Crank No-Start After Engine Swap? (Ford Escape)

[@WatchWesWork]

He got lucky! Those are interference engines. I've seen many of them ruined. Worse, a lot of junkyards remove the balancer when they pull the engine and they just slap it back on. So even if you never touch the balancer, you can have a really bad day!

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

I had that thought also. Good thing the cams weren't that far off!

[@calholli]

I'd never throw in a new engine without verifying the timing anyway---- In fact, you should ALWAYS upgrade your salvage yard engine's timing belt/ chain while it's there on the floor and super easy to do-- that way you know that you're starting fresh and can expect a long life after doing all that work. Just throwing in a salvage engine and not knowing the miles on the current timing belt, or how long it's even been sitting at the junk yard is just asking for it to come back and bite you in the worse way.... I suppose you can do it if you're really tight on money, but it's just such a gamble-- and the customer needs to really understand that they are rolling the dice here, vs a quick additional timing belt and water pump upgrade as it's going back in-- and now you could likely count on another 100k miles at least, likely up to 200k.

[@5tr41ghtGuy]

Engine may still start with slightly bent valve stems. However, those valve seats will get burned over time, so this this may not be as fixed as Ivan thinks it is. Shame on Ford for needlessly changing the time honored practice of keying the balancer!

[@mph5896]

@@calholli Timing belt, yes. Replace it. Timing chain, NO. Unless its a design with an internal water pump like the 3.5l Ford. Or a crummy timing chain setup like the 2.4l Chevy or 5.4l 3v Ford. Add on the 2.5l Ford, you need to confirm timing now on a used engine. 🤨

[@jdtractorman7445]

@@calholli Good point for sure.

[@overboostn]

I've run into this on an eco-boost, trying to make an engine cheap as possible by not taking the time to machine a keyway. Makes our jobs that much harder.

[@moo3993]

Thats exactly when I first learned abou this too. I told the customer no dice from me just because of the timing tools needed. This one was easier than that ecoboost I was looking at though.

[@overboostn]

@@moo3993 I got the tools, not really a lot of money. It was a huge PITA though, took me about 6 hours, don't remember the book time. So hard to get to anything on those motors, not sure I'd take the next job. LOL

[@bryanderksen4448]

There is a hole cast into the block behind the balancer. It is clearly visible at 4:10. This allows the hole in the balancer to be aligned and pinned while torqueing (did I say torqueing?) The first tech should have observed that, with or without service data. Good job going after timing, Ivan!

[@brianmason8400]

Depending on the techs experience, they may not have known about that. I did a similar one, and I've done numerous engine swaps, didn't know anything about that hole or anything until reading service data and still had to go step by step plus had to buy the special tools.

[@gailtaylor1636]

@@brianmason8400 When I was at PepBoys in spring 2020 another tech swapped damper on one. Wouldn't start. As I was walking by heard him mention this funny washer they sent with damper. I said OH NO! Printed off directions. They shipped it to dealer. I have the tool kit. Never used it.

[@kevincampbell8298]

So called special tools you supposedly need aren’t always necessary. I have an old Porsche. Dealer do oh you need these tools. I said no you don’t.. there are exceptions though.

[@gailtaylor1636]

@@kevincampbell8298 Depends on working environment. When working in a flat-rate shop where management expects 5 hour jobs be done in 1.5 hours, don't have time for making tools. Especially on one like these where bending the valves is a real possibility. The tool kit was less than 50 bucks and took 2 days to get. I was paid 30 hour. Better off getting something done.

[@jaygold4467]

Agreed. He didn't observe.

[@roxanneabbott8424]

Ivan, as one of your fans, I just have to say over several years you have advanced even more in your knowledge and expertice. And that means all your fans also advance in our thinking, thank you so much!!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Roxanne thank you so much for your support and positive comments! I appreciate every single one 🙂

[@baxrok2.]

After being burned by a mechanic on this, I made a four part YT series on it! lol I was pretty pissed. Good job Ivan!

[@kastooMcFry]

Always good to see a No Parts Required video - thanks, Ivan!

