Crossing The Abyss: A Conversation with Stanley McChrystal and Chris Fussell (Episode

[@convictednotconvinced]

Here in Minneapolis the police showed great restraint during last summers BLM riots. They abandoned an entire precinct and allowed it to be set on fire.

[@09BiGDylan]

That wasn't the decision of police. That was a decision of the mayor based on the level of preparedness they had.

[@tuntejaable]

Well maybe its because, that same government executed a man in broad daylight....

[@convictednotconvinced]

@@tuntejaable The government did not execute a man in daylight, Derek Chauvin did. Our government here is pretty left...in general.

[@tuntejaable]

@@convictednotconvinced He was hired by the government to enforce laws set by the government. So he is government. So again government executed a man. Like they have done thousands times before. People were fed up and got angrier than government was expecting. In order to not make the situation worst they gave some short term concessions. Now government is doing the same thing again...

[@convictednotconvinced]

@@tuntejaable That's a very simplified view. Under current MN law murder, execution or whatever is illegal and Derek Chauvin is currently awaiting his murder trial.

[@lexvstee]

Every time I hear something about a book being a 'new york times best seller' I wonder a little more just how prestigious such an award really is.

[@peterhardie4151]

Hahahaha. That is great. I guess its a little like being the number 1 rated pop song, winning an Oscar, etc etc. Mass appeal does not equal quality.

[@mojoman2001]

@@peterhardie4151 -- yes. It's analogous to a gold record -- defined by sales.

[@Shankabottomus]

Not a big fan of the free market? All jokes aside, I'm sure you could easily be a New York Times best seller if you really put your mind to it, right?

[@JimTheCurator]

55 likes? This comment is now a New York Times bestseller.

[@mdb9933]

It about as prestigious as an Emmy award going to a governor who let covid infected patients into retirement facilities

[@DocDanTheGuitarMan]

Come on now. This did not require out the box thinking. The Capitol attack was on the internet and social media. US intelligence failed to even think inside the box.

[@26michaeluk]

I know right? They were broadcasting this at least a week before this happened all over the internet.

[@paaaaaaaaq]

It's almost like they let it happen...

[@johnnymatias3027]

As literally public information. On top of that, the FBI has admitted they saw chatter about threatened violence leading up to it.

[@christophercochrane874]

@@paaaaaaaaq not almost, they did. Several different agencies warned about the likelihood of violence.

[@paaaaaaaaq]

@@christophercochrane874 Well, the result of the action is bright as day. Green light for massive political censorship.

[@X-fu]

Army general: "Hey, remember how we spent 40 years in regime change wars in the Middle East that destabilised the whole region and created Al-Qaeda and ISIS? Let's use the same tactics on US citizens!"

[@vandalcreed]

Remember how walls want to keep things you value safe? Trump builds a wall around the US The politicians build one around the capitol building. Speaks volumes really.

[@johnnyyork3796]

Amazing how fast the government can get walls put up when it's the ruling class that wants protection, versus small towns on the border.

[@derekjohnson6527]

Fucking rich right? Tucker Carlson was talking shit about him tonight, possibly for the comments on this podcast

[@X-fu]

@@derekjohnson6527 Yikes! I hereby state that I intended no criticism towards general McChrystal, I don't want to die in a car crash under strange circumstances like some of his other critics!

[@derekjohnson6527]

Ha fuck that! I just read this piece by Glenn greenwald he puts it much more eloquently than I do: greenwald.substack.com/p/the-new-domestic-war-on-terror-is?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMTY5NjYyMSwicG9zdF9pZCI6MzE2MzY3MDIsIl8iOiJxRGN5OCIsImlhdCI6MTYxMTEzNzM0NywiZXhwIjoxNjExMTQwOTQ3LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTI4NjYyIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.fTLyRZbQJ_6-9uHvY4NE-UyDjtT7l-Qxu6VBb4NY7-o

[@paulkossak7761]

Did he say " the Germans had a bad experience with fascism" maybe the biggest understatement I've ever heard.

[@iamFegor]

And the cow had a bad experience with a stake knife Understatement....

[@martinb4272]

An understatement I think he was very well aware of. One of the reasons I listen to Sam's podcasts is exactly this dryness. He rarely, if ever, makes a joke - however his understatements and dryness often contains the potential for dark humour. Not that I think that was his intent in this case.

[@paxonearth]

I'd say that the Jews in Europe had a much worse "experience with fascism" than the Germans did.

[@jewlovergibson2944]

@@paxonearth while you're not wrong having nearly all of your cities razed to the ground and essentially losing an entire generation of young men doesn't exactly constitute doing well for yourself either.

[@jewlovergibson2944]

@P1 Styles there was no way for the axis powers to claim victory in ww2. Once the USA was involved the outcome was written in stone. There was simply no way to destroy the american production centers in Detroit for example, while combined with the royal navy the allies could hit the axis where it mattered most. Time was the only question.

[@andrewness2641]

"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say"

[@billyb6001]

I fear what trump might say

[@spacetoast7783]

Yes, I'm glad you agree that Trump and Qultists are making false statements that are dangerous to a functional democracy. Its a valid concern about what they say.

[@jogreeen]

bye bye Orangeman. LOL

[@HorusHerotic]

@@jogreeen bye bye America. Trump was a puppet like the rest. The Dems created him. He acted a moron. They get more power ALL Americans LOOSE.

[@MrCmon113]

And that he can't write.

[@ilashandlove6726]

This probably would of never happened if the Media didn't make the BLM riots we saw all summer long acceptable.

[@KD-rs6xx]

yes yes

[@Metaphix]

Correct. Those months were deranging and infuriating to the right. We were told we can abandon the social contract if something pisses us off enough. Worse, that it works to achieve change.

[@77Avadon77]

Do you think it's just a coincidence that they spent six months riling up black people to bring the country down and giving them billions of dollars in the process and that they would then later infiltrate The vote-counting.

[@jaxstax2406]

@@Metaphix And what atrocities was afflicted onto your side again? Why did you guys storm the capital and kill a police officer by bludgeoning his face in with a fire extinguisher? What kind of legislation did your side want to pass?

[@TMAN-hw8ep]

Yeah I don't about that bud. Quit trying to shift blame on BLM or the media's coverage of the BLM protests. They don't equate, it's just an attempt to distract from the fact that the president of the United States incited a riot/insurrection on one of our 3 branches of government. False equivalencies are never the answer.

[@GhostJist]

Sam, this is over an hour of comparisons between Al Qaeda and domestic populations. And at no point did it occur to you that maybe that comparison is a bit extreme.

[@TheCorrectionist1984]

Just started listening. But right away i know one thing in common is extremist views attract people who actually experience the oppression they are fighting against less than most or not at all. This is a general proposition but borne out by the data. Many successful professionals in the insurrection. Many successful professionals carry out atrocities in behalf terrorist orgs. It's not a race or religion thing. It's a human nature thing.

[@finalfrontier001]

its actually is similar.

[@callmedeno]

BuT MuRHH InnnSURrRReCtiiiOnNN

[@midnightshade32]

Tds has him not seeing things rationally

[@omarihoward8168]

See Tulsa, Oklahoma massacre.

[@brit69]

All these intellectuals are really, really underestimating how hostile a lot of Americans feel towards Congress and government in general. Not saying I am glad or that I approve of the sentiment. Just saying.

[@icemachine79]

Because they've been whipped up into a frenzy by populist GOP con-artists for decades. Grifters like Newt Gingrich, Pat Buchanan, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Michele Bachmann, and culminating with the ultimate sleazeball Donald Trump have lied to them for so long that they've lost touch with reality.

[@nad1ax2]

Stop being dishonest, this happened for a very unambiguous reason, the rioters were decidedly acting upon false information purported by a sitting president and one which is part of the biggest and most vicious disinformation campaign in Modern American political history It took 1 man and his sycophants to perceptibly destroy the social fabric of the greatest country in the world. This can only mean one thing -- that our society isn't sustained by laws and statutes, but by norms. And by the core decency of the people that preside over us

[@nad1ax2]

​@@Traveling_Trefs Pat Buchanan is by all accounts, a far-right paleoconservative American firebrand and a literal apologist for Francisco Franco, Mussolini and Oswald Mosley. Trump himself had called Pat a "Hitler-lover", not long ago kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWmVmYqhia94fcU And while Buchanan still endorsed Trump in 2016, 5 years later, he acknowledges that Donald J. Trump has no moral character and his sociopathy is directly responsible for what is happening So, acknowledging a plain and simple truth, which is that Donald J. Trump is a sociopathic goon who should never have been elected to office doesn't have to be rooted in one's ideology

[@jasonleonard9776]

@@nad1ax2 yes it was all Trump. Which is why it has happened independently in every single Western country in the world. You are wrong, propagandised, and eerily proud of it.

[@icemachine79]

@@jasonleonard9776 In America, it _was_ Trump. Why are you so desperate to pretend otherwise? That's the real TDS at play here.

