Could A Modern US Carrier Group Prevent The WWII Pearl Harbor Attack? (Naval 44a) | DCS

[@poodlemeister22314]

Have we already done a Pearl Harbor strike force versus a WW2 USN carrier escort?

[@grimreapers]

Yes, looked amazing but was bugged to hell: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKDTg4qBn7eEnKs

[@AmenMoto]

@@grimreapers Way better this time Also those zeros look FANTASTIC in that rising sunlight

[@poodlemeister22314]

@@grimreapers awesome! Bugged or not, it's fun to watch! Onward!

[@Anarchy_420]

@@grimreapers Stealth Squadron's VS Star Destroyer Fleet!👍👍 Stealth Squadron's Center Front Formation, Flying in Two Formations of Five-- Ten F-22 Raptors!! Flying a few miles behind and a Few Thousand feet up-- Two YF-12A's!! Flying underneath The YF-12A's and behind The Raptors-- Five F-117 Nighthawk's, Flying a Few miles behind-- Eight B-2 Spirits, flying in Four Separate Formations of Two!! Right Flank, Fifteen F-35's Flying in Three Formations of Five! Few miles behind-- Ten F-117's flying in Two Formations of Five! And behind in the back-- Four B-2 Spirits flying in formations of Two! Left Flank Mirrors The Right Flank, Exactly The Same with one exception-- The Millennium Falcon with Two X-Wing's and Two Y-Wing's all converging from the Far Left Flank To Help The Stealth Squadron's!! Star Destroyer Fleet-- LOTS of Tie-Fighters, Good amount of Tie-Interceptors, Eight Tie-Hunters, and Four Corvette Raiders!!😁👍👍

[@Anarchy_420]

@@grimreapers I have an idea for a rematch-- include One USS Iowa class Battleship and One LHD Amphibious Assault Ship with Couple Helicopters and the rest loaded with as many F-35's as possible creating room for more F-14's and F-18's on The Nimitz Class Carrier! I believe adding these two ships-- Iowa Class Battleship and Amphibious Assault Ship including the extra aircraft would make a huge difference and its only Two more ships! It'll offer more aircraft bc of the extra F-35's but as seen I'm thinking it's needed ;) Please consider adding these two ships and said aircraft I believe it'd not only make victory possible it'd be freakin EPIC to see!!👍👍

[@Invisible_Socks]

I think in real life, a modern CWIS would swat the zeros and bombs out of the air like flies

[@Endakol]

Dospegy Hadoken!

[@johnreynolds6989]

depends on the A/C speed. CIWS wont shoot at a crossing target.

[@danielmeyer1824]

@@johnreynolds6989 Not true, it just won't automatically ID that target as a hostile. If it is ID'd as hostile; the CIWS will be able to shoot it, so long that it's in the WEZ.

[@flyxan1041]

In real life those Japanese ships would be hit by Harpoons and/or Tomahawks and sunk way before they could launch the Zeros.

[@user-sg6zh6vr7h]

@@flyxan1041 or a 2000 bomb, don't need to kill the ship, just damage the carrier deck and they'd be out of operation. No risk to fighters too with the enormous altitude advantage.

[@ozzy7763]

Harpoon missiles would sink the entire Japanese strike group without them ever knowing what happened.

[@markim5087]

Finally a smart answer , lol could you imagine a group of raptors ,lol or even drones

[@jeffantonson2304]

Imagine if the CBG had a submarine or two as part of the group Japanese might wake up to their fleet sinking for no apparent reason.

[@rtstrong]

"You're already dead." "NANI?!?"

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

They could probably shoot a few of them down, but not enough.

[@josepetersen7112]

Yeah, I’d estimate that 3 harpoon hits would almost certainly knock the CVS out of action for the entire fight. That means that a half dozen hornets would more then neuter the entire Kido Butai here. As for actually sinking the ships, guided bombs are easily the way to go.

[@superflyguy4488]

An absolute basic of combat, irrespective of land, sea or air, and that is to always engane the enemy at the maximum range of your available weapon systems. I see F18 dogfighting when they still have A2A weapons, a big fat FAIL.

[@francescoboselli6033]

@@stinkyfungus Unfortunately we are limited by the IA (more Artificiali then Intelligent) and by some limitations of the mods, like those antiship missile with the range reduce to 1/5. Also seeing the US aircraft carrier continuing to sail in a straight line, even under attack is pretty unrealistic

[@micheal49]

Baron von Richthofen would like a word. Please pick up on the Red Baron courtesy phone.

[@Aikibiker1]

To bad you cannot program in the boom and zoom tactics that the faster US fighters used against the more maneuverable Japanese fighters in WW2.

[@doubleT84]

The AI is annoying. :(

[@KevinD-wn7pd]

This re-enactment was a waste of time because in real life...the pilots wouldnt get into turning battles with the zeros. They would go vertical and easily get away from the zeros. Secondly, i think the sams in real life wouldnt double up as much on planes and would take out more of the planes. This was fun to watch...but highly unrealistic

[@Kathlanus]

"Would it be like this in real life? Yes that's exactly what it would be like in real life." I don't think so. In real life the modern fighters would avoid the merge at all cost. And if it came to it I'm pretty sure they would outclimb the zeros to angels 20 or 25 within seconds, get some distance and reengage. I doubt a zero can do a sustained climb of 15k feet at 45 degrees. Something that is doable for a hornet and tomcat

[@MC-pt8kv]

Not only that, they could probably launch, unload their missiles and return to rearm before the zeroes reach the carrier group.

[@nostalgiadad7137]

not to mention the cwis as they get closer.

[@duggi4]

Exactly boom and zoom

[@tekie1725]

How about those prop planes dropping accurately from 6000 ft and pulling off before the ciws rounds reach them. 😂

[@Dennys854]

Plus the Hawkeye support you would not get so many missiles ganging up on targets.

