Could A Russian Carrier Strike Group Stop The WWII Pearl Harbor Attack? (Naval 58) | DCS

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Grim Reapers

Grim Reapers

Күн бұрын

0:00 Overview
2:39 Detail
8:16 Predictions
9:11 FIGHT
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Пікірлер: 213
@aibusatlas2643
@aibusatlas2643 2 жыл бұрын
After lot of days later interesting naval battle! Want more naval videos! Freaking like it
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
Here are some: kzbin.info/aero/PL3kOAM2N1YJdV_JwZaN1yGScRAb_yUTHx
@zsavage1820
@zsavage1820 2 жыл бұрын
@@grimreapers Hey Cap... thought you might like to see this .. if you haven't already.. thought it was pretty interesting ... kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2K5Xp-gma2ClZI
@Anarchy_420
@Anarchy_420 2 жыл бұрын
@@grimreapers I still want to see The U.S. Carrier Fleet VS Russian Carrier Fleet Rematch! They've lost what twice now lol the Navy isn't stupid they lose twice better believe they'll change their tactics, they are being defeated by the Russians bigger guns, therefore they need big guns of their own. Henceforth The Iowa Class Battleship that realistically (COULD) be recommissioned and battle ready and for good measure keep the extra LHA Amphibious Assault Ship you used last time! With these additional TWO Ships should finally get the win, lol not fair too bad because The U.S. Navy has the means$$$ to get it done and that's my argument lol they'd definitely change tactics after losing TWICE! Plus They have the ability to do so!😁👍🙏
@willwozniak2826
@willwozniak2826 2 жыл бұрын
@@Anarchy_420 The Russians always had a lot of anti-ship missiles. I would like to see another myself since the US Carrier Group bugs were fixed.
@Anarchy_420
@Anarchy_420 2 жыл бұрын
@@willwozniak2826 understood lol and The U.S. simply has more Ships ;)
@andrewt.ferrone9166
@andrewt.ferrone9166 2 жыл бұрын
Could US forces at Pearl Harbor defend itself better if they were ready for the attack?
@reecedean518
@reecedean518 2 жыл бұрын
Now that’s a decent video idea.
@navb0tactual
@navb0tactual 2 жыл бұрын
THIS
@angelarch5352
@angelarch5352 2 жыл бұрын
So amazing!!! I think it was the ship missile strike that took out most of the AAA to clear the way for the strike planes-- that did it. None of the other attempts had such a anti-ship missile alpha strike. Very interesting. After the IJN picket line was taken out, the planes could bomb them with near impunity, and still the anti-ship missiles were trickling in.
@jkasiron2275
@jkasiron2275 2 жыл бұрын
That was awesome! I can see why the Russians didn't feel like they needed a really big air wing.
@cannedparty3863
@cannedparty3863 2 жыл бұрын
I'm really looking forward to the midway battles, those sound like they'll be really fun and interesting
@lauriea2971
@lauriea2971 2 жыл бұрын
Well all those sexy Grime pilots did a great job on this episode. The Russian ships turned all the Japanese fleet into subs. Keep it up guys
@BobH809
@BobH809 2 жыл бұрын
This was awesome to watch. Makes you wonder at Russia's decision to choose all those powerful missiles over what the US use. That Flanker is like a missile/bomb truck too.
@mystyle_jm8997
@mystyle_jm8997 2 жыл бұрын
Beware that Admiral Kuznetsov-class Carrier is no ordinary Aircraft Carrier, it was called the Aircraft-carrying Cruiser, meaning that Ship has a Naval Air Wings along with VLS Missile Cells, heavily armed to the teeth.
@HAL_9001
@HAL_9001 2 жыл бұрын
As soon as I saw the front line I knew the answer. If you were ever to revisit this, it would have to be, "Could a Single Pyotr Velikiy / Kirov Stop the WWII Pearl Harbor Attack?"
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
we'll put him at Midway.
@TheBillzilla
@TheBillzilla 2 жыл бұрын
I like how the destroyers turn into submarines.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
Dive dive!
