Could PS5 Pro Fails, Is This The End For Mid-Gen Console Upgrades?

[@jarde1989]

The One X was amazing… especially for the X360 upgrades to 4k/60 But generally I think midgen refreshs should be limited to slim consoles or Switch OLED style upgrades

[@craigsampson3386]

It's funny... Xbox went from that, to zero mid gen upgrades, with zero slim refresh/revision and slapped on a 2TB SSD Series X for $600 USD.

[@notesscrotes4360]

@@craigsampson3386 Even as someone who's considering the PS5 Pro, them not making a "pro" XSX was a good call. They looked at where the market was heading, with regards to inflation, chip prices, and die shrinks, and knew as far as half a decade ago that they couldn't pull it off without making a wildly expensive box. To be honest, I think the Series S was a great alternative to this idea, they just didn't have the clout to define what the baseline system would be for next-gen.

[@Kyush4]

But even then backwards compatibility wasn't exclusive of One X

[@F0CKSTR0T]

As an owner of an XboneX, it made the move to Series X feel like a mid gen refresh. PS4 Pro to PS5 would felt the same if it weren't for the dualsense honestly. I also really despise how Microsoft has made the UI the same for every console across the board. If they could retroactively remove the soul from the original Xbox with a firmware update, they'd do it in a heartbeat.

[@jarde1989]

@@craigsampson3386 I mean sure… but they also have $300, $400, $500 models lol

[@Stevie-Steele]

Typo in the video title? Should be "If PS5 Pro Fails" not "Could PS5 Pro Fails"

[@tomwilmshurst-smith4206]

Or - could ps5 fail

[@KyleSetFire]

*When

[@Jasonsadventures]

If is worse than could fail. Regardless it wont fail, sales will be very strong. I personally don't know anyone who doesn't already have the drive and plan to pre ordering the console.

[@Bobla212]

Should ...

[@NeroVingian40]

Yeah, I don’t really see a situation where the PS5 Pro will fail either. It will still sell well even with that pricepoint. The person who asked the question seems to be taking in some liberties of their own in their question, immediately assuming that the PS5 Pro won’t sell well just by looking the public discourse surrounding it.

[@amysteriousviewer3772]

I would hope so. We are trapped in a cycle where lacking software optimisation is being brute forced with stronger hardware or band-aided with additional software like upscaling and frame-generation. Back during the PS3 and 360 days developers really had to squeeze everything they could out of the available hardware which is why we see such an impressive leap between early and late 7th gen games. The only company still doing this is Nintendo with the Switch and its probably a big reason for its success and the quality of the games.

[@edmonddantes759]

lol kek aged like milk

[@wg8561]

I loved that gen for the first 5 or 6 years, then it just dragged on. 5 years should be the max lifespan imo. Anything longer and the hardware is too outdated

[@adousylla23]

I think that the main issue is the fact that we don’t even have many games that pushes the ps5 plus all the remasters and remake this generation has been really underwhelming in terms of games so we don’t need a PS5 pro to play PS4 games at a better resolution like they are perfectly fine on the base console.

[@cegentry]

Absolute joke of a console generation. PS3 gen Naughty Dog released Uncharted 1-3 and TLOU. All amazing games that hold up to this day. PS4 gen we got Uncharted 4 and TLOU 2. This gen……..NOTHING!!!!! THEN they have the audacity to release a PRO at $700. Sorry I don’t need my PS4 games to run better. At least we got Concord though. We all needed that.

[@OscarLopezCe]

​@@cegentry PS4 got uncharted 4 after 3 years of its release. Tlou2 was released the same year than the ps5. Also naughty dog had a project cancelled (factions). PS4 also got no GTA game btw. Y'all wanted backwards compatibility? There you have it. It's easier now to just develop for the lowest common denominator than to develop exclusives for new Gen. PS4 won't die, especially when games take some much money to develop it would be dumb to not release to a platform with hundred of millions of users. But yeah, let's blame Sony and the new Gen. Clown. Ps5 pro will also be a success. Just like that Portal shit. And just like that, I won't be buying it.

[@dr.sivavignesh664]

@@OscarLopezCe naughty dog launched lost legacy which was decent in length as well. So 3 games in ps4 generation. You can have that argument for every generation. Ps2 had the most units sold. They could have been releasing games for it for yet another decade. Can't blame everything on rising costs when Sony clearly makes dumber decisions one after the other. Pursuing live service when your target audience is single player oriented, releasing VR 2 when nobody asked for it, increasing the price of exclusives when they are going to be sold cheaper in a month in the used disc market ( they made more people wait and get used discs rather than buy on day 1 by increasing the price), making everything cross generation for too long , releasing unnecessary remakes and remasters just to please the minority audience who would watch their corresponding tv shows, etc etc.

[@carbonara2144]

​@@cegentryConcord lost Sony 400 million usd. It was a catastrophe. Days Gone, Killzone, Resistance and Bloodborne need sequels to make back that money.

[@murray821]

Take a look in your PS4 games drawer. The majority of the games have the pro enhanced label on the box. So you can safely assume that from here on all or most will be ps5 pro enhanced

[@travisc123]

I think for mid-gen refreshes to work, they have to be timed around other technological improvements in other mediums, that are happening concurrently. The reason that the PS4 Pro worked, was because there was an influx of 4K TVs and the pro was able to play in 4K. That was its biggest selling point.

