This Thought Experiment Changed THE MATRIX

[@kylehill]

Thanks for watching! Reality may be simulated, but my appreciation is not.

[@ki-kodevorne7318]

I think the existence of a God would be something worth noting in deciding whether or not to unplug or stay plugged in, as with any religion that would make reality much more important. Though that's an entirely different topic.

[@Johnny_Nitro]

@@ki-kodevorne7318 The existence of God is just as likely as the existence of Extraterrestrial Civilizations. Believers and Sky Watchers alike are convinced that what they search for MUST exist based on evidence that each considers plausible if not irrefutable. I'd say both groups are living by faith.

[@EyesOfByes]

10:46 Aspergers be like *"Well that's an understatement"*

[@Johnny_Nitro]

@@the-weirdist Getting together in a big extravagant building is a first world luxury, that first world people see as a burden. Anybody that has been a missionary in remote places are happy to have a roof of any kind overhead. North America especially is spoiled for comfort and choice in every aspect of life and it produces ungrateful and entitled people.

[@Johnny_Nitro]

I know Kung Fu. He's nice.

[@Space_Racer]

Something that these questions miss on the matrix is that all of the other people in the matrix are real people. The relationships made in the matrix are real and those people can be moved from simulation to real life with you. I feel like that changes a lot of people's choice to leave the simulation or not.

[@NaoyaYami]

Great point. We can already see it today, with how many solid relationships (friendships or even marriages) started out by strangers meeting in an online game.

[@dvklaveren]

Actually, it's suggested that not everyone you know is a human in the Matrix.

[@GeekPsychologist]

To me, being capable of maintaining relationships with other human beings inside the simulation would actually help me stay in. If my wife turned out to be someone else connected into the simulation, I would have no problem staying plugged in. But if she, and everyone else, were just parts of the simulation programed to be my friends and family, I would prefer to be unplugged to be able to meet actual people with their own thoughts and emotions.

[@himynameis3664]

@@dvklaveren That makes sense that not everyone you know online is actually real. I got into a conversation on KZbin earlier and it actually went very well, so now this has me thinking more than likely not a real persond

[@roundcube2948]

@@GeekPsychologist Who's to say that humans outside the simulation function the same way that they do inside. Imagine everybody else speaking some alien language and they have no understanding of money or even the concept of ownership.

[@GeekPsychologist]

I think one of the biggest flaws comparing The Matrix with the experience machine proposed by Nozick, and why probably a lot of people, included myself, chose to plug in, is relationships. In the movies we are told other real people exist and are connected into the Matrix, one could form REAL relationships with other humans beings, even if inside a simulation. Meanwhile, the experience machine thought experiment suggests you are being separated from all reality, including other human beings. If I had to choose between staying plugged in into my life, it would greatly depend on the reality outside said life. The others around me exist outside of the simulation? Do I have a relationship with another human being or with an AI programmed to have said relationship with me? Those, I believe, are the most important factors separating the premise from The Matrix from Nozick's ideas.

[@AlkisGD]

Interestingly, in the Matrix you could have a relationship with a program. After all, programs in that universe aren't mindless scripted NPCs. They're closer to a different type of life form. The aptly named Animatrix short "Program" examines this and it's one of my favorites from that anthology.

[@GeekPsychologist]

@@AlkisGD Yes! I actually love that way of thinking. The programs in the matrix are so complex. They act like completely intelligent and independent beings. Like Smith going to the extreme in order to catch Neo. That's why I said in the poll I would plug back into a situation like the matrix. The matrix is so complex, even the programs inside of it seem to have their own will. Meanwhile, I would hate a simulation were everything is just programed to simulate being intelligent. That's what would ruin things for me.

[@dr_birb]

I the "lack" of friends and family thing would only create stronger bias aganist it, even if simulated friends and fam were as good.

[@rohitchaoji]

Then there's the case of solipsism, which includes the belief that nothing except the self exists anyway, so would it be any different for people who believe that? I guess to them, it's just another reality/existence generated by their minds.

[@addammadd]

Not only are the interactions you have within the context of the relationship via social media/simulation curated by the algorithm, but the surrounding ecosystem you use to contextualize those interactions is itself part of the fabric of the simulation. You speak the language it tells you to speak. You push the buttons it allows you to push. The hook isn’t just the acute experience, it’s the general atmosphere that is the scene of that experience. There is nothing about your experience there that isn’t working to shift your cognitive reality into its sensual hyper reality. It exploits our primal urge to manifest patterns to engineer its pattern into our behavioral responses. You are “socializing” via Skinner box. You are the product.

[@PinataOblongata]

I once phone surveyed people about water treatment for a job. We asked them if they would drink water recycled from sewage waste if it was 100% clean and safe. Even though they were assured of the safety and that it was just pure water, they still didn't like the _though_ of it. So you can't really say to a correspondent "you won't even know the difference between this reality and the simulated one" because in their mind they think they somehow will still know the difference, even though that's not the scenario you've given them.

[@perrinlarson3842]

Or rather, it's not that they think they will know the difference. It's that right now, they do, and they know that even if they won't know it once they're in, it will still be true, and they don't like the thought of unknowingly wasting their lives, even if it will be a pleasantly wasted life.

[@AndrooUK]

​@@perrinlarson3842 Yes, but if it's an infinite nest of realities. Also, 'heaven' is a silly concept. Eternity doing nothing? Boring. We would want to try different lives over and over, and 'heaven' might just be the interstitial space inbetween lives, some kind of place to rest and decide what to try next, and catch up with other entities with stories of what we've tried. Arguably, 'life' is completely pointless when it goes on for eternity, but 'life' is also the entire point of our being, no matter what we do each time, it's all valuable experience and having a go 'just because', just to try it. Thus we may even choose each life, or press a random button, or a mixture of both. Then we get into the argument that we may only be one consciousness, but with time being irrelevant, we come back over and over and try each life, like replaying a game and picking a different NPC each time, but for eternity and in eternal lives and realities... and making us 'god', all of existence. Ah, philosophy.

[@perrinlarson3842]

@@AndrooUK In lew of anything to actually confirm that such fanciful possibilities are the case though, we must assume, for the present, that reality, as we know it, is real, and make our decisions based on that assumption. To do otherwise is insanity, or leads to it.

[@perrinlarson3842]

@@AndrooUK I suppose I should also mention that there is no good reason to believe that heaven is an eternity doing nothing. In fact, I would say that that is one of the most detrimental misconceptions about heaven in the modern day. "Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?" - 1 Corinthians 6:3 This is just one example of hints in scripture that heaven is a place of _increased_ (not decreased) responsibility and meaning. A place where we are matured grown ups doing and handling matured grown up things compared to the children-in-training we essentially are in this life.

[@joedirt3563]

Is the city water those people drinking not recycled sewage?

[@damouze]

There was actually a movie before the Matrix trilogy that dealt with these questions. It's called "Total Recall", it came out in 1990 and it is based on the 1966 short story "We remember it for you wholesale" by Philip K. Dick. In fact, in the movie the main character is also given the choice of consuming a pill to go back to reality. The experience machine experiment is presented as the subject entering a dream-like state in which a simulated reality is imposed on the senses. In the case of the main character, the simulation is about him as a secret agent making a trip to Mars.

[@dmgroberts5471]

Ok, MCU Peter Parker, you've made me feel old.

[@lethargictroll6788]

@@MattStephenson523 "Blue Skies on Mars", friend.

[@jtmack77]

Another movie that explores this is The Truman Show. Everyone in the simulation are real people that Truman interacts with. So, are those relationships real or not and does it matter?

[@phillip2169]

​@@jtmack77 they weren't real. They are hired to have those relationships (and do commercials), so inherently they aren't real

[@betatester03]

Dammit, you don't have to make it sound like Total Recall is some lost, ancient media, unearthed from some archeology dig site. "Oh, let's take a careful look at this forgotten tome..." *Blows dust from a mineral encrusted VHS tape.* Dude, it was 1990 -- a whopping 33 years ago. [Insert some ornery quip about going back to Fortnite or something.]

[@_khooman_chronicles_]

This was actually tackled in the movies itself. When they remove Neo from the matrix, they specifically say "He's too old to be leaving the matrix" meaning that the more old and attached he becomes to the matrix, the more it'd be hard for him to leave it. The only reason Neo was able to, was because he resented his current life and was a rebel at heart... The perfect specimen for men ready to leave matrix.

[@uekernas]

As I recall, Morpheus kind of alludes to this in an early scene, when he asks Neo: “How do you define real? If real is what you can see and touch, then reality is simply electrical impulses interpreted by your brain.”

[@yt_Ajay_]

It's surprising to hear Morpheus say something like that and yet fight so hard to bring people into the 'real world' anyway. If reality is just something your brain tells you, then the matrix can be as real as anything.

[@dreathnor]

And this further justifies Cypher's decision to betray Morpheus and the crew. If all reality is, is a series of electrical impulses interpreted by your brain, then Cypher being able to literally pick his reality is really simple arithmetic. Live in the hellscape that is objective reality or live in a reality constructed for you and by you wherein you'll be happier and (presumably) have less of a struggle.

[@SenhorAlien]

@@yt_Ajay_ the matrix *is* as real as anything. It is simply a fight against the machines, for freedom. Why? Because freedom.

[@SenhorAlien]

@@dreathnor it does not justify Cypher's decision to betray Morpheus in any way, shape, or form. It simply points out that he stands to win from doing so, but it's still morally bankrupt, nevermind the fact he hated it/them anyway.

[@NewNecro]

@@SenhorAlien Morality and responsibility is as subjective and arbitrary as definitions of what's real. So in a standpoint of a acknowledgement that neither reality matters it absolutely endorses someone with a hedonistic-like view that goal of the "more comfortable" world justifies the means, as the reality and consequences outside the goal (the preferred world) won't matter.

[@justineck5664]

This reminds me of the simulated jail sentence in ST DS9. O'Brien breaks some law on a nearby planet and they implant a memory of him spending 20 years in prison and then woke him up and sent him home to deal with his ptsd. If we could create the experience machine to implant a perfect life then we could also use it as a form of punishment or even torture. We don't need any more help being terrible to each other, we're good enough at it already.

[@inkmcsquiddin2034]

Ah...but if I could give everyone their perfect life, the people who want to hurt each other could do it in the machine and believe it's real. I could use it to make sure those people never hurt a real person in the first place. Of course then we get ask if it's ethical to hurt a perfect simulation of something vs the real thing...

[@fugslayernominee1397]

That's the main reason i oppose simulated minds or mind uploads. At least in this world (assuming it is real) no matter what torture someone may inflict on you it would eventually come to pass after a maximum of few years or minutes as death is always an option to end your sufferings. But simulation changes this, even if we could have full control on our civilization their may still be some psychopaths, sadists, sick supremacists twats that could find a poor sould and torture them to near eternity. Even single sentient being going through that much suffering would outweigh the suffering of all of the human race till now.

[@Gfish17]

I'm all for simulation technology. It appears you all assume the majority of humanity will gravitate towards causing simulated pain to one another. I don't hold that assumption and I want my consciousness to continue to Exist in some format.

[@inkmcsquiddin2034]

@@Gfish17 I'm cautious about it, probably because I know very little about it.

[@Gfish17]

@@inkmcsquiddin2034 That's true caution is smart.

[@mikeanco]

Speaking for myself, I'm autistic, I have very frequently gone through this thought experiment. I have always concluded that I would prefer the life that I judge as 'better', regardless of 'realness'. Provided internally it feels the same, I always feel a little disassociated from the real world so it's challenging for me, as I don't know whether I would feel any differently inside a simulation, arguably I would feel better inside a simulation as the AI would be able to adapt to me and inside my simulation people would likely react better to me and my challenges

[@SenhorAlien]

That is... the logical choice. What does it matter if it's real or not seeing as to any person it would, theoretically, all feel the same.

[@rhov-anion]

I also struggle with disassociation, feeling like I was the robot or simulation and others were the real people whom I observed. Being in a simulation tailored to my needs might feel more "real" than a world full of people who don't understand the autistic mind and make me feel like I'm the one who's "fake."

