Could The T'au Be Descended From The Necrontyr? - 40K Theories

[@40KTheories]

This topic is a "sister video" to a video pondering whether or not the T'au are artificially engineered. To view that particular video, click here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZKVoauVltdradU

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

Could you make a Beastmen video since they might actually have the same origins from fantasy or still be considered ab-han created by human for some reason

[@karolkwiecjasz9356]

I think its more likely humanity descented from the necrontyr.

[@supersaiyandiclonius3056]

A follow up theory: Could the Ethereals be descendants of a Tau born from a shard of the Emperor's shattered soul. (It does match the timeline, and the Ethereals are following Big E's MO)

[@Bardghost_Isu]

Haha, I just rewatched that one yesterday and this videos question did come to mind considering the mention of the Tau having a short life span…

[@HunterSentinel]

Oh I had this theory too!!!! And the ethereal are using shards of the Katan!!!

[@patricksmith7626]

I have always believed the Tau where a modern incarnation of the Necrontyr. So this is a "force me to question my assumptions" interaction. Thank you.

[@weedling3552]

i think their main symbols are a dead giveaway.

[@BehindThePringles]

Guardsman 1: “The T’au have no nose.” Guardsman 2: “How do they smell?” Guardsman 1: “Terrible.”

[@40KTheories]

"Sadly the Imperium's attempt at counteracting the weaponised jokes of the T'au Empire were feeble, at best."

[@BehindThePringles]

@@40KTheories 😂👍

[@raipe125]

That what she said to kitten

[@Ajehy]

“Don’t even get me started about the smell.” - Inquisitor Amberly Vail, Ordo Xenos, talking about Tau guts.

[@richardgrant2630]

Sixty million years ago (Paleocene) "humans" looked more like lemurs. If whales can evolve into sea creatures then back to land dwellers the back to sea critters in a few tens of millions of years, then I suppose pre-robot death pharaohs can evolve to Tao-noids.

[@ReverseBees]

Wasn't the original lore that the Necrontyr homeworld orbitted an unstable star that gave them all cancer? It would actually be really helpful if you could do a video clarifying the necron retcon (retcron?) what changed, what is still plausible and what has been superceded by the new lore? That's one area I'm really not clear on.

[@lunaurum3515]

That's still true. It effectively ruined their genetics, making the whole species have short lifespans even if they left the homeworld

[@MSte21]

@@lunaurum3515 Honestly, I never understood how the Necrontyr - with all their magic technology - couldn't extend their lifespans without turning into soulless cybernetic robots. It just feels poorly thought out.

[@latayantheazran]

@@MSte21 well, neither did the necrontyr undesteand it. Its their irony. All that science and they never figured out how, so they made a pact with the devil to solve their problems.

[@mytimetravellingdog]

@@MSte21 biology is very very hard. One does suspect they were able to improve lifespans with technology. But it seems likely their biological form was unstable on genetic level so there was never an escape.

[@albertp3721]

@@MSte21 didn't they try to get the secret of longevity from the Old Ones, if so then they did actually try right? Necrontyr society from what I read is very politically unstable and they're also losing the war against the Old ones which led them taking a drastic measure

[@anthonylamonica8301]

Honestly, the one true defining characteristic of the T'au is how obscenely _lucky_ they are in the grand scheme of things. _Unnaturally_ lucky, in fact. Regardless as to what they evolved _from_ they nonetheless evolved on an out-of-the-way world near the middle of a dense stellar cluster composed of hundreds or even _thousands_ of star systems, each of which would provide vast amounts of resources and or habitable worlds in the future. They, by chance, evolved as beings with relatively weak souls, which gives them innate protection from Warp Predators. Also by chance, they evolved during a time when the Imperium simply didn't feel like Virus Bombing them into oblivion when they had the chance, when there were only a few thousand T'au on their home-world who had just entered their Stone Age, and thus didn't pose any threat to Mankind at all. By the time the Imperium would've considered changing their minds, a massive series of Warp Storms randomly cut off the entire stellar cluster from Imperial intrusion, only abating after enough time had passed for the T'au to have already colonized a fair amount of their neighboring systems. Culturally, the T'au are _vastly_ more unified than any of the other spacefaring civilizations in the Milky Way, except for _maybe_ the Craftworld Eldar, which means internal conflict is rare, and seldom disruptive to their overall operations. By sheer happenstance, the T'au are also young enough as a species to have not developed any major taboos about developing new technologies or reverse-engineering the gear of other factions yet, which allows them to advance at a _much_ faster rate than the other players in the Milky Way. All of these _coincidences_ came together to give the T'au the most _ideal_ start that a spacefaring civilization could ever hope to have, at least since before the War in Heaven occurred.

[@anthonylamonica8301]

@themesongfan I'd hope not. Engineering an entire species to be specifically incorruptible and unassailable is a _very_ bad idea; the Old Ones tried this a few times, and now we have those damned Orks everywhere.

[@MSte21]

So, who benefits from engineering a race with weak souls and also have the capability to generate Warp Storms on command?

[@Chapien]

@@MSte21 Eldar, perhaps? There's a longstanding theory that the tau were genetically engineered by the eldar.

[@bigz4339]

They just had all the cheat codes turned on.

[@JiyuKishiParn]

What if they were engineered by Szarekh?

[@Tigo625]

It never sat right with me as to how no original Necrontyr societies survived, but I like the Tau just being the Tau, another alien species.

