Detailed Look at Sonarworks Reference 4

[@rickjohns689]

I've been using this for about 9 months. Absolutely cut my mixing time in half if not more, and the more I use it, the more I am confident that I got it right. No more booming bass when I test in the car stereo after mix down, because I can hear it accurately during mixing. Excellent tool.

[@creativesoundlab]

Wow cool to hear. Hearing positive feedback makes me glad I spent time making a video about. Been a game changer for me.

[@SoundIDCreators]

This is so great to hear! Spread the love!

[@darrenwatsonz]

This software made my home studio useable for mixing. I could not believe the difference it made. The album I recorded at home and mixed at home was nominated for Best Folk Album 2021 at my country's mainstream industry music awards.

[@TonyJBrennan]

I mixed my first album , all self taught , then in the middle got this software , had to go back and remix , and it turned out great for a first time project. A bit of treatment , some reasonable monitors / phones and REF 4 and you are sorted . cannot listen without it now. car test really shows you how it makes translation a breeze , and the clarity in the upper mids and highs is excellent. It should get a Nobel Prize or some such .

[@terrydoylemusic]

+1 on Sonarworks being a great tool. I use it with my analog summing rig which means that I have to put it on the group outs ... and remember to de-activate when I bounce. A small inconvenience but worth it. As it is an EQ adjustment we have to bear in mind that if you have ringing modes it will reduce the energy feeding them but there will still be some ringing if you monitor loud. All in all a great product for mixing faster.

[@a1guitarmaker]

Best review I've seen on this. You actually showed us visually and aurally what it does.

[@MichaelBLive]

Yeah, been using it for a month. It has vastly improved my mixes. Very happy with ti.

[@creativesoundlab]

Nice!

[@thoughtlesshead]

I tried out the demo and was blown away... going to pick this up real soon using your link.

[@mrdanjames]

I was recording in India last year, it was an ad hoc setup in a strange room. When I got home everything sounded right because of sonarworks. Couldn't do location recording anywhere near as well without it. There is just a confidence that you don't have to learn a strange room any more.

[@idolhands88]

Best review of this software I’ve seen thus far. Thank you

[@NogorianChant]

Super cool, I got it through your link. I'm excited for it to arrive. My band was through Asheville a couple weeks ago for a show that night. We're from RVA so I'd hope to record at your place in the future, it would be worth the trip! Best wishes!

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks so much man! Yeah, would love to have you guys here!

[@RecordingStudio9]

I've been trying it out for few weeks now and I'm just about to jump and click the purchase button, with mic included. Your video came in just in time for my decision. Thanks Ryan. As always...

[@creativesoundlab]

Nice! Yeah it's been a game changer. Really has.

[@RecordingStudio9]

Just purchased using your link. :)

[@ricc333]

I've been really wanting this for a while. Now I want it more.

[@DDC-12]

I’m contemplating on getting this myself I have the same problem with the low end in my studio.

[@fizzoftheburn]

Thanks for the great video Ryan! I just ordered Ref4 last night. I seriously can't for it to show up, so I can get to work!

[@pacificresonance]

nice. Glad to see this works for you. Absolutely the most important thing for a mic room is the acoustic environment. Saves countless hours of frustration. Have you tried experimenting with your listening placement and speaker placement and comparing the changes? I treated a room for a client last month that was giving me +/-6db changes in the low end from 1’ speaker movements! Crazy! That’s usually my first goto when treating a room - finding the absolute best spot for the Speakers and listening placement that I can, and THEN I’m often using DSP as icing on the cake. Sometimes the speakers end up a little wider, narrower, closer, or farther away than what feels natural or what “looks right”, but the response and accuracy can be so worth it.

[@pacificresonance]

*mix room

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah I put a card when I mentioned the video about moving my monitors around and such. I've spend a lot of time and energy giving it my best shot, and had Eric Sarafin come over to talk me through ideas to and listen. He said it was a good sounding room, but I knew there were some holes in the sound. What measurement software do you use?

[@RecordingLounge]

Creative Sound Lab - I use Room EQ Wizard for most jobs and in my own personal studio. Amazingly versatile and detailed readouts of frequency response, phase, decay, impulse response, and more.

