What IS Percy The Small Engine? - The Disorientated Basis Of Sodor's #6

[@Im_here170]

I just like Percy in general because of the way that he’s designed and characterized is so unique

[@rhyermine1004]

exactly, the reboot and cgi versions makes him a scaredy cat when hes actually cheeky and kind.

[@Im_here170]

@@rhyermine1004 I know for real I mean I personally don’t mind CGI version but I do miss the old one where he’s cheeky cute🤣😊

[@zmpjacksoncomics2077]

@@rhyermine1004 he’s a mix of the classic Thomas and classic duck I’d say

[@rhyermine1004]

exactly

[@captainhuggyface6731]

Agreed

[@DaylightFan4449]

seeing as railroads sometimes had "one off" engines that were more or less experiments/prototypes, im going with that for Percy, he started out as one of those 2 mentioned in the video, but was chosen to be the prototype for a possible new design or upgrade based off those engines

[@jlaws8740]

That is a good idea.

[@Vespuchian]

I find it entirely plausible that Percy is a 'bitzer' made of spare parts at the Crovan's Gate engine works, perhaps to test out that unique saddle tank/boiler shape. This also goes some way to explain why other engines think he looks odd, being made of parts that weren't intended to end up on the same engine together.

[@lil4kid427]

Percy is one of my favorite characters, his personality and everything about him is just so good.

[@calebc.2290]

I find it funny that Percy gets the most insulting names from a green caterpillar to a green goblin it’s comical. Also let’s not forget the amazing faces he has, such as in Deputation when he’s explaining what it means, open up the dictionary to find the word smug and his face is right there.

[@nathanoconnor9681]

I'll say it a million times, A real life engine that holds the strongest resemblance to percy is the GWR 1338 0-4-0ST Tank, The proportions are all there, the only real thing you'd need to do to it to make it look perfect is remove the extra reversing gear and the GWR Saftey bonnet on the dome, other than that it looks perfect.

[@SuperSudrian]

It seems you are right, I can definitely see the resemblance!

[@robblair3703]

Just looked it up. Spot on.

[@NorthWestern1919]

I say GWR 1340 "Trojan" holds a stronger resemblance. Not only does it not have the reversing gear and safety bonnet, but it also has a larger saddle tank, much like Percy.

[@nathanoconnor9681]

@@NorthWestern1919 But it's far too small in height and length, Look at any of the illustrations and you'll see Percy is a big 0-4-0, very tall and wide, 1338 matches that more.

[@NorthWestern1919]

@@nathanoconnor9681 I actually never noticed the height and length differences between 1338 and 1340. Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps Percy is the same size as 1338, but has a water tank similar to 1340.

[@alegotankengine5413]

Trainboy: “Percy can be whatever you want him to be” Me: he is 100% an A4

[@TheHighRoad1748]

🤦

[@rokamayono2312]

Lmao

[@LancashireAndYorkshire]

Smh my head he's clearly an LNWR Bloomer 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

[@mariobest93]

No, he's *obviously* a Union Pacific Big Boy.

[@matthewthetankengine811]

NO NO NO! he's an 08 class diesel engine it's too obvious.

[@lennyzagara4600]

This is why this fandom is so great because we have such a wide spectrum of media in this universe of talking railway locomotives we could all pretty much make this ever growing franchise into whatever we want to make us interested that’s why I have so much fun with this franchise

[@PixProductions2]

I’m pretty sure Percy’s just a one off freelanced design that got modified a lot of times, although in real life there was a Hudswell Clarke engine called Nellie that looked pretty similar to Percy

[@alexfaulkner6275]

I personally think Percy was built for an industrial railway by using Trojan as a base design but making the engine a bit bigger and adding a coal bunker.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

@@alexfaulkner6275 Honestly he might just be a shortened GWR 1361.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

Honestly, his TV series model reminds me of a toy.

[@alexfaulkner6275]

@@TheBrickGuy7939 now that you mention it I can see the resemblance between Percy and the 1361 class.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

@@alexfaulkner6275 Only drawback besides the 1361 having six wheels is the cab windows are not circular.

[@adelwulf8864]

My favourite Percy moment is when they're talking about favourite stations, and he brutally burns Toby.

[@tnytmytx]

What episode?

