell, etc.), Discern4 (he did an excellent series on the lineage of Jesus, and exposes the hypocrisy and double speak of faith), Darkmatter2525 (I now watch him mostly for the entertainment value, and his hilarious comedy, but when I was still struggling with doubts, he helped me see the absurdity of the Biblical stories [if interpreted literally] and theology), Theramintrees (he is the most soothing person I've ever heard, and he teaches people how to understand and combat social manipulation both inside of and outside of religion), TheMessianicManic (now called TMM [shouted out in the previous comment]. I don't like him as much as I used to [I have found other KZbinrs who fill his niche that I like better], and I hate his political content, but I'm talking about the KZbinrs who had the biggest impact on my journey which is now over. Of course if you'd like recommendations on great content that I now think is the best, I'm happy to share. TMM helped me understand some of the underlying flaws in my theism, and especially the unwarranted assumptions that propped it up), Richard Dawkins (not a KZbinr, but plenty of his lessons and illustrations on evolution are on KZbin. I learned about the laryngeal nerve, and evolutionary algorithms from him at a time when I knew nothing about evolution or the evidence it), Ozmaroid (his channel is gone now, but there are a couple of mirrors of his best videos. He gave me peace of mind when it was hard to get, by offering definitive proof that the universe and solar system is at least 100,000 years old [a trivial matter now, but I wanted something that couldn't be argued against or interpreted away and he gave it to me]), and lastly, Jordan B Peterson (he had a bigger impact on me than any other person aside from my parents. I decided to get married at a time when I was considering not doing so. I made a lot of positive changes in my life because of him. He also taught me [via KZbin videos] what the people who wrote the Bible thought, and what and how they were trying to articulate through those stories, and what we can learn from them. I am now no longer hoping to see the end of religion. I am happy to help anyone who lacks faith, and who can't squar their religious beliefs with their understanding of reality in an honest way, and I oppose anyone who willingly lies, and uses information warfare tactics to support religion, but I don't think that trying to deconvert everyone is a good goal [that's where I'm currently at in my journey. If you want details on that, I'm happy to share]). These are the KZbinrs and people who can be seen on KZbin that had the biggest impact on me. Of course I can recommend great channels that I currently watch that have shaped my thinking in other ways, but the ones I mentioned are the ones that helped me when I didn't know who to believe, or what was most reasonable to believe. I hope you find this helpful, and I hope you enjoy the rich content as much as I did/do. Cheers.

[@GaganSingh-nx2yv]

@@lejlanuhanovic5700 I liked Matt Dillahunty a lot.

[@yeshuachrist2300]

Nicely said alex 👏

[@letsgoBrandon204]

I was raised Catholic too, but never felt attached in any way. Went through all the standard ceremonies of first Communion, Confession and then Confirmation, but stopped going as soon as I could decide for myself simply because I didn't want to have to go to church every Sunday. No self questioning happened until much later. I find Jordan Peterson's translations of Biblical stories, and connections with other religious stories really useful. I now look at the Bible as a kind of self help book containing practically useful wisdom. No need to pad it out with bumf like funny clothes and candles.

[@tonydarcy1606]

So the "old man in the sky" type God is old fashioned ? I suppose the modern God works through quantum entanglement now then ? Don't blame Dawkins for adopting the vision propagated by Christians for hundreds of years. TGD might not be to Alex's taste , but it seems pretty sound to me. I had never heard of John Frum before.

[@dongeonmaster8547]

Raised in a christian home I believed as a child, I doubted as a teen and spent my twenties trying to find something or someone that could give me reason to believe again. I was an atheist a good while before I realized I was. It wasn't until years later that I discovered Hitchens, Dawkins and others.

[@-8_8-]

Since we're sharing, I think my biggest influences were Tolkien and classical mythology. The animation of the two made me realize that mythology was religion, meaning religion is mythology. When you combine that with the non answers to fundamental questions, and how that same exists in all religions, it becomes quite clear that it's another tooth fairy, but that your parents aren't aware.

[@catholicmilitaryassociation]

That's a category error.

[@corydorastube]

I must have been about eight or nine years old when I stopped believing in God. That was in 1968 or 1969. I had never heard of The Big Bang or Evolution or Dawkins or Chris Hitchens.