@Wildfire86872
@Wildfire86872 2 жыл бұрын
I might have tried seeing just how far those fighter zeros would've followed me, and pulled them into the SAM net of the ships.
@jkasiron2275
@jkasiron2275 2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same after seeing it done in a previous video. This appeared to be decisively a ship vs. ship scenario, I don't know if more than a third of the Flankers available were even used. So cool.
@cjdaykin1000
@cjdaykin1000 2 жыл бұрын
Not going to lie but 27:41 had me in stitches for a good 10 minutes, brilliant!
@charlietheunicorn5383
@charlietheunicorn5383 2 жыл бұрын
Sneaky and Simba provided excellent entertainment. Each had 30-50 aircraft chasing them, making for some awesome widescreen shots. Truly incredible. GG.
@Psychobolic77
@Psychobolic77 2 жыл бұрын
I loved the massive herds of zeroes chasing the flankers. Anyone up for some fox and geese? You might have designated one guy to draw the swarm away from the fleet and keep them busy for as long as possible, staying too high and fast to hit, but close enough to keep them interested. After all, it is just stupid AI.
@jkasiron2275
@jkasiron2275 2 жыл бұрын
It was great to meet more of the Reapers in action! You guys are a lot of fun to watch as you do what you do. Good luck with Midway, I'm interested to see how the integration of strike group tactics affects the results. May the server gods be with you!
@chazeverlastt9905
@chazeverlastt9905 2 жыл бұрын
That was one of my most favorite ones.. incredibly entertaining and the Crazy Ivan.... Fire everything at once Tactic was so devastating !!
@Cavedweller001
@Cavedweller001 2 жыл бұрын
That was absolutely amazing! I used to play a few of the cold war sub simulators way back when but they never showed the power of the Russian ships against a surface fleet. If Brute Force can't do the job you're just not using enough seems to be a winning strategy.
@ps45mitschnitte83
@ps45mitschnitte83 2 жыл бұрын
If I would still own a PC, I would definetly give DCS a go. But after about 10 years playing only on console, I probably won't be going back. Still love to watch these naval battles from you guys! You are awesome! ;-)
@markstott6689
@markstott6689 2 жыл бұрын
Dear Cap: Mitsubishi A6M Zero service ceiling 33,000 feet (10,000 metres) Supermarine Spitfire service ceiling varied by model. Mk1a - 34,400 feet (10,485 metres) MkXIV - 43,000 feet (13,560 metres).
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
thx!
@subjectc7505
@subjectc7505 2 жыл бұрын
I love the Russian battle cruiser 😆they look so beefy
@DelaV3
@DelaV3 2 жыл бұрын
This didn’t age well.
@jaycentoret2866
@jaycentoret2866 8 ай бұрын
thats not the slava class@@DelaV3
@InfraredSpace
@InfraredSpace 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Cap, for doing my requested video. Keep rocking and stay safe and healthy ❤️. Hope you will get well soon 🙂
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
:)
@johnvoytko2424
@johnvoytko2424 2 жыл бұрын
That was just nasty. Good to hear you start sounding like yourself cap! Good job guy!
@kenhelmers2603
@kenhelmers2603 2 жыл бұрын
SO much happening :) Great job Cap!
@mrlodwick
@mrlodwick 2 жыл бұрын
Yes love this Bro-Thank you!
@Doubledeepfried
@Doubledeepfried 2 жыл бұрын
Doing some casual World of Warships, and bought a F15 on DSC. searching for a tutorial or something for a F15, but now binchwatching this channel and really exited how stuff pans out !
@zebracheetah7625
@zebracheetah7625 2 жыл бұрын
it very funny to see like 20 WW2 planes chasing a flanker
@stevesklar8334
@stevesklar8334 2 жыл бұрын
at 16:20 you had two carriers go through each other. LOL
@christophero55
@christophero55 2 жыл бұрын
Midway. Super cool, looking forward to it.
@mareksamel5334
@mareksamel5334 2 жыл бұрын
No one survive a telegraph pole ! - quote of the year 😀😀😀
@speeddemon2262
@speeddemon2262 2 жыл бұрын
Great work.