[@adelwulf8864]

@@tnytmytx Percy and the ram.

[@Thebreakingbadthomasfan23]

@@adelwulf8864 That’s not the actual episode

[@Thebreakingbadthomasfan23]

@@adelwulf8864 it’s baaa

[@nathangitz2674]

@@Thebreakingbadthomasfan23 It IS what it's technically called in Japan.

[@SeaSwine9-Vid]

Consider; Percy is actually a caterpillar. He hatched from a big egg found round the back of the shed. Someday, he'll make himself a big cocoon and hatch into a beautiful chufferfly.

[@AndrewtheLNERA1]

i fucking died

[@SodorTrain1225]

Percy the Very Hungry Caterpillar ate all the coal his little stomach could handle, then he became a chufferfly, flew into the workshop, and became an engine. Boom.

[@NitroIndigo]

Reminds me of "Never Overlook a Little Engine".

[@SparklingJam]

@@SodorTrain1225I cried

[@SparklingJam]

@@AndrewtheLNERA1same

[@HenryGreenEngine3]

Percy and Henry share more in common than either of them ever knew

[@fanofhiro808]

Trainboy: *Uploads video on my birthday* Me: Oh man, the day just got better

[@alexfaulkner6275]

Happy birthday

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

Happy birthday.

[@BashofMistyIsland]

Happy Birthday Master of the Railway!! 🎂🎂

[@tempertantrum6464]

Happy B-day dude!

[@theengineeringdemon8897]

Percy: So...When you say you can imagine "me" as "anything" you imagined me with a beyond troublesome truck with basically a canon to shoot during the war? - Trainboy: .... P E R H A P S .

[@MackenziiRivers]

Nice to see a video on my fav character from the show about his design

[@AJSSPACEPLACE]

I like to think Percy represents any obscure/one-off locomotive, that has been lost to history. Which isn’t out of the realm of possibility. How many locomotive do we know existed, but don’t even have pictures of?

[@Ptica_Arop]

I love the way Percy looks in the cartoon. I like it precisely because it doesn't look like anyone in particular. He is special for me in everything. And when, in recent seasons, he had new shiny handrails and dandy rivets, he became a handsome man in general) All this, combined with a cute face and gentle character, gave a unique character that is impossible not to love. Just for what he is)

[@donaldthescotishtwin]

Percy was literally drawn as a “trojan” loco in Woolly bear

[@_An_Edits_]

I've always been wonder what Percy's basis was. And i got a better answer than I thought.

[@slasherhero9795]

1:45 I love that cover

[@SodorTrain1225]

In my personal head canon, Percy is Trojan's brother (and is built in 1924), but was rebuilt soon after when some workmen discovered a few things; his cab wasn't roomy and comfortable enough for the crew and his firebox was too small. So, he was shunted back into the workshop, and was given a Hunslet cab (later used for J94s), and a bigger firebox. Because of Trojan's name, the Fat Controller named his new shunter after the Greek hero Perseus, like what Railway Mania did, but Percy soon stuck. He arrived on Sodor in 1925.

[@neaymayonaka6419]

It’s always WHAT is Percy the small engine, It’s never HOW is Percy the small engine.

[@matthewthetankengine811]

how is he

[@matthewthetankengine811]

how is he any way

[@TheVictorianPlanespotter]

He is good

[@MarcinOsadowskiNiePrawdziwy]

He is happy to be a green caterpillar:)

[@CrashJay]

Well we know that though. He's a cheeky little engine. And he loves working on the Fat Controller's railway.

[@Deuce_and_a_half]

Percy is my favourite engine. Thomas and Friends was such a big part of my childhood, Percy is where I got my favourite colour and number from.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

My headcanon has it that he is a shortened GWR 1361. That looks just like Percy but longer and it looks the same height as Thomas which is how the TV series portrays him. The smokebox, funnel height, water tank size and coal bunker all scream Percy.

[@berkshireerielocomotive3322]

Percy is accident prone, and therefore, could have had so many accidents prior to his coming to Sodor, that he was repaired with whatever was available. His umpteenth rebuild could have possibly taken place at the workshop Sir Topham Hatt I purchased him from. It's not uncommon for a vehicle to repaired with parts that remotely fit, especially in the heavy equipment industry. Peterbilts can bashed with Mack parts, and Mack trucks can be found to have been retrofitted with Ford truck interior parts.

