Heroes who Sinned; Prometheus, Amirani and Jesus

Some heroes do things that the chief God doesn't approve of, despite being popular amongst the people. The stories are found within the myths of the "Chained Heroes", stories such as Prometheus, stories that have a darker side than most realize.
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► References
“Iran and the Caucasus” Journal. Brill.
Movsaēs Xorenac‘i, Patmut‘iwn Hayoc‘, ed. M. Abełean and S. Yarut‘iwnean, Tiflis, 1913; repr., New York, 1981; Yerevan, 1991 (with additional collations of MSS by A. B. Sargsean).

[@Mariam_Kir]

❤ omg omg omg ❤ I can't believe you are taking about a Georgian myth! I've been watching your channel, loving how you trace the oldest myths and wondering how they compare to the myths of my country, Georgia. I even strated doing my own research about it, inspired by your videos. This video is like my dream come true ❤

[@strollingpoet]

It would be good to see more videos on Georgian mythology. It’s surprisingly well preserved and fascinating to no end!

[@mariovillarreal8647]

It's so good to hear how his stories inspire and how this Georgian one especially makes you feel! Thanks for sharing. Mario SirSirReal Villarreal.

[@leekestner1554]

There are also so many ties to the story of Loki. Loki starts out as a trickster hero who uses his skills for the good of the Asir. But he turns darker and darker and is eventually chained beneath the World Tree (Chthonic) with his son the wolf Fenrir, while a dragon drips caustic spit onto him (Torture). When finally released Ragnarok, the End of the World begins.

[@adyorvanderlei4767]

That's like the phone angels that are chained in darkness in a cave under the Euphrates River Egypt. A lot of tree and Egyptian mythological stories biblical story have a lot in common

[@damenwhelan3236]

​@mattconnor671 You're spot on.

[@jayabee]

There's a fair amount here about hair. Cutting off hair takes away power. How common is that? Also the braid of the Dev being used to get to the princess in the tower put me in mind of a jumbled story of Rapunzel.

[@Crecganford]

Well spotted, and I will make a video in the future about this and so I won’t give away any spoilers now.

[@shanegooding4839]

Hair today 😁 gone tomorrow 😭!

[@carpathiangirl8460]

And of course the biblical story of Samson and Delilah

[@zaco-km3su]

It reminded me of the Judeo-Christian story of Samson. Probably came from a Canaanite myth.

[@ProudMotherofaDaughter]

yes exactly!!!!

[@aanchaallllllll]

0:00: 🔗 The myth of the chained hero is a fascinating motif found in various cultures, with the Greek myth of Prometheus being one of the most well-known examples. 5:30: 🔥 Zeus punishes humans by taking away their ability to make fire, but Prometheus helps them regain it by giving them burning fennel. 11:17: 🐉 Summary: This text discusses different myths involving dragons and their punishments. 17:15: ❤ Darjelani falls in love with the goddess Dali at first sight and spends the night with her in a cave. 22:28: 👁 The sons threaten to burn their mother's chest to find out the true story of their father's missing eye. 28:12: 🗡 Amirani stabs the developer after hearing a song from the ogre's belly. 33:26: 😢 Amirani falls in love with Ketu but is faced with opposition from her father and his armies. 38:48: 🗺 The origin of the myth of Prometheus in the Caucasus region is uncertain, but it likely dates back at least 3,000 years. 44:13: 🌍 The motif of being swallowed by a creature is found in various ancient cultures, including Georgian folklore. 49:39: 🐂 The myth of Amadani involves his birth, being placed in different animal bodies, and being abandoned by a source or the sea. 55:25: 🔍 The myth of Prometheus and its similarities with other myths like Amirani and Jesus suggest a common origin in ancient narratives about the struggle between life and order. Recap by Tammy AI

[@aidengranahan3598]

Thank you for you edit ❤

[@TehRedBlur]

Early Christian creeds contemporaneous with the Apostles include a confession of the resurrection of Christ. As such, the bodily resurrection of the dead in fact predates much of the New Testament. It is one of the earliest Christian beliefs of which we have a historical record.

[@FerrariusChristi]

Isn't the resurrection of the dead in messianic times a jewish belief anyway? It's obvious that early christians believed it

[@earlwajenberg]

@@FerrariusChristi - Correct. Look around on KZbin for material by N. T. Wright. He is an expert on Judaism and Christianity in the first centuries. The idea of the resurrection of the dead at the end of time was widespread in 2st-century Judaism. What was different about Christianity was the assertion that the Messiah would be the first to be resurrected, leading the way, so to speak.

[@codywall08]

@@earlwajenberg yes and of course the inclusion of the Gentiles amongst the resurrected. But as you all state, the Scripture is clear that resurrection was always part of the Judeo-Christian worldview. 1 Corinthians 15 is one of the greatest proofs of the Christian faith with a creed that dates to possibly as early as only 15 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

[@damenwhelan3236]

​@@FerrariusChristi Yes. Literal resurrection. It's why the gospel says people rose from the dead after christ came back. It must have been so common an event to go unmentioned by anyone else though ..

[@ring9089]

I love your videos, I find myself waiting for them excitedly. Thank you for being such a great content creator.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for your kind words.

[@moonpearl4736]

You told us your name! How do you know that we are not fairies and will use it against you? :) Thanks for the story time.

[@drewtheceo9024]

🤫 starts setting a fairy circle

[@MarekMirocha]

Whats in a name?

