Could Elden Ring's Erdtree Actually Exist?

In between getting one-shotted by OP bosses, I wondered whether or not the fantastical Erdtree could really get that big. So I spoke to the only exoplanet tree expert in the world...
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[@gabionsquared7858]

No one tell him he just spent 10 minutes doing gravity calculations for a game with gravity magic in it

[@iPownYouN00B]

the video is about if the trees of that size could exist. on earth. he said that in first 2 min

[@elementoflight6834]

Or the fact that the Erdtree is just a form of the Elden Ring projects and no Tree at all. Just a bunch of Runes in the form of a tree. (thats why only the Rune of death can truly burn it down)

[@josephsheehan6079]

@@elementoflight6834 not quite the Erdtree predates the Elden Ring in the form of the primordial crucible. The Erdtree was then inhabited by the Greater Will’s Elden beast.

[@a.k47-74]

@@iPownYouN00B It was a joke. 😆

[@bigfatminer5590]

@@iPownYouN00B you seem fun

[@robjohnson3095]

There are floating rocks in Elden Ring, so if the tree incorporates that anti-grav mineral, well, anything is possible?

[@drftr6073]

considering the fact that the source of the golden order is a primordial outer god, and that outer space is very neatly tied to gravity magic in regards to worldbuilding, it isn't impossible. Although, gravity magic is color coded exclusively to be purple in the game, so it's rather unlikely.

[@whatthewhatthe9117]

One of the bosses general rahdan literally keeps stars in place with gravity magic and that’s your question? Fair enough

[@drftr6073]

@@whatthewhatthe9117 it's not a matter of could it, it's a matter of would it.

[@LeBellmont]

@@drftr6073 Spoilers ahead: There is an area and fight that literally is outside of Time in this universe. A lot of stuff can happen. That being said, the Erd Tree takes root deep deep underground to a level where you can fight Astel the Naturalborn--geographically. it's in a different area, however, but the fact someone of Empyrean lineage can learn and use magic hints at something. it is more likely than you think. Not to mention the young and minor Erdtrees that can sprout wherever it so pleases. Although, Gravity and other sorcery is under the umbrella where people learned these abilities, so it may be that it is of a different nature to the erdtree entirely... but this doesn't explain the weird end game boss flying about. I have not structured this whatsoever, but it's food for thought.

[@Denny_Boi]

True. But he explicitly postulates the existence of the Erdtree in our universe, on Earth.

[@arantisdavis1623]

For what it's worth, Zullie the witch did a video using the in-game measurement system that uses meters for the height and the Erdtree from base to top branch is 5048 meters

[@johandori7795]

Thank you, Thank you for making this comment, and it getting so close to the top. I thought I was going to have to.

[@KhaosDCrab]

The erdtree as seen from the capital is 4.5km tall, and including the roots is about 5.5km, using the actual in game tree model, theres a new short video on this by ZulieTheWitch

[@genericinternetperson]

Yeah, 500 meters is more like the width of the trunk lol.

[@Felahliir]

@Boa-Noah He's not assuming that, he's just showing how low the gravity has to be for such a big tree to be possible

[@dreugh424]

​@Boa-Noah Well it's 1% of Earth's mass and a third of the size, so like he said, we don't know if it'll be practical for an Elder Ring-type setting... It makes sense to me that there be some connection between planetary mass relative to size and its ability to sustain life

[@RanEncounter]

@@Felahliir Without gravity magic, that exists in the game.

[@Felahliir]

@Boa-Noah that's to show how extreme such planets are, to show how improbable such a tree is

[@LunarDelta]

I think 500 meters is a severe underestimation. When you get to the Mountain tops of the Giants, you're at or slightly above the level of distant cumulus congestus clouds, but it's obvious that the Erdtree is still massively higher than even that. It's got to be several kilometers tall, *at least* .

[@joonapukarinen1153]

The erdtree seems sorta illusory, I think? Like it's always above us when we look at it, which kinda makes sense since it's basically the greater will's show of dominance. So I think it's always going to be higher when you look at it

[@LunarDelta]

@@joonapukarinen1153 I don't think it's an illusion though. It has mass and takes up space; you can touch it and even go inside it; it's combustible and drops real leaves that you can see on the ground. It even casts off seeds that grow into other real trees that you can visit, touch and receive boons from. I think the reason it seems like it's always above you is because it *is* always above you, because it's seriously tall.

[@user-yp6yr9te7l]

It does feel like kilometres tall. I mean a whole city is wrapped around it and it dwarfs the city.

[@Aldoz]

I’ve been to Burj Al Khalifa, and it feels comparable in height, but obviously it’s way more massive than a building usually is so it’s really hard to tell exactly how tall it actually is. When you’re at the top of the building it feels like you’re looking down from a plane, everything looks flat, and the game doesn’t really simulate this very well

[@user-yp6yr9te7l]

@@Aldoz Burj Al Khalifa lies in a plain. Lands Between are more varied in elevation. Though the game is more surreal than real, the tree is meant to be a bit of an illusion

[@scyberclops]

There was a recent discovery made where they learned that coastal redwoods actually take in moisture through their leaves and that’s how they can get so tall. They evolved because there’s so much fog where they are. coastal redwoods have evolved the ability to absorb water directly through their leaves. With that in mind, wouldn’t that allow your tree to get much taller where you would only base its ability to grow on the structure beneath?

[@semi-useful5178]

Small detail, too, the Lands Between are referred to as Mist-Shrouded several times.

[@SJNaka101]

@@semi-useful5178 i think mist shrouded refers to the mist surrounding the lands between. "In our home, across the fog, the lands between" My impression is that there are two or more continents beyond the fog, with fog covering the entire sea. And the lands between, well, is between them.

[@bigcazza5260]

all plants take in some amount of water via the leaves (not much tho) thats why foliar sprays work (powerfeed, neem oil etc)

[@coreyhead5777]

This is why redwood trees are thriving in Great Britain where they’ve been introduced. A lot of rain and fog in the isle of bad teeth

[@Sucellusification]

It could feed on the clouds above, being so tall

[@YamiYaiba]

I'm honestly a little disappointed that, when you talked about equations making sense in real life, you didn't look at the structural integrity of a tree/wood to see if it would be crushed under its own weight by a certain height.