[@Dat-Mudkip]

Good argument, especially if the original railway Percy worked on was tight on cash!

[@Randomstuffs261]

My boy Percy is a Green Caterpillar with Red stripes

[@rishushah4199]

“Percy can be whatever you want him to be” So I can have Percy be a literal super saiyan god that can destroy the universe.

[@rishushah4199]

@TheP725 lol you should do that.

[@rav_productions2136]

I honestly can't blame dalby for quiting, having your work constantly critiqued would be a pain in the ass

[@illinoiscentralmodeler]

Percy started as a big boy but got extensively rebuilt

[@elizabetharas5748]

I always thought of Percy as a prototype engine when I was younger

[@solarflare623]

Personally I like to think Percy is an industrial shunter that’s been rebuilt so many times that he’s completely unrecognizable from when he was first built.

[@merlinandmurdoch7837]

Percy is a cute little bean, that’s what he is

[@dieselelectricrazor377]

For all we know, Percy is a one-off design built at random by the workshop with spare parts

[@thesudricenginee]

Percy is one of my favorite characters. Just by his design he gives me positive vibes. Also dude's theme is the best

[@ajaxengineco]

I made up a diagram of a Percy, by hand, in pencil, & labelled many of the individual bits with the names of various British locomotive firms. The list is as follows: Frames: Avonside, (with extensions.) Boiler: Swindon, (same as a 1361.) Smokebox: Manning Wardle. Smokebox Door: Hunslet. Cylinders: Hunslet. Valve Gear: Fletcher Jennings. Wheels: Hudswell Clarke. Cab: Bagnall, (Peckett fittings.) Saddle Tank: Hunslet. Injectors: Bagnall. Buffers: Avonside.

[@bloodstreak2001]

I think Percy is a custom build one of a kind he can feel a little sad about it but he knows he is special and has his friends on sodor

[@railbaron1]

That's what I was think. Custom Built One-off's aren't uncommon, regardless the industry. What's Sad is they're seldom preserved like Timkin's 4 Aces for example.

[@stevensolway1054]

Neither did America save any of the Milwaukee Road 4-4-2 Atlantic Art Deco Streamliners built in 1935.

[@bluebellsfan8704]

Great video! Percy is one of my favourite characters and I can't wait for the model your making

[@jackforde4883]

If anyone has seen the GWR 1338 tank engine, I always thought that was Percy with an added coal bunker

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

I would say he is a shorter GWR 1361 with four wheels. For me, everything about that class besides having six wheels and non-circular cab windows, screams Percy.

[@User-3O3]

Percy is an unnamed class of 0-4-0ST locomotive designed by Rev. W. Awdry. :) One thing we can be pretty confident in is that Percy is not a Caledonian Pug. Hornby was originally going use their model of the C.R. Pug as the basis for their Percy model, but Awdry and Alcroft didn't like it, so Hornby decided to design a tooling from scratch to resemble the TV model. Percy is one of just five characters from T&F that Hornby designed original toolings for, the other four being Toby, Bill, Ben, and Dart. They also designed a new tooling for the 0-4-0 Thomas which was only included in a set along with Percy that they made for a brief period in the mid-90's and was never sold seperately.

[@PhineasTurner]

I've always wondered what it would be like if Percy was a peckett locomotive.

[@Arkay315]

In my mind I think of Percy as a modified Trojan. And I remember as a kid pausing the VHS player looking at Percy wondering what is Percy!?!?!?

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

I also couldn't figure out what he was either! I remember having the 2007 Hornby annual and couldn't find a strong resemblence to Percy anywhere! But I like to now think of him as a GWR 1361 with the running board and wheel basis of a Trojan.

[@sanstheskeleton7329]

In my headcannon, Percy is a GWR Avonsider dock tank from the eastern portion of the railway, originally number 1304. He was built around the same time as Trojan, number 1340. They were built in the same workshops, yet have _very_ different accents.

[@SaltyVan]

I agree with Unlucky Tug’s opinion that Percy is GWR No 1339/Cardiff railway No 6

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

I think one that closely resembles him is the GWR 1361.

