Critical Theory and the Cynical Transformation of Society | Thinking in Public with Albert Mohler

In this premiere video edition of the popular podcast series "Thinking in Public," Albert Mohler talks with scholar and author James Lindsay about critical theory and the cynical transformation of society as examined in Lindsay's new book "Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender, and Identity―and Why This Harms Everybody."
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[@danieljakubik3428]

The world needs more mature intelligent respectful conversations like this between people with very different world views.

[@heyyou2074]

Nah, the world needs people to work with their hands on small family farms and mind their own business.

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

Your mother needs more

[@marciajohnson1245]

Fascinating discussion. I had just read “Cynical Theories” and it helped consolidate the arguments made there. This discussion forum is invaluable in today’s culture.

[@simuso3634]

Thank you, Dr. Lindsay and Dr. Mohler. I've just bought Dr. Lindsay's new book "Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender, and Identity―and Why This Harms Everybody." and Dr. Mohlers book "The Gathering Storm" as e-books and audiobooks! (Una) P.S. My brother has been studying these issues for a few years now and the experiment with the papers submitted (and accepted for publication!) re: how some dogs are able to get away with questionable behavior in dog parks, and the Mien Kampf paraphrase, etc.. are an endless source of hilarity. I love bringing up the topic because he can barely keep his composure,. Just thinking about the audacity and brilliance of the scholarly mischief tickles him.

[@gpknee]

Another excellent conversation. James, you rebuttal of critical studies is the most important work of our time.

[@jbenz4597]

I kept thinking after the interview. Wish there would’ve been a conversation about the headway CRT has already made into the SBC. Dr. Lindsay has already spoken about that on his Sovereign Nations interview. He said the surest way to destroy something like a denomination is create a path for CRT to be accepted in your seminaries, teach it to future pastors and then send those woke pastors into churches. That’s what’s happening under your nose, Dr. Mohler. It is a “universal acid” you talked about that’s eating away at your legacy and the institutions you’ve given your life to. Someone signing the BFM doesn’t matter and you know that. You need a second housecleaning like you had when you first arrived at SBTS. Courage is the only move you really have now, before it’s too late.

[@brobyck]

Agree.

[@dohctorsmith1]

Amen brother

[@deborahparrish2201]

I think courage is the one ingredient that is in short supply in this instance. Sadly.

[@jjuniper274]

I went B&N to buy your book. While there I found the likes of Sam Harris and Douglas Murray deep within the store, but yours was actually not on the shelves. 🤔 Meanwhile, Kendi and DiAngelo were all around the information kiosk at the center of the store in the most visible and prominent place. So I decided to rectify. I asked for a couple copies of "Cynical Theories." I took a few Kendi/DiAngelo books off the kiosk. It took a while, but I replaced them with "Cynical Theories," Jordan Peterson "12 Rules," Haidt/Lukianoff "Coddling of the American Mind," Sam Harris "Making Sense," and Douglas Murray "Madness of Crowds." I put Kendi and DiAngelo in the Fiction and War areas.

[@davids.897]

I went there too and put Travel under Fantasy, politics under Sci-Fi and Epidemiology under Self-Help....

[@DieFlabbergast]

They'll be coming to get you!

[@Standfaithful]

I just love how Mohler nods along as if he agrees, only to persist in infusing the SBC and SBTS with the very ideas Lindsay is warning about (all while using Mohler's own words).

[@blainemalachi1403]

A tip: you can watch series on kaldroStream. I've been using it for watching all kinds of movies recently.

[@terrencearturo7750]

@Blaine Malachi definitely, I have been watching on kaldroStream for since november myself =)

[@leighalaughlin7419]

An atheist saving the Baptist church. The lord works in mysterious ways

[@HearGodsWord]

Indeed, a bit like when he used Saul

[@laurastone6776]

Haha your comment is brilliant and spot on!!

[@bradswanson7919]

The only way to save the Baptist Church is to have it come back under the authority of Rome. The ideas of the Reformation are the fodder for post-modernism. I.e. “I interpret Scripture” and “My experience validates my interpretation.” These ideas laid the foundation for the post-modern philosophies which continually work against tradition and order. Luther was a heretic. You don’t “reform” your marriage by divorcing your wife. The need is for those who call themselves Baptist to come back to the Catholic Church, which Christ himself founded, and pray and work towards her purity.