[@deheavon6670]

I've estimated that once! Tree bark, as long as it is reasonably healthy, can sustain the weight of more than 3,000 meters of itself. Surprisingly, legos can too.

[@Boris82]

Oh, you expected real science.

[@daverhoden445]

@@deheavon6670 Conclusion: Trees are made from legos! :D

[@the_furry_inside_your_walls639]

I think we should also figure out what the gravity of the world of Elden Ring may be, which could be done by figuring out what the speed is at which we fall in the game. My hypothesis is that the world of Elden Ring is some-what smaller than Earth, since falling in Elden Ring is a bit floaty and slow.

[@jaytonjennings3589]

Its thickness should support it esspecially since its also sorta made by freakin gods

[@Darkhartx1]

Did a man of science really say that it's unfair for a dragon to one shot you when by the very laws of physics a dragon should only one shot you?

[@troodon9577]

Yes. Yes he did.

[@armorheadallan]

I love the idea of Kyle playing the game, then getting so mad that he started to think about the science of the Erdtree to calm himself.

[@BigBoss-sm9xj]

Lol

[@damonf4340]

I mean, is that not what everyone does?

[@Unsensitive]

@@damonf4340 I was busy waiting for the reviews, and watching some gameplay, so I could avoid this frustration. I'll wait for a mod to fix all the issues, then maybe consider buying it..

[@pfagan24]

@@Unsensitive I'd recommend waiting for a patch that could maybe add some balance to Malenia, if you have a touchy relationship with the god known as RN Gesus...

[@altantulga8138]

@@pfagan24 they havent fixed the stutters, input delay

[@sebastienpaquin4586]

Kyle: "I don't like magic, boo!" Also Kyle: "'Magic is my favorite game of all time!"

[@danielmassie3910]

The quote liberals don't want you to see

[@yepyep86]

The duality of man

[@sebastienpaquin4586]

It's all in good fun, I also much agree with both of those things. But I do have one question, aside from gravity, would the atmosphere composition / density also play a role ion the maximum tree's size? Considering the ridiculous size of the giant ants and the giant dragonflies, we can infer the oxygen levels are much higher than on earth for example, so how would different kind / quantity of gasses affect plant growth?

[@domomitsune5920]

Next time someone says magic doesn't exist, show them the trading card game. You will be technically correct. The very best kind of correct.

[@drafty9580]

@@domomitsune5920 Or yah know show them a smartphone and tell them to explicitly tell you how it works...cause magic is just science that one doesn't understand and I definably don't understand how most modern electronics work. Well beyond "it seems run on some form electricity"...lol

[@ltlbuddha]

I'm pretty sure I read that redwoods, earth's tallest trees, get a significant amount of moisture from the air around the higher parts of their canopy. So the limit isn't, apparently, how far water can be pulled from ground level. I would think it would be the compressive strength of the tree's fibres or the ability to withstand the moment places on the tree during wind or imbalance.

[@platanogordo6775]

The issue is more about transporting (with the help of water) nutrients from soil to the top of the tree i think. That's why water obtained from humidity isn't enough.

[@patricktennant1585]

Veritasium has a great video on water and tree height.

[@Skill5able]

Zulie just did a video, the model actually reaches 4,5km up from where you're standing at the base, over 5km total model size

[@ColMcWillis]

Alternate hydration methodology: If the tree held pools of water in the crotches of the large branches it could act as a source of water at the higher elevation that would water the tree above and below it. If we are making an assumption of it being a non-earth location we have to consider the possibility that it doesn't follow all of the rules for our trees so could co-opt attributes of other plants like Pitcher Plants in this respect.

[@robofin117]

There is the possibility of the tree growing along side a piece of geography, like a hill, cliff, or mountain, right? Could have multiple avenues of water. That's also depending where the tree is in relation to sea level too.

[@Cvile69]

thisss

[@CoryLuLu]

Sure, but we should at least be able to assume that if it takes the same form, it likely has similar evolutionary reasons for doing so. It wouldn't just be the water that would be regionalized, rather all the resources. So if we think that resources are regionalized, then it should have branches and leaves all the way down instead of a flared top. We also need to keep in mind that we'd also have to justify how the upper regions don't need access to the root system. That all said, we know the tree is magical, sooooo....

[@auri1075]

I thought about the same but creating water pockets inside the very bark of the tree.

[@gabeconstanza15]

The real reality is that we need to set constraints in order to even analyze this because you can come up with endless things that would effect the max height the tree can reach.

[@YetiCoolBrother]

Fun fact: When you hit the dodge button your character dodges on *release* of the button not on press. If you want a dodge that activates on press you have to use Quickstep/Bloodhound Step.

[@timothydavid9769]

but dont hold too long or you start to sprint

[@SJNaka101]

Recommend quickstep if you just want a better dodge but don't want a completely broken invulnerability button. I mean, I use bloodhound step but I feel dirty using it 😂

[@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow]

Bloodhound step is so op 1v1 esp with bleeding dagger

[@Xeno1798]

@@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow You guys have just saved me days of irritation

[@chubbysolaireeaterofpussy3192]

ddue you just changed the way im gonna play yhat makes so much sense

[@jacobwheeler8897]

I was watching a documentary recently that explained one factor that allowed the Redwoods to grow so tall was fog. It stated that thick fog was natural to the area and allowed the trees to absorb some of their water through their leaves and trunks, reducing the need to pull it up from the ground. If this does play a role in their height, how does this change the theoretical limit (if it does at all)?

[@Amomferatus]

I have also seen that being said.

[@trogdor8764]

As Lindybeige pointed out, another limiting factor on the maximum height of a tree, is that the tallest tree tends to be the one that gets struck by lightning.

[@the_furry_inside_your_walls639]

Well, lightning is considered to be a holy thing in Elden Ring, so perhaps the Erdtree is immune to lightning, or possibly even capable of creating lightning?

