Could SSJ4 Goku Defeat Golden Frieza?

[@Chuck]

Thanks for watching! Please be sure to subscribe and help ya boi reach 200k! I'd like to note that I don't think Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan. Only reason I brought up those statements is for those who do think so. I said in the same video that I think Buuhan is stronger, lol.

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

No, Frieza would still destroy him.

[@riatrapgaming6415]

You gonna stream later today?

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

already subbed lol

[@zacherymangum560]

What about xeno goku with the power of cosmic vs. Marvel

[@Omaryessss]

chuck who would win in a fight gogeta blue or mui goku?

[@sirduck600]

“Base gt goku is capable of moving at infinite speed, at bare minimum” is a lot to take in

[@ivan_d_feets4495]

I thought u were joking til I watched the video…lmao that was sentence I never thought I’d hear

[@thegameplayer1693]

Yet he never does

[@0xp556]

People just take scaling way too seriously. There is no way we can believe GT base kid Goku is kid Buu level/SSJ3 level. Sure we see him fighting people kid buu level in base but come on. Same way 17 can go toe to toe with Goku Blue in Super. Poor writing.

[@adamamersid2701]

@@0xp556 butfused buu was doing no damage to 17 and that's not even a normal buu but a way stornger one while ssj 1 goku was able to damage 17 even with the slightest of dmg

[@Geozone117]

It's cap

[@TheSuperGoober]

My man giving GT Goku the respect he deserves fr

[@clevercart79]

Gt Goku is still stronger than he said

[@TheSuperGoober]

@@clevercart79 most definitely, it's just that I see so many ppl downplay GT Goku it's ridiculous, and nice to see someone acknowledge a part of his actual power

[@jamalsmith9653]

Ssj4 goku is a fodder character we asf

[@TheSuperGoober]

@@jamalsmith9653 L

[@Son_Yin]

​@@jamalsmith9653L

[@omegaminoseer4539]

This was excellently researched and gloriously well-made. I found the scaling from the movies to be completely wonky, especially since the films make GT Goku somehow a monster beyond compare. Cooler Scaling has always been confusing, so I'm glad you could clarify exactly why his traversal is so impressive.

[@SaiyanScholar]

Welcome to the Grand Tour! Great video man. You put a lot of effort into this one, I can tell. It's good to see more people finally covering GT's overlooked power. Keep it up! 👊

[@Sun_ryo]

W dbgt is a W show

[@Chuck]

Thanks for watching man!

[@lordkai59]

Still ain't beating super

[@1346528000]

Whenever someone talks about GT @Saiyan Scholar will be there

[@power279]

​​@@lordkai59 😂wtf..hahahah..nice joke

[@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375]

These videos are making me want SSJ4 to be canon, seriously it looks so much cooler than color swap forms we are getting these days

[@kjmudkipzofthemudkipdynast2657]

Personally not a big fan of ssj4 design I just don’t really get the hype

[@fugazy2656]

I mean just think of it as another universe canon😊

[@davidsuper773]

Toriyamma should make GT canon

[@ItsKeysama]

I mean the design doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's LEAGUES better than what we have now. I mean, it goes from a golden ape with red eyes to red fur, black/brown hair, and golden or emerald eyes.

[@vegetalover9297]

Nah

[@wukongisas9564]

It's kind of unclear if this is the same Cooler as the metal cooler one due to the movies being in different timelines, but i do agree with 5D scalling for both GT Goku and Frieza and i also think that you can argue immesurable speed for both Golden Frieza due to the macrocosm scalling and the room of time existing in the living world, which is a room that holds all of time. But anyways i am glad both get some love because i like these guy's a lot

[@wukongisas9564]

Also the Beerus statement is even more broken because when i translated it myself with sites like DeepL, it legit stated that homie's power transcends dimensionality

[@reptilian_geneticist]

Metal cooler isn't really cooler, cooler was dead.. Metal cooler is an artificial version of Cooler, or an android.... Just like how the humans that were turned into androids #17 & #18 are actually dead...

[@JakeRider-wc6ke]

Same

[@mandothemandalorian2392]

​@Reptilian_Geneticist I mean same mind body and soul ( she was in the after life she had a kid and she has her personality so yes and no and it's not like krillin did a dead body she is alive with a pulse just now part robot

[@JakeRider-wc6ke]

@@wukongisas9564 Is this true

[@alexdeghost2729]

2:05 Chuck’s character development just shows that he truly is a great character. He’s conquered his character corruption arc!

[@jaidynallen3847]

In this video, you open up my eyes to a little bit of GT’s power that they could exude so I’m wondering if you can do a video comparing Blue Vegito to SSJ4 Gogeta

[@gensischronicles1148]

Gt's scaling is sooo underestimated. The multipliers are insane, already full power ssj4 is crazy powerful

[@matthewzard]

I personally believe that the statement of vigito being stronger than super saiyan 4 meant that the multiplayer is greater. Like if Goku went super sayain 4 in that fight instead of fusing with vageata then he wouldn’t be as powerful as vagito

[@OskyyD1]

Not truly bc his base would of been much much 10 years lower wise as a multiplier

[@derpske]

Bro fix your English

[@picklejarbob8644]

Jesus Christ learn to spell, you spelled vegito two different ways

[@bob-ot8pl]

@@OskyyD1 what? I had a stroke reading that

[@carloscolon3331]

@@bob-ot8pl I had a heart attack reading it

[@error-4269]

Saiyan scholar would say that Super Saiyan 4 Goku would breath and he solos the lizard

[@Chuck]

Lmao

[@error-4269]

@@Chuck yeah he has like videos where he calculated that so many GT characters are like 10000+,50 more zeros stronger than kid boooooooo🐷🍭

[@TheLuuman]

@@error-4269 it is true tho, even when GT goku is slapped harder than ever he still rocked his enemies. Not to mention the only time i saw ssj4 fail was when he was multitasking like 50 different things while fighting his strongest opponent at the time at about 2% health.