[@delocon]

Just on my end, please keep doing these Carrier battle tests. They are BY FAR my favorite video series you do. If not, keep doing hypothetical battles because they are crazy interesting. I'd even suggest a collab between Binkov's Battles as well.

[@mattwright1101]

Yes a collab would be so cool

[@grimreapers]

there is going to be a BIG change in DCS regards naval, hence I'm sort of waiting for change, otherwise I'll have to go re-do them all from scratch lol./

[@lightbenderga2017]

Diddo.

[@ricbrown1114]

Problem with this simulation is you left out the E-2 Hawkeyes and Growler refueling planes. In the movie, the E-2's had detected the Japanese fleet and the Japanese fleet had no idea that the Nimitz was even there. Therefore, the strike group would have been able to strike the fleet (at night), refuel and strike again and the Japanese fleet would never knew what hit them.

[@underpaidJanitor5179]

The fighters would be f-35c and f/a-18f/e not f-14s anymore

[@drcruelty]

Well, the non reality portions are what caused the result. The modern carrier group would attack from further away without the WW2 enemy even knowing their location. Heavy BVR attacks, and not turning in if merged, just blow through and use speed, altitude, or both to position to re-attack or go back and re-arm. And sending strike packages with anti ship missiles that can easily flank or even come up from behind with their speed and situational awareness with radar. DCS probably wouldn't model that all accurately, nor will the AI use appropriate tactics to leverage their advantages and basically make it the one sided fight it would be if it really happened.

[@nostalgiadad7137]

not to mention harpoons and tomahawks.

[@BW022]

Agreed. This was silly. A single squadron of F18s would easily carry 108+ missiles even in normal loads. Against a WW2 fighter, they would simply blow up with 90%+ hit rates. No radar, mach 3+ incoming from altitudes they couldn't imagine. After that... they simply make a few vertical passes at 600+ knots using 20mm rotary cannons, radar, and radar sights... they would be hit from miles above probably without seeing them. Unless the US pilots are stupid, the Japanese would never get within range. As soon as the first few dozen Japanese aircraft just blew up (no source) they would all be scattering, dropping bombs and tanks, screaming on the radio, confusion. By 50-100 aircraft gone, no force can accept those kinds of loses let alone without seeing an enemy or (even if they did) seeing someone going two or three times your speed and being out of your range or view within seconds.

[@glitterboy2098]

not to mention the AI's stupidity in things like target allocation, rate of fire, etc. (the real planes could likely line up quite a few AMRAAM and Phoenix shots per plane in a very brief time, against the slower moving Japanese planes at the range the missiles have. especially the F-14's and their Phoenix's, which they can target half a dozen at the same time and volley off all at once. the sidewinders and Sparrows would be slower ROF due to the way they have to be aimed, especially the sparrows and their need to have targets designated) and a real USN airgroup would have been designating targets and using their datanets to coordinate to ensure that there weren't many doubles up shots.

[@robertschumacher2707]

And also wait for dark. At this point in the war, NO Japanese ship had even rudimentary radar.

[@edwinvermeulen8187]

@@robertschumacher2707 You have to take in account that pearl harbor was a sneak attack. Attacking at range, and waiting for dark are nice phrases, but thats just what they are phrases. Reality is that the sneak attack would have overwhelmed even a current carrier group. When doing a sneak attack you are stacking everything so much in your favor, there is NO realistic way to defend against it

[@lohrtom]

That was fun. No way the Map planes would get past the AA mode of the CGs and DDGs 5 inch guns.

[@grimreapers]

5 inchers only anti-surface in game :(

[@Anarchy_420]

@@grimreapers I have an idea for a rematch-- include One USS Iowa class Battleship and One Marines Amphibious Assault Ship with Helicopters and F-35's, creating room for more F-14's and F-18's on The Nimitz Class Carrier! I believe adding these two ships-- Iowa Class Battleship and Amphibious Assault Ship including the extra aircraft would make a huge difference and its only Two more ships! It'll offer more aircraft bc of the extra F-35's but as seen I'm thinking it's needed ;) Please consider adding these two ships and said aircraft I believe it'd not only make victory possible it'd be freakin EPIC to see!!👍👍

[@Anarchy_420]

@@grimreapers lol and plop that Iowa Class Battleship right next to The Nimitz and The Amphibious Assault Ship perhaps in between them acting as a big old bodyguard😁✌

[@whousley]

So you're not so much protecting Pearl or the Nimitz... you're protecting the server from Japanese fighters.

[@SeminarChauffeur]

In reality, all the zeros would see are a group of contrails at a high altitude out of reach circling their carriers, while they get swatted one by one

[@doodoo66]

But if it's a complete surprise would all the jets already be in the sky. Or are we saying that the carrier group came from the future and already knew about the attack.

[@truthseeker9454]

Spoiler Alert! For all you history buffs, at 41:33 we see a previously unknown tactic by a pilot of the Imperial Japanese Navy - Reversing the engine of his ditched Zero, he paddles backward toward the enemy ships in a kamikaze backstroke!

[@jtho8937]

Belkan witchcraft

[@Yata69]

Wish I could say I knew this!

[@jager6863]

No 5" Gun Fire??? In WW2 probably 80% of ship AA kills were with 5" guns firing proximity warheads, Many of the AI planes were shot down with unfired missiles??? The US Aircraft should have fired all their missiles above 33,000 feet, as the Zero can't go higher than that. Also, dive and zoom climb is the only way to fight these prop jobs. Fun to watch, but hardly "real life".

[@grimreapers]

5" in game only fire at surface :(

[@trolleriffic]

Wouldn't the US fleet also be firing Harpoons into the IJN fleet to take their carriers out of the fight?

[@covercalls88]

Modern AA could take out WW2 aircraft way out before they were in range to drop their bombs.

