Could Thomas Have Been A MORE Useful Engine?

[@Lightbolt95]

I like to think of Thomas as an unwanted prototype explaining why they almost immediately built an E2 that took his number and never wanted him back I’d like to think that his cab was moved forward compared to the standard E2s making a much longer and larger coal bunker removing the limited capacity problem as well as making his boiler appear shorter making him look closer to both the illustrations and the TV show.

[@TheDefiantPirate]

Head cannon accepted

[@ToonReel001]

It would make sense, a lot of the Sodor engines seem to start off with defects that the Fat Controller is willing to iron out. Henry was a poorly constructed mess, James had wooden brakes, etc.

[@Lightbolt95]

@@ToonReel001 Almost all the engines weren’t wanted by the original railways as I said Thomas was an unwanted prototype Edward was an old engine by time he was purchased we all know the sad story of Henry Gordon was a prototype on the Lner and it’s been commonly assumed that he wasn’t wanted James was originally and 0-6-0 and many people within the community think he went through a major rebuild Percy was a one off and Toby was Railway shut down and no one wanted him

[@ricky1912]

@@ToonReel001 great point I must say. First engine an E2 second was old third with smaller firebox. Maybe he was much careful while purchasing Gordon, that's why he went for LNER

[@VPT2]

I love this.

[@CaramelTankEngine]

Considering the first ever line in Thomas’ first appearance, “Thomas is a tank engine” he could be literally any type of tank engine if you hear that line out of context, one could think he was never an E2, I personally see him as an experimental “shortened” E2X in my own headcanon. (Thomas is technically an E2X, as normal E2s don’t have extended side tanks, as E2X’s were the ones extended side tanks)

[@TheTTTEFan]

Or Thomas Could Be Like Edward, Edward Is A Heavily Rebuilt Furness Railway K2 Class With An Extended Smokebox. Thomas Could Be A Heavily Rebuilt E2X Class.

[@englishtwister]

I like that..a compromise.. an E2X.

[@spiffwhiff6293]

I have an alternate "good ending" for the E2 class and it also includes the same classification of E2X. In 1938 1 class member was rebuilt with a longer bunker and a flat running board therefore giving it a smoother ride as well as better fuel and water capacity too, and to the railway's surprise the rebuild improved the engine. eventually by 1948 all E2's were rebuilt this way and became really useful (like Thomas) and at least one survived into preservation

[@TheTTTEFan]

Sound Cool. Sadly, Never Happened. Maybe One Day Someone Will Buy An E2 From Barry Scrapyard And Restore.

[@coalcountry6795]

@@TheTTTEFan if you are talking real world, that is unfortunately impossible. Idk if any ever made it to Barry. And if they did, they were promptly cut up. That was the fate of all the E2's unfortunately.

[@SodorTrain1225]

Idea: A J50 with extended side tanks, for more water capacity, and Jinty's coal bunker. That way, Awdry would be happy, and fans would be happy.

[@MiddletownBranchProd.]

J50s could only have their tanks squared off, just without the slope. they couldnt be extended any farther than they were. that with a jinty’s bunker and shorter wheelbase could provide for a better shunter back then

[@SodorTrain1225]

@@MiddletownBranchProd. I mean to say that the j50 could use the E2s' tanks.

[@MiddletownBranchProd.]

@@SodorTrain1225 ohhhh ok

[@MiddletownBranchProd.]

@@SodorTrain1225 yeah a combination could be somewhat of an idea

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

A J50 with E2 shaped tanks resembles Thomas a lot. Maybe that is what Awdry was going for in his later illustrations. J50s even have splashers, a flat running board and circular cab windows and similar looking coal bunkers, everything that points to Thomas.

[@jamiee7367]

One alternative to the E2 I've seen floated around occasionally that I like is the idea of Thomas as a Furness Railway G5. The G5 looks strikingly like the E2, but with splashers & a flat running plate, making it very reminiscent of how Thomas looks (especially in the books).

[@lukechristmas3951]

Interesting. The possibility that Edward and Thomas were together on the same railway that was regionally next to Sodor is a great What-If!

[@robobird3383]

I think Thomas is fine as an E2. Yeah, it had faults, but I always assumed they were cured after several rebuilds, similar to Edward. I think that in the 1940's, Thomas was rebuilt with a jinty style bunker to improve fuel capacity for his branch line. But I don't really have a problem with his length. He is still small compared to James Henry and Gordon, and Awdry did state that the illustrations were inaccurate in TIOS:IPHaR, so it does make sense.

[@bow-tiedengineer4453]

I agree. It also makes sense that he would be a class that wasn't amazing, as he was canonically left on Sodor because he was written off as lost in WWI, and they didn't even think it was worth the paperwork to get him back. That would make less sense if he was a class that was more popular, but it makes sense to me that he was left on Sodor because he wasn't worth it to his original owners. He would have then been modified over the years by the fat controller, receiving the extended side tanks and coal bunker later in life. He's a really useful engine, not the single most useful engine ever.

[@eevee_pog7026]

Fun fact, the E2s were appearantly as tall as the A1/A3, or at least they are in their hornby models.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

E2's were as tall as A1 Pacifics. I'm still not really satisfied with him being an E2. He should have just been a Jinty. He even has splashers like a Jinty, something the J50 and E2 didn't have.

[@LMSIsCool]

79th like here e

[@widodoakrom3938]

Thomas base on lner J50/4

[@funsyminn]

In my head canon, Thomas is still a E2 but a instead an attempt to fix the E2 with a smaller size and larger water tanks and stuff. Some people kinda think the fact the first five engines are experimental engines is weird, I personally don’t think dumb experimental engines would be any more expensive than the real deal. That would explain why Sir Topham Hat would have bought so much because they would have been cheaper.