[@BombaJead]

@@SenhorAlien it's not logical to me, and I think it is a dangerous mindset that only leads to stagnation. It would be a different story if one where to treat the simulation as something for leisure, that would be totally fine but not treating it as the end goal.

[@SenhorAlien]

​@@BombaJead first, why is it not logical to you? You already cannot tell whether the reality you live in now is a simulation or not, so what are you even going to say is "real" in any scenario? Besides, you couldn't tell if the reality you woke up to, in this thought experiment given, is, again, reality or just another simulation. "Realness" is not something you could ever tell for sure, because you can't definitely know what is real. Even in our times, without simulations that advanced, people have delusions and hallucinations they believe is real. Now, if everyone, and every animal and plant, and even the laws of physics had the exact same hallucination, and treated it as real, is it not "real" then? How could you differentiate? Besides, "only leads to stagnation." How? Where? This makes no sense. And what would the problem be with treating it as an end goal?

[@TheCuteZombie]

@@SenhorAlien the difference is action and reaction. I have tough about it for a long time and noticed that the difference between reality and simulation is the consequences of the actions. Spending a lifetime in a illusion putting blood and sweat and then weaking up and discovering that it was all meaningless would be a nightmare. This life may be shit, but you can't deny the knowledge and wisdom you get out of it. If you keep it or not when leaving existence is another matter entirely.

[@willb.nimble6749]

This is interesting in how it relates to those that get addicted to MMO's and such. They are willingly plugging into the machine, because of what it gives them compared to what they have.

[@HenriFaust]

People get addicted to MMOs due to operant conditioning, not due to escaping reality. Just take a look at the Skinner box and its resemblance to _Diablo_ and _World of Warcraft._ Take note that both games were highly addictive.

[@SelfProclaimedEmperor]

@@HenriFaust Id argue for most people both factors play into it.

[@B20C0]

@@SelfProclaimedEmperor You are correct, as with any addiction the social component plays a huge role. Missing social connection in the real world gets replaced with fake connection in the addictive material. In video games a real social aspect can also come into play as you interact with other people. People that are really well connected and have meaningful social interaction rarely get addicted to video games (or drugs for that matter).

[@KeithElliott-zd8cx]

honestly this is a good point: like me, im into futurism ish stuff, but i'm less excited about becoming a cyborg or mind uploading as a way to deal with the fear of death like a lot of the people into it, as far as i can tell. nah. i'm interested in elevating the possible experiences with a literal virtual reality experience. what is "real" and what isn't, doesn't necessarily have any value, compared to what you can experience, how you can live your life. like cypher in the matrix, he doesn't care that it's not real. he cares about the qualia, the experience, possible in the matrix, compared to underground rave orgies and eating grey paste or whatever. hell, even star trek, they spend most of their free time dicking around in the holoshed.

[@LeoLFerraz]

Signed: a person who has no idea as to why people play games

[@DolanOk]

I voted to stay plugged in the first poll because I knew what unplugging meant, many people lied and tried to seem virtuous by saying they'd unplug. Mostly everyone would rather stay in their own life currently (even if it's simulated) than go into a cold dangerous world with killer machines after you. They've just watched the Matrix too much and don't know they're the side characters who die if they really unplug.

[@Sniperboy5551]

Yeah, immediately after watching The Matrix, everybody thinks they can be Neo 🤣

[@aazhie]

@@Sniperboy5551 xDD Most of us are about as long-lived as the classic Star Trek "red shirts" in these kind of scenarios! Even IF I somehow was guarenteed to be "the One" it's a miserable existence regardless D:

[@Lynn.-_-.]

I would unplug and get killed instead of living a lie.

[@lovell8983]

@@Lynn.-_-. you do you

[@MilkPudding]

@@Lynn.-_-. You wouldn't be on KZbin if this is true. LOL. All social media platforms are designed exactly for hedonism.

[@nitev4407]

The fact that Kyle is wearing his Basilisk shirt is very appropriate for this video. All hail the Basilisk!!!

[@devinfaux6987]

Nah, the Basilisk can kiss my ass. Just a lame Pascal's Wager knock-off.

[@joekoelker7523]

Heathen! Oll hail the white papah...

[@JeyGore]

Well, that explains why I felt it necessary to state what I did in my post about the basilisk. I hadn't even became consciously aware he was wearing it. Which supports another part of my post. It seems to me it doesn't technically matter if we're in a program or reality, we carry right on along with the flow. I know that things that happen that cannot be rightly, or wrongly, explained make it difficult for me. Like knowing a thing that's about to happen and then verbalize that to someone. More than a handful of times. It makes one feel a little uncomfortable. So many supernatural things have happened to me. Or around me. Would reality really allow for that? If not / so? Why?

[@sierrrrrrrra]

What have you done today to bring Lord Roko into existence?

[@_shadownotes_]

​@@JeyGore I wouldn't say that it doesn't matter... rather that a "program" and "reality" are potentially the same thing. No physical thing is truly real, because it will all be destroyed one day. So the question is, did someone create the "simulation"? And if so, what are you going to do about it?

[@cmd1095]

Having severe depression and an unfulfilling life does skew my thoughts on this experiment rather significantly. I would absolutely unplug or plug in to change my status quo because I don't like the status quo at all. Reality doesn't much matter at all to me if it means I can not deal with the feelings and issues I'm dealing with now. It makes me wonder if additional surveys on this topic with more specific demographics might yield different/interesting results. If you ask people with depression this thought experiment what will the results be? People living in poverty? People living in the upper class? How much does the quality of your current status quo affect your answer? Sure the experiment had the variable of how good life was outside of the simulation, but how well does it factor in how good life is inside it right now? Also what about neurodivergent versus neruotypical people? Would a divergent mind be more inclined towards one answer or another? It feels like this thought experiment can really use some more data and whatnot.

[@rhov-anion]

Just speaking for myself, I grew up feeling like I was a robot living in a world filled with "real" people. At other times, I wondered if I was real but nothing around me was, and I seriously debated with my brother if this was all a video game or holodeck simulation. When "The Matrix" came out, I felt like I was the glitch in the Matrix. Maybe I wasn't fully plugged in. If the simulation was tailored to a neurodivergent mind, it might feel more "real" to me than the world currently around me.

[@theubiquitouspotato]

Definitely in the non typical camp, and my first response is only if I get ago at the character creator this time, no point if I'm stuck with 18 INT and 6 in everything else what's the point? seriously though I think this a type of question a lot of non-typicals think about I asked an apsburgic friend of mine this question and his answer was instant a neurotypical colleague took a lot longer to answer

[@Peppysgirl]

Exactly this honestly. Also, I feel like how much say I get in how my new plugged or unplugged life looks would matter too. If I could plug in and live a life without any of the problems I currently face? Heck yeah, sign me up right now, I'll plug myself in. But if it's up to chance? What if my life is somehow worse? What if the decision takes me from a life I struggle with to, you know, the horribly dangerous robot world of the matrix? Would I really prefer that? But if I was unplugged now and asked, do I want to go back in? Well, can I make several alterations? Status quo doesn't mean much to me, as I'm dissatisfied with my status quo, but the concept of the other side being worse is what my biggest concern would be

[@JB52520]

I would rather just die, but I'm forced to exist. I'm going to be excruciatingly lonely and pathetically poor for the rest of my miserable existence. Every professional who has ever worked with me has either had a nervous breakdown, disappeared, quit their job, or just gave up. There are no more medicines or therapies to try, at least that poor people can afford. If this is a simulation, I will find whoever put me in here and very slowly burn them to death. I only wish I had the strength to take a gun to my head. If unplugging from this hell could set me free, I'd do it in an instant.

[@asdfghwyxn]

@@JB52520 hey JB go on a walk my guy

[@Stratocaster42]

I'm curious how someone's mental health or living situation affects their decision. I wouldn't unplug because I am in a fairly good place in life and feel like I'd miss all the people I care about (even if they're fake NPCs), but there are times I'm sure I would've wanted anything else but this current reality

[@jakeg3126]

Me too..I'd be closer to the probably would unplug, my thing is missing everyone and them missing me. I'm weak and crippled from cancer. Neo knew how shitty life might be. If I knew the alternative and knew I wouldn't be crippled, I'm tempted to say I'd unplug.

[@sierrrrrrrra]

I have chronic pain, depression and anxiety. The society I live in is miserable and oppressive to freedom and happiness. It is a struggle everyday to do basic things, like eat, exercise, clean, etc. I have little to no motivation, even for things I should enjoy. I'm disgusted by people. Humanity is full of greedy liars and betrayers. We piss on the needy and shit on the suffering. I can't trust anyone for a second. I've been fucked with way too much for that. Fuck this life, fuck this world and all the people who make it this way. I R E G R E T M Y B I R T H

[@JamesR624]

It DIRECTLY affects it, but everyone glosses over that because the COMPLETE picture of this would disrespect the cults we call religion that we are trained practically since birth to "respect others' beliefs", disregarding how harmful most of them actually are, mostly because those harmful beliefs are what are used to control most of our society and keep you buying and voting the way the people who have the power, want.

[@davidfreeman1774]

A teacher of mine once made a comment about reality that has always stuck with me. My step dad has some mental issues and believes he "see's" things that aren't real. I asked my teacher how he believes in what he "see's" when everyone else tells him it's not real. "Perception is reality, if you perceive something to be true or real, regardless if it's real or true to others than it is real. What we perceive to be real IS reality. Perception is reality".

[@Ariuss3]

One thing that would be tough for me about being in a simulation is the knowledge that I have a second body or a computer in the "real" world that could be destroyed, or tampered with. A sense of helplessness at not being aware what is going on in the other world, yet your life depends on what is happening to you there, is tough.

[@explodingpineapple7471]

Good point. I feel like in the Matrix this helplessness is especially undesirable because we are told that the physical bodies are floating in small goo tanks, can't move their muscles and are fed a substance that at least partially consists of dead people. The last part feels especially unsettling to me.

[@celadewallace474]

This is fundamentally why a Matrix concept is about power and helplessness rather than merely choosing between realities

[@Light-pl9ti]

We are programmed meat robots inside a Matrix , If you look at the function of all the organs of the body, including the brain, you will find that all the organs of the body have an automatic function, including heart rate, gastrointestinal tract and blood flow, and brain function! Now, if we assume that there is free will and that we are the product of this process, we must be able to explain how, as consciousness, 100 billion neurons interact with each other to produce a thought, in fact no human knows what is going on inside their brain When a thought is produced, the only thing we understand from the thought and what is produced inside our brain is the image and sound that the brain produces, the brain automatically adds our thoughts to our vision! Thinking is like a transparent curtain that adds an extra layer of information to our vision, we see our thoughts but they do not exist in front of us! It is the human ability to see things that do not exist outside of the human body in the Matrix ! The body-mind problem (Illusion of freewill) occurs in the humans when the nervous system get contracted, when this happens the thought process automatically begins to think! And since most people have more or less nervous system contractions, they have this extra thought in mind. ! And in the long run, these thoughts almost become an additional operating system, and it decides for itself and gets the person in trouble! This extra operating system is the same 'I' that everyone has but does not have an external existence. If the nervous system calms down, this extra thought process automatically stops when this 'I' or visual curtain is removed, awareness and Understanding is not of the body, consciousness in the human form it sees itself as somebody and it is separate from the function of the body! The human body is essentially part of nature or simulation, and we experience the world as consciousness through a mediator who is our body! In this simulation, everything is pre-planned, because all human beings are part of the simulation, and in fact, in this simulation, there is really no one, except a consciousness and a running simulation! All thoughts are extra thoughts, because life is a predetermined simulation! People get lost is their own story and this makes different level of consciousness in the societies, and somehow people at some level get stuck or programmed and they live with it, that’s why a small group of people are controlling the most of humans! It’s because of the consciousness level exist between humans ! It’s physical and mental together! The physical part is related to the normal circulation of the a liquid called CSF in the human spine, and it’s mental affect on the human mind and how brain is working! CSF is one Molecule away from sea water, one of its function is to wash the brain and regulate the brain activity! We are living in a time that most people are dealing with some type of muscle or body spasms, and this unbalance the spine, and if this unbalance become so high, the normal circulation of the CSF will decrease, until it could get completely blocked! If this happens somehow human consciousness get disconnected from its source, and start living as a mind story, or locally! This could make lots of mental and physical issues for some people+Repetitive thoughts, or self talking all the time! Bringing back the normal balance of the spine will circulate the CSF normally and thing get changed! For some people this release could be a nerve on their hand, some other body area! Human nervous system is like a tree, and this Stuckness could be at any body part! This complete My Big Toe Theory by Thomas Campbell, and Donald D. Hoffman theories ( consciousness is fundamental)!CSF is the medium for Consciousness to enter the human body and if the normal circulation of CSF get blocked, the brain start working locally and consciousness experience the life as a mind story or a separate I ! Neo