[@error-4269]

@@TheLuuman what?

[@TheLuuman]

​@@error-4269 I said what i said, bro was taking the time to save lives balancing buildings and continents on his back. In base form he is stronger than every single dbz villain combined.

[@lightinstinct707]

I noticed the statement with vegito didn’t specify WHO as a ssj4, it just says “stronger than a super saiyan 4” I PERSONALLY think it’s referring to the multiplier

[@HyperJohnua]

Thats what i was thinking too, as the multipliers are very close if we look at them simplified like the guide books did, vegito would be character A + B x 10 then ss x 50

[@privateblockhead211]

Chuck is keeping us fed this month fr, loving all these uploads! Please keep these banger videos coming, bro

[@manofiron5934]

Bruh this is so good

[@Chuck]

Thanks for watching!

[@darktigersharkmax4432]

I would really like if you covered more what if fight scenarios from hyjourinjutsu like gt goku vs super manga goku or just what if scenarios in general

[@Chuck]

Fosho, but I don't have many ideas rn

[@deltalord6969]

Heck yeah another hyourinjutsu fan!Didnt think you knew about him but its nice knowing you watched those animations too theyre really nice

[@Chuck]

They're amazing!

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

I can see SSJ4 Goku giving Frieza a good fight, but not beating him.

[@PerSon-xg3zr]

@@sheroo1000 More like 100x or higher but ok

[@bradlees5997]

@@sheroo1000 never stated, people say that because death battle claimed it was 10X Ssj3. If you do the scaling it’s faaar higher

[@Black_Knight_-BK-]

@@PerSon-xg3zr Have a source?

[@borby4584]

@@Black_Knight_-BK- there's no source on "10x SSJ3" either

[@Black_Knight_-BK-]

@@borby4584 Then these "fans" shouldnt talk about things they know nothing about

[@thedinosavior]

Good video, on the topic of hyorinjutsu he made a full video breaking down the power scale of all the characters in his what ifs. This doesn’t affect this video but something cool to mention.

[@liammcguire1954]

The only SSJ4 Goku that stands a chance against Golden Frieza is Xeno Goku. Edit: let me rephrase that, Xeno Goku would destroy Golden Frieza. Otherwise, GT SSJ4 Goku would be destroyed

[@christophernazario2375]

Love the comments section I swear

[@gregkareem9824]

No lol xeno goku one shots black frieza and the entire dbs verse easily but ssj4 gt goku loses to golden freiza easily even ssg beginning of dbs one shots ssj4 gogeta beyond neg diff I am not being toxic it's true he can be scaled low complex muti or way higher and ssj4 goku is high universal or higher

[@TheRealSlickGoku]

More like he'd fodderize golden frieza

[@liammcguire1954]

@@gregkareem9824 never said that Xeno Goku loses against Black Frieza

[@LemoneMan]

This simply isn't true. The goku at the end of GT that fused with shenron and became *omni potent* literally solos every frieza i can think of.

[@PoxFilms]

This is by far the best power scaling of GT I have ever watched. It’s not too much of a high ball or too much of a low ball. It’s perfect. I’m glad you’re giving justice to the argument

[@Jeffhogleberg_45]

Saiyan scholar better but he deserve the credits he actually does research and is not bias towards super

[@XD-Matrix00]

@@Jeffhogleberg_45no saiyan scholar is biased towards Gt he high balls Gt hard.

[@Jeffhogleberg_45]

@@XD-Matrix00 can u debunk his scale?

[@aster4jaden]

I think SSJ4 could give Golden Frieza a run for his money, especially after I heard Whis acknowledges its power in Xenoverse 2. My Headcanon is SSJ4 is a Saiyans "Mortal Path" of getting stronger like Golden Frieza and Jiren's Super Full Power, instead of taking the "God Path" of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue.

[@ORLY911]

itd be cool if Broly was the one to get SSJ4, that would make people go nuts. It would suit him perfectly.

[@mayojar5264]

as a gt fan im pretty happy with your scale chuck, i may have some disagreements here and there but overall im satisfied.

[@rsingh2346]

Thankyou for the video. I think frieza also scales off of mecha coolers speed feat, because iirc, in promotional material for rof, frieza was stated to be better than his entire family (and i think cooler got mentioned). Attack potency wise, movie beerus was multi solar system tier, but this would be weird since he is way better then all the buu's (atleast one universe buster via daizensuu & anime in buuhan). I pick frieza to win

[@urdailyinformant__]

Bro this quality content is blessing us

[@Th3Sandwich]

The guide you showed with Vegito was a page that was talking about multipliers of the Super Saiyan transformations and brought in Vegito. Meaning that it's saying that if Goku when SS4 against Buuhan instead of fusing with Vegeta then the fight between SS4 Goku and Buuhan would be simular to Vegito vs Buuhan but with Goku having Mid to High-diff than Vegito having no to low-diff.