[@TheTrueAdept]

In other videos of the E2s, the biggest problem with the E2s weren't the fuel capacity and water supply, _but their boilers_ just being fuel and water hogs and infamously being horrid steamers. The rough riding was due to someone screwing up on the cylinder-to-wheel ratio, so just increasing the cylinder size a bit would have solved that. Then there is the wheel base, which is easily fixed with a more flexible middle driver...

[@ChrisLShack1998]

In my opinion, Thomas is a freelance tank engine design. He has the short body and wheel basis of a Terrier, and the side tanks of an E2. He might've been commissioned by the Fat Director.

[@danielferrovias]

Sorry for the late reply, but that falls flat considering he arrived on the island during the great war efforts... So... He wasn't technically a "new" engine... He just ran away from his former railway. So, that theory of him being commissioned falls completely flat...

[@cash3328]

I just came home from my first day of highschool and have been bored all day. Thank you for uploading.

[@ethanol1586]

Ah have fun in hs, I just started my first day of uni and was bored too

[@parasitehoodie2948]

Same, except mine was monday

[@eevee_pog7026]

Also came home from school! I love his posts!

[@parasitehoodie2948]

@@googleuser3163 for real, lol

[@parasitehoodie2948]

@@googleuser3163 yeah man that totally sucks, sorry about that man

[@Steamenginesunited3456]

I love the intro with Thomas and Earth so much.

[@carrotheadohmygod]

Here goes headcanon No. 536 of the comments. My idea of Thomas is that he’s not an E2, but actually a hodgepodge of many different parts and components of many railways. He was likely sourced from spares of mainly either the LB&SCR or GNR, and a couple other companies . These were then purchased as surplus by an early developing North Western Railway, and assembled into a small shunting tank engine used for the large yards and stations at both ends of the island. The challenge was to build No. 1 out of as little custom parts as possible, with key components such as the boiler and frames being the only exceptions as to cut down costs. After being granted a branch line, however, many faults in the design started to show, and an overhaul was planned. After his breakfast incident, this started father ahead of time than planned, but now at this point Thomas would resemble his Peter & Gunvor Edwards design. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk, I still haven’t really gone depth into developing this headcanon. Have A day.

[@Admb_]

2:40 I remember when I was little that was what the Thomas looked like at day out with Thomas. One time it had broken down so it wasn't running so I made a handmade get well card for the Thomas and I took it too the station the next day then a driver or engineer popped in and agreed to take me too see Thomas he even let me in his cab I was really young at the time and I loved seeing Thomas I even have the photos my parents took of me in the cab. And the driver put the card right above the boiler.

[@dbzsonicnerd5852]

This is one of the most wholesome things I have seen in my life thank you for sharing it with us

[@Admb_]

@@dbzsonicnerd5852 no problem

[@danthebluetank6636]

I mean, it would’ve been cool if Thomas was a j50 since he would be Gordon’s younger cousin (being built after Gordon instead of being built in 1915) My head canon for the E2 Thomas (the one we are stuck with) is that, unlike his brothers Thomas worked much better for some reason

[@jasonl.1959]

Maybe he worked better because he was smaller than them

[@oliverthebrblack5330]

atleast thomas isnt as bad as he is but hes useless

[@howzzat56]

In my head cannon, Thomas was completely overhauled, gained a superheat boiler, a superheat smokebox, and looked more like an actual E2 some point after the 100th birthday of wilbert awdry.

[@bussesandtrains1218]

@@googleuser3163 I never though there yould be a time were I was left speachless. AND THAT TIME HASN'T COME YET! What in Swindon's name is going through your screwed up mind?

[@bussesandtrains1218]

Wot?

[@SteamTeamRedubUK]

I don’t know why but that simple pencil design looks like something straight out of those old anti-smoking commercials of the early 2000s.

[@CoasterKeegan]

In my eyes Thomas is'nt an E2, but likely a LBSC A1x or any industrial side tank engine, but i like him more as a A1x because of the references of him being small, unlike the E2's which were massive.

[@uhhhye9297]

@@usaproductions3178 uhhhhhh u really didnt have to call them stupid but ok :/

[@brandonbrowntheego8413]

I think someone made a hate comment then quickly deleted it

[@ajaxengineco]

I love the A1x, but I consider the LNER J65 to be more Thomas-y in appearance. Might be worth looking at .

[@uhhhye9297]

@@usaproductions3178 literally calm down lol its just an opinion

[@jamiee7367]

I don't think Thomas really works as an A1x. In terms of size, then sure, it does fit with Thomas being small. Thing is though, since all the A1x's were simply rebuilds of the older A1's, (rather than their own distinct class) it means Thomas would likewise have originally been built as an A1. The A1's were all built between 1872 & 1880. That would make Thomas as much as _2 decades_ older than Edward (built in 1896). Sure, I can rationalize Thomas being a bit older than Gordon. But not Edward. That's my main issue with Thomas as an A1x. As an extra side note, I also think the A1x's funnel is too tall for Thomas. Doesn't really fit with Thomas having a "short stumpy funnel".

[@eevee_pog7026]

I see thomas as the same engine that Awdry saw him. The LNER J50, it is actually a very pretty engine in my opinion.

[@coalcountry6795]

We will def have to disagree on that one. Perhaps behind those tanks is a beautiful engine, but the odd water tanks ruin it for me. Although they are still interesting engines.

[@eevee_pog7026]

@@coalcountry6795 That's exactly what I like about them XD though everyone has their opinions!