[@bigdaddymak1439]

Man your versatility in just the different makes let alone cranes, boom lifts, eye glass machines ect is amazing! Love it!

[@paulv5233]

Great work Ivan love watching your videos, as a retired master motor mechanic I worked in a very big workshop Rolls Royce, British Leyland, Volvo, BMW and every other car around in the 70s in Dublin Ireland we done everything in-house the workshop Forman used to always say when we have a car with No Start is the “Pump Working” correctly to all the apprentices and qualified mechanics ie ( proper engine compression ) have you check it before running around looking for other faults. Please check the basics, cars are basically combustion pumps with lots of shit hanging on to them. I was working on these vehicles when they were developing electronic ignition, fuel injection etc when nobody knew nothing and we did not have fancy computers and scan tools. Keep up the great work your very good. Cheers Irish Paul

[@pantherplatform]

I love it when I know it's going to start after finding and fixing the problem using the diagnostic approach.

[@wagoosh78]

one thing i learn from you is dont assume check then recheck

[@noelcastle3986]

Quick concise no BS diag . Your the man you keep getting better well done.

[@Knight_of_NI]

That’s awesome, I hate how manufacturers engineer their cars to “need” their mechanics to repair. Great job brother

[@upallnight888]

better get used to it. The days of the "Shade Tree" mechanics are long gone.

[@Knight_of_NI]

@@upallnight888 I loved working on my 68 Plymouth satellite and 70 Ford galaxie 500 so much more than I enjoy working on my modern cars. It was infinitely easier and I actually fit in the engine bay

[@99andrianmonk]

Nice job, Ivan. Quick and clear diagnosis and fix.

[@robertmedina6875]

Awesome job Ivan! Never ceases to amaze me how smart you are! I can’t wait to see the next video!

[@hondaslave-kd6hi]

Learn something new everyday thank you so much. A friction washer I would have never thought

[@dave3657]

I love watching your videos, it’s like a murder mystery, but it’s solving a mystery of a dead engine, or similar.

[@craiggoodwin9704]

Ivan, I love this demonstration of the power of the scope. Also fun to see first time startup on a major project. I can feel the relief on the technician's demeanor when that motor fired. Lucky to have someone like you straighten this one out. Thanks for Sharing!

[@bozly209]

No harmonic balancers were harmed in the making of this episode.😀 great job once again!

[@MarcHord-mk5ff]

I work on hvac, just had a situation like this. Read the install instructions and a little thinking and the guy was happy and his high dollar system works great . After 3 years. He said you’re a genius. I just downloaded the manual and set it up!

[@MarcHord-mk5ff]

Hacks bring you stacks!

[@buckhorncortez]

Sounds to me like Ford's method of doing the engine timing is simple and straightforward if you READ the service procedure and follow it. I fail to see a problem, except for people that can't or refuse to read the service procedure.

[@smithraymond09029]

From a manufacturing point of view, it cuts costs by removing machining operations.

[@eldonerc2524]

Why would you think to read the service book on a procedure you didn't do?

[@Cheepchipsable]

@@eldonerc2524 Ivan said the remover the balancer to install the engine. As a mechanic, surely you would realise it wasn't keyed when you pulled it off?

[@davidfarmer7397]

I wish you would of showed us the scope after you fixed it.

[@frozenstang3868]

Lucky guy, we have had them with bent valves . A so called simple seal replacement ends in tragedy. For can really do some crazy stuff.

[@alex1949]

I've seen non keyed, friction held cams on my brother's mercury mystique when I was replacing a timing belt. I'm a diy, so I don't work on cars on a daily basis, but even I though WTH Ford? I've done a few timing belts before this and couldn't believe this one is like this by design. Love scope diags!!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Ha yup I can confirm this on my 1996 Mystique 2.0L Zetec. At least the harmonic balancer and crank sprocket are keyed! Runs like new at 300k miles so pretty stout engine 😎

[@alex1949]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics My brother's mystique is a 2000 and if memory serves, it had about 240k when I did the belt about 4 to 5 years ago. Don't know how much it has now. I went in blind relying on experience on past belt changes. Never encountered such a system. Today, I look up the procedures since experience from one car may not translate to another anymore. Your channel is one of my go-to's. 👍

[@RussellBooth1977]

Yes, that sort of engine is also found in a Mazda,Rainman Ray unintentionally bent the valves in a Mazda which has that engine fitted which is like that & his boss had to shout the customer another used engine !