@Slikx666
@Slikx666 2 жыл бұрын
Nice amount of boom! 😀👍
@strambino1
@strambino1 2 жыл бұрын
That was awesome! If the axis battle ship fleet is still working you should try the Russian carrier group against it!
@TheLastPhoen1x
@TheLastPhoen1x 2 жыл бұрын
Red Fleet also had several Kiev-class carriers but they all are either scrapped or turned into theme parks in China.
@MikoyanGurevichMiG21
@MikoyanGurevichMiG21 2 жыл бұрын
One such "theme park ship" turned out to be China's first aircraft carrier, Liaoning.
@TheDemolitionKings
@TheDemolitionKings 2 жыл бұрын
Taking the cruiser and destroyer screen out before the SU’s came in was exactly the right thing to do. It eliminated a big portion of their air defense and gave the aircraft a chance to get hits on the carriers. That said. It would’ve been over the top cool to throw a squadron of Hellcats (or even Mig 15’s if we have to go Russian) in to plow through the Zeros.
@ldreese33
@ldreese33 2 жыл бұрын
This is the first video I have watched. Pretty funny and cool.
@Allirys
@Allirys 2 жыл бұрын
Best live thumbnail ever. More, please.
@Opter_X
@Opter_X 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing work of Russian ships with anti-ship missiles)))) Good work of guys with C-25-s. Poor work with bombs. Guys need more practice bombing (imho) - it's not like bombing with Maverics))) Here you have to be more precise. ;) Anyways - that's a great mission and it was fun to watch it. Thanks, Dudes!
@PrepperStateofMind
@PrepperStateofMind 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent
@timblack6422
@timblack6422 2 жыл бұрын
Outstanding!
@thisismossop
@thisismossop 2 жыл бұрын
I should go to bed, thankfully I only have to commute to the spare room in the morning.
@TRPilot06YT
@TRPilot06YT 2 жыл бұрын
Gmt+2 lets goo
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
Bed is for nerds.
@pahtar7189
@pahtar7189 2 жыл бұрын
Winston Churchill said, "Armies prepare to fight their last war," and it applies to navies as well. The 1980s Soviet navy was custom built to destroy the 1950s US Navy.
@dshupac
@dshupac 2 жыл бұрын
Am glad hearing you getting better. Hope it will be faster than you expect. My magic rays are making you better as you sit there . Missing your abnoctios yelling. Hot kisses and hugs. Bleat.
@khatharos
@khatharos 2 жыл бұрын
By Ancient Japan Law a pilot who manages to take out Su33 while flying Zero become new emperor of Japan.
@therealkillerb7643
@therealkillerb7643 2 жыл бұрын
Nice!
@warbuzzard7167
@warbuzzard7167 2 жыл бұрын
Cheeky comment of the day: "Too bad you can't simulate the tugs required to haul the Kusnetsov to the battle space... and the firefighting ships to put it out when it burns up spontaneously." ;-)
@andrewsmall6834
@andrewsmall6834 2 жыл бұрын
Can you do a video of how would a Chinese carrier group stand up if it decided to go after Australia? So how would the fleet stand up against the Australian air force and navy? The PL15s should lose their advantage against the F35As. Australia would also make it interesting with our AIM120D's and AGM-158 JASSM's, we would obviously have plenty of time to prepare with our 3 over the horizon radar networks spotting them from over 1000km away.
@claudiodiaz9752
@claudiodiaz9752 2 жыл бұрын
They got in trouble before doing china stuff.
@AB-ye6cl
@AB-ye6cl 2 жыл бұрын
I'd like this scenario too , where do you think they would attack? A few things make doubt or ability to defend against a carrier Group 1. If we didn't spot mh170 I dunno if we spot a carrier Group 2. I have heard from ADF commanders somewhere that we only have the capability to attack supply lines.
@bestestusername
@bestestusername 2 жыл бұрын
We aussies would get smashed, country is to big to defend alone
@angelarch5352
@angelarch5352 2 жыл бұрын
Definitely want to see this!