[@EBRailway]

I love Thomas as a j50 but the e2 design will always be the iconic design

[@Paraffinmeister]

Personally I always thought he resembled the E1X more than an E2. It also fits better with the rev Awdry's penchant for one off experimental and prototypes as his characters

[@BriceInkling138]

I have a friend who calls Thomas an "experimental tank engine" as Thomas is more capable of pulling freight cars and passenger cars while being capable of shunting both types of trains too, unlike the other E2 tank engines, which are the engines who can only shunt and pull wagon cars but are not capable of pulling passenger trains. That would explain why The Fat Controller let him shunt and pull passenger coaches as a station pilot at Knapford before he gave Thomas his own branch line.

[@agentnintendonate1thee2tan89]

Seems legit.

[@Dat-Mudkip]

Look at it like this: Thomas is *not* a pure-bred engine. And really, a large chunk of the engines on Sodor are far from "standard". Examples: -Edward's class is canonically a K2 "Large Seagull" class that had a reputation for being a "shy steamer". He also bears a striking resemblance to a LNER Class D40, and Awdry used a LMS Class 2P for a model. It should be noted that K2's were briefly equipped with superheaters in an attempt to cure the shy steaming problem, but it didn't work out and they were removed not long afterwards. Edward's cab and high-running boiler look quite similar to that of a NER Class R1, which would suggest he was given a different type of boiler to "cure" his steaming issues. -Henry was ordered under the impression of being an Atlantic-type engine. In reality, the Fat Controller got an engine that was a bootleg A1. Worse still, the designs were defective, meaning Henry struggled to steam. He eventually got rebuilt into a Black Five, becoming really the only engine on the railway based directly off an actual locomotive class (save for Toby). -Gordon was a prototype A1. Eventually, issues with his running gear forced him to be rebuilt; while the boiler remained the same, that was really the only thing that stayed the same; he lost a piston, got new valve gear, received a redesigned running board, among other adjustments. (And let's not ignore the rectangular buffers) -James, as "TheUnluckyTug" discussed, has a noticeable "fat" boiler compared to the standard Class 28...and that's not including the obvious fact he's a 2-6-0 instead of a 0-6-0. -Percy is the definition of a mutt. While likely built for the GWR at some point, by the time he reached the Fat Controller's railway he had been extensively modified. -Toby, much like Henry, is one of the few engines that is actually directly based off a particular class of engine. -Duck, despite appearing to be a 57xx class, has been modified to be able to function with autocoaches...something none of the real life 57xx were ever equipped to do. -Donald and Douglas, despite being CR 812 class engines, are _technically_ numbered so that they would really end up being a 652 sub-class.

[@OnlyTheRightTrack]

great video trainboy, really well done!!

[@ItsTrainBoy]

Thank you my dude!! :)

[@OnlyTheRightTrack]

@SebastianTheBlackE2 I was on it

[@jezdrawz1227]

I like to think Thomas is a different type of E2 class that had a larger coal bunker and extended tanks while still having a decent and small and spaced wheel base for rail bends and has an experimental type of boiling system and piston orientation that contributes to his performance and how fast he can run than an average and slow E2. BUT I also like the idea of Thomas being a Jinty as they have fairly similar appearances to an E2. I also like the idea of Thomas being a J50. Awdry would be so proud. I'd also like to mention the Furness G5 which also looks similar to an E2. Y'know I really love how the community comes together to discuss this and share our opinions about it. 😊😊

[@Literallykimiko]

Honestly, I kinda like Thomas as a short E2. Maybe because that’s just how I’ve always seen him as. I can see a Jinty, but I just can’t see Thomas as a J50.

[@Mr_Gamer-Random]

Same

[@doctorlivesy7593]

J-50 is way better.

[@jarsofstuff2765]

TBH same. I’d like to see a universe where Thomas is a J50 so I could at least attempt to get used to it

[@jarsofstuff2765]

Now that I think about fit what if there was a universe in which alternate decisions were made to the railway series. What if Thomas was a J50 what if Awdry actually went through with booting off henry. What if Duke the lost engine was the finale? I’m more curious about what life would be like in the railway series itself not in real life reading about it.

[@astromotive6047]

In my head cannon, Thomas is a Fowler Jinty that was gifted to the North Western Railway as a good will gesture following the 1925 deal that allowed the LMS to run their trains to Norramby on Sodor and the NWR to run their services to Barrow-In-Furness (At that time at least 49 Fowler 3Fs would've been built). He would then be stationed at Tidmouth as its Pilot for only a year before being offered the chance to work on the branchline to Ffarquhar as a reward for his rescue of James. Following some trial runs on the branch, it was determined that Thomas would need to be modified to carry additional fuel so as to prevent constant refueling stops throughout the day. This wasn't an issue when Thomas was the station pilot at Tidmouth since there were a few points during the day where he could rest and top off on both coal and water between new arrivals and departures. (Remember, the coaling and water towers were both located at Tidmouth) However when running longer distances between stops on a branch line, Thomas would begin to feel increasingly exhausted throughout the day running low on both. He was therefore sent to the Works and retrofitted with extended side tanks similar to those on the later E2s as well as a larger coal bunker. As for Thomas' size, I actually believe that Thomas would be a larger tank engine than what most would think. In the book "Thomas and the Twins" The Els Bridge needed to receive a renovation causing the Fat Controller to impose a weight restriction for any engines that cross it. It is then determined that Thomas actually exceeded the weight restriction as is thus sent to work with Edward on his branch until the renovation is completed. Since Percy, Toby, and Daisy are all with Thomas when this news is brought to his attention it implies that Thomas might actually be quite a large and heavy tank engine. You can really see it in the later books written by Christopher Awdry where Thomas is illustrated as a very tall Tank engine with a low set running board. (Look at the Cover for "Really Useful Engines" to see what I mean).