[@raidermaxx2324]

yea i dont think so lol

[@concept5631]

@@raidermaxx2324 ?

[@christopherleeyee6011]

If you're talking about the input delay on the roll, I'm pretty sure that's because the roll is coded to button up, not button down, Because the roll button is also the sprint button. It seems it was done to prevent unintentional rolling while trying to sprint, but its also messes with how your roll comes out because it only comes out on the release of the button.

[@StoreyStarlight]

I'm not sure if this is Kyle's first FromSoft game but I do think that there is a learning curve, too, in how inputs are buffered. If you're mashing the light attack button the game isn't gonna let you dodge until all those light attacks are resolved, or until they get interrupted. It's a rough learning curve, I had the same issue when I first played Dark Souls!

[@Hellwalker855]

Input isn't delayed. There's an input queue.

[@itchykami]

@@StoreyStarlight Yea, I kinda hate how much it buffers. Maybe because I tend to mash what I want to happen until it does. I've adapted somewhat, but it's annoying.

[@questionablelifechoices7501]

@@itchykami Also there’s somewhat noticeable input lag on consoles. Which has fucked me over before.

[@lanceareadbhar]

@@questionablelifechoices7501 The only lag I've seen is when I do something before it so it won't cancel by design or when I don't release the dodge button quick enough. However, I have had some inputs on register, but I don't know if it's the game or my console that is the issue.

[@DrOmni]

Because dodge and sprint use the same button, pressing dodge doesn't actually trigger the dodge roll. It triggers only when you *release* the button, which is why it feels delayed. It's not, but we're not used to needing to release the button because we assume the action triggers on the press. If you want a more responsive dodge at no extra effort, try the quick step abilities. They activate on press and you can feel the difference instantly.

[@Capitalism_FGC]

Was wondering if anyone else knew this. Hello fellow Tarnished.

[@drothisgarrickk680]

Also i dont get the complaints on the camera. Just use lock on?

[@prich0382]

@@drothisgarrickk680 It's a pretty outdated method of game stye having this lock on feature, I myself am a extremely experianced Vermintide 2 player and having direct control of your character is just a better system overall, it relies more on your own skill rather then waiting for animations

[@keldwikchaldain9545]

The other part of this is that there's no animation canceling in elden ring (or other souls games), while there is in most other hack and slash games.

[@Pantagana]

Sekiro did it way better, where the dodge and sprint were also the same button, but the dodge happened on press, not on release. If you want to sprint, the character would first dodge, and then start sprinting. I don't know why they went back to the way it worked in Dark Souls for Elden Ring, it is in my opinion inferior.

[@SharkyShocker]

So I was exploring the water ways in the underground.... because that's just a thing I do, don't judge me, but I discovered that the source of water seems to come from the Deeproot Depths. Milky water seemed to be coming from the roots... so it may just be that the Erdtree is overflowing with so much water that it can quite literally create rivers. All in all, it's likely not right to say the Erdtree absorbs moisture through it's roots. In fact, it seems to be the opposite. A more likely alternative is that the fog around and above the Lands Between is so palpable that the top of the Erdtree has plenty of moisture. Perhaps even enough to spare.

[@ThePhysicsGun]

The Erdtree is dying, I wonder how that would affect this theory.

[@arachbae4777]

@@ThePhysicsGun it's dying due to the shattering, not the water level man.

[@nostalji75]

doubt it needs water. The thing is slighty transparent.

[@HR15DE]

Brah dont try to bring logic the game has magic. It may be just magical. Its a fantasy game

[@chasehicks7465]

If you haven't played a souls game you just CAN'T understand how satisfying it is to FINALLY beat that Boss/Area. After years of literally running into mass groups of enemies in games and always coming out unhurt or barely, it's a rough learning curve for the souls games but that also means the gratification of beating a souls game means that much more...

[@aidanbagshaw3411]

For those who dont know, dodging starts when you release the button, not on press, so mashing harder in frustration actually makes you slower. A light quick touch is your beat friend.

[@kalebperkasa]

Or use quickstep weapon art, better yet use blood hound step

[@Simon-gx1hd]

@@kalebperkasa I can't do that since I'd have to drop my Tree Sentinel equip for that (which is not an option since it's absolutely broken at the level I'm at right now). And I already got the weapon after the golden helbard which I just need a tiny bit more strength for

[@sdfkjgh]

@Aidan Bagshaw: This reminds me of the trigger mechanism for clay pigeon shotguns. They also work off of the release, and not the initial pull.

[@aidanbagshaw3411]

@@Simon-gx1hd you can equip it in your offhand, put it away, and then pull out out whenever you need it. The game is designed in such a way that any single attack in the game has SOME way to dodge roll through it. If you're stuck on something in particular, calm down, try a different timing, and try rolling into the attack instead of away from it

[@KiboraVT]

So intentional bad game design.

[@cerouluxray6394]

The salt is strong with this one. Don't worry, Kyle, you'll get through it.

[@blueskies792]

Salt is just angry sugar.

[@formschonerfettsack6989]

the best way to say "git gud" i've read yet

[@Eneov]

Magic is easy mode! You can do it!

[@pizzas4breakfast]

@@formschonerfettsack6989 "git gud" means "farm till you're overleveled" for me

[@torahibiki]

@@pizzas4breakfast become dodge or parry god.

[@nidungr3496]

Kyle: "Pressing dodge" doesn't result in dodging, RELEASING dodge does. 😂

[@duke605]

So a modder got the actual height of the tree and it's exactly 5048 meters. That's from lowest point to highest point, but the lowest point also extends a few hundred meters below the ground. 500 meters is laughably incorrect

[@xantishayde-walker4593]

Yeah multiply that by almost 10x. 😂 Good one, Kyle!

[@KNR90]

It's not rendered the same way in all areas. There's trickery involved, partly to make the world seem bigger and emphasize the tree. Skyrim uses similar tricks to make it feel like the world is bigger.

[@User31129]

Come on man, this tree is approximately the height of Pikes Peak? Please stop. Burj Khalifa I could understand.

