Dr. James Lindsay & Helen Pluckrose | 'Cynical Theories'

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C.S. Lewis

[@marcushale678]

And now the robber barons are pretending to be socially correct utopians. Good trick. That's normal for politicians as the front men.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@@marcushale678 I don't trust politicians...even the ones I like/support. They are a necessary evil. Too many people hold them in to high regard, and think they can do no wrong. I'm thinking Barack Obama (remember "Now Is The Age Of Obama"?) and (what I call) the "Ever Trumpers"...ie we must never disagree with the Great And Powerful Trump. History...History...History. To many people only pay attention to history when it suits them, and then only at a superficial level.

[@sandracoombs2255]

CS Lewis always gets it absolutely right! Shame more people are not listening.

[@SirBoden]

The path to Hell is paved with good intentions

[@richardjanowski7219]

Maybe one SHOULD read the comments sometimes.

[@DiStitt]

Thank you John Anderson, Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay. I started 'smelling a rat' a while ago and what you do helps me as I have chats with those around me. You do not speak to a void

[@sheldonobrien4358]

Helen and James are fighting a very important fight. Good on 'em.

[@soundengagement]

James and Helen are so helpful and generous with their time. We’re thankful their voices are being heard by a wider audience.

[@HoratioIsHere]

As a science educated person, I really struggle to understand how anybody can sign on to something that presumes to be able to get into the head of individuals and prescribe how they should think. It just won’t work based on first principles. That’s why I follow what these guys do

[@Teasehirt]

Extremely well put.

[@voidscreaming1012]

"science" is literally just a cult. "The science is settled!" "This is about science". You're literally parroting their talking points through their infiltration of academia. "Science" is dead; you're about 6 years behind in your thinking.

[@Teasehirt]

@@voidscreaming1012 So we are measuring in feelings and experience, get real. you have been lead through the rabbit-hole.

[@hubrisnaut]

I have been thinking about how theoretical ideology "infects" the minds of some and not others. Some thoughts; I think the idea these "mind viruses" use Appeal to Emotion as a vector is compelling. (For me, I have a feedback system loop that uses logic to test how I "feel" about a theory.) What parts of the physical brain are "in charge"? Is it possible a "theory virus" physically rearranges the parts of the brain that are "in charge"? "affluent" people have no need to have their "survival mechanisms turned on. Practical people not only do not have the time to think about abstract ideas, they immediately reject them as unworkable on the surface. Perhaps "practical people" have the parts of their brains in charge that are firmly in control and therefore immune? I have other thoughts but it is late.

[@voidscreaming1012]

@@Teasehirt Sorry, lets measure human being as economic units, and compute their emotional and political responses using an equation, all the while they're gathering outside to cut your head off. "Wait wait! I'm not a science denier, look this expert said this!" "that's not science, that's fake news" - dead. Your cult of "science" will lead you into an early grave at the hands of 80 iq subhumans. Humans rationalise their a priori beliefs using whatever is politically expidenient for the time; progressive "scientists" will provide the cover for the massacres of this century, mark my fucking words.

[@purdyday2195]

Well done Mr. Anderson....fight the good fight, you are doing an admirable job!

[@johndutchman]

I wish 'Cynical Theories' wasn't the best book I've read this year, simply for its subject matter and how disturbing the 'slow march through the institutions' has now allowed Critical Theories of all odd sorts to fully infect us in every sector. However, it is one of those tomes which must be read in order to get a grip on these nuanced positions and how they came about. Thankfully, it is brilliantly and lucidly written by two of our global gems on the crusade to crush these constructs. Buy it, read it, grok it ... it may be the best arrow in your quiver.

[@hubrisnaut]

You Dear Sir, are getting a thumbs up for style.

[@kmeinsch]

Just wondering if the arrow reference was an ironic, tongue in cheek homage to our beloved ice cream Queen Nancy. Her Chinese connections thru Swalwell, Feinstein, Harris, Clinton's and the Bidens' (if any) may be her Achilles - she's definitely a heel.

[@AMikeStein]

I haven’t read it yet, but I’ve read some good ones like coming apart by Charles Murray and The Coddling of the American Mind by Dr. Johnathan Haidt. And a Douglas Murray book. I can’t remember the title at the moment. But some really good and enlightening stuff.

[@AMikeStein]

@@AdamA-pm3yn I’ll look into it. It’s on my list of books to buy.

[@kittenclawsguitarvideos6147]

I'm going to read it. I need to learn what is going on

[@scottfranson4215]

James and Helen are so helpful and generous with their time. Great conversation - very informative and balanced. Thank you!