[@coalcountry6795]

This. This is my fave here for the most part, and kind of how I see it. And that is one a lot tend to overlook. Thomas was sort of on the larger side of the spectrum when it came to tank engines.

[@safeguardprime5914]

In my own headcannon Thomas was actually special build made from engines that were partially scrapped due perhaps damages during operation, utilizing the best of all three locomotives Perhaps using modified plans from the Terrier class for the wheelbase to create Thomas literally from leftover locomotives using the engine number from the E2 that was being used as part of this build for Sir Topham for the engines initial registration

[@DiscD62]

*clap clap clap*

[@DiscD62]

dayum thomas is basically a zombie or Frankenstein from what you commented

[@safeguardprime5914]

@@DiscD62 Well in a sense when you read the series and how over time his design such as his footplates were changed after his accident before going to the mainland to an exhibition, it seems like it would be the case that basically Thomas is more or less a completely rebuilt engine especially since if he was an E2 he'd be older than Gordon which would be weird when he's portrayed as a young engine in the beginning which means he has to have been some sort of cobbled together engine who is basically new.

[@TrainFactGuy]

Good video, thanks for the shout-out

[@calebc.2290]

the best thomas is the one the unlucky tug has. great video probably the first person to touch this topic about the other classes thomas could have been based off of. also ‘train of thought’ isn’t the only one who done a video like that another channel with a series called ‘gauge the issue’, the puns are on point, did a longer video of the e2 a while back in early 2020.

[@corporalcreative9892]

In my opinion Thomas is a slight modified E2, with a shorter wheel base and a slightly larger coal bunker, which would make him more useful as an all around shunter compared to his larger useless siblings.

[@ra1lwayman]

The awdry model that was shown was made from a hornby E2, not a Jinty. Awdry did, however, have a Thomas Jinty, made from a triang Jinty, however it was just a spar model

[@dominicbarden4436]

Your pronunciation of Bromsgrove was correct, don't worry (from a lad from nearby Kidderminster). The Lickey Incline (the name of the hill) wasn't just home to Jinties, but it was also home to a 9F which was used for banking and would later become home to GWR pannier tank engines, specifically the 94xx, when the line was transferred from the Midland Region to the Western Region in 1958. It's most famous resident however was a locomotive built in 1919 by the Midland Railway: an 0-10-0 tender engine specifically designed for banking. It was nicknamed 'Big Bertha' or 'Big Emma', which served for many years until it was withdrawn and scrapped in 1956. And honestly, I think it's a shame that we don't have at least one J50 (aka GNR J23) in preservation. It's certainly a distinctive loco. Same with the E2, as a matter of fact. Then there would be an actual Thomas running around! Although the Nene Valley Railway has a loco which was named Thomas by the Reverend himself, so there's that.

[@PHsRailwayVideos]

The main thing you didn't mention was fuel consumption. The E2s had atrocious fuel consumption, however the Jintys had great fuel consumption. They're still used on various heritage railway in the UK to haul trains over 5-10 mile lines, so they would be good for branch lines. As for shunting, they were one of the best performing steam shunters ever used in the British Isles. Also, in Chris Awdry's book 'Sodor - Reading Between The Lines' he states that Thomas was an E2 because it was the only picture Awdry had to hand to show the illustrator what Thomas should look like.

[@TheGreyTurtleEntertainment]

I've always felt that even if Thomas started out as an E2, he is no longer one due to being likely modified by the NWR as I can imagine roughly around the time Thomas was given his branch line, that Sir Topham Hatt had Thomas refit to be more useful. Not to mention after Thomas comes to breakfast he was refit in a major way in the RWS. Maybe he started as an E2 and became some sort of E2 experimental i.e. and E2 2.0 etc. Idk, but I've always felt it does explain why Thomas looks less and less like an E2 with each change of RWS artist (Edited because auto somehow changed "artist" to "author" although it is true Thomas appearance changed slightly when Christopher took over)

[@coalcountry6795]

I actually kinda like this one here. Say the LBSC realized the E2's were slightly too large for shunting in certain places, and designed a slightly smaller one. And while the shorter engine length and shorter wheelbase was handy, it suffered the same drawbacks the other E2's did but without the few benefits of the larger, normal E2's, and chalked him up as a failure and sold him for cheap. Meanwhile, a smaller island like Sodor, with a fairly new railway that was without it's own locomotives, a locomotive like such wpuld be perfect. A deal is made, Thomas is bought cheap, his drawbacks aren't really a problem as Sodor is fairly small as opposed to the LBSC, and later, the Southern Railway. And what few issues would still be a problem would be ironed out through various rebuilds and improvements. That way, it is a bit of a better explanation of why he is smaller than other E2's. Nothing against the modifications during rebuild idea, but that would involve shortening the existing boiler, frames, and such, which would be much more complicated than just building him as such from scratch.

[@NWR81]

In my AU, in 1915, the Fat Director commissioned Brighton Works to construct a tank engine which looked like a mini E2 with certain features removed or added. The Fat Director perhaps had scene some of the faults with the E2 and worked out how to fix them.Thomas was the result but was a hybrid due to the fact he had J50 and Jinty features as well, not to mention some completely custom parts as well. He arrived on Sodor and was named Thomas and given the number 1. For his size, he was still quite strong so was able to shunt heavy trucks and coaches around the yard, making him a valuable asset to the railway.

[@TheHawaiianEngine]

Well done on your video! To be honest seeing his problems as an E2 is kinda disheartening, it's his iconic look I always sticked by and always will, but did notice some difference from thomas to the E2s, and I would deeply say personally that Thomas(As you said) is a modified E2. During his early days on sodor as "Staition Pilot" he was a normal E2 as the E2s were only good at shunting but when he earned his Branchline, sometime after he might have been rebuilt or maybe after "Thomas Comes To Breakfast" he had his rebuild then (If you don't count his Flat front running board In the Railway Series) but I really in any way he's still " A Really Useful Engine" ;D agian well done trainboy! hats of to you.