[@KNR90]

@@User31129 Object height does not equal render height

[@__8120]

@@KNR90 what does this even mean?

[@michael_bullard]

I really want to hear your thoughts on the physics of The Outer Wilds!

[@djsmith9365]

Yes!!!

[@empatheticfrog2052]

That would be neat.

[@johnlemon252]

Agreed. I mean, the devs have gone on record saying that their gravity isn't EXACTLY like ours (it doesn't follow the inverse square law) but it'd still make an interesting jumping-off point for talking about tiny solar systems IRL.

[@el_p3nguin078]

YES THIS

[@bluesun5429]

Thats would be an instant-waatch for me

[@yellstr]

Imagine there is a chain of "pumps" inside the trunk. First "pump" gets water to a 100 meters via negative pressure. There it evaporates in a closed chamber, and is condensed back in a pool at the same level. From that pool, it can be sent further 100 meters up, and so on.

[@CoryLuLu]

Yeah, pumps make sense to me for an alien tree. We typically think of plants as only have passive mechanisms in place and only tiny amounts of actively moving parts, but these are alien plants and we already know there are mammal plant hybrids. Pumps exist in mammals, so of course they could exist in a magical alien tree.

[@trevororchard2741]

Hyperion is listed as 115.93m so the equations are missing something. I know for the Redwood there are special adaptations in the Xylem Vessels that are similar to the valves in out veins, that allow for water to flow better up to much higher heights. While 500m does start going into questions of strength of materials, I can imagine some form of natural adaptation allowing for water flow up to that height. Though the energy expenditure would be immense and as there doesn't seem to be anything even near that height around it I can't imagine any way selective pressure would result in adaptations going that way. Only possibility I can think of is a random mutation to push height that just happened to open up the 100m-500m range and it just went to the max with it.

[@tuliosabatino]

Loved the intro using only static images! Simply amazing

[@speedy_iron]

I actually love everything about this video like the KEKW+L+Ratio+Fell off, the gaming background, and game critiques absolutely beautiful.

[@thedethtoad2041]

I really like the idea of there being less gravity in Elden Ring. Helps me head canon why things can get so friggin' huge in the game. I have no scientific reason to believe that's true though, so maybe it's time to research...

[@sanguineregis5354]

At the very least shit can mess aroubd with gravity pretty darn easily in the lands betwee

[@electricheart7965]

I mean....it's true at the very least for Radahn since he has strong gravity controls and makes himself lighter so he can still ride on his small horse

[@W0lfSh1eld]

Less gravity don't mean you still can't fall off a cliff xD

[@deadkiing]

it would explain why you can fall 16meter without taking any damage

[@electricheart7965]

@@W0lfSh1eld it would explain a lot. From enemies being able to jump so high to so many monsters being so huge

[@brandonbertrand6148]

“I pressed dodge” honestly I feel that. So many times have I thought I pressed the button to drink one of my health flasks but nope. Input didn’t register and I die. Thank you Science Boi for telling us about big gold tree. I shall listen to the videos loading screen tips and help boost engagement.

[@graydi66y]

Dodge activates on the release of the button. Because sprint uses the same button and activates on press. So a quick press is what you need instead of a slower more intentional press. That's why it feels delayed or doesn't seem to register.

[@chromaticabberationsgiveme9811]

i dont think most elden ring players would like dark souls 2 at all, its everything that makes people rage in 1 game

[@stanhry]

Just get good, that simple. Or choose a Ranged attack character.

[@helygg8892]

@@chromaticabberationsgiveme9811 my mind is a twisted landscape and and my body is scars but I conquered that beast and will never return

[@the_furry_inside_your_walls639]

@@graydi66y That's not the only reason. The game actually has input lag issues. It's been the case for these games for a long time. Input Lag is a demon that Fromsoft has never been able to defeat, unfortunately.

[@SapioiT]

You know, the boiling might actually be what would help trees that tall. They would need a "vacuum tube" (in which water is pushed to make it to high elevations) in which water to boil, the vapors to rise, and then liquid water to be condensed by the biological heatsink known as leaves and branches. And if the bark is transparent and vacuum tubes are dark colored, with air-bubble gaps to insulate the exterior of the vacuum tube, then sunlight alone might be enough to help the vapors keep remaining water vapors and keep rising just as fast instead of stopping their rise part-way through. This could allow trees on Earth to reach the orbit, if carefully designed and aided to do so.

[@xantishayde-walker4593]

Good theory, until you said they *could* be *designed* to reach Earth orbit. They don't naturally...so....then they can't do it naturally because, if they could, we'd have found them. Yeah I don't know what more to say about that. It was good until you started speculating.

[@GambitsEnd]

@@xantishayde-walker4593 Just because something doesn't exist now doesn't mean it can't exist eventually. Your comment didn't exist before you posted it, but now it does. Would we assume that because it didn't exist before it was impossible for that comment to exist?

[@xantishayde-walker4593]

@@GambitsEnd No but it would be reasonable to assume that it could very well exist, due to the fact of my having a computer and phone which allow me the ability to leave such comments, internet access thru said devices, the ability to see, hear and feel in order to be able to post such comments, access to the platform on which comments are left, an account in good standing that enables me to leave such comments and the knowledge to access and use the platform to post such comments. So therefore, it's very reasonable to assume that one such as myself could not only possibly leave a comment, like I have, they could also assume it's probable that I would, seeing as I am interested in debating such things. Now, it's not probable for such trees to exist, like we see in Elden Ring, mainly because we have no evidence of any such tress existing due to the fact that none have ever been discovered, as far as I know. It's also fairly improbable for such trees to exist because none have ever been discovered, that I'm aware of. The closest thing we have on Earth would be the "General Sherman" Giant Sequoia in the Sequoia National Park, which is 274.9 *ft* high or about 84 meters. It's bark is not transparent, it doesn't seem to have dark tubes to carry moisture up to the top of the tree and it's naturally occurring. While it's fantastic and out of the range of what most people experience, it's an everyday observation that they are there, for the people who live and work near or in the forest and any who visit on a regular basis. So, for a tree to exist that is orders of magnitude larger than that, say oh Idk, ~14k ft or 4.4k meters tall, is at the least extremely improbable if not nearly impossible to believe.