[@homerthompson416]

The other thing that made the PS4 Pro make sense was the shrink to 16nm brought huge cost savings to production vs 28nm that OG PS4 was manufactured on, but that era of node shrinks giving free performance is over.

[@notesscrotes4360]

120fps/VRR televisions are honestly the biggest selling point for a PS5 Pro. I don't know why anyone would get one without a modern TV, but things like that don't get as much marketing hype as resolution bumps.

[@Shadowman820]

That's also true and so far very few have and want 8K TVs and the PS5 pro couldn't do 8K in games anyway without downgrading allot of other things .

[@2drealms196]

Another reason is PS4 PRO was also 2.2x more powerful than PS4, while PS5 PRO is only 45% more powerful than PS5 at rasterization. Sadly advances in consoles are only going to slow down. The hundred million dollar equipment used to make the chips has to get even more and more complex and expensive to continue making smaller transistors. The fabs have to have ever more sophisticated cleanrooms and vibration controls, all this is ballooning fab construction and operating costs, to the tune of 20 billion dollars. In 5 years it could be 30 billion, they have to make back that money, and given the inherit/finite limits of wafer production capacity they will have to raise chip prices on console chips, phone chips, graphics cards, cpus etc.

[@trickshotgamingtrickshotgaming]

@@Shadowman820it’s confirmed to have 8k games ps5 already has 2

[@vertigoz]

"There's no bad hardware only bad prices" Albert Einstein

[@Saieden]

I don't agree in absolute, but yes, the device is great, but the sell is awful.

[@crobinson2624]

“Sony is the greatest console manufacturer ever. There has never been a better video game console than the PS5 Pro in the history of the world. Xbox wishes they had a better console than Sony. I’ve heard Nintendo say they are impressed with what Sony is doing over at PlayStation. I’m going to make a game for PlayStation.” 🧑‍🦳Donald Trump. 😂

[@mbro9700]

Every PS5 Pro should have been in the PS1 style as standard. 😂

[@murray821]

Agreed, and should be standard going forward

[@anssiaatos]

@@mbro9700 I need the PS1 style Pro 😍

[@crowclaw]

Just more colour variants. Most 360 special editions are silly, but recognisable. The mythical orange Game Cube! Now Microsoft sells wrap around cases. And the sparkle edition of series x.

[@Jasonsadventures]

They would have sold 50 million of them if they did that. Actually amazing how badly Sony have misread the market

[@marklarz4399]

My guess its it'll sell enough to recoup the Concord losses, then Sony will announce Concord 2

[@dreamcastfan]

Please no! 😂

[@theMatch111]

​@dreamcastfan it'll prob be same game just non woke characters and called remastered 😂

[@AlphariousOmegon-d5d]

@@theMatch111 remastered with space marine characters haha

[@majbt45]

I guess go woke go broke

[@mrpotch]

Then make the PS6 $1399 for the failure of Concord 2

[@abz7800]

the problem with comaring ps5 to ps5 pro is that they have to throw the ps5 under the bus and show that its a bad console with low resolution and graphics compared to ps5 pro which obviously isnt ideal as its their main product . to soften the blow they only make comparisons with ps5 in fidelity mode this make it still visually appealing whilst showing benefits of ps5 pro frame rate

[@TheRustedPixel]

This is so true! This is what I've been saying. They could never upstage the PS5 in their demos because it's a huge chunk of their revenue for the next few years to come.

[@Luke973T]

Yeah its silly to think that sony would undermine their main console in the marketing. The pro is targeting a specific audience and its smaller than the audience that is only interested in the base ps5

[@KyleSetFire]

I mean they have been abusing chequerboarding non stop all generation. By all accounts the PS5 Pro will deliver the actual 4K image they've been claiming the PS5 has been doing all generation. $700 to turn of chequerboarding? No thanks.

[@KyleSetFire]

​​@@Luke973TLast generation when we had the only ACTUAL mid generation upgrade.....it was much easier to market because the pro consoles were specifically made allow people with 4K TVs to get more out of the generation. There hasn't been a change in display habits which means the PS5 Pro is entirely redundant and harming Playstation's brand as a whole. But I guess they need to start clawing back that $400m Concord loss and their worst financials in a decade.

[@Luke973T]

@@KyleSetFire yet ps5 games are running lower than 4k at 60fps. That argument makes no sense. Did every sell their 4k displays this generation? I've only gotten a better 4k display than the one I had last gen and the ps5 can't always take full advantage of it. The pro will help bridge the gap. I have a pc and dlss is used 90 percent of the time by players (if you have an Nvidia gpu). Don't like it don't buy it but don't lie about it either. To suggest that concord flopping has anything to do with it is silly.

[@_n8thagr8_63]

Bet it sales like crazy lol

[@DragonKing_V]

Guess what? That's exactly what happened!

[@kizanko]

This is what happens if our hardware gets "corrected for inflation" but not our salaries

[@AlexisCorchado-xy3cg]

This comment right here……..

[@WH250398]

The Ps4 Pro was genuinely a great upgrade for not all that much extra money. The Ps5 pro though... I never once thought when playing the ps5 that it lacked power. The only 30fps game I own is the Quarry, and that's an interactive movie.