[@wepntech]

what if they where manipulated with at some point. or maybe one of the casts is maybe desendant of necrontyr.

[@gargoyles9999]

It’s almost like there was an apocalyptic galaxy wide war involving literal gods

[@inthefade]

For sure some would have survived somewhere in the galaxy. They probably have, but with hundreds of billions of star systems we only hear about a tiny fraction of the races and cultures in 40K. Way more is completely unknown than known.

[@weedling3552]

i think it is very likely they are basically necrontyr exodites. necrintyr that escaped maybe even before the war in heaven. maybe they were a cult that isolated itself, a crashed colony ship or an experiment. i think it could be that they wanted to isolate the least corrupted and crippled of them. restart and right their evolution. maybe they even spliced some other dna into themselves, to cure themselves, thats why they have hooves now. just look a their symbols. they look suspiciously similar. the etherials are the keepers of that knowledge. likely the descendants of the scientists in charge. so: they alter and hypercharge the evolution in a select group of necrontyr, drop them on an isolated planet, wait a few thousand years, the empire falls in that time, the descendants of the scientists join the test subjects as the etherials and the tau empire is born. the goal is to cure the necrontyr (maybe the should just be just tyr or now tau) seriously why do their symbols look like variants? old ones created other races to win. the necrontyr spliced themselves with others to survive.

[@scorpiovenator_4736]

I expect that any did survive were wiped out by the eldar after the war in heaven

[@akumaking1]

Maybe Trazyn the Infinite has something in his vault to clarify . . .

[@mazse18]

Well, I'm a Necron player. There may be some truth to this theory, and I'm guessing this, but doesn't the Tau symbol (the circle with the straight line), look similar to the Necrons Ankh symbol? Minus some extra lines around the circle and the colouration, they are very similar

[@fourfingered4479]

It’s because the tau were aesthetically based on Egyptians and the Middle East/eastern world. It’s in the design articles.

[@CleoPinto4317]

Actually tau technology is based on animie such as gundam wing

[@toastsloth4831]

@@fourfingered4479 huh u sure ? wasnt that the necrons which were based on egyptions, arent the tau like various countries in asia ?

[@johnfraire6931]

@@fourfingered4479 You know, I felt like the Greater Good had some parallels to the Islamic Golden Age; all these medieval-esque warlords in the Imperium living in a dark age while the T'au were actively expanding and advancing

[@gargoyles9999]

Yes aside from design and colour the symbols are very similar

[@jeangale6914]

Wasn't there a necron who at seeing the Tau for the first time reminded him of his previous self before the biotransference, I don't remember the book but I think it was mentioned once.

[@40KTheories]

Not that I'm aware of. If you can find the book it was mentioned in I would appreciate it!

[@jeangale6914]

@@40KTheories I've looking and it appears that there might be a reference in 40k Gladius game according some, but that is all I could find.

[@jekabsviksna]

What if some of Necrontyr was maliciously manipulated by old ones, like humans in All the Tomorrows, and Tau are resurgent intelligent species of those experiments?

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

Doesn't sound like something the Old Ones would do

[@jekabsviksna]

@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 Yes, but they're semi-divine alien toadmonsters, so go figure what they actually will or won't do.

[@akumaking1]

@@jekabsviksna the Old Ones are the shitty neglectful grandparents of life

[@AmerikanSkull]

Depending on environmental, cultural, and placement of their homeworld within its solar system, a massive change of physical structure is possible. This has been seen with many animals on Earth, for example whales. The ancestors of whales were similar in appearence to dogs, but overtime due to their semi aquatic nature, their bodys evolved to fit a more aquatic lifestyle. So while a more strained theory, it is slightly possible for the T'au to be descended from Necrons.

[@toastsloth4831]

they care about life 2 much like instead of genociding the necrontry which ya know caused their downfall, they too nice,

[@Knights_Oath]

Decedents or not, the blueberries are excellent candidates to be used to reverse the biotransference.

[@fourfingered4479]

Pretty short lived. Better to just use human nulls.

[@charion1234]

@@fourfingered4479 apparently even humans are short lived although not by much to the Necrontyr's natural lifetime. I kinda wish that we knew how long they did live.

[@nyrukdaerog3973]

Team up with drukhari and grow soulless custom bodies.

[@thenarkknight278]

They're weak,short lived e.t.c they're bodies arent the ideal for a reversed biotransfere .

[@fourfingered4479]

@@thenarkknight278 I mean; they’re “human” scaled strength. So in light of every other species… yeah. Kinda weak.

[@coryshepherd2802]

I love that you pointed out the difference in foot posture of the necrons vs tau, and used the proper biological nomenclature for them as well.

[@SpliffingBrit]

I feel like for the millions of years they have had to evolve we would probably expect to see much larger changes

[@Jaden-vn8dj]

If you look up how the necrontre looked before bio transference than you would find they looked similar to the tau just with more cancer

[@ArchArturo]

Necron Overlord: *looks at Tau Planet, Laughs Condescendingly* Come, gaze upon this!. Necron Lord, & Overlord: *Laugh Condescendingly*

[@domezasrekh3775]

This^

[@Splatterpunk_OldNewYork]

Condescendingly, is very much in character.

[@pit_shost]

I want an edit where the c.a.d notice is replaced with a tau planet asap

[@Turkoktonos1]

Very Happy to see you back again. Hope you're well. Stay well, great loremaster. On the topic, well, you know, evolution is very powerful and within 60. Mio. years or so there can be lot of changes, maybe intelligent Velociraptor. But as you said it's highly unlikely.