[@22Tesla]

Personally, I see Thomas as an E2 through and through, just repaired and adapted to Sodor for more versatile work given he and Edward helped build the mainline. The IOS book explains he was part of wartime surplus and was deemed "lost" which has given me some of my own head canon I guess you could say: Maybe on Sodor, a German Zeppelin found it's way to Sodor and in an attack Thomas was damaged. The war department listed the disaster had claimed Thomas as lost or destroyed so he was written of their books. But Thomas wasn't too badly damaged and was repaired in the works which ended up fixing all the faults the E2 had, making him a more versatile engine. When the war ended, the war department took back all the property they had leant to Sodor, except Thomas. They may have seen some scrap pieces left over from Thomas' repairs and thought that was all that remained of him. Thus never asked for him back. Not that Thomas minded as he and his crew had come to love Sodor and saw it as home. Maybe this fed into his cheeky attitude, feeling he was a superior tank engine on this railway. That he was the only one there and with the number one on his tanks which made him feel so special, he would tease any engine feeling they didn't work as hard as him. Throughout his time as station pilot in his introductory story, he's humbled and made to become more mature. He might be the only tank engine, and have the number one, but he's not getting special privileges just because of that. He has to learn and mature in order to advance. Given that is how he later gains his branchline, and what ends up leading Duck and Percy to be given leave of their previous station pilot duties when they also show their ability to handle tasks and can work without guidance I could really go on, but maybe this is something left for my series, or a whole exploratory essay

[@thefirkman7400]

Personally, the way I think of Thomas is that he is a E2, just a modified/shortened version of one. Now I know next to nothing about trains, so what I say may not make sense, but just bear with me. During 1913, after learning about how the standard E2 tank engines have trouble with it's long wheelbase and small coal bunker, L. B. Billinton decided to make a smaller version of the E2 with a much shortened wheelbase and a cab that was put just a tiny bit more towards the middle of the engine to allow for a bigger bunker. After many designs that went no where, L. B. Billinton finally settled on a new redesign for the E2, and eventually had one prototype built in 1914 for a trial run. Thomas is that prototype. Thomas performed very well compared to his larger brethren, being able to go around sharper corners easier and not having to stop as frequently due to the slightly bigger firebox. While Thomas was a decent performer, the shortened E2 was never put into production as WW1 had started, and and the men at Brighton were more focused on getting their second batch of E2 tank engines out of the factory. In order to get some extra funds during hard times, Thomas was put up for sale and was purchased by Sir Topham Hatt I, eventually arriving in Sodor around 1915, and the rest is history. I know that probably doesn't make sense and raises some questions, but that's just the way I personally see Thomas.

[@Pyrotrainthing]

I am glad this is being brought up, let alone getting more attention. The LNER J50’s were way more useful than the LBSCR’s E2’s!

[@LMS5935]

My personal headcanon for Thomas is that he along with two other engines arrived to Sodor as prototype versions of the class E2 however when the war was over and the need for shunters at Tidmouth was no longer needed and only one shunter was needed to shunt at vicarstown Thomas stayed on the Northwestern Railway you receive modifications to the cab bunker smokebox and eventually flat running boards the class was renamed E2x

[@xavierluthenumberblocksfan2424]

In my headcanon, Thomas is a one-off LMS Jinty experiment with extended side tanks. The Jinties even have the front splasher which the E2's don't. This could also explain why him and Edward work so well together, as the Furness railway was absorbed into the LMS upon grouping.

[@urthvox]

This teaches me more than school ever will, I love how you’re so dedicated to this wonderful fandom, :)

[@superplushtiman7ti075]

Heres 2 headcanons i have for his origin 1: Thomas was the second member of a class of 4 0-6-0T engines of unknown origin. Sold to the LB&SCR by a man who had said that that he got the design when he was an apprentice to the CME of the GCR(but it is never confirmed that it is from where the design came from) 2. He was the first member of a class of 20 0-6-0T engines built exclusively for the railways on Sodor, designed as a successor for Glynn's class

[@Manudoesstuff]

My personal Best Thomas is an Furness railway (forgot the name class.) Tank engine. it has a flat running board, yes, but other traits are there. The shorts stumpy; funnel, dome and boiler. Tho it doesn't have the extended water tanks, it still Looks like Thomas. (Also, not the same class as Albert, his class has a 2-4-2 wheel configuration, while the tank engine i'm refering to is an 0-6-0.)

[@Manudoesstuff]

Just remembered the class; The FR G5 class tank engine. He Looks so similar to Thomas

[@Shunteration]

My headcanon is that Thomas was actually an unlicensed 0-6-0 built relatively close to Sodor by a major locomotive works, and was sent there by a combination of an accident and some less-than-legal under-the-table arrangements. Basically, he was based on the Furness Railway's G5 locomotives (and was, in fact, built by Kitson and Co., who built two of those locomotives in 1915, with Thomas being the third), with some modifications. An E2 WAS ordered from the LB&SCR, but they largely agreed to the transfer too hastily, and realized that none of their (rather anemic) tank engines could make it there in time. However, they've already received the money for it, and the War Office had OK'd the whole transaction. Now, because of World War 1, nobody could really be bothered to hunt down the tank engine when it didn't arrive, and those who knew about the E2's performance didn't bother to. Some years after the war, just days before the Grouping Act, the heads of the LB&SCR realized that they had neglected to send an engine to Sodor. And the engines they were promised to send one of were in NO condition to make the trek up to Cumbria. So, they contacted Kitson and Co., and ordered them build an 0-6-0 like their E2s, and send that to Sodor - giving them the money they would've received for their E2, plus some extra as hush money about the whole ordeal. Kitson and Co. had a different problem: due to a mixup with the paperwork, they began building a third G5 in 1915, when only two were ordered. This was sorted out after the war, but they were still left with an unfinished engine, and it's parts. So, they took the half-finished engine, and modified it so it would pass as an E2 (basically, making him even more of a generic 0-6-0 with sidetanks), painted him with whatever spare paint they had - making sure to write LB&SCR on the sides in big, bold, capital letters -, and then gave the engine a random number, and sent him on his way. Basically, Sir Topham I, the Fat Director, was duped for the second time, but instead of receiving a lemon like he did with Henry, he actually got a better working engine out of the ordeal.