[@TheLordHighNoob]

Couldn't you calculate the gravity of the Lands Between by falling from a set height and calculating the time it takes to fall said height? And, hence, calculating the force of gravity which fights against the Erdtree?

[@mudpie6927]

From what I can tell you don't fall faster so it may have moon or Mars like gravity

[@GeraltofRivia22]

But gravity magic exists, so clearly gravity can easily be manipulated in this universe.

[@Sibula]

That would also depend on the density of the atmosphere

[@johnlemon252]

@@Sibula I'd argue we could safely say that buoyancy would be negligible for a dude in full plate falling through a gas. Even if the air was relatively thick, I think it would have to be very dense in order to make much of an impact on the calculations compared to a vacuum full of spherical cows.

[@Sibula]

@@johnlemon252 Not only boyancy, but drag as well. Although if the set height was something like... 5 meters then it probably wouldn't matter much. It could matter for the height of the tree though, as it affects the pressure differential.

[@CalebTerryRED]

"this is 5 times taller than the tallest recorded tree"- So what you're saying is it's on the same order of magnitude as real trees? That's actually a lot smaller than I was expecting, and it also makes it seem much more plausible

[@BloodSprite-tan]

height doesn't seem to be it's biggest feature. radius alone it'll dwarf trees. and it's probably way more massive given the radius.

[@matheussanthiago9685]

yeah, get some hunter x hunter magic tree elden rings that thing suck up energy directly into the magma and breaches out into space at its dwarf size

[@zacharywilliams9708]

What were you expecting, planet size trees?! Didn't make it more plausible at all

[@CalebTerryRED]

@@zacharywilliams9708 there are a lot of orders of magnitude between "trees" and "planets". That thing is huge, it covers a massive island chain and seems to be above you even when you're on the opposite end. The idea that regular trees can be ⅕ that size does seem odd

[@danieljensen2626]

@@CalebTerryRED I wonder if 500m is the lore height or the actual height of the rendered object compared to other assets. A lot of times lore dimensions are at odds with visuals. (For example, basically nothing in Attack on Titan is drawn the right size for it's quoted height.)

[@luccapaly]

Nice job on the editing, SO GOOD !

[@miri669]

Erdtree model is 5000 meters high, 4452 of them being above ground.

[@nivolcMmAI]

This is probably the earliest I've ever been to one of your videos so I'll take another crack at it. I would LOVE to see you crunch the numbers for the "Rhino Stomp" in Warframe. The ability states "Rhino stomps with force sufficient to disrupt time". No weird energy or tech bs just straight force since there is another frame that messes with time but specifically states she's using a device to do so while this specifies force. Now theoretically it is possible to disrupt time with a significant enough burst of energy but I'm fairly certain the forces required to do so would wipe a planet clean of life if not blink it out of existence.

[@raidermaxx2324]

wait how is it possible to "disrupt time with a burst of energy" ? fill me in please

[@KodyackCasual]

OK, but here's something I thought of pretty quickly and I wonder if it would matter. What if the water at the base of the tree is converted into vapor? Would that allow it to go up higher, and return to liquid while in the upper branches and "rain" into the rest of the tree as necessary? Light is energy, after all, so maybe the light given off by the tree is a mixture of this sort of energy being input and released throughout the whole organism.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

Also have to ask what the atmospheric conditions are like - quite possible that super tall magic tree doesn't need to draw all its water from the ground, it can condense it from the air or catch rain basically at the location it needs it. Biggest question to me for such a tall tree in the fairly conventional shape of Elden Rings tree is can it actually survive any side loading by the wind? I would think at that scale its going to fall or snap no matter what its growing into because the wind catching at the top is just too vast and on the end of a mighty long lever

[@KodyackCasual]

@@foldionepapyrus3441 Interesting you point that out! But, we know for a fact that the Erdtree is super dense and durable, more than enough to survive the wind. How? the thorns that prevent access. they're "impenatrable", and able to withstand attacks from people (and spells) that can slay dragons, golems, and more! Thus, the tree itself is super durable and resistant to harm, so it can withstand the wind.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

@@KodyackCasual Only if its tied into ground that can take all that loading. Plus level up a few more times maybe you can just cut straight through the tree effortlessly - how the game has been for me tediously easy and clunky feeling combat till you hit a guy that is impossible, level up another time or two and its trivial again...

[@KodyackCasual]

@@foldionepapyrus3441 Ah, see, I was assuming you actually knew a decent bit about the lore and such of the game you were talking about, but I see that isn't the case. I'll make this response quick and simple, then, but do try not to argue on things you don't know. 1. the roots of the Erdtree span the entirety of the lands between. Going through the entirety of the Altus Plateu, and the lands under it. It has plenty of support given how large it's root system is. 2. leveling up has nothing to do with breaking the barrier into the tree. Nobody of any strength has ever been able to break in, including people phsycially stronger than the player tarnished. Even a maxed out character cannot break the barrier. It requires being burned down by flames that are godly in nature.

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

@@KodyackCasual Indeed, didn't get that far into it - I found the game so bloody tedious as the combat difficulty is yawn over 90% of the time, the big challenge being the awful camera. With the occasional cheapshotting unbeatable instadeath fight, at least until you level up just a bit and then that same fight tends to become yawn again - to the point that it just isn't fun enough to keep playing. The story hasn't grabbed me enough to really want to play through the large swathes of barely above baby's first videogame difficulty either... You say the tree has plenty of support but that only counts if the ground its rooted in is actually up to taking the loads, and as you are saying the tree is the nearest thing to perfectly indestructibly strong and stiff that means that 500m tall tree with giant canopy to act as a sail has no energy damping/absorbing property, so every little gust applied at the top with 500m of leverage is going straight into the ground, and the ground seems like normal enough rock and dirt there is no way it can take that sort of constant hammering with every puff of wind for long no matter how wide the roots are the impossible strength of them is going to carve out the ground bit by bit as the wind shifts and turns, and probably do so very very quickly as 500m of leverage for a wind catcher that large even the tiny puff of wind is going to be acting on the ground around the roots like explosives in terms of force delivery, quickly trashing the softer earth and stone putting ever more load on the harder stuff till it too gives up....