[@covercalls88]

@@trolleriffic I agree, it must be a limit in the AI software as a Harpoon could be fired from over the horizon and the IJN wouldn't even get a shot in.

[@gene4390]

The zeros had an altitude limit. Seems like the jets could of flown high enough out of range and took them down with missiles. Two other issues is the zeros were detecting/dogging missiles fired like they had radar. The zeros were also in some cases zooming past the jets like they were faster.

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

I think the Jet AI's were slowing down to turn tighter, then losing energy, then changing focus on another zero and engaging it from a position of low energy which made it lose even more energy until it had to point its nose up to not stall and it got stuck there.

[@RokkitGrrl]

@@AndrewTubbiolo Can a VTOL really stall if it's still oriented correctly?

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

@@RokkitGrrl On the F-35 the exit nozzle has to swing thru 90 degrees to point down and the lift fan engaged. Then it can only fly in a very restricted way. In the mode it was flying here, it was just a conventional airplane and it can stall in the standard way any airplane can stall.

[@Shadowboost]

How the hell are these Hornets not booming and zooming the shit out of the Zeros

[@gotafarmyet4691]

Limited AI normally you would go High as a Zero would have issues above 20,000 feet the Hornets should be above 30,000 to hurt the zeros

[@ilejovcevski79]

one AI to rule them all.... 70000pds Flanker? Turn and bur baby..... 60000pds Turkey? Turn and burn baby..... 25000pds Viper? Turn and burn baby..... 4000pds Zero? Turn an burn baby...... you get the idea....

[@pogo1140]

@@gotafarmyet4691 If you go to 30,000ft and the Zero's drop to 5,000ft or 1,000, how good is your F/A-18 then?

[@robertdigby4504]

@@pogo1140 well since it carries fire and forget missiles they would have already have moved on to the next target before the first one blows up

[@angelarch5352]

The human pilots also had trouble-- and the humans were cheating with F10 view and infinite respawns.

[@trottheblackdog]

The jets should keep it BVR and SPAAMRAM it until they're dry, then let the SM-2s do the rest of the work. Then recover and launch with anti shipping and sink the fleet.

[@rubiconnn]

When the server is under heavy load is will prioritize calculating and sending unit movement updates versus tactics and pathfinding. That means with lots of aircraft makes the AI dumber.

[@JustLiesNOR]

@@rubiconnn Too bad, because the jets could have just kept their speed and never let the zeroes catch them.

[@jonasbarbery7193]

Disappointed in the representation of the phalanx systems too

[@reccecs4]

Amazing work, very well done. Tactically though focusing on striking the Japanese carriers to neutralize them first off would make more sense than focusing on the air component. The first US aircraft should go high and over the incoming Zeros, and attack the carriers with impunity from above and behind. They can zoom and boom the incoming Zeros from behind on their return after striking the carriers. You don’t have to even come close to sinking them in the first wave of attack, just damage them enough to halt flight operations. Stop the bleeding, then kill the aircraft that did manage to take off, preferably not in a 200 knot furball lol, then finish off the fleet. A damaged leaker zero isn't much of a threat to a modern ship, but the carrier continuing to launch AC is. Fascinating to see it played out this way though where modern AC get stuck in playing to their weaknesses…

[@reccecs4]

You have to wonder what the Japanese pilots would be thinking watching fireballs in front of them out of nowhere… or I guess, wondering what that tiny speck flying towards them was and what all those weird smoke trails were 😂

[@GaryVanderPloeg]

What should've happened is the US strike force sinking the six carriers with air launched harpoons at 0dark30 hours. Why wait for them to launch all their planes etc?

[@threesetstofailure9941]

I would just add that the Phalanx system is actually very succesful usually. Tracking a slow moving Zero should have been a cakewalk Fire Control.

[@noneed4me2n7]

Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned it but there’s an 80s movie called “The Final Countdown” with Kirk Douglas that explores this very idea though with one modern carrier instead of a group. Nevermind heard it mentioned.

[@Mr_Unicorn16]

Pick your own battlefield is an important concept here because the jets have the speed. Getting caught in the turn fight is a death sentence, just boom and zoom

[@artemis8315]

By far and away the most entertaining DCS KZbin Channel. Amazing vids guys

[@grimreapers]

thx

[@jamesburrelljr.8561]

IDK how this video found me but it was DAMN entertaining. You need to be a combat announcer. Your enthusiasm😀 was priceless. Great video

[@mikesbeekeeping1]

Would love to have seen at the end of fight when the US in Pearl Harbour realised they had lost the modern fleet another space time portal opened again and a plane with a hail mary nuke flew in to drop it in the middle of the on coming fleet. Please keep going with these fleet battles, they are awesome to watch.

[@williamampuero2841]

Fun stuff. Thanks GR, really enjoyed the visuals

[@vicedrn]

Beyond what everyone else has already said, I think a big factor here was distance- the USN jets just did not have the time they needed to get to altitude before getting caught in the furball. If the carrier group couldn't attack earlier- if, say, they went through the portal and just ended up there- they'd probably try putting distance between themselves and the IJN. They have a speed advantage in both ships and aircraft, so they could get the distance needed to get their planes to high-altitude and work from there. The other thing I've noticed is the F/A-18 AI seems to have a habit of getting stuck at high AOA and not recovering from it. We've seen it before in this series, maybe there's an issue with the AI?

[@grimreapers]

agree

[@T.K.9]

This is like how a Tiger or Tiger 2 even though they were hard to kill and very deadly and accurate. They lose after getting overwhelmed by more T34s and the shermans. Same for the modern aircraft. If you go dog fight vs zeros that go slower but are more maneuverable you will lose that dog fight. And specially if there are 10 zeros circling around you. Probably of we are in modern aircraft. If practically possible, fire missles from long range, then return to reload. Since air to air missles do have very long range. If possible fire and forget without risking your pilot and your aircraft. Like how say an apache can fire hellfires long ways and the guy that got bomb don't even see or know what fired the missile. Or the long range 145, 200, 300 km range air to air missile. But damn this was fun to watch. The ship to ship fight was really. Nice but with all the shell explosion and water geysers shooting up as the shell hits the ocean will probably crash the server. The flak bubble were also very epic to watch.