[@posieglom3215]

i think we need to discuss how financially crippled the average person is, and the mental health toll that takes on people. This has been growing since the 1970s, as salaries have not kept up with cost of living, growing further and further from it, and avenues to accumulate debt have become mainstream and common. This is now compounded by COVID. I think it's possible that the vast majority of these people are in deep pain over lack of control over their daily life and financial stability, and this is their way of coping with feelings of utter helplessness. This is also reflected in the rising suicide rates, as well as the rise in chemical addiction. Clinical depression and anxiety disorders not only cause near-incapacitating pain, but may manifest in anger management issues and include side effects like paranoia and delusion--all possible explanations for this trend. Simple therapy and antidepressants can help to a point (and this crowd would tend to reject that), but even these practical aids will not dig someone out of the agony of being in financial ruin. This is why empathy may be required to turn this all around, rather than the anger we are seeing on both sides. I know The Atlantic just ran a piece saying that these folks are not all low-income and low-education, but I'm not buying that, as far as the majority of this movement.

[@agreattimetoday]

Excellent point!

[@parabob2359]

I agree. A book i found useful in understanding the economic basis for populism is Angrynomics, by Eric Lonergan and Mark Blyth. Blyth is an economist at Brown and has plenty of podcast apoearances.

[@christopher3287]

And yet a lot of the people who stormed the capital FLEW IN for the day. The poor people were not storming the capital in their tactical military like gear, decked out with Trump merch and flags....not the poor needy uneducated Republicans you're picturing

[@posieglom3215]

@@christopher3287 I think that's true, but I think that's because those storming the Capitol were the people with the ability to go (and not miss work, kids, able to obtain transport and lodgings). They were the absolute fringe, motivated to act illegally, etc. I was referring to the vast majority of people who believe the way-out claims. I guess it's important to differentiate.

[@sobriquet5016]

Absolutely. Anyone wanting to read more about these kinds of issues should definitely consider reading 'The Spirit Level' by R. Wilkinson and K. Pickett.

[@tomcotter4299]

How can you support anti-discrimination laws, on the grounds that the discrimination is so ubiquitous that it's unavoidable, while still believing coordinated discrimination to snuff out an entire social media platform is okay?

[@helenachase5627]

Thank you for pointing that out

[@annaturba]

If the social media platform is violating rules about not promoting violence, it should be shut down.

[@tomcotter4299]

@@annaturba Parler doesn't promote anything. It's merely a platform, as you said. If we applied the same standards that were applied to Parler to Apple, Google, and Amazon then all three of them would have to be shut down. All three have provided a platform to people that have committed acts of violence.

[@tomcotter4299]

@Jim Are you whating me?

[@EK63315]

Anti-discrimination laws, such as the Civil Rights Act and other similar state laws regulate discrimination based on protected class. The exact definitions for protected class vary by jurisdiction, but generally it includes ones race, ethnicity, gender identity, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc. - not political ideology (with the exception of Washington DC, where this is a protected class). The idea behind this is that immutable aspects like the colour of someone's skin or their age are not a choice, it's how they are, while ideology is a set of beliefs you choose to subscribe to or align with. In terms of Parler, they were a platform whereby people were able to engage in coordinating and planning violent attacks that were nearly carried out, or at least carried out in-part. As a service provider (Amazon Web Services) you are absolutely allowed to cancel your services to a customer who is using them for something against your Terms of Service. To address your analogy, if Google, Amazon or Apple were using another company's services and that company found that actions on Google, Amazon, or Apple's platforms were against their terms of service then they too could be dropped from that company's service provision. Thing is they all have their own servers and work for themselves, so they answer to nobody... The bigger debate here should be whether or not it's right that these tech giants have a monopoly over web hosting infrastructure, such that 3 companies or so denying service to one can sweep that company under the rug, but yet nobody can do that to them. Right now Section 230 allows these companies no responsibility or liability in the eyes of the law for the content they platform, perhaps this is something that should change? Who knows.

[@Ton369]

This whole conversation is of 2 guys (who spent their career herding prisoners in a desert country that we should have never been in), talking about how to defeat right wing conversations by using the government to de-platform people practicing the constitutional right to freedom of speech. I'm sure their strategy works great in the desert. But this is America jack.

[@Skeptique]

It's shocking isn't it?

[@semarugaijin9451]

It actually didn't work too well in the desert either, the fact that Sam is propping up 2 neo-con mass murders, who attempted to "re-educate" and "de-radicalize" the Muslim world by bombing them, slaughtering them and forcing them into re-education camps..... as a model for what we should do to conservatives in this country.

[@jasonb.9167]

Great point, I got about half way through and only looked at the comments to see if anyone else picked up on how they are talking about republicans, conservatives, and pro 2nd amendment folks as if they are the taliban... Scary stuff, they are kinda validating the concerns of the right...

[@Amandth89]

2020 the pandemic 2021 the war

[@littlehandsgivescovfefe4837]

You’re clearly not listening and actually making his point. Because you’re already unable to separate you’re allegiance to right wing conservatism and hear rationally about some followers who are willing to use violence for a movement/ideology that is attempting to usurp the rights of the majority of American in a free and fair election. The more right wingers cling to that without an introspective reflection and dig in their heels the more likely you create no peaceful Avenue except violence. Are deluded retired mail vets beheading people yet? No, but neither were they in Iraq in 03..yet. Lieutenant gov of Texas and Glenn beck disgustingly saying they will sacrifice for them on the alter of the Wall Street gods and don’t follow through because they were full of shit, gets far closer to the paradigm of nihilistic violence. The temp is raised, then you justify action for violence the same way vs Shia and Sunni. ‘We love death more the. You love life.’ That’s what IsIS said as the big dog in 2014. This is the natural evolution of extremism, just cuz they have Arabic names doesn’t mean the same shit can’t devolve back home. We’ve had Waco and Oklahoma City. This is pretty simple non-partisan but you’re refusal to even try to understand or suspend you’re own political temperament for a min shows scarily how much more likely things can become similar.

[@lumeronswift]

The idea that "maybe they are pro-cop" is never a reason to reduce police numbers. Crowds do not have the same sensibilities as individuals, and history is absolutely cluttered with crowds devolving into mobs. Even crowds starting out with anti-violent goals in mind (such as with Ghandi) can devolve quickly.

[@henrylicious]

Gustav LeBonn wrote a great book on this.

[@yoyo-lf3ld]

the reason there weren't cops there is because the right has never been violent like this.

[@alfredogonzalez8735]

Surely you know he was talking descriptively, not prescriptively

[@alfredogonzalez8735]

@@yoyo-lf3ld except last time at Charlottesville and New Zealand

[@christopher3287]

@@yoyo-lf3ld 🤣🤣

[@markstewart7002]

I wish these podcasts had clips and you could see them talking

[@mojoman2001]

Isn't that kinda the key distinctive feature of podcasts?

[@EnterHacker]

Ya

[@EnterHacker]

@@mojoman2001 not necessarily

[@Pieman29666]

@@mojoman2001 this is like the only podcast with no video that i follow...

[@user-tl4fi6oy8d]

I wish it had video so I could see how Sam looks when he says, "This is Sam Harris............ Ooookay..."

[@travisstotts1107]

I cant believe some of the things said in this podcast. Lets use more power to suppress speech. At what point does the constitution mean anything.

[@bellezavudd]

The 1st amendment doesnt protect fraud or speech that incites immenent lawless action. Perhaps thats their angle. Plus one of the guests does say that some solutions are temporary fixes that dont respect civil rights yet mat be necessary so the two sides don't destroy each other.

[@travisstotts1107]

@@bellezavudd who determines what speech incites lawless acts or violence?? And were does it give exception to freedom of speech. Taking down the extreme end of 1 party is not going to help at all. Its just going to make the silenced more sure of their convictions an encourage them to double down. Maybe if they also took down the extremist on the other side i would agree on it being effective. but still not agree on the constitutionality of such measures. We need open dialog and conversation. The dems should have been way more open to the investigation of ballots from the beginning and put the conspiracy to rest with the facts. But they were extremely combative and dismissive to the accusations and that only added an gave fuel to the conspiracy.

[@bellezavudd]

@@travisstotts1107 If anyone knew the proper course to take we prpbably wouldnt be in this situation in the first place. Though it would benifit any Trumper to consider his actions before he was President. He called his 1st election fraudulent, even though he won. He also previously called every law suit against his business fake news. Any lawsuits he lost ( quite a few ) were also decried as fraudulent by him. Seeing his pattern ? Why do you think that is? If you really think trump is the 'mostest honestest' person alive and that he and only he can save civilization , as he and his followers claim, well I've nothing to add.

[@kypdurron62]

That's a bit rich considering people were about 60 seconds and 100 feet away from tossing the Constitution under the bus about two weeks ago.