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

"The holy do not interfere with truth. They are not afraid of it, for it is within the truth they recognize their holiness, and rejoice at what they see. They look on it directly, without attempting to adjust themselves to it, or it to them. And so they see that it was in them, not deciding first where they would have it be. Their looking merely asks a question, and it is what they see that answers them. You make the world and then adjust to it, and it to you. Nor is there any difference between yourself and it in your perception, which made them both. A simple question yet remains, and needs an answer. Do you like what you have made? --a world of murder and attack, through which you thread your timid way through constant dangers, alone and frightened, hoping at most that death will wait a little longer before it overtakes you and you disappear. _You made this up._ It is a picture of what you think you are; of how you see yourself. A murderer is frightened, and those who kill fear death. All these are but the fearful thoughts of those who would adjust themselves to a world made fearful by their adjustments. And they look out in sorrow from what is sad within, and see the sadness there. Prisoners bound with heavy chains for years, starved and emaciated, weak and exhausted, and with eyes so long cast down in darkness they remember not the light, do not leap up in joy the instant they are made free. It takes a while for them to understand what freedom is. You groped but feebly in the dust and found your brother's hand, uncertain whether to let it go or to take hold on life so long forgotten. Strengthen your hold and raise your eyes unto your strong companion, in whom the meaning of your freedom lies. He seemed to be crucified beside you. And yet his holiness remained untouched and perfect, and with him beside you, you shall this day enter with him to Paradise, and know the peace of God. Such is my will for you, and for each of you for one another and for himself. Here there is only holiness and joining without limit. For what is Heaven but union, direct and perfect, and without the veil of fear upon it? Here are we one, looking with perfect gentleness upon each other and on ourselves. Here all thoughts of any separation between us become impossible. You who were prisoners in separation are now made free in Paradise. And here would I unite with you, my friends, my brothers and my Self." .... *A COURSE IN MIRACLES* ....

[@casparblattmann755]

Dr. Mohler, can you hear what he is saying. This directly applies to the SBC and are ideologies you permit. When I saw this I could not believe it. You hear but you seem not to be able to hear. Open your eyes.

[@patriciawalters6778]

Don't you mean 'open your ears'?

[@casparblattmann755]

@@patriciawalters6778 I guess both.

[@erichodge567]

I am a liberal, I am a secularist, I am a Democrat, and this is the best discussion on this topic that I have ever heard. Thanks, Dr. Mohler. I just subscribed.

[@wanda520]

Eric Hodge Do you see what the ideologies to which you subscribed is doing to civilization? I’m paraphrasing,” you can’t live in a house that’s in ruins “

[@somexp12]

@@wanda520 The problems that many of secularists see with CRT are very similar (in many ways) with the problems we see with Evangelicals. The small compliment we have for Evangelicals (and why the above conversation was friendly) is that at least they aren't *complete* snakes.

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

You are none of these things in truth. You have fallen into a deep slumber. The voices you hear are hallucinations.

[@erichodge567]

@@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858 can you please explain what you mean?

[@erichodge567]

@@wanda520 , perhaps you can clarify to me what you mean? The United States is a liberal, secular democracy "par excellence". If the founders of our nation had been predominantly conservatives we would have had divine right kings, not presidents, just like the other divine right monarchies of the day. I'm serious, please tell me what you think my ideologies have done to the world...

[@YuDynasty]

YAS!!!!! We got video!!! Looking forward to actually LOOKING and seeing this conversation!!!

[@christinehill4491]

What a great conversation. I have listened to many of James' talks but this is by far the best, thanks to Albert Mohler.

[@joanabaumann5433]

I have been listening to The Briefing for a few years now. I have noticed something interesting on the last episodes of the podcast. Dr.Mohler identifies the ills of critical theory as derived from "identity politics". So for example, he says over and over that intersectionality is one of the negative consequences of identity politics. It seems like he has substituted the words "critical theory" for "identity politics". It would be a relief if the damage of critical theories could be isolated to politics and politicians. Is this what he is attempting to tell us? I am looking forward to the episode when he will complete that thought clearly stating that both identity politics and intersectionality are poisoned apples from the tree of critical theories applied to our highly confused and blind culture.