[@Simfight]

Boom and zoom. The AI tried to get into a turning fight with a wooden kite.

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

That attack wave was like a Zerg rush. I'm thinking an actual WW2 Japanese attack would not fare quite as well because there would be torpedo bombers which the CIWS _might_ be able to hit (lower altitude). That and the Japanese fleet would be annihilated by Harpoons and Tomahawk ASMs. "Climb up to space and dive down on them". Yep, that's how Phantoms killed slower bandits. If they can turn in your circle, use your superior thrust and the vertical against them. I totally dig the Churchill impression.

[@jakubkopecky9878]

Need to watch The Final Countdown right now! Also this "what if" scheme reminds me one japanese anime called Zipang. It is about modern japanese Aegis destroyer that accidentally time traveled to the year 1942. Recomend it.

[@Justineexy]

If only those Phalanx we're model properly, they could have taken those bombs out with phalanx because you know a Gatling gun shooing at a WW2 bomb would likely destroy the bomb.

[@soupfork2105]

Would a 500lb dumb bomb even show up on radar?

[@Justineexy]

@@soupfork2105 Yes. The land based variant of the phalanx has shot down many mortor rounds so 500pound bombs shouldn't be a problem.

[@soupfork2105]

@@Justineexy Cool, would be better if it did that in-game then!

[@twatts45]

Not to mention in real life they can shoot down missiles. No way would they have that hard of a time hitting a zero

[@ΓρηγόρηςΠανούσης]

@@twatts45 the missiles are flying in a straight line, the zero started maneuvering like crazy whilst still 5000feet from the carrier

[@shaneboushie4737]

Take out the enemy carriers with Harpoons before they can launch all their aircraft. Use the altitude advantage to pick off the zeros.

[@DragonstarFighter]

Yes, this, they keep wanting to do a naval fighter squadron vs the japanese fleet, and not a carrier strike group vs the japanese fleet

[@DragonstarFighter]

and on top of this, in the early to mid 1980s, a carrier strike group, would be able to put 1 bomb in the middle of the Japanese fleet, and destroy the whole thing

[@robertdigby4504]

@@DragonstarFighter yes the Nagasaki affect

[@Wildfire86872]

@@DragonstarFighter Just send in a nuke armed Fishbed masquerading as a Hornet

[@jyralnadreth4442]

Harpoon cannot distinguish between targets....it will lock onto what ever it wants ahead of it. To target the carriers specifically you would need Naval Strike Missile and have its memory loaded with WW2 IJN carriers. (NSM uses Thermal Imaging and has a ship recognition system)

[@rubiconnn]

I love these carrier videos simply for your narration.

[@danj4996]

"if your wondering if this would be like this in real life, yes it would"... WTF are you talking about? Even if we used AI to fight, they would not waste missiles by targeting the same plane multiple times by utilizing data link. They would not get within guns range when they still had missiles on the rails. The jets have the altitude and speed advantage but not the turning, but the jets would know this going in whereas the JIN forces would not have a clue of how to deal with the strange A/C coming at them. At the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, the Japanese pilots had plenty of practice targeting for the shallows of PH but did not that much experience in actual air to air. I realize the carrier is huge but for the JIN pilots to get 100% bomb hits is well, not real. Too many other items to list. Fun experiment though.

[@PrepperStateofMind]

Agreed, this is not anywhere near how it would have turned out. This was pure entertainment at best. I would venture to say not one Japanese pilot would have come that close to a modern fleet regardless of turn radius. Altitude / speed/ let alone the use of AWACS directing the battle.

[@johngraham3649]

Not to mention why would a US fleet drive into striking distance of any surface fleet. That is the reason the Carrier battle group is so effective. Long range strike aircraft would never let the Japanese fleet that close. The carrier would launch and run to the south. Repeat again and again till the enemy has nothing left.

[@phoenixsui]

Someone didnt understand the joke lol.

[@243jimo]

The AI did not fight the Zeros well. The modern fighters should have formed up above the Japanese and made quick attacks on the massed Japanese waves and not entered into a turning fight. Speed is life. They should have made their passes and gone to afterburtner to extend before making another pass. The Americans should have known the location of the Japanese fleet and the time of the attack. They should have struck the carriers before the attack with a max effort Harpoon strike. What about the U.S. attack submarines? They could have sunk the carriers or kept them evasive to prevent them from launching. Also, even if it played out as it did in your simulation, the Japanese ability to strike their target effectively would have been gone. Also, Pearl Harbor might have had time to get their fighters airborne, taking out the remaining planes. Still, it was a fun video to watch.

[@deebee68]

With out a doubt. One modern carrier could’ve eliminated every enemy to include the Russians. There would’ve been nothing any of them could do.

[@saiyanelite0979]

Biggest limitation would be aircraft fuel

[@grisom5863]

@@saiyanelite0979 The second is munitions.

[@ronjones9447]

Spare parts as well

[@DW-xr3wn]

I love watching these but I wish they were more realistic to what the modern navy would do. Fighters at 30k altitude. Not slowing down into the Zero’s envelope, etc. Also, not one anti-ship missle fired form carrying at least 40 harpoons and potentially 60+ tomahawk ASMs. No 5” gun fire at all. Anyone would maximize their strength and exploit their enemies weakness against them. Not blindly give the opponent every advantage.