[@gaslitworldf.melissab2897]

Good one, but he's lucky. His name is pretty common. And gods aren't necessarily meticulous. hehehe

[@mariovillarreal8647]

I believe faeries are inherently good and only got a bad rap because they give those who ill treat them, or try to, their just desserts. Or those that damage or destroy parts of Mother Nature they attack. But will actually help good hearted people. But that's just my opinion. But I also believe no man knows or is allowed to know, The True Name of God... What a beautiful picture of a Faerie Princess, Thank you! Mario

[@john-ic5pz]

@MarekMirocha what's in a name? letters 😁

[@aariley2]

It's interesting because the gnomes and dwarves myths deal with caves, underworld, cycles of the earth too. It may sound campy, but I would really like to know if, this being the haunting season, if any if the popular Halloween creatures feature into these ancient myths and how.

[@shanegooding4839]

There's a link between the Irish Halloween (Samhain) and cattle being stolen by a goddess of slaughter called the Morrigan and taken into the cave of Cruachan (Samhain was when the ancient Irish gathered cattle to be slaughtered). Cattle-raiding myths are often linked with caves and also with the sun. I don't know if this is why cave-dwelling mythical creatures like trolls and dwarves sometimes turn to stone when exposed to the sun.

[@chriselliott4621]

Great content as always, lots of depth of our ancestors and their mental framework of reality and beyond.. always appreciate your videos Mr.White.

[@hhhhhh9792]

The Biblical story that most resembles Amirani's saga is the story of Samson. At least these similarities exist between the two: the hero in question is a strongman who travels around beating up and killing huge amounts of people/creatures; cutting someone's hair causes their death; the hero has an unhappy ending, ending up getting chained to a pillar; the hero's strenght is thanks to his mother, resulting either from her own miraculous nature or from a prayer said by her.

[@writerblocks9553]

What do you think about people saying that Jesus is a unique hero figure that does not share similarities with those who came before him? I disagree with their conclusion, but I do see Jesus as the latest and greatest iteration of this same archetype.

[@ancientfiction5244]

All of the motifs associated with Jesus are found in earlier tales. ------------------------------------------------------------------ *Miracles and Apotheosis in the Ancient Mediterranean World* *"It should first be noted that miracle stories are not uncommon in the literature of this period.* Ancient people believed in a world permeated by the supernatural and readily accepted stories of miracles and believed in stories of visions and visitors from the world of the divine all the time. *Even very sober and sometimes sceptical historians like Tacitus will pass on accounts of miracles that he clearly accepts and expects his audience to believe as historical.* So when we read stories of how the emperor Augustus was *miraculously conceived by the god Apollo,* or how his birth was *presaged by a new star in the heavens,* or how Julius Caesar was seen *ascending into the heaven* after his death or how Vespasian *healed lame and blind people* who asked him for a miracle, we accept that these stories represent the kinds of things ancient people genuinely believed about great men. Or we accept that they are at least told to indicate that the man in question was great. *What we don't do is accept that simply because people believed these stories they must mean that they really happened.* And this is even when the stories are presented to us by a very careful historian and given to us as verified fact. Take Tacitus' account of the miracles of the emperor Vespasian: "In the months during which Vespasian was waiting at Alexandria for the periodical return of the summer gales and settled weather at sea, many wonders occurred which seemed to point him out as the object of the favour of heaven and of the partiality of the Gods. One of the common people of Alexandria, well known for his blindness, threw himself at the Emperor's knees, and implored him with groans to heal his infirmity. This he did by the advice of the God Serapis, whom this nation, devoted as it is to many superstitions, worships more than any other divinity. .... And so Vespasian, supposing that all things were possible to his good fortune, and that nothing was any longer past belief, with a joyful countenance, amid the intense expectation of the multitude of bystanders, accomplished what was required. *The hand was instantly restored to its use, and the light of day again shone upon the blind. Persons actually present attest both facts, even now when nothing is to be gained by falsehood."* (Histories, IV, 81) Tacitus was closely connected to the court of Vespasian's sons and successors, Titus and Domitian, and so in a position to know the "persons actually present" and to consult them long after Vespasian's death "when nothing is to be gained by falsehood". He was also a very careful historian who scorned those who took rumour and stories as fact without checking them against sources and eye witnesses and who condemned those who "catch eagerly at wild and improbable rumours in preference to genuine history" (Annals, IV,11). *Despite this, I don't know anyone who would read the account above and conclude that the emperor really had magical healing powers and genuinely used his supernatural abilities to heal people.* The fact that even a judicious and often sceptical analyst like Tacitus accepted this story shows us just how readily people in the ancient world accepted claims of the miraculous. *One form of miracle that was widely believed in was the idea of apotheosis, where a great man is physically taken up in to the heavens and raised to divine status.* It was claimed that Romulus, the founder of Rome, underwent this process and *later appeared to his friend Julius Proculus to declare his new celestial status.* The same claim was made about Julius Caesar and Augustus, *with supposed witnesses observing their ascent into the heavenly realm.* Lucian's satire The Passing of Peregrinus includes his scorn for the claim that the philosopher was *taken up into the celestial realm and was later seen walking around on earth after his death.* The Chariton novel Callirhoe has its hero Chaereas visiting the tomb of his recently dead wife, saying he *"arrived at the tomb at daybreak"* where he *"found the stones removed and the entrance open. At that he took fright."* Others are afraid to enter the tomb, but Chaereas goes in and finds his wife's *body missing* and concludes she has been *taken up by the gods."* If you want to read how the resurrection legend grew over time, read the below article by Tim O'Neill who is a former Christian and has been studying the scholarship for over 25 years. *Answer* What-evidence-is-there-for-Jesus-Christs-death-burial-and-resurrection/answer/Tim-ONeill-1 - Quora You can also read the below article by a former Christian apologist on how he agrees with the mainstream scholarship that Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet. *"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"* Also, how cognitive dissonance possibly explains early Christianity. *“The Rationalization Hypothesis: Is a Vision of Jesus Necessary for the Rise of the Resurrection Belief?”* - by Kris Komarnitsky | Κέλσος - Wordpress *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"* *"How Did The Gospel Writers Know? - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Yes, the Four Gospels Were Originally Anonymous: Part 1 - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Are Stories in the Bible Influenced by Popular Greco-Roman Literature? - The Doston Jones Blog"* *"Gospels Not Written By Matthew, Mark, Luke or John - The Church Of Truth"* *"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* - Isaiah 53 *"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"* *"Jesus did not fulfill any messianic prophecies - Reductio Ad Absalom"* *"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*