[@humanman9920]

Vegito had mid-high diff against universal scream of Buuhan

[@CBOUTTHEWAY]

It’s weird though because the potara multiplier is hugeee. Let’s just compare it to fusion for a second. Blue goku and vegeta could do nothing against broly, while ssj gogeta was actually winning.

[@CBOUTTHEWAY]

Doesn’t this mean if goku got ssjb in the buu saga it would be weaker than ssj vegito aswell?

[@DizzyDuo]

There's still people who think kid Buu is stronger then buuhan?

[@Chuck]

You'd be surprised

[@Ocacadordecasadas]

Yeah,the "Its the Last form he used,so It is the strongest" people

[@geodude0744]

Unfortunately so...

[@TakeTheWorld21]

@@ChuckDidn’t Takao Koyama confirm Buuhan was the strongest Buu?

[@izzydonuts4217]

The breakdown involving different scaling options was nice to see. Usually people say "It MuSt Be ThAt X" instead of acknowledging other likely outcomes/power levels of characters. Nice work!

[@gokubread2733]

Damn i didn't know Chuck was a fan of Hyourinjutsu

[@lukesewell295]

Low key wasnt expecting any gt scaling from chuck but pleasantly suprised. W vid and w scaling as always chuck

[@Chuck]

Thanks g!

[@Oz1455]

I like to hear that GT is more competent than people used to give it credit for (including some of you powerscalers, a few years ago). I didn't get how it was almost majorly established among the community that Super was massively superior (at least pre ToP).

[@eobardthawn6903]

There both good imo.

[@xHollow.]

not to mention the writing, symbolism, and the plot were all original and extremely well done. The pacing and Horrid downgraded animation ruined it. Theres a reason why Pan Trunks and Kid Goku were selected to be the main characters. Then how beautifully written to see the Being that helped Goku and the Z fighters up until now (Shenron) turned there backs on em as the FINAL villain of the entire saga. And how Gokus character development was underrated beyond compare.

[@wherearemypowers]

It takes a while for people to accept new metas in the powerscaling community. Unfortunate but that's just how it is.

[@TheLuuman]

because DBS fans are stupid lmao. Super wasn't a very impressive series at first and it took a while for it to feel like dbz again. But after time (and animation budget increasing) they fell in love with it and began hating GT more than ever.

[@satchelharding189]

Good to see you and Clyde back in action

[@Chuck]

Thanks for watching :)

[@MasterCast001]

i mean the fact that uub is kid buu's reincarnation doesnt prove at all he was at his level 7:30 that was massively amped buuhan by gohan levels of rage. We know that, aside from that, he was no match for vegetto

[@omnijonn277]

Chuck. The next battle would be lit. End of GT Goku vs Black Frieza(Post Granola arc)

[@foster9315]

I swear the Metal Cooler instant transmission feat has ruined power scaling as a whole for extended universe DB lol

[@Ktotokroto]

To be fair, If I recall correctly, The Baby Vegeta revenge death ball attack caught up to Kaioshin kai kai, when he was teleporting knocked out Goku off the battlefield. So its not that big of a deal.. At least when scaling GT.

[@shido_rimru_]

It's not that impressive cause garnola did same thing with goku instant transmission lol same with frieza he was able to react to yadrat with instant transmission lol in ToP

[@rice-kuns734]

⁠@@shido_rimru_Instant Transmission has a wind up time which both Frieza and Granolah exploited. In the movie Goku is visibly seen activating Instant Transmission and moving in it while Metal Cooler catches up to him. They then start fighting in the middle of INSTANTANEOUS MOVEMENT! There is a stark difference.

[@HelenaSan425]

This fight would be really cool but Golden Frieza takes it Super Saiyan 4 has the best design in the franchise

[@Chuck]

Truu

[@vegetalover9297]

MUI>>>

[@laffywaffy1989]

​@@vegetalover9297 what's makes ui best and unique design wise over ss4 UI nothing stands out just like every other sayian form just recolored of super Saiyan

[@Jakebusche]

Finally, not only do I know how to say Hyroiunjutsu now, but also someone else watched the video. If anyone gets a chance, watch Super Goku vs GT Goku by him also. It’s freaking amazing and shows GT Gokus extreme stamina compared to God

[@Chuck]

It is pretty good too!

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

that video is the worst he's ever made, it's nonstop headcanon, blatantly biased in GT's favor.

[@RedMist97]

The Super Goku vs GT goku was biased as hell, he even went further and not only chose a weaker version of Super goku but he also let gt goku make a wish to make him an adult again

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

@@RedMist97 and he, for some goddamn reason, gave GT Goku SSGrade 4, but not Super Goku...? and he gave him Trunks' powered-up SS2, FROM Super??? and he literally just made up that him having a tail completely removed any stamina issues with SS3??????????? like, yeah, it's pure nonsense.

[@powerjolt7215]

Both Goku's were nerfed in that video too. Still a great fight nonetheless. GT Goku was especially weaker than he should've been

[@enforcer0175]

I just like how my boy Metal Cooler is relevant to this comparison. That fight in Movie 6 is one of my favorites in all of Dragonball, and I love that it has implications so much further down the line.