[@40KTheories]

I do point that out with on screen text in the video itself at around 9:40, in fairness :3

[@Turkoktonos1]

@@40KTheories Sorry, mate, was too slow.

[@40KTheories]

No problem :3

[@mikewaterfield3599]

You know…. Short lives, rapid tec development, little soul, but this is some Q level conspiracy theory.

[@Jason-jb3xt]

The chaos are interdimensional space aliens that want to eat our souls - Alex Jones

[@mikewaterfield3599]

@@Jason-jb3xt its terrifying when that guy is right about something.

[@Matt-md5yt]

Sweet glad you revisited this theory my friend.

[@torch1028]

It would make more sense if surviving necrontyr turned into humanity Old ones curing some and leaving them on earth

[@MrLaz0rz]

That's what I was thinking, they'd benefit from having tech advanced necrons on their side.

[@torch1028]

@@MrLaz0rz also the necron physiology is closer to humans than anything else Assuming the shells are stylized as humans do And the cure to their sickness would be from adding some eldari DNA which is how we got psykers and how there are rumors of crossbreeding potential with eldari as well as skin tone and a few other metrics Remember that humanity is actually a species that rapidly developed and in about 20-30k years from first opportunity to leave caves with pointy sticks to literally conquering the galaxy in the golden age

[@00yiggdrasill00]

It's plausible, but given a neglectful cruelty of the old ones I can't see them doing that to a race they are at war with

[@torch1028]

@@00yiggdrasill00 theres a shard of ctan in the sol system

[@00yiggdrasill00]

@@torch1028 your point? It's not humans being the descendents of the necron I find unlikely in your theory, it's the part about the old ones providing a cure and dropping them on earth. The old ones were a cold hearted lot whos refusing to help them in the first place lead to the war. I can't see them helping a group of necrontyr when they are losing a war to them

[@Deridus]

I can hear the Silent King screaming through time and space... *HEEEERRRRRESSSSYYYYY!!!*

[@CyrodiilCome]

Maybe when the old ones were winning the war and about to wipe out the necrontyr they seeded a new world with new Necrontry because they didn't believe in wiping out species. And then the C'tan were risen and the old ones lost

[@volks2605]

I love this theory, warhammer 40k is such a rich universe.

[@sac2chips]

Surely, the necron would have noticed upon first meeting the t'au how similar they looked to their old selves.

[@essexclass8168]

We know the Eldar messed with the Tau, possibly with the Qorl. So that could make the difference.

[@bengale9977]

10:20 well there is also an inquisition that exterminate any humans that start to become too divergent from the rest of humanity. So who knows how diverse humanity could have become without that.

[@anthonylamonica8301]

Now _there's_ an idea for a video. Speculation about how the Inquisition and the Magos Biologis decide where the cut-off point is for genetic divergence from baseline Humanity. More simply, how do they decide if a group of Abhumans are _actually_ Abhuman, or just not Human enough? I'm sure there are some cut-and-paste criteria they use, but what would those be?

[@00784865]

Its stated in the xenology books that Tau evolved from cattle and that the eldar had a hand in their evolution.

[@40KTheories]

Not really, no. I know you're referring to the theft of the Q'orl queen and the implication they were used to engineer the Ethereal caste, but the Aeldari simply couldn't have had a hand in the evolution of the Ethereals via the theft a Q'orl queen simply because the time frame doesn't add up (the theft of the Q'orl queen taking place roughly a thousand years _after_ the Ethereals had revealed themselves to the other T'au tribes) Check out the video in the pinned comment for more on that ;) Also the 'evolved from cattle' thing is somewhat misleading, since the autopsy notes state "Tertiary joint analogous to Terran artiodactyls *suggests* evolution from cloven hoofed ruminant." Nothing is confirmed from a 'narrator's perspective', only implications from an in-universe character's opinion. :3

[@Tenai]

If I know eldars right they probably fucked a space goat long enough for a sentient race to appear. Tau is the result of an eldari fuck fest just short of a cataclysmic climax

[@canis2020]

I've been wondering this for years. Like they are a clone reset for the Necrons to LIVE once more.

[@jordanreeseyre]

Two speculative arguments for the theory is the Necrons we're built to intimidate the Old Ones' servant races & that the Dawnblade is a Necron artefact that's compatible with Tau physiology

[@gargoyles9999]

Except the Servant races were built to fight the Necron not the other way around. If the Old ones could beat the Necron they would’ve had no need to bring those races into existence. Besides is there really anything that could intimidate the Krork?

[@jordanreeseyre]

@@gargoyles9999 If I'm remembering correctly the Orks were one of the few extant races at the time that the Nightbringer failed to plant the existential fear of death into.

[@ChickenSims]

This has already been debunked in the FFG Deathwatch books, from the POV of a Necron. Overlord-Regent Ahhotekh seems to see "traces of the work not of the Old Ones, but others of their progeny, determining that a more detailed examination would be necessary to ascertain their true heritage". Cryptek Ozkan the Codifier has also already attempted reverse biotransference on tau bodies, among others.

[@40KTheories]

I had not seen that. Interesting. Thank you for bringing that up. But given the amount of lore inconsistencies that are found within the FFG Deathwatch books (like the Carcharadons being stated to be a 21st founding, 3rd generation Ultramarine successor who don't know who their Primarch is for example, or Rogal Dorn being shown to be dead, alive, missing and present in the modern day Imperium, who's body was never found except it was found by the Imperial Fists chief librarian all at the same time.) it is perhaps worth taking with a pinch of salt.