[@harktz983]

Mid gen console are very welcome in my house, but only if priced right. PS5 pro's price, especially in Europe, shows how much Sony has been corrupted by his greediness, hence it's should fail harder than Concord

[@richr161]

Makes you question how they're going to price next gen consoles. PS5 pro being priced at $799 no disc drive. I presume ps6 is going to be priced cheaper for faster hardware in the next 2-3 years.

[@craigsampson3386]

Xbox Series X 2TB edition for $600 makes the Pro look like a bargain for what you're getting lol plus Xbox forces the disc drive onto their customers unnecessarily ballooning their price just like the Kinect with XB1 which basically nobody used or wanted just like the disc drive in am Xbox

[@harktz983]

@@richr161 I think they're testing the waters here with PS5 pro, and PS6 could cost anything from 600 to 1000 based on Pro's sales. I'm doing my part to keep it closer to 600 by not buying it, at least until they cut the price significantly.

[@richr161]

@@craigsampson3386 To the base consumer xbox is a deal. Tack on xbox gamepass and you got a heck of a deal for gaming. COD frankly makes more sense with a yearly release as part of a monthly service than a 1 time purchase. Ultimately the chipset in the ps5 pro is not cheap to make. The more refined nodes would normally cut prices on chips in the past, leading to smaller cheaper consoles. Thats no longer the case. The current gen released a gen behind the best hardware, so the current improvements come at great expense.

[@richr161]

@@harktz983 I think the difference is ps5 pro is probably being sold at profit. The ps6 more than likely will be sold at a loss to get the install base. $699/no disc drive is just not a mainstream price. Also i think the next gen hardware will be focused on features than raw hardware power. Raytracing, DLSS/Ai upscaling, and other graphical techniques are going to be more beneficial than raw power. The current gen consoles have powerful hardware at least in relation to their pc counterparts at the time. Frankly don't think they've really tapped into it with current games. The ps4/xbox one came with slow cpu/mid rang gpu hardware at the time. There was potential for big gains next gen. Since they came with such powerful hardware, to get improvement from where they currently stand requires more expensive foundry nodes. That comes at a cost. I wish there were more games that could justify a next gen console or mid gen refresh. Maybe GTA 6?

[@VitoVitonerLanci]

I hope midgen upgrades die soon. Just go back to making a good console, a more power efficient slim model down the line and THAT'S IT. I don't wanna risk a base PS4 scenario in which some games were clearly optimized for the pro model.

[@SolarErazer]

Xbox fan boys and Pc fan boys want PlayStation to fail as it is always successful and winning

[@Radek494]

Name those games, because most of them ran at more stable 30 fps on base PS4 due to lower resolution targets, and Pro was bandwidth starved above 1440p

[@jouskehigaskita8835]

The vanilla ps5 ain’t good enough anymore hardware wise. Plus u don’t have to buy a pro model

[@jollama]

@@Radek494Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2019, Resident Evil 2 Remake, Crash Bandicoot 4 It’s About Time, Final Fantasy XV

[@RandomGamingMoments925]

Disagreed. Mid-gen upgrades are crucial for backwards compatibility. Imagine how bad PS4 games would look on PS5 if the Pro didn't exist.

[@molsen7549]

6:35 is Sony mandating Pro support for every future game on their platform. 3rd party titles included? I hope so. They should have mandated more from the start, like VRR/Unlocked framerate a modes as well - or at least encouraged it.

[@crobinson2624]

What does failure for the PS5 pro look like though? Apparently, the PS4 pro only consisted of 15% of the total PS4 install base. so if the PS5 pro makes up only 10% or less of the PS5 install base. Is it a failure?

[@Aki_Lesbrinco]

Exactly. This thing is not meant to sell many units,which begs the question: what's the purpose of releasing this? Just like the PS VR2, this thing makes no financial sense for Sony.

[@crobinson2624]

@@Aki_Lesbrinco it’s meant for the 6 Sony fan boys with too much money.

[@sunnywagle8995]

I miss the time when Sony was more concerned about selling software.

[@edmonddantes759]

Then you clearly don't know Sony they have always been hardware since the walkman days. It was only in PS4 they focused more on software side of things like subscriptions.

[@sunnywagle8995]

@@edmonddantes759 By Sony, I meant Playstation as a brand.

[@sunnywagle8995]

@@edmonddantes759 By Sony, I meant Playstation as a brand.

[@a36538]

that $700 gives sony the ability to grant price cuts, if they drop it to $500 and the ps5 to $350 - people would go nuts

[@AB-fr2ei]

If we are realistic, it would be 700 with the disc drive and 600 digital and 350 for the Digital base PS5 and 450 for the base PS5 Disc version

[@timytimeerased]

"if things were cheaper, people could buy it more" - big brain thinker -

[@ihaveallthecoins2785]

I wish it was possible to build a system that has a modular design so when you need a mid generation refresh you simply remove the old GPU and snap in the new one for $300. Buying an entirely new system that has %90 of the same parts of the original for better ray tracing seems ridiculous. To me anyway.

[@ietisitube3659]

Would be better of environment also. Not the mention size and weight for shipping logistics

[@Whit3WolfXArcadia]

Probably not people said the same thing about the portal and it was selling well

[@Ice_2192]

Because its just $200. People are more willing to pay for that than PSVR2 which was basically the same price as the PS5 at launch. I see that as more of a failure since Sony actually temporarily stopped production on it because they were fully stocked on store shelves. The price determines the failure of the product.