[@thomasagra856]

According to Zullie The Witch(you can find her channel on KZbin), using the measurements from the highest point of the tree to the base in the game, the Erdtree almost have 5 km of height! I only wonder how small the planet is in comparison to the Earth to be this big, but never forget about magic and stuff

[@xantishayde-walker4593]

She displays on screen 4,452 m or ~14,606 ft from the ground to the tip of the tallest branch, if we want to be technical, which I did. If you wanted more exact measurements, you're welcome. If not, sorry...?

[@thomasagra856]

@@xantishayde-walker4593 I'm not offended by the correction, the fact is that it is A HUGE A## TREE we got here on our hands, don't worry about the exact height

[@yeffaros8419]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who came back here. If anyone disputes how accurate those are, the player character is listed 1.7m tall (about 5'7") which is about average for a Japanese male so it can't be too far off.

[@kaikart123]

This, the calculation were wrong

[@MaxMadmax123321]

This needs to be higher up!

[@deheavon6670]

Or: a) you could have >50 bars of atmospheric pressure b) vegetation that actively pumps water upwards c) vegetation that collects rainwater from above d) an evaporation-condensation cycle inside the trunk If anyone has other ideas, comment below.

[@ConnorSinclairCavin]

The amount that i want to see the face cam stream of Kyle’s attempts to become the Elden Lord is almost as high as the great tree itself…

[@vellexander4422]

You can probably calculate the gravity of Elden Ring's universe by measuring the fall speed of a character falling off of a cliff with a known height and the time it takes to fall from said cliff (height measured in cheat engine)

[@zachtwilightwindwaker596]

Isn't gravity usually higher in games?

[@Ceece20]

Don’t forget, gravity magic exists in Elden Ring. So probably the tree can gravity magic the water all the way up.

[@NIRDIAN1]

Zullie The Witch managed dig into the game's geometry and her results show it to be roughly 5000m tall... Bit off from 500...!

[@SpartanAegis]

I've been wondering about this for a while now ever since I started my Elden Ring gameplay. I'm glad someone is finally tackling this question.

[@m.s.e.advanced2842]

Lovable sort ahead, In short, Praise the erdtree!

[@ElkRiverDog]

11:24 Something that might interest folks: farmers and loggers have been using a variation of this phenomenon to kill invasive gorse and scotch broom in my area for years. They make a deep cut in the plant and smother it with a mixture of fertilizer and heavy duty herbicide. The idea is that the injured plant will suck up the nutrients in an effort to repair itself, but die from the poison it takes in. Kind of like hiding arsenic in cake. Now, I can show this clip to all the old-timers and let them know they can skip the fertilizer. Negative pressure will take care of the rest. 😁👍🤣

[@NicholasMarshall]

Hold up. The cake is poisoned? That's cheating! I was told I got to choose between cake or death. I choose cake. My cake should not contain any death. Now I gotta find a mouse to test my cake. I guess the cake is a lie after all.

[@Sibula]

I'd imagine it would work just as well without the nutrients but what do I know.

[@stevenscott2136]

Is there a reason they don't just cut the tree down?

[@ElkRiverDog]

@@stevenscott2136 Gorse and scotch broom shrubs have notoriously persistent root systems. If you just cut them down or pull them up by the roots and don't get every last bit, they simply grow back with a vengeance. Plus, an added benefit to killing the whole shrub in place is that it helps the landowner keep track of areas they've already treated.

[@sdfkjgh]

@@NicholasMarshall: See, that's why you should always choose the chicken. Yes, it's bland as all hell, and a little overcooked (bullshit, it's more rubbery than a hockey puck slapshot into a tire factory!), but that's the way things go on _Anglican Airlines._

[@LazloVimes]

Will you please do a video on ‘how deep can sand get?’. I had the thoughts watching Dune, of course. I found some information on ergs but nothing similar to a ‘sand sea’ scenario like Dune. I would guess the, idk… ‘fluid movement’ of sand would also depend on gravity and other macro variables; but, I also imagine the worms would help with movement of lower depth sand and the larvae in mass would have an effect also, but on a more micro scale. Anyway, it would be fun to see what someone smart thought. Thank you for the videos, I always enjoy watching :)

[@bigfoot3044]

The Basilik Joke really got me, that one was unexpected. Really nice reference there ;)

[@SenZenZero]

never thought I would hear Kyle say "kekw" literally had me rolling 🤣

[@SoulKingBK]

was so funny because i didnt expect it... Its like hearing a mythbuster say poggers

[@2wings1bird31]

Shameless fan service 🙄

[@SoulKingBK]

@@2wings1bird31 So what! Who are you? Who maid you arbitor of who and who can't use twitch slang.

[@2wings1bird31]

@@SoulKingBK did I say anyone could or couldn't use it?

[@kyasuriin413]

I live about an hour from Hyperion. It's the tallest tree that we know of. There may have been taller trees that have since died or been cut down (Redwoods were heavily logged up until the 2000s). There may even be one out there that just hasn't been found yet. Part of what helps them grow so tall is the coastal fog which, unfortunately due to climate change, we have been getting less and less of every year. Anyone who can come see the trees should. They're amazing. If you do make it out to the Redwood coast check out The Avenue of the Giants in southern Humboldt and the Give of Titans in Del Norte. And even though Hyperion is the tallest, it's really not worth the effort needed to get out to it.

[@spencervance8484]

Ive been to the redwood forest. Although only once and briefly. I still get the memories of it being sacred.

[@KainaX122]

Okay, for a split second there I thought you meant ‘Hyperion’ as in the weapons company from the Borderlands series

[@teemusid]

The previous record holder was publicized lost its title to a lightning strike that shortened it.