[@aussiegirl0002]

Something has smelt really bad for a while but even more so recently. When I first heard James Lindsay and Helen Pluckrose speak the 💡 went on and stayed on. 🙏🏽 It’s on my shopping list for today!

[@ginaritchie451]

are you saying you 'woke' up?

[@butlem12]

Anderson is my favorite Aussie! Keep up the good work sir

[@ginoriccardofiglio2384]

You're kidding. An apologist for the worst of the LNP. I'm appalled my taxes pay for his Crypto Fascist garbage.

[@shootlightsout]

Thank you for getting them on Sir. I am so glad you granted my request!

[@555Trout]

@@ginoriccardofiglio2384 You don't pay taxes. I'd give a 100 to 1 odds bet on my assertion.

[@ginoriccardofiglio2384]

@@Peter-yt7xm No. Right wing Australians are behind him. The Left despises him.

[@ginoriccardofiglio2384]

@@555Trout Yes I do.

[@kenricnarbrough8191]

Ha ha ha. Helen's diplomatic way of saying these bonkers belief systems are a luxury for the bourgeois was absolutely hilarious. (min51)

[@realMaverickBuckley]

@dancingcircle Strange. Do you think CRT is a legitimate and helpful thing ? If so, do you think that in all countries ? Or just some? Just one? Could you offer several examples of real tried and trusted 'movers and shakers' in the CRT and or SJW world? I happen to disagree with you and think that actually the Woke are 2 years past their peak and finally people are speaking out about the enormous issues with it. I think the only people who benefit from the Woke movement are the extremely wealthy. I would go into it but I'd love to listen to your point of view.

[@OkTxSheepLady]

@dancingcircle I do listen to Thomas Sowell, Glenn Loury, John McWhorter,

[@Bingewatchingmediacontent]

dancingcircle that information is interesting but I happen to know for a fact it’s incorrect, and the reason that I know very well that it’s incorrect is because I attended the college that had the first black studies program - San Francisco State University (called San Francisco State College at the time) It’s very famous for having the first black studies program, and also for having been the home of the Black Panthers, as well as home of professor Angela Davis (former Black Panther.) People are always giving UC Berkeley credit for what SFSU has done and we are very tired of it

[@Bingewatchingmediacontent]

dancingcircle you’re just full of all kinds of information, most of it wrong

[@elizabethgordon4126]

@@Bingewatchingmediacontent please note the sarcasm there?

[@MarkLacouague1]

ALWAYS enjoy your talks Mr. Anderson!

[@fhowland]

I just finished their book. It’s fabulous- everyone should read it. Wokeism is essentially a religion for those who claim to be atheist.

[@sharonalbanese8084]

Thank you for an excellent discussion. Looking forward to reading this book. Its popularity gives me hope.

[@bobbydread4464]

Great conversation - very informative and balanced. Thank you!

[@margaretpepper3550]

Let's put this bluntly....The inmates have taken over the asylum. End of!!

[@richardburton5706]

Helen and James know their stuff and still remain personable and likeable people, which in my view is the SJWs fatal flaw most obvious to ordinary people when confronting such self-avowed virtue.

[@claudiachurch4285]

no its their greatest weapon, SJWS would in the end kill you and think nothing of it and in fact feel justified in doing it for for past wrongs

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@@claudiachurch4285 Something I recall reading many decades ago. This was written about communists, but applies to "The Woke" (is their Really any difference?) I paraphrase..."They love and care about The People. Its people they despise."

[@realMaverickBuckley]

I've seen a couple of people on here calling them 'Pseudo Intellectuals', whilst submitting grammar and spelling errors. Regardless I'm not sure how two heavily educated, best selling authors with vast amounts of common sense can be labelled as Pseudo intellectual unless those people just feel threatened.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@@realMaverickBuckley Simple They Are Heretics to the New Religion...the Church Of Woke. Leftism (as opposed to Liberalism) has become a religion.

[@swordpoint9]

Communist I dealt with in the old DDR are now mixed with Maoist. It is a Cocktail of Cancellation what the DDR called Disintegration. Sad the wall fell and we can't build them to stop it! Let them speak, yet we can't. Hmmmn!

[@geoffmaputo4930]

Thank you, an excellent conversation.

[@christianbolt5761]

Educating people on the insanity within these fields is critical. People are duped by the woke disciples and their ideological branding. I find the average person has no idea of the darker aspects of their agenda, and only judge them by the most superficial charitable understanding of the lingo they use. The SJWs are able to drive a freight train through the chasm of ignorance people have.