[@lukeslocomotives]

funnily enough i was watching train of thought's e2 video earlier on

[@mistermadmachine6311]

You have a tattoo of the original illustration as someone who got into trains through Thomas that’s hardcore 😱

[@nathangitz2674]

Whichever the basis, I've a feeling Topham bought Thomas as a prototype for one of the classes. Knowing LOTS about how to modify engines and how they work, he heavily optimized Thomas for Sodor's needs: tight bends, long distance travel, etc.

[@jamestopham3107]

You got Bromsgrove spot on! Great video and love your work!

[@tademun7805]

i personally like to think that some of the engines in thomas and friends were prototypes that were sold to the NWR because the railway didn't have much money at the time, so maybe the engines look like this to cut costs, gordon's straight footplate, henry being a stolen design i think renforces this even more, thomas' overall shorter look compared to the other E2s, etc. (also, great video TrainBoy, i like thomas' look as a E2, i grew with it and i prefer it this way, but i kinda like the j50 design too.)

[@IceBankMiceElf_873]

I like Thomas as an E2, the long-wheelbase has that you talked about reminded me of that trainz video called too long thomas. J50 thomas looks like thomas with a popped up collar.

[@oftenconfused6917]

Honestly, I'm curious about a shortened J50, similar to how UnluckyTug shortened the E2

[@transgaty2763]

I can't wait for the follow up video, Could James been more Redder?

[@rudyproductions4557]

I personally hate the idea that Thomas was literally shortened. It just doesn’t make sense, especially when we know that illustration errors were canon (in that they were canonically wrong). As far as I’m concerned RWS Thomas came to Sodor as an unaltered E2 and wasn’t rebuilt until 8 Famous Engines, when he had his running board dropped, which expanded his tanks and bunker. As for TVS Thomas, it’s an alternate universe, all E2s look like that.

[@willemdakevin1681]

Its funny imagining like 3 or 4 Jintys all pulling a goods train with 1 in front of the other

[@FeymenFanfics666]

I don't know what you say, but I prefer the little engine that they show to us on the first episode, because I couldn't imagine Thomas in any different way, because that's how Audrey wanted to show us the little engine that we all come to know and love

[@VestedUTuber]

So, interesting thing to note, the E2's fuel issues weren't due to the coal bunker being small. It was rated at 2.5 long tons, same as the other 0-6-0Ts and more than the Jinty. The problem was that the boiler burned through coal quicker due to poor steaming.

[@berkshireerielocomotive3322]

Thomas could have been easily portrayed as an LBSC E1, E3 or E4. But I think him being an E2 suits his personality better. He's cheaky, energetic, and good at shunting. The E2s were prone to bouncing and bucking at high speeds, and only good for shunting. Which, in all honesty, was what they were mainly designed to do, in concept. But Billington was obviously looking well beyond the pail.

[@EdwardsDayOut]

Personally, I think Thomas is a Jinty with extended side tanks. I mean, if James gets a front pony truck and Edward gets a new cab, I think extended tanks aren’t out of the question

[@eltrenlunatico1493]

that's literally what I think Thomas is... (but also with a modified running board)

[@EdwardsDayOut]

@@eltrenlunatico1493 yes, but in the railway series they did change it to be flat.

[@eltrenlunatico1493]

@@EdwardsDayOut yes, I know... That's other reason I think Thomas is a Jinty.

[@sirrliv]

I'd be up for some more RWS loco comparisons. Just as an example: Henry ended up being depicted as a fictional experimental 4-6-2 Pacific based roughly on Henry Ivatt's C1 Class 4-4-2 Atlantics. However, the Rev. Awdry bitterly complained that he always intended for Henry to be an Atlantic from the start. So how did this real Ivatt C1 stack up to what we know about Henry in the RWS? But we can go deeper! There was another class of Atlantic that was absorbed into the LNER, John Robinson's C4 Atlantics, originally Class 8B, built for the Great Central Railway. Or if we want to keep Henry as a 4-6-0 as he is often depicted, we must also consider Robinson's B4 Class, GCR 8F. Both the B4 and C4 were originally built as the GCR's new top link express engines to replace their aging 4-4-0's, but in practice both suffered badly from poor steaming and were barely able to maintain performance over their older counterparts. Sound familiar?

[@furness804productions]

They did very well when based in Stewarts Lane (up to the 1950’s). It was their work at Southampton Docks that made their wheelbase a real issue.

[@newobanproductions]

The Fowler 3F Jinty also had its own set of problems, all inherited from the Midland Railway (which I can only remember two of them). The sandboxes are in constant fear of getting wet and having contaminated sand from water thrown from the water tanks, while is Derby design meant it one major DERBY PROBLEM, the work's rubbish axleboxes.