[@LeonPhythian69]

sorry to jump in on the thread guys, and first off great video as always could the low end struggle be the proximity of speaker to wall? I noticed the lovely decoupling. I have been reading Bobby Owinskis books (again) as am attempting to build my own studio. One thing he always mentions, is a loss in the smoothness of response below100 Hz when the monitors are positioned close to the wall. obviously sorry if you had already considered this. peace. L.

[@2sh739]

sonarworks reference is gold! experimenting with monitor placement has become a breeze, and I can have confidence in the placement i decide to go for.

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah same here.

[@ckjjclan]

Got this 3 weeks ago, helped my low minds and highs... 1/2 the work to my final mix now....the first "car test" is usually pretty good now....

[@creativesoundlab]

Nice!

[@shanelarue8162]

great points in the beginning! great stuff

[@adamwasthefirstman]

Yep. Definitely on my list.

[@dstagl]

I had a similar experience the first time I used Sonarworks a few years ago. I demo'ed it on a project for a regular client, and it was the first time they didn't send me any tweaks. The notes I get back now are the same kind of thing--mostly taste and creative related. One thing I'll say is I never use it flat, though, because I find that's way too bright. So I just took my reference tracks and played with the tilt and bass until the stuff sounded the way I expect it to in my sweet spot.

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah I've noticed that too. In general I like darker sounding stuff.

[@dstagl]

I've been pretty happy with a response similar to what Carl Tatz does with his Phantom Focus system. You can see them in his brochure. www.carltatzdesign.com/downloads/ctd_pfbro0513.pdf

[@lylaznboi01]

I've been using the headphone version. It has definitely helped my mixes over the past year or so. I'm rarely at my main studio to mix so I don't have the studio version yet.

[@Tephra]

I can't really have monitors in my student apartment because of its terrible acoustics, so I've been using Sonarworks with my HD800 headphones and god damn, the mixes translate surprisingly well when I play them back in fully treated studios. Mixing on headphones has kind of a bad rep, but with a decent pair and Sonarworks, you can actually do full mixes with little to no issue. Just make sure to check the stereo image on speakers.

[@creativesoundlab]

Really cool to hear. I have not done a ton of mixing on headphones but I am starting to do a lot of at home music creation on Ableton Live for fun. I use the 50x and I'm thinking of sending them in to get them to measure them. I've heard it's amazing.

[@Tephra]

Yeah, that is definitely the better option. I'm only using the general profile for my headphones, and the mixes tend to turn out slightly harsh on the high end. It's not something I can't take into account when mixing though, so I won't prioritize sending the headphones in for measurement as of right now (international shipping and all). I have a friend who bought pre-measured HD600's directly from them and he's really impressed with the results.

[@SoundIDCreators]

Oh! Great to hear! The difference can be quite huge. The average profiles have an accuracy of +/- 3dB whereas the pre-calibrated set have precision of +/-0.9dB - the same precision for speakers. As long as you are able to make music, we're super happy but if you want to take it to the next level - beg/borrow/steal you friend's HD600s.... or enter one of our giveaway ;)

[@thomasschottl7506]

Hey Ryan! As always - great video, I love watching your videos. Here's just one question: do you use the Reference 4 Software just in the mixing stage do you have it enabled all of the time, even in the recording stage? the latter just sounds logic to me as you would get the recording right in the first place because you're already listening to a "neutralized" sound so to say, that is not overlapped by any room resonance. Thank you so much for everything!

[@monkeyxx]

Really cool idea, I might have to give it a shot! I already know my L/R balance is slightly off...

[@joelbunion]

Ryan, I just received Sonarworks Reference 4 yesterday and I've been using it all day today. I happen to have the same set of Focal Solo6 Be monitors as you, and when looking at your original frequency response graph, I see the left and right dip below 100hz was the same as mine! I also had that weird bump around 130hz as well. I was really starting to question my ears and those speakers. After calibration, I the bass and higher end are greatly improved. My guess is there was some comb filtering going on down there? I'm looking forward to mixing with the plugin and seeing how much more efficient I can become. Thanks for the excellent video.

