The History of the zodiac and astrology - Ophiuchus, the forgotten star sign

Astrology and the study of stars, relating them to our fate, is a belief that has been going on for thousands of years. Here I show its history, its challenges, what is wrong with it, but also what is right. And so if you want to understand the stars, then welcome to Crecganford.
Stories about the Stars
► The Seven Sisters: • Dreamtime and the Seve...
► The Cosmic Hunt: • The OLDEST story in th...
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► References
Horowitz, Wayne. 2011. Mesopotamian Cosmic Geography. Eisenbrauns
Lehoux, Daryn. 2011. Astronomy, Weather, and Calendars in the Ancient World. Cambridge University Press
Tester, Jim. 1999. A History of Western Astrology. The Boydell Press
Link to Report from the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology www.ecnp.eu/~/media/Files/con...
Chapters
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0:00 Introduction
1:35 The Story of the Constellations
2:43 Naming the Planets
6:18 Egypt and the Birth of the Zodiac
9:42 The Greeks
10:22 The Myths of the Zodiac
10:42 Aries
11:13 Taurus and Gemini
12:01 Cancer and Leo
12:51 Virgo
13:36 Libra and Scorpio
14:38 Sagittarius and Capricorn
15:51 Aquarius and Pisces
17:02 The Romans
19:46 The Silk Road and China
21:18 Chinese Mythology
21:56 How the Zodiac and Astrology Evolved
23:34 The Persian Golden Age
26:22 Astrological Controversies
29:17 Ophiuchus: A 13th Sign?
34:58 The Truth about Astrology
36:44 The Value of Astrology

[@Crecganford]

Did you want to know about Babylonian cosmology? Or any other culture?

[@stephaniecrease4287]

Yes absolutely! Also would like to know if there's any more Similarities between Native American and indo Europeans my background is very admixture I'm Irish,indigenous American, Portugal, Spain, Poland,Norway, and African and many more in between! Love your topics of migration too! ❤

[@mathewsympsun671]

Yes please to Babylon, and Sumer if there's any info from that far back!

[@stargatis]

Yes!

[@corpus001]

Yes please, Sumerian and Babylonian cosmology would be fantastic!

[@ArielRyanBautista1313]

Please cover the MUL.APIN star codex, it will give a lot of context for the Greek zodiac

[@veracyning5572]

I'm not super into the zodiac, but I always find it sad that most of us live in places where we can't see many stars. I went camping a few weeks ago, far from any city or large town, and was shocked by how many stars I could see. 🌟

[@LifeCookie]

We can't see stars because most people live near cities that create light pollution.

[@hanzquejano7112]

Rural hobo here! That is a normal sight here

[@drkpaladin777]

I thought I saw a star once, it was just a blinking light on top of a tower.

[@theomnisthour6400]

In the future, the real and fake clouds and Starlink satellite chains will be replaced by Dyson spheres that reproject what you would have seen outside when you're not getting your regularly scheduled cloud movements. A lot is possible and has already been done before by far more technologically advanced species than ours. We weren't designed to be the sharpest tools ever created, which is why so many of us are so deathly afraid of AI. Clue for these folks - God invented AI almost before he invented anything else, and for the same reason - delegating powers he didn't want to have to deal with personally. Who wants to be the almighty micromanager of an expanding multiverse that finally invented golf courses worthy of a semi-retired god that wants a little privacy once in a while?

[@kitkakitteh]

Recently (couple of years ago, I think) the power went off in Southern California, and they reported on the news that week that the number of terrified people calling 911 to report what they *thought* were incoming bombs was crazy. Turns out that they had never seen stars before. The reporters laughed, but I thought it sad.

[@Palaemon44]

I’m an Ophiucan and lifelong science nerd. Whenever anyone asked me what sign I was I would tell them Ophiucus, which invariably got me nothing but a blank stare in response. Interestingly, no one ever asked me what I was talking about or showed any curiosity about my answer. Maybe they thought I didn’t understand their question and I was telling them I was from some obscure country called Ophiuc.

[@Val.Kyrie.]

I’m also an ophiuchan 🙋🏼‍♀️

[@serpentbearer6649]

12-13-86⛎

[@n0tf0rpr0fit]

that's because Ophiuchus is a horseshit insert invented less than twenty years ago. 13 signs breaks the symbolism.

[@serpentbearer6649]

@@n0tf0rpr0fit 20 years ago they added a constellation to the ecliptic?

[@Ricca_Day]

@@n0tf0rpr0fit Nope. Wheel within a wheel.

[@cyan1616]

I'm one! December 13th. Some people call me a natural healer and I can charm animals, truth!

[@TheCosmicSpaceWitch]

BIG FAN of your work. I am a professional astrologer (with an educational background in psychology) rooted in archetypal symbology and ancient mythology (I include Ophiuchus lol) I reference your work often. truth be told I was worried going into this video that you (like many academics) were going to have far too literal of a lens to cover this topic from a perspective that gives it the respect it deserves, I was wrong - this was fabulous. will be joining your Patreon, did I hear you mention before that it grant access to a giant mythological database?

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, and yes, Patreon's get access to all the functions currently in the mythology database.

[@TheCosmicSpaceWitch]

@@Crecganford with every tier? Is it accessed within Patreon itself?