[@AVFCAM]

Can confirm about the gradient at Bromsgrove, if one of the traction motors is out on my EMUs, it’s like pushing treacle up a hill…

[@JChristiansenLuckythebrony2222]

One thing I found myself wondering the other day, (do bear in mind that this would be _very_ anachronistic to when Thomas was supposed to arrive on Sodor in Railway series ) "what if Thomas was a USATC S100?" That class of locomotive has a higher tractive effort than the LBSC E2 (albeit only barely at 21,630 lbf), but the downsides of 1,200 US gallons of water (less than the E2), the 1.112153 long tons of coal (again less than the E2), a longer wheelbase than the Jinty at 29 ft. 6 in., and the fact that as an American-built engine it has outside cylinders, making it not look the part when compared to the E2 or the LMS Jinty. The whole point of this comment really was just to explore a random "what if" that popped into my head once.

[@marty6779]

Just today I saw a picture of a Furness Railway 0-6-0. It looked perfect (almost like the Stewart Reidpath model of Thomas).

[@Lamp_2155]

I think the problems with Thomas Henry and James could all be solved if they were Sodor designs No e2 No one off 2-6-0 class 28 No experiment with stolen plans I’ve always felt that Gordon being sent over after trial runs didn’t make sense but this would solve the problem

[@banjoshmanjo8088]

I think the best Thomas Class would be the Fletcher J76, its small and looks like Thomas quite a bit, they were mainly used for passsenger, goods and shunting so maybe Thomas could be a modified J76 with extended side tanks?

[@richieosborn2639]

Considering Camscott’s old RWS Thomas model in Trainz, I think Thomas is an engine built from scratch to fix the E2’s problems. He was sold to the NWR, after the plans to downsize the class were foiled by the LBSCR.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

Obviously Awdry saw the illustrations of him being an E2, didn't like them then took away specific E2 features to subtly make him not an E2 and a modified different 0-6-0 tank engine that was much smaller but didn't know what specifically to make him and it never got solved.

[@masterdragon2698]

My personal head cannon is that Thomas is an E2-C. A third variant of the E2s, where the first, the E2-A, was built without the extended side tanks, the second variant, the E2-B, with them, and the third, the E2-C, was shortened to have a 10’ wheel base and extended bunker

[@Dcc357]

I don't know a metric ton about Sodor's whole railway, but it seems there is enough water tanks around the island and Thomas' branch line to keep him from getting stranded due to his low range. I don't remember if he ever had a problem with his long wheelbase. This makes him plenty useful on the island.

[@ChimpyWallah]

I really like j50 Thomas. It’s just so interesting to look at

[@charlieflockhart2203]

Have you heard of Thomas being a Furness railway G5, making it more likely he and Edward both came from the furness, the only difference being the lack of extended tanks as thomas was either a shunter or a short distance passenger engine who picked up water mid way on his journey and I'd assume coal aswell I believe as a G5 he got extended side tanks when he was brought to help build the NWR in 1914

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

A lot of the comment's headcanons label Thomas as an experimental/custom/prototype engine, which I humbly agree with. He's obviously less long, making him ideal for shunting. The extended side tanks do still have it's advantages with extra fuel capacity and having a slightly bigger bunker. Thomas' design is just so tightly packed and is kinda adorable in a way. Probably the bigger question would be how efficient would actual Thomas be against the regular E2s and other similar tank engines?

[@EngineerRailMan]

I'd say Thomas is a NWR designed. He was built on Sodor with 15 other engines. They were built for the TK&E/TW&S by Sir Topham Hatt I. It would also explain the scrap models of Thomas throughout the model series.

[@kellyashfordtrains2642]

Thomas is an E2 tank engine. I once had the Hornby E2 Thomas model (blue with red stripes), but I've replaced it with the Bachmann TV Series Thomas. He will always be an improved E2 tank engine.

[@knuckles1206]

I'd just like to point out that the og thomas deisgn is not a J50 but rather an inspired freelance (note the cab windows proportions and the longer slope in the tanks.) good video other then that although that model 2:29 is of awdry's E2 model and not his jinty model. i'd also like to mention that the long wheelbases are only realy a problom in dockyards where special dock shunting types would be used, like a fowler 2F (a cousin to the 3F Jinty that looks a little more like thomas.)

[@sanicsanic6890]

I love this version of the intro lol

[@garrymartin6474]

Putting ourselves in the Fat controllers shoes I suppose the first question you have to address is what do you want your loco to do ? The wheelbase issue wouldn't be that important unless you needed a loco to work in confined areas like some docks, some factories and some Mines Yards. There are other loco's available for that work, The next question is efficiency The E2 being the oldest design would probably be the least efficient and use more coal and water that the others. Finally is are you happy with the E2's ability to do the jobs its required to do ? Yes, then no further action required, No then a Jinty a J50 or another Pannier tank or even a J94 would be an improvement. Interesting video.

[@mirutanable]

a very imformative what if... style video i loved every second of it

[@the_autism_express]

Real quick, imma throw out the top speeds of the three engines shown: LBSCR E2: 70 MPH LMS 3F: 60 MPH LNER J50: 45 MPH So, even though the E2 class wasn't perfect, they were makin ban in the speed department

[@knuckles1206]

Proof? only the J50s speed sounds all that realistic

[@the_autism_express]

@@knuckles1206 for the 3F, it's basically a quick Google search As for the E2, it's said that those engines would start to oscillate at 50 MPH, and the thomas wiki says that Thomas's top speed is 70 MPH

[@knuckles1206]

@@the_autism_express and thomas is not a normal e2

[@SierraRail3Prod]

The Wooden J50 Thomas is the perfect example for an actual J50, because the Original model Awdry made, has a GIGANTIC bunker, and the Real J50 has a big bunker too, but not AS big.

[@silasradzai6775]

I cant wait to see your Jinty Thomas! Do you know when you will be done?