@angelarch5352
@angelarch5352 2 жыл бұрын
@@claudiodiaz9752 Oh nos-- better not try that or might make the censorship angry. So wargames against any other country is OK, but not China? FT
@hansmiseur3025
@hansmiseur3025 2 жыл бұрын
Hold on, 1400 kiloton nuke? That's 1.4 megatons if I'm not mistaking? That's not a small nuke at all, that's a strategic nuke, a small citydestoyer maybe.
@rubiconnn
@rubiconnn 2 жыл бұрын
I think he meant 1,400 tons, not 1,400 kilotons. The R28 nuke has a programmable yield of between 1-10 kilotons. I assume ED set it to about 1 kiloton so that it could be actually useable.
@rubiconnn
@rubiconnn 2 жыл бұрын
@Drew Smith The Mig21 has a nuke.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
14kt
@archienov
@archienov 2 жыл бұрын
Was rewatching some of the older Grim Reapers videos and now I want to see the Russian carrier group take on the WW2 battleship fleet. Maybe with all those anti-ship missiles they carry, they can finally be beaten.
@ferdigrundling776
@ferdigrundling776 2 жыл бұрын
Big difference between the US strike group and the Russian strike group. It's seems like the Russian acted very quickly with anti ship missiles and get the job done much quicker
@Battlestargroup
@Battlestargroup 2 жыл бұрын
Would love to see you use some older US tech this time. Maybe Vietnam era jets like Phantom and Intruder. Or could use some newer tech like early Vipers and Harriers or even the Corsair II. OR!! How about the new British fleet with KGV and QE with one additional ship to take the spot of the Yorktown? Just ideas to add to the pot.
@lohrtom
@lohrtom 2 жыл бұрын
I love these scenarios
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
Planes + ships + boom boom. All that's missing is a beer?
@timharkins754
@timharkins754 Жыл бұрын
INS Vikramaditya was a Kiev class carrier as well. She was sold to Indai by Russia and the Liao Niang(?) was bought from Russia as well, Kuznetsov class.
@harbrick29
@harbrick29 2 жыл бұрын
Midway, i can't wait!!!! Go GR!!!!
@Anarchy_420
@Anarchy_420 2 жыл бұрын
You added The Submarines back!?
@childrenoftolkien
@childrenoftolkien 2 жыл бұрын
Can you do "Can the Spanish Armada Stop Pearl Harbor Attack"?
@rollyherrera623
@rollyherrera623 2 жыл бұрын
Nice one! Imagine Russians today???Scary...
@Horesmi
@Horesmi 2 жыл бұрын
"The Russians don't have a good chance, their planes are old and there are less of them". The Russians: *KIROV REPORTING*
@robertvantine2810
@robertvantine2810 2 жыл бұрын
I am wondering at the end, if he just kept flying and forcing them to use up their fuel, would the Japanese pilots try to ditch or would they just fall out of the sky when they run out of gas? Then he could just attack whatever is left with impunity.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
They just ditch.
@ETRTriad
@ETRTriad 2 жыл бұрын
Haha yes, nice combo👊❤
@luxordeathbed
@luxordeathbed 2 жыл бұрын
The difference in doctrine from Russian to USA is starkly different. Just a hammer.
@johnzengerle7576
@johnzengerle7576 2 жыл бұрын
Great I joined Patreon
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
thxxx
@tate_g
@tate_g 2 жыл бұрын
Revenge for the Baltic Fleet presumably?
@Wolfen443
@Wolfen443 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, too bad they did not add WWII actual Russian Ships too to the Russian fleet.
@richardm3023
@richardm3023 2 жыл бұрын
You forgot the tug boats to tow the Russian aircraft carrier into the fight.
@HebrewHammerArmsCo
@HebrewHammerArmsCo 2 жыл бұрын
You know we need a remake of The Final Countdown...... But with the Russian Navy....
@amclips2995
@amclips2995 2 жыл бұрын
Idea.. Many times during the cold war, the Swedish airforce AJ37 Viggen tried intercepting the SR-71 over the Baltic. Could they have? They tried later with the JAS39..
@patmcbride9853
@patmcbride9853 2 жыл бұрын
Fancy maneuver where one carrier went right through another one.