[@sweetmatthew662]

One tool required....the Pico Scope and one part.... the guy who operates it! 👍

[@johnz8210]

You really need to follow service info and get a new bolt and tighten it correctly, or this engine will be toast, too. The shop better be aware of this.

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Real head cracker without the scope! Great approach, Ivan 🙂

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Great work! Your experience is showing!

[@dendkmac]

Great job on the engine swap must do and the importance of an occiliscope in lining up, setting the timing.

[@AP9311]

Wow, nice job with oem data and adjustments made after 90 deg off! Car starts! Haha. Can't do it without the scope or data aids. Great video! I bet that guy did a fist bump when you started that thing lol.

[@Paul1958R]

Ivan, @1:58 should be '...MAZDA in their infinite wisdom...'. The Ford Duratec 4 cylinder (2.0L, 2.3L, 2.5L) is actually the Mazda L engine. Its actually not a bad setup but is definately not poka-yoke which is surprising for a Japanese design. Good call and fix! Paul (in MA)

[@JoelAutomotiveInaction]

You forgot another important piece of the puzzle , the cank shaft position sensor is adjustable, and also is needed special tool. To be properly timed. Nice work

[@SuperJoes70]

Great Video ! just common sense the right service data and the right diag approach ! thanks for sharing !!

[@markkrause3569]

Same thing happened on a 05 focus, repair shop installed a new harmonic balancer and could not get it to run so after a lot of research i checked the timing and sure enough it was off . Ran great after i set the timing with a kit that holds the crank and cams in T,D,C.

[@tmet01]

Your videos continue to improve. Great job!

[@Drcupraman]

I really admire your work, but any mechanic that has some experience with Ford should have suspected the issue even without knowing that the harmonic balancer was removed. Anyway, it's a miracle that this motor didn't bend any valves.If you have tightened this bolt though , using only your impact gun , the owner will be looking for another engine pretty soon.

[@nikkojones2784]

Love the torque spec. Guudntight...click. Ivan U Da Man

[@juancarloscrane8089]

This happens to me Ivan and I fine #1 compresion TDC and line the crank pulley good call!

[@patriot2164]

That would have been a head scratcher if you didn't have a scope , would have taken a while ! Thanks for Sharing Ivan !

[@vinces8974]

Being that there are no keyways, can those things get out of time Just by running the engine over the course of several years? Great job Ivan

[@summerforever6736]

Good point

[@davidgilpin5200]

I ♥ my 2012 Ford Escape XLT "with the big 2.5L 4 banger". It's roomy, has factory Bluetooth, freezing cold AC. The Mazda derived 2.5 isn't a fire-breather but gets the job done, has been incredibly reliable, and has reasonable mileage for such a boxy and relatively heavy vehicle. Thanks Ivan for helping save one more Escape from the salvage yard!

[@bombardier3qtrlbpsi]

No parts or tools required:-) No bonus footage 😫😱. There was a time a hard working man told me when I was very young. Don't let a piece steel out smart you. Perfect example right here 👍

[@clueless6559]

just did quick google search for escape 2.5 cam chain and nearly first thing that came up was ford workshop manual telling straight away not to loosen crank pulley without timing it as the thing is not keyed to crank ,

[@Cheepchipsable]

Shh, you can't expect people to research stuff before they touch it! You're not a man if you do that...