[@elisabethericka8816]

Have you interviewed Gad Saad who is an academic at a canadian University that speaks out against the woke theory? Another really well researched academic who just published a book called The Parasatic Mind

[@realMaverickBuckley]

The Gadfather is great. Praise be to Gad.

[@pulmo1]

John, thank you for providing a platform to air the dangers inherent in this misguided philosophy. Your interview style is admirable. I love your comment that Critical theory etc., is a philosophy of blindness, not awakening.

[@AntonyRG1]

In reality, the fall of liberalism has been due to the far-left (people obsessed with equity) in the mid-late 20th century switching to a devastatingly effective sociocultural agenda. And also moving from class to race resulting in a hybrid version of Maoism (obsession with equity) and fascism (obsession with race). 2/

[@markkavanagh7377]

And its not a coincidence that it is driven by the rich kids, cos it takes the focus off of class privilage.

[@RandomAussieGuy87]

Well put.

[@warnerchandler9826]

Antony, did you actually watch the interview? I believe that was what they said. "In reality... ."

[@alocarioca]

Hollywood Woke Movies won’t see my hard earned $$ ever again! I quit them after they butchered “Star Wars”

[@zxyatiywariii8]

Same.

[@pattyb6003]

Same. 100%. The last chance was when I downloaded a dodgy version of last Jedi. Never looked back.

[@davidjfesta]

Woke Wars was CCP Propaganda

[@gammasmash1924]

@William Woke Bingo.

[@callmedeno]

I think this feels like part of the plan, remove people from their culture (and in some cases even religion, e.g. the pope talking about all this shit). You couldn't do a better job in China of turning people away from their traditional sports/religious leaders/ arts etc. than what we are seeing in the west [hyperbole obviously)

[@keepcalmcarryon3358]

This lady is the first guest who didn’t set up in front of her bookshelf

[@steenkigerrider5340]

Mr. Anderson, "The Rest" never stands up to anything until it is completely safe to do so. :)

[@coffeemachtspass]

I made sure that my university ordered a copy for its library. I can’t make anyone read it, but at minimum it will be on the shelf for those who are interested.

[@serpentines6356]

I hope your university also has works by Solzhenitsyn, et al. They certainly should.

[@jenniferbarney1127]

Thank you for your work James & Helen. As a UCSC graduate, I felt we students were being dealt a "sleight of hand" as day in and day out we were presented with Marxist and Freudian theories (actually propagandas as it turns out). On the surface these theories sounded novel, interesting - plausible even, but eventually left one feeling uneasy sensing something wasn't quite right. The deeper we went, the more I thought of my professors as abusing their power (even considered reporting them until I discovered their speech is protected somewhat similarly to the pulpit) to brain wash the uninitiated students who, starry eyed, would drink in every word. We were told what to think not how to think. I eventually asked one of my professors if they knew that Marxism has never worked - anywhere at any time? The response was "Marx would turn in his grave if he knew how others (millions!!) had misunderstood his real intentions and that they - the Marxist elites in this country - would get it right." Wow ... chilling indeed.

[@serpentines6356]

I don’t get how they combined Freudian and Marxist theories. Freud did have some valid insights into some psychological things. Profs should have protected speech, that's a good thing, and students should have the same. Open discussion and debate is good. I have come across that sentiment your Prof stated. It's very bizarre, and so naive.

[@elizabethwalker7756]

Truly excellent

[@elementality2547]

From my experience, one of the most disturbing insights is how critical race theory acts like and is essentially an emerging secular religion. An important point to be had there is that like other religions, there’s gonna be people who subscribe to critical race theory on a surface level so to speak. And most of these people gravitating towards critical race theory weather it’s because of buzz words like equality or anti racism, don’t like what the Steelmans of critical race theory sound like. This means through education we can win this war of ideas.