[@glens1800]

I’ve never seen or heard of Hitchin ever losing a debate

[@unicron2109]

Versus Galloway on Iraq?

[@Braintree0173]

i went and watched the full discussion and i enjoyed the whole thing. i liked how bishop barron's definition of faith sounded compatible with the non-existence of free will. i liked the stuff about basing one's philosophy on the firm ground that suffering is most apparent in our experience. honestly it seems like buddhism (or at least some secular interpretations of it) is of better use in a world based in suffering. as far as i understand it, at the core of buddhism is an instruction guide for how to operate a human (because the default understanding is wrong) and how to use that to reduce suffering from the inside. also because not everyone has learned and non-human animals might never learn, just be nice to all sentient beings. all in all, i hope to see you do more with bishop barron he's doing great standing for a position that it's not necessary for good people to take action, cause god will take care of it. of course he'd frame it that god presents you with opportunities to take action. then of course free will gives you the freedom to decide whether or not you care enough about god's plan to help him enact it or something. sounds like a risky plan if you ask me, relying on free agents who can choose to defy the plan at any time for any reason.

[@Jess-TheMess]

Dawkins got me questioning, Sam Harris Convinced me, Hitchens pushed me to Anti-Theism. They're all extremely important to me and my life💖

[@cahalsall]

Becoming an atheist for me was a slow burn. It wasn't until my late 30's that I realized I was an atheist. But it wasn't only religious baggage I had to shed; it was a lot of other things.

[@TimothyNyota]

including your wisdom

[@cahalsall]

You people cannot control yourselves, you have to lash out.

[@blouptqy]

@CosmicClips please provide specific gradations of the value of sentient and non sentient life from plants to bacteria to very primitive shellfish 10 million years ago to current fish to mammals, to dolphins, to spiders, to blood sucking leeches, to hunting, to eating roadkill, to factory farming. Explain what value system you're using to determine this and explain the harm associated with each gradation.

[@Sixtra]

I don’t come from a religious upbringing so I can’t really relate to many of these atheists on KZbin or social media. But when I started engaging in discussions with theists I often relied on Dawkins and Hitchens to begin with. But as times goes by, I can relate to what Alex is saying that the substance in their arguments isn’t as good, the deeper you dwell into philosophical arguments. And I’m of course, far from any philosopher myself.

[@brookemoore8369]

Exactly. Hitchens and Dawkins loved to poke at religious fundamentalism, but they completely overlooked substantial psychological and philosophical arguments pointed towards God.

[@jamespawson6045]

Fair enough. I would just say that no matter how deeply philosophical you get with religion it doesn’t make it any truer which is the point being made by Dawkins, Hichens and Krauss… These three have never said that there’s no philosphical arguments for religion etc etc but just that it’s not true.

[@jamespawson6045]

@@brookemoore8369 what do you mean by substantial and psychological arguments for God? Do these substantial arguments make it any more likely to be true or is it still based on emotion or feeling?

[@brookemoore8369]

James Pawson Well, psychological and philosophical forms of evidence obviously aren’t going to be quite as measurable as scientific evidence, but when you get into the thick of these types of arguments, you see that life is made of meaning, and when you’d strip that away with materialism and naturalism, life becomes all for not… And maybe that’s true that life is just random chance and ultimately meaningless, but people certainly don’t act like their lives are worthless and arbitrary.

[@Nelsathis]

@@brookemoore8369 You sound a lot like theists are talking about atheism. Im not an expert on these topics, but materialism or naturalism dont make a statement about any worth at all. Nor do ever hear this 'by chance' thing being said by actual people following these worldviews. A flower, or sights like a waterfall arent at all less beautiful if they havent been created, and a similar thing is true for life. I dont understand why people with different worldviews assert that under Naturalism life must be worthless and when people dont act that way they seem to think 'oh, then they dont really believe it deep down', instead of just doubting their own view. If im here 'by chance', then there was also a 'chance' that i wouldnt have been here at all. What is there not to appreciate?

[@iainrae6159]

Recently had a correspondence with a 'believer' that claimed Duck billed platypuses made their way to Australia after leaving Noah's Ark. I had enquired how they made 14 000 mile journey to the Ark ( they die in salt water). It seems religious belief requires a suspension of common sense.