[@3xfaster]

Hrmm, I say a modified E2. Rebalance pistons to wheel size (the vibration problem at speed) A boiler more suited to type or retubed to promote a proper draft (it shared a boiler type with many other thus steaming problems carried over, including a tendency to spew hot coals when the throttle was wide open) Austerity bunker (everyone points towards coal capacity but it’s the boiler eating all that extra fuel, not that it didn’t have enough) Condensing gear (a thirsty lad should be a bit more water wise) A center wheel with wider flange to help with those tight turns (shunting duties at the docs) Keep the dual brake system (just train the drivers to be gentle on the brakes) One could reduce the wheel base length, but let’s keep it as is otherwise that’s a totally different frame. I’m sure The North Western Railway had a budget to fix up Thomas, otherwise I don’t think they would have bothered with Henry’s rebuild after getting welsh coal and then suffering his crash.

[@saltbombcreations8336]

There was originally going to be a J50 built in 2019, but unfortunately it was cancelled due to circumstances beyond control. The parts were donated to be part of one of the 2 new LNER P2s. I mean Britain, you can try again after the P2s’ constructions are complete, but why are a lot of Brits timid these days? Well not the youtubers, Queen Elizabeth, the Prime Minister, and others.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

Why a J50 of all tank engines to be rebuilt? Though I still cannot wait for Prince Of Wales' completion.

[@saltbombcreations8336]

@@TheBrickGuy7939 Yeah but I’m hyped for the PRR T1 that they’re building

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

@@saltbombcreations8336 Oh yes the locomotive that will rival Mallard.

[@saltbombcreations8336]

@@TheBrickGuy7939Mallard: I am the fastest. T1 5550: Gotta go fast! Gotta go fast! Gotta go faster! Faster! Faster! Faster! Faster! Faster!

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

@@saltbombcreations8336 Imagine the news if it does break its record.

[@josetapia9582]

There is also a couple other locos like the Furness railway g5s in which they almost looks similar to Thomas barring the side tanks and the Dowalis ironworks Arthur Keen locomotive also looks similar but with a couple of differences

[@sanicsanic6890]

Thomas is a tank engine who lives at the big station on the island of sodor. He could eat a whole bowl of alphabet soup and vomit up the vowels and consonants separately. He could speak 7 languages but was disliked in all those countries.

[@HenryGreenEngine3]

I look forward to your video about Henry and his bizarre story

[@billmnt7174]

I like the idea of him being one of the furnace G classes

[@danielferrovias]

Yeah. Would make even more sense for him and Edward working together building the NWR.

[@macdoeman4560]

I would've made Thomas a LSWR C14 0-4-0. They were small, had a short wheel basis, used for shunting and push-pull passenger services; but had less power than an E2. That said, the lack of power would explain how the trucks easily pushed Thomas down Gordon's hill ^^

[@ItsDaikan]

Love the vids man, enjoy every single one😁

[@comicfan1324]

Although I personally love Thomas has an E2, but I don’t think anyone can argue that there were more efficient British tank engines Thomas could’ve been.

[@ebenezeronile]

What about the J68 it looks similar

[@Vomahanew]

I would love if you did one of these on Percy. How you interpret his build history could be interesting.

[@robloxsodor5588]

This is what I always wanted to know

[@SouthernMaineFoamer]

I used to consider Thomas as an E4 of all things, but I’m starting to like Thomas as a Jinty. Sure it’s not the best tank engine in the world and it doesn’t work the best in the lore, but I think I could make some sacrifices and hopefully make it work. In terms the other options, when trying to make “Broomstick Thomas” as actually part of the lore, it doesn’t truly have a true basis. I think when we try to find a basis, we just find the J50 as the easiest name to remember and makes it simplified. And Thomas as an E2, well it’s the E2. So yeah, in my head canon, Thomas as a Jinty works the best in my opinion.

[@ThoseAreNotExpressCoaches]

I've always viewed Thomas as a heavily modified lbscr E2.

[@Abbojnr]

My first model train (not a hand me down or inherited one) is a Jinty and I've managed to find one that has the same colour scheme, I'm going to take my model to go see it one day and get some nice perspective pics of them,

[@EtBEF_02]

I think of thomas as a prototype experimental design for the R.O.D. as a shunter for the war front in 1917. I also have pondered if he could have a brother either maybe survived and worked in France, killed on the front or survived in England, possibly surviving the end of steam, possibly not. Or he is a one off, idk

[@maxnash8450]

I personally prefer Thomas as a J69 but that’s just me.

[@lukeslocomotives]

thinking about it, thomas looks like an e2 body on a hunslet austerity chassis

[@tajsmith5050]

The E2’s in my opinion were actually successful. A locomotive for heavy shunting around the tight curves of Brighton docks. Despite the issues with hauling trains, shunting trains were a easy task. We also must factor on how the class survived. Lasting all the way to the end of steam.

[@garrymartin6474]

They Survived almost to the end of steam as many antiquated loco classes did on the Southern Railway/region as nearly all the budget was spent on electrification.

[@willsen8908]

Guese we have very different opinions on the E2, you think that it was succesful , i think it was horrible

[@Boog___]

I like to think about Thomas as a j50. Bachmann👀

[@TheTopazToad]

It's worth noting, too, that the E2's boiler was recycled from withdrawn 4-4-2 I2 tank engines, which had also been poor steamers. Makes you wonder if a made-to-order boiler design would have improved the E2's capabilities.

[@splicetape9435]

This is so weird, I was discussing this very topic yesterday at work. (Very slow afternoon, no idea how we got to Thomas.) We finally concluded that The Fat Controller made a hike up to the Standing Stones in Killdane.