[@samwise1790]

@Pitch everything you said is naught but the kind of shit you'd expect to hear in a freshman dorm after a joint has been passed around masquerading as profound thought. It makes zero sense you have wanted trump for 4-8 years in either the short or long term for the democrat base or leadership.

[@Muonium1]

WTF is going on in that thumbnail bro??? was there a boogaloo bukakke sesh at the Capitol raid I missed?

[@thereisnosanctuary6184]

LoL

[@marshalldillon8697]

Boogaloo bukkae wtf lol 😂

[@johnboettcher1962]

You have done harm with that comment.

[@davidberry8808]

😂🤣😂🤣👏👏

[@77Avadon77]

😂😂😂😂🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆

[@vykintasmorkvenas6839]

Every time I hear people saying prudent things like those that today's guests have said to Sam I reignite hope in my heart for a rebirth of wisdom in US and in all humanity as well.

[@BhutanBluePoppy]

Vykintas M...yes, these are the first guests on Sam's show who are able to be critical of Trump without descending into irrationality or "motivated reasoning". That is refreshing.

[@aaoppe]

What’s the image of a rabid Theo Von doing in the thumbnail? :D

[@jasonr1150gs]

Dunno but it’s perfect

[@aaronsmyth7943]

Slobberdan Milosevich

[@DanHowardMtl]

That's Sam.

[@77Avadon77]

Try to make white people look bad probably

[@jaxstax2406]

@@77Avadon77 rofl what?

[@magicskyfairy69]

Black Panthers already stormed the capitol with loaded semi-automatic rifles in 1967. They showed up, marched in, made a big show of it, and then left. No one shot any of them. So for those of you asking the question, "what would have happened if these were black protesters?" You have your answer because it already happened. no one would be shot, and they'd be permitted to just walk in and do whatever they wanted.

[@Ancor3]

The BP pretty much launched a surprise attack on the capitol with only two dozen people, hardly a "storm", much less something the authorities could've prepared for. Not really analogous.

[@magicskyfairy69]

@@Ancor3 interesting mental gymnastics. BP fully armed with rifles, and Trump supporters unarmed. liberal sophistry never ceases to amaze me

[@Ancor3]

@@magicskyfairy69 Trump supporters came armed and numbered in the thousands. Interesting mental gymnastics.

[@magicskyfairy69]

@@Ancor3 this is why I cant talk to liberals, you dont describe reality, you argue with your bases in fantasy. the footage is available and yet you still say these non factual things

[@Ancor3]

@@magicskyfairy69 Yes, footage of armed Trump supporters attacking the capitol is indeed available. Not all Trump supporters were armed, but some were. Guess reality is with the liberals yet again. I'll size down the crowd from an estimate of a few thousand to hundreds though, as if that will make any difference. Furthermore, the BP attack ended with 0 deaths. The Trump attack ended with 5 deaths (miraculously not more). The BP went outside when they weren't allowed into the Assembly Chamber and continued their protest on the lawn. Trump supporters attacked cops/security and the media, tried to breach the chamber and people got killed in the process. Dude, the situatios are not even remotely analogous. The BP protest was absolutely miniscule compared to any BLM protest today or the Trump capitol attack. You would not expect a massive reaction in that scenario, especially not given proper context.

[@Stantorr]

39:25 "...to the point that they are ready to do violence." For four years we were told by politicians, pundits and "journalists" that it is a legitimate way to respond to disagreements. Is it really surprising ?

[@jaxstax2406]

@Jasta 2 one is trying to overthrow a democracy the other is trying to put regulations on police abuse. No double standards.

[@Kaddywompous]

That isn’t remotely true.

[@jaxstax2406]

@Jasta 2 what should take its place?

[@DrunkenAussie76]

@@jaxstax2406 Given the italian anti british ww2 propaganda poster Jasta has as a profile pic I would guess an unironic fascist regime...

[@kingfelix3114]

@@jaxstax2406 lol the double standard is that you’re ok with political violence so long as you agree with underlying cause. Sick stuff bro

[@hateeternalmaver]

You especially should know about the psychology of crowds and how easily they can be steered and manipulated regardless of the original intention.

[@gilianrampart8514]

Seems to me they are ignoring alot just to push a narrative! A righteous narrative? I dont know.

[@timon20061995]

@Jasta 2 That's like saying why worry about any US problem when some African kid can't ever have clear water.

[@MechanicalMooCow]

Please mister psychology, teach us your learned ways

[@deathtoamericaallahakhbarm2471]

Lets steer the useless sheep into glorious Jihad

[@deathtoamericaallahakhbarm2471]

@Jasta 2 Sam seems to be slow on some topics, mainly those that don't favor his sensitive soft minded socialist followers who think they're smart, primarily his donors, gotta have the cheese flow.

[@jennamarie2481]

So the one guy says that "when there is violence in an area, whether coalition forces or taliban caused it, it created more violence after it. It created an atmosphere where it was easier for people to be violent" This is exactly what people were saying at the beginning of the George Floyd protests that devolved into riots across the nation. Every action gets an equal and opposite reaction.

[@GG-cr5hm]

Shutting down these people's apps and accounts instead of holding public debate about their ideas is a bad idea and just drives them underground even more and emboldens and confirms their views.

[@mojoman2001]

You cannot debate nonsense like QAnon or Stop The Steal. Ridicule is the appropriate response.

[@christopher3287]

You can't debate their conspiracy, all evidence that is provided contrary to their beliefs is just discounted as bogus. They use lies to get what they want...fuck'em

[@christopher3287]

@Michael Hart who does the educating? How do they reach all of the different populations? These conspiracies are being mostly created and spread online, how do you tackle that? Social media is the number one culprit of how these things spread and they're designed to sell shit and show people what they want to see. Seeing the issues here?

[@tsujen]

You honestly think they will debate in good-faith? Debate is good for some things, but not for talking someone how of their self-inflicted dogmas.

[@baileybartley2463]

Look at the losers who think you cant debate ideas

[@roberts3889]

My perspective: the police presence at BLM and Antifa rallies evolved over time to meet the typical behavior exhibited at those rallies. It didn't start out with massive presence. Trump rallies are generally less violent, therefore overwhelming police presence wasn't deemed necessary.

[@EmWarEl]

Not a Trumper. Did not vote for him. But it is amazing to me that these people cannot see (at all) that Trump had a multiracial appeal among low income and middle class voters, garnering more of the minority vote than other Republicans in recent elections. The idea of this "white resentment" is certainly true in some particulars, but outdated on the whole. In my southern rural town, we have a fairly large Hispanic population. There is a solidarity between struggling Hispanic and white families, all of whom face an uncertain future in a shifting economy. They are in the exact same boat, and I am sure many black families feel the same way. This reality appears to reside in a blind spot for academics and people of education and means.

[@timothyh7053]

I'm politically neutral, so I have no dog in the fight. What I can say is I have enjoyed listening to Sam since the Christopher Hitchens days, especially his more recent conversations with Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray. In recent years, as his hatred for Trump has grown, I find him to be ever less tolerant of those he disagrees with. Almost as if he has begun to create an echo chamber for himself and his views. Am I alone in this observation? I am open to being corrected if I am mistaken.

[@edmonddantes563]

Yeah I agree, I saw sam live and am a big fan. And I’m certainly no trumper.

[@magoo1950]

No, not a huge Sam fan but I think he has realized there is no middle ground between Qanom and reality.

[@TheMientiao]

The Weinsteins made a good point about the motivations and repercussions of people identifying their enemies as terrorists.

[@stevenoverlord]

Stanley mcrystal only knows how to create enemies to justify military action. This propaganda serves a purpose

[@texasd1385]

There's nothing wrong with calling terrorists terrorists, trying to ignore a terrorist attack that everyone on earth witnessed live in real time or pretend it didn't happen is insane

[@alelectric2767]

Germany had a “bad experience “ with Nazis . That’s putting it mildly.

[@karat-s7330]

LOL

[@sethrichnietzsche]

Yes.

[@scottgreen132]

Putting it mildly is putting it mildy

[@baileybartley2463]

Germany had detention camps for covid rule breakers

[@Varlwyll]

No, Germany had a bad experience with democracy.

[@jasoncreamer5747]

The very fact that you have two military men speaking about policing the people as if they were Taliban in Afghanistan means the USA is already a lost cause. Just by the way those policing actions didn't even work in Afghanistan it just slowed down the acceleration of a lost cause.

[@iankclark]

A lot of pearl-clutching going on here. The more I listen to Sam I feel his elitist arrogance showing through.

[@iankclark]

@tree down Point taken. I think we all want the nation to succeed but I think Sam's reliance on the wisdom of the establishment is misplaced. The madness happening at both ends of the political spectrum has been manifested by deepening corruption, senescence and conceit in the institutions (the cleptocracy, the deep state, the cathedral - whatever you want to call it). An entrenchment of the 'rational' technocracy of 'experts' will be the death of us all.