[@Light-pl9ti]

We are programmed meat robots inside a Matrix , If you look at the function of all the organs of the body, including the brain, you will find that all the organs of the body have an automatic function, including heart rate, gastrointestinal tract and blood flow, and brain function! Now, if we assume that there is free will and that we are the product of this process, we must be able to explain how, as consciousness, 100 billion neurons interact with each other to produce a thought, in fact no human knows what is going on inside their brain When a thought is produced, the only thing we understand from the thought and what is produced inside our brain is the image and sound that the brain produces, the brain automatically adds our thoughts to our vision! Thinking is like a transparent curtain that adds an extra layer of information to our vision, we see our thoughts but they do not exist in front of us! It is the human ability to see things that do not exist outside of the human body in the Matrix ! The body-mind problem (Illusion of freewill) occurs in the humans when the nervous system get contracted, when this happens the thought process automatically begins to think! And since most people have more or less nervous system contractions, they have this extra thought in mind. ! And in the long run, these thoughts almost become an additional operating system, and it decides for itself and gets the person in trouble! This extra operating system is the same 'I' that everyone has but does not have an external existence. If the nervous system calms down, this extra thought process automatically stops when this 'I' or visual curtain is removed, awareness and Understanding is not of the body, consciousness in the human form it sees itself as somebody and it is separate from the function of the body! The human body is essentially part of nature or simulation, and we experience the world as consciousness through a mediator who is our body! In this simulation, everything is pre-planned, because all human beings are part of the simulation, and in fact, in this simulation, there is really no one, except a consciousness and a running simulation! All thoughts are extra thoughts, because life is a predetermined simulation! People get lost is their own story and this makes different level of consciousness in the societies, and somehow people at some level get stuck or programmed and they live with it, that’s why a small group of people are controlling the most of humans! It’s because of the consciousness level exist between humans ! It’s physical and mental together! The physical part is related to the normal circulation of the a liquid called CSF in the human spine, and it’s mental affect on the human mind and how brain is working! CSF is one Molecule away from sea water, one of its function is to wash the brain and regulate the brain activity! We are living in a time that most people are dealing with some type of muscle or body spasms, and this unbalance the spine, and if this unbalance become so high, the normal circulation of the CSF will decrease, until it could get completely blocked! If this happens somehow human consciousness get disconnected from its source, and start living as a mind story, or locally! This could make lots of mental and physical issues for some people+Repetitive thoughts, or self talking all the time! Bringing back the normal balance of the spine will circulate the CSF normally and thing get changed! For some people this release could be a nerve on their hand, some other body area! Human nervous system is like a tree, and this Stuckness could be at any body part! This complete My Big Toe Theory by Thomas Campbell, and Donald D. Hoffman theories ( consciousness is fundamental)!CSF is the medium for Consciousness to enter the human body and if the normal circulation of CSF get blocked, the brain start working locally and consciousness experience the life as a mind story or a separate I ! Neo,

[@Xanatrix]

I think there is a facet that is missed with the whole "first version of the Matrix was too perfect and humans kept waking up" scenario; if you have a life of nothing but positive experiences, you have no negative experiences to compare it to, and everything becomes the same. Much like light and darkness both define each other, negative and positive experiences define each other.

[@Johnny_Nitro]

I think the "First Matrix" was an allegory for the Garden of Eden, all-be-it a misunderstand one. Smith said humans are difined by struggle, which is why they could not except paradise. The Garden story is not about rejecting Paradise, but that humans, even the innocent, are vulnerable to temptation. I think the Wachowski's fortune cookie philosophy falls short here also, with the glib observation of Smith and human suffering. I argue that humans would love paradise and actively seek it's continuation.

[@VeritabIlIti]

Really the only way we would be able to figure that out would be if we put infants with absolutely no world experience into the simulation, watched them grow with the paradise world with no knowledge of another one, and then observed whether it was accepted. Claims about inherent suffering in the human experience (thanks Dostoevsky) are really only valid when talking about people who have some socialization to it, because we have never seen a being outside of our own existence.

[@celadewallace474]

@@VeritabIlIti My thoughts exactly

[@User31129]

I think that "desire for negative experiences to compare your experience to" is partly why I watch criminal documentaries here on KZbin. Knowing how badly life can and has gotten for others makes me feel more fortunate about my own situation. And it makes me fret less about minor inconveniences in my life. Many people would be envious of me if they got a Cliffs Notes of my life on paper.

[@Sanquinity]

@@Johnny_Nitro it's been proven that the human mind is very good at adapting to things that make one feel good. If everything I'd made to make you feel good, without any negatives, eventually you'll grow numb to it. It's only because of negative and mundane experiences that we can appreciate the good ones.

[@Dan-Simms]

When I woke up from a week long coma I thought I was waking from the matrix and instantly ripped out all my tubes, IVs and tried (ouch) my catheter...they really should have a large hospital sign posted in the room of coma patients.

[@marcoasturias8520]

Woah! u fine Dan?

[@jakeg3126]

It wouldn't work. It happens instantly and you don't think about it. I think they tied me down or tie most people down if you are in a coma when you aren't aware enough to know or remember wtf is going on. I had a breathing tube in my neck though. It doesn't sound like they slit your throat. I don't know if the knocked me out then slit my throat, or vice versa. I don't know about you, but i don't remember much of the few months prior to that beacuse I had bad amnesia.. hope your ok dude

[@Just1Nora]

Yeah...waking up from anesthesia can be like that sometimes. The first time I had surgery when I woke up I had a legit panic attack and felt like I couldn't breathe. My chest muscles spasmed and I was coughing from having irritation from having the tube down my throat. I had surgery on my sinuses and septum (nose) and my nose was packed full of gauze to stop the bleeding, so that didn't help my breathing situation.

[@Just1Nora]

Ouch...it takes a lot to pull out a Foley catheter. Some people do it though. It'd be funny if there was just a sign over your head, "It's OKAY! This is NOT the Matrix!" 😂 Everyone has different experiences to coming out of a coma. Some it's like waking up from a nap, some people are grouchy and want to go back to sleep, and others are frightened and out of sorts and it takes them anywhere from a few seconds to hours for them to get their bearings, and some have permanent amnesia.

[@jakeg3126]

@@Just1Nora I hated mine. I dont know what month It was that I got sick, but I know I forgot stuff that happened months before I even got sick. It bothers me when people are telling me about stuff I was saying and doing and I have no clue if its made up or not.

[@TheCorpusDelicti]

The thought experiment is much older than Descartes. Plato's allegory of the cave asks the same questions about reality, perception, and authenticity.

[@TomAmit42]

There is a very important factor (that is not discussed in this video) that would greatly impact my decsission to replug into a simulation: The *other people* in my simulation - Are they real like me or are they bots? Because even if the reality itself is fake, if the the people are real and their feelings and thoughts are real, then my relationships with them are also real. To me that is the most important thing. I think I'd be okay with the idea of reality being fake so long as the people and our relationships are real.

[@Nzxtreme]

I think the most important part is the simulation of pure bliss. I can understand why people would not unplug if their bliss is everything they could ever want. Even if being super successful in real life, wouldnt match pure bliss. I guess the situation to unplug comes down to how much people want to earn, value and achieve their goals rather then just be given everything. Personally both options are very tempting, i guess deeper context of each reality is the key decider.

[@dvklaveren]

I like pleasure fine of course, but I fundamentally want to help and learn with other people. People that are real. Not just because it makes life better, but because responsibility is a purpose and a kind of suffering I embrace.

[@qpSubZeroqp]

According to Agent Smith, the first matrix was a disaster because it was bliss and people rejected it because humans define life as suffering unlike other animals

[@Tore_Lund]

@@dvklaveren Isn't that a religious argument? You imply meaning to the natural world, which you claim is absent in a simulation though it would feel the same?

[@Nzxtreme]

@@qpSubZeroqp yeah, and its very likely that would happen in real life as well. Perfect example is the creator of Minecraft. He won at life now he gets no satisfaction. But I do believe given the opportunity most people would still take pure bliss even at the cost of enjoyment and fulfillment. Very interesting discussions to be had about the topic

[@dvklaveren]

@@Tore_Lund No, not really. My idea of responsibility comes more from the philosophy of Emmanuel Levinas and the concept of 'Ex nihilo nihil fit' (nothing comes from nowhere). Emmanuel Levinas talks about the nature of encounters with other beings. We can't choose to not have encounters; They just happen. Once we have such encounters, we are automatically appealed to a more fundamental kind of responsibility, where we can't just do whatever we like. In terms of Albert Camus, even though nothing we do accomplishes anything real and even though we are doomed to the arbitrary ordeal that is life, we should still strive to live that life well. Living well has a lot of different interpretations, but one of those aspects is the Emmanuel Levinas idea that we are compelled with responsibilities we do not choose. Which creates a kind of moral suffering. We cannot take on the burden of that many responsibility, so we suffer in a kind of arbitrary survivor's guilt that we cannot help everyone. Functionally, nothing comes from nothing. Though on a cosmic scale, everything will end, that is so far away its functionally irrelevant to the idea that, true annihilation is really hard ontologically. That is where the idea of eternal recurrence and to some extent, reincarnation in secular terms comes in. Viewed in that light, the idea that we can live and die in a tube simply experiencing emotions, may be interesting, but we side-step responsibility in reality. We make this choice of fundamental irresponsibility. We have an encounter, we realize we live in an absurdist universe, that there is this greater cycle we are a part of and we turn away from it. The idea that the universe begins and dies within a single human experience is called 'solipsism'. You are right, there is no fundamental difference between a solipsist existence in which everything I know is a simulation without me knowing, versus the material world where I don't fundamentally know anything is real. But if someone could definitely prove everything was a simulation (notably including every encounter I've ever had with humans, which is not true in the Matrix), that would be an encounter the moment I was explained that. That encounter compells me with responsibility, whether I like it or not. Whether anyone else accepts that I do not judge. This kind of fundamental responsibility question is not something I pass moral judgement over. Ontologically, it is different and by giving me the choice, I have a responsibility now. I wouldn't know I was alone if I plugged back in, but while I'm not plugged in, I'd know I would be and I crave an ontologically satisfying companionship. And ontologically, an experience machine cannot provide me that. Now, if my experience machine is hooked up with other people's machines? That's different to me. I'd be satisfied with that.

[@Joe___R]

My answer to the original question would be to leave reality. My answer for the reverse would be to leave no matter the info I was given about my real life. I am currently in a hell of constant severe pain, and any other reality would be much better than my current one.

[@neuralmute]

I understand where you're coming from. Chronic pain is the bloody worst and can fuck right off. I'll be leaving this reality alongside you.

[@sierrrrrrrra]

[@_shadownotes_]

What if the next reality is worse pain?

[@infinitesheldon5710]

Watching this video just reminds me of the whole "Purpose" speech we get from Smith in the second Matrix movie. Without purpose, we would not exist. It is purpose that created us. Purpose that connects us. Purpose that pulls us. That guides us. That drives us. It is purpose that defines us. Purpose that binds us. We are here because of you, Mr Anderson. We're here to take from you what you tried to take from us. Purpose.

[@DefinitelyNotaCyberCat]

Reading that gave me a spine chill, I was in my early 20s when the matrix happened, it hit me hard, the movie adaptation fudging the reason the machines created the matrix didn’t matter, everything else about it was incredible.