[@Premierpoteau]

I like your sweatshirt, is there a way to see the design of the cow ? :)

[@plantpowered269]

I believed in god until my mom, somewhat religious, presented me with the kids' bible, I was 10. While reading, things in the religion severely didn't add up. So, Bible made me an atheist.

[@brookemoore8369]

If you view the Bible from the lens of a fundamentalist then yes, it’s easy to see why the Bible would cause you to question the idea of God and turn away from the idea of “him.” Have you ever tried to view God from outside the fundamentalist bubble though? The rabbit hole gets pretty deep, and it becomes not so easy to dismiss the idea of God entirely.

[@plantpowered269]

@@brookemoore8369 sorry, whatever point I try to see it, it reeks of all possible vice of humanity coming from the god himself and the prophets or various religious leaders. There is a lot of counselling needs to be done before any of those people can learn some respect to humans and animals. Lots of them are really seriously mentally troubled. For me "Alice in Wonderland" makes much more sense than Bible. Or Doctor Who.

[@brookemoore8369]

plant powered So you are saying that whoever wrote the books of the bIble and other religious texts are seriously troubled and need counseling?

[@stussysinglet]

@@brookemoore8369 I think she is talking about religious people in general.. and how they live and treat other fellow humans and animals.. I lean towards the Bible being metaphorically true and there being something that we could label as God although I tend to see this more as a Pantheistic type of God..

[@brookemoore8369]

Brad Raleigh Awe I see… And I don’t disagree that certain religious people don’t do terrible things to people and animals, but you could easily switch that’s round and say that people who don’t believe in God do the same terrible things. Ok cool. I totally see what you’re saying. So you basically believe there is a God because you can look around at nature and see that it was made for a purpose and also finely tuned? You also believe the Bible may not be the absolute truth, but that it contains deep metaphorical truths we can apply to our lives that could become truths? I completely agree with both of those things. What are your thoughts on Jesus?

[@brookemoore8369]

The problem is that most people don’t make it past religious fundamentalism before they see its flaws and ultimately reject the idea of God. If there is a God, “He” would be greater than any of us could fathom or any religious text could depict. It’s time we start thinking and having deeper discussions about God if we are going to bring “Him” up at all. Fundamentalism is almost too shallow of a belief system to hold much weight these days.

[@dennisp9866]

Such a wierd clip. Do catholics not view God as a man in the heavens or sky ? Doesn't he hug you when you die ? Im confussed. Or is Alex just trying to pander to who he's talking to.

[@giamo645]

I lost my dad at the age of 13 yrs. Actually the process of deconversion started then. First I found god useless as I prayed so heartedly for a recovery... I now raised with my wife 2 godless daughters with initial fear that they could suffer a sort of distance from others beeing 'different', but this did not happen as they have been showing values such as solidarity, empathy and respect for minorities in a way that disoriented, albeit positively, the companions. Critical thinking since they were little children helped them also to become smarter than the average.

[@leahcimmmm]

Love the clip. I as a Christian quite understand why some atheists pertain to God as a sort of “man in the sky” caricature. Some do so out of mockery, having the goal to show how supposedly absurd it is to believe in “the man in the sky” and this mockery is what bothers theists. This “man in the sky” idea has always been propagated throughout history, we can even see artwork depicting God literally in the sky, above the clouds. Lots of artwork depict God as having a huge beard as well.

[@salamaabid6923]

Yeah I think the iconography is where that phrase comes from, early Christian missionaries had to market the new religion to the pagan Europeans, most of the European religions had a “Zeus” (Sky father) type God so that’s probably why the big bearded man in the clouds image was used

[@mikea.6121]

This sounds as if Alex is wholly open to the possibility of theism, it just hasn’t happened as of now. That’s surprising, as I thought he was a confirmed atheist.

[@Brickerbrack]

Well, he _is_ a confirmed atheist, in that he sees no reason to believe that a god/gods exist. As I understand it, Alex's standpoint is something like "If God _is_ real, I want to know about it", which seems perfectly sensible, and he's interested enough in philosophy etc., moreso than many of us, that he actively enjoys putting in the legwork to figure out if it's true or not.

[@jonathonwirth7107]

I’d hardly call The God Delusion “embarrassingly poor”.