[@itsfonk]

Always a pleasure to hear you unwind the knotted threads of our ancient notions on place and purpose. Thanks again, Jon. All the best 🤙

[@nesxya]

I love to study myths and astrology. Ophiuchus was recognized in both tropical and sidereal systems. It is tied into the Scorpio's story and bridges to Sagittarius. It brings different layers to those zodiac signs. As in regards to placement in the 12 houses it's considered to be part of Scorpio 8th house: Death and Transformation. It could be considered a hidden zodiac in relationship with the 12 tribes of Israel because Levi is a hidden tribe, the priest class. If it becomes designated as its own zodiac and house it will become the 9th and the wheel will shift, Pisces will go from the 12th spot to the 13th. One thing I dont like is modern astrologers don't know their astronomy. They use computers that dont take the wobble into account and their charts are all wrong. Historically you needed astronomy and you looked through a telescope. So now they say its symbolism. Nope, people are lazy and dont want to study astronomy and learn to hand plot natal charts or readings like they did in the past. One day I want to be able to correctly plot natal charts using a telescope 🔭 after Im done with all my biology classes. Love your videos. Thank you. Im a sun pisces, lunar capricorn, rising leo and north node sagittarius born in the year of the wood rabbit. My three pillars are all rabbits. My hidden fourth pillar will stay hidden. As for the Vedic system, I shift into Aquarius but Im a Pisces hands down. 🐟☺️🐟

[@TheOneAndOnlyMichelleAngelique]

My sign is really being talked about a lot more than I anticipated.

[@MarcusCactus]

There is a longtime misunderstanding there. Astrology is about the movement of planets (+sun & moon) along their apparent (i.e. geocentric) path in the sky. This path (the zodiac) has been arbitrarily divided in twelve equal 30° parts, called the signs. This division is based on the seasons, that is on equinoxes and solstices, on the orbit of earth around the sun with respect to its inclination. Not on the stars in the background. Since Antiquity we know that this path is not constant, and Kepler/Newton have showed why. SOME constellations (12) have been named for these signs. For example, people born in deep summer having the traits of lions, the sign got the name of Lion and afterwards the group of stars got that name. The rest of star clusters have been named later, by the Greeks, for mythological figures in the greek pantheon: Andromeda, Pegasus, Cassiopea, Procyon, Orion... and Ophiuchus. These are NOT zodiacal constellations! ( Probably the Chaldeans didn't need to name star clusters for themselves.) Anyway, the idea of a constellation is totally arbitrary, no law exists to attribute a star to this or that cluster. It is only very recently (end of XIXth c.) that a precise pattern of cutting the celestial sphere in zones has been designed, keeping the old name constellations for these zones. Among which Ophiuchus has been extended into the Zodiac and other "sign" constellations have spilled over. So, neither the signs, nor the personalities associated, are derived from constellations. It is the other way around: those 12 constellation names are derived from the signs they were in, during those ancient times. Today, there is discrepancy between signs (seasons) and constellations (sky) because of the equinoxial precession since those times. For example, the vernal equinox is on 0°Aries in Signs, but somewhere in Aquarius in Sky. Who cares? Astrology is about seasons and personality, not about astronomy.

[@Crecganford]

I do explain in the video that some believe that astrology is focused on the equatorial zodiac, and so focused on the seasons. But I am not explaining how equatorial zodiac based astrology works, I am explaining how astrology began and evolved.

[@MarcusCactus]

@@Crecganford You mean 'astronomy' in the lest sentence?

[@ohshesmiles]

@@MarcusCactus astrology is different from astronomy. At least that’s how I’ve understood it. Astrology is where the zodiac takes prominence. Astronomy is the scientific study of celestial bodies. I believe the video is about the evolution and cultural impact of astrology. Crecganford is right when he states he’s discussing astrology and not astronomy.

[@nicholas1173]

A vid on mesopotamian cosmology would be very cool indeed

[@Crecganford]

It's on my To Do list

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

there is one history professor reading their clay tablets on yt

[@recursr1892]

Absolutely Awesome! Had investigated this topic myself, but how you connected the cultural adaption across the timeline- awesome!

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for your support, it is very much appreciated.

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Chinese and Vedic astrology is so complicated. Chinese - not only the year, but the hour and minute when you were born. I'm a metal Ox, but have almost no Yang in my chart. Vedic I'm a Libra, because they work off the moon (Western Scorpio). Fascinating stuff. Thanks for this rabbit hole dive into astrology.

[@Ricca_Day]

Hey, brother! Metal Ox… Pisces in the western system. Don’t know much about the Chinese system.. yet, but I’m working on it.

[@grandymommy4531]

Good one! I love how you don't seem to believe in anything but know all about everything!

[@user-hq9yl1gc2q]

Good Lessons in Astrology! Since Human Time! Thanks!🙂🙂🙂

[@recursr1892]

As mentioned, absolutely awesome, love it! Some sidenotes: I would have preferred the myth from the older sumerian over the greeks- a.e the capricornus makes absolute no sense even in the greek mythology- in sumerian, fish and ram are attributed to enlil, and hybrid beeings where more common- still an odd thing, but still better fitting the cultural context than in greek myth. I actually still search for better explanations. May be two even older mythical beiings had been fusioned here ? Then I had an complete "Heureka!" moment when you explained why the early christians didn't like astrology even if their own origin is full of it- it's all about the free will concept, absolute brilliant how you hit the nail on the head! I feel, stars&myth are probably an very old concept in human history and Göpekli Tepe might tell us even older variants of astrology. A myth is such a powerful way of memorizing an otherwise abstract "constellation", but constellations are so useful for all ancient travellers, seafarers..it has to be much older than 5000BCE, just we have no writings of this times. Will dig also into polynesian constellations, I guess seafaring cultures probably have a broader and deeper connection to constellations.