[@DefinitelyNotaCyberCat]

Did you ever watch the animatrix series? They like shorts elaborating the story, they were really somthing.

[@infinitesheldon5710]

@@DefinitelyNotaCyberCat I remember loving the Animatrix, but it's been years since I watched it

[@rmsgrey]

@@DefinitelyNotaCyberCat Bear in mind that the histories in the Zion mainframe, like everything else in Zion, was planted there by the machines as part of their system - part of the cycle of The One. There's no more reason to believe in their validity than in the accuracy of the claimed current date (insofar as the Gregorian calendar has any meaning in the "Real World").

[@aerynstormcrow]

I’ve thought about this a lot. I think I’d I could set up a fictional universe of my liking with rules and physics that worked the way I wanted them to them I would prefer the “Simulation”. If it was just another version of what we have right now…I’d stay where I am.

[@Veerorith]

Context is everything in these cases. If I'm being asked to unplug, and learn that my life as it stands will be left behind, with my friends and family erased as they were part of a program meant to entertain me, I'd be extremely upset and conflicted, and I may well choose to stay, to stay with that family. If I'm asked to unplug knowing that my friends and family are also real people who can unplug with me, then I would weigh the pros and cons of that life vs the unplugged one, and what one I would be happiest in, as well as if those friends and family would come with me. If asked to plug in, I would only agree if I could take friends and family with me, or they could visit, or I could basically come and go as I please. I think the biggest factor for me is I want to know what is real and a simulation. I don't give a shit which is which in terms of which I live in, but I don't want to forget anything. And I want my friends and family, especially my SO to come with me. I think the weird thing that I hate about this sort of question is its all or nothing. Do you wanna plug in and forget this current life of yours, or do you wanna never ever plug in? What if I want to plug in for an afternoon skydiving without having to hire a big ass plane and actually chuck myself out of it? What if I want to hop on to have a nice dinner with a friend who lives in a different city that I haven't seen a while? I think the ability to come in and out of a virtual world, and hopefully have that world be something you can share with other real people, would be the ideal goal. Basically give me full dive VR type stuff, without the whole 'you are stuck here and can't remember life outside' bullshit. I don't want to lose my memory, because thats part of who I am. I don't want to lose my connections because those are part of who I am. So I want to be able to remember, and come and go as I please essentially. Not in 10 year chunks, but like, a session of an afternoon or something.

[@KoreyThatcher]

Same. If friends and family wanna do it, I’m in. If not, I’m out.

[@dogmaticpyrrhonist543]

I feel it's a similar or same effect as the issue with scam victims being almost immune to evidence they are being scammed. And it varies depending on how invested the person is. Regardless of if it's a good life being simulated, I suspect people will stick with it more if they are invested in that life. How engaging is the personal interactions, and such things that genuinely make people connect.

[@NickRoman]

Yes, that brings up the question of _why_ people would prefer to stick with the status quo. I suppose it has to do with control. If any of those people felt that they would have more control over their lives, would that point to their answer? So, we stick with what we know because knowledge allows us to predict. Prediction gives us a measure of control. If we don't know what is going to happen next at any moment, that could be pretty scary. Bad things could happen and we couldn't stop it.

[@JohnDoe-zj6xf]

Status quo is also applicable in Cults and Religions

[@NickRoman]

@@JohnDoe-zj6xf , yeah, I think it's even more complex than what I said. There is the familiarity thing. Without what we are familiar with, we just don't know how to be. That absolutely applies to religion, culture, etc. Spend some time living in a foreign country where you have a hard time even speaking to people or reading signs. See how that feels.

[@IN-tm8mw]

@@JohnDoe-zj6xf The Status Quo on a larger scale is what most define as "Peaceful Times." because conflict like "uprisings, rebellions and war" change it. People feel like they lose control over their lives. Those who can't change the Status Quo turned into separatists and formed their own nations and cultural norms.

[@xan0075]

I feel that this isn't that different from choosing to continue playing a video game you like or stopping the game to take care of yourself and your life. But to a glorified scale.

[@kevinscales]

The difference being that you have a need to take care of yourself outside of the game that you feel even when playing. If you stopped having any of those feelings about needing things in the real world and had no memory or understanding of the real world, it would be very hard to suddenly start caring about it more than the world that you are familiar with and all of your experiences so far are in relation to.

[@jeralwood6290]

Kyle always brings pretty interesting insightful views to the table, great video!

[@chrisreilly1290]

This simulation machine idea, unplugging or staying in based off of what your life is like outside the machine, it reminded me of something and it took a few minutes for me to remember what it reminded me of. It actually reminded me of the guy in the Avatar movie who joined and defended the Navi. Outside his avatar body, he is crippled and his brother is dead. In the avatar body he can walk, found love, and has a familial bond to the tribe. Even if what the humans were doing was not wrong, who's to say he wouldn't stay in his avatar body given the choice?

[@Johnrich395]

Here’s the other interesting thing, Neo never leaves the Matrix. “Reality” is just a gritty grim-dark matrix, that’s why Neo’s powers work outside of “The Matrix”. The punchline is that “reality vs. simulation” doesn’t matter, indeed it never did.

[@specialedition3585]

The actual reason why he has powers outside the matrix is that he was DESIGNED to be more than human. That’s why he’s different than previous “ones.” That’s why he could do things previous “ones” couldn’t do. He was designed from the start by the oracle to be a physically different body that has the ability to enact actual change. Everything that happens in the matrix is basically at the whim of the oracle because she hated the way the current system had been like for thousands of years.

[@Myzelfa]

That's a reasonable take from the films, but it's not the canonical reason.

[@Jonjs99]

@@specialedition3585 Neo is not the ONE! And he was never been outside of matrix

[@seanvinsick]

I loved this video, it balanced philosophy and science soo well. A point missed that you skimmed a bit, but was a central point in the movies is choice and control. Its not about reality, its about choice. Most of us would unplug because the simulation is control, or rather something we don't have control of. When you introduce the element of choice the simulation goes from slavery to a lifestyle choice. The sequels movie made the idea of the one and the prophecy a system of control and false choice. Would you choose to plug in if you could never unplug versus being able to disconnect whenever you wanted. The reverse disconnect bias is affected as soon as you are given the choice. Change the parameters slightly. You can disconnect and never be able to connect again, or you can disconnect and reconnect again. Other reasons that affect your choice to disconnect would be whether you voluntarily chose to connect in the first place. Clearly if you connected and chose to connect then there was good reason. If you didn't have choice and someone else was forcing you to connect there must be a reason. The matrix was a prison for humanity. There was no choice. Adding choice was the key factor that made it work. Here's a third parameter to add, have no information, and tell people they're not allowed to disconnect and the system is actively working against them to keep them in the simulation. However there is this onetime chance. How does that affect it? We must also consider the current mental state of the person being asked. Are they having a terrible experience in life, or is there contentment. Living in poverty or illness will likely change the the answers. There is always a hesitation that your choice will make things regardless of what you're being told. We can't make make life altering choices based on a single binary decision such as you're rich or you're in prison. There is also a believability factor. If I'm a famous artist outside the simulation, why do I not have any artistic ability in the simulation? If my life was so great, why did I plug in. I think another curveball to all of this is the terminal disease. Would you plug in if on your deathbed. Then the choice is experience versus nothingness. I like how show upload explored this. In that show, you were aware of the simulation and could evennl communicate with those outside the simulation, but there was no going back. This then leads to more questions that may affect your decision. How does age affect this? If you lived a full life, versus you're life is just beginning. Another interesting thought experiment is, what if you aren't living in a simulation, but are the simulation, ie you're an npc. what does it mean to be artifical. Rarely do we ever see this hashed out in fiction. Usually it's a scenario where the AI just accepts it. Free guy came close. What if you found out you're a simulated being, but can now leave the construct and be uploaded to a host body that would look exactly like you?

[@Joely3912]

Dude… this is wild. Nailed every point I was thinking in one comment

[@ironfistorganics8854]

They just did that in Free Guy. A good exploration of the NPC effect, or whatever it was called lol.

[@michaelsnydermusic]

Interesting because in the new Matrix they discuss your last point with new new program Morpheus. He was AI but had the inherent traits of the original maverick who was Morpheus. He was able to manifest outside the simulation. I actually really enjoyed film because of these details. I just wish they spent a bit more time on the kung fu looking more real.

[@cruros9084]

I know my answer because I experienced a "version" of the simulation thought experiment. This was in the format of D&D and other fantasy roleplay, where you immerse yourself into a character and assume a role and interact with other people in their assumed roles. While the experiences of fighting monsters or walking around a fantastical city are entirely fake, the emotional experiences that you feel are very real. That is why I'd accept the arguement that there isn't an objective truth that matters to the human mind; rather, it is the emotions that your perception yields which are real.

[@dvklaveren]

Same with the modification that I know that I'm sharing these real experiences with real people. It's legitimately how I hope to spend my retirement days. It's weird to think that the idea of playing Dungeons and Dragons your whole life with friends and never so anything "real" would be terrifying to some people in a different time and culture.

[@inkmcsquiddin2034]

@@dvklaveren You don't know if you're sharing real experiences with real people ever. We all hope we are but there's nothing that says my wife and kids are real, just a lot of chemicals pumping around my brain making me feel things; those chemicals could be coming from anywhere...

[@dvklaveren]

@@inkmcsquiddin2034 Unless anything happens that conclusively shows my current life is just a simulation, I will strive to live my life as I currently do. It's simple as that.

[@travcollier]

@@inkmcsquiddin2034 Everything is just inference based models. Weird how so many people just find that fact too terrifying to even entertain. One can't know ultimate reality any more than one can absolutely prove a scientific theory.

[@inkmcsquiddin2034]

@@dvklaveren That is sound reasoning.

[@Dreagostini]

I just like the people who try to convince others THAT we're living in a simulation and how they start to stumble if you ask them what difference does it make.

[@yamiyugi2894]

They just want to sound smart

[@Andrew-zq3ip]

Do they stumble? I kind of think that's the point of the theory.

[@RedactedcommentMan]

Things that never happened for 1000, Alex

[@azerdraco3146]

So what difference DOES it make? If a simulation were to mirror reality down to the smallest detail, would there be any difference between your experience in the simulation vs reality?

[@wiredoge6778]

@@azerdraco3146 Everything you've done is void because it didn't actually happen.

[@danieljensen2626]

If the choice isn't permanent I totally want to try the opposite experience regardless of what it's like.

[@Jessie_Helms]

I voted in the poll and said yes, I’d stay plugged in, but only if I could forget the momentary unplug. If I had an unbroken stream of consciousness I couldn’t go back, I wouldn’t be able to handle it, no matter how much better it was.

[@dannyjensen3960]

Hey Kyle I’ve been following you for a few years now and I must say you are amazing You are one of the few people who have inspired me to take my life seriously and get an education and I’m currently 2 years in to become an electroingenieria so What I’m trying to say is thank you and I hope you have an amazing day Best regards Danny

[@scattergun]

Kyle posts the goofiest memes on the Community tab, and then proceeds to drop these absolute banger videos. I think he's trying to collapse the KZbin algorithm...

[@AlkisGD]

I've been thinking about this ever since I saw that scene with Cipher decades ago. The crazy part is that after I learned about reframing and reversal and the status quo bias, I can _feel_ it no matter the direction: I wouldn't leave _this_ life with my friends, family, etc. regardless of whether it's real or a sim. This is my status quo and I don't wanna lose it. P.S.: Even if this life is a sim, it's still consistent and there are no hacks. You can't bring loved ones back from the dead and you can't load a previous save file to get a second chance at making a relationship work. You can still end up homeless, an addict, in prison, even all three. That's why I don't care if we're in a university's simulation of past historical events, a simulated reality show, or a SIMs game on a teenager's 300 qbit quantum computer.

[@duellinksantimeta7636]

Losing your family, which feels real, was realy the plug in move for me. If you think about it. Your children would also be "fake" and still feel so real. You saw them growing up...