[@edwinlomonacofoolsend]

Oh boy. I've seen this so many times. There are clearly still techs that don't know that these Ford engines have no key ways. The thing is a lot of manufacturers are moving to this. I've recently had to do timing chains on both VW and BMW. And they're the same. No key ways. Have to use the special tools along with colored chain links. You can't do what you did here on VW. The crank bolt also holds the crank gear in place. So when you remove the crank bolt all the chains (there are 3) can literally just come off. The crank gear has a small key way but is flat onto the crankshaft. So literally nothing holds the crank gear onto the crankshaft other than the bolt. Without the tool it's almost impossible to remove that pulley.

[@teekay_1]

IMHO modern VW's are not meant to be serviced. They are meant to be driven about 100K miles and scrapped. Perfect example, replacing the rear brakes on a GTI, there is absolutely no clearance to get the caliper bolts out. They need to be unbolted from the inside, and they're on so tight that you need an impact wrench. Except there's no way to fit an impact wrench on those bolts, so you have to use a bunch of wobble adapters and pray.

[@kyletuttle9064]

Your damn good at what you do I've learned a lot from you about scopes.

[@ebrahimhasan9342]

Great job, everytime you add credit to the scope

[@andrewzipfel6826]

Great diag. Poor repair. Diamond washers and crank pulley bolt must be replaced and torqued correctly to prevent possibility of slipping in the future. Slipping = valve damage. Ironic the issue was caused in the first place by not reading service info, then a repeat is on the cards because the service info was not followed again.

[@kellyx57]

Well, that was easy! Nice work.

[@mikechiodetti4482]

Quick fix! Good Job Ivan!

[@eddiereichel9354]

He took crank bolt out to get engine in from top. I did some thing on Ford fusion and it called for engine and trans to go out the bottom. I thought I was taking short cut.

[@eddiereichel9354]

I reset mine with a certain length bolt screwed into block and the eyeballs on the end of cams.

[@Graham_Wideman]

OK, I'm confused -- there seems to be some clue I'm missing. Obviously you need to coordinate the crankshaft, the camshafts, and the various position sensors have to be reading the positions of those shafts correctly. But what the heck does the harmonic balancer have to do with all that -- surely it's there to cancel out vibration?

[@tomvleeuwen]

I don't think it's a big deal if the camshafts are a little bit off since the phasers will compensate, but wouldn't it be better to have a pin inside that hole for the harmonic balancer? Just to make sure the timing is 100%? Sure you will have a pin that fits in that hole somewhere.

[@DustawayJim]

You never cease to amaze! Great Job, thanks. Peace. . .

[@htownblue11]

Range Rover has the same engine set up in their Evoque models and the timing has no keys or markings etc. Great find and fix.

[@akhtarkh]

How is harmonic balancer driving the timing belt? I guess the valve timing is correct, only the ignition timing is off. Since the crank position sensor is sensing off harmonic balancer.

[@pantherplatform]

Had a similar case study after a customer of mine brought me his Mazda 3 shortly after picking it up from the dealership where the timing belt was replaced and it wouldn't start a couple days later. Dealership service departments...

[@theGADGETSplaylist]

interesting little quirk with this engine design...with cam end slots horizontal and all valves on #1 closed, ANY 360º TDC rotation can be made the compression stroke

[@billziegmond4943]

The Astra used a special tool to old the cams in place, MK-6628. I have one.

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

Curious what it sounded like when cranking over. No compressiony sounding? Very cool Ivan! I need a scope and a PHAD pressure transducer!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Cams were pretty close, so cranking compression sounded just fine. Main problem was harmonic balancer being off 90 degrees and throwing off the ignition timing lol :)

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Awesome. That definitely was the easiest route to make the call. Well done man!

[@raula.flores1185]

What would I do with Benie's ten channel scope? Nothing, I don't know what to look for. Good one, thanks

[@joesmo4749]

Fixed a 2013 ford edge with a 2.0 turbo, timing belt slipped and cam phaser had turned and gotten stuck. Finally got it fixed with special alignment tools. Was a turd to figure out cause timing belt never broke.

[@joesmo4749]

@Jonathan A 1.6 my bad, we work on different cars and trucks. Hard to remember when you start getting a little older. Around here different day- different car.