[@TagSpamCop]

It's absolutely not secular. It doesn't have a god, but it's 100% not secular. == secular | ˈsekyələr | adjective denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis: secular buildings | secular moral theory. Contrasted with sacred. == Secularism relates to the separation of belief from its influence on the community and others. You can have your belief, privately. Others cannot impose their beliefs onto you, and you cannot impose yours onto others. James goes into this extensively towards the end of the "Is Intersectionaltiy a Religion" video where they present to Portland State University's Republican group: "Go have your belief. Believe what you want. Privately. You don't get special treatment because you believe this with tons of conviction. Secularism means that your belief in your faith covers none of the distance to proving that it's true. Conviction is not evidence of much of anything. Except conviction." As an atheist myself, I am gobsmacked by how many atheists who claim to disbelieve faith-based god beliefs adopt faith-based political/social beliefs and never spot the contradiction or that they're joining a fundamentalist religion that mirrors fundamentalist Christianity (witch burning, heresy, original sin, grace by works, etc). The Elect are morally obligated to shame people into joining their cult, and to impose their beliefs onto everyone without ever justifying why they're true. Other than because they screech "racist!" and "sexist!" and "transphobe!" at everyone to silence them.

[@serpentines6356]

​​@HyperionUltimate The obsession with "equity" is horrifying. Talk about opressive if put into practice.

[@imout671]

JOHN, do you post anywhere else? On other platforms? I'm leaving KZbin because of the censorship and would like to watch you elsewhere. Thanks

[@adhithyasodhi3203]

Ordinary people will not and should not have to sacrifice their entire lives to speak out against this blatant idiocy. Sadly, it seems highly unlikely we'll be 'talking' our way out of this either.

[@kittenclawsguitarvideos6147]

I can't wait to read cynical theories. They have done their research

[@chadjcrase]

I can't shake the feeling that, while important, this is all just 'tinkering around the edges'.

[@jacklondon295]

Excellent and readable.

[@JYO2023]

This was really good to listen to. And agree

[@wigglethemiddle1]

Great interview questions

[@fr4gl3]

This comes from the top and that's why it is everywhere. It's the means to an end.

[@Ubu987]

I call them POA theories. They are based neither on empirical evidence nor sound argument, but pulled in their entirety from the posterior regions of fulminating, insane ideologues. The fact that they are amplified by being embedded in academia is a mystery and a big problem. Such theories should not be allowed to escape the confines of a padded cell.

[@annbrucepineda8093]

Even in the 60s, when I was in high school, I found that my father’s ideas, his unwillingness to believe that FDR had been the ideal leader, may have ruined my relationship with him. The tragedy is that my marvelous Christian but not authoritarian Presbyterian father died suddenly in 1963 when I was just sixteen. He and my mother sacrificed their own comforts to provide a safe future for me yet we were estranged. He woke early Wednesday morning; the doctor arrived in an ambulance in his pajamas to rush my dad to the hospital and we thought he’d be ok. I spent time with him Wednesday but he had another heart attack Thursday and could not have visitors the last two days of his life.

[@serpentines6356]

Ah, you spent time with him, in his last days and that does count for a lot. I don't know why no one could see him on those last two days, that's not right.

[@persallnas5408]

Jim on the great leap forward: "it dident go really well", dry understatement of the year.

[@gg_rider]

Khrushchev exposed Stalin's Holodomor and later he told Mao not to copy that. Mao's Cadre or local leaders were seizing food for export to the USSR, to pay back debts for industrial dev lending. Instead of slowing up Mao *INCREASED* quotas for confiscation, and starvation. Records were collected in central govt. Mao knew. Khrushchev wasn't honored for exposing crimes of Stalin and his henchmen. He was denounced as a "revisionist" for having compassion. There was some cautious fearful pushback from other leaders in Mao's orbit. One guy went home and learned many of his family starved to death. He called for reversing these extreme policies. Starvation wasn't a flaw, it was a planned intentional feature .. it seems .. to advance the nation as a whole in industry and economics.

[@mrlegkick91]

"workers of the world unite. Not races of the world divide"... Lol great quote

[@joshpattison8323]

It's not "Oppressed peoples of the world unite" either. Marxism is about class exploitation, not oppression. Both the speakers here and the wokeies have totally misunderstood Marx.

[@MrSears_1.618]

They are teachers of the path of Shadows. They seek to steal your Joy through the act of comparison. There are teachers of the Light. You are Free, until convinced otherwise.

[@TheBasicTruth]

John, James and Helen, thank you for your discussion here! One thing that's clear to me as a student of postmodernism (and also of the new woke version of it) is the complex nature of the system that exhibits all this wokeness. James, I've listened to a lot of your previous discussions on this topic, and yours too Helen. It's evident to me that we cannot succinctly describe the way that the behavioural aspects of people contribute to the situations we observe. It's complex. Having also studied complexity, I know that complex entities are not complicated. They are not even in the same league as things complicated, and their characteristics and behaviours are singularly impossible to understand fully. I note that few comments (65 in total at the time of writing this one) actually respond to the topic directly in this discussion. What all this suggests to me is that nearly everyone who took the opportunity to listen in on the discussion will not necessarily be able to well understand its intricacy. When I came to that conclusion, I found it alarming, because we are dealing with something that impacts on us all, few people can even remotely understand it and even fewer are likely to be interested enough to do anything about it. I applaud your tenacity, James and Helen, for keeping on the job and maintaining the enthusiasm that you had when you first began your experiments in writing and submitting bogus papers for publication in leading journals. Please keep at it.