[@Ozymandi_as]

Pearl clutching, elitist, arrogance. That's just a list of perjoratives, the rhetorical equivalent of shooting the messenger. SH is worried that a sizeable proportion of the population cleave to beliefs that defy logical explanation - QAnon, Stop the steal, etc - and this is undermining civil discourse to a dangerous extent. If you disagree with him then say why, but just peppering him with adjectives doesn't amount to an argument.

[@nicknomski8399]

As the corruption grows and metasticises, so does the size of the 'fringe' groups across different parts of the spectrum

[@iankclark]

@@nicknomski8399 yes

[@iankclark]

@@Ozymandi_as well first, he is talking to a couple of military technocrats who have done absolutely nothing to advance the cause of humanity other than mouth a bunch of soul-destroying gobbledygook. Sam is so attached to reason and logic that he misses the ‘heart’ of the matter. “Oh these people are deluded”. Yeah when has that not been true?

[@CBfrmcardiff]

Sometimes protests get a massive police reaction. Sometimes they don't. I can think of examples where police were chased through London by BLM protesters, and in every country where cops knelt in front of BLM protesters. In contrast, anti-BLM protesters were treated very roughly in London... On the other hand, anti-globabilisation protesters (left wing types) a decade ago were ruthlessly "kettled" by police here a decade ago, and a passerby was pushed over and killed by a cop. What does this mean? Well, there are complicated currents of political bias, but the main lesson is that the police are risk averse. They wish to avoid the secondary risk of provoking violence, so if possible the policing is minimal. However, above all, they wish to avoid the collapse of order, so, if it's not possible to keep policing minimal then it is total overkill. Hitherto, Trump rallies have been peaceful, so unless counter-protesters intended to arrive, the police had no reason to turn up in force. From now on, peaceful Trump supporters shall no doubt be confronted with rank upon serried rank of bored police officers.

[@26michaeluk]

Trump rallies hadn't always been without violence. Plus these people were broadcasting what they were gonna do weeks before hand.

[@CBfrmcardiff]

@@26michaeluk I confess I haven't been following it that closely, but I noticed that RSBC (the KZbin channel set up specifically I think to broadcast Trump speeches + Trumpster commentary) didn't anticipate a riot. They anticipated speeches on the steps of the Capitol building, and live coverage of the Senate debate. The guy they sent to the Capitol was surprised, initially, to find it unreachable, while the other team walked back from their hotel room, towards the end of the period of disorder, and seemed a bit unsure as to what was happening and why. You would think that if anyone was informed about what was going to happen, it would be them. From my perspective, my first news of these events was pictures of people sat in the seats of Senators, which I found quite amusing, and I only saw the violence afterwards. People are saying that this event has to be characterised in this-way-or-that-way, but I see an event with more than one aspect to it. One of the speakers in this podcast said it was unthinkable that a "crowd would be sent to Congress", which confused me, because in the rest of the world crowds protest outside of legislatures all the time, and I know that occasionally groups of people manage to enter a legislature and disrupt the process. Does this not happen in America? Is it because the Capitol and its grounds are so large that protesters cannot be heard inside unless they are physically on the building itself?

[@elvinimali706]

Good sensible analysis

[@sobriquet5016]

@@CBfrmcardiff Excellent nuance, and I wish I had time to try to match that level of nuanced analysis. However, "hang Mike Pence", "where's nancy?". Chanting of "Fuck the police". This is violence aimed at overturning a fair election. Don't tell me that in other countries mobs of one personality cult enter their legislature to murder the 'other team'.

[@geekylove3603]

@cardiff. How dare you speak in a balanced nuanced manner.

[@chojinnppp]

Protestors organize in-real-time on FB and Twitter, so we need to cancel Parler and Gab...this is the Making Sense Podcast.

[@jeffdickerson19861]

A-woman!

[@kypdurron62]

Freedom of speech ends at insurrection. These idiots can find places to push it, but you can't demand companies carry it. The data shows that removing this garbage decreases its presence. We live in a world where people don't fact check their beliefs and calibrate their information sources accordingly. That's not tenable.

[@vandalcreed]

@@kypdurron62 lolol yeeeh how long did this so called "insurrection" last? 4 hours? Did they actually take over the capitol building or did they leave peacefully? Speaking of ideologies, a wall represents that you want to keep something safe and protected Trump built a wall around the US. The politicians built a wall around the capitol building.

[@kypdurron62]

@@vandalcreed Most failed insurrections are pretty fast. It sort of goes along with the whole 'failed' thing.

[@kypdurron62]

@@vandalcreed And Trump only built about 15 miles of actual new wall. The guy is and always has been a joke.

[@frankmaitland2569]

Sam did you see the police presence in Seattle C'MON man

[@Kaddywompous]

What’s your point?

[@MawcDrums]

@@Kaddywompous The point is that this shit was plastered all over the internet for weeks before it happened, and they had like 50 cops there.

[@frankmaitland2569]

@@Kaddywompous My point is specific to what he was saying at a particular point. But I think he downplayed why there was not enough police on duty . Anyone with eyes could see the militarized military police response . Sam does this housecleaning metaphor to explain away legitimate criticism of his positions

[@soma27]

The police presence that let a small area of a city be taken over and shit being set on fire and violence every night? Some areas had a huge police presence, some had very limited

[@timhammick8230]

I am a foreigner, but I have been following American Politics for a long time. To say that this was not predictable is astounding for the following reasons: 1. Trump had been signalling is intention to contest the mail-in ballots since early summer. 2. He had also been saying that he would not acknowledge defeat under any circumstances. 3. In one speach he even sugested that he should be entitled to three terms because of the obstruction by the Democrats during his term. 4. In the immediate aftermath of the election, he did both of the first two points. 5. His campaign 'Stop the Steal' was continually broadcast to the nation, but never supported in the Courts. However it must have had a radicalising effect in Trump supporters. 6. He tried to prevent States certifying State elections. 7. To try to prevent the Electoral College votes was the last chance to do this. Trumps intentions were constantly signalled on social media and Web news outlets. I week before the 6th I had a conversation with a Republican friend, where I expressed my reseervations. He thought I was mad. I believe this was an attempted Fascist coup, which would have adressed point 3. Every democratic country should take note. HITLER WAS ELECTED!

[@FocusProj]

At least the comments section is open. Thank you Sam.

[@FocusProj]

@vctjkhme whenever I check news, I jump to the comments section before reading all the article. The gap is abysmal sometimes.

[@dustinpackard1929]

The fact that people can't gauge corruption blows my mind. We've created a culture of "pics or it didn't happen". That's great, but the thing about criminality and corruption, is that the culprits are trying very hard to not be caught. You are not going to find tons of evidence, and they will make sure there is plausible deniability at every turn. You have to read between the lines....

[@ianocono]

“You are not going to find tons of evidence” - no one found ANY evidence.

[@dustinpackard1929]

@@ianocono it's called circumstantial evidence, which will not hold up in court, which is why nobody calls it "evidence". That's the whole point. But if you are paying any attention at all and can hold more than 2 data points in your head at a time, virtually none of this makes sense. I could probably write a dissertation length paper on all the wonky BS that doesn't make sense.

[@dustinpackard1929]

@@ianocono by your logic, OJ simpson was not guilty bc the courts decided so. Just face it, what holds up in court and what doesn't is obviously irrelevant to what the truth is. But we also don't want to throw out due process. All I'm saying, is don't be a naive sheep.

[@dustinpackard1929]

@@ianocono We have an establishment with virtually no transparency, and then what does leak through the cracks is obfuscated to no ends by the media. And yet, somehow people imagine themselves making calculated decisions and culminating accurate world views, as if they had a complete picture of the data. Truly amazing...

[@ianocono]

@@dustinpackard1929 that’s a lot of replies to unpack lol. How about this, can you link any evidence? Don’t just say “don’t be naive”, show me something concrete. If it’s real, I’ll concede my point.

[@glennmitchell9107]

Police don't shoot people one shot, one kill. Police empty their magazines in single suspects. One shot, one kill, controlled fire, and conserving ammunition are lessons taught to Soldiers.

[@MiaogisTeas]

Sure bud. Day one of police training is "How to mag-dump a black man who was a good father, working two jobs and putting himself through college."

[@Ultracity6060]

For all of Sam's railing about conspiracy theories, at least some of his understanding of this situation seems to be rooted in conspiracy theories.

[@123mneil]

I wasn't following Sam during the Russian collusion news cycle. Did he call that lies like he calls the election fraud lies?

[@Ultracity6060]

@@123mneil Can't say for sure, but now that you mention it, I don't think he did. Here I thought his views and biases had been shifting, but maybe I'm deluding myself and he's been consistent.

[@gregridd]

firmer online restrictions and re education centers. sounds familiar

[@plaguex1]

Yup. I've seen movies about this. Schindler's List was one.