[@gothpunkboy89]

@@Ice_2192 Ah so we went from "no one will buy the PS Portal. It is totally and completely useless" to now "Well it was only $200 so of course people would buy it."

[@SolarErazer]

Xbox fan boys and Pc fan boys want PlayStation to fail as it is always successful and winning

[@GreatImmortal91]

@@Ice_2192 Yes. And that means that at $700 people are going to know who it’s for. It ain’t for everybody, and that’s exactly what Sony is saying. You have like 3 base consoles for like $300 cheaper lol that’s all people will have a choice between. And the switch 2 whenever that comes out.

[@Ice_2192]

@@gothpunkboy89 I never said it was useless.

[@djlbergg]

I hope it does kill it off. We dont need £920 mid gen cash grabs.

[@TakisEnjoyer]

I think Mid-Gen Upgrades are already over. Nintendo cancelled Switch Pro, Xbox canceled their mid-gen, and in the next generation there's going to be absolutely no reason to do it since we'll hit diminishing returns barrier with resolution and FPS. The obly thing I could see is them making generations 1-2 years shorter

[@SolarErazer]

Xbox fan boys and Pc fan boys want PlayStation to fail as it is always successful and winning and xbox cancelled because they are losing already on the series x not selling

[@RichiPuppi]

The Switch OLED was a mid generation that did fine.

[@markedone494]

Did you see the leaked switch? Its literally switch pro

[@damiank9443]

Spencer said Series X is their refresh. Here you have it.

[@killerpwned89]

The One X and PS4 Pro only made sense because people were buying 4K displays in mass. Now we have consoles that already are plenty. I don’t think anything has changed to warrant a demand for a pro this time.

[@jakkudemoff3043]

i really doubt the pro will fail - im already anticipating seeing people camping at gamestop

[@Jasonsadventures]

You wont be seeing that because all the consoles will be sold on pre order. But just like the ps5 there will be hundreds of people lined up on launch day to pick them up

[@jakkudemoff3043]

@@Jasonsadventures oh man I'm hoping that's the case - id much rather try online

[@danielbradshaw1724]

Complete ripoff

[@jakkudemoff3043]

@@danielbradshaw1724 so are apple products but that doesn't stop apple from being the most popular mobile products

[@theMatch111]

​@@danielbradshaw1724mostly...maybe 67%

[@SystemBD]

When we need Digital Foundry to see the graphical differences with the original hardware, you know we have reached a level of technological sophistication it is difficult to surpass.

[@raydilly3142]

PS4 Pro worked because of 4K screens becoming prevalent, as well as XBOX also releasing a mid-gen refresh. PS5 Pro is unnecessary since XBOX is NOT releasing a mid-gen refresh and there's not really any prevalence of 8K screens at this point. It's just really not needed at this point.

[@santitabnavascues8673]

Honestly, I hope so, mid-gen updates make no sense on consoles, and it is just delaying the inevitable. Consoles are closed hardware for a reason: plug and play. They'll get obsolete, but their point isn't innovating in hardware but in gaming.

[@molsen7549]

I think the hard line between console generations is going to continue to blur. If the PS4 has lasted 10+ years so far, you can bet that the PS5 will last even longer. I honestly think Sony should have waited a couple more years to release the PS5 pro, made it way more powerful, and just let this generation ride out for a total of 10-12 years.

[@Aki_Lesbrinco]

If they waited a couple of years to release a Pro, it would be a PS6. They should've not wasted the R&D on this, keep the regular PS5 as the only console for this generation and in a couple of years release a PS6.

[@apferrando]

You're kind of on to something. Maybe 2 active generations, and when that 3rd one hits the oldest gets sunset on that date (save for some trickle releases that may have been delayed or far into development).

[@victorvyim]

Mid gen upgrade was a mistake, it killed off the idea of having an affordable console that can play all the games in that generation without feeling missing out on something. Ps4 pro killed that, but at least there were 'legit' reasons for it to exist. Ps5 pro is just so unnecessary and with that price tag? Hell no. They should have waited another year and then release ps6 with full backward compatibility with ps5.

[@mitsuhh]

2025 is too early for PS6.

[@boomshorts8331]

A lot of games are still not updated for the base PS5.We don't know if Sony would be able to push many games that would make the PS5 pro a viable choice.

[@TatankaTaylor]

News came out that the PS6 is already in "deep" development. With 2 editions being planned (one is a handheld). I think many will skip the PS5 Pro & wait for the PS6 instead. Besides, the PS5 Pro is not considered to be a meaningful upgrade. Not one worth the $700 price tag (or $800 if you want to play physical games on it). You're paying more for less. Meanwhile, the PS6 promises to be a real upgrade to what the PS5 (or its Pro version) offers. So its a no brainer to wait for that console instead (analysts say the PS6 will come out in 2027 or earlier, depending how the PS5 Pro fares).

[@jouskehigaskita8835]

Ima wait for the ps6 pro lmao

[@zenvultra]

@@jouskehigaskita8835wait for PS69 Pro

[@MrAaronb400]

I can't see the pro doing well at all. The new 30th anniversary one will sell out but suprised they didn't make more to sell as people suddenly took to it. Scalpers will be all over it but a missed opportunity to sell some.