@samanazimi5087
@samanazimi5087 2 жыл бұрын
Remember that winwing technology is your ultimate hardware solution :) 14
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
nice
@kennethheres5643
@kennethheres5643 2 жыл бұрын
Yamato vs Kirov next pls... :)
@roribeedm
@roribeedm 2 жыл бұрын
Between the IJN's lack of radar (no radar on their ships until 1943) and their naval doctrine that required all aircraft on the hangar decks to be fueled and armed at all times, even 1 1000lb bomb to the flight deck would set off a fatal chain reaction of explosions and fires that resulted in the deaths of their carriers. Any kind of modern anti-ship missile fired from over the horizon the IJN wouldn't even know it was coming, aircraft flying low (100 ft) could get within 12 miles before being spotted easily at which point climbing out of flak range then bombing becomes easy. The only way the Japanese would even know they were about to be attacked would be smoke plumes, so the US carrier group would have had an advantage over this one. Also, the S-25 would easily penetrate the wooden flight deck and detonate in the hangar resulting in a chain reaction of explosions that would destroy the flight deck. Meaning a single one of those rockets would have neutralized the carriers. Either way though, the result would be the same. The IJN wouldn't stand a chance against modern weapon systems. If the IJN was ambushed before they started launching their fighters, they wouldn't even be able to put up a token resistance.
@artonline01
@artonline01 2 жыл бұрын
Its so hard to decide what is a more sexy aircraft the flankers or f 15s
@WhiskeyTango84
@WhiskeyTango84 2 жыл бұрын
Cap have you watched the F-4 teaser yet??? I figured you would get wetter than an otters pocket watching it. I know I was.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
Yup looks fab :)
@matthewbrittaib5537
@matthewbrittaib5537 2 жыл бұрын
The f35 intercepting the u2 spy plane would be good, and se what a F35 actually tops out at
@michaelmcternan4997
@michaelmcternan4997 2 жыл бұрын
Lead a group of zeros through that flack
@devvytm
@devvytm 2 жыл бұрын
Can we just take a time to appreciate those Zero fighters. The fact that they were (given the situation) able to even give chase is truly an accomplishment. At one point, one even managed to get behind one of the jets and hit it.
@campia901
@campia901 2 жыл бұрын
Cap. Valued viewer request. Can you do a GR voice competition. A small sample of all GR voices then we can vote?
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting...
@joshberry4813
@joshberry4813 2 жыл бұрын
Have you ever done a modern carrier group hit with no fighters against the Pearl Harbor attack? The long range guns from the WW2 battleships would be brutal
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
cool
@joshberry4813
@joshberry4813 2 жыл бұрын
Just realized this is a flight simulator and not a ship simulator… love the channel can’t get enough. Thanks Cap
@mmccarthy9458
@mmccarthy9458 2 жыл бұрын
The Russian CVBG has 3 heavyweight ASuW ships: 1 Kirov BCGN with 16 to 20 Shipwrecks and 2 Slava CG with 16 Sandbox missiles. The Japanese Carriers have no defences against these kind of missiles. So its really a matter of getting KA-25 B Surface search radars to paint the Japanese CVs and then allocated 48 Anti-ship cruise missiles against 6 Carriers, 8X6. 2 to 3 per carrier should be more than enough.
@Fr05t3k
@Fr05t3k 2 жыл бұрын
Why the p700 were hitting the water? Also p700 use data link and not more than 3 missiles should hit one target. I'd say initial strike made it so much easier for fighter to work, due to massive reduction of flak that pilots were getting.
@jbhubbz2954
@jbhubbz2954 2 жыл бұрын
Can you do the entire japanese imperial fleet vs russian carrier strike group
@TheBdesignz
@TheBdesignz 2 жыл бұрын
Could you do the 2018 missile strike against Syria? Might be a good reenactment
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/faTUeK2vbNaon6c
@voradfils
@voradfils 2 жыл бұрын
I'm actually writing and posting this during the overview section and predict that the almost infinite naval Tor-missiles will keep the zeroes at bay. Russians did well to listen to Stalin. One thing these war games have shown is that quantity does indeed have a quality of its own. If the sandboxes etc. work, Russians will win.