[@ChickenSims]

@@40KTheories some of it is certainly written from the POV of unreliable narrators, or inconclusively with the specific goal of leaving room for player interpretation. That said, another possible answer that I think is often overlooked is Zachary's Theorem of Adaptive Divergence from the original tau codex. If the castes or even subsets of the castes are subject to short, controlled bursts of directed evolution, it could explain sweeping changes in physiology between your example of Necrontyr and modern tau, or even explain inconsistencies in depictions of tau themselves (such as Xenology's "feet" or the different hoof styles in artwork). You might reasonably see a lot of variety between tau of different Septs or time periods.

[@40KTheories]

An interesting possibility, I will admit :) Personally my head-canon in regards to the Xenology T'au having toes is that it was an additional sign of sexual dimorphism, since that Ethereal was female (and most full body T'au art outside of battlesuits is of males)

[@PeteofHartainia]

​@@40KTheories I would think the different foot shapes would be more of a response to environment and not sexual dimorphism. Take the Air Caste for example one supposedly had actual wings. The sexual dimorphism of the nose makes sense as if the Tau are truly pheromone driven, a female might have a bigger/more sensitive nose to pick up male pheromones.

[@fourfingered4479]

@@40KTheories there was a test model for the new shadowsun that floated around the internet briefly. He had hooves. And the Exodite features a female tau with hooves. I think it was a lack of research on the author of xenology.

[@octavius32a64]

I love some of the rabbit holes you guys go down :) nice work

[@Morec0]

Back during Psychic Awakening, I was sure The Greater Good book would reveal this as away to give both factions larger coalition force to draw from (along the lines of Aeldari or Imperium).

[@40KTheories]

I was hoping the 'Pariah' book would bring back Necron Pariahs :(

[@Morec0]

@@40KTheories I also hoped this. At least we had the first seven minutes of 9th! Now back to our regularly scheduled Chaos.

[@andrewmcnally5013]

@@40KTheories I was hoping for something more than rules for the new Szeras which were superseded rather quickly.

[@r.cdahuman7682]

Hell yeah. Just before I gotta go bed. Bed time theory bb! Thank you lore master, your timing is always perfect.

[@ghDKAEghZAUhu]

Amazing video Bud! But as a Necron player this is some fucking HERESY

[@AshtonCoolman]

Anything that isn't loyalist humanity is heresy so deal with it, xenos heretic.

[@santiagocavanagh]

Necrons must see the Tau much like the Eldar see humanity.

[@akumaking1]

@@santiagocavanagh what about the Jokearo?

[@MedievalFolkDance]

Mankind - "I need this like I need another hole in the head" Tau - "You make it sound like a bad thing"

[@____________838]

Between the Necrontyr’s radiation based medical issues, the possibility of inbreeding due to it being a colony planet, and the tens of millions of years that have passed… It’s very possible…

[@40KTheories]

Bear in mind that the radiation thing seems to be a thing unique to 3rd edition lore for following the 5th edition retcon (or retcron) they would be given an entire galactic empire which would mean that the majority of the race would *not* be exposed to such radiation (while the initial colonists may have still suffered from radiation sickness, any children or at least grandchildren born upon distant colony worlds would not have any sort of exposure to the home systems radiation, and thus would not suffer from the same ailments that their ancestors suffered from)

[@Snakedude4life]

Honestly, it could be a really interesting turn of events. It’s only too bad GW will probably never touch upon this. 🎩 🐍 no step on Snek! 🇺🇸🇭🇰

[@TheLastRaven]

I have been wondering this for very long they look so similar and the tech and lifespan makes sense. I am looking forward to see what your opinion on the subject would be. ALSO Gorgutz is the biggest so he is the boss!!

[@gargoyles9999]

By that logic humans are descended from the Eldar

[@TheLastRaven]

@@gargoyles9999 well you make a good point but you have to admit it's fun to theorize even if something seems unlikely.

[@Seruvius]

I hadn't actually heard of this theory before, enjoyed your thoughts on it. Speaking as a geneticist, some good points re vestigial traits and some less so ones regarding comparison between the necron/tau vs human/abhuman . One needs to consider the sheer length of time between the potential old necrontyr and the tau vs abhumans . Abhumans have developed over ~20-30'000 years, while the tau would have had 65 million years. On our planet in that time, small shrew/possum like creatures diversified into all extant mammals. If one species can diverge into things as diverse as whales, kangaroo, humans and jaguar, then one humanoid can turn into another humanoid.

[@TK199999]

Exactly after 60+ million years how many animals or even plants still look same on Earth? Oh and in fluff for about Necron of Jericho Reach. The leader of the local dynasty is convinced of two things. One, the Tau are related to Necrontyr in someway, he just doesn't know how. So is having his Crypt tech's do massive experiments on Tau captives. So far his Crypt tech's have evidence of a link but not one that is understood even by the Necron's. Two, that Humanity is final weapon race of the Old One's. Designed to be the bulwark against the Nercron's and Chaos. To borrow from Discworld, where the falling Eldar meets the rising Ork.

[@WolfeSaber]

The T'au Empire came about over 65 million years after the War in Heaven. That's plenty of time to evolve, much like on Earth. Plus, the T'au have been know to rapidly evolve, like with the Air Caste who once had wing like membranes when humanity discovered them, to their current form in the 41st millennium.