[@SeraphsWitness]

"Identity Politics" was a phrase coined by the Combahee River Collective back in 1977. The "politics" doesn't necessarily refer to politicians or capitol hill, but the structure of society itself; how we interact with one another. The idea is core to Critical Theory.

[@johnnywatkins]

I’m an atheist but, I’d like to say this was a very interesting conversation and an example of how people with different conceptions of the world can find common ground and share ideas with compromising who they are. Much respect to everyone involved.

[@timffoster]

Excellent! Worth listening to twice.

[@jonknight1224]

Hey Al, when are you going to fire the professors who use CRT? ...Matthew Hall & Jarvis Williams?

[@JrscottyIRL]

Well played Dr. Mohler and Dr. Lindsey! We need to do more of this.

[@sherriwalters6095]

Tremendous!!! I have my copy!

[@tovictory6012]

Now we shall apply these principals to the seminaries in the SBC. No?

[@samephraimshaversjr8864]

Excellent discussion.

[@taylorsharp5928]

Great talk!

[@Benjamin-fu5ij]

I do appreciate you having Lindsay on. But Dr. Mohler, how is the irony of this conversation lost on you? This is straight-up hypocrisy. You need to apologize to Dr. Fuller and offer him his job back.

[@HisCounsel]

SBC SHOULD LISTEN....AND SBTS. GOOD GRIEF

[@read_old_books4351]

The New York Times cheered the outcomes of the 2021 SBC Convention. When the NYT is cheering you, it is pretty obvious that you're not associated with the Christ of the Bible. James 4 - 4You adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore, whoever chooses to be a friend of the world renders himself an enemy of God. 5Or do you think the Scripture says without reason that the Spirit He caused to dwell in us yearns with envy? 6But He gives us more grace. This is why it says: “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

[@scotttownsell2569]

Al Mohler was as nervous at a cat on the front porch with 100 rocking chairs. Praying that Al Mohler wakes up and if God can use an Atheist to do it, so be it! I have come to enjoy listening to Dr.James Lindsay, praying that God reveals himself during his studies of the current conditions of Christianity. Thanks to James Lindsay for speaking truth!

[@2wheelz3504]

Why was Dr. Russell Fuller fired from SBTS while Dr. Jarvis Williams remains on the faculty? Mohler says one thing and lives out another. So much for having The Conviction to Lead. Like so many who once had courageous, uncompromising faith, he has slowly started listening to the prophets of Baal.

[@jonjennings1045]

This is an excellent discussion. We need more of these conversations especially within the church. That said, I can't figure out where Dr. Mohler stands on CRT or social justice. He's recently put out good videos but it is running rampant in the SBC.

[@slimithy99]

Exactly. There are CRT teaching professors at Mohler’s very seminary.

[@fanooch1]

Two well thought out individuals. That was a great interview.

[@Ebergerud]

Lindsay is right about basically everything - I say that as a Christian. A vital point worth more thought is Lindsay's description of the "social sciences" as being in their infancy. For the time being anyway, many Americans and Europeans have dispensed with the "image of God" truth as being sufficient for an agreed upon moral order. If you seek to find the order in the world as it exists, it's essential to see the world as it exists ... as it exists. Unfortunately that means using the massively flawed tools used by sociologists, psychologists, educators and even economists. I can see why atheists like Charles Murray agonize over the decline of Christian influence in the West. There's no good replacement.

[@SeraphsWitness]

Heck, Nietzche even agnoized over the decline of Christianity in his way, 150 years before anyone else.

[@davidorin1]

Yes a video!! Nice!

[@Ayerborne]

great conversation

[@HearGodsWord]

Al Mohler now with his own KZbin channel. This should provide some interesting food for thought.

[@kyleholifield527]

Mohler feigning agreement with Lindsey on CRT is like Matthew Hall signing the Baptist Faith and Message. It's all just smoke screen. They say one thing in public, and do the opposite when they think no one is looking. Mendacity!

[@martinjohnson5498]

50:16, "Toddler mentality." Exactly, and some day volumes will be written tying to understand and explain why so many people in authority, who should have know better, gave in to the tantrums of people with an emotional age of two.