[@shanegooding4839]

Unfortunately there was widespread destruction of non-Christian literature carried out by Christians for centuries that might have shed more light upon the relationship between the Christ-story and these mythical figures simply to preserve that uniqueness.

[@fernandogarcia3957]

​@@shanegooding4839Some of what you say it's true. There was erasing of 'pagan' myths etc. But it's even more common to christianise them. Also for the fathers of church all of these myths had some form of prefiguration and 'imperfect' metaphors of the Christ character. And by the way, how do you think we have written testimonials of these myths if not by monks or church educated people, even if transformed and filtered by the beliefs at the time? It would be unwise to see it only in a narrow perspective.

[@jayabee]

I had not been aware of the trickster aspect of the Prometheus character. I had read as a child the story of prometheus bringing knowledge of fire to humans and I had thought he and Jesus had that in common as kind of a son of a God who did stuff for humans and was punished for it. Also though a parallel to the serpent bringing knowledge to people so there's your trickster I guess. And he was also punished.

[@Fuk99999]

The trickster aspect as well as the connection to fire also brings him a bit in line with Loki when you think about it. And if we also consider that the Greek gods are…often portrayed in inverse ways (every single major god is a petty bastard/bitch except for the ones associated with actual negative spheres like Hades), we can sort of mental gymnastic a connection of chaotic figures doing some good things in spite of themselves (and reminder that Loki is also eventually chained up and tortured just like Prometheus)

[@shanegooding4839]

@@Fuk99999 Yeah. Also notice how Amirani was bound to the same fetter which bound a mythical hound, while Loki has a wolf son, Fenrir, who is likewise bound until Ragnarok. If Loki is identical to Lodurr, as at least some Icelandic literature suggests, then he can also be linked with the creation of humans just as Prometheus is.

[@phileiv]

Thank you infinitely for sharing all of this. Your videos have shown me much more than words can describe. Seriously.

[@Crecganford]

And thank you so much for watching and enjoying what I do.

[@johnsteiner3417]

Amirani losing an eye to eventually see even better, and then be bounds makes me wonder if this also contributed to the story arc for Odin's quest for wisdom.

[@NarenLumpkin]

All the aforementioned tales are but shadows of the real story

[@stowlicters8362]

"huurr durrr Odin came from other cultures and peoples!"

[@johnsteiner3417]

@@stowlicters8362 Not related to the question. Incorporating stories across region was one of the major points in this video.

[@stowlicters8362]

@@johnsteiner3417 you're implication is that such stories added onto or even made other stories, again "hurrr duuuurrrrr Odin came from other cultures and traditions".

[@johnsteiner3417]

@@stowlicters8362 Okay, so you're still missing my point. I'm not saying Odin came from the Georgian culture. I'm saying the aspect of losing an eye but getting better sight for it and then being bound in some way might've been added to Odin's story and I was asking if that was possible.

[@Zumbs]

Trickster god, chained up and regularly tortured ... I can't help thinking of Loki. He also stole the hair of Sif. And Iamani giving an eye to a powerful creature, sounds a bit like Odin, even though they got two very different things out of it. (Edit: I can see that Jon already replied to similar comments, noting that he is considering a video on trickster gods.)

[@Crecganford]

Yes, I have replied to other comments, for Loki is definitely a chained hero too.

[@rina-ehre]

I found this channel by accident. I was amazed at how high quality the information was presented here. And I can recommend it even to those who do not understand English, since there are accurate subtitles in almost any language. Great treasure.

[@rina-ehre]

However, sometimes dev is translated as "developer" or "dove" in Ukrainian or Russian versions. It is funny.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for your kind words of recognition, they are appreciated.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

Those years long (or eternal) punishments were incredibly tortuous! That Jesus fellow only had a bad weekend by comparison

[@jpdalvi]

My man should start a sideproject on story telling. I bet a podcast or maybe even audio book of myths and stories on your voice would be a real success.

[@Crecganford]

Something is happening in that space next year, when I’ll have more time.

[@marybeth1078]

Another informative and entertaining discussion and sharing of Myths!!!❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@JIMA-Club]

There's a Jewish canonical story about Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai (1-2 century). It tells that when he exited the cave in which he hid from the Romans for 12 years, he burned whatever he looked at out of critical wrath. God said: "Do you intend to destroy my world? Get back into the cave!". He left the cave again after 12 months with more compassion and appreciation of man.

[@DJWESG1]

Allegorical for sure.

[@Crecganford]

I shall look that up, and see if it appears in the Mythology Database as that sounds like an interesting story.

[@shanegooding4839]

Cool story 😁!

[@stowlicters8362]

Appreciation of man? I'm sure he was just more appreciative of his fellow hebrews

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

Sounds about right lol​@@stowlicters8362

[@jakemcnamee9417]

When a Christian asks me about accepting Jesus as my lord and saviour as he sacrificed himself for my sins. I bring up the parallel between that idea and Prometheus, who suffered and sacrificed himself for humanity

[@MogMonster87]

I always thought there was more of a parallel between lucifer and Prometheus as lucifer was the light bringer just as Prometheus brought us fire and both experienced a gods wrath by rebelling.