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

I am a 23 year military veteran. Therefore going in, by virtue of their rank and positions held, I had a great deal of respect for both guests. I have never lost respect for people so very quickly. They use the language of the intellectual terrorists in the social science departments. They didn't quite say "White Male Privilege" but they did say "Privilege" then talk about white men. They are fully supportive of the act of overturning the cornerstone of a free and equitable society, which is free speech. ISIS is a day planner for psychopaths. Its relationship to Islam and pious Muslims seems to be irrelevant. These men seem to be victims of the parasitic mind DIE Cult coming out of Western universities. I am extremely disheartened; or should I say demoralised?

[@EskiLdn]

Dont be demoralised and keep fighting (peacefully) someone like you really needs to speak sense into sam but im honestly starting to think he is being paid to say what he is saying as this doesnt sound like the sane harrisi used to know.

[@matiaslarenas5901]

@@EskiLdn so when a learned man spouts nonsense you agree with its all fine, but when said educated man educates himself even more, and begins saying things you disagree, now he is getting paid??? LMAO ffs

[@EskiLdn]

@@matiaslarenas5901 Who said i used to agree with sam?. I dont share the same views sam has on islam or on religion. But at the very least the things he said then sounded sane. Now hes calling MAGA ISIS, sorry but thats not the educated sam i used to listen to.

[@cullenarthur8879]

Have you ever considered that what they say may have some truth to them? And just because they make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't mean his points are wrong.

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

@@cullenarthur8879 Have you considered that I have a mind of my own. I am aware that the Social Science departments currently in vogue are entirely political and anti science. They even declare themselves post truth. They lie. There so called Peer Reviewed papers are indecipherable by anybody not in the field not because they are dealing with difficult subjects like math but to obviate and to exclude. Astronomy is difficult enough so they call objects near the earth, near earth objects, they call holes that are black black holes. The intellectually dishonest confect sentences so long it is impossible to speak them aloud. They are constructed with words that in normal usage mean something entirely different to what they are using them to mean.

[@taylorharper3316]

Anyone else notice the hypocrisy highlighted by this podcast in terms of Sam’s prior religious extremism motives? He has always argued jihadism and terrorism is motivated by a belief in religious doctoring and has rebuked the thought of a nuanced view which includes political and social motives.

[@totesbotes4660]

Listen Dan Carlin and Sam speak. Dan Carlin pokes holes all through Sam's ideas.

[@MrCmon113]

Wrong. He has a nuanced view in opposition to the completely motivated thinking that denies the reality of religious motivation altogether.

[@GeraldineLancaster]

"Kicked themselves loose of the Earth", is a great saying

[@keithhunt5328]

It's from Heart of darkness

[@natc2191]

I consider myself, an intellectual. Conservative by heart but, always interested in hearing other's points of view. Which is why I listen to this show. You covered all my thoughts. You conduct yourself, in such a professional and logical way. I love the show. Thank you sir.

[@Patrick-gf5xg]

Any intellectual Conservative podcasts you recommend Nat. I'm interested in learning more. Thank you.

[@robby3467]

@@Patrick-gf5xg Any intellectual Liberal podcasts you recommend Patrick. I'm interested in learning more. Thank you. :) Frankly, it's difficult finding good podcasts on either side of the divide. Sam Harris was one one of the few on the left whom I considered balanced. The wheels started falling off when Trump won in 2016 due to what many refer to as TDS. I've recently unsubscribed from Liberal and Conservative podcasts due to the woke crap and identity politics on the left and religion, conspiracy crap and the deranged attitude toward the pandemic on the right. They've all lost the plot.

[@jasonleonard9776]

@@Patrick-gf5xganything filmed before 1970

[@olgil]

Sorry to be pedantic but you're claiming to be an intellectual but you don't know how to use commas.

[@Patrick-gf5xg]

@@robby3467 Hiya Robin. I think you've reached the same conclusions I have. And its the amplification of the loony end of both sides that dominates the agenda and makes it difficult to hear more rational ideas and discussion. I'm definitely coming from left leaning liberal perspective but the whole woke revolution and rush to victimhood is impossible to swallow. I like Brett Wenstein, Jordan Peterson, Lex Fridman, Rebel Wisdom and George Carlin! 😀

[@JR-sd8wh]

First, they came for Alex Jones; then they came for trump. If you think your anti-woke ass is not somewhere in the queue, Sam Harris, you’re living in a dream world

[@Ancor3]

Tell me, how many people have died directly due to lies Sam spread? What is that you say? Zero? Wow, it turns out that all you need to do is not spread a malicious conspiracy theory and motivate people into vigilante justice based on those lies.

[@MrCmon113]

@@Ancor3 It's funny how strongly you assume that the twitter owners are perfect arbiters of truth. Why do we even have a LHC? We can simply ask the twitter CEO about the nature of the cosmos. Besides, Sam is accused of causing the deaths of muslims all the time.

[@The_ScapeGoat]

Chomsky was right about Sam Harris. He religiously worships the state and is terrified of other people's right to disagree with him.

[@za5820]

I am so surprised to see Sam fall down this terrifying rabbit hole. I began studying ethics because of him. It is disheartening.

[@TTK-kc1sd]

SH welcomes differing opinions as long as their cogent. Terrified is a ridiculous characterization.

[@The_ScapeGoat]

@@TTK-kc1sd "cogent" is a matter of opinion. You are using the same verbal game that Harris uses. Harris thinks censorship is a good way to stop people from being radicalized. He is a hypocrite and a coward (not to mention a complete moron).

[@za5820]

@@TTK-kc1sd He's talking about "reeducation" for "radicalized" Trump voters and while I havent heard him really narrow down the list of sins that would get you sent to someone whos going to "correct" your perspective for you, I can infer the types of things he considers a red flag including election skepticism and a bevy of other skepticisms of state/corporate power that should be protected for citizens. I dont care if some small faction of lunatics goes crazy at a protest. Theyre asking for the fucking state to treat its own citizens like they treated Al Qaeda, for Patriot Act provisions (already evil and unconstitutional) to NOW be applied to US. There is no excuse for that. It is absolutely terrifying and if you dont think so, imagine a presidency with an actual fascist and visualize what they do with that power. Its hard for you, im sure because your outlook is hypersocial. You know you will never be on the wrong side of real power because you will sniff it out and lick its boots whereas people like Glenn Greenwald or Snowden etc will always take the other side out of principle. Is that something that will bring you pride when youre 70 years old? "Yep, I can remember when i acquiesced to massive international corporate and state power, giving the ruling class unlimited power because I was hysterical about my neighbors. Feels good."

[@illuddivinus3309]

That thumbnail with that intro music 100% savage lol 😂

[@smarterthanyou2255]

Zombie movie lol

[@sethrichnietzsche]

That is exactly what the common people said, in Germany, some decades ago. So it goes.

[@nlind5515]

Thank you for taking down the pay wall for this full podcast!

[@robby3467]

I disagree with pretty much everything he says on this topic but like you, I appropriate him opening it up and allowing comments.

[@caparzo54]

What pay wall? All the podcasts are available on any podcasting app.

[@ajv336]

@@robby3467 what particular flavour of extremism have you then bought into, if I may?

[@iwillroam]

@@robby3467 do tell...

[@GreylanderTV]

The observation that a BLM protest would have had a much larger and more openly forceful police presence, is just that, an observation. It is as factual as it is simplistic. It results from a direct comparison with BLM protests & response last summer (and I will contend there was far less prior indication that those BLM protests had any likelihood of becoming a riot that would storm the Whitehouse, as compared to available indications that a pro-Trump "stop the steal" rally could become an insurrectionist mob that stormed the Halls of Congress). Making this observation does not mean "race" was the only factor in the disparity or even the most important factor, but it is a factor and it is something that should make people stop and think. And that "race" is a factor does not imply "overt racism" on the part of officers present or leaders making the decisions. Ergo, there is nothing wrong with making this simple observation, in order to make a concise point, in order to make at least some people think a little harder about remaining issues of race. Your desire to call out those in the media making the comparisons seems rather misplaced, with it being you who misunderstood the point of such comparisons. For someone as rational and intelligent as yourself, I would have expected a response more along the lines of: "It is clear that a BLM protest would have drawn a larger and stronger show of force, and this fact alone should give all of us pause, and make us consider the degree to which the lingering effects of past racism, and the remaining present racism, impact our society today. However, the disparity in police response is more almost certainly more due to the pro-Trump nature of the protesters and rioters. Clearly that was (at best) apathy from the very top in regards to providing support from the federal level, though it will be difficult to determine exactly who gave what orders and authorizations, and when."

[@TheSycaman]

How about the national guard on thr steps of the capitol as opposed to how it was on January 6th. That is the actual comparison. When people try equating this act of terrorism to the unnecessary riots in the summer, it is to jusfity thr Capitol riots and terrorism as opposed to condemning it. Black people see you. We know you and your methods already. Just be who we know you try to pretend you aren't. This isn't speaking of the actual peaceful protesters and ignorant or uniformed people too lazy to research or believe their eyes. They will etay ignorant by choice. they are unreachable.