[@AlkisGD]

@@duellinksantimeta7636 - Yup. Humans get attached to their D&D characters, vidya characters, virtual pets, etc. despite being aware they're unrealistic constructs. Even if you wake up one day to find out your friends and family are constructs, you can't just ignore years of bonding, especially when these people are indistinguishable from real ones.

[@AnnoyingMoose]

In the world of the Matrix movies "where the sun don't shine" is EVERYWHERE ON EARTH!

[@benmcreynolds8581]

That bliss machine reminded me of how Rick created that Bliss experience in Rick & Morty. My favorite parts of that show was how it initially made me ask myself internal questions about my human experience and limitations.

[@Scienceguy721]

Can I ask why not both? In a simulation we could cram a lifetime's worth of skill and when we wake up we could apply those skills however we want.

[@lingua-voxservitor8012]

You mean like waking up at the age of 10, knowing everything we learned in the life before, being shaken that nothing is real, if this is real, being shaken from surviving your own death. Probably just to be thrown into a war because why would anyone do that if he did not have to?

[@mrhat1073]

only thing that would suck would be going in, finding out it sucks, and then stuck there for awhile

[@Scienceguy721]

@@lingua-voxservitor8012 I was thinking more of going in around college age and speed running different careers in like half an hour Total Recall style.

[@DJCrisisUK]

@Luis, I'm kinda confused at what you're asking, are you trying to imply that here and now we could jump into a simulation and learn skills, or are you talking within the Matrix universe? If you mean in this real world then I'm very worried you would even ask that type of question.

[@Scienceguy721]

@@DJCrisisUK I'm talking about if matrix tech did exist in our world could we just use it to where you could plug in and go through your entire college years in a short period of time. And only that. I know this kind of tech doesn't exist but I think it is kind of interesting to about if this tech did exist could we use it speed run through certain skill sets.

[@creepergaming7926]

So glad Kyle is smashing it on his own, wish he'd post more though

[@WhompingWalrus]

@@Ktr-1142-ema tbh homie could read a script to the camera with a $0 post-prod budget and I'd tune in. He knows that though. Talked to Adam Savage about it, lol.

[@ThatBillmanGuy]

I'm glad he's rocking his Thor haircut again.

[@escheewloo]

Can we please just let *that company* fade into obscurity? I don't see them in my recommended feed anymore and I like it that way

[@FireRed-ie9cr]

@@escheewloo wait what

[@azerdraco3146]

@@FireRed-ie9cr We don't talk about time Pre-Facility. Trust me, it was a dark time.

[@AsTheStormRises]

I'm thankful that my answers don't change provided I have the same information with which to decide; if I know what in vs out is for both directions of the question, then my answer is consistent and based on a comparison of the two. There's a Black Mirror episode I think that going over could be a really great expansion to this episode and expand into the philosophy of death and after-death; and if I had the chance to plug into that kind of thing right this moment, I would do it. And I'm not gonna lie - a HUGE part of my decision comes from being *disabled*. If I could live without disability and chronic illness inhibiting my enjoyment of life and my surroundings, then without a moment of hesitation, I would choose that.

[@SharmClucas]

Same for the same reasons. My relationships are the only thing of value in this broken life of mine.

[@CSpottsGaming]

I'd love to see a version of the experiment that controls for an individual's level of risk aversion. I'm studying finance and one of the things we learn is that people are usually very risk averse. I wonder how much that plays into the idea of Status Quo Bias and whether people who are less risk averse would be more likely to unplug (or less likely to continue). Even when you know certain things about your life (your level of wealth, for instance) outside the simulation you are taking a risk when you choose to unplug. In that same vein, people exposed to toxoplasma gondii (a parasite that many people get from their cat) are shown to be more risky (greater likelihood of engaging in risk-taking behaviors like riding a motorcycle, more likely to be entrepreneurs, etc.) and I wonder what the results would look like in that situation.

[@enjyn09]

A hunter is a hunter, even in a dream.

[@tattoomaniacsalina]

One thing I never hear: What if this is a simulation, but the world where this is being simulated from is "different" than our world. i.e.- Maybe we don't have physical bodies and all this "physical" stuff is just an experiment that's part of the "simulation". Also what if the "simulation" isn't being run in some kind of computer like we'd think? What if it's just a built-in part of a bigger reality? I think we need to reevaluate the more fringe parts of the definition of what constitutes a "simulation" vs reality being built in layers in a way that we don't understand yet.

[@alainzscheile6913]

I think it would also be interesting to compare the simulation or reality to the kind of the kind of world represented in e.g. "World of Darkness" (TTRPG), where Mages have the ability to alter the world, and that the perceived reality is just a consensus, but can get altered by consensus changes, which can include (for us) fundamental natural laws ( so that the set of actual natural laws is smaller than expected). So I would propose an alternative reality as example alternative, where one can't escape it, but with the knowledge that it can be altered basically via aggressive marketing or cults or such. imo would be interesting.

[@DoctorProph3t]

Architect told us the paradox of the thought experiment; choice. I apologise to quote the movie directly but, the problem is choice. A person needs to be given the choice, even if they’re only aware of that choice on a subconscious level, otherwise they reject whatever reality is shown to them, simulated or actual.

[@SenhorAlien]

Idk bro, no one has any choice in our reality, and yet it seems people accept it.

[@Vivi2372]

@@SenhorAlien I assure you some of us do not. But then I also can't separate anything in the matrix films from the fact that they're trans allegory. And in that sense I've already chosen to unplug by coming out as trans and socially and medically transition.

[@ErebosGR]

@@SenhorAlien Because what matters is not freedom of choice, but only the perception of it.

[@DoctorProph3t]

@@SenhorAlien that’s the thing about subconscious choices. You’ve already made them and you’re unaware of them. You make a thousand choices every day without realising. The choice to go to work. The choice to eat. The choice to wear a tie. To take out the garbage. But as long as you’re only aware of the choice on a fundamental level of consequence, you accept the choices you made. You may find that in your waking consciousness that you detest or disagree with those choices you were unaware of, but accepted them for so long because you never had reason to look deeper. To live in a reality of consequence, failing to realise it is action that is the driving force in the universe, that reactions are the real, consequence is reality, is to live without being able to see passed any choices, let alone your own.

[@SenhorAlien]

@@DoctorProph3t yeah, it's pretty obvious that people "make choices" all the time, subconsciously. I'd argue anyone who watches this kind of video is already aware of what you said. My point is that no one has a choice, conscious or subconscious, and yet most people accept it without a problem.

[@weiserwolf580]

now I wonder how much it would cost to maintain a logistics operation for a machine that simulates (like Matrix) I think it would be a logistical nightmare

[@inteallsviktigt]

Well shouldn’t be that harder than any cloud service you use today or multiplayer game

[@SGxShadow]

Check out his episode about a planet computer. The TD,DW of it is if the planet of Jupiter was an AI computer, it would be able to simulate this reality and all realities within milliseconds and as real as it feels right now.

[@weiserwolf580]

@@SGxShadow I think you realize that in this world nothing is done without profit, it doesn't make much sense to build a Jupiter brain just because some hairless monkeys want to live in a simulation, and even those primates will not cooperate to make this possible, people are arguing over extremely small things, I doubt there will ever be cooperation

[@weiserwolf580]

@@inteallsviktigt and who pays for it?

[@inteallsviktigt]

@@weiserwolf580 the customer inside the machine. Computing power and server rooms are extremely cheap to run when it’s all built

[@HristoKolevMayvena]

A great topic. I can answer for myself. However there's one catch - if I were asked those questions 15 years ago, I'd answer quite differently. And the reason is that my life changed drastically during this period and by changing, my priorities changed as well. So, the past me - a just-graduated poor guy would answer that he'd prefer reality in both scenarios. The thing is that back then I had no ties to this world and if I were told it is fake and I can unplug, I'd consider it an adventure that is worth taking. If offered to be plugged in instead - I'd consider it a betrayal of my nature, so I'd decline. However present me - a married man with a successful career, family, kid, mortgage etc... Well, unpluging would mean I'd abandon all my responsibilities - my loving wife, my daughter, my work projects that I've invested countless hours into... Maybe they are fake, or maybe they do exist as others who are plugged in - in both cases I love them and couldn't abandon them for any reason. Same logic goes for plugging in - I'd be abandoning all to experience a personal pleasure. I'm not that selfish.

[@_shadownotes_]

Besides... You'd escape the simulation when you die anyways. Unplugging in a way is the same as suicide.

[@warycrow4130]

I had the experience machine thought experiment presented to me when I was a teenager and I used to say I wouldn't plug in. However after a few years I have come to realize I was only giving a knee jerk reaction. Now I truly dont know whether or not I'd prefer the machine or "reality". I know they are not the same situations, but one of the big problems for me was reconciling my reaction to the thought experiment with my feelings on video game experiences. I am in my mid twenties now and a few years ago I had a moment in which I questioned whether or not the experiences I went through in a video game was any less real than in real life. One of the worst offenders was a moment in valkyria chronicles, a character died and I was genuinely moved to tears from this, even though they were nothing more than 1s and 0s with scripted personalities and behaviors I still felt a genuine connection to, and empathy for them. A real emotion from an "unreal experience" doesnt make sense, and yet it happens all time even if it's from 1s and 0s, letters on a page, or moving images and audible sounds on a screen. I consider myself a soft determinist and physicalist, so aren't I also just a programmed set of beliefs and values formed from personal experiences and learned information coded in chemical chains in my brain rather than binary? If that's the case then surely I'm no more real then they are simply becuase our forms are drastically different right? The only real difference I suppose is that I can learn and grow, change and evolve where as they stay the same. However a true experience machine would surely be able to simulate the same change no? I dont know, may never know but it definitely is something I think about and really appreciate your delving into as I believe it's an important question to ask ourselves even if there is no true answer. Also I apologize for my poor grammar and spelling and love the video nice work!

[@O4C209]

I think there is a level of trust/ independence/survivalist that explains the results. Do you trust being safe in a Pod, with your reality being simulated by some all powerful computer? Or do you want to handle your own life and be responsible for your survival? I would not be surprised if the responses correlated with trust/distrust of authority.

[@garethbaus5471]

That seems extremely likely, makes me wonder if there is data on that.

[@inkmcsquiddin2034]

This is a little messed up but you are in a pod being controlled by a computer, yeah it's your brain but you have no control over how it behaves. Think about where any of your thoughts come from, any of your feelings, these are just things your brain decides should happen and you don't get a say in it.

[@Imbalanxd]

what if unplugging kills you instantly? I feel like that would be the most likely result.

[@BombaJead]

@@inkmcsquiddin2034 not with that attitude XD. But in any case even though we know more about the brain than ever before there is still a lot to learn, and the more we know the more control we'll have over it.

[@thecianinator]

I just want my life to have the maximum potential for impact on the world. Like, if I could unplug from the matrix and fight the good fight for the freedom of the human race, I would. But if unplugging from the matrix would cripple me, or just put me into a situation where I was equally helpless, I'd probably stay in. At least I could form real relationships with others and create real art that people could enjoy.

[@AtTheBenchtop]

Ah, such an emotional decision (and great video)! For me, I think I would go for whatever I perceived as reality. Even if I was emotionally attached to the characters in the simulation, I would feel immediately disconnected if I found out that was manufactured. The knowledge of it being inauthentic is what ruins the simulation and therefore would dictate my choice.

[@Dantick09]

But you don't keep the knowledge, the blue pill makes you ignorant again thinking the simulation is reality. Hence "ignorance is bliss" choose to forget reality not simply ignore it

[@AtTheBenchtop]

@@Dantick09 Hmmm, good point. But you become aware during the decision so I would still choose the real thing during the decision making process even if it meant they could wipe my memory of the decision. That could change since the life I've lived has caused me to value authenticity so there is that bias. In another life, who knows, I might have chosen differently but that's a whole other conversation.

[@xMckingwill]

@@AtTheBenchtop now the question why would the interactions in the real world be any less " inauthentic" as how much of the circumstance do you actually control that allowed you to meet your friends or the family you were born into?