[@voradfils]

DCS spotting system is really frustrating. Warbirds are incredibly hard to see compared to other planes, especially against the ground. Quite a while ago as a challenge, I went back to Me-262 tactics against warbirds in an F-16 with full wing bags, guns only, no AB, respected 5G limit. It's doable from a maneuvering standpoint but I had to turn labels on to keep track while they were underneath me. You need to treat your opponents almost like fast moving ground targets. In a way, it's even easier because you can fly through the ground without penalty if you stay fast enough! Patience, intelligence, and good marksmanship are still required. The most important thing is to build and maintain vertical separation at all times (they can't get to you + all the turning room you need to take the shot).

[@Marco-bk8yw]

Dude you're really scratching an itch with these videos. SO interesting! Congratulations for coming up with this!

[@grimreapers]

thx

[@Anarchy_420]

I have an idea for a rematch-- include One USS Iowa class Battleship and One LHD Amphibious Assault Ship with Couple Helicopters and the rest loaded with as many F-35's as possible creating room for more F-14's and F-18's on The Nimitz Class Carrier! I believe adding these two ships-- Iowa Class Battleship and Amphibious Assault Ship including the extra aircraft would make a huge difference and its only Two more ships! It'll offer more aircraft bc of the extra F-35's but as seen I'm thinking it's needed ;) Please consider adding these two ships and said aircraft I believe it'd not only make victory possible it'd be freakin EPIC to see!!👍👍

[@strikerarmy1145]

“Just 2 ships” yes one is the modern equivalent to a light aircraft carrier and the other is literally the most advanced battleship of the Second World War that’s about the same as saying little boy and fat man are just two bombs

[@merafirewing6591]

@@strikerarmy1145 one bomb is fat and the other is skinny.

[@thereclaimer2945]

36:27 30:29 40:26 THAT is a sound to be feared!

[@JC622Kilo57J]

Might have been a tad easier than going full-hog all at once to just simulate an attack on the Kido Butai immediately after launch of the first wave, which brings your numbers of airborne IJNS aircraft down to about 183. There was most likely a roughly 30-45 minute gap between launches while the 2nd wave were armed, fueled, and spotted on deck.

[@burkeh123]

This has become my nightly before sleep ritual to watch these videos, my heart genuinely sank when I heard cal say he was going to stop the carrier vids. Please don’t!! Proper hilarious hearing you get all excited JESUS CHRAAASSTTT

[@grimreapers]

Don't worry just waiting for some Naval upgrades from game.

[@burkeh123]

@@grimreapers cannot wait for this to happen guys. :)

[@xenimaging]

I lost it when the zero landed in the water and used it prop as a water propeller to move backwards towards the carrier

[@grimreapers]

yeh that was weird.

[@johnritter225]

Yes. I've heard of aircraft using water injection, but that was a bit much.

[@Thurgosh_OG]

While these carrier videos are fun to watch. In reality the US CV commander would be moving in retrograde to keep the range between the surface vessels open, he'd also likely have all hid lighter vessels forward and flanking the carrier, seeing as how they can see the attacking aircraft on radar, so no need to protect the rear of the fleet. Also the aircraft should not be engaging in gun range but instead flying over the US fleet, firing off missiles till empty to then land a reload. Perhaps load the AI planes with only missiles, no gun pods, to make the stand off more (if that would work on the AIs).

[@steveaustin4600]

this is so fun to watch but so unrealistic to think that zero stood any chance against a modern day fighter

[@hardcharging]

I'd be curious what our actual flight simulators that the military uses would do if they were programmed like that just for a fun training day. I'm not so sure about the zero chance for the zero because of the result of using very slow biplanes against the Bismarck on the other side of the world at the time. The Bismarck's anti aircraft weaponry was designed to keep track of modern planes of the time. They weren't designed to track anything slower than 100 knots and change. That's why the biplanes were able to inflict the damage they did without a single loss on their side.

[@simply2187]

Unrealistic. The carrier CIWS guns can already tear up all the A6M's. And a missle can easily destroy a Japanese carrier.

[@strambino1]

Love the carrier series videos!! Great job reapers, truly valiant going against that many Zeros!

[@michiganengineer8621]

The USS Nimitz ALONE could have prevented the attack. And that was with F-14's aboard, not F-35's. As someone else pointed out, if you stay above 34,000 feet you're above the ceiling for the A6-M and also WELL out of range for the 5" and 1" anti-aircraft fire (31,000 and 18,000 feet respectively).

[@AccessAccess]

Would it be possible for the modern fighters to fly high (30,000 to 40,000 feet) and simply shoot down at the zeros with missles? Rather than trying to engage them at their altitude?

[@he1110gaiz]

they could but they will run out of missiles eventually and the only way is to dogfight

[@he1110gaiz]

and in a real situation im not sure they will be using their missile that much because they are crazy expensive

[@AccessAccess]

@@he1110gaiz It's expensive sure, but remember the Japanese only had so many airmen and while they were among the best (early in the war), they also weren't easy to replace. So the cost of a missile seems well worth it considering the chance of the pilot surviving and being rescued is pretty low. Taking out that many pilots that early in the war.. it could have shifting things prior to the battle of Midway.

[@he1110gaiz]

@@AccessAccess yeah i was leaning more on the side of the missiles running out mid-fight but yeah this looks like a reasonable trade of a hefty budget in exchange for crippling the japanese's combat power

[@grimreapers]

yes

[@bakzetary3145]

Keep up the good work here Cap, great job providing us with "fantasy" entertainment;) With personal experience using the DCS mission editor, I know how much work goes into something like this. Even as a former Naval officer, I can still enjoy this for It's pure entertainment value! But frankly you had me in a uncontrollable LOL moment with your drawn conclusions at the end of your video. Cheers:)

[@grimreapers]

thxxxx

[@o0bananaman0o]

Great video, but what bothers me a lot is the me262 shot down more p51ds in the air per unit than the f35s did in the sim. Somethings not right here

[@madhatman9166]

A10s would have chewed up the zeros. They are slow enough not to overshoot them and can make competitive turns.