[@Teasehirt]

It is really very simple, it an attack on common sense, common morality and common decency. It attacks freedom of speech and looks to polarise people. It's a communistic-socialist agenda looking to win by polarisation and championing the oppressive victims instead of being the voice for those in need. Victimisation is used and exploited as a vehicle to power.

[@TheBasicTruth]

@@Teasehirt as I described to you in some detail, it's not simple at all. However, you are entirely entitled to take your Occam's razor to it so that you can understand what's left.

[@Teasehirt]

@@TheBasicTruth It is very simple - unless you want to believe the Woke-Narrative.

[@TheBasicTruth]

@@Teasehirt it's not even simple, never mind very simple.

[@Teasehirt]

@@TheBasicTruth Great, maybe you could give us some examples what makes it so complex - so we know where you coming from

[@fromyonderpeaks]

Great discussion and explanation. Thanks.

[@malcolmmccoy3401]

@13:50 Pluckrose said that we can empathize across any kind of divides that exist. This is not true. For most who have not experienced poverty, marginization, sexism, racism, homophobia, or any other forms of hate or physical oppression, empathy is difficult--if not impossible--to maintain. We have tried this with White people for centuries. This is the whole premise of White Fragility and other books on race. White People as a group remain stubborn and ignorant to such efforts, and often confuse them with minorities wanting revenge.

[@L_Martin]

This is like me as a woman saying "Men as a group remain stubborn and ignorant of the efforts of feminists" and "Men have never experienced sexism so they can't empathise". It's junk thinking. Of course there are men who sympathise. Of course we as a society have progressed from the days when women were the property of their husbands. Do you really believe we're not progressing?

[@serpentines6356]

That's BS. It was Christian "white people" that pushed to rid western civilization of slavery. 'Whites' have also been enslaved, and suffered under prejudice. Many, many poor people have been "white". Your statement is racist. No acknowledgement of a "white" individuals agency.

[@pbziegler]

I am telling all of my friends to read this book. We are all progressives and I know, like me, they will be disturbed by reading this truly brilliant book

[@chrisgadsby5700]

The ability to communicate effectively goes way back to when we were hunter gatherers, either to improve teamwork and make a hunt more successful for everyone's advantage. Or to explain how to make a sharp edge for stone tools, basket weaving or making clay pots etc. Then later how to barter / trade with another group. Without jaw jaw, war war becomes more likely and everyone loses!

[@zolochnaya]

Go Mr Anderson. I'm a big Lindsay and Pluckrose fan.

[@marty7442]

Classical liberalism is not Marxism. It is a massive problem trying to convince religious, social conservatives of this.

[@apm9507]

Helen Pluckrose has a voice of liquid honey on the Cynical Theories audiobook.

[@jimluebke3869]

We lost one Communist (authoritarian bureaucratic) enemy in the USSR, but we gained what all I would call a Fascist (authoritarian bureaucratic) enemy, in China. China considers US a rival to be defeated. It's natural for us to defend ourselves and our ideals, here.

[@therealtoni]

People don't want true relationships with humans; they are already in deep communion with their cell phones. Families are splitting over this-- shows how much you mean to your family and friends

[@ns81]

To speak out against it you not only have to be financially independent but have your income source impervious to cancellation. (For instance, “influencers”, even though they might be financially independent, are still imminently cancelable.)

[@AntonyRG1]

The danger in blaming modernity. Liberalism is in decline apparently because of nihilism and civilizational-burn out. Helen Pluckrose is basically saying that we got soft. Many people often compare this to the results seen in the mouse utopia experiment where the mouse population suffers a similar type of collapse. 1/

[@sandrajune1871]

Kudos on the mouse utopia reference. Just listened to James Corbett on the mouse utopia experiment relative to covid lockdown contactless society. Thanks.