[@TheSycaman]

@@jakepittman3068 Oh please. That's a lazy excuse given to jusfity bad behavior response. Black Lives Matter and Anti-facists are anti police brutality. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that shows your weakness in addressing this subject. You should read more.

[@GreylanderTV]

@@jakepittman3068 One or two podcasts ago, it was the headline that there were 2 "mistakes" people were making about the jan 6 riots. One of those "mistakes" he calls out is people making the point that BLM would have received a different response. Yes? Nuances aside, Sam was making the mistake of interpreting that simple factual observation itself as an excessive call to wokeness. I am generally on board with anti-wokeness (of the Sam Harris variety). But it is not excessively "woke" to point out the disparity between police responses to BLM vs Jan 6. Yes, pro-Trump/anti-Trump, pro-Police/anti-Police plays a roll here. But it is also clear that overt racists enthusiastically and noisily support Trump and he gives them a wink and a nod, figuratively speaking. Race and racism are at play here. And the disparity in police responses SHOULD make people stop and think. Probably around 10% of U.S. population are overt racists, and another 10-20% sympathetic with them, and another 10-20% willing to ally with them out of political expedience. There are clearly a good many people who could stand to think a little harder about race and racism, and pointing out this simple and stark disparity might be the jolt that some of them need. In a sound-bite world, there is nothing overly woke about making this pithy observation about Jan. 6 vs BLM protests.

[@GreylanderTV]

@@TheSycaman I have no idea if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. When you say "you" do you mean me?

[@GreylanderTV]

@BlueJupiterJazz Narrative schmarrative. I give not three shits about any narrative. That "unarmed right-wing dingus" was smashing her way into the House chamber amid a crowd calling for blood. Did you even watch the video? The point of making the short and sweet comparison between police presence/response to BLM outside the whitehouse vs. stop-the-steal outside the capitol, is to make fence-sitters think. It is not a particularly "woke" point to make.

[@EnterHacker]

So. How come no senators were injured? Not even a scratch? Just a question.

[@mojoman2001]

Because the Senators fled and hid while Capitol Police slowed, distracted and diverted the insurrectionists?

[@MawcDrums]

Because nobody was able to find any of them.

[@stephaniekitchen4819]

This conversation was deeply disturbing. First, the explanation of the evolution of groups like Q-anon, was simplistic and disregarded the complexities of human life. He left out so many crucial elements that lead to one's understanding and perspective in the world. The General sounded as if his understanding of American citizen's deep mistrust of government, rejection of the racism of intersectionality and woke-ism, distaste for the influence big corporations have over our domestic and foreign policies, and fear for the economic stability of their children, can all be explained by white men's discomfort about losing their priveledged place in society since women and people of color have gained equal rights. It is a simplistic, inaccurate & shallow explanation, while also being a very thinly vailed left wing bias. Perhaps developed and nurtured in a confirmation bubble? He's completely out of touch, if he thinks "Trump voters or supporters" are a monolithic tribe of wack jobs, that want to overthrow the government, because they question the integrity of current politicians of the left. A group of politicians, by the way, who wasted four years of our time, trying to unseat a duly elected president, who they insisted, was illigitimately elected. And now he wants to "come down hard" on American citizens and "hold them accountable for misinformation"? The constitution be damned! Sounds like someone is ready to keep a list of dissenters. Very scary. Very disappointing.

[@glennmitchell9107]

Why does Harris assume the Capital mob was all one thing? In most things non-Trump, Harris is able to employ discernment and nuance.

[@icemachine79]

Because they were. Nobody would have been there if not for Trump's daily rants about the election for the past few weeks leading up to the insurrection.

[@petec9686]

Exactly. I like Sam. He is brilliant and he is saying a lot that needs to be said, but, he is all ate up with TDS.

[@icemachine79]

@@petec9686 Acknowledging reality isn't TDS.

[@chojinnppp]

@@petec9686 He's been bathing in the TDS firehose for some time and to anyone who has listened to his podcasts for, say, the last five years, it has eroded his objectivity.

[@marksr1907]

Sam appears to have lost the plot since Biden won. Are we now seeing the real Leftist Radical Sam Harris? He seems to have gone full communist with very weak inconsequential overtures to any other perspective.

[@sb_dunk]

Maybe I'm trivializing this, maybe Sam says it (I've not finished the episode yet), but... The issue with the bans on Twitter, Amazon etc is not that they're violating the first amendment, it's that they are monopolies / oligopolies. When the "gay cake" fiasco happened, the argument was that you could always go somewhere else. In this case, the only real cloud computing platforms are AWS and Google Cloud. This is where libertarianism really falls apart in my opinion, you can't say you don't want big government but be fine with companies having this level of market share, control and freedom.

[@RobertWrightOneManCovers]

It's not mystifying at all. The decimation of the middle class has caused contempt for the educated. Lack of the general ability to afford a college degree feeds this, and opportunities are decimated proportionately due to lack of education. People are fucking pissed off and confused exactly who to be pissed off at, and that's where the media comes in, to tell them to be pissed off at each other instead of the real villains. It's not rocket science.

[@gregmattson2238]

the fact that psyop experts are discussing combating the american right in the same way that they are discussing combating al-qaeda - well, suddenly it struck me that the place that we've found ourselves is SO surreal. just so surreal.

[@whatarewedoingouthere]

I think making those comparisons revealed that they’re either disconnected from reality or simply being disingenuous for political reasons. It’s an absolutely absurd and appalling comparison.

[@baileybartley2463]

When you spend your life fighting ISIS/terrorists, you see it everywhere and think the same solution will work

[@gregmattson2238]

@@baileybartley2463 the problem is I think the metaphor holds here. we have a potentially violent insurrection based off of a personality cult that has the potential to derail our democracy here.

[@baileybartley2463]

@@gregmattson2238 "violent" ? Lmao have you seen the 117 days straight of antifa insurgency on their federal statehouse?

[@gregmattson2238]

@@baileybartley2463 if you can't see the difference between run-of-the-mill protests and trying to overthrow the government by armed insurrection - and possibly liquidate one branch of government in the process - then I really fear for your critical thinking skills. And - as far as I know - no antifa group has actually stormed any offices of government so go ahead and enlighten me with independently verifiable sources.

[@religionishipocrisy]

We can no longer call this a "peaceful" transfer of power. That ship has sailed. All we can have now is a successful transfer of power.

[@great-garden-watch]

And a long-awaited transfer of power

[@peterrogers565]

Bloody hell, Sam. What is your standard for when removing someone from social media is warranted? When YOU agree with the assessment? Yeah, you and everyone else. This lack of objective standards is a genuine slippery slope and I'm shocked to see you contributing to it.

[@johnallen8248]

I'm glad the country is not run by these guys. I can practically hear them licking their lips at the prospect of marshall law. Comparing the conservatives of this country to Al Qaeda is as rediculus as labeling them all racist. This show would have made more sense if the guest just started randomly talking about show dogs after every question.

[@EskiLdn]

Whats happened to sam, he seems so unhinged now. He used to be a reasonable voice but now i would rather listen to jimmy dore for a reasonable voice... wtf

[@EskiLdn]

@@michaeljames3944 I know, the tunnel vision on trump has really screwed him up.

[@KrwiomoczBogurodzicy]

Were you born yesterday?

[@Thisisahandle701]

It could be because a lot has happened, and the significance of what has happened is lost of you. A placid response to a dangerous event is not a "reasonable" response.

[@KrwiomoczBogurodzicy]

@@Thisisahandle701, This... Well-put. I tried: "Where you born yesterday?" earlier, but I guess you elaborated on the theme...

[@EskiLdn]

@@Thisisahandle701 The significance of what is happening hasnt been lost on me for over 5 years.

[@cyber6sapien]

I guess none of the intelligence officials have access to the Internet. This would explain why they were so 'caught off guard' by the number of people at the Capitol despite the innumerable amount of chatter online about unpredictable events being planned for January 6th.

[@collinsmcrae]

That's not what he said. He didn't say that they had no idea that there would be mass protesting. They see that all the time. But, they've never actually had it go this far, which could in part explain how they were caught with their pants down. It's called complacency, not racism

[@chrisfox6065]

The point, Sam, is the police presence and police response are not separable. Totally disagree with the notion that the claim about racism in the response is unfounded. As you say, "entirely plausible" and there likely were nefarious reasons for it. It's absolutely a racist issue because the claim isn't about ANTIFA, the claim is about BLM. You can't change the goalposts and argue against what people aren't saying. You seem to be doing a dance here, one which I find surprisingly disingenuous. "Deeply unhelpful"? It's deeply unhelpful to ignore how the preparation or lack thereof was influenced by race.

[@nicknomski8399]

The reason deplatforming is a 'slippery slope' is first, if they were consistent, many more would have to go. Meanwhile many more again, who are merely 'inconvenient' to the powers -- those who spread information, as opposed to misinformation -- would likely be tarred and struck. The Assanges of the world. By that time it's a free-for-all (and that's the least appropriate phrase to use...)