[@leslielandberg5620]

They were compromised by the corrosive influence of communism.

[@rochellecaffee1417]

We have a place to START FROM.

[@chadwyck3006]

"Idea's have consequences", almost as if seriously taken, the consequences of such ideologies being highlighted and then labeled explicitly racist, xenophobic, etc, was the only red flag needed.

[@heyyou2074]

None of this would matter at all if we as individuals were not jammed together in cities and hyper connected to each other. I travelled the world from 1970 to 2020. I can say for sure that mass communication has created more problems then it solved. People were happier before they became aware of the wider world.

[@heidicook2739]

Lots of irony in this interview, I think. I fear CRT has already made inroads.

[@Ultra_Light_Beam]

This may be the greatest odd couple ever assembled.

[@48William]

Even more relevant on this side of the election

[@cf6713]

Guess the religious toor is continuing . Since Im here. Check out Rene Girard.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

Expectations are just more rules to live by. This is why Jesus taught to rely on Him to guide us, personally.

[@dorotheajacobsen4383]

Thank you for this deep and candid conversation. Please could you discuss Eric Metaxas' book "Is Atheism Dead?" together. I would like to hear your 2 sides in an objective view how the God of the Bible, is or is not bearing out 'accepted truth in modern science' by a 'layman's' review of latest technology and archeological finds. It is relevant to the path of modern 'events' because, e.g. the earliest ref. to the Kingdom of Judah is in a clay tablet found in Nimrud, the capital of the mighty Assyrian Empire which has become a heap of ruins in N. Iraq after ISIS obliterated the ancient city. The tablet, Kalhu Palace Summary Inscription 7, dates back to ~733BCE and describes the exploits of King Tiglath-pileser III.

[@TJ-kk5zf]

Lindsey may have saved the world

[@carlrainey]

What is the benefit of having a critical discussion about ideas originating in colleges by talking to a religious person? I would say religious ideas are far more deadly than ideas developed in classrooms.

[@NoahFred29]

This is a tactical political move. This is a well thought out and strategic move such as playing chess. This is virtue signaling at its best. Mohler hoping to get some new followers off Lindsey James fame and getting conservative Christians off his back. How about inviting Tom Buck or Tom Ascol on the show. Or how about Mohler invite his good friend John MacArthur on the show to help defend his churches stance agents Tyranny. Mohler knows exactly what he’s doing. Mohler didn’t like Phil Johnson pressing him about hard questions @ shepcon. Mohler cares more about his institution then the church or the Gospel clearly because SJ always corrodes and corrupts the Gospel. And SJ is all Mohler is about clearly by the professors he allows and protects at his school. Mohler is a closet liberal.

[@dohctorsmith1]

So, now you agree that CRT is terrible? But Russell Fuller gets ripped by you for doing same 6 years ago?’ I greatly fear for the direction my Convention is going. Resolution 9 MUST be reversed. If not then let’s just bring Freudian theory in too, as a tool of course.

[@ruffusgoodman4137]

for a split second I thought I clicked on a Rodney Dangerfield video.

[@conservativemama3437]

Is Al Mohler speaking out both sides of his mouth these days? I'm so confused by him. Pick a side. Please.

[@kieranmurphy14]

Is it just him having a conversation with a non-Christian that you are referring to?

[@qianashaw8167]

Did you realize that he was calling you out Al Mohler? You, he was talking about you and your cronies! Repent and throw yourselves on the mercy of God.

[@Josh-qo7yd]

I wish I could like this comment 1,000,000 times, but once is all KZbin will give me. Al Mohler used to be someone I looked up to. Now, he seems so foolish to me, along with Chandler, Platt, Chan, and even Piper. Mohler and Piper hurt the worst when I saw the garbage they were putting out there. Al Mohler has mishandled so much in the recent past. Maybe he will see this comment, maybe he won’t. Either way, I am praying for him.

[@psyskeptic9979]

What are you talking about?

[@HearGodsWord]

He didn't though.

[@Josh-qo7yd]

@@HearGodsWord oh but he did

[@HearGodsWord]

@@Josh-qo7yd hard to call out someone when they're agreeing on the subject.