[@CCootauco]

Well Jesus kind of brings down a sort of fire, and a burning heart is part of the Catholic canon. They are also pierced at the side, and are punished. Jesus is punished so the reward can be attained, while Prometheus was punished because the reward was attained.

[@greenheart5395]

He has parallels with both Jesus and Lucifer. Apparently there were early Christians with the name Lucifer and the story comes from some mistranslation in the bible. I am unsure about that , but most of the story I've heard about Lucifer comes from paradise lost and I haven't seen much about him in the bible

[@sigursvyatotslav7180]

Kind of a weak comparison though. Jesus specifically draws from an existing theology to justify his sacrifice while Prometheus suffering was not catalyst to humans receiving favor.

[@-ChrisD]

There's no use trying to side step reality. Jesus Christ who actually died for you and the Prometheus myth are not the same.

[@elizabethdavis1696]

I heard somewhere that Prometheus had red hair symbolizing fire and that his children and descendants also had red hair but it was only one source and I couldn’t find any other information. Do you know anymore about it?

[@Crecganford]

Red hair/fire is a stereotype of trickster gods, and so this can happen as myths evolve.

[@elizabethdavis1696]

Please consider doing a video on red hair!

[@gaz8891]

@@elizabethdavis1696 Interesting. I rather think that the red hair and giant size of these 'original gods' points us to the ancient region of Tartaria in Russia. I've read that this region had people of large size and an advanced civilisation, and over time they tried to introduce their knowledge to the surrounding societies, becoming like an elite over them. I think they were the ancient rulers of the land of Siberia, before the Moscovites took over Russia in more modern times and erased this history (old maps show settlements all over Siberia where today are just forests ... ). I met someone whose ancesters came from near the region, and they had red hair and family members who were 7 feet tall. So perhaps the red-haired giant 'gods' of the early Bronze Age myths were real. Afterall, all we are talking about is that there existed a race of people who developed advanced knowledge (fire-making, domestic fruit trees, agriculture etc.) before the rest of the world, and this disparity led to notions and legends of 'gods.' Around the world, people have found huge skeletons of red-haired 'giants' (7 or 8 feet tall), most of which were removed to the Smithsonian Museum and never heard of again. Although these discoveries have been reported endless times by the local press, they have all been officially denied by academics today ... So Jon, please research Tartaria !!

[@timothygervais9036]

Another profoundly interesting and informative video, most educational. Have a great day Jon and please continue your QUALITY work!😊

[@bjarkiengelsson]

Perfect timing, Jon! A fresh video and a cup of coffee to start the day - let's go!

[@johnsteiner3417]

"Zombie Jesus" 😁 Glad I'm not the only one who wrote an undead Jesus into a story.

[@the_lotharingian]

Jesus is not a sinner hes a scapegoat. Hes punished in the place of others. And we share in this ritual through communion

[@bjarkiengelsson]

His own father considered him a sinner.

[@NorsePagan1973]

​@@bjarkiengelssonhis father is a cosmic sadist.

[@ladyflimflam]

Barabbas was the scapegoat. Jesus was the sacrifice. "[Aaron] is to take the two goats and present them before the lord at the entrance to the tent of meeting. He is to cast lots for the two goats-one lot for the Lord and the other for the scapegoat. Aaron shall bring the goat whose lot falls to the Lord and sacrifice it for a sin offering. But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord to be used for making atonement by sending it into the wilderness as a scapegoat." (NIV, Leviticus 16:7-10)

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

Christianity is so strange

[@intranquiltiming]

The good piece of meat within an ox's stomach. Very good. The bones of a bull covered in glistening fat are also very good though! If you slow cook that with garlic and onions and they're a delicious treat. Ancient humans who wrote these myths must have not thought that way about bones though. 😂 These myths are metaphorical and beautiful.

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

Bones contain marrow. Humans have been eating such for millions of years. Delicious indeed

[@thomasbouffard1418]

My understanding is that the original christian motif for resurrection, predating the crucifixion/cross representation, was the image of Jonah emerging from the whale as can be seen in early christian art such as is found in the catacombs around Rome. I knew of this symbolic connection but never thought of how they related to these other and older myths. Thanks for such a compelling presentation as always. : )

[@DJWESG1]

It makes sense that they simply replaced one demi god for another as their world view changed.

[@shanegooding4839]

Interestingly, Jonah is swallowed after he sets sail from Joppa (now the port of Tel Aviv), while in Roman times Joppa was the place the princess Andromeda was chained as a sacrifice to a sea monster until she was rescued by Perseus. This suggests that even in those times there was some recognition that there were common motifs to be found between all these stories.

[@stevenhair3250]

Actually Jonah happened before Jesus. It was showing and said in the way for Jesus to come. They both happened

[@simonmoore8776]

@@stevenhair3250 That is what he said. It is what predating means!?