[@chrisose]

If Trump had gotten his way the Section 230 would have been repeal which would let the social media companies be sued for anything on their service. Despite Trump's claims of it being a free speech issue it would have effectively killed all social media overnight as no one in their right mind would want to deal with the legal jeopardy of owning a posting site.

[@stillholding4975]

"a Lionel Messi bicycle kick into the wrong goal"...🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@mikek9297]

As entertaining as it was... I for one believe that's wrong. If anything the rioters finally had the right idea, in fact BLM protesters and antifa should have stormed the fucking Capitol themselves instead of burning shops owned by moms and pops in their own neighborhoods. It has always been the problem - even our dreams are small.

[@xedasxedas]

I would go so far to say he was racist and profundly ignorant of reality.

[@mikek9297]

@@xedasxedas Which is to say... nothing of substance really.

[@xedasxedas]

@@mikek9297 i wished that "wisdom" would had been used to all Trump's dum interventions (specially the tweets).

[@mikek9297]

@@xedasxedas Well, Trumps gone now - out of the office, banned from Twitter and all the other big platforms. You can have your brunch now.

[@paaaaaaaaq]

The problem isn't left or right or Trump. It's the media. It controls how people behave and what stance you will take.

[@randafarhat7635]

As an outside non American observer world citizen who have spent a long time in the Middle East , I can say with no grain of doubt that this conversation is the most realistic educational reading of past and present events that led to the riots of the capitol . Thank you for making this episode available to the public.

[@ramirogallardo3844]

Did they just ignore that this protest was organized mostly on Facebook and Twitter?

[@timothymiddleton6651]

Yes, what they really wanted is to remove a refuge for those who were deplatformed.

[@royalwins2030]

The guy gargling spit really makes this. 👌

[@myjizzureye]

Thats what your dad said.

[@jamesgreenldn]

Looks like he was pepper sprayed

[@deprogramr]

meme squad! we need to start putting that face into the corner of many other pictures... lol

[@criticalmass527]

He looks like theo von

[@Drew_McTygue]

He may have rabies, and that's not his fault. How bout some empathy bruh?

[@stephenknox2346]

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Not sure I have much interest in the wisdom of "how we did things in Iraq and Afghanistan" stories.

[@bentray1908]

Stephen Knox what came next? ..... isis

[@Heisenberg2A]

Made the same comment. These people are delusional.

[@Grkgroup2]

Where was the accountability for Congress, who gets donor money, and then serves on committees that are a clear conflict of interest? Where has the accountability been for all of our leaders?

[@matthewvandeventer3632]

I've been told about how the right is peaceful, and the left is violent. But being raised up in the right I can tell you with no uncertainty that the right is absolutely violent. And what I have experienced from the left, I would say they are not violent.

[@jasoncreamer5747]

People are violent. Has nothing to do with political affiliation.

[@ramirogallardo3844]

My business has literally being threaten by leftists for not agreeing with them (I’m a minority by the way). Is that not a form of violence? Have never experienced anything even remotely similar from a conservative group.

[@Franglaiso]

@@jasoncreamer5747 other than maybe the nazi's with their concentration camps, and the communists with their gulags and re education camps, but other than that political affiliation has nothing to do with it

[@DrunkenAussie76]

@@Franglaiso Humanity itself gave rise to both of those extremes, we are both the problem and the solution.

[@jasoncreamer5747]

@@Franglaiso Yup, been killing each other since we learnt how to throw rocks.

[@luyolomify]

I can tell Sam doesn’t watch football by the misplaced Lionel Messi reference. As prolific a goal scorer Messi is bicycle kicks have never been his specialty. Before anyone attacks me I know the point he was making here is about accuracy.

[@johnboettcher1962]

Way to flex though. 👍

[@reinforcedpenisstem]

Neither are own goals his speciality.

[@luyolomify]

@@reinforcedpenisstem true! 😂

[@Thisisahandle701]

@@reinforcedpenisstem The visual was someone as skilled a goalscorer as Messi, using his skills to score an own goal. The skill of Messi signifies the efficiency with which the "own goal" was being scored by Biden in the simile.

[@HashFace253]

Why?

[@amyanderson4099]

Never let Christianity get it's teeth back...Chrisphor Hitchens

[@anthonyreed480]

You have just murdered the English language and "Chrisphor" is rolling in his grave.

[@skonther0ck]

Oh my god. It’s the it’s vs its that gets me.

[@anthonyreed480]

@@skonther0ck Yeah that physically hurt me too.

[@robby3467]

The woke cult is every bit as dangerous potentially. Same mindset. Difference is the woke cult already has it's teeth firmly embedded.

[@anthonyreed480]

@@robby3467 Are you deliberately misspelling "its" to take the piss at this point?

[@orenji]

Sam, what is happening to you...

[@DrLimbic]

Shockingly Mainstreamed Sam.

[@benjaminlquinlan8702]

Don't be a dick Sam has always been this brilliant

[@definitelynotnick2454]

He's seriously lost, it's sad to see. Same with Yang.

[@jirkazalabak1514]

If I had to describe the police response to the BLM protest/riots, the word I think fits the best is "confused". You can see many instances of policemen kneeling in front of rioters destroying property, while in other cases, they had absolutely no problem with brutalizing peaceful protesters for no reason. I mean, are there no universal guidelines on how to handle this in 2020? Something as simple as looting = arrest and protesting = monitor. I mean, how fucking hard is that? Cops always complain about there being too many rules in the way, but looking at this, I think they might be full of shit on that, lol.

[@TheSycaman]

many instances of policy kneeling? citation needed for more than 3 instances.

[@CT-gc5rt]

Would love to hear their takes on what is happening in Afganistan right niw

[@QuixoticIgnotism]

I actually listen to these on the podcast app. I click in youtube and like the video because i hope the algorithm will suggest Sam Harris to more people. It feels like the most important contribution i make to society.

[@livmilesparanormalromanceb6891]

I agree. I like to leave comments even when I have nothing to say, in hopes that it will boost his videos in the algorithm XD;

[@haroldmatias12]

Good thinking. I do this sometimes but I have started doing it more and more recently.

[@matthewgoodman7588]

Hopefully comments on comments help with that too.

[@Mr.Opinion]

Sam genuinely believed that Trump was going to make some dictatorial stance to try to hang on to power. The Constitution and our institutions build around it are strong. They will not be broken easily. They can however be changed.

[@kevincloar2443]

He tried

[@whatwherethere]

Reading these comments, I realize I have kicked loose from planet Earth also. There are as many people screaming Pinko Commie as Brown Shirt Fascist. It is mind scrambling. How can we all have such different frames of reference. Is the sky blue? I am not sure, especially if there is a money involved in the answer!

[@sprocket8934]

Sam's episode with Tristan Harris a few months back called "welcome to the cult factory" (I think) has all the answers there from what I can tell.

[@EskiLdn]

@@sprocket8934 Sam isnt a voice worth listening to on the matter anymore, sam is gone imo. I think the divide is so strong now because of media and propaganda

[@whatwherethere]

@@sprocket8934 I listened to Tristan and Yuval Harari podcast today. Yuval seems to have the least encumbered view on the power of narrative or story. If there were answers to be had they escaped to my perception. No fault of the storytellers but this is a very difficult situation we find ourselves in.

[@ScottMaclaren]

if you can name me one unbiased MSM source that reaches the majority of americans, ill give you the answer. Otherwise, you already have it

[@baileybartley2463]

Social media companies curating what will make you stay longer, talking to people who tend to agree with your ideas

[@paulsontag9233]

"A Lionel Messi style bicycle kick...into his own goal" !!

[@calbaffetimbi148]

You gotta allow him he is American

[@lautaronis7697]

i was looking for this in the coments, he said Lino Messi hahaha. Good chat anyways, Sam.

[@chukwuemekaigbani7070]

Sam knows Messi cool

[@phantomopera5525]

As a supporter of Athletic de Bilbao, which just beat Barca to win Spain’s Supercup, that made me laugh more than it probably was appropriate.

[@MrSidney9]

Lol quite graphic analogy

[@victorvispetto2367]

The insurrection on the capital has to be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Period! Don't care if that is cliche. That has to be screamed from the mountaintops.

[@MechanicalMooCow]

Should Seattle do the same to all the Antifa and BLM chuds that spent a week larping as a communist utopia after their insurrection of CH?

[@gatherfeather3122]

@@MechanicalMooCow yes sure. How can anyone seriously say differently?

[@effingright3045]

In keeping with the occasional soccer metaphors, this was political "shithousing" which, in soccer, is a player who, away from play, bites, scratches, kicks, punches, talks trash and intentionally pisses-off the man he's marking by playing as dirty as possible. The second the guy being shithoused fights back, in some small way, the shithouser dramatically falls to the ground, rolls around like he was hit in the head with a baseball bat, getting the guy who was shithoused sent off. That's exactly what the left is doing - politically shithousing the right.