[@catsandcrows8880]

So no compromise. But "when" this cult is in total power, how can it not be oppressive. These ideas are twisted, festering and destructive to any society.

[@robertharbitzii2763]

Is Mohler ok, he can’t stop moving?

[@tedkijeski339]

He's been like that at least since the 90s. Watch some of his early TV interviews from that time -- he's like a human bobblehead.

[@artscraftsantiquity2185]

What’s a TERP?

[@KiernanAlex]

TERF. Trans exclusionary radical feminist. There is a current war between feminists who believe trans ideology and feminists who dont. The left eating its own.

[@coxchandler1]

It seems to me that any honest observers of Mohler’s perspective on CT and CRT would find themselves at least suspicious of accusations of this sort leveled toward him when observed against the litany of diatribes he levels at these modes of thought on an almost daily basis on his podcast. Additionally, when you take a closer look at the reasons for Fuller’s skepticism of the scholarship of certain “liberalizing” professors at SBTS you will see that they are almost entirely in-house theological matters that have nothing at all to do with CT. I hope any Christians commenting on this video are doing so from a place of researched perspective and honest inquiry and not from the bandwagon of popular opinion.

[@davidharris4478]

The interview is profoundly ironic and pathetic and insidious. Ironic because Lindsey is critiquing exactly what Mohler has allowed to enter his seminary and apparently believes to some extent since he screamed at Russell Fuller, "Do you believe in systemic racism!" in effect demanding that Fuller had better believe in it. Didn't. So Mohler fired him. Think of the cruelty of that. Pathetic because Mohler is straining to try to come off as Lindsey's peer and ally in all this, but he is neither. Insidious because Lindsey is an honest atheist thinker and Mohler is a political operator scrambling to re-brand without coming clean about the great damage he has done at SBTS. Curtis Woods, Jarvis Williams, Matt Hall, and Mohler himself, exhibits 1-4.

[@Richardcontramundum]

Your argument is not valid. There is truth in it I'm sure. But you don't know most of what you are talking about. It's gossip and assumption. Fuller in general was a bad prof. Hard to get along with. Mean to students. And had low student reviews. That's why he was fired. And yes I know, Im a '19 Sbts grad

[@jamescook5617]

Wow, Mohler really has no excuse to not see the critical theorists in his own faculty. What am I to conclude ?

[@mercedesrunstuck1021]

People are not the problem. They are our opportunities. Stop being so critical. God is the only one who can change our ♥️

[@conantheseptuagenarian3824]

all of this is just a predicate of people not having a correct ontology and drowning in their own fears.

[@syourke3]

Marx would be appalled at this intersectional woke insanity. Don’t conflate Marx with this ideological @critical theory”madness. Marx was a critic of capitalism; and much of his criticism is actually valid, especially considering the capitalism of the 19th century. Certain social critics mistakenly conflate Marx with intersectionality. That’s a big mistake.

[@conantheseptuagenarian3824]

man is the image and glory of God, and woman the glory of man. women are not made in the image of God.

[@LS-mc2rv]

Would everyone please can the word woke. I don’t even want to know what it means.

[@davidharris4478]

Right, identity is really not the determinative feature of a person, not skin color. Therefore, only Woke statements on race by whites and blacks are allowed at SBTS. So Jarvis Williams and Curtis Woods and Matt Hall and Mohler himself are fine but Carol Swain and Voddie Baucham are not. You really have to pity Mohler. But you have to pity the people and the institution he has damaged much more. Imagine how ridiculous Mark Dever's rationale for why he went Woke on race would sound in this discussion with Lindsey--"he listened to the stories of blacks," Not Thomas Sowell's story. Not Shelby Steele's story. Just Thabiti Anyabwile's story and those that parallel his. What a joke.

[@jpeg100]

These analyses are already boring, even though we're still in the middle of this political chaos. We need to push even more forward and think and pray more than ever regarding the Gospel ministry. Let's bring attention to the Messiah, and not how well we understand post-modernism and other philosophies.

[@timadams9189]

Al Mohler used to be a stalwart of biblical integrity. He has become an academic chameleon. Maybe he’s tired.

[@rochellecaffee3267]

“The Greeks look for wisdom, the Jews look for signs, but I preach Christ crucified...” Man’s best thoughts will only provide more rules, laws to control people. Jesus came to liberate us from this.