[@raidermaxx2324]

climate change?? next you are going to claim we live on a globe earth! LOL Brainwashed!

[@postapocalypse1237]

Love the basilisk reference, very clever way of sneaking that in there

[@jumpingspiderjesusfreak6219]

I kinda wished this video included the Game Theory thing where we measure what the gravity in this world is by jumping off things.

[@ruyman90]

Honestly I would think something like this magic tree has actually a pulse and is using some kind of heart to pump water to the top to then be watered down by gravity. I mean this thing is massive. Just a few pumps would fit rather easy and they don't have to work that hard as there can be several of them working slowly and constantly.

[@Ontheroad13]

Love the paper that you found on astrobiology, fascinating! Also your take at 10:00 has been my feeling on their games gameplay for years. It’s so frustrating.

[@SwedetasticGames]

Yeah because both sprint and roll is on same button, and sprint is if it is held down, the roll only initiates on button release. Takes a while to get used to.

[@overshotelf2964]

I laughed so hard when Roko's Basilisk came in and fried you... great video, Kyle! XD

[@brazenh2836]

Depending on the organism itself an infinitely large creature is possible if most of it is dead i.e. said tree is glowing therefore i assume it is not a normal tree and therefore could be "living" through chemosynthesis. this allows the "tree" to be made of supermaterials formed through chemical process which gives off light making it more like a giant crystal rather than plant. either way if the base is crystaline it could have the compressive strength required for support and the top could be crystaline inhabited by chemobacteria (like coral) that constantly build the structure or the large branch structure absorbs chemical rain and "grows" by layering its crystaline base... But either way its a magic tree in a game...

[@alexschuster1618]

I like this response. It's so old that parts are starting to petrify and still, simultaneously, living and growing.

[@MSDesignASMR]

I really want this game.... is it worth it?

[@sabata2]

If you like the soulskiroborne gameplay style, then yes. If you don't like the struggle of finding out how to beat a boss or "getting good" with your chosen solution... Then no.

[@mattcy6591]

If you enjoy failure sure. Seems like every single human being loves this game and plays it from waking hour until... waking hour. I played it for 3 hours and it didn't click with me. To each their own I guess.

[@MrKing-qd7gi]

I think that if you think it looks cool then you'll like it IF you stick with it long enough. It may not click at first but when it does, it clicks hard. It pretty much uses psychology to make us like it whether intentionally or not. More effort = bigger reward. Overcome challenge, get visibly better and stronger. Get your butt kicked, get better at the game, then being able to kick butt back. It's the most well designed game around those key ingredients. It also helps that its lore, level/world design, enemy/boss design and just everything is so well designed and artistic. I reccomend anyone who's even just a little interested to get it. Don't let the difficulty intimidate you too much. It's never too hard even if it feels like it, trust me. Most newbies give up when they feel it. Us souls vets feel it too we've just played it enough to understand its the game trying to intimidate us so that when we do get past it, it's us who did that and we can relish in the fact that we've achieved what seemed impossible multiple times as you progress. You are the underdog of the game but despite how it seems at first, the game is rooting for you. You won't know 100% till you try it.

[@Neptune0404]

Its not for everyone, but if you think there is a chance you would like it then I highly recommend you give it a try, as it is an amazing experience for those it clicks with. The main hindrance is the difficulty, which isn't for everyone, so if you dislike games being difficult then it might not be for you. But with that said Elden Ring is less brutal than the previous souls games since it is open world. As there is nearly always somewhere else you could be, something else you can do, and something else to fight. It allows for the game to be as hard as you want it to be, whether you go exploring and gathering items and levels until you feel ready to take on a boss with summons, better weapons, and higher stats, or you simply brute force it right away. The gameplay is thrilling, the characters are fascinating and the lore, oh my the lore is great. Souls games already have an amazing way of telling a story that constantly gives you questions along with their answers, making it an endless loop of enticing discovery. And now it also has that flair of George R. R. Martin's writing which makes it so exiting to just explore the world. So yeah, I think it's worth it.

[@TheRedstonian]

Expect a learning curve, but there's a reason why the games have such an immense following. If you do try it, remember that dying isn't a failure. It's a learning opportunity.

[@kimjongdaddy6793]

You've done it again Kyle Hill answering the real questions that matter. God speed

[@LOBricksAndSecrets]

Just taking a moment to appreciate the fact that "International journal for Astrobiology" is a thing that just casually EXISTS.

[@Combatwhombat]

It's just the field trying to figure out where life is most likely to exist and how it might be different. Was a pretty interesting class in college.

[@luckyday5721]

What is funny is he could have used the ingame Basilisk...Guess having a spikey tree burst out of the back of your spine into the ground and supspend you into the air(can we all agree new death blight is the most metal instadeath in these games) would be hard to make animated

[@darkunicorn6669]

Elden ring dodge rolls actually activate when you RELEASE the button input, not when you press it initially. This is different from most from soft games and why people have trouble dodging.

[@sabata2]

Which is disappointing because they did it right with Sekiro, but given the variable dodge rates in ER, they couldn't make the same structure work flawlessly.

[@BulletWilliam]

Actions are also queued and dodging is the only thing that interrupts it if I remember correctly. The game wants you to play it kind of like a rhythm game.

[@A.R.T.4]

All Dark Souls and Bloodborne games were on release as well. Elden Ring just takes slightly longer to decide if you want to roll or sprint

[@ganjasage420]

Tallest known tree. "Hyperion is a coast redwood in California considered the world's tallest known living tree. Hyperion was discovered August 25, 2006, by naturalists Chris Atkins and Michael Taylor. The tree was verified as standing 115.55 m tall by Stephen Sillett." This is the highest we know a tree to grow. It could still be growing taller each day. But in theory this is about the tallest a tree can grow.

[@danieljensen2626]

Congratulations, you commented before watching the video.

[@ganjasage420]

@@danieljensen2626 congratulations, you called me out because it matters so much. Nothing wrong with posting information, before or after watching a video.