[@jasonleonard9776]

Yep. And what will happen in the locker room after the game when the referee isn't there anymore?

[@thereisnosanctuary6184]

Any mob, black or white, even police becomes an increasing swarm. This is witnessed in sporting events, not just politics and protest. Strength AND weakness in numbers.

[@superintelligentapefromthe121]

Sam, keep this same energy when kids are still locked up in cages on the border and we're engaging in a new war during the next administration. Trump was in all ways ill fit to be a diplomat let alone a President but the incoming administration will just be the continuation of the military-industrial complex.

[@stream2watch]

Trump increased military spending. Trump was a cog in the military-industrial complex.

[@superintelligentapefromthe121]

@@stream2watch I didnt claim Trump wasn't.

[@pawnee68]

Wow. Two men who have spent their entire working life in and around the military want to immediately suppress dissent in any form. Even though neither man had a clue how to defeat barefoot freedom fighters, they present as experts to deal with home grown terrorist actions. Ok......I either love Sam or hate him. Never in between. This particular discussion completely misses the mark.

[@JesseKearnsEverydayEveryman]

I feel like I'm 100% in on half of the things Sam says...and then he turns and I find myself pounding the table like he's Sean Hannity. The struggle is real.

[@wolfpax22]

I think its very disturbing to hear people at the top of our military establishment speaking casually about half the country in the same breath as Al Qaeda and ISIS. Even if you believed a dangerous radical movement was what was behind support for Trump it doesn't change that our institutions are supposed to have a completely different relationship to the American people than they are to foreigners in the Middle East (Maybe a great deal of the country feels that there shouldn't be that special loyalty now. If so that's part of our issue. We certainly never had a public debate on it). Seeing them act this way just deflates trust in our institutions even more. Its also troublesome that they have seen all of this as a vindication of the left wing narrative that conservative Americans were secretly racists and Nazis all along and trace the origins of the Trump movement back to the KKK and all that. Not a peep about Alexander Dugin's network which has been seriously radicalizing Americans from the right, or how they became so extreme they gave up on Trump and America itself somewhere in 2018. You know they have to know about that stuff though. Q Anon is really light stuff compared to Duginism, which is what is actually pushing the most extreme elements on the right into the worst places.

[@davidzamarripa6141]

FYI, the biggest rise of unemployment among racial/ethnic groups has been among Asian Americans. Their unemployment rate quadrupled. So no, I don't think they've gotten off lightly from the economic consequences of the pandemic.

[@RTC1655]

Where's the Asian American outrage?

[@johnnyyork3796]

Is TDS curable? How much longer will Sam suffer from it?

[@buckchile614]

TDD is actually worse because the symptoms are verifiable

[@myblueheaven86]

Sam "some light housekeeping" Harris

[@runem5429]

Sam cleans his room

[@smarterthanyou2255]

Ookayy

[@77Avadon77]

Light housekeeping equal simping

[@polymathpark]

@@77Avadon77 many of these podcasts he doesn't do this on. Besides, what else can you do to keep your business running in this format, if you're not going the Patreon route?

[@angusjc16]

Lighthouse keeping

[@hateeternalmaver]

The overarching misassumption is that our modern idols have complete control over each individual of their entire following or fanbase. Hold individuals accountable. Stop generalizing and politicizing everything and anything. Whatever happened to reason - I want it back. ;)

[@tuntejaable]

Well remember Sam Haris generalising Muslim's? This is just the end conclusion of that same idea....

[@SerenitySong6]

True. Except when the individual actively encourages bad behavior in their fanbase.

[@PetriLittlefoot]

Please hire a video editor. You can have some relevant clips and pictures playing throughout your videos. It'd bring your views up by the millions.

[@andybaldman]

He doesn't want 'millions' of views, from the JRE mouthbreathing audience. He knows his audience doesn't come here for video. The audio contains the ideas, and that's what matters.

[@Elcherino123]

Sam is already liberal elite, he doesnt need any neanderthals and cave men watching his streams

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

First Amendment is about government to claim Twitter is subject to first amendment is to claim their app, their service, their servers are not their property and what their platform is used for is a public service. That would require it to be acquired by the government for it to be a true piece of the commons. Newspapers used to allow op-eds to be printed but could still choose what to print and what not to.

[@Ixnatifual]

The first thought that occurred to me on the lack of police presence was that someone chose it in order to give the insurrectionists an easier time succeeding, rather than racism. Perhaps the current investigations will find whether there is merit to that idea.

[@baileybartley2463]

The cops let them in becuase they were unarmed

[@alexkang7360]

59:20 the funniest bit of this podcast by Sam

[@plaguex1]

Sam Harris' logic is dang near entirely one side at this point..

[@useresu301]

Sam and all others that couldn't wait to see Trump gone, should prepare for a world of pain, frustration and sheer astonishment at the Orwellian crazy authoritarian left for the next few yrs to come. p.s. I've no dog in this fight, I don't even live on the American continent.

[@FlatMarssSociety]

Sam expressed his concern on that in another podcast.

[@RTC1655]

Wokestan vs Magastan

[@DennisMoore664]

It's the crazy authoritareian part that's the problem - left or right. When the penulum swings too far to one side it tends not to return to the center on the back-swing.

[@andrewswwgroleau1459]

Trump was introducing new speak, "fake news"... You don't comprehend orwell very well. Can you even give a personal review of 1984? The story is full of pit falls. The greatness is in the essay style, characters, powerful symbolisms... Not the research& science of the fiction.

[@nicholaskoenig3106]

Whomever the presidunce of America is...is merely the hood emblem on the great machine of destruction. 4 more years of BS is guaranteed with our gov't. Its old and rusty and in need of great improvement. An overhaul. A Revolution at LEAST.

[@robynrollins1960]

It's my understanding that the reason there was so much of a military and police presence at the June 1st BLM protest is because of the vandalism from smaller protests leading up to it. I am thankful for the law enforcement presence on June 1st. My heart would have broken if the march would have escalated into violence. I am a fan, a liberal, and an atheist. Thank you Sam.

[@stonehengemaca]

On the facebook and twitter bans.. If my company was hijacked by a group of people or one millionaires family who sort to use my property as they saw fit with zero regard for consequence or respecting my property then I'd kick them out immediately. I wouldn't have waited that long.. Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from consequence. You were all free to say whatever you wanted, now grow up and deal with the consequences.

[@DL-ng8rf]

Does anyone still expect Sam to say "Welcome to the 'Waking Up' podcast"?

[@fergusbyett8088]

I'm just here for the "okaaaayy"

[@DL-ng8rf]

@@fergusbyett8088 Careful now. He might just claim the "okaaaayy" belongs in the Waking Up project and start with something much less expected, like an 'allllrighty then'.

[@gatherfeather3122]

@@DL-ng8rf you give my a much needed smile. Thanks out there!

[@donovan665]

The soldiers using 'lessons' learned in war thinking it's ok to do that with Us citizens?!

[@rocklee5231]

I thought the same thing

[@user-hu3iy9gz5j]

Yeah

[@openup8027]

Except , it’s contemplating a pseudo civil war , so yea , not totally irrelevant

[@user-hu3iy9gz5j]

Harris did not offer enough criticism towards the military guy's almost comicaly expected, downplayed view on force.

[@realityweasel8461]

Right off the bat I can tell that this is going to be a fruitless conversation. Sam’s guest is a guy who served under two of the most notorious war criminals in American history and is proud of that service, and still has the gall to lecture an audience about the dangers of Nazism and “far right radicals.” The status quo that he treats as benign is a fundamentally right-wing one, not realizing that radicalization is the result of institutional failure from within. Like last time, this is going to be another episode of “We just need to trust our institutions again” or “We just need more liberalism,” instead of getting some new ideas about how we might arrange society differently. I really hope Sam opens himself up to understanding the moment in terms of political economy and potential successor ideologies, and not just default back to old, expired solutions to current problems.

[@kylen4701]

Correct. That was pretty much the podcast.

[@ericdanielsbenavidez5867]

Yeah i know, he really needs to acknowledge the Truths about the entire race thing instead of just brushing it off and say we shouldn't be just focusing on that. I agree somewhat, but let's Not deny reality here either. But than he oddly enough gets a bit wild up whenever a liberal politician like Biden uses the term non-whites, which I'm like but wait...you we're just saying we shouldn't focus on racism yet you imply Biden was sort of being racist to White's by saying that. When he was just pointing out the darker tuths to some of all this which alot of people feel needs to be changed because it's an injustice and it's discrimination. And that too makes the right extremists more confidant once they know what they can get away with.

[@realityweasel8461]

No dude, I’m saying Sam is way too into neoliberalism and he doesn’t even know it

[@tarik1845]

The economic and education system has been stripped out of your communities making them desperate and susceptible to conspiracy. It’s not their fault. It’s everyone. And we must all help to fix it

[@shoalin9634]

Giving preferential treatment treatment to all groups except whites isn't preferential treatment exactly, it's exclusionary.