[@recursr1892]

Correction: Enki, not Enlil, sorry.

[@MidwestManMountain]

The enunciation of Cosmic Hunt right at the start was perfect. I had a big LOL flashback to that video from last year. Great content, as always!

[@aariley2]

Dude, your library is looking so nice these days!!!! You can never have too many books, I say!!!❤

[@Crecganford]

Thank you, it is my happy place.

[@geoffreycanie4609]

Excellent work as always! This has probably been mentioned before, but I'd love to see your take on the mythological theories of Robert Graves.

[@Crecganford]

I’ll add that to my list of videos to make.

[@ron1313]

Great video! Have you covered the history of Magic & Prohibitions? Seems in middle-ages many where practicing magic, so much it hand to be banned at the University of Paris in 1398...... "In 1398, the University of Paris issued a condemnation of magic, known as the "Condemnation of Magic" or "Condemnations of 1398." The University of Paris was one of the most prestigious educational institutions of the time During that period, there was a growing concern among religious and academic circles about the practice of magic and occult arts. The Condemnation of Magic was a response to these concerns and sought to regulate and suppress the use of magical practices. The document specifically targeted a wide range of magical activities, including divination, astrology, alchemy, necromancy, and other forms of occult practices. It condemned those who engaged in such activities, considering them heretical and in violation of Christian teachings."

[@timothygervais9036]

Another stellar lesson Jon. Very informative, interesting and captivating as always. Keep up the great work and have a great weekend. Look forward to your next lesson as always. 😊

[@sandieem1]

Thank you 🌸

[@greenthumb8266]

Great work, thank you, I so look forward to your videos! Take good care!

[@yvonnewalker3910]

Thank you so much for this video. After seeing the 13th constellation, I wanted to know more. 10 Years ago after taking an Astronomy class, the book gave the 13. Why does this matter to me? I just love the truth. Getting readings is nonsense and especially when they go by the signs that are mostly different.

[@gmg325]

Cheers great work! i like your style of show and delivery.

[@Crecganford]

Much appreciated!

[@dannythebear743]

Love your videos… thanks for what you do

[@rayb4faybrown975]

Great video and excellent work!

[@brandonscott1945]

The underlying problem here is basically one of misnomers, not science. The Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn were misnamed for the constellations that lied behind them at the time, but that doesn’t mean the Tropics are unscientific. “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet”, and the Sun reaching a Tropic makes a solstice, regardless of what you call it. In this same thread, the “Signs” were not based on the constellations, which vary wildly in size. The Signs are 12 30° segments of the ecliptic because there are two Solstices, and two equinoxes (4) and between each of these Cardinal points the Moon goes around 3 full times (4x3=12). This makes 12 equal sections, of which the pie-slices were *named* after constellations seen behind them at the time, but the constellations are not their origin or the rationale behind their interpretive functions. Understanding this, no, the Zodiac was not broken by leaving out Ophiuchus. It gets broken by including it. Still love the video, one of my favorite YT channels of all time!

[@elliejobonney2926]

I love learning with you xxx thanks Jon.

[@damonr-fk5rp]

Oh hey, I just noticed your KZbin bling sitting on the shelf behind you. Good job, glad I could be a part of that. Keep up with the fantastic mythological content.

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@annakwiatkowska8882]

Astrology, myths, ancient belives are fascinating. I am enjoying listening to you. 😊

[@sarahkuczynski13]

WOW insta-subscriber!🙏🏼🤯 & This is my second time watching this EPIC vid!👏🏽👏🏼

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@Bjorn_Algiz]

Ah yippee I was always thinking about this in my practice. 😊 I'm intrigued and curious altogether.

[@blakewinter1657]

It seems only natural to think the stars could control things. Because we see how changing stars correlates with changing seasons, and it's easy to wrongly infer causation, especially as wise people begin to be able to predict seasons using the stars. But if the stars can control the weather, then perhaps they can control other things, as well. I strongly suspect that a lot of 'magical thinking' is merely misplaced inferences of causation, usually by mistaking some things that seem connected in our minds as some things with real causal connections between them.

[@alexandertiberius1098]

I totally agree, after all, these stories were our attempts at explaining what was happening around us. I think the common myth of the storm god versus the serpent is another example of this: The serpent, representing a river, bursts forth and only stops after a large, booming battle with a deity up in the clouds.

[@DJWESG1]

As soon as a person sees how the moon can control the sea, I imagine it would lead to all sorts of forces , social and physical becoming more and more in the power of the heavens

[@raulpetrascu2696]

Like how babies born in March and April are more likely to become CEOs due to being a bit older and more mature than their peers in the same class year at school, and maybe that's how Aries people are said to supposedly be confident, good leaders, competitive etc according to astrology. Idk if this particular example was true back then but yk something like that, rather than the zodiac causing the attributes

[@KedgeDragon]

Another thought is that personalities are determined by many things, one, the season one is born in. And within that there are variations based on other things that do occur. Just like the moon can tell you when to start counting, if sun is in the constellation Leo, folks born then will be 'Leos' what ever distinctions can exist among those born in the height of Summer.