[@Aki_Lesbrinco]

I don't think it will sell in any significant way. The PS4 Pro, which I bought, was just a drop in the total PS4 sales and it was only $400.00. The PS5 Pro being $700 USD and on top of that a floundering economy. It will sell alot less than the PS4 Pro.

[@shaunnightfire8269]

N64 Expansion Pack: Best mid cycle upgrade! 😅

[@John117M63]

The fact that games are still coming out on PS4 makes me not want to upgrade to the PS6. What's even the point anymore? Every game that comes out looks like it can run on the PS4 and doesn't take advantage of the hardware

[@xxnike0629xx]

Well given that apparently the PS4 Pro didn't sell a lot of units, only for PlayStation to stop manufacturing it and only keeping the PS4 Slim available... I would think a similar situation will happen where the PS5 Pro will stop being manufacturing like in 3 or so years from now at which point the PS5 Slim (digital) will be the only console SKU available with the disc drive being sold separately since the PS5 Slim and PS5 Pro are both compatible with it. By the time the PS6 comes out, the PS5 Pro will not be manufactured anymore and people will forget about it. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if with the PS6 gen, instead of a mid-gen console refresh, PlayStation releases upgrade modules for the console. Maybe they'll make it very user friendly to upgrade (for example) the cooling fan? Or at the very least RAM modules on top of (of course) the NVMe.

[@1080ilowres]

PS5 pro is more about preparing their user base for PS6 pricing. PS6 I think user friendly should be more along the lines of right to repair. Sony should make their console easier to repair, and replace parts. Console users aren't interested in PC's the whole point of consoles is to quickly set it up to your tv/monitor and forget it's there. This is what annoyed me about the steambox alienware alpha I was expecting a console with a twist (upgradable parts) all we got was exactly a console with upgradable ram and cpu that doesn't really help compared to the gpu. They even did their own version of a midgen refresh "R2" again frustrating because gpu wasn't upgradable either. So it was a glorified mini pc. It could have been the first real console-pc hybrid and it would have had a niche market.

[@YoursInYeshua]

It should be the last mid-stream pro. The returns are greatly dimenishing. It takes too long to develop games too. Just do 7 year gen. cycles.

[@joeking88]

I think what helps Sony here is the fact you have GTA coming out next year so that may push people to get the pro model. Also you’d imagine we’ll finally see Sony first party devs having games come out next year like Naughty Dog.

[@blackraven85_1]

30fps 😂

[@KevynBGrams]

PS5 Pro is definitely being sold at a profit, and it is laying the groundwork for PS6. I think its sales performance, and the initial sales performance of the PS6 will determine how hard Sony wants to go with additional PS6 offerings. Not a matter of if they will, but how many PS6 variants will be available, and how much will they cost/push technology.

[@Rubik43]

New games to tackle the 2 consoles just have to develop around the resolution, the rest will be taken care of by machine learning that already has to be developed by default. Compared to ps4 vs ps4 pro it will be extremely easier to manage.

[@NiGHTS1980]

The PS4 Pro sold the same as the PS Vita. And yet only one of those consoles had a future. The other did not. However, I don't see a point to mid cycle updates. The PS4 Pro wasn't a must own and the PS5 Pro wont be either, especially at that price. They are always limited by the CPU at the end of the day so it's better to just wait for an entirely new console with all new technology. That's what gets me excited and thats the generational leap we need. Stick to what consoles have always been about and stop trying to keep up with PC's.

[@GameMasterProducts]

If they really are going to stick to this rule that you can’t upgrade the cpu for the mid gen refresh then we as consumers should be at least demanding a top end cpu for the base model so it will age much better when the pro comes along instead of a midrange one for example the ps5 should have used zen 3 instead of 2 which would be helping the pro right now

[@smittyvanjagermanjenson182]

Only thing that is certain about the PS5 Pro is that those who buy it are practically begging Sony for a $1000 PS6. 😂

[@Shibamatzu]

why not, lets have 1000bucks consols strong enough to fight games 5-6 years down the line with high fidelity and stable framerate , not this bullshit we have for half the price with current gen, whole gen is a flop, and yes I own a ps5 and a pc

[@jouskehigaskita8835]

Normies won’t buy a ps6 at 1000.

[@killerpwned89]

@Fafnir2000 Most people are keeping phones 3+ years now and you have trade in deals to get a phone as close to free. Whereas a console you won’t have any deals and it’s expected to last just as long as your phone should. The market between the two is completely different.

[@Jasonsadventures]

@@jouskehigaskita8835 Normies can stay on PC, who cares :) Lets get back to potent custom hardware consoles. Bring on the 2 grand ps6

[@RandomGamingMoments925]

The Pro's price is unfortunate but realistic given the hardware. You're almost getting a 4070 system for $800

[@kirankara]

Ps4 pro sales was 12% but that's 12% at a £349 price point. You are asking people to spend double that and just for a digital only console. I am looking to get one, but honestly, given the pricing, this is likely to be my last gaming console. It's too expensive, and time is at a premium. I am having more fun going back and playing older and smaller titles on my steam deck right now anyway. I'll probably just pick up older titles for ps5/pro and stream to my deck and if they stop working, I'll play indy titles. Industry going a direction I'm not a fan of now

[@propane1777]

Once bitten, twice shy. Playstation in producing a Pro model of any base Playstation, need to be seen to be making noticable advances in both performance and fidelity. Unfortunately in the case of the PS5 Pro the massively under delivered. And that is totally disregarding thier pricing structure.