[@shamardempster3586]

I personally headcanon Percy as the first of a class shunters built by the NWR that would be assigned to yards, stations, and ports.

[@alexfaulkner6275]

I always thought Percy was built for an industrial railway then the GWR bought him and used his design as a basis for some new tank engines before selling him to the other railways around Britain before he eventually got bought by the workshop where the fat controller bought him.

[@shamardempster3586]

@@alexfaulkner6275 The reason I made Percy an in-house design was because I thought what kind of railway can't build their own engines.

[@everfree1992]

I've come up with a theory/headcanon that all of the workshop engines in book five story 3 were all experimental or modified for purposes, and Percy was one of them.

[@Jake_Josh]

All I know is that he’s a saddle tank engine 0-4-0.

[@ChimpyWallah]

WhEeEeEeEsH

[@craigdallingproductions4430]

WEEEEEEEH SHHHHHHHHS

[@SaulsSodor]

That’s a wheel base not a class but ok

[@Jake_Josh]

@@SaulsSodor correct.

[@ChimpyWallah]

@@SaulsSodor he didn’t say it was a class, he means “saddle tank engine *AND* 0-4-0”

[@2KXMKR]

I support the idea of Percy starting out as a small shunting loco then having a coal bunker and possibly an extended smoke box fitted to allow for longer freight trips. Or he could simply be a unique experimental design like James.

[@KyndlingStoneCB]

Y’know it was interesting watching tug’s build of James, and Noting that he was a modification as well. It would be cool if we could see his history by this too.

[@tempertantrum6464]

They always ask what is Percy the Small Engine. No one ever asks how is Percy the Small Engine...

[@TrainFanProductions4935]

I've been debating what Percy really is for some time too, and while this might not have directly answered my question, you brought up a very interesting viewpoint about Percy for us all, which I'm satisfied with. Thanks.

[@reliantrailways]

1:53 It was Middleton, Payne and THEN dalby, dolby just re drew the first 2 books for better concistency (middleton's drawings were not so impressive to wilbert)

[@woos057]

I read a story once that explained it that he was rebuild so often that he doesn't fit the any engine basis directly anymore and just called his final design the "Catapillar" class because he looks like one

[@walkertang]

Love it

[@vincentmorris8431]

"Sudrian Trains" by any chance?

[@woos057]

@@vincentmorris8431 could be

[@dracoarton94]

My headcanon for Percy is that he was actually an American-built 0-4-0 saddle tank given to the British government in 1923 as a gift of alliance in the first world war. Percy was fitted with buffers and screwlink couplings, then put to work as a station pilot in London at Paddington Station. After a few years of service, Percy developed steaming problems and was sent to Crovan's Gate works on Sodor for an overhaul. After this overhaul was finished, he met the Fat Controller, who purchased him from the British Government and made him officially the North Western Railway's sixth engine.

[@SodorTrain1225]

Percy the Small Murican Engine. I like it.

[@hazyhope._.]

5:00 “DulgHAGCK and Rheneas.”

[@Jade2781]

In the book, Island of Sodor: Reading Between The Lines, it is written that Percy is a freelance built from GWR parts and pieces at Swindon Works. There is no real life exact replica of Percy

[@HA1LILPALAZZO]

the closest would be Trojan

[@mrsmileygaming2735]

Video ideas: character vs real life basis. See if there still active/Alive and not scraped This could be interesting to see if any of the characters are still “alive”

[@samsstrasburgrailroad8427]

I think he's a modded or prototype GWR 1361 but with 2 axles and some coal bunker changers along with some other things

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

I have for a while seen him as a shorter 1361 as well.

[@shovellergaming]

"Percy can be whatever you want him to be" ...Percy the A4

[@alexfaulkner6275]

So an A4 in green with red stripes, a six on the tender and Percy's cheeky face slapped on the front? I'm actually quite curious about what that would look like.

[@stingky3689]

"Percy can be anything you want him to be and you can't technically be wrong." Me: "Percy is an A4 and I can't be wrong."