[@NearZone]

Sick stuff as usual, love the background track

[@necronHavoK]

One theory I had was that indeed the Tau are based on the necrontyr but aren't directly descendants, they are gene & socially modified to be better and distinct from their origins. Namely they seemed to have been made with the idea of overcoming the Necrontyr's weakness' by some unseen hand. Necrontyr weakness one: body adaptability, the tau started life being very adaptive to their world thus the diversity in body shape etc of the castes. Necrontyr weakness two: unity, the necrontyr always had issues with authority and only obeyed due to the threat of violence until the vastness of space let rebellion start. The Tau are completely consumed with unity & obediance as a core feature as soon as the Ethereals arrived to push it upon them. The farsight enclave shows the second the Ethereals are gone the Tau become rebellious. Necrontyr weakness three: death obsession, the tau have been ingrained to value life of both themselves and foes in an almost old one like fashion. Plus apart from appearance there are a big list of features both original races share, physical frailty, weak near non-existent psychic imprint, technologically minded expertise, an almost prideful sense of superiority over other races & willingness to incorporate (enslave) them & their rapid ascent to space faring life. It can be said the head/nasal design was distinctly made specifically for the Ethereals to control the race by pheromones as is postulated by imperials. Just a theory of course but to me dots line up, almost too easily to just be mere coincidence.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

I like to think a lone surviving Old One created the T'au to be resistant to Chaos hence their miniscule warp presence.

[@NetMoverSitan]

10:04 - The Drukhari on the other hand having gained superior physical capability compared to their craftworld cousins at the cost of their psychic powers atrophying.

[@40KTheories]

Which in evolutionary terms are relatively minor changes as opposed to them, say, changing their limbs from a plantigrade to unguligrade stance, and having their noses turn into a massive gaping cranial cavity. Drukhari are still visibly recognisable as being a strain of Aeldari, even if they may have potentially evolved into something more akin to a sub-species over time (kinda like an ab-aeldari, if that makes sense?)

[@christopherg2347]

The physiological difference could be intentional genetic engineering. And it is not like the Necrotyr had no reason to try genetic engineering - being a Necrontyr was so bad, Biotransference was preferable! The biggest issue would be the timespan. There is a 67 Million Year gap. Humanity evolved from Monkey to Early Spacefraing in about 8 Million Years. We are only 12 thousand years from startng farming. Either technological development was impossible (important civilisation building material like metal was missing) - if so how did they build a civilisation in the end - or they should have become spacefaring Millions of Years ago. The best explanation I can think off is Necrotyr Time dilation technology. For some reason or another, they put them planet into a time dilation field for ~66 Million years. Then it will match up again.

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

Could you make a Beastmen video since they might actually have the same origins from fantasy or still be considered ab-han created by human for some reason

[@40KTheories]

I do need to update my video on Gor Half-horn at some point, since some new information has been revealed since then.

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

@@40KTheories don’t forget about Tzaangores pesta gores slaangores an khorn-ghors and the Minotaur the Bull-gors Pesta-bulls Tzeench-bulls and slaan-bulls

[@TalZadios]

Being 100 million years old im sure there's room for a little evolutionary trait differences. Like different feet and one less finger. I wonder if its also the case that the Kataan star folk designed them somewhat more maybe in their image to a degree.

[@nowen4228]

I think that I’m waiting for the book where trazyn fights commander shadowsun and disarms her by telling her that he’s her father right now. For real tho, I like the idea of this, especially if the tau start fighting the necrons majorly

[@Blakewyattdunfee]

The star wars is strong in this one...

[@alastor-yw7og]

Also a fun-fact about the ancestors of whales is that a group of them split from the cetacean lineage and became the ancestors of hippo's which means whales, dolphins, porpoises, and hippo's are cousins along with the other even-toed ungulates that also descended from other split off whale ancestors like pigs, giraffes, antelopes, bovines, camels, etc

[@JordanAndTrazyn]

Every time someone mentions the War in Heaven and the Necrontyr, I expect a connection to the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event. Did the Necrontyr kill our dinosaurs?

[@Eucep]

I personally think it more likely that if the Old Ones indeed 'meddled' with humanities ancestors and they got asked by the necrontyr to save them, that they actually 'saved' the necrontyr by transplanting their genes to a more suitable planet to start again. In this case, Earth.

[@Neoentrophy]

Now this I didn't expect. Interesting

[@Ke3per88]

Indeed.

[@JwayT]

Another point I'd add from an out of universe perspective is that the very first Necron codex was released after the very first Tau codex, the races were also the two new ones in Dark Crusade.

[@Saguardia]

I hope this helps. About the lifespan of the necrontyr, Trazyn stated that humans lived far more than old necrontyrs (The Infinite and the Divine, p. 299), so the age of 30 to 40 years old seems quite accurate. Nice video, as necron of old I totally support this theory.

[@cp1cupcake]

Regarding the evolution theory, I just want to point out that 65 million years of evolution is enough to go from the earliest primates to humans (according to wikipedia, the oldest known primate fossil is only 57 M years old. The human subspecies in 40k are a drop in the bucket in comparison.

[@40KTheories]

9:40

[@pitiedvod]

It possible. We must remember that 65 million years ago we had mammal rodents that human evolved from. That far more changes that the little amount of change mentioned here.

[@40KTheories]

I do bring something similar up at around 9:40 with on screen text :P

[@nobodyimportant5417]

I mean, 65 million years ago, humans were small, shrew-like critters. I think losing a finger and growing some ugly nails are well within reasonable change over that same time.