[@richardbaxter9110]

I'm glad I subscribed to your channel. I've always been curious about the origins of everything because I wonder what inspiration caused these discoveries

[@bellatrixorion2497]

Very, very well done- thank you 🙏x

[@chantlive24]

Thanks

[@Crecganford]

Thank you so much for your support, it really is appreciated.

[@fuvca92]

I came around your channel last year and have already drank so much cups of amazing tea while watching your videos)) I've always been a big fan of mythology but also watching you to expand my english vocabulary. Thank you

[@Crowhag]

Very insightful, as always! Thank you for this. ✨

[@Crecganford]

Thank you! Your kind words are forever appreciated.

[@gladysayala6902]

Lovely video very informative, speaking from a former Hellenistic astrology student. You’ve tied the story very nicely and in such a concise way. Thank you 😊

[@feralbluee]

32:57 “and with that one decision (12 signs/months), the Zodiac broke - on the proviso that you thought it was working in the first place.” 😋 🌷🌱 your conclusion is quite interesting. and, just from my own experience, i was born in mid September - Fall is my very favorite time of year and i actually feel more comfortable in the Fall : cool air, the colors, the weather, celebration of the harvest, a p p l e s and cider. . . i really learned quite a lot, too. so thanks much - and you stay safe, also. :) 🌷🌱

[@Egilhelmson]

If you were born in mid-September, you were born in the tail end of Summer, not the Fall, and your entire theory is meaningless.

[@foofighter5509]

Sigh, well done overall, kind of dropped the ball when talking about Ophiuchus and sidereal vs. tropical systems.

[@stargatis]

Oooo I haven’t listened yet but I’m excited to!

[@shannonharder5049]

"If that's not astrology, I'll quit drinking tea" now that's an endorsement 😂 27:45

[@davydacounsellor]

A lot of stone circles in ireland have 13 stones in their circles. Thirteen astrological signs.

[@richarddegener]

Wildly inspiring as always,no one ever told me this. Thanks you very much, Sir.

[@jeffgrove1389]

I’d like a more exhaustive look at the Chinese Encabulation of lunar solar calendar synthesis into the yearly animal designations.

[@sannesteers]

A question I have had for ages already, and maybe you know the answer: in the far past they looked at the stars and visualised lines between some of them. That's something I can follow. But then. From those lines they made phantasies about animals and persons. How did they 'see' a complete animal from just two or three lines? I cannot see it. How is it possible that in different cultures they combined the same stars into the same lines and visualised those lines into the same animals?? Or did they tell the lines and the stories to each other?

[@Crecganford]

That's a great question, and perhaps the best way to explain it is with a story, and that is why I recommend everyone to watch the Cosmic Hunt video, as it explains this. It really is a fascinating story touching on all your questions.

[@lbr88x30]

Due to light pollution, in many places in the world the stars are not visible in the night sky. For example, the milky way is not visible in the night sky where I live. I can only see a few of the stars in the constellations.

[@KipIngram]

You most likely can't see the stars the way they could. Skies were dark everywhere on the planet back then. You could see thousands and thousands of stars. These days unless you live far out in the boonies you can't see nearly so many stars - city lights "drown them out.". So there was a lot more for them to base their pictures on than you have access to today. I lament this - I think it's awful we'e hidden the sky from ourselves. Anyway, that's the main problem, but even with all those stars they were of course using a liberal amount of information.

[@S.J.L]

*"The stars incline but do not compel."

[@RealUvane]

Great stuff!

[@MrBlazingup420]