[@uncoiledfish2561]

Cosmic is still to some level in the cult 😂. He said it’s a constant climb, and that he continues to research…..I don’t research the existence of Santa Claus. It’s not a constant climb out of believing in him, nor is it something I would ever slip back into….He’s still on the fence. There is no magical naked man in the sky watching you!! 🤣 He insults Richards works, claiming he isn’t educated enough on the subject….It’s a cult, and Cosmic fails to see it for what it really is.

[@uncoiledfish2561]

@Emmanuel Araujo Richard has said straight to Cosmic’s face. That’s it’s a useless subject. I put the whole thing in the same category as flat-Earth theory. Not worth anyone’s time. Richards more interested in it’s cult like influence I believe…….

[@uncoiledfish2561]

@Emmanuel Araujo Richard said it was useful in a ‘history of humans’ kind of way. You don’t need to learn about the flying naked man in order to refute it. The same with unicorns etc. They can present evidence and until then. It’s a waste of time.

[@irfanmehmud63]

I also get surprised at the popularity of The God Delusion. I find Dawkins book, "The Blind Watchmaker" more influential in regard to convert someone to atheism as the Darwinian evolution is the major lethal weapon of Richard Dawkins against the theism. The God Delusion certainly lacks logical sharpness by considering only the weak arguments of the opposite camp.

[@Andre_XX]

@@irfanmehmud63 I always thought "the other side" only had weak arguments.

[@buidseach]

I'm not a Theist, but I have my own beliefs !

[@ezekielanderson9055]

How can anyone have enough faith to be an atheist? 🤨

[@godless1014]

I never "became" an atheist in the same sense I never "became" human. I simply am one. I didn't know that what I was even had a label. That having been said, Hitchens and especially Dawkins played a huge part in forming my beliefs.

[@zargle5924]

Everyone is born an atheist. That’s how it works, simply because we are born without beliefs. I don’t get what your point is

[@primeminister1040]

Hitchens and Dawkins advocated for positivism, a philosophical paradigm that has been debunked back in the 80s XD

[@louithrottler]

I think when a country stops teaching the preaching thing in a child's education then we know we'll be moving forward. I'd like to see you discuss that with somebody high up in the school system perhaps along with either or both of these 2 chaps. To me it's a case of 'brainwash them while they are infants" where it should be taught only as an option, and that option belongs to the child - I think it's actually quite an unethical a premise in itself. To go off on an extreme its kind of like how the Hitler Youth were such ferocious fighters, and 'de-nazification' were a thing... they were brainwashed and yet they had no choice due to the position they were in by that time.

[@timsmith2028]

I became a Christian because of hitchens and dawkins! They are converting more people to Christ than some Preachers!

[@jamespawson6045]

I would say you probably wanted to become christian before you read Dawkins and Hitchens. Do you have arguments for all their points? P.s. you can come to any conclusion you want but I’m definitely curious.

[@johnendalk6537]

Hey @CosmicSkeptic write a book. I'd read it.

[@ladyselenafelicitywhite1596]

I never believed in any deities. So I don't have a deconvertion story.

[@jj-son4158]

It's so sad that Alex must dig at the works most influential to his current thinking.

[@johnnyzthegamer4787]

Dude never truly believe that’s why he is an atheist. He did all those things as a kid because he was told to he went with the motions. You can’t go with the motions and call yourself a believer being a believer is not a checklist

[@stechriswillgil3686]

There are so many difficult questions that people of faith bury their heads in the sand over. Take one small bit important facet of the Catholic Church for one moment : it’s creation and veneration of saints. How many times have we heard of ‘ Visions’ of The Virgin Mary that go back centuries and are venerated by the church ? Yet, in recent times, the exact same processes at work hundreds of years ago are now held in skepticism by the Pope. Recent ‘ visions ‘ in Romania and France with pious children or saintly looking teenage girls are no different to those from centuries ago. Yet, the Pope refuses to officially endorse them; remaining silent not debunking them neither but happy for these myths to perpetuate ! It’s clear in an age of technology that these apparitions can now be debunked , which is why the church now distance themselves from them. Yet they still stand by the same type of myths from centuries ago ! It’s this sort of prevarication and mirroring of the secular world which is now a regular feature of the Catholic Church. If it was ok to burn witches 500 yrs ago, then it should still be ok today if the word of God was absolute back then. It’s just that it isn’t longer acceptable to reasonable people to do such things. What will happen when reasonable people no longer accept ANY of the premises in religion ? That’s what is happening in the world wide atheist movement now. Reasonable people cannot be expected to accept the stories written in an old book from millennia ago.

