250 v 300 two-stroke enduro bike: which would suit you best?︱Cross Training Enduro

[@crosstrainingenduro]

This video was made back in 2019 and released on Facebook but it seems I forgot to release it on KZbin! The fundamentals are essentially all relevant though. Some KTM fans get annoyed when the TPI system is criticised. As mentioned, the majority of riders are unlikely to hit problems - but a significant minority have hit problems. I remember the Beta fans getting annoyed when I first highlighted the main bearing failures. It was only estimated to occur in 5% of cases, but we felt this was significant enough to bring to the public's attention. It's a similar scenario with the TPI system, although of course KTM is steadily improving the system and we should see less issues with time... Statistically it's very likely you won't have problems, or your riding buddies. But once you look at thousands of TPI bikes sold you can see the pattern emerging - as any honest KTM mechanic will admit. And certainly the TPI specialists we have spoken to are very familiar with the problems!

[@PNWSingleTrack]

I can 100% agree with the fact that the YZ250x is not only a GREAT budget bike, but a great bike all around. Cheap and reliable, and a TON of aftermarket mods to make it do whatever you want it to. Currently got mine set up for single track and light enduro!

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Almost everyone I ride with says they'd buy a YZ300X in a flash if it could be road registered and had the button! Sadly most states here required full road rego.

[@SingleSpeederLife]

Just bought a 2024 Husky TBI te250 on closeout. Has plenty of low end for me, loving the bike!

[@AH-zc6qu]

I was always scared of 2 strokes, I’ve recently just switched from a 2020 exc-f 350 to a 2024 exc 300, wish I changed years ago, first ride out and I’ve never enjoyed riding as much as I did on the new 2 stroke, I now know why 2 smoker guys are so crazy hahaha

[@Jitkoa1]

Interesting! I have also a 350 from 2020 and thinking about a new 250 2 Stroke. Don't know if it is a good choice.

[@AH-zc6qu]

@@Jitkoa1 I’m a novice, I ride like a grandpa and my riding skill has just sat at the same stage for the last 2 years, switched to the exc 300 after riding a mates for about 5 minutes and my riding skill has doubled, I’m a lot more faster and flowier I guess you could say. If you get a chance to test ride one I’d do it, but it’s made a huge difference for me

[@Jitkoa1]

@AH-zc6qu thanks! Unfortunately it is not easy to find a 2025 250 for a test ride. 300 is way more popular!

[@AH-zc6qu]

@@Jitkoa1 yeah everyone I know have 300s also. Could always check with your local dealer if they know of any test ride days, I’m in Australia and they do a lot of them, you might get lucky 👍🏿

[@bmwlane8834]

Yep love the 2 bangers!!!! Still ride and love my 4 stroke though.

[@Jimmy_Watt]

2022 EC250 with TPI. I'm 150lbs, and the bike has never left me needing more power, or searchingfor traction. I have tried, and do enjoy, my buddy's 300s. I ride mostly technical, tight enduro style trails with some very big hills. The 250 is a bit more playful, which I enjoy. Zero TPI issues from day one.

[@jandrews377]

I have just upgraded from a '07 ktm 250 exc to a '17 ktm 300 exc. For me, this was the best bang for buck. I am not interested in the fuel injection stuff and I still get the benefits of a lighter bike that is counterbalanced with electric start. In my mind its diminishing returns after '17, only worth the additional cost for those who are competitive or specifically want a new bike.

[@gpaull2]

Plus you get a back up kick starter. 👍

[@rorypassmore]

I solved this dilemma by getting both. That being said, my 300xc holds traction better over technical terrain (especially in wet conditions) due to its ability to operate at lower rpm than my en250. Don't get me wrong, the 250 is very capable in all terrain. Just requires more rpm and more precise clutch control for a given situation, which means higher likelihood of losing traction. 1 more observation, the 250 guys I know are all 150-175lbs which probably helps (I'm 200lbs)

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Good summary of the key difference in technical terrain!

[@hoppybounce]

The 250 has helped me learn better clutch control. I love it so much I’d never go for a 300

[@desertdrz7618]

As a larger guy and having ridden the gasgas ex250 for over 125hrs I will say the 250 is more fun to ride fast, it struggles in steep uphill rocky sections more than a 300. Every time I hop on my buddy’s te300 I wish I had a 300 lol. But my 250 screams up top and the 300 kind of falls off.