The Song of Kumarbi or Kingship in Heaven is the title given to a Hittite version of the Hurrian Kumarbi myth, dating to the 14th or 13th century BC. It is preserved in three tablets, but only a small fraction of the text is legible. The song relates that Alalu was overthrown by Anu who was in turn overthrown by Kumarbi. When Anu tried to escape, Kumarbi bit off his genitals and spat out three new gods. In the text Anu tells his son that he is now pregnant with the Teshub, Tigris, and Tašmišu. Upon hearing this Kumarbi spit the semen upon the ground and it became impregnated with two children. Kumarbi is cut open to deliver Tešub. Together, Anu and Teshub depose Kumarbi. The Taurus Mountains are a mountain complex in southern Turkey, dividing the Mediterranean coastal region of southern Turkey from the central Anatolian Plateau. The bull was commonly the symbol and depiction of ancient Near Eastern storm gods, hence Taurus the bull, etc., and hence the name of the mountains. The mountains are a place of many ancient storm-god temples (Alberto Ravinell and Whitney Green, The Storm-god in the Ancient Near East, p. 126). These mountains were deemed by the ancient Syrians to be the work of the storm-god Adad to make the Tigris and Euphrates rivers rise and flood and thereby fertilise their land (H.W.F. Saggs, The greatness that was Babylon: a survey of the ancient civilization of the Tigris-Euphrates Valley, Sidgwick & Jackson, 2nd Revised edition, 1988, p. 380). The city of Kummanni persisted into the Early Iron Age, and appears as Kumme in Assyrian records. It was located on the edge of Assyrian influence in the far northeastern corner of Mesopotamia, separating Assyria from Urartu and the highlands of southeastern Anatolia. Kummanni was the major cult center of the Hurrian chief deity, the mighty weather god Tešup. Its Hurrian name Kummeni simply translates as “The Shrine.” Kumme was still considered a holy city in Assyrian times, both in Assyria and in Urartu. Adad-nirari II, after re-conquering the city, made sacrifices to “Adad of Kumme.” The three chief deities in the Urartian pantheon were “the god of Ardini, the god of Kumenu, and the god of Tushpa.” The green cylinder seal of Adad, shows him rising up between two mountains, Taurus would be one mountain. In astrology, Taurus is the Throat, in the story, Kumarbi bit off Anu's genitals, the Orion Nebula, Teshub, the Bull Slayer is the star at the tip of Orion's Sword, Hatysa, the Sanskrit word Gohatya means "Cow Killer". When you place Teshub/Hatysa on the Western horizon (Gaia), the side that the sun sits on, Alula (Alalu) is at mid-heaven, it means "First Born". With Zeus, he gave birth through is Thigh, which is the location of Hatysa on Orion. On the day of the Summer Solstice, you find the sun at the tip of Orion's Club, which is his cut oof penis. The Winter Solstice sun is found on the Thigh zodiac, Sagittarius, next to a little blood red spot called Spiculum, meaning Spear, the 7 main stars of Ophiuchus form the other mountain, they form the shape of a cave door, but it is the belly of the heavenly goddess, Scorpio is the sexual organ, between sexual organ and the hips and thighs, Sagittarius, is the hidden13th zodiac, the womb of the goddess, Ophiuchus, that grows as big as a mountain. The star alignment with Hatysa on the horizon and Alula at mid-heaven happens in December and 9 months later in September, a Virgo, in between The Golden Gate of the Gods, Sagittarius, and the Silver Gate of Man, between Gemini and Taurus, where you find the Club of Orion marks the center, December alignment, just before dawn, September's alignment is 7 hours later, 12:00 noon. It takes Alula 7 hours to fall from mid-heaven to the horizon, replaced by the She Goat, the mother of Damu "the Child", the dying and rising god of healing, the She Goat is Vega, associated with goddess Bau, the first doctor. Spiculum, the little bloody red spot, is a tool used by doctors, the speculum is placed into the woman, to look where babies come from. the total time between both alignments is 6,606 hours, hey is that 666, the number of man and the beast.

[@Ricca_Day]

This was a very interesting commentary. I believe the Celestial Template holds the vast majority of our ancestors beliefs, if we are able to make the connections. The cave art goes tens or even hundreds of tens of thousands of years of evidence that our ancestors’ ancestors were using them to tell stories and observing similar influences. The only remaining question is whether or not we have enough evidence to understand them ourselves.

[@MrBlazingup420]

​@@Ricca_Day How have you been Ricca Day, I haven't chatted with you in a long time, not since Andy Christie started acting like a cry baby and blocked me, Tell him, Roger said to fill his Cupps with his cry baby tears, but he might block you if you do. Thank you for your comment.

[@3rdeye671]

In Lascaux cave in western France there is a cave art depiction of a large Bull on the wall. A closer look shows the Bull has seven dots around its eye. This is not a physical biological Bull it is the Taurus constellation. The Bull clearly has seven dots around its eye. This clearly is the Taurus constellation as no Bull has anything similar in reality. I think the cave art is around 30,000 years old. It is attributed to the Cro-Magnon. So even that far back the constellation is associated with the Bull. A full zodiacal precession takes around 25,772 years and to confirm that the observed constellations are actually repeating the circle again an observer would need to follow another full precession for another 25,772 years. Thats a total of 51,544 years to fully observe and confirm the observation is accurate. Plus the painting date of aprox. 30,000 years means we could be looking at a symbolic depiction that shows Taurus was associated and known as a Bull since possibly 80,000 years ago. Thats assuming that further precessions were not required to associate each constellation with an appropriate animal or similar known item, like the Libra scales. This points to an ancient understanding of the Zodiacal constellations and the appropriate symbol to give the constellation a meaning to what its influence upon us is about, a symbol to show what characteristics it directly governs and exerts its subtle influence upon us. This puts the knowledge of the precession and zodiac constellations as clearly in the Neandertal heartland. And long before the Cro-Magnons even appeared in the region. It seems that the knowledge may have been passed onto the Cro-Magnon population by the long time residents of the region, the Neandertals. The painting on the wall also lines up with the actual real constellation in the sky directly behind the cave at the time it was painted i think (dont quote that) This appears to be a painting used as an educational device to keep the knowledge going and passed on to the new species and then into our culture.

[@Debiruman1666]

None of what you claim is backed by any evidence, and most of it is pretty unlikely... first things first, stars move in the sky, their position change, it's pretty unlikely that a constellation by the time of Lascaux paintings still remain identical today... Yeah, some bull has some dots around his eye, maybe seven... but maybe the depicted bull had some dots around his eyes... seems like a false-positive/confirmation bias to me, moreso considering the fact that there is another bull just facing THAT bull on the very same picture, which has many more dots on his face, why considering one bull and not the other one ? Because it fits the narrative we want... In fact, that "theory" seems to come from a french "ethno-astronomer" (is this even a thing ?), Chantal Jègues-Wolkiewiez, which is pretty much the only person working on it, publishinbg books and documentaries, but pretty much no actual scientific articles in any serious scientific peer-reviewed publication. That site in Lascaux is called "la salle des taureaux" (the hall of bulls), you can google it for a complete picture, and it won't take more than few seconds to figure this has nothing to do with astrology.