[@jouskehigaskita8835]

It’s because they showed PlayStation studio titles and ps4 games that already looked good. You’d see a bigger upgrade in unreal 5 titles

[@jouskehigaskita8835]

Plus the pro is getting twice the frame rate at better resolutions

[@JP-rz2pp]

Going from the recent shortages of the disc drive, I’m sure it will sell well.

[@michaelt5459]

Good lord, Alex’s stare to the camera as he said PS5 may last 15 years seems like foreshadowing…

[@bmwseries3]

I think they might be right about the cross gen and ps5 especially the last of the fat series for made so easy to clean and maintain that it would make sense, no matter what and how long you play on it its so smooth and quiet, not arsed about the pro in the slightest

[@notesscrotes4360]

That the PS5/XS could be priced as well as they were was a miracle, probably the best case scenario for a generational leap, and between wages not matching inflation, Moore's Law dying, and extra hardware power being used more and more for functional stuff like performance and not graphics, I doubt we'll be seeing mid-gen refreshes like the PS4 Pro ever again. More likely it'll be like the Gameboy Color from now on; new consoles being "soft launched" as refreshes, marketed as a better way to play games that already exist, and slowly trickling in exclusives while phasing out the old platform.

[@dreamcastfan]

The only lesson Sony should learn if the PS5 Pro doesn’t sell well is that the price was too high, not that there’s no appetite for a mid-gen upgrade console.

[@G360LIVE]

What Sony should learn is that their next mid-gen upgrade console should be in collaboration with Sega and be called Dreamcast 2. We all want that.

[@jonnyc429]

I bought a PS4 pro in 2017 from currys, it came with 3 games and was around £375 I think (something like that, may have been lower, I can't really remember). It felt like a bargain at the time and made sense to get as it allowed a lot of games to be 60fps or play in better resolution. But £700 is a bit silly considering the landscape of gaming. Make it £549, then i think people would be a lot more tempted.

[@gordon3002]

I hope the PS5 Pro doesn't sell, otherwise the price will only keep on rising

[@craigsampson3386]

In reality for that hypothetical it would just tell Sony nobody wants a Pro mid gen upgrade anymore for the following PS6 gen, but the base PS6 and Xbox next gen consoles will _still_ be expensive because of the increased cost of production and inflation, the higher prices are here to stay. Base console price increases should've been a heads up for that, also look at the 2TB Xbox Series X for $600 USD. What more proof do you need? I personally hope the PS5 Pro sells well as its actually good value, I like my mid gen upgrades and hope that they stay.

[@corey_massey]

The stupid of this statement is beyond mention....the same people telling you 700.00 is too much to spend on a dedicated gaming console spend 3 times as much (or more) on dedicated PC gaming hardware.

[@majbt45]

I hope so too consoles need to be in the 300-400$ range not this PC territory

[@orangezombies]

It's only going to stay $500 unless there is no AI hardware. And that's the future of graphics with AI to push path tracing. So it's inevitable to rise unless chip production prices go down.

[@craigsampson3386]

@@majbt45 can't build an equivalent PC for the same price though, DF have already said so.

[@chemergency]

Mid gen upgrades in general are not something I want to see become normalized. It was acceptable in the PS4 generation purely because the base PS4 wasn't all that powerful and 4K TV adoption sharply escalated after the PS4's launch. It was completely uncalled for with this gen when players are just now starting to get their hands on the base consoles for reasons of price and lack of exclusives.

[@Marcus_K]

The internet reaction to the PS Portal and the DualSense Edge was almost universally negative - yet the devices have apparently been selling well. The same will probably happen with PS5 Pro. The reaction to Nvidia's GPU or iPhone price announcements tends to be negative, but they always sell well anyway. People like to complain online, but if it's a high-quality product, it'll usually sell.

[@pian-0g445]

I would hope not, but at the same time, corporations would see low sales figure and say “never again” without knowing the reasons. Never had a refresh console, but I see the benefits of it. The only thing I’m really interested with the PS5 Pro is how it’s giving a sneak peak at what’s to come with 6. Kind of like how some games near end of life before the next game, has updates that test things for the next game (e.g. SF5 and Tekken 7 having updates or characters that end up being developed on their sequal). We can see how their first attempt of upscaling will be (which looks to be better than FSR at least). Like how the Pro brought 4K gaming to consoles, 5 Pro will bring in built upscaling, which could be really good for games if utilised properly. Sucks that the Pro is a crazy amount of money for a console.

[@BlackAera]

No?! Maybe offer a sensible upgrade next time for a reasonable price?!

[@neilhodge1187]

The problems with mid gen Pro consoles is unlike the base console which generally sell well throughout there lives, especially if the price drops over time, the Pro models sell well in their 1st year and then sales drop like a rock in later years unless the price difference significantly decreases. People who will buy the pro are price insensive and generally first time adopters so certainly wont be waiting until PS6 is about to drop to upgrade to a PS5 Pro, they will either upgrade day 1 or not at all.

[@mandrews6282]

I think preorders will sell out. Even the Portal was sold out for months, and no one thought anyone wanted that, and it offered almost no value at all if you already owned a phone. People buy this stuff. It is a niche console but so was the PS4 Pro, which we all think of as popular, but really only sold 14.5 million units, or about 12 percent of the playerbase.