[@ATAATX]

Don't understand this. Wouldn't it be prudent for jets to climb above the operational ceiling of the Zeros then attack from above, especially when there are so many Zeros?

[@Kaelland]

Fun fact: The P-38 (the original Lightning) was designed as a high-altitude bomber interceptor. But where it really excelled was as a low-altitude dogfighter. This was discovered in the Pacific theater where it was learned that the P-38 could turn inside of a Zero at low altitude. Coupled with its nose-mounted guns, the quad .50 caliber machineguns along with its 20mm cannon shredded the lightly built Japanese aircraft.

[@covercalls88]

What I think would be interesting is see if the 3 US carriers in the Pacific at the time Yorktown, Enterprise, and Hornet, loaded with F6F Hellcats and F4U Corsairs could do.

[@ohroonoko]

This shouldn’t take an hour and 16 minutes to solve. One air-to-air nuke would take out an entire wave of Japanese aircraft. These were part of the USAF arsenal up to the 80’s. After that, Phalanx CIWS would shred the Japanese planes to ribbons, including probably the torpedoes as they were dropped from planes. Attrition is not an issue.

[@MegaAirsoftman1]

Would love a re-do with working CIWS and Harpoon fire from the destroyers

[@WatchThisA]

Yeah, two things. No modern fighter jet pilot would get into a slow dogfight with a piston plane. It's no wonder they were getting cleaned. They'd run, climb, strafe and repeat. Two, no surface ship would be steaming in a straight line with bombs coming in. They'd be bobbin and weaving. Ever seen WWII fleet battles. Nothing but turns. So this simulation, although interesting, is nowhere near an accurate representation of what would truly happen.

[@AmenMoto]

Why do we lose Cap’s narrative audio when switching away from the map? Then sometimes it comes through, then it’s gone again… weird. Great battle simulation though thanks for running it.

[@grimreapers]

Can you give me a timestamp example please so I can check it out?

[@AmenMoto]

@@grimreapers Greetings! It only seems to be for about the first 5 minutes or so First one I see is at 14:54 Again at 15:02 15:15 (voiceover resumes when map mode is re-entered at 16:43) As I said this only lasts for a short time, eventually we have voiceover for all of the (excellent) battle Thanks for your great channel.

[@AmenMoto]

More at 16:58 17:46 18:30 19:15 Then it seems to even out mostly. Not a show stopper, as once the battle really gets moving everything is fine.

[@John-dp7um]

This is the stuff I would’ve wanted to see as a kid, amazing

[@CombatWombat7.62mm]

Do this again but change tactics of the US forces Fire fox 3s head on first like normal the go High Altitude and then do diving speed attacks with guns zoom and boom

[@papayne]

Just started watching this one. As a former Aegis combat system guy I have to say that I would seriously expect the ships alone to successfully defend this attack. Getting my popcorn 🍿 God save the King!

[@bryanmyers9977]

Well.. if the USN actually went back in time, we'd know exactly where to hit the Kido Butai with an anti ship strike that they could do nothing about. Done. In this scenario it would be better to position the US fleet astride the IJN flight path. Alert Pearl then just thin out the incoming IJN planes as much as possible. In the real attack Pearl did fairly well once they were alerted. Don't risk the super carrier! It's going to be a long war.... 2 flights of Vals, Kates, and Zeros spaced an hour apart would be easier to handle (the real life attack). The Vals and Kates would just hunker together and probably get slaughtered. Also, since the USN knows what's going on they'd launch all 48 Hornets. The IJN wouldn't be facing a few at a time as the Hornets got off the deck. Now for how you had it arranged..... For one.. turn on the US anti ship missiles =) Even if the IJN fleet got all their aircraft in the air and sank the Nimitz, surely the anti ship missiles on all those ships would have obliterated the Kido Butai. On possible tactic when the IJN planes are streaming in like this is to make every missile count by using your air power to thin the IJN planes. Try to shoot down maybe 1/2 or even 1/3 of them rather than every single one. Be a filter and let the SM2s take care of the ones that get through. Dogfighting- obviously slash and dash.. don't try to turn with them LOL. Maintain speed and use vertical. Might be fun to do this again but this time turn on USN anti-ship missiles and have all the GRs spawn above the carrier rather than taking off.

[@trolleriffic]

Could also get a lock on the position and speed of the IJN fleet and relay that to an Ohio class SSBN to blanket them with Tridents.

[@merafirewing6591]

It's more likely the Americans of the 1940s would either shoot at the modern americans or just completely ignore their replies.

[@wazza33racer]

During the 1930's the US Navy ran repeated,large scale fleet exercises simulating an attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. The US was also reading all the Japanese diplomatic cables during negotiations in the 1930's over China and access to oil, which the US negotiators demanded Japan lose one or the other to force them in a corner. The US government knew the attack was coming and wanted it to happen. Commanders at Pearl Harbor were even set up to have their defensive aircraft vulnerable in the open to be easy targets for the japanese attack, and were then scapegoated to take the blame.

[@strikerarmy1145]

Wow first where the fuck do you want to put your planes specifically the defensive fighters other then outside on the airfield refueled and armed ready to immediately take off and fight? In a Hangar? That’s a GREAT idea guess what happens when that hanger gets hit by a bomb? ALL of the planes inside are gone secondly no it wasn’t a big government conspiracy because first before Pearl Harbor it was thought to be impossible to launch plane dropped torpedos in the shallow waters of Pearl Harbor secondly the declaration of war by the Japanese arrived hours AFTER the attack started (yes that is a war crime) and now stop pretending that the US never made mistakes because you did and Pearl Harbor is one of them and just to throw some salt on that wound when the 2.WW started the US where horribly under prepared you didn’t have enough tanks or plane (not even talking about trained crews) since you where busy keeping the British in the war with for example the M3 Lee and your navel air wing? Outdated planes and crews that simply didn’t have the same combat experience that the Japanese had. Yes during the war the US became an absolute powerhouse in the pacific especially after midway with better planes new ships like the North Carolina and Iowa class battleships or the fletsher class destroyers just to name a few but at the beginning the US was simply unprepared and had outdated equipment or had to resort to stopgap measures like again the M3 Lee

[@wazza33racer]

oh the government is benign,always honest, never corrupt or belligerent. Also the TOOTH FAIRY and SANTA CLAUSE are real!!