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

what would they use it for if they didn't farm anything then lol they domesticated some animals and needed to traverse Africa with them and that's only reason i can come up with

[@3rdeye671]

@@szymonbaranowski8184 a zodiac age for each constellation lasts aprox. 2,100 years. We are currently at the end of Pisces and moving into Aquarius. Plants dont take 2,000 years to grow and harvest. The Giza Pyramids align with the Orion constellation as well as the Cygnus constellation. Each year the Orion constellation indicates the Flooding of the Nile is to begin. Gobekli Tepe in Turkey follows the Cygnus constellation. Its why the enclosures are buried and a new enclosure is made. This is because the constellation moves over time. The Pillars at Gobekli Tepe indicate a comet came from that direction and caused a global catastrophe, and the Younger Dryas ice age period. This is before farming is taken up. The Boabab Tree is only found in Africa, Madagascar and Northern Australia. It came to Australia 72,000 years ago. This is when the Mt Toba super volcano erupted. There is no trace of this Tree anywhere else, so it appears that it was brought to Australia by human hands. The implications are that it was carried across the Indian Ocean by boat. It also suggests that knowledge of agriculture (plant a seed, it will grow) was already well known. You can plant seeds of any food type and just maintain it each year you return to the area. Its not intensive farming but tending a garden called horticulture. The people prior to farming had a lot of time on their hands and the stars in the sky at night are very distinct. Many stories get related to star movements and related human events. One of the oldest is the story of the seven sisters or the Plaedes constellation and the hunter or Orion constellation chasing them. These have nothing to do specifically with farming or telling of seasons but more to do with associated major events and at Gobekli Tepe the 'Watchers' were concerned that another cataclysm could arise from a comet from the direction of the Cygnus constellation. You need to broaden your understanding of what the constellations and the zodiac precession are used as: A calender and indicator of events that all people can relate to. Not exclusively intensive cereal grain farming.

[@3glitch9]

Yea so much of the cave art IS constellation and cosmological event related. They took the effects seriously knowing the heavens directly affected their endeavors. "The Stellar Rays", as Al Kindi (900s AD) called them, is the same type of subtle energies referred to in radiesthesia, divination/dowsing and biogeometry.... basically the innate magnetoreception capabilities we have that we are for the most part desensitized to. But it's there. We are literally cymatics! First time a critic uses dowsing rods to find water and feels for themselves how the energy move the rods itself, they are Sold! And become diehard interested. Problem is most critics are so critical they shun even giving it a chance. It's a trip how much effort went into the making of ancient compasses. Subtle energies, their affects upon shapes in the physical world, and studying to know how to work them in your favor was the way of the ancient world.

[@3rdeye671]

@@szymonbaranowski8184 the night sky is ancient peoples TV screen.

[@MLove-ci3cc]

Very interesting, I'm half way through and still nothing about Ophiuchus....

[@harryhocus7367]

Please turn the sound up!!

[@RanchBlessingsz]

Sorry, sounds like a good video to sleep to until the ad comes on blasting because the volume is up due to whispering

[@raycar1165]

Just found your channel. Great job. Much ❤ Love 🌎🌍🌏⚡️☯️

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@JM-The_Curious]

Hi Jon. On one of your earlier vids it says to look you up on FB, but I can't find a Crecganford page there, only your Jon F White page. Can you tell me if I'm missing something please. Can't get enough of your subjects--thanks!

[@Crecganford]

I don't really use Facebook, I tend to post only here now, and on Patreon. But this may change next year, but right now I just don't have the time to do more on social media.

[@lyndaanneshop]

So well done. Thank you.

[@Crecganford]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@ernestschroeder9762]

Always

[@Tomffoolery]

These stories and traditions are awsome! Literally lol

[@juliam248]

Thank you! What a fun video. I feel like the... hmmm... prescience? of astrology are due to the strength of the person's belief in them. Kind of a self- fulfilling prophesy. Also, wouldn't the extremely ancient stories of the Pleadies hint that observation of the heavens, and possibly some sort of proto astrology, may be even older than the Babylonians?

[@Judy007-ed6mk]

Me think the zadoic move like planets too than must now the star sign balance stand of the Capricorn sign. And all pushed behind. Its like by a watch wich show the time its move like star signs too

[@hansspadvii]

Thank you so much.

[@angelaarsenault]

This was great!! I too do not believe that anything can predict the future. That being said, there are archetypal themes in the 12 zodiac signs, the different aspects between the planets and what they signify and by keeping those "life lessons" constantly in the forefront of our minds, it helps us be more intentional about life, rather than living in a haphazard way without personal growth.

[@Foxman_Noir]

Thanks for the link to the report from the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology.

[@davidfrisken1617]

Where do you get these crazy ages from?

[@Crecganford]

References are in the video's description.

[@reddannywambalam]

Do you have a suggestion for a popular book with a collection of these origin myth? I like reading these like campfire stories to my kids. I especially like the one about the world diver. If there isn’t one, do you plan on writing one?

[@Crecganford]

Yes, I am in the process of writing four different books, and a couple of them will suit your need. However, you’ll have to wait another year or so before they start to come out. Until then, there really isn’t something out that covers this in a story-telling kind of way.

[@jorgeingediaz]

Voy a escribir en español ya que mi English is very Bad. Las constelaciones sirvieron para identificar las regiones del cielo que recorre el sol en su ciclo anual, los signos no son las constelaciones. El horóscopo es un calendario por eso es regular (30° por signo). Además la astrología no se basa en una relación de causa y efecto pese a que en el modo de hablar se diga que un planeta influencia de tal o cuál manera. El principio que rige a la astrología, que vincula lo que pasa en el cielo con las vidas de las personas es el principio hermético de correpondencia, como es arriba es abajo. Por otro lado es un conocimiento simbólico y no científico, en ese sentido está en un lugar intermedio entre ciencia y arte.