[@thebordoshow]

I thought I was the N1 scholar of Amirani and here I listen to a version with elements I've never heard before 😮 Great job in covering the myth. And good thing I still have a version to cover in the future with added elements. Every region in Georgia has its own unique version, so I could tell and retell this epic many times over. Few things to note. In most versions devi and dragons are distinct, first amirani battles devi King, then 3 gveleshapi dragons (black white and red) each brother takes on 1 and the black servant swallows Amirani. Then the serpent goes to her mother Veshap Leviathan and story goes as you told. Also in most stories Amirani can't lift the dead hero's leg, which sents him into existential crisis about mortality and that's why he battles the god. Oh yea! Very important. Most versions Amirani directly challenges God to a duel, God asks him to lift his pole, he fails so he is later chained to that pole. Dragon comes to avenge his side but "saint George" turns the dragon into stone. And that's where the Caucasus mountains come from. Well, there are tons more variations to cover, and I'm very happy you brought it the attention this myth deserved. One thing I'll disagree is that I don't think Amirani and Prometheus are that related. Son of dali is closer to Gilgamesh or Heracles to me than God of foresight (which he has none). They just share the same jail. Also I believe Amirani myth is much older, as the main background players are the Bronze age Forge Priests which Amirani swore to kill, unfortunate for me I guess. The story unfortunately haven't been written down until the 9th century a.c. but there are many art depictions we can assume are from that tale, and unlike most others, Georgian mythic world is still active and practiced in the high mountains, so it's a living faith. Also Also, Amirani being a Godson of the chief God is not just a fluke, the biggest heroic epic of Georgia are about the 3000 heavenly warriors known as Godsons, who are godchildren of Morige, chief God of order. Thanks for covering this story. Cheers!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for all your thoughts and for watching.

[@thebordoshow]

@@Crecganford thank you for a great video

[@destructionindustries1987]

Hailsa Prometheus

[@SarahTheRebelOfficial]

I love that you kept saying “heroic deeds” and I kept thinking “this guy doesn’t seem to be helping anyone” because it’s a good reminder that different cultures had different standards of heroism & what it means to be a hero

[@victor_bueno_br]

I can't help but link this "chained hero" myth with Loki from the norse mythology. Although he is not exactly a hero, he is most definitely a trickster, and was also bound down and when freed will bring about the end of the world (ragnarok).

[@BlindIo0374]

Hah, yeah I kept thinking “ what a jerk”. An interesting reminder that being a hero doesn’t necessarily mean being a decent person

[@kellydalstok8900]

What does this say about the people who came up with these stories? The same goes for the Old Testament, with a god who is the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Clearly a lot of men throughout history valued being a complete bastard more than being kind and helpful.

[@achuvadia]

I've noticed that too, Gilgamesh was the OG jerk/hero, and seems many of the Greek demigods who perform heroic deeds do so for personal gain and/or also do cruel things companions and innocents in the stories. Mebe some ancients accepted some thugish qualities in their heroes.

[@nevisysbryd7450]

The term hero in Antiquity had no connotation of ethics. It described individuals with superhuman ability in connection with a personality or drive that was totally self-absorbed in its own assertion or expression, much like gods. The affiliation with ethics comes from Abrahamic religions, with its strong emphasis on ethics, projecting back onto a term with a very different meaning than in modern parlance.

[@dannythebear743]

Thank you for these videos… so informative and interesting x

[@ellerose9164]

Great as always! Thank you for all your work and dedication

[@Crecganford]

Thank you too, for watching and your support.

[@zaco-km3su]

It's clear that there was some Christian influence in the version of the myth of Amirani. Initially he probably didn't swear in "Christ's name", but probably in the name of the gods or the local supreme god. Also, at the end the god that tied Amirani up wouldn't have been the.....Judeo-Christian god, but the local supreme god.

[@lancelanier]

The liver is the only human organ which can regrow under the right circumstances. People can donate part or half their liver and each will grow into a whole part. If any story sounds true....

[@emilywyatt9340]

Millennia of being chained and having your liver eaten and regrown. All for helping himans become civilised. Vs 6 lousy hours and a few days of pretend death.

[@janlundberg416]

Loke was chained up Odin lost an eye I have thought about Odin and his horse Sleipner do you think it can be a connection to the Scytes?

[@bostonbilly7725]

Sweet I didn't realize u was releasing this today. Sweet something really worth watching ty Jon ❤❤😊gratz I see the subscription thing 😊😊😊

[@ladyaurimetellum1795]

🦅 🏔️

[@ashu21]

Great video as always, but I gotta say the lighting setup is also beautiful!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, its the first time I’ve made a video with that set up and so I predicate someone noticing.

[@AbhiN_1289]

You made a short that says a new paper places Indo European in the south of the caucuses and older. I am not sure if this is true. I think there is a Survive the Jive’s video that shows this to not be the case.

[@Crecganford]

There is still much debate on this, certainly the PIE language seems to have had input from south of the Caucasus. But whilst there are many reasons why this could be true, there are still a few things that do not make sense if it did. I think the next few years will allow work to happen to give us confidence one way or the other.

[@MythVisionPodcast]

This is epic! ❤❤❤

[@Crecganford]

Thanks Derek!

[@kariannecrysler640]

💯

[@matthewschuh3332]

Is it possible that Loki and his narratives were influenced by the Promethian narrative, thus their apparent shared roles in the creation of man and their imprisonments?

[@Crecganford]

Indeed it is, and I will talk more about this soon.

[@nelirusieshvili7378]

In Georgia we have old god of sun and sky - Lile , this is old name of sun. Kviria - morning star. we have Ambri - goliath associated with farming , godess - Nana, mother of all gods and Barbale - fertility and motherhood. god of moon - givargi. (george) . some times, name changes, but idea is the same. Tuta - it is Moon - mtovare and month - tve.

[@samuelantunes9147]

The one thing I don't understand is: The script for the video is just prime quality, almost flawless, I couldn't be more fascinated by this channel.. But WHY do you talk like you're whispering?? It's the only thing that makes the videos hard for me to watch, I just can't stand the whispering! But maybe it's just me, idk

[@Crecganford]

Sorry, I've been quite I'll with COVID and lost my voice. This is the best I could do considering.