[@_DatDaft_]

not to mention (correct me if im wrong) SSJ4 would also grow stronger with the user, because of the hole "SSJ4 draws out the Battle Power which Saiyans posses to its utmost limits" that was said in the GT Perfect Files, meaning it would act similar to the Ultimate Form/Mystic Form/Potential Unleashed Form (what ever you wanna call it) Elder Kai Unlocked for Gohan. so if thats true, then that would mean SSJ4 has (*hypothetically*) no limits to its power, meaning it could become stronger then Forms like SSJB, SSJB Evolve, UI ect, given enough time that is, and theres the hole Full Power SSJ4 and Super Full Power SSJ4 which would add even more of a boost to its power. and just gonna throw this one in here aswell, but (*apparently*) in one of the GT Guide Books (while typing this, im still trying to find it and see if its real or not, so if you have any infomation about it, please tell me, thanks) it said that SSJ4 Gogeta has "Unlimited Power", which if thats true.......... then SSJ4 Gogeta is hella OP.

[@SonZackSSJ2]

But that’s not true, if he had unlimited energy he would’ve stayed fused longer and don’t look at guidebooks, it has awful scaling.

[@_DatDaft_]

@@SonZackSSJ2 that’s why I literally said, i don’t know if it’s true or not, but SSJ4 Gogeta would have literally almost no limits to his power, since Gogeta would have even more potential then Goku and Vegeta, and I mean SSJ4 is still to this day the only Form thats been soo powerful that it’s reduced a Fusions Timelimit all the way down to only 10 minutes when it’s usually 30 minutes. Which also, what you said makes zero sense, “if Gogeta had Unlimited Energy, he wouldn’t have defused” that’s not how Fusions work, Fusions can’t last forever, unless you’re a Kai using the Potaras, then it will last forever, the more power a Fusion has doesn’t make its Timelimit last longer, same with if it had less power, it’s not gonna reduce its Timelimit, we’ve seen Goku and Vegeta, and even both Goten and Trunks fail the Fusion Dance multiple times, which doesn’t make them that strong, and yet they still have to wait 30 minutes before Defusing, SSJ4 Gogeta Defused soo fast because SSJ4 was waaaaay to powerful, to the point where it somehow effected the Fusions Timelimit. Edit: also, I’m not just looking at the GT Perfect Files, I’m also looking at the actual Show aswell.

[@r1ngs400]

Excellent vid, never watched GT so seeing this stuff out of context makes it look awesome.

[@deaglehawkings2543]

I'm glad you gave hyourinjutsu a shoutout, his sprite animations give more character development than any dbs episode especially with MUI Goku vs UE Vegeta.

[@genesismultiverse4896]

You know the fact there are people who downplay gt to the point they say gt goku is galaxy level really makes me apriciate people like chuck actually watch gt to talk on feets and stuff

[@ajones6631]

Unless its zeno goku i don't see things going well for him

[@lasthope3237]

Bro I want to debate how wrong you are but I don’t have any energy right now

[@xjustanotherpersonx7967]

​@@lasthope3237 Sounds like excuses

[@DoobieWayne]

The best power scaling videos on the internet. Love you Chuck

[@Chuck]

Thanks g!

[@twainsbrain1913]

Great video! Btw, I think Beerus scales well above all villains, both GT and Super as Beerus is just absolutely the strongest character in universe 7 at this point (excluding Whis who isn't from Universe 7 really), even in the current manga. I can't tell if you were scaling him by what we knew at the time of Golden Frieza's appearance, but I think it is safe to say that even the likes of GT's strongest antagonists get dropped by A God of Destruction. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[@eobardthawn6903]

For sure Beerus would win, though their is weaker God's of Destruction that could mabye win.

[@twainsbrain1913]

@@eobardthawn6903 I can't tell exactly what you mean. If you mean that Beerus isn't the strongest GoD then you are probably correct, I'm going to assume it is Jiren's since that Universe was just built different. If you are saying that the likes of Omega Shenron could beat a GoD that is weaker than Beerus, MAYBE Champa because of all that extra weight, but that's a huge maybe.

[@eobardthawn6903]

@@twainsbrain1913 In the manga Beerus is the strongest. Belmod just won at an arm wrestle. He was able for fight the God's basically all at once. I think the mouse guy was the only one standing, but I could be wrong. In the anime it alludes Belmod>Beerus

[@twainsbrain1913]

@@eobardthawn6903 Ultra Ego Vegeta will most likely surpass Beerus at some point, maybe the final arc. Goku will also probably end the strongest so he'll be stronger too. At this point, I can't even tell who the final villain is, since no one really seems like a threat outside of Frieza, and I doubt Frieza is currently as strong as Beerus. So unless Whis or even the Grand Priest is an evil mastermind or something, I can't think of an antagonist that would push Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus. Sorry for the rant, it's just something that has been on my mind since reading through Granolah.

[@eobardthawn6903]

@@twainsbrain1913 If Beerus had a fair fight with Super Saiyan God logically he shouldn't be stronger then them now. He is just because they keep buffing him to stay on top. Black Freiza should be powerful enough to beat Beerus high diff due to how powerful he is. He isn't because he keeps getting buffed.

[@TheOneWhoReportsForDuty]

I love watching Hyourinjutsu! Such a great animator and it’s always a great battle when you get their videos recommended.

[@Chuck]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@vincentvaughn4766]

GT goku’s power was surrpressed due to being in the body of a child but if he were to have his adult body he could bring out more of his power then he could as a kid.

[@TyzThePhoenix]

I’ve been downplaying omega this whole time putting him at living universal only instead of macrocosm. Thanks for clearing that up for me

[@RackerTheRascalMashup]

so in both ways, gt goku has a chance if he's able to wear down golden frieza if it's the first time golden frieza shows up due to stamina

[@zerechan]

He's back with the consistent uploads!