[@Jopacob]

What mouse utopia experiment? Can you send a link or a name please

[@historymatters6627]

Society itself knows better than any oligarchs, it is shaped by even our sub-conscious... and I think it has a mind of its own, operating outside of a our normal time and space

[@PaulBKal]

What I’d like to know is why the nuclear family is such a target of social justice warriors. Grateful any insights.

[@-Nos-]

Just a gleaning, no actual data to support this, but I think one supporting the dismantling of the nuclear family may put forth this type of argument: the nuclear family is a patriarchal, capitalistic, trans and homophobic, false sex/gender role perpetuating idealistic system that hinders people from expressing and living as their true self? There may be more that I am missing, but again just a quick assumption.

[@Teasehirt]

@@-Nos- It was so sad to find myself agreeing with You.

[@hubrisnaut]

The "nuclear" family what is left of the "extended family" or tribe. If that familial cohesion is destroyed, there is none.

[@smooth_pursuit]

Families gathered together in their homes commit thought crimes against the regime. Much better to sever emotional attachments. Making ‘mother’ an offensive word and replacing it with ‘birthing person’ is an excellent start 👍

[@suecrabtree2517]

The nuclear family is the basis of civilization. Destroy the nuclear family, and civilization can be destroyed, thus making way for socialism/communism.

[@Reasonable6]

But seriously where is the conversation about Julian Assange ?

[@donhansen1175]

Is this a system designed to allow beggary and bullying a justification?

[@suziecreamcheese211]

Number one, what’s going on is a diversion and 2 it’s designed to bring your vibration to a lower level. These both may have excellent points, however they just manage to keep the push and pull going.

[@Mike-br8zt]

Come back into politics John, Australia needs you.

[@hubrisnaut]

As I watch John from America, I wish he would come here and practice politics.

[@oraz.]

I don't think you can understand what's going on by focusing on critical theory as a consistent cannon, because it's not really the source of this which is due to bigger social pathologies that themselves need to be analyzed. I've noticed like he said he responds to even the slightest criticism in left circles, if you criticize things like even controversial feminist themes the response is instant and intense as if it's completely unacceptable to voice any strong criticism.

[@alifqadrmuhammad4542]

Just like the Theory of Evolution, Critical Mass Theory, etcetera etcetera; suppositions and dogma that have formed cultish and collectivist thinking surrounding subjects which are either intentionally dismissed for political reasons that eventually lead to greater mental imbalances. Had people been honest about causative factors theories would have long passed into the dust bin of history; Madness tends to beget Madness.

[@chefandy-f5z]

Somehow in the age of covid i feel that both "They live" and " Hell comes to Frogtown" could look like hiatorical fiction in a few decades.

[@andrewbaldwin4454]

Great interview. I would recommend the authors' book to anyone. One would make a mistake in ignoring the footnotes, which often include nuggets the writers seem afraid to put in the text proper. We are told (p.395) that: “Despite the relatively minor cultural differences between different countries and sects, we all share a single human culture, grounded in a universal human nature.” Is this really the case? If you went from North Dakota to North Korea, wouldn’t you be more struck by the differences than the similarities? Again, we are told: “It [Theory] could also leave us at the mercy of nationalists and right-wing populists, who pose an even greater threat to liberalism.” Got that? The radical feminist who believes Newton’s Principia Mathematica is a rape manual or the gender theorist who wants to normalize pedophilia aren’t really such a threat to liberalism as Donald Trump or Viktor Orbán! God save us from liberalism, if that is the case. It now appears that President Trump, who sensibly promised to remove Critical Race Theory from federal government training programs, will be denied a second term by Joe Biden, who wants to let small children decide their gender. If this happens, it will be a huge victory for applied post-modernism; it will be a big step in the wrong direction for America and the world.

[@galaxytrio]

Great interview. Please consider normalizing the startling loud intro and outro.

[@hubrisnaut]

You just got a thumps up. I give editing commentary and sometimes it gets noticed. They should include a link to John's prior conversation with Helen.

[@Frederer59]

I'm one of the poor, unwealthy fools who stuck their head above the FB parapet. I think I'm screwed.

[@mrlegkick91]

What happened?

[@CryoftheProphet]

where is there discord server, i wanna join it

[@chefandy-f5z]

Stop changing language. The arguement is framed by the language. Reject the language and win the arguement. JBP said all that needed to be said.

[@kevinlafayette879]

In the end, it comes down to a simple idea. What is tolerable, shall be well defined, and unchangeable. Those who are willing to tolerate/encourage/celebrate the intolerable, must be purged if you want your society to continue. There is exile, or there is execution, but at some point you either have to choose, or you have lost.