[@Batman_the_bad_man]

I thought about this two days ago. Thank you very much, it was interesting!

[@ericmiller931]

Hello! I'm trying to learn 40k lore and feel completely lost. This video is interesting but I don't know the lore well enough to make a statement on the subject.

[@40KTheories]

We have a playlist of Lore for Newcomers if you're interested? :)

[@ericmiller931]

@@40KTheories of course interested. Thank you for making these videos. I will check the newcomers playlist.

[@r.cdahuman7682]

You will get it in time! 40k theories is one of the ones that helped me learn the lore, his series for newcomers is really good. Of course you can also do your own research, that's what I did once I got the basics. Don't expect to learn everything though. There is *alot*

[@ericmiller931]

@@r.cdahuman7682 this is the best channel I have found for 40k lore/theories

[@r.cdahuman7682]

@@ericmiller931 for lore specifically, oculus imperia and baldermort are both *great* too. They are also both channels rem does constant colabs with. But rem is the best for theories, bar none.

[@gargoyles9999]

Plot twist: the old ones are descended from the Necrontyre

[@xstera3728]

I am a firm believer in this theory.

[@aconcernedcommissar6261]

i always assumed the reason the tau were able to advance so fast technology wise was because they all worked together with no infighting and they found some old STC fragments the tau tech doesn't really look like necron tech

[@ghoul11719]

So my two cents is that if 65 million years have passed, I’d be surprised if their lifespans hadn’t increased dramatically away from the diseased star, and that I personally don’t see a reason why the foot structure like what the humans have would evolve to the more antelope like feet of the tau

[@asaenvolk]

I doubt that the T'au are descended from the Necrontyr, they could POSSIBLY be related to them distantly, but its more likely they were made by them for the process of bio-transference.

[@rexlumontad5644]

0:51 As a result the DAOT humanity and the peaceful and friendly xenos races have formed the Federation similarly in a Star Trek-esque manner. Of course that fell apart in the Age of Strife and the Federation has been dissolved with xenos turning against humans, humans turning against xenos, and humans turning against each other for survival after Slaanesh was being muderfucked into existence by the Aeldari Empire's extremely overexcessive activities that made the Eye of Terror in the Warp and woke up the other sleeping older Chaos Gods: Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle.

[@LuderSatan1]

This is actually a cool idea. It is one of those I would categorise in "I want to believe"

[@bobdrooples]

I don't get any notifications from tour channel. Only just seen this in recommended after scrolling for an age.

[@CynicalPete]

i don't know about them being descended from the Necrontyr, but i would place money on them being engineered by Szarek's crypteks and then sheltered from the rest of the galaxy until they were able to defend themselves

[@gothicshark]

ah, such a classic theory. Honestly, my personal theory is that A Necron Lord found the ancient Earth and guided the evolution of the Earth to recreate their species, and that Humans were designed by a Necron Lord to become the new Necrons. But at some point that lord was removed from the picture and Humanity was free to mature independently of Necron interference. There is some supporting evidence for this theory, but a youtube comment doesn't have the space for that.

[@Lenzabi]

I would need to voice chat with you Remleiz about my take on the Tau and how they came to be by the last surviving Old Ones.

[@suemeade2471]

No no,they were made by the silent king! That's why they have a weak warp presence.

[@elliotcutliff7779]

I can't remember where I first heard this theory, stated that the Tau were made by the necrons, to be used to return to a mortal form.

[@TalexTheLich]

I'd love for you to just make a video titled like "are orks related to humans?" And then just have the whole video be like "of course not, why would you even wonder that? What's wrong with you?"

[@40KTheories]

Maybe for April

[@xxxxxx210]

Well I guess they got their chemotherapy after all

[@mitulshah667]

I think you have really underestimated just how long a time they have had to evolve, in about 55 million years you have camels, pigs, hippos, whales, narwhal, giraffe, deer, cows and goats all split of from a common ancestor. All this in less time than between the Necron and the Tau.

[@40KTheories]

I do point this out with on screen text in the video itself at around 9:40 :P

[@mitulshah667]

@@40KTheories ok need to watch your videos without eating food, a few moments distraction and I lose several min listing out evolution branches... so much for saving time...

[@timothylyons5686]

Imhotep the Storm Lord laughs and said " you cannot be serious".

[@kamaeq]

Heh, much more likely GW altered the Necrons to avoid IP conflicts with the Terminator franchise. The Tau's distinctive non human appearance probably stems from complaints in scifi visual media that almost all aliens were humans with makeup.

[@dinowizard0213]

I think another biological difference would be that the big shoulder plates that Necrons have were part of their organic form because in the Infinite and the Divine it mentioned how Orikan and Trazyn would have been hunched over and round shouldered which made me think that they had pointy shoulders that rounded out as they got older.

[@RaimoKangasniemi]

65-million-years allows quite a lot of evolution - just look at how far humans have come from our arboreal proto-primate ancestors, so... the Tau could easily be descended from the Necrontyr, but because of the timescales, a descendant species of Necrontyr could look very, very different from the species that spawned it and any differences could be just put down to evolution during the gulf of time separating them. But if they are descended from the Necrontyr, then the Necrons' reactions to them should be telling.