[@Chuck]

Kinda haha

[@Ts-lz1gj]

To be honest everyone always says that this form can beat this form, when it really just depends on what level of power is the for is at currently after fighting this person or this training. For example, ssj 2 goku during the buu arc couldn’t have beaten Zamasu in dragon ball super because this form didn’t encountered lord beeras yet. Goku gained god ki so he was able to beat Zamasu. But with out it he would have lost. Ssj trunks kept loosing to the androids in future. His normal ssj form wasn’t at a level to beat them until after he trained with the z fighters. It always depends on at what level of power the form is at. So xeno goku ssj 4 could definitely beat golden frieza because he gained god ki.

[@Black_Knight_-BK-]

GT would get oneshotted by SSG Goku in BOG. And if SS4 was used by a god ki user, then I feel it could have potential to grow mid battle like Broly's Ikari form. DBSH is messy in terms of powerscaling and sense, but yeah. He's stronger

[@mrmemes5191]

Xeno Goku in his base is far more powerful than every single character in the canon series. Including Zeno. SDBH characters are not the same as the mainline versions of them.

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

@@Black_Knight_-BK- yup

[@powerjolt7215]

Tbf Xeno Goku is the only person we know to have had both ssg and ssj4. He prefers 4 for a reason and that may be the hax and the raw power being much higher.

[@omnijonn277]

Ultimate Piccolo vs Moro arc Goku

[@AJotasticGamer]

Chuck has been in the Time Chamber waiting to release all the bangers

[@josegarza2853]

I do see GT Goku beating Golden Frieza from the movie version, but in the anime version, Golden Frieza takes it. Great video my dude! 👌🏼

[@Chuck]

Thank you!

[@RobinTheMetaGod]

@@Chuck The SSJ 4 will always be weaker than SSJ God.

[@OldFolkz]

@Robin The Meta God have you actually watched gt? Cause im pretty sure you cant actually use logic to defend this cap statement you just made

[@RobinTheMetaGod]

@@OldFolkz The guy thinks Buu, even Kid, is Galaxy levels. The guy also forgets that Goku SSJ God is nearly destroying the Universe against Beerus making him nearly Universe levels or higher. Goku base form in GT has a power level of 24 billion so times the SSJ 3 you get upto 9.6 trillion and times 10 for Oozaro you get 96 trillion them for SSJ4 you have to guess it but I say another 10x so 960 trillion. You throw the Gogeta into this you have 120 (1+1x60) for 115.2 quadrillion. There are multiple ways to calculate the SSJ God. For me I searched up the mass of the Universe in ton, then you decide the tonnage by 6 sextillion or one planet, multiply by 10'000 because to destroy a planet you must have a power level of 10'000, then devide by 100 for 1 per cent of the Universal power then you have the power level or you can devide by about 60'000'000 to Goku base for the multiplier of transformation. You have a power level of over an octillion. The SSJ4 will always be weaker than SSJ God.

[@RobinTheMetaGod]

@loxt2 Can you not read?

[@Inxanniti]

Hey Chuck, I really enjoyed your What-If content, especially this new one. I wanted to point out at 5:10 in your vid about mentioning Cooler in connections to GT. This goes w/o saying that if you were to compare any character using the films that you should also mention that most of the exist in the same timeline. I'll list some examples below. 1. Icarus, he appears from Movies 3-5, Tree of Might, Lord Slug, and Cooler's Revenge 2. Lord Slug takes place immediately after Tree of Might since the ending scene shows Piccolo by the waterfall, whereas in Lord Slug, Gohan appears with Icarus at the waterfall. 3. The OVA: Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans (or Super Saiyans), includes Turles, Slug, and Cooler, alongside name dropping Broly which also includes his trilogy. 4. mentioning the Dragon Fist from Wrath of the Dragon, since it also includes the sword used by Trunks when the movie ends with Tapion gifting it. 5. Fusion Reborn, since it includes Gogeta's first anime appearance which also correlates to Goku and Vegeta knowing the fusion dance past this point when battling Omega Shenron. 6. If Fusion Reborn, is included then majority of the movie villains including lackeys: Zangya, Salza, Crusher Corp, etc are included. This also includes Bojack himself There's probably more examples to list but these are the most relevant ones from the top of my head, I highly recommend you check out Dragon Ball University regarding his series on "Why the Dragon Ball Movies CAN'T Happen!". This doesn't undermine your recent What If Dragon Ball videos by no means, but for more statements and feats you might wanna include going forward. Appreciate the content and thank you! (Sorry for the rant)

[@manicrhymes9552]

I still wanna see a full scaling of the Xeno And CC versions of Vegeta. I've looked into it and holy hell the scaling is insane

[@Chuck]

I'll be redoing a Xeno Goku video eventually!

[@manicrhymes9552]

@@Chuck Where's the love for the prince of chadness?

[@Chuck]

eHHHH

[@AceTheBatHound99]

Awesome video, I've wondered this a few times myself! Also maybe we can get your thoughts on, Johnathan Kent Vs. Beast Gohan?

[@brentlybennett357]

Ss4 Goku's ' RIZZ ' puts him at Black Frieza's level.

[@user153xhzbso8e]

Nah Black Frieza solos via having the N-Word pass.