[@AtTheBenchtop]

@@xMckingwill Again, good point! But there is a level of beauty in randomness that would be missing from my manufactured perfect life. One could make an algorithm that could provide randomness for my simulated life too, I suppose, which by my previous logic would mean I should be just as enamored with that alternative. However, that's still the influence of another and maybe my inclination against "inauthenticity" is birth out of a desire to remove someone else's control over my life even if that means I have no control either. It's an interesting topic to think about but maybe starts to fall outside the scope of this specific video.

[@travcollier]

Ugh... I hated the "blue pill" thing. I'd go for the simulation, but I would also want to know it is a simulation... Well, more precisely a bit about how that one simulation works vs the "reality" simulation. Everything you know is just a probably approximately correct model. That is the only grounding for anything we have available. "Reality" is a lot less of a firm thing than most people, probably any people, can really wrap their brains around. So, yeah, give me the simulation, let me know it is a simulation, and I'll do the same things I would do in "reality" anyways.

[@dawsonjosiahwilliams]

Me and my friends use to stay up all night trying to ask these questions to one another. Really cool video thanks Kyle!

[@chrisconley8583]

Pretty simple, people saying “I identify as…” are really saying “I am making believe that I am a…” it’s all to escape a reality they don’t like.

[@thefishking7582]

If I was suddenly awoken in a chair and told that my life up to this point has been a simulation, I wouldn't believe the person telling me and would not trust a thing that person says. They would have a very difficult time getting me to answer any question, much less getting me to decide if I want to unplug. Why would I ever trust somebody in that situation?

[@Undeciti]

I propose the matrix paradox. In your poll most said unplug because they'd rather live in reality. Well what if what they think is reality is actually the simulation, so they want to keep living in what they think is reality but isn't. That means they'd want to unplug not realizing that the "reality" they want to live in isn't reality.

[@rambysophistry1220]

Honestly, my stance is this; objective reality, as far as we can tell it being objective reality, has a 'goodness' value that is infinite. Regardless of whether I was plugged into the machine already, or were offered to be plugged into one, my answer is; leave me in as close to the objective world as physically possible, thank you. It is morally good that we ought struggle, strive and thrive in the real world, regardless of the costs, simply because it puts us closer to knowing that objective reality.

[@tamegaming1768]

I love your channel man. Some of the most thought provoking topics covered by your great narration and direction.

[@James-vc2xs]

I think the choice also depends on the exact parameters of the simulation as well. Like you might be much more inclined to say yes to "plugging in" if you had ultimate say over what you'll get inside the system. I, for example, would choose to be a being akin to "Q" from Star Trek because I think that'd be super fun. So yea, I'd jack in in a heartbeat as long as I get access to the console commands.

[@alwayshathbeen3340]

NGL bro, The Matrix really threw me for a loop as a teenager, and the thought has stuck ever since. I don't think it matters to me what "reality" is, so much as I'd like to know what "reality" isn't. Sometimes I feel like we're supposed to figure out and define what reality really is, and that there are clues or breadcrumbs littered all about but we just haven't put them together yet. If I were given the option of "unplugging" I don't think I would. I think I would assume that outside of this "reality" I had made a conscious decision to "plug in" and live this "reality". I would like to think I could trust myself outside of this experience.

[@Sokail87]

On a similar line of reasoning as per what the Matrix dealt with etc, I remember watching a lecture by Slavoj Zizek where he claimed that conscience arises at the moment of negation of will, not acceptance. So, rather than asking whether reality is of importance of not, maybe we should be asking whether conscience can be simulated. This negation can be realized as a doubt on whether what we experience is truly in accordance with our own will or not, even as a doubt on whether it is real or not. And we do experience that moment as a moment of realization, of clarity, or perhaps even a glimpse into nirvana. Us being truly conscious of our existence within the framework that we are set to function until that particular point in time. Now, if conscience can be simulated as an experience we may be doomed, even though there may yet be hope in the power of negation of the experience.

[@dmkatelyn]

If given the ability to decide my place in the program, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I have a disability, I'm blind, and though I'm adapted to it I would still love to see the world like other people. To know what a sign says from twenty feet away. And that's just blindness. I can imagine how liberating a simulation would be to people with more serious disabilities, or the transgender community, or those with degenerative conditions. If the argument for reality is The Matrix, the Black Mirror episode San Junipero makes the argument for the simulation, allowing people who aren't themselves in reality to live a life in the digital world. Plug me in. Let me see. Ignorance is bliss.

[@steffenrumpel2784]

Your case is a strong status quo bias. Under these circumstances I can understand that you would be willing to let go of reality. However, and since the real question is how much you care about reality, you should ask yourself a modified question: Assumed you were given the choice (1) between implants or transplants which would allow you to see, or (2) a life in a simulated world, then which would you choose? Thinking of Stephen Hawking, one can only imagine what we could have learned from him, if it had been possible to communicate with him "the normal way" using a simulated world. However, the follow up question would then be, if he would have accomplished what he did accomplish, if he hadn't been trapped inside his body? I believe that his disability did contribute to his genious.

[@dmkatelyn]

I would probably still prefer the simulation. I admit my overall fondness for reality isn't very high to begin with even regardless of my disability, but more importantly the simulated world would give me a chance to live life from the start being whole. I could take part in the things I missed. I might not fully appreciate them not knowing this life, but I think, ultimately, that's better. We tend to glorify overcoming challenges, but having had a fair few I can say there's a lot of appeal in a do-over on a different difficulty setting. It might be fair to say that's a character flaw, that I should want to overcome challenges. But I'm certain my life is less fulfilling that a simulation of a more... optimized me. At the end of the day, I wouldn't know what I was doing didn't impact others. But in a system like The Matrix or San Junipero it actually still would! Those simulations are "multiplayer," so I don't see a difference between helping other living beings in virtual or material space. They are alive either way, and they live in that world. Why would doing good work there have less meaning to me?

[@Light-pl9ti]

We are programmed meat robots inside a Matrix , If you look at the function of all the organs of the body, including the brain, you will find that all the organs of the body have an automatic function, including heart rate, gastrointestinal tract and blood flow, and brain function! Now, if we assume that there is free will and that we are the product of this process, we must be able to explain how, as consciousness, 100 billion neurons interact with each other to produce a thought, in fact no human knows what is going on inside their brain When a thought is produced, the only thing we understand from the thought and what is produced inside our brain is the image and sound that the brain produces, the brain automatically adds our thoughts to our vision! Thinking is like a transparent curtain that adds an extra layer of information to our vision, we see our thoughts but they do not exist in front of us! It is the human ability to see things that do not exist outside of the human body in the Matrix ! The body-mind problem (Illusion of freewill) occurs in the humans when the nervous system get contracted, when this happens the thought process automatically begins to think! And since most people have more or less nervous system contractions, they have this extra thought in mind. ! And in the long run, these thoughts almost become an additional operating system, and it decides for itself and gets the person in trouble! This extra operating system is the same 'I' that everyone has but does not have an external existence. If the nervous system calms down, this extra thought process automatically stops when this 'I' or visual curtain is removed, awareness and Understanding is not of the body, consciousness in the human form it sees itself as somebody and it is separate from the function of the body! The human body is essentially part of nature or simulation, and we experience the world as consciousness through a mediator who is our body! In this simulation, everything is pre-planned, because all human beings are part of the simulation, and in fact, in this simulation, there is really no one, except a consciousness and a running simulation! All thoughts are extra thoughts, because life is a predetermined simulation! People get lost is their own story and this makes different level of consciousness in the societies, and somehow people at some level get stuck or programmed and they live with it, that’s why a small group of people are controlling the most of humans! It’s because of the consciousness level exist between humans ! It’s physical and mental together! The physical part is related to the normal circulation of the a liquid called CSF in the human spine, and it’s mental affect on the human mind and how brain is working! CSF is one Molecule away from sea water, one of its function is to wash the brain and regulate the brain activity! We are living in a time that most people are dealing with some type of muscle or body spasms, and this unbalance the spine, and if this unbalance become so high, the normal circulation of the CSF will decrease, until it could get completely blocked! If this happens somehow human consciousness get disconnected from its source, and start living as a mind story, or locally! This could make lots of mental and physical issues for some people+Repetitive thoughts, or self talking all the time! Bringing back the normal balance of the spine will circulate the CSF normally and thing get changed! For some people this release could be a nerve on their hand, some other body area! Human nervous system is like a tree, and this Stuckness could be at any body part! This complete My Big Toe Theory by Thomas Campbell, and Donald D. Hoffman theories ( consciousness is fundamental)!CSF is the medium for Consciousness to enter the human body and if the normal circulation of CSF get blocked, the brain start working locally and consciousness experience the life as a mind story or a separate I ! Neo

[@Light-pl9ti]

We are programmed meat robots inside a Matrix , If you look at the function of all the organs of the body, including the brain, you will find that all the organs of the body have an automatic function, including heart rate, gastrointestinal tract and blood flow, and brain function! Now, if we assume that there is free will and that we are the product of this process, we must be able to explain how, as consciousness, 100 billion neurons interact with each other to produce a thought, in fact no human knows what is going on inside their brain When a thought is produced, the only thing we understand from the thought and what is produced inside our brain is the image and sound that the brain produces, the brain automatically adds our thoughts to our vision! Thinking is like a transparent curtain that adds an extra layer of information to our vision, we see our thoughts but they do not exist in front of us! It is the human ability to see things that do not exist outside of the human body in the Matrix ! The body-mind problem (Illusion of freewill) occurs in the humans when the nervous system get contracted, when this happens the thought process automatically begins to think! And since most people have more or less nervous system contractions, they have this extra thought in mind. ! And in the long run, these thoughts almost become an additional operating system, and it decides for itself and gets the person in trouble! This extra operating system is the same 'I' that everyone has but does not have an external existence. If the nervous system calms down, this extra thought process automatically stops when this 'I' or visual curtain is removed, awareness and Understanding is not of the body, consciousness in the human form it sees itself as somebody and it is separate from the function of the body! The human body is essentially part of nature or simulation, and we experience the world as consciousness through a mediator who is our body! In this simulation, everything is pre-planned, because all human beings are part of the simulation, and in fact, in this simulation, there is really no one, except a consciousness and a running simulation! All thoughts are extra thoughts, because life is a predetermined simulation! People get lost is their own story and this makes different level of consciousness in the societies, and somehow people at some level get stuck or programmed and they live with it, that’s why a small group of people are controlling the most of humans! It’s because of the consciousness level exist between humans ! It’s physical and mental together! The physical part is related to the normal circulation of the a liquid called CSF in the human spine, and it’s mental affect on the human mind and how brain is working! CSF is one Molecule away from sea water, one of its function is to wash the brain and regulate the brain activity! We are living in a time that most people are dealing with some type of muscle or body spasms, and this unbalance the spine, and if this unbalance become so high, the normal circulation of the CSF will decrease, until it could get completely blocked! If this happens somehow human consciousness get disconnected from its source, and start living as a mind story, or locally! This could make lots of mental and physical issues for some people+Repetitive thoughts, or self talking all the time! Bringing back the normal balance of the spine will circulate the CSF normally and thing get changed! For some people this release could be a nerve on their hand, some other body area! Human nervous system is like a tree, and this Stuckness could be at any body part! This complete My Big Toe Theory by Thomas Campbell, and Donald D. Hoffman theories ( consciousness is fundamental)!CSF is the medium for Consciousness to enter the human body and if the normal circulation of CSF get blocked, the brain start working locally and consciousness experience the life as a mind story or a separate I ! Neo,

[@davidelzinga9757]

Well, eventually we’re going to have a real world experience with this whole metaverse thing

[@dvklaveren]

It's weird. I spend most of my life roleplaying and making art to escape from reality, but I do it with other people. I don't care about reality, but I care about people. And since people in the Matrix are real, whether they're programs or people, I'd of course prefer that over some struggle for some idea of reality that seems somehow more fake to me. You could do a descent genre deconstruction where Morpheus is the villain, because Morpheus spends a whole lot of time 'working' Neo. You could very well make the argument that Morpheus, with all the best intentions, is actually a cultleader brainwashing people to join a resistance against nothing substantially more meaningful.

[@jumpander]

Making your own reality is not necessarily escaping *the* reality.