[@40KTheories]

I do bring something similar up with on screen text in the video itself at around 9:40 :3

[@ryanswafford3681]

My theory. The Silent King has brooded about the fate of his people and blamed himself for millions of years. The Necrons waged war with races designed by the Old Ones. The Silent King seeks to undo the great sin of biotransference. He engineered the T'au, using Old One technology, and allowed them to evolve on their own for scores of millennia. When he believed the time was right, he *introduced* the ethereal caste to prepare the T'au for subjugation. They are meant to be the vessels of the Necrons. That is why T'au have only minimal souls.

[@canis2020]

There are no wolves on Fenris.

[@A.Lost.Astronaut]

*It being convergent evolution I think is a better way of explaining their similarities* It is a more natural explanation (and in my view that's the best type of explanation you can have in regards to any lore it's easier for readers to Imagine and grasp) it gets rid of the need to have a confusing and convoluted story and bypasses having to do the mental gymnastics that would be needed to create a story and concepts where the Necrons/ necrontyr (or at least some of them) become the tau. But playing devil's advocate, I guess you could postulate that the tau are the descendants of one of the colony fleets the Necrons were sending out to colonize distant stars, but, without faster than light travel, and so traveling to a distant star took an absurdly long time, on top of that seeing as it was a ship created for those long distances and the crew were organic so they would go into cryosleep and when awoken at their destinations would have no means of communicating with their race and so were isolated from the convergence or any news of it and evolved naturally becoming the tau. I would be interested in, is iif they were affected by the warp storm that shielded them from the Exterminatus the imperium of were going to initiate and so if they were affected by the storm I terms of evolution they could of been in there for eons *It being convergent evolution I think is a better way of explaining their similarities* It is a more natural explanation (and in my view that's the best type of explanation you can have in regards to any lore it's easier for readers to Imagine and grasp) it gets rid of the need to have a confusing and convoluted story and bypasses having to do the mental gymnastics that would be needed to create a story and concepts where the Necrons/ necrontyr (or at least some of them) become the tau. But playing devil's advocate, I guess you could postulate that the tau are the descendants of one of the colony fleets the Necrons were sending out to colonize distant stars, but, without faster than light travel, and so traveling to a distant star took an absurdly long time, on top of that seeing as it was a ship created for those long distances and the crew were organic so they would go into cryosleep and when awoken at their destinations would have no means of communicating with their race and so were isolated from the convergence or any news of it and evolved naturally becoming the tau. I would be interested in, is iif they were affected by the warp storm that shielded them from the Exterminatus the imperium of man and being affected by the warp time wouldn't run as it does in our universe nullifying the vast periods of time required for evolution hence why they had such a technological evolution

[@MrPiccolop]

Ah yes. I recall the old tale that the Silent King used to mutter to himself as I hid behind the grand clositers. He talked about how he saved his little cousin MiniM'Rec from the biitransference process and had him transported to an unknown verdant world with a small group of organics and as the silent king he could hide them effectively from the vast wars in heavens sheltering them from all the races including his own.

[@mrhappyfoot]

the short lifespan and the lack of warp presence certainly correlates. Given the millions of years since the necrons transitioned to metal bodies it's easily possible that the necrontyr could have simply adapted to life on their new homeworld

[@40KTheories]

The T'au have a presence within the warp, just a weak one since they aren't a psychic race.

[@mrhappyfoot]

@@40KTheories also down to evolution, humanity went from chimps to homo sapiens in about 3 million years, the timescale here is 50+ million, having a very weak presence in the warp could mean that the tau are not only descendents of the necrontyr, but are slowly developing their own warp presence where their ancestors had none.

[@alistairgeorgewardward3677]

They could be descendants of the Nercontyr. Due to the high levels of radiation that the Necrontyr was exposed to. High levels of genetic mutation was bound to occur. This could lead to any form of mutation becoming dominant and could explain the variation between the two species.

[@Robustacap]

Finally, one of my pet ideas! Two words, Chronomancy and C'Tan =C'Tau with ethereals literally having (Deceiver?) Shards in their foreheads! And Necron design is an artists thing, and the fact that they are an older race not just in 40k verse.. Also, why not imitate either aEldar enemies or C'tan Gods in their body mod xtreme design?

[@schoenperkins8210]

Im not saying they have a direct relationship, but the whole of the T’au seem to be following the Men of Iron’s tune note for note

[@kennethwood8806]

Only feasible explanation would be that the original necrontier mutated I such a way on tau that their bodys could now rapidly evolve (remember the air cast tau on the mountains could fly with wings that are now not present anymore just a thousand years later). So I think that yes necrontier landed on tau and tried to settle and either died out or abandoned the planet and left some things behind....then again I also believe that the greater good is actually a chaos demon that hasn't made him/herself known.

[@kronanthekonqueror2979]

Love your stuff man ❤️

[@valwenventureco9285]

this is one of my favorite theories.

[@lucasahumada6913]

This I almost like that one time when a certain someone thought that Gork and mork were actually nurgle

[@AccidentalNinja]

I like the application of real-world evolutionary principles to this fantasy setting.

[@omgtwlol]

If Necrons had hoofs, i would sign up to this idea. What if Humans are the last Necron?