[@cegentry]

I certainly hope so. These companies should make the consoles what they should be to start with. The PS5 Pro seems to do what the initial PS5 promised to start with. I remember hearing 60fps will be standard before this gen started. Mid gen refresh is nothing but a cash grab by money hungry corporations to start with. No one needs to buy a console twice to anyway unless you want an additional one in another place in your home. Stupid idea and stupid price point. I sure hope this thing bombs miserably

[@jawknee2]

This needs to fail. Sony needs a kick in the ass. They’re gotten way too arrogant. They waste $400,000,000 on that trash concord then have the nerve to ask $700 for a console with no disc drive? GTFO

[@neur0ness]

Why is there even an option for 'quality' mode or 'performance' mode in various console games? Like, why not both at the same time? Growing up playing older consoles, we never had to make that choice. We just expected the game to run optimally on the hardware it was designed for.

[@TurquoizeGoldscraper]

I think it's because games aren't made to run for the hardware anymore. Game devs are treating the PS5 like a PC, and they make games for other PCs which are more powerful than it, so the PS5 has to compromise.

[@0v55llox1]

I think the Quality mode is equivalent to whatever the default was in 8th gen (most games being 30FPS then), the best graphics the console can offer. Performance is the compromise for 60FPS, with lower graphical settings and resolution dropping to 1440p or 1080p

[@patricksowens5159]

Hopefully it *will fail*. As much as I love mid gen refreshes, Sony and other companies need to be taught a lesson about price gouging. If the extra cost had all gone into the console it would be worth it, instead they're trying to get away with a 300$ markup over production cost so they can make a huge profit.

[@Shadowman820]

Fail ? Not sure how many PS4 Pro consoles were actually sold , if it sells significantly less than that console Sony may very well see it as a failure . Maybe instead of releasing a mid gen upgrade console just shorten the actual console lifecycle from like 8 years to maybe 6 years . I mean even on PC after about 6 years an initially pricey gaming rig will start to show it's age a bit .

[@rjmiles2447]

If PS5 Pro fails, it will be due to the Sony blatant cash grab and removal of disc drive and stand, leaving buyers at the mercy of scalpers for the main unit AND the key accessories. ..

[@edmonddantes759]

hahah kek

[@xOriginalGamerOG76x]

Any chance of a look at PSVR 2 running with Pro? Or would that be too much tech spec journalism?

[@soulsbourne]

I don't know, i mean edges of sharp unnatural shadows and mercury puddles and ray traced shadow pop in in quarter resolution 4k do look great and immersive at 16k on my 120" monitor at 400 percent zoom on the gameplay that lasted a whole 25 minutes to complete it for only 99.99$ on my 64GB RTX 7099 super TI ...

[@malekinception]

If the psvr2 could fail , a mid gen console could also fail.

[@petercorcoran5372]

Considering Sony have yet to deliver anything approaching mind blowing , unique or revolutionary at this point , releasing an all singing all dancing console that seems to offer little other than extra sheen and grunt , a mid cycle upgrade that offers little more than cosmetic upgrades seems a moot point.

[@Boss_Fight_Index_muki]

Having a Ps5 Pro isn't as troublesome as having the Series S, but just having a multi tiered ecosystem creates so much hassle from a programming POV. That's what GTA6 is delayed for the PC by 18mo.

[@codezero7981]

yes, mid-gen refreshes should end, they're not necessary and detrimental on splitting the user base.

[@CheckmateStallioN]

Sony killed the Vita not by its price which was a steal for the hardware you were getting which was light years ahead of its time in the mobile space but by its insanely priced mem cards. Vita is an incredible handheld for emulation. It is a pocket PS3 really. But dumb business decisions killed it just like the super futuristic Dreamcast

[@davejohncole]

The way I see things like PS5 Pro is that Sony can test the market to answer fundamental questions about the direction they should go for a full console refresh on the PS6.

[@Scott-M1]

It's not what Sony are adding It's what they are taking away and giving you the bare minimum for an absolutely ridiculous price.

[@Jaap-Relou]

Still feel if the ps4 pro was designed around 1080p instead of 4K, it would have done way better.

[@ByteMeCompletely]

PS5 Pro will sell-out quickly. There are thousands of people that can afford it.

[@karrde593]

Also interesting is that while tech journalism has an inherent interest for progress to succeed, as just a humble consumer, if you’ve been priced out of a market, or even if a new product is so feature lacking to not justify its price, you’re actually encouraged to hope the product fails. Why should a developer spend money on a pro build when it’s going to be so weak sauce I’m not going to care 1k for it? Pc at least is hundreds of millions of boxes comared to a few million pros.

[@justprincetv9299]

Mid gen refreshes shouldn't exist just release all the versions at launch or just make a slimer more polished console when ppl are buying it on launch .

[@MegaPsycho84]

If I’m being petty then I would say that I hope it doesn’t sell lol. But seriously, I would have rather them just lunch it from the start as “Pro” ready enough rather than to pay extra later on. I would pay the extra price tag if that was the case, but to have to pay this much for a slight upgrade is ridiculous at this point. Plus, where are the games?