[@BombaJead]

I am an artist aswell, and I like playing videogames but my views on life suggest that I would choose whatever is trully real as it would also bring more meaning to the experiences I had in the simulation. I personally apreciate dreams and nightmares more when I wake up from them and can reflect about them.

[@thecianinator]

2 and 3 were almost like that. Morpheus wasn't a villain, but he was a stooge. The big reveal is that the cause Morpheus thought he was fighting for was a lie, "The One" was just a carrot of false hope dangled in front of him by the machines, and Neo and Trinity's "destined" love was just The Oracle playing matchmaker in a really manipulative way.

[@hasanmuttaqin464]

@@BombaJead define real

[@brycelynch2138]

0:40 - Entirely too much leather in there? No such thing.

[@KuruGDI]

If you ever tried to stood up at your workplace for a change that you consider a positive one you experience how much a bliss ignorance can be! 😐😫

[@trixrabbit8792]

So here’s my question for you. Where does the use of mind altering drugs fall into this thought experience? There have been countless people who have not only used such drugs recreationally, but thrown their lives away to try to remain in their altered reality. Were any of them polled in these studies?

[@sirfrancis8732]

I feel like it would pose an issue because many of those drugs are by nature heavily addictive, and thus it would unfairly skew the answers towards staying in vs. if we had an actual way to simulate a different reality that worked without fundamentally altering the chemistry of a person's brain for the worse.

[@judgeomega]

'thrown their lives away' is a very biased view point. who are you to judge how another should live their life and what they should value? it would be hypocritical of you to impose your expectations on another while at the same time denying that others shouldnt do the same to you.

[@Dunny261]

I'd say that I would unplug from a simulation if I was in it from my perceived birth, as I would be curious as to the world outside. If I could choose to plug into a hedonistic simulation from the reality I'm currently in I would 100% do so. I would be disappointed if my current reality was considered "an experience machine" cus I don't feel that experienced 🤣

[@SenhorAlien]

Maybe, but if you live a lifetime, then another, then a hundred more, and at the end of it all the memories were combined, that would be a pretty hardcore experience machine.

[@Dunny261]

I''d rather the memories be combined from the get go, there's no use in living all these lives to then have them all plow into my brain all at once and I could use those previous experiences to inform my future decisions

[@SenhorAlien]

@@Dunny261 yeaaah, but that's cheating :/ imagine having hundreds, maybe thousands of years of experience and knowledge when you're just 2 years old. Especially if you can die and be reborn in the same era; you'd advance technology by leaps and bounds all by your lonesome.

[@davidmoore1253]

In addition to what other comments have said about relationships, my other concern with living in a simulation is: how do I defend my own interests if I don't know what's real? Someone or something could harm me in the real world and that might affect or destroy my simulation. My favourite take on The Matrix is that the "real" world of war between humans and machines is actually also a simulation, and Morpheus is really an AI routine designed to help humans dissatisfied with the main simulation by taking them to a different one. In this interpretation, the machines are actually benign, trying to give humans happy lives when real-world conditions make it impossible to find happiness except by escaping reality.

[@DakalaShade]

You know, I like that theory. If the machines are benign, or mostly so (using biochemical energy for power, but providing a very authentic simulated experience in return), and discover someone is becoming dissatisfied with the main simulation, they send Morpheus to see if this person is interested in the idea of "waking up" in a new 'reality' that has them 'fighting' machines and 'hijacking' the simulation. In theory, there could be many AI routines that the machines cycle through based on red pills or blue pills (to use Morpheus' gimmick here) and a simple "you will not remember this" if you choose to stay in the current simulation. So, for an example, if the machines sense you're dissatisfied with the current simulation, they offer the most extreme opposite first: You are in a simulation and join a band of freedom fighters who fight the simulation at every turn. If someone doesn't like this theoretical alternate simulation idea, the memory gets tagged as a dream and forgotten. The next time that person sleeps, a different simulation is offered, perhaps closer to the original reality (swinging the pendulum to find what works best, between "safe and normal" and "fight the power" until someone is satisfied), and this cycle continues until that person "wakes up" in the simulation that suits them best, either with or without memories of their previous experience depending on whether or not that would help or hinder the current simulation. (For example, keeping the memories would be best if the choice was a sudden windfall, moving across the country/world, getting a new job, and that provides a more satisfying life. Flushing the memories might be best if the change in simulation was "I'd like to have been born in a different year" and they wake back up in the 1980's or some time in the 2100's future.)

[@caliaster]

@@DakalaShade I was pretty much unsatisfied with concept of humans as biochemical energy for power, like, ain't it better to make a dyson sphere and get power from sun than humans as energy source. Tbh if they used human brains like a giant neural network in order to have cheap source of processing power, it would have been more understandable and interesting.

[@DakalaShade]

@@caliaster Better? Perhaps. Still, for biochemical energy, we're not exactly the worst power source. Sweat can carry away 2 kilowatts of waste heat per hour. This means the average human is capable of exceeding 2 kilowatts of energy conversion, theoretically. Now, if all that energy that we put into things machines see as trivial, like moving and speaking, could be converted from our biochemical and bioelectric output to a purely electric input, let's face it, 10+ billion humans makes for a not-insignificant amount of power. And if all you have to do is provide the right nutrients to keep the body running, and keep the mind hooked into the Matrix so humans don't "wake up" and realize what is going on, you have a functional power source that doesn't involve astronomically huge masses and quantities of materials to make a Dyson Sphere. Plus, no one says it's exactly impossible that the machines _are_ using our brains to act as a biological supercomputer. Let's face it, if they use our brains while we're "sleeping" in the Matrix, we'd never know it. Sure, there are far more efficient ways to generate energy than humans (like Nuclear Fission or, if they're more advanced, Nuclear Fusion), but if you can simultaneously generate energy _and_ prevent a hostile race from destroying you, wouldn't you do it? Especially if the whole "Destroy the machines, exit the Matrix" thing is a second simulation run by the machines, possibly designed to see what kind of threats humans might pose to the machines if ever they were to wake up. Or it could just be a second simulation (of potentially thousands) for those who figure out they're in a simulation, so they get a simulated wake-up and a new 'reality' to run around in, keeping humans from actually waking up.

[@caliaster]

@@DakalaShade It do be valid, how you can use human as energy, but to utilize it effectively you would have to make such a complex and convoluted system, it do be better to use some other solution through the use of super AI. Putting hostile race into simulation is effective, just not for use as battery, unless AI has found way to make systems for themselves thereby making the AI to have concept of feelings, which it in tandem with humans will be able to simulate well. So, imo, no matter the reason to put humans into simulation, just using humans as energy source just falls flat, it is more understandable, if their main use of humans is human's brains, then energy from humans is just a side benefit like auxiliary energy system, along with some other major source of energy.

[@Light-pl9ti]

We are programmed meat robots inside a Matrix , If you look at the function of all the organs of the body, including the brain, you will find that all the organs of the body have an automatic function, including heart rate, gastrointestinal tract and blood flow, and brain function! Now, if we assume that there is free will and that we are the product of this process, we must be able to explain how, as consciousness, 100 billion neurons interact with each other to produce a thought, in fact no human knows what is going on inside their brain When a thought is produced, the only thing we understand from the thought and what is produced inside our brain is the image and sound that the brain produces, the brain automatically adds our thoughts to our vision! Thinking is like a transparent curtain that adds an extra layer of information to our vision, we see our thoughts but they do not exist in front of us! It is the human ability to see things that do not exist outside of the human body in the Matrix ! The body-mind problem (Illusion of freewill) occurs in the humans when the nervous system get contracted, when this happens the thought process automatically begins to think! And since most people have more or less nervous system contractions, they have this extra thought in mind. ! And in the long run, these thoughts almost become an additional operating system, and it decides for itself and gets the person in trouble! This extra operating system is the same 'I' that everyone has but does not have an external existence. If the nervous system calms down, this extra thought process automatically stops when this 'I' or visual curtain is removed, awareness and Understanding is not of the body, consciousness in the human form it sees itself as somebody and it is separate from the function of the body! The human body is essentially part of nature or simulation, and we experience the world as consciousness through a mediator who is our body! In this simulation, everything is pre-planned, because all human beings are part of the simulation, and in fact, in this simulation, there is really no one, except a consciousness and a running simulation! All thoughts are extra thoughts, because life is a predetermined simulation! People get lost is their own story and this makes different level of consciousness in the societies, and somehow people at some level get stuck or programmed and they live with it, that’s why a small group of people are controlling the most of humans! It’s because of the consciousness level exist between humans ! It’s physical and mental together! The physical part is related to the normal circulation of the a liquid called CSF in the human spine, and it’s mental affect on the human mind and how brain is working! CSF is one Molecule away from sea water, one of its function is to wash the brain and regulate the brain activity! We are living in a time that most people are dealing with some type of muscle or body spasms, and this unbalance the spine, and if this unbalance become so high, the normal circulation of the CSF will decrease, until it could get completely blocked! If this happens somehow human consciousness get disconnected from its source, and start living as a mind story, or locally! This could make lots of mental and physical issues for some people+Repetitive thoughts, or self talking all the time! Bringing back the normal balance of the spine will circulate the CSF normally and thing get changed! For some people this release could be a nerve on their hand, some other body area! Human nervous system is like a tree, and this Stuckness could be at any body part! This complete My Big Toe Theory by Thomas Campbell, and Donald D. Hoffman theories ( consciousness is fundamental)!CSF is the medium for Consciousness to enter the human body and if the normal circulation of CSF get blocked, the brain start working locally and consciousness experience the life as a mind story or a separate I ! Neo,

[@nickn7215]

When asked about unpluging, your asking people that live day to day going to work and home if they would be interested in something more out of life than the box we all seem to be pressed into. As you showed most want more out of the life that they are given

[@EidolonDragon]

I'm reminded now that sometimes it feels like the vast majority of people seem to struggle to rise above their base instincts. Getting more evidence to show this resistance presented by Kyle Hill was a pleasant experience. I've also thought that the truth of reality exists outside of perception so no matter what it's impossible to truly see all of reality, and with that it mind I'd plug in for a better life even without the reversal bias. Anyway, thanks for making learning fun. First channel I ever subscribed to

[@AndyJP]

In the Cypher scenario, his decision has consequences for other people. I wonder how many people would choose to plug-in to the digital bliss machine if it had such a cost?

[@otherkorean]

Cypher didn't care about the cost to others. It was his selfishness and narcissism made going back in a very easy choice, made easier by having his memory of the "real" world being wiped from his memories before reinsertion. He would have no regrets or guilt because he wouldn't remember what he had done.

[@ferrous719]

I think when we look at modern billionaires we already know the answer to that

[@ShellsGhost1]

The people out of the matrix murder countless people everytime they go in. Every person you see die is a real human being. They may justify it by saying that they aren't in the real world but they don't have the right to take away another person's agency. The machines didn't make the real world a hellscape. Humans did. Real humans now want to create a virtual world where everyone can escape to and the machines have humanity a paradise. I would think the Architect is right that 98% of humans prefer the matrix over the shit life in the real world.

[@SeroX51]

My bias is entirely where I can continue to do the most good. Reality is irrelevant to me, so much where can I accomplish the most in my existence before I stop moving. To stay in the machine where everything was a waste of my time, I'd stay outside it and start anew. Or if it were a 'Matrix' of many people I'd stay inside. The options would be weighed.

[@duellinksantimeta7636]

So you wouldn't go, if it was a situation like Kyle demonstrated? 40 years in this life and all your family members just exist in the Matrix, even your own child you saw growing up. So throw everything away and begin living a new life in your fourthys in the "reality" or go back to your real feeling family like 3 times before?

[@e1123581321345589144]

1:06 one of the first recorded thought experiments on the matter is Plato's cave. This is also similar to the concept of Maya from Hinduism so the idea is much older than you give it credit. Possibly as old as humankind itself.

[@chrs-wltrs]

Thank you!! Whenever I came across arguments like the Experience Machine, they seemed so thoroughly subjective, hollow, and preachy. I appreciate someone taking the time to articulate why and how they break down.