[@aly369]

These engines (and the older zetecs) are massively popular over the in UK, especially in the motorsport world. Almost like the SBC of the 4 banger world for us (or a 4age to japanese). The special tool kit isn't expensive and makes timing them a doddle. You remove a bung on the side of the block and place a pin into the hole. Which locks the crank at TDC NO1. Then you place the bar through the back of the cams. Make sure the harmonic balancer is in the right place and boom job done. The real fun is when you've got aftermarket cams and need to time them up!

[@aly369]

I've seen over 300Hp from a 2.0L variant naturally aspirated. Really good engines.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@aly369 300hp from a NA 2.0L?? No way lol

[@themechanicnextdoor5144]

Could you get a cam crank correlation code after just eyeballing the pulley like that and not using cam or crank lock tools?

[@simonrawle7885]

yep power of the scope . was working on a bike that cuts out on tick over . so scoped secondary ignition to see if it was fuel . nope just cut out . lead me to the reg rec

[@tam1381]

Been saying this for more than 30 years ,what an STUPID idea with no keyways at least the crank should have a keyway. Nice job Ivan.

[@t5ruxlee210]

Secrets of a 2011 Escape Four Banger ! Wonder if my 2011 V6 is the same.

[@MTLeopold]

Fordtechmaku would be proud. Nice one.

[@Sandmansa]

I had a customer come in once with a 2016 Ford Transit connect on a tow truck that someone else tried to do some kind of service on it and failed. I have no idea what they were trying to do, but it somehow required removal of the harmonic balancer. I was told that when they tried to retorque the balancer, the engine wouldn't turn. But would turn when the balancer was off. I felt so bad for the guy when I told him that he may need another engine at that point. Sure enough, the guy he had working on his truck wound up bending the valves.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Nice lol

[@johnp6636]

Crank bolt also needs replacing after removal

[@smithraymond09029]

Are they one use only? Some head bolts are like that.

[@johnp6636]

@@smithraymond09029 yes 1 time use only I had a friend find that out the hard way did the timing chain went on road test boom engine buggered just like that

[@johnz8210]

Yes, and they still didn't follow service info instructions and tighten it correctly. The diamond washer should have been replaced, too.

[@jamesu]

Thanks for the video Ivan. This timing design is worse than the 4.0 SOHC at least it had a keyway on the crank!

[@dennisharvey4499]

It would have been good to see the scope traces after the fix

[@Eurospec73]

Wow I'm glad I found this I have to say that's a great timing diagnosis you guys completed. My question is I just had my VR6 engine freshly rebuilt, and unfortunately I have a crank no start/ no spark issue and no communication to the ECU, I checked my spark fuel and Air all those physical lines are good on the engine, what else could it be? Also the car ran fine before the engine was pulled.

[@kinglangren]

I just get the kit and follow the oem data and it’s not that bad. But that was a scheduled timing belt job for my wife’s fusion. This was somewhat of a curve ball.

[@EDP1]

how do these meccanics get there diploma ? you are a genius . solving others meccanics there faults , is more and diff work then normal . thanks for sharing .

[@mph5896]

The only reason I know of this issue is watching video's about this issue. This is the second video I have seen about this. Dumb on Fords part.

[@EDP1]

@@mph5896 ive seen allot in real .people by cheap stuff . or dont do regular maintenants on there car .

[@Cheepchipsable]

@@mph5896 You would also know if you did some research...

[@arcadeuk]

This must be "The other shop" as Eric O calls it. 😂😂 "Hey I'll just throw this timing together randomly then do surprised Pikachu face when it won't start"

[@robbflynn4325]

Wow engine sounded sweet on start up. Place your bets, lol. Would never bet against you Ivan!

[@markferraro5250]

Great one IVAN HAPPY EASTER

[@gieauto7175]

That was different, nicely done.