[@jeremyredd4232]

I feel like part of the problem with "educated" people buying into wokeness is that not all education is equal. Not to disparage the arts or humanities or other fields, but critical thinking in terms of self consistent logic is the domain of mathematics (or philosophical logic but I don't see a meaningful differentiation). Using mathematical logic to describe the universe, and using experiments to verify that mathematical description is the domain of the hard sciences. The most important tools that those fields provide is the ability to prove oneself wrong, and the humility that comes with proving oneself wrong repeatedly over a career. People have to be taught to think logically in that fashion, it does not come naturally or easily to anyone. People can't properly learn those skills elsewhere in my experience, because virtually no other fields reward being demonstrably wrong.

[@celestialteapot309]

Bourgeoie postmodernism and identity politics is the polar opposite of librtarian socialism, Marxism, and radical democracy.

[@natedoherty3462]

this is what happens when lazy humans bow to power and bow and submit themselves to lock step follow the leader ideas. Maybe kids in college should start questioning there social groups instead. Be a rebel. Rebel against any or all group think. Be an individual. Be a person first. Then be a part of a group. Both can be achieved

[@StellarAudyssey]

Brilliant.

[@1337rooster]

I think Helen or James needs to replace the batteries in their smoke detector. I honestly kept thinking it was coming from my house.

[@hubrisnaut]

To be fair, this was recorded in Australia and they were skyping in from America, literally on the other side of the globe. I am sure they had to turn their bit-rates down so as to avoid system data overload, aka "glitches".

[@1337rooster]

@@hubrisnaut No, their smoke detector battery is almost dead and needs to be replaced

[@TheEgoandme]

Loooove Helen!

[@richardjanowski7219]

James, you own a good microphone. Why didn't you use it? Bad audio makes it so much harder to listen to a speaker, even a brilliant one.

[@bradbarnes1839]

Poor Helen's on Dialup. James is on Tennessee DSL. John's on Fibre Optics lol

[@seanpatrick7019]

I made the mistake of putting my head above the parapet without having "fuck you" money. I may be homeless by mid 2021.

[@cinemar]

So many cowards, so little time.

[@Teasehirt]

These guys have been a huge CONTRIBUTOR to ending the woke-nightmare. CALL IT OUT.

[@stacyliddell5038]

Doesn't the whole premise of critical theory invalidate that it, itself can exist?

[@chefandy-f5z]

Selling a book is an answer? In the past a travelling live debate might help but covid isn't the reason that's not on the table.

[@hubrisnaut]

"They" don't want to debate. Some of the same people got their clocks cleaned when the debates about Islam happened.

[@chefandy-f5z]

@@hubrisnaut "They" are not "They". They are a foundational institution of our society and if no one stands up then our society will cease to exist as something that we have any right to. It will be will look futuristic, monolithic, like soviet architecture or Elon's new cyber truck.

[@pagetvido1850]

Imo postmodernism is characterized by people, mainly Europeans, being unable to forgive themselves for the horrors of the past. They're looking for redemption in the other groups of human who didn't have the power to fully express the mean Spirited parts of humanity, during recorded history.

[@heatherwoods5703]

Interesting point

[@danmcdonald9117]

Who's the f-wit whom disliked this video?

[@zyzzer]

There's 11 of them now?! There's always a hater, no matter what you do...

[@Mike-br8zt]

Probably the Australian cricket team.

[@hubrisnaut]

I am pretty sure the "woke" brigade is watching. Some of them could not help themselves.

[@anthonybrett]

Don't worry about the dislikes...its the "ratio" of likes to dislikes that should give you hope. As my mother used to say...."There's one born every minute..."

[@kdemetter]

0:28 Cool, it's a Minecraft version of Helen

[@pattyb6003]

We're all purple.

[@martinjohnson5498]

I would contribute to getting prof Pluckrose an upgrade from her 300 baud modem

[@markcarey67]

John, I wish you'd been the PM instead of Howard

[@sourcescience]

I always wondered what big Keith did after The Office.

[@ElroyMunson]

Releasing content 3 months after the interview? At the speed of life 3 months is ancient history and borders on being irrelevant.

[@PaulBKal]

I’m not sure it is three months old. There is a vague reference to anniversary, but it doesn’t seem to indicate the show was recorded months ago.

[@ElroyMunson]

@@PaulBKal 2:00 in "we are at the second Anniversary when the papers went Public"...Oct 2 2018... to the day

[@Teasehirt]

They have been speaking out on this for a long time - they have a lot on KZbin.