[@brentlybennett357]

Frieza duz have sauce, and the double close-ilne gut buster to Goku and Vegeta proves he be cooking my boy.

[@totallysupershoelace256]

Back to back uploads? Keep it up chuck don't overdue it though

[@sitachi4058]

Its all fun and games for ssj4 till Frieza pulls out the timbs and the henny...

[@MajinBlueTheFutureMade]

This was an indcredible fair scaling, don't see that everyday.

[@Chuck]

Thanks for watching!

[@genericwhitemale9566]

So SSJ4 Goku only stands a chance if we give SSJ4 Goku Cooler's Revenge Goku's feats.

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

...which is a bit of a stretch to do, based on a literal split-second cameo.

[@ekoyal_gemu4446]

GT Goku is a force to be reckoned with. GT was literally Dragon Ball Z not bound by the whole God of destruction and God keep plotline meaning Goku can basically do what he wants and get as strong as he wants. Not to mention all of the movies are Canon to GT as well.

[@dl0680]

Sorry to disappoint the GTtards but GT Goku gets his ass torn off and handed to himself by Golden Frieza with no difficulty.

[@rundas2141]

In all truth, while I am a big fan of GT due to nostalgic reasons, I know Dragon Ball Super scales way above GT. So I was expecting a one-sided argument saying Golden Frieza would just slap SSJ4 Goku. I was surprised to see that, if certain circumstances were taken into consideration, that SSJ4 Goku could have a chance. I can certainly appreciate this type of content.

[@Chuck]

Thanks for watching!

[@volcanicz6739]

Didn't Koyama state that Broly is the strongest movie villain pre-beerus? You can probably use that statement to add to frieza's side

[@JimmySogni]

Yeah yeah great video for sure, the Black ops 3 music tho?????? YOU THOUGHT I WOULD NOT NOTICE!?

[@nazimkhan6322]

If they make SSJ4 canon, I have no doubt they will make it as strong as Black Frieza.

[@NathanRibeirodeFrancaYegrosFer]

I think it would scale at MUI and UE, but could be stacked with both making it the same level as Black Frieza. It would make narrative sene in a way as it would be their (Goku's and Vegeta's) saiyan nature combined with their respective god powers. Plus it would be cool as hell

[@justintime1838]

they missed that opportunity instead of giving gohan that beast form ss4 easily couldve been exclusive to gohan

[@101mrcrazyman]

​@@justintime1838 if the writers had half a brain

[@luminousxii]

​@@101mrcrazymanyou niggas would've complained and called them lazy regardless

[@georgiepig5726]

@@justintime1838 eh honestly i think super saiyan 4 fits better with broly he IS the only one with any link to the great ape form through his wrathful/ikari/whatever the fuck else the forms called it may have a million names at this point plus the beast form gohan has kinda fits him more minus the chunky ass hair but i think the og white super saiyan hair colour mixed with the red eyes the super saiyan form originally was supposed to have fits better with gohan especially since the iconic green eyes of the super saiyan form were meant to only appear once a saiyan had mastered the super saiyan form

[@Amikas117]

GT Goku is mad underrated, but I'm giving it to Frieza overall. Beerus's appearance basically added a dimensional tier of power, and Frieza gave Goku a good fight after he trained with god ki. If we take stuff from heroes seriously (which is a big ask, but hear me out), Xeno Goku is a version of Goku with some god ki and SSJ4, and he ends up being roughly equal to SSB Goku. My take is that SSJ4 GT Goku would get overpowered by Golden Frieza, because he lacks the god ki to back him up. As always, great analysis.

[@Chuck]

Xeno Goku is actually superior in the anime version as inferred by a guide, but yeah, thanks for watching!

[@humanman9920]

Xeno Goku did not have god ki before limit breaker

[@tyrannotherium7873]

Honestly, I think in the beginning of the fight just like in ROF movie and anime freiza would have the advantage and if he runs out of stamina than ssj4 goku would destroy him

[@ryansims380]

Another great vid chuck, and I like the plug at the beginning. Dudes sprite animations and break downs are top notch.

[@Chuck]

Thanks! Yes they are!

[@TakeTheWorld21]

The original Z movie run kinda has to apply to GT since Goku knows Dragon Fist and Vegeta knew the Fusion Dance, so GT Goku would definitely speed blitz but would definitively STOMP if we hypothetically apply in Xeno Goku since he is GT Goku that went through the Z movies as well as Battle of Gods. This is only HYPOTHETICALLY if we say Battle of Gods and even F are canon to GT.

[@OskyyD1]

Xeno goku is not gt goku, he was created by the Supreme Kai of time, but if u mean he went thru similar events then yes

[@Talesofaweedsmoker]

So we have three gokus Super Goku GT Goku and Xeno Goku also the Goku from that weird arcade game universe

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

nope. Dragon Fist doesn't mean Hirudegan had to exist, Fusion doesn't mean Janenba, and neither of them mean the other movies. none, and I mean NOT A SINGLE ONE, of the Z movies can fit into the main continuity, anime or manga, and we see no definitive proof that they happened in GT. and, using Xeno Goku to scale GT is next-level stupid, they're literally two completely different Gokus.

[@terrakage4462]

⁠@@BlackScreenProductions125I mean. Explain vegeta knowing the fusion dance and can do it first try no problem. He even suggests it. He had to have done it before to not make a single mistake during the dance imo

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

@@terrakage4462 I mean, that just means they fused at some point in the past, doesn't mean they had to have fused against Janenba, specifically. plus, he could've just, figured it out, from having seen Goten and Trunks do it, or possibly leftover knowledge from Bebi, having previously possessed Goten before him. point is, there are plenty of explanations that don't require reliance on canon-breaking movies.