[@mojhanly]

Did ps5 version of Ark get the command line control of settings? If so it could be an interesting comparison between base and pro consoles

[@IvanStojsic]

We don't need mid gen upgrades, maybe we need new generation of consoles every 4,5 years, cause this feels like you are buying a weaker non finished product on day one and after 4 years sony is telling you that if you want to play the best and latest you need to invest 700+$,800 € for current generation, it's ridiculous, it's like you buy a phone this year and the new version of the same model comes out 6 months later even if you know that next new model is releasing next year,this feels similar with consoles now

[@Rose-ko6sr]

For $700 they’re giving you something you can’t get at that price (if you’re building a PC). This is a niche product targeting PlayStation hardcore fans, and it’s not going to fail. Especially since they’re making so little, it’ll be sold out for years like the p5 when it first dropped🙄

[@maxcady360]

Probably not. The PS4 Pro, which was largely unnecessary still sold about 20 million units.

[@TheXeroLink]

Goodness I hope so. The only real meaningful one has been an OG Xbox One vs a Xbox One X and only, ONLY, if you upgraded the internal drive with an Sata SSD…

[@edmonddantes759]

haha lol

[@joncarter3761]

If they keep tone deaf pricing and refusing to make a budget version that actually costs less than the launch MSRP of the base console then yes, it's very dead.

[@colinmx.]

It will succeed in what sony claims ill do but sales wise idk because the original ps4 pro did about 26% in sales

[@kokomanation]

I think personally that PS5 pro will not fail to make good profit if it is a high quality hardware

[@sully8317]

The price point isn't the only thing thats gonna kill it but the lack of first party "next gen" games. Sony invested and committed fully to live service GAAS and they have all flopped and now they're backtracking but it's gonna take a while imo to bring out the games people want. In the meantime sony is gonna try and drop easy cash grabs ie remasters.

[@H20-Water-Pro-LLC]

This is going to sell out. Every one is starving for new tech. Sadly starving for money too. But psychologically people buy things to make them feel better and big TV’s and gaming systems are things that low income folks will spend their money on. Then skip lunch for 3 months. 😢 I’ve been there too.

[@talion7268]

Litterly me at the last part😂😂😂

[@lujalegado]

It won't fail when there is no competition in console gaming 👍

[@timytimeerased]

The problem is no one knows what "failure" means, if Sony only bets on a 10% adoption. Everyone will create clickbait "PS5 Pro fails, sells 4 times less than PS5" when its exactly what they expected

[@Fireball_574]

“Psvr 2 killed off Sonys dreams” that’s a bit dramatic considering they are still manufacturing and selling the headset and ps store still has an active psvr section.

[@tylerhill40]

It should be. $700 for minute upgrade is a BIG ask.

[@grossindecency]

Why do we talk about mid-gen upgrades as if its some long lasting legacy. It happened just once (if you dont count minor iterations).

[@RealGamerReincarnate]

Also what aren't you guys mentioning that the Series X with a 2tb hard drive is selling for $600 but for $100 more you get double the GPU power faster memory and pssr??

[@jimmyrace1258]

Unless they make the original console upgradable. The Pro has driven me to PC. I don't have faith that PS6 will be both 'affordable' and have physical games.

[@Wellinkton90]

GTA 6 is on the horizon, it's impossible for PS5 Pro to Fail! and Sony knows that.

[@malekinception]

One game, doesn't make a console a success

[@snkfan]

People really underestimate PS5 Pro it's not going to fail it's not going to do bad. PC gaming is way ahead of the current PS5 console ports. Everything looks and runs better on PC with full ray tracing and frame generation. This closes the gap between high-end PC gaming and consoles.

[@Kojiros7th]

New PC parts release way to often for the consoles to keep up. 50 series cards and new CPUs from both Intel and AMD are right around the corner. The slight upgrade will help consoles to keep up for a bit but they will inevitably fall behind again after 6 months to a year

[@doh4828]

Not with that CPU it doesn’t.

[@craigsampson3386]

​@doh4828 you're focusing on the Pro's smallest upgraded component rather than looking at the whole console as a whole which under sells it.

[@craigsampson3386]

​@@Kojiros7th that has always historically happened, what hasn't is mid gen upgraded consoles to help close the gap up until recently in last generation.

[@Saieden]

​@@craigsampson3386The problem here is that the "smallest upgrade" is already the weakest component. Having upgraded from Zen 2 to Zen 3 (no V cache) and already feeling its limitations in FF16 and Wukong, I can personally attest to this.

[@Sejuani89]

Its not like the PS4 pro sold a lot. It sold less than half the total sales of base PS4. Yet they still released a PS5 pro. Pro is a niche market because majority will be satisfied with the base models.

[@james.ac.888]

Way less than half. It sold like 15%. I believe the number on the insomniac leak was 14.3 mill

[@michaelangst6078]

It will sell fine with a price cut to $600 just for people wanting to play the best version of GTA 6 alone. I do think a new console released every 4 years is a good thing. We only live for so long, why do we want to gaming technology stagnate which is what happens if consoles last 8 years without an upgrade?

[@philipberlanda]

I honestly think scalpers will buy them. If someones going to take the hit its going to be the scalpers. Not playsation.

[@nihilityjoey]

Alex's point at 4:39 makes no sense. 3 consecutive consoles running side by side, and haveing to make games for these "bepoke machines"? What?

[@wg8561]

I hope it's a success. I don't know why people want to keep the same hardware past 5 yrs. Anything longer than that and they get stale and out dated.