[@daenerystargaryen6609]

just wanted to say i LOVE that you provide proper subtitles! much appreciated

[@Crecganford]

You’re very welcome.

[@erinaltstadt4234]

Thank you, I would love to learn more about Castor and Pollux

[@entropytango5348]

All good Jon, but you should use the word astronomical more than astrological. Most of the time they observed something so its astronomical. I know the 2 were blurred until a few hundred years ago in Europe. The predictive stuff comes afterwards. Its no mystery how these things were seen if you spend years under the stars. One sort of correction (and you alluded to it) is that the constellation of Libra was a 17th century addition and no part of Ptolemy's list. Zuben-Al-Genubi or 'Claw of the Scorpion' is Alpha Libris or the brightest star in Libra. And of course the whole sky wobbles/rotates every 26,000 years to add discrepancies and tilts. Great presentation as always.

[@jacquesdespadas]

Very interesting to hear the evolution of astrology-thank you. It seems we are continuing that evolution with our modern concept of generational differences: Boomers, Xers, Millennials, etc. Admittedly not based on the stars, but like the Chinese zodiac’s main premise, based on when you were born, which in turn determines what world event(s) shape your understanding of the human condition.

[@DJWESG1]

Thats all political , designed to cause social conflict between generations and reproduce class antagonisms.

[@lynnmitchell5789]

Thank you. I 😘 be this

[@kadran3263]

Thank-you for your video, Crecganford. The mechanics of Astrology flourished due to the knowledge that the Sun is the centre of the solar system: the Earth is placed in the centre of the natal chart. I have a degree in psychology and have studied Astrology since I was a teenager and I've not come across any particular conflict between these two systems. The biggest difference is that Astrology is much faster at indicating times and natures of critical experiences. Finding new planets resulted in discussions of their meanings and applications but even the moons of the outer planets and asteroids have been associated with mundane phenomena, now. There was never a 'crisis' when Uranus, Neptune or Pluto were discovered. The planets were associated with the times in which they were discovered and astrological theorists determined their most suitable integration, a process of democratic discussion and observation conducted over decades, and based on observation. In the 1980s, the 13th sign debate was about Arachnid. Seems to be a pop culture phenomenon to attract attention to and to cast doubt on the reliability of Astrology. Please beware of any 'debate' as a debate is never about the truth, but about whose argument is most persuasive. Astrology functions on observation, not opinion. Basics: 360 divided by 12. There will never be a 13h sign. I strongly recommend reading some useful texts and applying theory to reality before offering opinion on fundamental changes to an ancient system. Dane Rhudhyar, Martin Shulman, AT Mann and Robert Pelletier are good starting points. There are many people who view Astrology with disdain but very few who've bothered to investigate one of our most thoroughly developed systems of mythology. As you've noted, this system has continuity spanning millennia and a variety of cultures, languages, and technologies, and it is still functioning beautifully!. I hope you get to know your natal chart.

[@pendragon2012]

Fascinating stuff. I'd love to hear more about Egypt's cosmology.

[@daliborbobr6331]

there are zodiac signs at Goebekli Tepe that were used to encode the date of the comet impact

[@kristjiannne]

Woah! That’s awesome I will check into it, so intriguing!

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

not there aren't any

[@recursr1892]

Debate is going on, undecided for now. It could be.

[@jamiegallier2106]

Such a great storyteller. Another delightful presentation, as informative and educational as it was entertaining. I appreciate your time and efforts producing such quality on a regular basis. The world needs more scholars like you. ❤

[@roselyncastaneda-qi5rx]

My birth month is June 22 so what is my real zodiac sign if there is 13 zodiac sign!?answer my question please?

[@MommaLousKitchen]

It'd be my sign.

[@Artist369phd]

8 commercials for excellent content

[@Crecganford]

I’m sorry about, KZbin decides what ads to play and I’m not sure how best to control it.

[@thegreatermysteries4134]

Great video, thanks for sharing it. But it does seem a little bit strange for a 40min. video on the 'History of the zodiac and astrology' to have no mention, however brief of Vedic astrology....🤔

[@Crecganford]

The Vedic will be talked about in its own video in the future.

[@YourBestHopesWellnessCoach]

As a practicing constellational 13 sign astrologer - I appreciate this compilation. Thanks!

[@michaelmallal9101]

What about Sigmund Freud?

[@trisld]

Fascinating as always, thank you. I would enjoy more about these ancient cultures. As we 'evolve' we'd best not ignore the ancient wisdom. I have a feeling that we'd miss too much of intuitive value if we focus too much on the 'measurable'. As for astrology, I don't have a set opinion, but simply find it interesting. (ps, leave it to me to be Ophiuchus .... figures)

[@DJWESG1]

It's our intuitive nature to make measurements and count 'things'.

[@penneyburgess5431]

Thank you.

[@daniellewis3750]

Acupuncture, like astrology, doesn't hold up to scientific examination, but people live by it. They both have their roots in the stone age. I know its not your normal cup o' tea, but you mighr want to do a program about that.

[@annabethjadisdoulton4554]

Nana. Do you mean Gran?