[@tobythesuperfasttram]

4:37 that locomotive is not the same as the pug you showed which is a L&Y Pug. Its a LMS Kitson 0-4-0ST shunter. the area behind the saddle tank being the main identifier which is not present on the L&Y pug you showed

[@Vomahanew]

One interest historical note is that Hunslet absorbed Avonside Locomotive Works in 1934, which is on the later side of Percy's estimated arrival window on Sodor. One possibility is he was started at Avonside, finished by Hunslet, and then shortly thereafter went to work on Sodor.

[@ToastTheThe]

1:53 *sad William Middleton and Reginald Payne noises*

[@flyingtardisOfficial]

i go by percy being a heavily modified kerr stuart "witch" with either a j94/austerity inspired cab and bunker or just flipping the existing bunker and cab around for ease of use and pug-rods with maybe an element or 2 of the avonside locos, and some other design cues from various others, almost as a perfect frankenstein seeing what made percy work as best as they could, although he just ended up working just as well as any 0-4-0 so being this hodge podge was put up for sale where the fat controller discovered him, but the name percy isn't given to him so off the cuff, during the finalising of paperwork he sees the full name of the engineer responsible for percy "Theodore Percival Smith" and decides then to call the engine percy, either way this is all personal headcanon and the like but i do like to fit it too the lore without changing too much of the existing stuff :P its like seeing thomas as the prototype E2 and not a fully fleged one as he was originally designed to take over the terriers or something, either way he can still get lost and end up on sodor, and the LBSC can still write him off as scrapped, but it just adds a bit of extra headcanon-lore that doesn't break the true-lore :P

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

I'd say he is a four wheeled GWR 1361.

[@MightyMetrovick]

In my cannon Percy (along with two other saddle tank engines) were built from freelance designs and they then worked at some sort of quarry or coaling plant until it closed and they were sold together eventually ending up in a workshop where they were each bought individually.

[@InkyBoiArts]

I like to think of Percy similar to Unlucky Tug’s interpretation of James: Percy, to me, is likely a modified contractor engine with a heavy influence from other industrial shunters like Pugs, Pecketts, and of course Trojan. Either way, he’s a smol, hard working bean, and must be protected at all costs, especially from Thomas’ wankery.

[@jaytrain06]

Percy technically is a Pug, since 'Pug' was a nickname given to many 0-4-0 saddle tanks across the UK

[@jonathanpitt4601]

It's my understanding - and I could be wrong - that there are two uses of the term 'Pug'. One is the general use to which you refer - referring to just about any 0-4-0 saddle tank engine. The other is the more specific, dare I say 'official', use, referring to the Lancashire and Yorkshire design seen in the photo around the 4:45 mark.

[@skarloeyexpress4353]

I like how at the very end you can see a bit of his model on percy showing his hazard stripes, meaning he's most likely going to be an industrial take on percy.

[@deltamodelrailroading7493]

Great video! Can't wait to see your 00 model.

[@adammiranda357]

Since Percy is probably based on a GWR Trojan, doesn't that make him a Great Western engine like Duck and Oliver?

[@Pucc_YT]

after watching this i realized that percy's origins would have made a pretty rad story. perhaps passengers would have made comments on percy's unusual appearance causing percy to realize that he in fact has no other engine to call his brother like the other engines do, i guess it would be most similar to "Philip's number" from season 21. The fact that percy is the only one of his kind making him depressed and the other engines trying to cheer him up and at the end percy finds a clue to his unknown origin.

[@EddieMillerStudios]

Everyone always asks WHAT is Percy. Nobody ever asks HOW is Percy.

[@studentoflordfetusiii1434]

Since I can't be wrong on what Percy is.....He's now an A4. He is Spencer's Brother, Gordon and Scotsman's cousin and nobody can convince me I'm wrong. 😁

[@iron1349]

I have this idea that Avonside built an industrial engine which worked until the depression shut down his home factory. He was sold to a workshop which fitted him with a Bunker and whatever parts could be machined to fit and make a working engune, thus Percy.

[@cz.gazz.]

Any chance you can post that opening globe as a standalone? That was unexpectedly hilarious

[@gordonline6942]

Maybe he is a experimental engine at the GWR railway

[@SaltyVan]

I reckon Percy is either based on Trojan the avonside saddle tank, as in the video, or he could be based on Millom, a Hudswell Clarke, at the Avon valley railway

[@matt_6526]

Bro why is the model of Percy the most beautiful thing in the universe

[@ErnonFloundee23]

I believe that Percy is an one off experimental Pug with a larger boiler and bunker to allow him to travel longer distances like what Trainboy said.