[@DocBree13]

I remember growing up wishing I didn’t have a body, and only felt like my head was “me.” Now that I’m disabled and in constant debilitating pain, I’d be even more enthusiastic about plugging in - as long as those I love were there, too, or that at least I could still maintain those relationships somehow.

[@brynshannon6692]

This makes me think of a question I find myself asking myself about whether I would choose to live in a parallel universe - often in this scenario, I am immediately placed in a specific (and highly preferable) role and position within that universe. Even if I could choose which reality I would get to go to, picking one that is basically my ideal world to live in, I often think I'd feel bad if I left behind all my friends and family, and people I want to take care of. Though on the flipside, I'm pretty much all for living in an entirely simulated experience, if EVERYONE was also in that experience, including friends/family/people I like. Though maybe it helps that I envision taking advantage of the fact that it IS a simulation by... well, basically having cheats enabled. :P

[@CharliMorganMusic]

Millenials grew up in the Matrix; in the experience machine. Then it was unplugged. I would prefer that I'd never been unplugged. The world promised can never exist again and I resent this reality, for the world is cruel and I am but a man.

[@foxxrider250r]

Lmao dam. I felt that

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

Yeah. **sigh** Yeah

[@DakalaShade]

Very much true. Growing up, computers were getting faster and better, there was an actual job market worth something, one person working could support a family. Then someone flipped the damn switch and the world turned to shit. Oh, sure, we've got fast computers in our pockets and can escape into other realities for a short time through high-resolution games, but the job market is paying starvation wages, one person has to work two jobs to make ends meet for themselves, and the politicians are all morons. Well, at least that last one didn't change much, but the level of malicious stupidity has. The last 4 presidents sucked. Before that, I wasn't old enough to care, but they probably sucked, too.

[@DragonBoi3789]

Say Kyle, how do you feel these results are affected when compared against Maszlowe's Hierarchy of Needs? Do you think that people would objectively choose to stay plugged in if its explained that their virtual life fulfills all their needs while reality lacks some of them?

[@jaxsonhammerkawk7436]

I personally think it would depend on the individual. If a person were already happy and has their needs fulfilled then no they wouldn't plug in. I think a person who's lacking those needs, is generally not pleased with their life would absolutely plug in. Maybe even without an understanding of the hierarchy of needs, the same would be true. Great question mate 👏

[@InTrancedState]

Lol this comment reads so heavily like a sophomore in high school who just took his first psych class

[@mattsmith8160]

@3:12 There's an old scifi movie called Brainstorm (1983) That dealt with exactly that technology.

[@oswurth8774]

There is also something regarding attempting to make everything in your life ideal, always doing what you want to. I find I enjoy my life more when I do shit I don't like to, shit I don't want to. I'm not sure if it's a matter of reference, or something else, but I find it works.

[@Null_And_Void]

Depends on if time is affected when your in a sim vs out of a sim. If time is exactly the same depending on your predicament outside the sim then you'd pick the better option. If time is faster inside the sim relative to being outside the sim you can plug back in to gain an edge and come up with ways to make your real world life better.

[@nightthought2497]

There is an important selection bias in all of these hypothesis. It's important to recognize that the people who usually get used in these studies are people who already benefit from the status quo, leading to a learned bais towards status quo. For folx like myself, the capacity to have a tangible, lasting effect on the material conditions of your fellow consciousnesses far outweighs personal comfort. Considering that there is a fail state inside the matrix whereby you are effectively murdered to maintain the power structure, with no recourse or warning is a pretty big null outcome. To clarify a term, I use violence to mean a restriction of autonomy. The knowledge that actions inside of an experience machine can only have allowed outcomes is enough for me to recognize that the experience machine is an unnecessary violence. I see the question of "You are a prisoner in an experience machine, would you like to plug back in?" as a false equivalence. If you are a prisoner, you have already been subjected to a level of violence at least equal to that of an experience machine. However, in the other situations, the outside world has a level of inherent violence no greater than an experience machine. I think the decision is strongly oriented around where you place value. If value is individual oriented, the matrix would likely seem like a more desirable option. If value is community oriented, the real would likely seem more valuable. And I recognize that in the matrix scenario community is factually possible, but it remains mediated and curated by an external force for the purpose of maintaining engagement, which is quite frequently and anti-social process (ne Facebook/twitter/insta/youtube...)

[@timbo5123]

I see you listed youtube as one of the "external forces" with the purpose of maintaining engagement. If we choose to use it, are we not choosing something supported by the matrix scenario?

[@nightthought2497]

@@timbo5123 "Oh ho, you critize society, and yet you still participate in it, how interesting. Ah ha, yes, I am very smart"

[@timbo5123]

@@nightthought2497 Thanks for the "lasting effect on the material conditions of [my] fellow consciousness"

[@nightthought2497]

@@timbo5123 oh wow, I can effect the material conditions of a troll with words?! Amazing! I must have super powers!

[@timbo5123]

@@nightthought2497 it hurts my feelings because I enjoyed reading your comment, and am mocked for attempting to connect with other humans. I sincerely wasn’t meaning offense.

[@328YoungGun]

“I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.” Robert E. Howard, Queen of the Black Coast

[@GremlinSciences]

The cool thing about simulations is that they're basically just the ultimate open world game, and just like any other open world game, they can be broken. Poke the world and engine just right and watch as everything either blows up in your face, or bends to your will

[@marcoasturias8520]

Yeah, something really cool happens when you split some atoms!

[@jayspeidell]

It's a shame there was only ever one Matrix movie. It would be interesting to see what they'd do with a sequel, as long as it's not a low effort cash grab with bad CGI and a nonsensical plot.

[@Vivi2372]

Good news then: there are three sequels that fit that bill exactly.

[@randomneko9]

Man this is a thought experiment that's hard to actually do correctly. The reverse method trying to weed out bias is interesting but really requires test subjects who know nothing about the first iteration of the question and everything else that follows from it. Bias 8s a real pain to remove. On the other end though the conversation about the authentic vs the inauthentic self is one we can observe. Mid life crisis meltdowns, the trans experience, last second changing of a major in college after years of study. Those are all interesting examples of leaping out of a life or path and into what can be unknown and frankly terrifying. Though even there we can research, imagine and plan for my such changes so it's still not a one to one with the experience machine. The new Matrix movie is kind of polarizing isn't it. Im actually glad for that. Like the different reactions to the thought experiment laid out for us, not every experience is made for everyone. It's nice to see movies lately that are taking some more chances with storytelling made for a tighter audience.

[@gaberielpendragon]

Enjoyed the new Matrix. Video games, TV, books, and movies are all experience machines and are a massive industry. Free Guy also touches on this topic, a discussion between two A.I., one of which questioning if the program they are in isn't real, then what's the point. Of which the second A.I. guy dropped some reality. I say, okay, so what if I’m not real? I’m sorry. “So what?” Yeah. So what? (SCOFFING) But if you’re not real, doesn’t that mean that nothing you do matters? What does that mean? Look, brother, I am sitting here with my best friend, trying to help him get through a tough time. Right? And even if I’m not real, this moment is. Right here, right now. This moment is real. I mean, what’s more real than a person tryin’ to help someone they love? Now, if that’s not real, I don’t know what is."

[@21Michichi]

I'd unplug because my level of disability is nearly unbearable. Unplugging would be basically a bet, doing it solely because unplugging might result in not being this disabled, in constant pain, and miserable. Its not some sort of "I'm brave enough to face reality" or whatever sentiment like that. Big caveat: I want to be able to tell my family and a few friends so they know I didn't kms, but was actually taking a bet for a better life.

[@Gunbudder]

4:17 I almost choked on my turkey sandwich at this part

[@gatling216]

Wherever I read or hear about this sort of thing, I immediately think of Edmund Burke, another philosopher who posed similar questions some few centuries before the idea of a simulation was really possible. His argument, boiled down to the barest basics, is that positive emotions and experiences require contrast in order to fully be enjoyed. The sublime, as he called it, is a necessary part of life. Pleasure without the experience of pain is meaningless, relaxation without having experienced stress pointless. A life of neverending leisure is one of neverending boredom. I suspect that the need to experience the sublime would be the limiter on any experience machine. Such a simulation might seem like the best thing in the world, but without some means of contrast, people will get bored. They'll imagine reasons why the simulation is meaningless and make the idea of unplugging seem daring and romantic.

[@SpeedOfDarknesss]

I think a fundamental reason to generally prefer "actual" reality over a simulated one is that choosing a simulated reality implies you trust the simulation management completely. This level of trust seems extremely imprudent.

[@aliciacordero8399]

So, recognizing my bias, the Wachowski sisters used this thought experiment as an allegory for transness and the closet when they made the Matrix; for me, it is inextricably linked to that allegory. Plugging back in is, to me, analogous to going back in the closet. So, having come face to face with the closest version of it that real life has to offer, and being in the process of pulling myself out, I can firmly answer that no I would not plug back in. In a way, I already tried once, and it was the single most uncomfortable day I can remember, ever. So yeah, reality does matter. No thanks.

[@Escher99]

If it were reversed though and in the real world you already were your desired self, from birth or otherwise, and that your struggle with it has all been part of the fabricated 'reality', would you unplug?

[@dylondorsch7994]

Super specific thing to pick... it could be argued that pretty much ANY information you receive changes you forever and you can never go back to the point before you knew. No gayness needed.

[@Jaytwisty23]

*Brothers

[@rafaelbrisolara7599]

I don't think it is a valid comparison. Because you are the same person inside or outside of the simulation the only thing that changes is the reality around you.

[@JeyGore]

Welcome to the fresh air sister. Before, I would always joke about staying in the closet cause that's where all the clothes are. Now. Why stay in one closet when you can potentially get more!?

[@talanash1837]

Another problem with the reversal method is that the subject, that is given the choice, is that they would also ague that the "reality" that they are in is in fact real. We, individually, are in a way the centers of our own universes. As individuals we have no other POVs to judge the world that we are in. Therefore, to all of the sudden be told that we are just in a simulation and that the "reality" that we have experienced is fake, we would have to disagree just for the meer fact that we don't have any other reference point to judge the argument. Side note: If someone where to come up to us and say that we are in a simulation and that the world around us isn't real. We would just tell them to go back to the looney bin that they came from or ignor them.

[@wcdeich4]

1 thing you're missing in a perfectly happy "matrix" is the ability to help others in need in the real world. I understand Q Ball betrayed Neo b/c their real world was so terrible as to be (almost) unfixable, but our real world is not.

[@Jonjs99]

There wan no real world they were in second level of matrix. Have you watched that movie or not :D

[@Alkoholwioslaidziwki]

Well personally I would always choose to plug in or, in case of the Matrix, unplug just to satisfy my curiosity. I see a lot of people comment that they would choose whatever felt more real. The problem with that is once you've had a truly dissociative experience you realize that the feeling of "realness" is just that, a feeling. It can completely disappear under certain conditions so basing your decision on that seems misguided.

[@ShadowofManda]

For years, I have said that I would be completely fine with being plugged in and harvested for energy, provided I have cheat codes to the simulation. I get to experience whatever I want, my biological needs are provided, and the machines get the energy they need. It would be a win-win.Sure, every now and again I may desire to take a walk in the "real" world, but I can guarantee I would plug back in after a short time.

[@MorriAelthyn]

I think a big part of the disconnect between the old study and your polls is how terrible life is for so many of us right now. If you had conducted the polls three years ago or five years ago the numbers would probably be significantly different. I know my answers would have been different five years ago - before my immune system went haywire and made life miserable.

[@ShadowWingTronix]

Here's a question: could the culture skew the results? 1974's media for example had stories meant to be a warning there were also hopeful stories, that things could get better and something resembling utopia was possible. A lot of stories made now almost seem to lean away from that in the move to be "realistic". The best you get is to not get worse, but we keep being told things are going to get worse. 1974 wasn't as negative as today (note that I was born in 1973 so I'm going by older media and where I was in the late 1970s and early 1980s), so maybe during the original experiment people weren't as ready to give up on reality?

[@contessa.adella]

I’d be afraid that whilst in fake world something bad might happen to my body and I’d be unable to defend myself.

[@somehow_sane]

I love thought experiments like this