[@DouglasAmaral-p8h]

The Broly Z film is also Canon because in the games themselves, where Toei has the help and collaboration, it was shown that GokuGT knew Broly from Z. And with the super characters he didn't know and didn't even have lines for those characters, but for the villains in the films, Goku GT has lines and quotes from the past, that is, Goku GT is the Than the movies.

[@JeSsE10mCcOy11]

Now that I've seen this, I want SSJ4 to be canon even more

[@Chuck]

On god!

[@spritvio639]

I think we'll see it eventually. It seems like Toyotaro likes GT since he likes to throw in Easter eggs from time to time in the manga, and he has said that he likes drawing SSJ4.

[@najibosman6497]

⁠@@spritvio639 yeah but that doesn’t mean anything considering the fact goku and vegeta are both focusing on their god forms respectively, ultra instinct and ultra ego, so shoehorning a form so many like for fan service is extremely tacky

[@VoicedPlanet]

​@najibosman6497 bruh that ship sailed like 7 transformations ago 😂 I don't think that care about seeming tacky anymore. That being said, I do agree that it feels pointless to connect current events to end of Z and then GT because it just opens a box that they won't be able to close adequately

[@sevirakalau2171]

@@VoicedPlanet Give ssj4 to broly, retcon it to be a part of the LSS Transformations

[@davimedina5165]

You forgot to mention Goku's speed feat against Hit which could be considered Immeasurable speed as well since time skip is a time travel technique and goku being able to move inside it with Kaioken would be Immeasurable speed since it breaks the speed equation, there's also a DBS manga databook in which states that the Gods of Destruction transcend time and space which would scale UI Goku to this level since he scales to Jiren and Jiren scales above Belmod

[@Yokai_Yuri]

Short answer: No, not at all. Long answer: If this is composite Goku in ssj4 form, then yes, sure. We can use Xeno's Goku and might be able to. Even so what is important is that Frieza claps goku right now and that is not gonna change anytime soon.

[@NMbones98]

Another banger always loved the ssj4 transformation

[@Lioleusu]

Gt is unironically very underrated and frequently ignored when discussing Dragon Ball powerscaling.

[@Th3Sandwich]

Agreed

[@OldFolkz]

If this is super 27 ir beyond the short answer is GT goku actually just violates. But chuck... man what can i say other than you're on fire with these uploads. I've been really missing these types of videos lately 🙏🏾

[@Muscletearror]

GT Goku would wipe the floor with golden frieza

[@genesismultiverse4896]

And wouldnt bring salt since its enough of a beatdown

[@siirgeatz613]

Another good DB match up

[@Chuck]

Thanks for watching!

[@Drumicall]

Easily and he wouldn't even need to go past ssj2

[@gabebreeify]

just wrong bro ur crazy

[@LavaCreeperPeople]

Goku ssjg>>>>>Super Vegito Buu saga Goku ssj4=Super Vegito Buu saga Nope

[@michaelgarcia5680]

I see your making up for lost time Chuck! Keep up the great work.

[@Chuck]

Thank you, I will

[@OfficialNice]

People just now realizing how great gt was, the design, the creativity, and most of the story are perfect.

[@mrmemes5191]

not true. super 17 sucked, black star dragon ball saga sucked, shadow dragons could have been massively better. The only good arc was the Baby arc imo. The designs were pretty good, obv SS4 takes the cake.

[@flexino7639]

Only good thing about GT was SS4

[@lordraiden7397]

The average AI generated GT stan response. GT is just as trash as Super.

[@mrmemes5191]

@loxt993 Super 17 had an interesting idea behind it but the execution wasn't good. Shadow Dragons was mid or even bad until Syn showed up. With admittedly good action throughout.

[@webslinger4733]

Two of the four arcs being ok at best, and the other 2 being dogwater isn’t “most of the story being perfect”

[@trevorcunning6248]

Great video. SSJ4 is the best form in my opinion.

[@thefirstprime0124]

Didnt the person who said Broly was the strongest villain say that beerus was above him and thats obvious but since ssjg goku was able to contend against wouldn't that mean that freiza is faster then cooler?

[@KrowleyPineapples777]

Another masterpiece! Im addicted to them!

[@josephkingman523]

Well considering this freiza was in hell for 10 years he could have achieved black form at this point, so that gold freiza was probably stronger then resurrection f freiza

[@yfr7759]

3 videos in the span of 2 days!?!?! Let's go Chuck keep it up!!!

[@Chuck]

Thanks g

[@TheFrew]

Even if you dont want to count the cooler thing as an outlier and give goku that speed it like a fly trying to hurt a t rex hit hits wont do much.

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

exactly. all Freeza has to do is nuke the area, Goku's gone.

[@TheFrew]

@@BlackScreenProductions125 and we know in character he will do that

[@Darbzila]

I'll take anything GT Thanks Chuck!

[@videoforlife7086]

In Hyourginjutsu (sorry if I butchered the name) had frieza training after he died to obtain golden form, (and well, given frieza's ridiculous potential) Frieza trained for 10 years to get Black Frieza and if this frieza trained for 50 (I think, given based off gt goku's age) wouldn't that make him ridiculously stronger than 10 years of training frieza?