[@Lalakis]

I find it fascinating that people become atheists because of other individuals and not by using their own reason/logic. If you have not developed a sound reason by the time you are 18 to reject faerie tales, the education system has dramatically failed.

[@jimihough6332]

Woah, I’m in total awe, what an intellectual titan you are. You were able to infer that god may not actually exist because we’re unable to prove he exists nor doesn’t?

[@Lalakis]

@@jimihough6332 If you think that you have to be an intellectual titan to disbelieve in faerie tales, I would definitely not want to know what you think an average joe should believe in. Pink unicorns ?

[@JM-us3fr]

For me it was a bit of a slow burn. One illusion at a time got broken down. The last ones were miracles and the supremacy of Christian morality. Boy were those some jokes

[@Lutestick]

Alex you are superior to the ones you have been influenced by. I have huge respect for your methodology though I don't necessarily agree with your conclusions (maybe possibly in the future who knows).

[@mxnolis]

Poorly embarrassing? The God Delusion? Literally how?

[@rachelthompson9324]

I figured out religion's BS long before I read atheists' books which later confirmed what I came to understand myself. Critical thinking and a willingness to face reality headlong is what it takes. Too bad the masses are trained and manipulated to look the other way.

[@JeansiByxan]

It’s too bad his primary information on this issue came from two amateurs instead of professionals. Glad to see he at least admits how poor Dawkins arguments are today from a scholarly perspective.

[@sv8156]

I recommend you read a book called "The Great Controvesy" by Ellen G. White.

[@TimothyNyota]

will it convert me to SDA?

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

And there are those random comments in his videos that say he's about to hit a turning point and go back to being a theist. 🤦🤦🤦

[@ayubnjuguna1800]

If Christianity is false then it's the most absurd world view ... Not worth a minute of discussion. Spending hours to yrs arguing, deciphering it tells me that there is something worth seeking. I reckon Alex says he is searching hoping one day to rediscover his faith. As the Dawkins kind fall on the wayside, I believe like Antony Flew, Alex will one time have a Damascus moment.

[@iemerald7781]

Me personally, it's quite obvious God exists but to each their own 😌

[@MadebyJimbob]

Hawkins and Hitchens have incoherent world views

[@broccolibabe6765]

When did Alex O’Conner get so hot?

[@justanotherhomosapian5101]

OMW😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣 i think it's the beard

[@moesypittounikos]

Listen to how Tyson found God by smoking the DMT toad!

[@geraldbrienza4474]

Hitch would never take BS from that theist like you did.

[@romanski5811]

Why not?

[@michaeltellurian825]

"The Sophistry of Christopher Hitchens" is well worth the time. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKDToGx7bLp0jLM

[@kianaspinall6320]

I can't help seeing the contents and framings of the New Atheist movement and feel it was as much about the racialisation and degrading of Arab and Muslim existence, as it was an atheism. Hitchen's in his later life and especially Dawkins engaged in 'clash of civilisation' framings that are easily identified as orientalist, and therefore racist. Implicit in their atheism was a superior occident, or western Europe. Edward Saïd's book 'Orientalism' is excellent at outlining the intellectual engagement with the racist framings someone like Dawkins, and much of the European canonical knowledge of Islam, has.

[@user-ko9tc1go3h]

Neither Islam nor arab is a race. I don’t know where you’re going with this. Richard Dawkins has criticized all religions, not just Islam.

[@kianaspinall6320]

@@user-ko9tc1go3h Do you know what Orientalism or racialisation is or how they function?

[@wadler00]

If sophistry (hitchens) is only used against sophistry (religious assertions), is it really sophistry and not wry sarcasm, in the same way I am using 'sophistry' as a word to describe hitchens purely as a contextual aide for you due to you linking them. If my making this point was not valid then similarly none of us would be using the word 'atheist' because they do not exist unless religious nonsense first exists, thereby making it sophistry to create a starting point for thought in others.