[@strikerarmy1145]

@@wazza33racer I never said that the government was good or never lied so no clue where you got that from but that doesn’t change the fact that Pearl Harbor was just a well planned attack by the Japanese combined with mistakes made by the navy because again no the US isn’t a all knowing and all seeing godlike being you are a country like any other and that means just like always in war if your enemy is smart he will hit you where it hurts so stop with your bullshit “the government planned it” no they didn’t same with 9.11 by the way because you always do this when someone else hits you you always come up with the most ridiculous theories about how it wasn’t the enemy but your own government

[@ambientlightofdarknesss4245]

Honestly I would LOVE a modern non-carrier fleet against a fleet of ww2 warships! That would be CRAZY!

[@jfbooth170]

I agree but I just wished they was able to use all weapons for the planes of their time...

[@orsonincharge4879]

anti ship missiles BVR , the WW2 group wouldn't get within visual .

[@jimrussell4062]

@@orsonincharge4879 Would that be fun to watch? What would the GR pilots do in the mission?

[@abdelrahmanelshafei7202]

this is one good mission, great work man this is like watching 10 top gun movies all rolled into one

[@wolf06291980]

No way the US pilots try to tangle close with the Zeros. Not a chance. Boom and zoom or go to the flight ceiling and turkey shoot. Also why weren't the cruisers harpoon spamming?

[@jyralnadreth4442]

They would have 16 Harpoons, but the IJN had many more ships and since Harpoon is radar guided it cannot target specific ships and you also risk hitting the same target with multiple Poons :(

[@wolf06291980]

@@jyralnadreth4442 True but not launching anything means you hit nothing. THe only sure way to not do any damage is not to shoot in the first place.

[@cmdrhudson]

TORA! TORA! TORA! that was lots of fun! Thanks for that supprisingly simulation !

[@jimrussell4062]

I think in one way you "won" the mission guys. By expending all their bombs on the US ships, the Japanese never bombed Pearl Harbor. And they lost most of their planes and pilots so the enemy fleet would be out of action for a long time while the US WW 2 fleet would be intact. So.... "mission accomplished?"

[@styloroc2000]

I don't even play DCS, and I've been following this channel since I discovered it 3 months ago -- love the work.

[@D00kerT]

@26:00 I don't think it's got anything to do with how the F-35 was designed, as far as its ability to fight the zero. We're simply seeing an AI issue. The F-35's are not even maneuvering to evade the zeros guns. IRL it wouldn't be close. They'd pull away, circle in behind and take passing gunshots over and over again, shooting down one zero after another. Rinse repeat.

[@covercalls88]

True as it wouldn't take many hits to take down a zero.

[@bradleyd6000]

37:32 No, because IRL a pilot would NEVER engage in a dog fight with that many planes at slow speeds. The AI in this is not realistic at all. They would keep their distance and dive down on top and maintain their speed and the Zeros would never even get shots off.

[@Crunchifyable2]

Interesting. I would think at 550+ super cruise, the modern stealth fighters would just fly past the zeros, in fact so fast I'd have a hard time not over shooting them.

[@jackdaniels7040]

See, the biggest thing for the "modern" aircraft is they aren't gonna turn on a piston engine fighter... They're just too slow. Extending would be the by far they're best tactic. Boom and zoom. It's what they're built for. I know you had no control over ai flyers but I'm just pointing out how much easier it would have been for the Americans

[@infantrymanejb358]

Damn AI. Those jets would be cruising around 30,000. Fire off all their missiles and rtb to reload while the carrier groups sm2's unload. Even if they had to engage with guns they would zoom and boom never be caught.

[@markv4445]

The fact that these guys are completely unaware of the boom and zoom tactics employed by the US Navy since World War II is shameful. Why would you ever get in a dogfight with a Zero?

[@lenn55]

Wouldn't U.S. subs have sunk the CVs long before they got within striking range of Pearl Harbor? lol

[@edwinvermeulen8187]

Japan was doing the sneak attack not the other way around.

[@Timmy4Realz]

KZbin is a bit behind recommending your videos, but glad the algorithm finally got me here, 4th video i watched back to back and now I'm subscribing

[@grimreapers]

lol yeh we FINALLY hit the algorithm after 6 years or so :)

[@markstott6689]

What about boom and zoom from above. Regain height after every hit. The zeroes can't climb as fast.

[@dampsok]

I did that with gun runs with the tomcat... unfortunately the zeros catch the hornet eventually in the vertical.

[@markstott6689]

@@dampsok Not what I expected Damp. I assumed the Hornet had more power. Oh well, live and learn.

[@AmenMoto]

@@dampsok Thanks for this info, I was wondering this as well. Great flying in this sim, Sock.

[@willischang6956]

Haven’t they heard of boom and zoom? The US learned that you can’t turn with a Zero early on so they learned different tactics to counter the Zero’s advantage in a turning fight…they didn’t get into a turning fight…they went in and made slashing attacks booming and zooming away before the Zero could hit them. Or the Thatch Weave, 2 fighters making interweaving flight path covering each other.

[@rupertgaukroger8826]

I have to know where u got those ship models, cap! What a fleet!

[@grimreapers]

Search Grim Reapers WWII ships, got a vid on it.