Wow! Definitely worth to try

[@ddsrecording]

I also wonder, if I already have the Behringer version of a test mic, I wonder if i can use that? And tell it that I am using that?

[@creativesoundlab]

Part of the magic is that the program knows each variable and therefore can tell what part of the sound is coming from your room.

[@youowemeapony]

You won't get accurate results with the behringer, but it might be close enough to get an idea. The mic is really cheap, and actually sounds really good on instruments too! Absolutely worth it! Also, I run a sub in my system and it integrates perfectly.

[@ddsrecording]

Yeah it actually doesn;t sound half bad for stuff like opera in a hall or even as the "mid" mic in a mid-side setup.

[@SouthPhilly28th]

Do you keep the safe headroom button selected when you mix? Also, is good to keep the limit controls set to neutral for both high's and low's? Thank you! Awesome video!!!!!

[@creativesoundlab]

Yes the headroom, unless I'm trying to get a sense of the loudness of the exports/renders. I forget for the limit controls /neutral settings. I don't think they are extendend, but pry the middle setting.

[@md4man]

This is some impressive software. It has helped me trust what I am hearing. One suggestion: Use a mic stand when testing. It'll save you a lot of unnecessary work. By the way, your room is better than mine based on our curves. I have a huge dip at about 90Hz & some other issues similar to your room.

[@damnfractal]

The guys from the company actually suggest not using a mic stand.

[@chrisvanek7877]

Wow, that's an incredible difference..

[@regalbeaglestudios]

Can you use the mic for other things after you calibrate your room? Is it good for anything else?

[@RoaldFre]

Yes, it's a small (tiny) condensor omni mic. It's just a regular XLR mic that you can use for whatever you like, but it has a (very) high noise floor due to the small diaphragm (it needs to be small to capture the high frequencies correctly and omnidirectionally).

[@georgemickeldotcom]

Thanks for the vid!

[@jorgepeterbarton]

Do you need the reference mic? Do they have curves for the popular condensers for example like they do with headphones

[@SoundIDCreators]

We don't because, even though we could get average profiles of speaker curves in an anechoic chamber, the room is doing more than you think. You will also need to use a "measurement microphone" and not a condenser microphone. If you do use another measurement microphone (hopefully not), be sure that it comes with a calibration profile.

[@jorgepeterbarton]

so the mics have calibration profiles? I mainly wondered if i could somehow judge it on the demo version first with a small diaphragm condenser, and the program having data for this mic model like it does with headphones, so that any inaccuracies can be ironed out. The ref mic is low cost i realised.

[@gregg_msk]

Why do you place your monitors wrong?)

[@coldprojectofficial]

Have you compared your old mixes to the new ones?

[@studiodebras]

Awesome.., I think..? I got a stupid question Ryan; I can see how the software could deal with nulls and bumps in the lows and low mids, compensating for room modes and all right? What I don't understand is why - in your demonstration - the software is boosting so much hi mids and highs, that should not be a problem in a near field listening position I would think? It makes me wonder if the software isn't just 'correcting' the specific voicing of your monitors? (Brighter is better..?!) And while I'm at it, if the software helps you 'learn' your room and/or your monitors better, would you eventually be able turn it off again and work in the room 'as is'? Or make adjustments to the room? Or change your monitors? It kind of like feels like chasing your own tail down a rabbit hole when I think about it too long... Apologies for being long winded. Thing is, I'm unsure of what this is supposed to be; a band aid or crutch, a tool for qualitative analysis, or a panacea, icing-on-the-cake thing that'll improve listening in any room no matter how well/poorly adapted to the purpose?

[@creativesoundlab]

Great question. I learned a lot in a very short time with Sonarworks. There is a dry/wet knob and you can dial it in and out to hear the difference. There are also some different "Target" curves that you can apply. There is an on/off button on the plug in so you can be very active with turning it on and off. And of coarse it's just a plugin, so you can kill the plugin as well without opening it. As to your question about the "Curve" of your monitors, yes, there is a little of both room and monitor correction going on I'm sure. What matters is that you have the right amount of highs as the goal is to be "Flat". Not that you can't work in non-flat monitors even if the room was perfect, but that is the idea. It's just a starting point and if you want flat, then it's available. Some like a mix of dry/wet. I know Ryan Bruce (Fluff) said that he likes it at 85%. From flat you can alter it with the "Tilt" and "Target" feature which actually give it flavor and color.