[@alex5308]

Sad that he’s become an atheist. I hope he returns to the Church and to God.

[@sulas548]

Why?

[@jimmorrison2657]

You are going round the houses a bit here. Just say it's bollocks.

[@coolguy886]

Alex . Please respond to me. I've seen demon, ghost and I've been possessed by it too. Wtf is that?

[@Andre_XX]

What have you been smoking?

[@BriannadaSilva]

I would kindly recommend the book The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan. It may help you with sorting through your experiences.

[@ronaldlindeman6136]

I would recommend a book, "A Guide to Rational Living," by Albert Ellis (1961.) REBT Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy. It can help getting your thinking straight.

[@justanotherhomosapian5101]

Can u tell us more about your experience?

[@coolguy886]

@@Andre_XX I'm not religious man but that experience among others made me thing there's something out there. I've even seen a chair moved by itself I swear . That's why I need Alex's explanation not for you to make fun of me.

[@NickBannan37]

You are definitely going to hell for calling lord Hithens a sophist

[@jjmah7]

I really wanted to like you Alex, it’s just that your anti-Islam rhetoric is a bit much. It’s potentially no less dangerous than Christianity, you almost sound like Sam Harris - and he’s utterly clueless outside of his field.

[@lllULTIMATEMASTERlll]

You know, I have never liked Christopher Hitchens.

[@chigozieagwuncha2166]

He has his detractors

[@Andre_XX]

I watched the full one and a half hours of this. Very disappointing philosophical waffle. Alex should devote his brain to something more substantive, like science.

[@emmawynne7476]

Out of curiosity, what are you "devoting" your brain to? I'm guessing that by "waffle" you mean that you don't understand what they're discussing, which says more about your intellectual capabilities that their's. If you did understand it, then surely you could provide some useful critical analysis of their arguments.

[@Andre_XX]

@@emmawynne7476 There wasn't anything worth commenting on. I devote my brain to science.

[@G_Demolished]

@@emmawynne7476 Looks like you called it.

[@Renato404]

I love how these intelectualls can dismiss the idea of a bearded man in the sky so easily. Who are they to claim that the "actual idea of god" for millions of believers is simply wrong? Is that notion of god somehow falsifiable and nobody told me?

[@Andre_XX]

No atheists are even trying to dismiss a "bearded man in the sky". The onus of proof is on those making the claim there is a "bearded man in the sky", and this is something they have failed spectacularly to do for over 2000 years.

[@Renato404]

@@Andre_XX you are correct. If anyone here is dismissing the idea of the bearded man in the sky, is the "sophisticated theologian", not the atheist. Not only the onus is on theologians to prove that their idea of god is real, the onus is on them to refute those that they reject.

[@emmawynne7476]

The burden of proof is on you, buddy.

[@Renato404]

@@emmawynne7476 sure... theologians are making the active claim that a given image of god is false and the onus to prove that is on... an atheist😂😂 Silent, you are a poet.

[@gabenorman747]

Something doesn't need to be falsifiable.

[@ecehanbalkc6146]

I used to be a hardcore atheist. I think you (Alex) would become agnostic if you would look into people’s near death experiences. There is no god like the god in organized religion. But there could be something else.

[@SNinjaQK]

there is only chaos

[@landis9767]

near death experiences are basically dreams, the last thing your brain makes up before it shuts down. of course to many people who thought they where dying and believed in a god, their final hallucination would be related to their religion

[@coolguy886]

That's all hallucinations. But I'm not saying there is definitely no God. But as of right now there's no evidence. Not even fucking one.

[@Renato404]

He is agnostic... in fact, we all are! That's why it is such a meaningless label

[@ecehanbalkc6146]

@@landis9767 no they are not. They are observed with people having zero brain activity the entire time and people have also been able to report back on conversations in other rooms. which is literally impossible.

[@ronanborja1205]

The most stupid decision he ever made in his life lol

[@SNinjaQK]

how so?

[@coolguy886]

I think he's a lot smarter than you.

[@ronanborja1205]

@@coolguy886 for not believing in God? Stupid lol

[@ronanborja1205]

@Emmanuel Araujo discussions for having no God? Stupid

[@SNinjaQK]

@@ronanborja1205 you probably believe in god blindly