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

well, that Freeza trained for, if my estimates are right, around 30 years, not 50, but yes, he would theoretically be the strongest Freeza ever.

[@videoforlife7086]

Ok, so, between manga frieza with the black form and this metaphorical version of frieza. Would the black frieza be superior or be evenly matched?

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

@@videoforlife7086 impossible to say, really.

[@kameronshope6637]

If you want to you could figure out ssg's multiplier from the movie version of bog as well. And in the movie for rof its stated by goku that ssb only fully taps into the power of ssg without really being the ssj version of it (weird I know, but that was only added in when super came out). Based off of that it's pretty easy to scale ssj4s multiplier to be far higher than ssbs and by extension through the scaling of gt goku vs rof goku, very easy to scale ssj4 goku to be far above golden frieza in rof.

[@Sploggerr]

As headcannon I like to believe ssj4 could keep up with ssjb. Then super full power saiyan 4 could keep up with ssjb kiaoken

[@liammcguire1954]

Evidence?

[@pizzavictory113]

@@liammcguire1954 He literally Just said it’s his headcanon Bro

[@somethingrandom3961]

So I think I should mention this, super-dimensional can also be defined as "beyond the concept of dimensions" so using that definition would bring the scaling to an entirely different level.

[@playtetris6524]

Ssshhhh 🤫🤫🤫, that's a scale for another day, lol.

[@MasterTemplar781]

I don't know who says that BOG and ROF are canon to GT bc that is complete and utter BS! First of all we already saw what SSG could do and that would also mean that GT Goku would have SSB same for Vegeta with the first question being WHY DO THEY NEVER USE IT! WHY IS BEERUS NOT MENTIONED IN GT! WHY DOES FRIEZA NOT USE GOLDEN FORMS IN GT! WHY IS WHIS NOT MENTIONED EITHER! Saying that those movies are canon to GT is like saying GT and all movies are canon to Super even tho GT is confirmed uncanon.

[@9xFalse]

Hyourinjustu is such a good ytber his vids are W

[@Chuck]

Yessir

[@TakeshiInazuma]

The problem qith scaling Movies with GT, is that the movies don't even fit with each other, let alone with GT. Some say Movie 12 is canon, but it doesn't fit with DBZ.

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

yeah, and, using a cameo appearance from Coora to say that M5/6 happened in GT is a bit of a reach, when both movies break Z continuity, and we don't get anything to confirm it's the same Coora.

[@TakeshiInazuma]

@@BlackScreenProductions125 Exactly, a cameo with no relevance to the plot, name mention, or even speaking lines, shows it was mostly an animator just drawing him to fill in past villains, not to indicate the movies happened. Why would Coora not be next to Frieza trying to fight Goku?

[@BlackScreenProductions125]

@@TakeshiInazuma yup, but hey, he's there, Goku knows the dragon fist, and Vegeta knows how to fuse, therefore literally every single Z movie has to have happened exactly as shown, obviously.

[@TakeshiInazuma]

​@@BlackScreenProductions125😂I know right

[@JoesMama-ci3yl]

It would be supremely funny to see ss4 Goku in the beast boy sticking up four fingers template.

[@Jochugumo]

Sadly I don't think GT reached universal levels until Gogeta and Omega Shenron, Omega was stated to be affected the universe with his evil ki, Gogeta clowned him, and Omega was defeated by A "Universal" Spirit Bomb I think Frieza is stomping here

[@zill0678]

agreed

[@humanman9920]

Nope lol , that stated feat of Omega was through the weakest dragon's ability that black aura one , he was gonna destroy the universe by just existing , negative karma ball is his strongest attack since it has negative energy of all dragon balls not just one let alone the weakest and can only be assumed to be his power level or above . " Universal " spirit bomb is taking energy from people all over the universe not universal in scale . You really mean they killed Kid buu with multiplanetary spirit bomb? Even Cell was said to be solar system level and got beat by an ssj2 . Now that the debunk is done let's get to the actual scaling , GT reached universal+ when Super baby 2's revenge death ball warped Goku further than kaioshin realm from inside the mortal universe , dbs Goku's best power feat was a dc one almost destroying universe with Beeru's help . Revenge death ball's ap scales higher than that , dbs Goku isn't only winning a dc contest but is getting destroyed in a fight because lower scaling feats. GT Goku could shake hell in his base with the shocks reaching past it to King Yemma's place which is 1/3rd+ of universal compared BoG Goku's 1/2 of universe . Even in speed dbs characters only surpass instant transmission vanish speed in Granola arc of the manga while GT Goku and Baby already did it in baby arc, baby's revenge death ball already caught Goku after he vanished with kibito kai's instant teleportation , in physical movement baby's golden great ape form was about to hit ssj4 Goku with an attack right as he was about to teleport him to kaioshin realm with IT and so Goku also just dodged the attack instead of using IT .

[@jafsjafs8820]

@@humanman9920 the fact here is this: DBS Goku in base>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all dbgt characters.

[@danteshollowedgrounds]

no idea but the idea is nuttingly good

[@freshprinceofgettingdisres2089]

Doesn’t goku nullify any attack that comes at him at the end of gt

[@francescocalce6208]

yes it is called change state goku but most of the fandom forgot about it

[@TheOriginalDx1]

Ofcourse when read the title I just said "no" and scolled on, but when I saw it was chuck I had to watch because I knew he would have a reason to post this