[@ayjaythelnerexpressmixtraf5757]

For my overall take on percy, percy IS a LMS/ BR Pug, but before he got to sodor, his cab was given a overhaul, which explains his pug (Ish) appearance

[@DSSRAILRUNNER]

Prior To The Release Of The Great Race I Remember Watching One Of The Character Profile Promotional Videos. This One Was About Percy & It Specifically Identified Him As Being A GWR Avonside Tank, So I View That As The Canonical Basis Of Percy, Or At The Very Least In The TV Series.

[@Alarcj7]

I view Percy as an industrial engine built in the early 1930s, he would arrive on Sodor a couple years later and the rest is history.

[@stevensolway1054]

This detailed discussion is like that one episode of RED DWARF, LOLLOLLLOLOL!!!!!

[@comicfan1324]

So, Percy can be whoever we want him to be? In that case here is my totally accurate headcanon: Percy is a heavily modified Atlantic who has been turned into a tank engine resembling a green caterpillar with red stripes. Topham chose him because despite his rebuild, the fact control I could just tell that Percy was the Atlantic he always wanted!

[@traingoddess]

I like to think Percy is Trojan with an added coal bunker.

[@TomwalkerStar27]

I feel like percy is a mix of a 404 , but mashed toghether with a stolen disguise. It's 100% possible they just dumped percy onto croven's gate. Percy can literally any thing sums up percy perfectly.

[@MaximizedB]

I always believed Percy was an 0-6-0 saddle tank, or at least designed like it.

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

The saddle tank that resembles Percy in the size he is protrayed is the GWR 1361.

[@bluehero-96]

I like to think that Percy was brought over from another universe by Doctor Who.

[@evanclarke5561]

Percy might actually be a heavily reconstructed Barclay saddle tank - we don't know

[@SethsterFilms]

strasburg: *laughs in knowing percy's exact basis to make a real life model*

[@captainhuggyface6731]

I think one of those avonside locos really embody Percy well

[@CloneCarVideos]

Percy is just an anomaly that popped in from an alternate universe.

[@tankremade]

The only confirmed basis for Percy given was in the Great Race promos where Percy's basis is said to be a GWR Avonside Saddle Tank however idk how hes an Avonside Saddle Tank if he looks mostly nothing like it

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

I'm not really satisfied with him being an Avonside saddle tank. They are so low slung.

[@tankremade]

@@TheBrickGuy7939 very true, The Avonside Saddle tank is very small compared to Percy and it does not fit him tbh

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

@@tankremade Thomas looking down on Percy to talk to him. Not only that, but if Thomas actually was an E2 and Percy a 1340 Trojan it would be David And Goliath.

[@bladeobrian2144]

So TrainBoy, here’s some information you might like, Kato and Peco are teaming up to make an HOn30 model of Duke’s real life basis! You should get it when it comes out! I’ll hopefully be getting it!

[@triassictv6437]

I think that Percy was built by the NWR since it never says that the workshop he came from was on the mainland.

[@johnbaker2910]

When I was watching this. I was looking at some 0-4-0st's. And I think Percy started out life as a Swansea Harbor Trust 0-4-0. Since he looks pretty close to Ex. Swansea No. 1144. The big saddle tank kind of helps with that. And I can see someone slapping a coal bunker on the back of the locomotive for added Fuel capacity. With the amount of them built by Peckett, I would say he was one of the last ones built by Peckett.

[@thomasfan2054]

Wow,You really did a good job on this.

[@RedShocktrooperRST]

Percy is Percy and that's the way we like him

[@Ity698]

Maybe Percy was a experimental 0-4-0, because he was a GWR trojan, but got modifed, but it doesnt really matter what percy is, he could be for example, a gwr trojan, or a pug,.

[@bomberdaniel2000]

My opinion: Percy is custom built at Crovan's Gate works as an experiment later sold to the engine workshop.

[@Lamp_2155]

I view him as one of a couple of engines commissioned by his original owner as shunters

[@SPG69]

Plot twist: the reason Percy has no real basis is because he was built at crovens gate