[@Anarchy_420]

@@grimreapers Request-- First wave-- Flying at One thousand feet-- Twenty Five UH-1H'S VS Twenty Five Mi-8's! Second wave-- Flying a Few miles behind and a Thousand feet above (Two thousand feet)-- Twenty Five AH-64 Apaches VS Twenty Five Mi-24 Hind's! Third wave-- Flying another thousand feet up (Three thousand feet) and a Few miles behind-- Twenty Five F-15's VS Twenty Five SU-33's! Final wave-- Flying at Four Thousand feet and a Few miles behind-- Ten F-22's VS Ten SU-57's!

[@charlielivermanjr8837]

Go high and fast over the zeros, take out the enemy fleet then deal with the zeros? I'm no expert but it might be worth a try.

[@paladamashkin8981]

Cap forget the haters and complaints. This was fricken awesome! Thanks Simba and Damp! For all of you saying I would do this or that, load it up, record it and show us how much better you are

[@grimreapers]

Thanks, spent most of week spare time trying to get this working :)

[@92HazelMocha]

Yeah 10/10, made my morning.

[@donaldtireman]

Zuikaku and Shokaku were the other two IJN carriers that participated in the Pearl Harbor attack

[@Power5]

Those arleigh burkes in the end charging into that hell reminds me of movie battle ship. Lets shoot a couple 5inch at this alien which returns fire with every shell possible. A bit confused how 500 SM2 could not take out 350 zeros though. This was great fun to watch though. Great work on the mission planning. Moral, do not ever consider a final countdown maneuver if you get a time machine on a brand new US Carrier alone, let alone an entire fleet. Now I would like to see a scenario where the US was alert when Pearl started and didnt lose all its assets in the opening minutes. Not with new stuff, with WW2 things. Would be a bit difficult since DCS has no WW2 naval planes. Is there an F4U mod out there? Or F4F maybe.

[@johnedwards3198]

Bogs taking Multi-Role to a whole new level... Jet fighter bomber and now supersonic submarine!

[@jaybockstoce]

I will never get enough of the F-14s taking off from a carrier. Edit: What about doing a Part 2 with the remaining Japanese fleet going in and attacking Pearl Harbor?

[@grimreapers]

agree

[@ingvarsimons7548]

to be honest I don't think that "IRL" Japanese command would send remaining 50 aircrafts to strike Pearl Harbor, considering casualties.. IMHO

[@JoeInTheDark]

lol I love how enthusiastic Damp Sok always is. My man rock on with ya dampness

[@PerSon-xg3zr]

CIWS towers would shit on the japanese forces without breaking a sweat. A6m zeros have huge rcs which basically is just a huge light for the radars of ciws to lock onto.

[@aevangel1]

The Final Countdown!!! I'm all over it

[@steveturner3999]

Why are the Hornets dogfighting on the Zeros terms instead of extending, distancing themselves and then reengaging?

[@angelarch5352]

I don't think there was enough time for this-- the prop planes were swarming the carrier with bombs-- not enough time to shoot them all down one at a time with boom and zoom.

[@reddrascal0124]

Because the ai is bloody terrible!

[@mr2miach]

Been enjoying your older videos and wanted to share something. Back in my days of Command and Conquer Red Alert I would mainly train the lowest troops I could in mass. The only way another player could have a chance at beating me was to do the same strategy. Just wipe out your enemy with pure numbers. Which is exactly what I expected the outcome to be with your video. 353 planes vs. 40ish jets was never going to end well. Was awesome to watch either way. Not to mention I was really pulling for you guys to win. Love me an underdog scenario. Love your videos BTW and been thinking about trying DCS out myself.

[@rnash999]

Carrier air should have gone after the enemy carriers and let the ships defend against air until the carriers were taken out.

[@jimrussell4062]

Meanwhile, the Japanese planes SHOULD have ignored the US carrier and gone for the airfield... and if you lose the airfield you lose. That was that initial mission right? To protect Pearl Harbor?

[@rnash999]

@@jimrussell4062 Those aircraft were all shot down. All of the new spawns went into protect the fleet mode.

[@Gamertheracer]

I love how the f14 did more damage than the f35😂

[@subjectc7505]

DCS is so beautiful 😖 I'm missing out on it's breath taking graphics

[@ohroonoko]

38:40 No, this is not how it would be in real life. If a modern fighter is in trouble, surrounded by Zeros, it just needs to hit afterburners and bug out, or climb to 40,000 feet. Then it can circle back (or dive) at Mach and shoot em down at high speed passes.

[@jlbishop]

I love your work guys but there is no way in heck this is how it would have played out in real life. In real life the US forces would have known where the Japanese forces were for days in advance via AWACS and a strike package loaded up with Harpoons would have taken out all of the carriers before any of the Zero's could have gotten anywhere near the US battlegroup. The scenario you created was totally unrealistic because it assumed the US commanders would sit on their hands for days and let all this happen knowing they would be overwhelmed at the end.

[@covercalls88]

Well, you have to give them a little lead away or the fight would be over in minutes, and would not make a interesting video. .

[@dronevidsandfreedom]

there is no way they would ever be that accurate with the bombs though.

[@catchthewind8563]

What about making the battleships, carriers, and other ships pilotable amd playabe?

[@tescomealdeals4613]

In reality this wouldn't even be close, besides the fact that the Japanese carriers would have been neutralized by anti ship missiles before they could get a plane off the ship, the jets would be able to destroy most of the Zeros is a single barrage, then due to their faster speed, they can keep the distance and continue to fire missiles without even needing to dogfight. Further, prop planes cannot reach altitudes nearly as high as the jets, and the jets would be able to rain hell and steel from above the cursory remaining forces of props. Then even still, not a single prop plane will be able to make it through the ships' defenses, let alone drop their payload, let alone on target. Even an incompetent pilot can easily beat the props.