[@DmitriyAdv]

I’ve ridden a 300 and 250 TPIs extensively and demo’d 300 and 250 Beta and Sherco models in the past year or so. I like the 300 KTMs, but I actually like the 250 more in the Beta and Sherco range, vs their 300s. Those have just as much grunt as the TPI 300s, but are smoother and lighter feeling than their 300 Beta/Sherco counterparts.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Our experience too, Dimitriy. The Italian and French 250s have some serious grunt that's on par with the TPI 300s!

[@MarkLange-wi9cr]

I’ve been stuck for awhile now on what 2t enduro style bike I’m going to get, 250 or 300cc?! This video and your comment have 100% steered me in the beta/sherco 250 2t, elec power valve, carby direction.” Many thanks to you both and happy trails 🤟🏼

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Hard to go wrong nowadays, Mark. We think both bikes are probably the pick of the bunch... at least in Australia where they are well priced too. 😊

[@dirklawyer9939]

I own both the 2022 250 and the 300 Sherco SE models, I bought the 250 for my wife, I bought the 300 first and a couple of months later bought the 250. If I had the opportunity to ride the 250 first I might not have bought a 300. A little background, I am a late 60's lazy rider that loves the gnarly so being that I have had Beta 300's, and KTM 250's and 300's (TPI models). My reasoning? IMO the Sherco 250 felt as though it had as much low end grunt as my past 300 models, that said, the Sherco 250 definitely had more low end grunt than any other 250 I had ridden in the past including my buddies hopped up 2020 Husky 250 TE. After 3 years and 180 hours (95% single track) up to 12.5K altitudes on the 300SE with ZERO issues what's to complain about!

[@crosstrainingenduro]

That was our experience too, Dirk. We suspect the electronic power valve is mainly why the Sherco 250 has the same grunt as quite a few 300 models.

[@woodsripper]

Great video. I regularly preach the virtue of the 250 over a 300. I've been riding a 2018 250 XC-W (Mikuni carb dialed-in with a JD Jet Kit) for six years and have tried 300 XC-Ws, 300 XCs, and 300 TEs and I always prefer the powerband of my 250 with the Mikuni. To me, the 300s have too much low end and are too sensitive to throttle position to ride smoothly in rocky and rooted trails. As the video shows, there isn't a big difference on the top end. The 250 just needs a hit of clutch to wake it up. The 250 is a more forgiving and less tiring bike. I have ridden 250 TE and XC-W TPI bikes and I still prefer the low end grunt of the carb, but I would definitely buy a 250 TPI over the 300 TPI. I am hoping the 250 TBI bike is closer to my 250 carb bike and that KTM has some of the kinks worked-out for model year 2025. Otherwise I am either going to keep my 250 carb bike or buy a used '22 or '23 250 TPI. As far as my size and riding ability (for reference), I am a 6'3", 185 lb, 59 year old A-enduro rider. I ride enduros, harescrambles, and the off-road biased dual sports like the Hancock NY Quarry Run and the Monkey-Butt in Wayne County, NY (northeast USA woods).

[@crosstrainingenduro]

A friend bought one of the last carb KTM 250EXC models here in Australia, such a good engine! Everyone in our group is lining up to buy it if he sells lol. In our experience every TPI bike we've ridden is very soft at lower revs. Spending a mozza on mods from TSP will bring it closer to a carb model if needed. But the TBI seems to have resolved all of that. We don't know how reliable it is though but haven't heard bad things on the grapevine yet.

[@MotoBilly-4CNr]

Love my 17 TE250 for hard terrain, my 22 YZ250 with estart for desert, and a recent deal on 24 KTM 300 XC. Love the high revving nature of YZed 250 when in sand washes and desert.

[@jonwoodworker]

I have a carburated 250xc with the yellow spring that I'm still tuning. Right now, I need to feather the clutch on steeper inclines to keep it from stalling under load, top end falls flat, mid range is good. On the trails I normally ride, the bike is perfect. I don't care for the top end power, so I just need to dial in the bottom end. BTW, I train on the DR650 to be better on my dirt bike, lol.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Sounds great!