[@RobFraticelli]

I will definitely get this before christmas, and of course, I will use your defferal link. What other ways can we support the channel?

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks for such a thoughtful comment Robby! I have courses that I sell, and Patreon too. The courses is the main way that people can support the channel. creativesoundlab.tv/support-creative-sound-lab

You tried moving within the mixing position? My main concern is having to be static in a position for the adjustment to work

[@creativesoundlab]

Yes, I can move around a lot and it stays really consistent. Again, I don't know how they do it. It's so strange that it's that consistent.

[@SoundIDCreators]

It is a really good question! Of course, we took this into consideration. We actually recommend that, through the measure process, not to use a mic stand. Use your hands (extend the arm out so there are no reflections from your body). This gave it a more human reading and measurement because, as you know, you'll sometimes slouch back, rest your elbows on the desk, sit to the side of the chair. So we take the 37 measurement points all in context with each other and we do some pretty smart (propitiatory) work under-the-hood that allows you to hear a consistent sound in any mixing position from room to room.

[@robehickmann]

do you need an expensive reference microphone to get the best out of this?

[@starshipwaters]

From my experience, you will get the best and most accurate results using a reference mic from them. Before I got it, I used my mic I had from ARC 2 with the Sonarworks software, and it was good, but the calibrated mic from Sonarworks I got later gave far and away a better, more accurate sound.

[@creativesoundlab]

Nope. I think I saw that it was $50 more for the package w the mic. Which that is what you want because they measure it before they ship it to you.

[@AdamRainStopper]

Ryan shooting his computer with a ray gun...... Hey, I've been dying to get your opinion on "bone-conduction" headphone technology, specifically if you think a pair of wired headphones like these would be good for vocalists instead of having to either track with monitors and get bleed from them or have the singer try to sing without being able to properly hear him/herself because of the headphones. Your thoughts, Raygun Earnhardt?

[@zaphodrahja]

It works by applying a corrective Eq

[@jhowellkc]

Maybe it's my earbuds on a phone, but the bypassed mix sounded warmer and more cohesive to me. Ymmv.

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah the "bypassed" mix IS the current mix as I hear it. This is only meant to correct my speakers not the mix itself. Remember it's arbitrary to you and just is showing that "this is what it takes to make my room sound flat".

[@ddsrecording]

My room is ridiculously teated with superchunk bass trps, diffusion, broaband absorption, etc, but I'd still be interested in getting this. Problem is I also use a sub. I wonder how this would work if you had a sub...

[@SoundIDCreators]

Many are in the same situation! You can calibrate your studio in a 2.1 situation. If the frequency response is +6dB in the sub, we recommend you recalibrate with the sub turned slightly down.

[@ddsrecording]

Ok cool, but then what about crossover...what if I don't have the crossover (on the sub) at what Sonarworks considers to be optimal, but rather, was just set up by ear...which it was.

[@korneykretov4668]

No need to use a plugin when you mix, just switch to sonarworks in daw preferences and daw will sound through systemwide.

[@garrisonwhipple1289]

Korney Kretov still have to bypass it when consolidating and bouncing tho

[@darylfortney355]

Ref 4 is the best but instead of using systemwide you need to try menuBus (www.menubus.audio) instead. It lets you load any plugins that it processes across all system audio, set presets, keyboard hotkeys, and has better sound.

[@creativesoundlab]

Interesting, so just use the sonarworks plugin.

[@darylfortney355]

exactly... if you have any questions contact the developer directly. he is a great guy who fully supports his product and is quick to respond with answers. the product though is dead simple to use, even simpler then systemwide.

[@darylfortney355]

... of course though if you like it then pay back some of the love by doing a video review of it. he is an indie developer and would greatly appreciate the exposure.