[@chrisxavier1848]

Look at sex change hormones and ops being handed out like candy!

[@M3MAX]

Whatever...nice try

[@pastor1689]

Al, you really need to respond to the apparent hypocrisy you are presenting. Please do not try to play both sides of the fence.

[@aejmama4111]

I had no idea what a 2 face Mohler was.

[@jpvoodoo5522]

Is it possible to just identify as fat?

[@gnikrehposolihp]

Good interview. However, James has way too much faith in science. He most likely believes that he checks his bias, but the truth is he doesn't; he privileges his liberal/secular worldview. He's still young, so it may change. Besides, Wisdom is a lifelong pursuit.

[@jankragt7789]

Everyone should privilege their own worldview, not apologize for it. That is called diversity, real diversity -- of views. It's a blessing. Checking biases all the time has been a distraction and predictably significantly increased biases as people hide and lie and deny. Avoid the IDpol language and mentalities.

[@davidgoliath1515]

Mohler has already gone woke. Unless he is saved, he will go down the hell hole with all the rest. Eric mason,jamar tisby, you name the silly boy and albert is playing corn hole with them.

[@read_old_books4351]

Irony of ironies. At 31:47, Lindsay discusses how one of the defining features of CRT requires a sustained hyper-focus on race in order to "remove the stain of racism". Dr. R. Albert Mohler continues to point out that in his opinion the Southern Baptist Convention will never be free of the "stain of racism". Moreover, he wrote a whole chapter in a book about it. R. Albert Mohler is teaching CRT. CRT is heresy. Therefore, in as much as R. Albert Mohler does not repent of teaching CRT and presumably believing what it teaches as a worldview (in his writings and speeches), the R. Albert Mohler is a heretic. 2 Peter 2 -1Now there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow in their depravity, and because of them the way of truth will be defamed. 3In their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with deceptive words. The longstanding verdict against them remains in force, and their destruction does not sleep.

[@davidharris4478]

Thankfully, Mohler is involved in a re-branding program. As long as Jarvis Williams continues to teach at SBTS, the re-branding will not be complete. And, since Russell Fuller was screamed at by Mohler and fired because he was un-Woke, Mohler's credibility on the issue of justice is just about zero. But, since we now know that Mohler, like Bill Clinton, has no stable moral or religious core, but is willing to change his views under pressure, that can result in some less horrible results than would be the case if Mohler actually believed something deeply and was prepared to stand for those convictions come what may. But he is not that person.. He is responding to the pressure coming from the exposure of his and others' capitulation to the social justice movement on race especially but also on women/feminism and on homosexuality in certain ways (T. Keller, Mark DeVer, R. Moore, D. Akin, et. al.). Of course Mohler is nowhere near the savvy politician Clinton was, but Mohler is well read, no dummy, and politically energetic, and thus, a very fine advocate for whatever position he decides is politically attractive at the time. In contrast Wayne Grudem is just a transparent gentile genuine faithful follower of Jesus Christ. Think of what better shape the SBC would be in if Mohler shared in Grudem's character. But, we take what we can get--a Clinton who can be triangulated into better or at least less bad positions.

[@Player_Review]

_The Record of Sigma Alpha Epsilon_ (fraternity journal-publication), *March, 1920* (Vol. 40, pg. 36) "...the enlightened elements of the world are today engaged in the all-important and far-reaching business of _selling the idea of public health to the people._ And one of the most effective ways of selling it to the people is to sell it first to the universities and colleges and their adjunct organizations. If it can be brought home to the students and faculties it will gradually but surely reach further and further into the life of the people." Context: Enlisted by National Public Health Service across the nation for assistance combatting venereal disease epidemic via [peer-network] education of their scope (primarily that prostitutes = disease (labeled as primary disease vector, almost to exclusion of all else, excepting that untreated man having engaged with that toxic element then ultimately remains a threat to innocent future wife/children, so to be treated with the cure(s) = maximum repression of such elements could/would remove-supermitigate demand, thus the supply and thus the continued introduction of various VD's such as gonorrhea and syphilis get specifically named (as pertains to the secular national public health interests government's legal scope would afford such dictates upon social edict).