[@kariannecrysler640]

@@CrecganfordI’m glad you are on the mend! Take good care & my best wishes to you & yours.✌️💗🤘

[@ВладимирСоломатин-л4м]

Pharmat in nakh mythology

[@ghostdreamer7272]

Besides Loki/Odin/Samson as others mentioned, the birth also reminds me of Dionysus and his older form

[@michaelogden5958]

First, I'm not criticising or demeaning Crecganford. But, that Amirani story is the worst story I have ever heard. I'm all for a good beyond-belief, reality-bending tale, but the Amirani saga sounds like some mentally disturbed person's amalgamation of bits of every myth/fantasy/horror story he or she ever heard. The fact that the tale has been perpetuated for ages is quite amazing (to me). Overall, though, I believe the Crecganford Channel is interesting and very thought-provoking. Good job, Crec! 👍

[@gaz8891]

Thanks so much, this is great. Just thinking about the name 'Amirani.' Doesn't 'Amir' mean something like 'honourable', so this could be an honorific title. So perhaps his name is really Rani or Ani ? This reminds me of a character in Indian mythology, a goddess called Radha Rani who is known as the one who loves Krishna the best. Could this Caucasian story of Amirani somehow relate to the Indian myth/character, and the references to 'in the name of Christ' were originally referring to Krishna ??

[@andrewsroar1802]

Just replaying Immortals: Fenyx Rising, and the commentary between Prometheus and Zeus narrating is so spot on and hilarious. Like some devs really did their research for dialogue here.

[@Irakli400]

Great video. In an alternative version of Amirani he is being tied to the tree not because of breaking his word but because his godfather was not the angel but the Jesus himself and after defeating the father of khamari who was the lord of clouds he goes on the quest where he tries to defeat everyone to find out if he is the strongest man alive. He than hears of the story of another hero who might be stronger than him. As he travels to find him he finds the hero dead and the funeral in progress. The heroes boxy is being pulled by a cart to his grave and his hand has fallen out and is so heavy that it plows the land. The heroes mother asks Amirani to put her sons hand back on his chest but when Amirani tries to lift the hand of the dead hero he cant make it bulge so heavy it is. Upon seeing this the dead heroes mother mocks Amirani that he came to defeat her son but instead her son defeats Amirani even when he is dead and if he was alive he would destroy Amirani. Amirani than goes through existensial crises as he who claims to be strongest hero is defeated by a dead man so he goes to his godfather Christ and asks Christ to make him even stronger. Jesus does so but tells him that he knows that Amirani is not asking for this strength to do kind deeds but he still feels for his godchild so he grants him additional strength. After this Amirani travells world to find someone who is stronger than him but he cant find anyone so he decides to challenge Christ himself. Jesus asks him to change his mind that godchild and godson should not wresle but Amirani is keen on wrestling Jesus so Christ takes a long pole of oak wood and pushes it into the ground and tells Amirani to pull it out. Amirani does so. Than Christ takes the same stick and pushes it even deeper in to the ground and asks Amirani to pull it out again and Amirani does so again. Than Christ pushes the stick even deeper into the ground but this time Christ makes it so that roots grow out of the stick and these roots wrap around the planet earth and tells Amirani to pull it out again but this time Amirani cant do that so Jesus chains him to the same pole. Anyways great video mate!!

[@elliejobonney2926]

Jon,I almost didn't recognise you in the thumbnail with all that hair! xxx I love everything you do & could honestly listen to you reading the telephone directory 😆 🤣 😂 Google it kids.

[@gaslitworldf.melissab2897]

Just for once, I might appreciate being made of clay, b/c I never see clay statues with anything hanging or looking baggy. Lol What is wrong with the gods?

[@kariannecrysler640]

I find it strange that it’s a hunter. The Bible stories make a huge deal about the character of people who are farmers and hunters, in favor of the farmers. Could this be the counter to those tales?

[@deespaeth8180]

Maybe a story about how humans were hunter gathers, and gradually became farmers?

[@DJWESG1]

I would see it as people who constantly moved vrs people who settled in places.

[@Crecganford]

I have made videos about this, videos about the Near East Creation Myth, how it migrated to Greece, and the War of Gods, all good videos to help understand this part of myth.

[@kariannecrysler640]

@@Crecganford Thank you. I will be sure to check them out.

[@Irakli400]

Legend of Amirani is very complex in sence of symbolism. Hunter Darjelani ( or Sulkamakhi depending where in Georgia you listen to the legend) is a metaphor for humanity who in their essence are hunters who seek to hunt for their wishes and animals represent our vices that the human must kill throughout our life hence the mother of Amirani being Dali the godess of Hunt or the Hunted Animals.

[@christopherellis2663]

Արտավազդ ობსკილი Մհեր ამირანი Taliesin and Havelock the Dane are further babies in baskets stories.

[@nelirusieshvili7378]

Minotaurus mother was Pasiphae, sister of Aeetis, king of Colchis - modern west Georgia . It 's seems to have connection with bull cult .

[@divozo4424]

Also, perhaps a third similarity between Amirani and Christianity is the of denying Christ three times? Maybe that's just the Christianized version of the myth.

[@malaltherenegadegod]

Yes, as usual, it’s coming out again that the gods by any name, are all the same the world over. Not by happenstance, but design; a distracting illusion to bind the minds and souls of man.

[@deirakos]

Does Loki being chained in a cave also fit the myths you've discussed in this video?

[@Crecganford]

He does... and I'll make a video about that in the future.