[@Reasonable6]

I look at it like George Carlin.

[@bertwesler1181]

If this chain's character is a doctorate it must be a doctor of Rothschild protection.

[@malcolmmccoy3401]

I found the arguments that Pluckrose and Lindsay were trying to argue down, as 'more convincing' than their points. The book is a failure for me in many ways, as the authors failed to explore the ‘why’ behind the thinking of the 'postmodernists'. They failed to explore how or even if there were biases that have affected science or the scientific method. For example, once upon of time, there used to be an 'understanding' in the science communitiy, that amongst races, whites were the most superior. This hypothesis starts with the question, "Why are black people inferior to white people" instead of "Are black people inferior to white people"? These ideas are what birthed 'eugenics' and racism, and marinated the western way of thinking for centuries. Pluckrose and Lindsay did not explore how or even if these 'scientifc' thoughts still dominate the main culture. Had they explored this route, this would have made them more engaging with their opponents' thoughts. Also, it seems that their disposition is of the belief that everything prior to 1960 was the 'right way of thinking' (a.k.a. Modernism). There is not too much critique about the modernist way of thinking, from what I read. Furthermore, everything didn’t ‘become’ about race, gender, and identity… rather everything has always been about race, gender, and identity. American History (if it were ever taught correctly) is marinated in race, gender, and identity: the institution of slavery, Jim Crow, Chinese Exclusion Act, Japanese Interment Camps, the exclusion of women in politics, the Civil Rights Movement, and et cetera. Race, gender, and identity did not just pop up out of nowhere. Pluckrose and Lindsay seem to find issues with people who find that there is room for disagreement in these matters. This is essentially like denying the fact that the Holocaust happened, and exterminated the lives of over 6 million people. Furthermore, to come up with the conclusions which they’ve made, can only be made when one ignores history. Furthermore, they do not mention the state of affairs for most non- white, Protestant, straight, and/or cisgender men at all. They do not count the experiences of minorities as legitimate unless it can be 'scientifically proven'. With all of the proof, such as government data which proves inequality amongsts minorities and other marginalized groups. As to be expected, neither Pluckrose nor Lindsay sought to include any of this data in their 'research'. For me, it was disappointing and difficult to read. Their arguments were too easy to counter (mainly due to the lack of data backing up their positions). If ideas the foster White Supremacy were a book.... If running smack dab into the point, but still missing it anyways were a book, this would be that book.

[@danettebear-ett7616]

JAMES GET IN TOUCH WITH ANDY NGO!!

[@dommerdom]

If you're going to be a public intellectual and engage in Zoom calls in service of that occupation, it'd be great if you could invest in something other than the slowest internet connection available to you. Ms. Pluckrose looks like she's being rendered on a Commodore 64.

[@lucasheuring3170]

This maybe a hard pill for you to swallow but Liberalism IS the core of the problem. You cannot combat post-modern rhetoric with modernism. It is ineffective, it has no teeth and they are not scared of you...Now, if only there was an antithetical position to modernism of which yields results in both economic and spiritual life; a 'total' view of the state where we all pull in the same direction. Such a totalitaian position that strives for transcendence and empire, now there, there is a position that they could fear. Imagine.

[@philippedesaulniers]

James flexing on us with "Dr." seems a bit too topical to be a coincidence

[@cluckycluck3053]

His real name is Sir Dr Phd Lord James The Second

[@windportraits]

critical theory does not build up identity politics, their readings of foucault and power dynamics and oversimplistic idea of 'the Woke culture' helps you all make sense power dynamics that you and I are complicit in perpetuating irrespective of the degree we are conscious of them. Marraiges splitting up, degradation of morals, etc. You are complicit in the harms and injuries and traumas of other people even if 'its generally healthier to have a somewhat more positive view'. I am optimistic, but if you think these two are giving you an accurate portrait of the thinkers in their book, the forces that produce identity politics, or the real power dynamics in understanding and labeling that 'woke' culture interacts with, well, maybe you should read foucault. Critical theory 'has really taken a role in places like hollywood... its nasty... it intimidates people who might disagree... feedback loop between theorists and activists... a kind of virus". Anyone here ever read Foucault? If you think there can be a line drawn from his works to 'identity politics radicalism' id bet the farm you haven't

[@oldomen3788]

Has James lindsay suffered a stroke before. I am curious about his lip movement feeling weaker on his left side

[@alaninsoflo]

"Hot Takes"? So 2019. No-one says that anymore. Lol.