@chemicalbreath
@chemicalbreath 2 жыл бұрын
I wander if you lead the planes back to the picket line how many would get shoot down,
@blakeparry1983
@blakeparry1983 2 жыл бұрын
makes complete sense in real life the missles wouldnt have been in one huge wave either and wouldnt have even needed to launch the aircraft.
@timharkins754
@timharkins754 Жыл бұрын
The Liao Nang(?) was a soviet carrier.
@ShawnF0912
@ShawnF0912 2 жыл бұрын
Nice sound effects from commentator 😂
@stevensaczawa183
@stevensaczawa183 2 жыл бұрын
A virtual payback for Tsushima
@thomasohanlon1060
@thomasohanlon1060 2 жыл бұрын
So your not going to use the Russian Frogfoot Sukhoi SU-25 the Russian comparison of the A-10.
@justaperson1619
@justaperson1619 2 жыл бұрын
That’s because Su-25 is not Carrier based
@edwardchong7212
@edwardchong7212 2 жыл бұрын
Just deploy a Typhoon-class SSBN next to the Japanese homeland and remind them to think twice.
@Saratogan
@Saratogan 2 жыл бұрын
Never mind aircraft. Just lots of modern SAMs at Pearl Harbor picking off the Zeros way off.
@jaycurtis7093
@jaycurtis7093 2 жыл бұрын
Het Cap, are you from Gloucester by chance? :)
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
neg
@jaycurtis7093
@jaycurtis7093 2 жыл бұрын
@@grimreapers Yeah, you have nowhere near a West Country accent, but most Brits will move around and lose their native accent....yours is a bit muddled...so I'll just call it estuary with a twist here and there when you get excited. Not trying to offend you, the accents are getting harder and harder to nail down anymore. I used to coach accents many years ago, and I'm sooo glad I do not do it anymore. Anyways Cap, thank you for the uploads, love the content...sorry if this came off as weird. Right, carry on mate.
@BCSchmerker
@BCSchmerker 2 жыл бұрын
+GrimReapersAtomic *Thanks for a "rematch" scenario between the Greater Japanese Empire and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.* We know about the Imperial Russian Pacific Fleet's rout in the Russo-Japanese War of 1905, which predated the October Revolution by a decade. The Pacific Fleet demised to the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, who split the necessary massive upgrade program into (manageable?) five-year increments, upon the 1917 Revolution; the five-year planning was followed up as necessary by the later all-Union Party.
@onlymeok
@onlymeok 2 жыл бұрын
Big red target on that carrier.
@joejoemyo
@joejoemyo 2 жыл бұрын
Missiles go brrrrr
@draigygoch
@draigygoch 2 жыл бұрын
' lot's of lovely luscious japanese men crawling over you '.....not something you hear everyday...
@jkasiron2275
@jkasiron2275 2 жыл бұрын
lol, I'm not convinced Cap isn't ex-navy.
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
lols
@gerardpullen9449
@gerardpullen9449 2 жыл бұрын
Would the EO Alamos have worked better than the fox 1s?
@TheDgdimick
@TheDgdimick 2 жыл бұрын
Next one should be Japanese against Japanese. Not sure if you can do it.. Or maybe WW2 US against the Japanese. IIRC you haven't done this.
@vietnam-russiamilitarymoti1860
@vietnam-russiamilitarymoti1860 2 жыл бұрын
Hey , let see how the Chinese performing next
@TRPilot06YT
@TRPilot06YT 2 жыл бұрын
Its 02.56 and i have to wake up around 06.30 i think i have time
@grimreapers
@grimreapers 2 жыл бұрын
lol x
@TRPilot06YT
@TRPilot06YT 2 жыл бұрын
@@grimreapers It was worth it
@tiadiad
@tiadiad 2 жыл бұрын
Spherical drones. The future.
@an_asian_guy
@an_asian_guy 2 жыл бұрын
The final countdown russian edition
@kolinskiparadox
@kolinskiparadox 2 жыл бұрын
Damn, slava class got me laughing soo hard. idk why because I know this class but still.
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