[@top5in512]

🔮

[@karenritter2574]

I'd love to learn more about various zodiacs from different cultures. I'm a libra/scorpio, wood tiger. My partner is a cancer wood tiger. Kids are Virgo dog, capricorn dragon/rabbit, and Virgo rooster.

[@kellydalstok8900]

No matter the culture developing the zodiac, it’s all bollocks.

[@DJWESG1]

​@@kellydalstok8900 either way, it's still interesting to know how people reproduced society and how they interpreted the world around them

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

​@@kellydalstok8900like majority of things you learn at school 😂

[@MadMadMandy]

How are golden ages defined? Like, what's the minimum 'requirement' for a period of time to be defined as 'especially good', how did it start and has it changed over time? Who defined the first golden age? (I'll take a wild guess with the greeks because they got something with calling stuff golden). Is it aspirational goals for a people and are they self-defined? Sorry, English is not my first language, but the 'golden age' thing seems so loosely defined from someone like me who's more a "I like listening to stories" person. And your storytelling is great so thanks for the video 😊 Edit: Also I now realize that these question might have a pretty big definition behind it and is not easily answered, but when I try to find out what a golden age is, I get things about aliens, planets, civ 5 and very recent history. I don't get like a strict (or even semi-strict) definition or a 'loosely approximated growth for different variables' for it to classify. Maybe my google-fu is just bad and maybe I ask too many questions at once, so a resource or a nod in the right direction for at least an attempt at a definition would be cool ✌

[@Crecganford]

A golden age is a period where the civilization grows far more quickly than it has done, but then it returns to the original growth after. Like a boom period. I'm not sure there is a scientific definition of what an age should specifically look like though.

[@Crowhag]

The Golden Age is different to each culture and it has become a pseudo-historical concept in modern discourse. But to put it simply, it is a mythical time or "once upon a time" when everything was utopic. Through rituals, such as New Years celebrations for example, the traditional man returns to the Golden Age for a limited time. I highly recommend reading The Myth of the Eternal Return by Eliade to better understand this.

[@Crecganford]

Yes, sorry my response was considering more recent economic/technological phases of a civilization's development. I must agree with @Crowhag for the mythological version, which I would say simply as the time before mortals, or the time immortals were on the earth, and would whole heartedly agree that the book "The Myth of the Eternal Return" is a must have for any mythologist, and doubly so if you are interested in creation myths.

[@eliastouma5962]

great information , can u make a video about south turkish astrology

[@Ricca_Day]

Metal Ox, here… checking out the video. Glad you included the Chinese version.😊

[@DanceCat7]

Indeed, it is the seasons that Western astrology is based on. And we're adding new fixed stars, dwarf planets and other astronomical bodies all the time :) I still find astrology to be quite helpful, when approached in a respectful way that's not trendy. JP Morgan used an astrologer, and attributed its assistance in his success. And the Sun sign is just one piece of what should be included in any chart readings. As well as whether one was born during the day, or during the night. You research into the history is well-done.

[@thisoneladykaty]

Of course JP Morgan used astrology. the Elites are a step ahead. That's why everyone else needs to start waking up.

[@kenfalloon3186]

I used to be very into astrology when l had a more mystical frame of mind. I have thought for a long time however that the most important planet in astrology is the earth and its seasons. It makes sense that the time of year that one enters the world will impact one's personality as it impacts everything in nature. People who study and practise astrology seriously use it as a lens on the human psyche, not as a predicter of future events and Michel Gauquelin did find a significant statistical correlation between choices of career and the position of planets at the moment of birth.

[@jenlt5125]

What star sign are you?

[@Crecganford]

Me? I have no idea after this video, but a Scorpio is what I thought I was.

[@I_dreamed_my_name_was_Brandon]

*Makes a 40 minute video on ophiuchus* *discusses ophiuchus for 30 seconds at end of 40 minute video*

[@Crecganford]

Er, the video is called "The History of the zodiac and astrology" so it focused on that.

[@kalnieminen65]

Another older version of Capricorn is that its the sign or symbol of Enki, the Sumerian creator and wisdom god.

[@David.Bowman.]

30:48 Pardon me: Cosmic what?!😳🤭

[@Crecganford]

Ah, my English accent plays tricks on international ears.

[@David.Bowman.]

@@Crecganford lol British ears too I’m afraid!

[@BardovBacchus]

I think of Astrology the same way I think of Comics. I find them entertaining, sometimes enlightening, but I don't they are "real" except in the sense that justice and mercy are "real". We need stories to be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

you can read random words and you will always build story about what you subconsciously think right now you always bent what you see to what you wish to see never seeing what you actually objectively see 😂 that's the problem people see own dreams and delusions never any future and that's why they love this so much they love own lies so much

[@BardovBacchus]

Are you sure that's not just you,@@szymonbaranowski8184..? Perhaps if we get outside of our own heads we can see what's really there. Or, maybe you're just trying to use headology..? I don't believe in a flat earth but I do like a disc world

[@gabork5055]

The pig from that story is very relatable. Why try for the first place when the rewards aren't worth it and you got better things to do?

[@kerbal666]

What about native American and Celtic zodiacs or are they just new age nonsense using the zodiac as a foundation?

[@Emymagdalena]

🐖 🐂 🐓 🐍 a sacrifice to the algorithm gods

[@Crecganford]

Thank you.

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

one horse to please the 5th planetary deity 🐎

[@MommaLousKitchen]

Nice