[@aariley2]

So in Amirani what gods did they call on before Christ? It seems the story is much older?

[@Crecganford]

This is a real problem for us, cultures to the west of the Black Sea just didn’t write things down until Christianity came along, and this really prevents us with corrupt data on pre-Christian culture. And that is why I do what I do, to try and unravel the real myth, the origins of myth, from what we have.

[@jamesonkimbrel6415]

The way that all of these myths point ultimately to the same place is so profound that they definitely contain great truth

[@ZlatkoIgric]

Duality of purpose of these videos iz priceless. One can learn mythology/religion/'facts' and history.or one can listen a good night story.fall asleep with some mind provoking info and do some of that awake/sleep problem solving shit. Iz nice. Such a lovley chap,this Jon.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@theunknownfragment5473]

Interesting *pre* in Albanian means to cut something but is also used for betrayal, and he sure "betrayed" the gods when he stole the fire from the gods. We also have the cult of fire that has survived in our culture for centuries. I love this story since I see it as the first documented information about the existence of AI or at the very least the robots since the Eagle that punished Prometheus is robotic and we can say Pandora herself was some sort of artificial intelligence created especially hence Prometheus warns his brother. Love your content.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you for sharing that, most interesting.

[@gaz8891]

@@Crecganford I was recently researching the origin of the word 'private.' I think this explains both alternatives for 'Pro' metheus ('before' or 'thief') and the Albanian meaning of cutting too. So, from what I read, 'pri' originally meant 'in front of' and all the other meanings derive from this. 'In front of' came to mean 'in front and separate from' (like 'my suit of armour is on the ground in front of me, rather than being on me'). This came to mean 'to separate from' ie. 'to deprive' or 'to rob/thief.' (And with 'wo' for 'person', 'pri-wo' or 'private' came to mean 'separate from people/the public', giving the meaning of 'private' today.)

[@NarenLumpkin]

Dear Sir, Mr.Creaganford I am supremely impressed by your dedication and diligence, jolly good form old bean. May the blessings of the Lord be through and to all. ❤❤❤

[@alexandravladmets8206]

Wow, that was a lot! I think they forgot to transform themselves into swans, though...

[@albertknabe3713]

Loki, Revan, The Monkey King...all chained up, and tortured...I have found more consistencies in these stories than differences. Why do we continue to hold theses things out as Myth rather than History?

[@gaz8891]

I agree, these surely must be various versions of an original, true history.

[@zerotwo7319]

"Inside that pilar there is a box" dear god... "there is more" No. (this is a tf2 joke)

[@marjoe32]

3:10 okay let's get a KKC video now lol

[@coreyleavell6921]

I would rather eat liver than drink tea. I'm ok though .i have vodka.

[@C43S4R3]

The necessity for Greeks to place the hero in Caucasus region strengthens the Caucasus origin theory.

[@kec7761]

So, Zeus is an angry piece of shit in every context. Got it.

[@Jamie_Wilson]

Thanks Jon, pleasure to take in your content as always mate. You always put out such good stuff, I love your videos ❤

[@aariley2]

Dragon-killing stories, big fish catching stories...same.

[@DJWESG1]

George didn't go fishing for a dragon though, he defeated a ideology held by a group.

[@thhseeking]

Hero going into a cave to fight a dragon...Go into the cave, you must :P

[@mejecam]

There appear to be ties here to the biblical Samson story as well...

[@elizabethdavis1696]

I recently heard another KZbinr say that they think the tale of jack and the beanstalk was from the story of David and the Goliath because of similarities your opinion please

[@Crecganford]

No, it is much older.

[@leekestner1554]

It is retelling of an adventure of Odin and Loki when they visited a giant and stole his stuff.

[@c.sc.9353]

oh dear - given today's world, it seems that Dahhak has escaped

[@ulrichkristensen4087]

The myth sounds very archaic even a bit banal, could this be even older than 4000 years? Does Amirani not sound a bit like Loke?

[@Crecganford]

They do have the motif of doing things that other gods do not like, that is true.

[@liamjohnston2000]

It's curious that you didn't mention Norse myths in this video. Loki seems to have many aspects of the chained hero. He's a trickster figure who angers Odin, the Allfather, and then is punishment by being "chained" up with the entrails of his sons and tortured by having snake venom poured in his eyes. It even includes the concept of the world ending with his escape, since he's supposed to be freed during Ragnarok. I also couldn't help but notice that the map at 38:36 has one of its markers in the Nordic region. Just some thoughts I had while watching.

[@Crecganford]

If I had this video would have been 2 hours long, and so instead I will make a separate video on Trickster gods, using this video as a useful piece of background context.

[@DJWESG1]

Seems to make a little sense because early man didn't have chains, and so to be bound up in 'entrials' is a little closer to the reality of a world without metals.

[@NovaSaber]

Yeah, and any of these other "chained figures who would destroy the world if released" having common influence with Loki and/or Fenrir would seem to refute the idea of Ragnarok being post-Christianization addition to Norse myth.

[@DJWESG1]

Whats interesting is that this story chouldnt have existed b4 metal working. So any earlier story would have been bulit around ropes if it existed at all. Beit chains or nails.

[@Crecganford]

But the trapped in a cave motif rather than chained to a post, could predate metal working.

[@c.sc.9353]

One non-sequitur- how can a tale or myth originating 3000 to 4000 years ago or even more - OR - even if it was first told in Greece and moved from there to the Caucasus around 8th century BCE - there is no possible way that Amirani could have made or broken promises in the name of Christ who had not yet lived on Earth?

[@gaz8891]

As someone else pointed out, that bit must have been a later amendment, to make a pagan myth more acceptable to a Christianised audience.