[@designerwookiee]

Having the callback to The Basilisk in the form of a boss that appears and 1-shots Kyle in this episode with the recurring "I pressed dodge!" gimmick got me.

[@lordsetarurare]

This also assumes that this tree works the same as Trees on earth. For all we know this Tree has some form of active transport system for water. for the tree to get that big it would need to have evolved to adapt to the challenges of such size. An Idea I have is that maybe it had something akin to a Heart only having several of them all thru its trunk, this would require more energy but would also allow for greater height by actively pumping water.

[@jtm-25]

Average person: how big can a tree get? Kyle: I doubt you could even imagine it…

[@chrism3562]

You're selling the lab coats? Hmmm, sounds like an excellent way to infiltrate the totally legit and not evil lair laboratory. :D

[@deadshot0908]

But they have Lasers there

[@phoenixjen8986]

True, but I bet you could dodge em

[@PaddyPatrone]

Might be a real consideration for big future mars greenhouses. Only 1/3 of earths gravity = 300m tall trees?

[@RuneKatashima]

Btw what Kyle is saying about delayed input is true but it has a reason. The dodge button is the same button as sprint and you hold to sprint. So the game has to figure out whether you're trying to sprint or dodge. So it just lets you dodge on release, not on press. If it did it on press you couldn't sprint. If they put dodge on A/X then sprint jumping would be very difficult. And other buttons would be awkward or have their own problems. So this is what we get.

[@xINVISIGOTHx]

What if they grew little bark cup hole with tubes that collect water for the top of the tree

[@CraftyVegan]

vanilla orchids have roots along the entire length, so it’s not impossible. even on earth.

[@JRedMage]

Great video. However when I first saw the tree there wasn't a single thought in my skull that didn't scream "wow a giant magic tree."

[@everdash]

1:35 "GAMER CHAIR DESCEND." * tsssssssssssssss * 😅😅😅

[@TheInfinityMaster1]

Imagine if somehow this video gets taken down (for whatever reason) and then when Kyle logs online to check the status of this video, he gets this message: *"YOU DIED"*

[@DragonxFlutter]

I love when he does episodes like this. Fun, silly, not potentially controversial in any way.

[@anushbhattarai8849]

Yay gamer kyle video

[@JTheBoldandNoble]

Friendly reminder to all that input lag can be lowered by using a monitor without graphic enhancement features or using Game Mode on your TV. it's a VERY small difference, but it is very noticeable when playing ER lol.

[@gladzac8670]

Idk why but the Basilisk transition actually made my heart jump, it made me think that you should definitely have some kind of Roko's Basilisk merch. I'd definitely get myself some of that if it ment life or death.

[@lidular]

Would higher density atmosphere help in growing a tree larger? The primary mechanism of water transport isn't capillary action but does it help?

[@CigsInABlanket]

That would likely also lead to less light (energy) getting through the atmosphere to the plants. Probably making it worse.

[@My2cents.]

One doesn’t experience self transcendence, the illusion of self only dissipates-🎈

[@althesilly]

9:40 because it makes actions feel deliberate.

[@C_Animus]

Loved the video Kyle. I knew the bit about water tension moving water up trees but not the negative force bit. My brain, it grows! Your rant on input delays makes me want to make my video on From Soft's dodge input. FYI because its 'on release' rather than 'on press' it feels far more delayed than literally everything else. Keep up the good work good sir.

[@raidermaxx2324]

oh wait so is that true? about the input being delayed? i swear that my controller was feeling so weird when i play that game, especially with block and parry .. so is this a real thing?

[@johnlazaro8376]

Could this be a hidden villain? Be wary of decoy

[@TheCrewLT]

The spin rate of the planet in question would also affect the perceived gravity, so mass alone is not a good metric.

[@flyn2274]

Happy to see the return of equations in the videos!

[@18matts]

The way you say "poor tarnished" lol 😆 😂

[@fandiandan]

"Booting up the game, instantly dying to the Tree Sentinal, and rage quitting" Man this hits home...

[@a_Minion_of_Soros]

So you didn't think to measure gravity in game? That would have been an easy way to verify, and would be linear with maximum tree height.

[@fenrirr22]

Gravity doesn't work well in games. It is always far smaller than it should be (or you don't even accelerate after a fairly low velocity) even in "real World" games.

[@ekszentrik]

He just casually dropped we already discovered Moon-sized manlet exoplanets.

[@remembertobreathe66]

10:40 Kyle: "But I don't like magic. Boo!" The Locust God: ~cries~

[@matthewrenault7839]

The Erdtree is magic and link to the Elden ring itself also part of the equation as well.

[@felixmenard8799]

Hey Kyle I have a question for you. How fast could healing actually happen, using science and technology of course, but like could it happen like it does in anime when they regenerate?

[@WisdomThumbs]

With technology indistinguishable from magic by current standards, limbs could be regenerated in seconds. But you'd probably risk hella cancer. Like... So much cancer. This theory brought to you by my ass, from whence it emerged.

[@raidermaxx2324]

wait what are you talking about? like healing human beings?

[@gryphon1708]

3:09- that "I pressed dodge !!" Is too real 😭

[@trinodot8112]

The minor erdtrees are probably pretty realistic since they are like the size of redwood trees on Earth

[@deusprogrammer_thekingofspace]

When I saw this tree for the first time in game I literally stopped in my tracks and just stared at it in awe. I might have even cried a little bit.

[@Minifigure17]

"Kek + W + ratio + fell off" LMAO

[@johnfidler8151]

Nice video very interesting i love the science you do keep up the good work lil bro!!!!

[@The_Mr._Biscuit]

Another supporting example to the gravity postulate, your character's jump height. In full plate armor, you can still jump several feet into the air.

[@communistcomputergod6449]

The answer is yes! I don’t care what you say. I wanna believe in a magical world!

[@silverhammer8464]

I was reading an item description the other day ( don't remember what item) but it said that the lands between exist on earth.

[@logix8969]

Kyle: *presses dodge* Trinity: "Dodge this!"

[@tubbums32]

8:03 "Oh, hi Mark"