[@tba113]

It's not a bad theory. It's not a huge leap to imagine a colony of Necrontyr that decided to do whatever it took to reengineer their genome in the hopes of weeding out all the cancers, diseases, and instability their star's radiation inflicted, and modern Tau are the result. Maybe they decided to isolate themselves to limit the spread of any missteps - or T-Virus-like horrors, for that matter; it is 40K, after all - and the War In Heaven got their file lost in the shuffle before the results were ready. Cut off from the rest of the empire and optimized for staying hidden from the Old Ones, Krork, and Eldar, the colony gradually stagnated and went feral, in which state it remained until relatively recently. That said, the time element bears scrutiny as to why the modern Tau happened when they did. I mean, the Necrontyr's biotransference was old news when dinosaurs still openly walked the Earth, but the Tau were still hunter-gatherers until after M35. So far as we know, humanity as a species is about a million years old in its current form, with human-like ancestors going back another two mil' years beyond that. If the Tau were descendants of a lost Necrontyr colony gone feral, they would have had time to build, lose, and rebuild their civilization dozens of times over. In that case, you'd think there would be some kind of physical evidence of that. And who knows: maybe there is. Maybe there are loads of ruins and archaeological digs on T'au that show cycles of long-dead civilizations rising and falling over the course of tens of millions of years. After all, if anyone knew how to build things that _last,_ it's the Necrons, so a War-in-Heaven-era colony would certainly have left some trace behind, even by M41. ...But I haven't heard of anything like that. All we have of the pre-history of the Tau is how the emergence of the Ethereal Caste got the medieval-era Fire and Earth Castes to stop butchering each other. There's no mention of ancient legendary weapons or abilities hinting at precursor civilizations, just stuff the Tau came up with on their own.

[@lordInquisitor]

A point against the theory that it was the discovery of necron tech that propelled the tau is just how seemingly different their tech is , all dow perhaps theoretical massive shift in culture might be accountable for that in some degree

[@CleoPinto4317]

I think it's possible that the tau are evolved from necrontyr. After all. In 65 million years mammals evolved from small scavengers resembling rodents to humans

[@gargoyles9999]

Yeah but we didn’t evolve from Eldar into humans. Unless you’re saying they engineered some rats put them on a planet and hoped that the War in Heaven would pass them by and that they would evolve unsupervised for millions of years into exactly what the Necron needed them to be. Remember they may have killed the Old ones and the C’tan but they had to remove themselves from galactic activity to avoid coming into contact with the Krork and Eldar. Remember that the Eldar had an empire rivaling DAOT humanity up to only 10,000 years ago.

[@CleoPinto4317]

@@gargoyles9999 i was not suggesting that

[@user-lh7ew7sk2k]

Not that I have any particular investment in this theory but: If we consider adaptive radiation then it would serve to reason that Elves who have extraordinarily long life cycles and seemingly have both Cultural and Biological imposed pressures to have children very infrequently then we would see less variance over time in regards to their body plan. Especially when we consider that they were tailor made to be perfect by a superior species. A species such as the Tao who have very short reproductive cycles would see the effects of adaptive radiation much more quickly and more strikingly, with environmental pressures causing each successive generation to diverge further genetically in response to survival needs in their environment.

[@oldeskul]

A problem with this theory is: Aren't the T'au supposed to a a cold-blooded or maybe lukewarm-blooded species while the Necrontyr were supposed to be a warm-blooded species, implying that they come from completely different evolutionary backgrounds? I think the T'au were genetically engineered by the Aeldari before their fall.

[@Gyrannon]

Honestly they look more alike to the Eldar, even their symbolism & cultural buildings appear pretty similar. I personally doubt that they are related in any way to either of them, cause both the Necrontyr & the Eldar species are millions of years old, and for the Tau to not have technology that doesn't even remotely feels comparable to Necrontyr or Eldar, it just seems extremely unlikely. Plus, by the sound of things in the Tau's history, there doesn't seem to be infighting wars like what Humanity experienced (The Emperor does recount events of roman era an such when trying to turn the last priest on Terra to the Imperial Truth), and when you think about how long it took for humanity to become seriously unified that led to the golden age of technology, there is honestly quite a helluva lot of explaining that would be needed for the Tau's development to be so incredibly slow (If they are related to the Necrontyr or the Eldar), cause heck, by the time the Imperium was born, the Tau STILL had not developed a comparable warp drive. Either they were a naturally evolved species or one of the very last Old Ones made them, like a last act of creativity.

[@jordanhallmark1784]

Holy shit, the Tau symbol is literally the same as the Reclaimer symbol from Halo (Or Marathon, for those who are deeep in the bungie lore)

[@ShaunWason]

I think it's the opposite. The Necrontyr is descended from the T'au. The T'au are advancing at an incredible rate, I say eventually they'll create time travel, and travel to the distant past to escape a Tyranid or Chaos apocalypse.

[@joevines3428]

I really like the lore for necrons and C'tan but I think they would be cooler if they looked less human.

[@thewindowsmaaane]

me too. three legged with long snake spine like necks with heads protruding from their chest then the big shoulders on top. Weird and robotic but not metal tyranids. The truth is they started as Chaos Android sculpts, Dark Mechanicum and then they went bugger it make them a full faction.

[@jadedkratos5528]

Maybe the remaining Necrontyr developed the proclivity for fornicating with fish and the fish had a Necrontyr fish baby hybrid, the Necrontyr fish baby then grew up to fornicate with the local horse to have a Necrontyr fish horse which grew up to fornicate with a bipedal alien creature. The Necrontyr fish horse bipedal alien hybrids fornicated among each other for millions of years and we have a 4 digited hoof footed alien with a fish face and blue skin. Congratulations; Tau are descendants of a Necrontyr getting freaky with a fish.

[@skrewdriven6891]

maybe that trayjn the collector dood had some preserved necrontyr in those tasseract thingies of his and decided to give his ppl another shot, and let em loose with a nudge and a plan.