[@da9l12efs1]

I was sure you were gonna say before I tell you a word from our sponsor >

[@shanegooding4839]

There is even a motif like this about Zeus, in which Typhon cuts out his sinews and puts him in a bag which he hides in a cave on Mount Cassius.

[@Crecganford]

Yes, once you start understanding the motifs they pop up everywhere.

[@Jhaldmer]

Amirani was such a jerk damn.

[@rogerferguson1606]

What I don't understand is how the Amirani myth can have been written in 6th century BCE, yet reference oaths made 'in the name of Christ'?

[@Crecganford]

It was written in the 6th century BCE, that is the Greek version if it migrated to the Caucasus. However, it was only written down in the Caucasus after Christian conversion, and the Christians wrote it down, and so corrupted the myth. It may well have been being told long before that.

[@SmellyDramaQueen]

Could you maybe do some videos about africqn mythologies before Jesus, outside of anansi the spider

[@Crecganford]

I do sometimes touch on African myths, but decent information is limited which constrains how many videos I can make.

[@matthewross8499]

You've said you don't believe,I do .

[@ptrpst]

Excellent video Jon! I love all your videos! Very thorough and incredibly interesting content

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@TheOneAndOnlyMichelleAngelique]

Very interesting! Btw, I don't know that I realized your last name was White. I'm a White from the early 1600s.

[@GizzyDillespee]

If you've been white since the early 1600s, then that can only mean you're a vampire. Which is fine... this channel sounds like "Kraken ford", which would make us squid-bait... But maybe the Krakens will be scared by the presence of vampires on the ferry, and we'll make it across unscathed?

[@DJWESG1]

You could both be from The Isle white 😅

[@jamelareyes6549]

Lol I like the rules, this is my first comment third video already loving the channel!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@colinguyan9704]

Excellent, as usual. Just one thing if Prometheus is thief any idea on what Epimetheus might be?

[@Crecganford]

A great question, and I will make a video about that in the future.

[@sig7948]

46:00 There are no acts just mark Luke Mathew John Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome go to the tomb, where the stone has been rolled away.[1] Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" go to the tomb.[2] "The women who had come with him from Galilee"[3] find the stone rolled away and the tomb empty.[4] Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb and finds the stone removed.[5] Mary Magdalene informs Peter and the beloved disciple, who go to the tomb.[6] Appearance of angels at the tomb They see, sitting inside the tomb when they enter, "a young man, dressed in a white robe," who says that "He has been raised; he is not here."[7] An angel appears who rolls back the stone and sits on it outside the tomb, telling them that "He is not here; for he has been raised, as he said."[8] Two men "in dazzling clothes" suddenly appear while they are in the tomb, saying that "He is not here, but has risen."[9] Appearance of two angels to Mary Magdalene.[10] Instruction to them to tell "his disciples and Peter" to go to Galilee where they will see Jesus.[11] Instruction to Mary to tell "his disciples" to go to Galilee to meet Jesus.[12] [Verse 8] "So they went out and fled from the tomb, for terror and amazement had seized them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid."[13] "Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them" tell the apostles what happened, but are not believed. Peter goes to the tomb, sees the linen cloths, and is "amazed."[14] [Unversed] "And all that had been commanded them they told briefly to those around Peter."[15] First appearance of Jesus Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" [16] Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene, who informs the disciples[17] [Verse 9] Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene. She tells "those who had been with him," but they don't believe her story.[18] Jesus appears to two disciples [19] Jesus appears to two disciples [20]

[@ffugooglesuxdk9792]

This is an amazing man

[@cyprianperepeczo2653]

Wow you have polish subtitles

[@Baptized_in_Fire.]

16:45 sounds like my ex wife lol

[@angeldelgado7120]

Now he tells me not to be born in a cave :/

[@Pieeater247]

Thank you for all your videos. Have you ever watched the American Movie “Beastmaster”. I would love your thoughts on this from a PIE perspective. The peaceful village in the beginning brings to mind and visions of the Cucuteni Tripilio culture. While the beastmaster would be early Corded Ware and the bad guys maybe the Maykop or late D-D Culture.

[@TheRadu21]

'The earth was unable to hold him' reminds me of a popular saying in Romania... 'Cum il mai tine pamantul? ' - how\why is the earth still holding him? , and it is usually used when describing someone despicable, of very, very low morals or that has done some big wrong...

[@unclesam1756]

Would you consider Lucifer, as he is known now, to be a chained hero? He defied god, presented humanity with a gift that had been forbidden by god, was punished by being chained in The Pit, and at some point will escape to rule the world for 1000 years before the ultimate end.

[@Crecganford]

There certainly might be some influence there, but I would need to know Lucifer's stories origins to confirm this. Perhaps one day I'll consider producing a video about this.

[@gaz8891]

Perhaps Lucifer has been ruling the world for the last 1000 years! It does seem that some corrupted god is behind the scenes acting out their unhappiness and orchestrating various perversions and a final global war to end things!

[@thomassears7396]

Shelley subtitled 'Frankenstein' "the Modern Prometheus" - a reference to the fatally flawed, and tortured, maker of man.

[@qwertyiou9]

Ooo I was close, but so was most everyone Edit: I guessed "savior cults from 300 BCE to 200 CE" and it seems like I just got the date range incorrect Edit 2: ok more than a bit off after I watched to 49:50

[@NarenLumpkin]

Your telling me the oldest decipherable words translated as; AND AFTER!!! After WHAT; The Cataclysmic apocalyptic times. That’s right they occur periodically, if the Creator gives the day-so.

[@NarenLumpkin]

No autoshmuck I wrote Say-So!