[@eddiejones.redvees]

I had a similar problem with my old Datsun Cherry years ago when a removed the distributor and I couldn't not get it to mesh properly with the cam after phoning my uncle who was the Head mechanic at the bus workshop in Liverpool he explained how to line it back up that is why I don't work on my diesel car myself now

[@x01e]

I followed uou until, “the cam is notnquite in time” ok how? Explain how the lobes must be located. As you can not im not a mechanic just curious

[@mtntopMark]

Awesome! Appreciate the information.

[@kerrylewis2581]

I saw a hole in the block as you were spinning the balancer. Did the tech use a dowel before tightening? Edit: I just saw the same question a few lines down from my comment. I guess I was not the only person who noticed.

[@nhzxboi]

Consider this: It also gives tuner freaks the ability to screw with timing in whatever way they want. Is it so dumb? Maybe not.

[@Echo024]

I’ve seen so many of this generation Ford engine with the keyless crank pulley system cause issues due to how careful you have to be when messing with the crank pulley bolt (which is also torque to yield if I recall). Really bizarre design but at least job security for those of us who have to work on them lol

[@mbasiletti]

Good job- but is there a need to (benefit from) getting the cams and balancer aligned with more precision?

[@smithraymond09029]

Figure if it runs smooth and doesn't pop codes, it's close enough. The computer can compensate for small inaccuracies.

[@NZdiagnostics]

I wondered that too, given how meticulous Alfa Romeo were about setting up their older engines. Either several engineers had severe OCD when they were designed or there was some value to be obtained from using a dial indicator and high precision cam locks.

[@rickgalla3377]

Great job, thank u from staten island

[@justinballard7242]

Seen that one before. What a wonderful design 😂

[@GaryB007]

Is it not an interference engine? Would have expected some valve on piston action.

[@davidquinn6161]

He said the cam timing was pretty close. It was only the ignition timing that was badly off - 90 degrees.

[@bikeaddictbp]

Cranking the engine with the balancer bolt loose will break it for sure due to piston and valve collisions. Loosening the bolt will allow the cams to shift. If reinstalled without resetting the alignment (which is what happened here) it's luck of the draw. Memo to self, don't buy a Ford...

[@MohammedMohammed-op3cz]

Brilliant my friend great info.

[@paulpochan9631]

Thank Ivan..!!! I have this engine iny Fusion and have to change crank seal .. was wondering how to do it without specialty tools... Question: Does the valve cover have a gasket or require a tube of gasket maker..??

[@paulpochan9631]

I went to Ford dealer...it's a gasket. ALLDATA has you using form-a-gasket.........

[@jdtractorman7445]

Well, at least it has a timing chain not a worthless belt. That had to be close to bending valves. I've always thought Ford makes better timing chains than some other manufacturers. One engine I used to work on quite frequently was the 2.2L Ecotech that would break the timing chain on occasion, it just wasn't built strong enough and resembled a bicycle chain.

[@henrikloiske8572]

You sir are a genius

[@michaelcathey5298]

You ever go to Colorado? I'm a disabled senior with a 05 Hyundai tuscon that's giving me problems. Asking for help if possible.

[@texas77563]

Hi Ivan , if you want to come to near Houston Tx area I can host you in my shop. just bring a camper and tools. you could probably get a bunch of down south viewers to come and drop off their vehicles. ive got a enginge i need to put in a huge excavator also. my shop is just a big pole barn and not an auto shop btw

[@froggy0162]

People are still getting caught by no keyways? Goodness, this isn’t exactly new and is common to many manufacturers. There are numerous assembly and servicing benefits. It’s not rocket surgery, you just have to be not clueless… And use a torque wrench on those crank bolts!!!!

[@chrisc1623]

Does this apply to all the Duratec 2.3, 2.5 and the 3.0 engine family?

[@dazasmit2048]

Your the man.

[@iceman9549]

Ivan is bad to the bone👍👍👍👍

[@mbazzy123]

Great drag Ivan. Why would Ford do this ? One would wonder if during the warranty period that things could slip out of time and create a lot of problems? Genius move on Ford's part I guess.

[@gary5172]

Remember that movie- a beautiful mind--Ivan...the beautiful Mind!