[@adaycj]

I rode a 300. Called it an "expensive test ride" and decided to buy one because I loved it. I didn't pay attention and thought it was a 250. I got a higher quote for the 250, and asked my friend what he thought. He told me to get a quote on the right bike 😂. For me the 300 was cheaper, and I still owe it. Probably would have loved the 250 also.

[@suzuki06g]

I'm riding a '23 300xc TBI, I like the 300 because on most of my rides I can shift into 3rd or 4th gear and leave it there for a long time. I'm not lazy, I just like the challenge of going too fast or not fast enough in different conditions - but yes, I can be lazy too.

[@JozsaMarton]

also change gearing is always an option. 1 teeth smaller front sprocket, or 2-3 extra teeth back sprocket.

[@sdrown212]

2018 Beta 250 rr re . Love mine

[@arnokonrad7464]

Me too❤

[@shannonlineberry8878]

I had a yz250x and loved it more than my 300xc. The free reving engine with a slightly softer hit off bottom really gave me confidence to push harder

[@gpaull2]

You weren’t doing very gnarly terrain if the lack of a kick starter wasn’t an issue. That’s the type of terrain that has caused all of the YZs to disappear from our hard enduro group. Great bike for everything else.

[@shannonlineberry8878]

The yz250x has a kick starter

[@shannonlineberry8878]

Are you referring to the fx

[@erikbegg7577]

When I got my 300 XC-W, it was a life changing bike for me. Awesome, and still love it. However, on the same 30 mile loops through the forest (lots of technical single track), I am actually faster on my Freeride 250R. Almost feels like I'm cheating.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

I remember feeling the same thing with the Beta Xtrainer, Erik... which is a bit like halfway between a Freeride and the full sized enduro 300s.

[@alangoodrich6590]

Hooked on your vids now. So informative.. I bought a xpro Templar 250 m. Perfect bike for anything.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Great to hear they are useful, Alan!

[@alangoodrich6590]

@@crosstrainingenduro yeah, and funny too.

[@dylanhedges5634]

I've had a 300 tm for years, great bike, but definitely aggressive power, no map switch. I love the hit, it makes it so much fun to ride but definitely tiring. As I'm getting older and riding less looking at trying a 250 as my next bike.

[@philipsmith6152]

After having a 300 for several years, I just got a 250 recently both TPI's,...I much prefer the 250, it rides lighter, is more nimble, and the power difference is negligible, at the top end there is zero difference. Only difference was the $2500 price tag !!

[@BairdBoysAdventures]

I love my YZ250X but at times I have wondered how a 300 would suit me in the rough Idaho singletrack. Although for hare scrambles or GNCC events I can't really see it benefitting me.

[@CoolEyeColorado]

Love my 2021 Husky TE250i

[@rowynmaddocks6731]

Both tbe 250 and 300 are exellent bikes its the rider who must choose i loved my 250 but as i aged i found the 300 more suitable it has more torque and lugs down low especially with my weight the 250 wants to be revved try both and see what works for you

[@cmrocks8629]

In my opinion, if you're not a pro and you're under 180 lbs, a 250 has all the power you need and is easier to ride hard plus it's less tiring.

[@vanakunn]

Have had '07 exc200, '14 exc250, and now '23 beta rr300. The 200 has been the most fun but it was old and broke. Between older ktm250 and beta rr300 haven't considered it a huge difference, only that the 300 feels* heavier, but that may be due the suspension on ktm better, it was easier to ride 250 faster on the comps, but only thing it was lacking electric start (deleted), thus wanted smth w electric for comps. Otherwise the 250 had everything in place for me. Ideally was actually looking for beta 200, but got a deal on 300 being cheaper than the 200 and took it. It's chill to ride but pbly going back to 200/250 at some point (and some better suspension)

[@crosstrainingenduro]

It seems quite a few guys move back to 250s eventually for a few more kicks. 😁

[@jmothers]

Have a Beta 300 and 200 race, I ride and race the 200. Ride the 200 more, very capable bike

[@MarkLange-wi9cr]

I would’ve bought a 200rr over all the other bikes in the same category but after reading reviews from fellow tall riders, sadly that awesome chassis/engine size combination isn’t going to be for me

[@jmothers]

@@MarkLange-wi9cr I'm 6', 210lbs. Basically the same dimensions as the 300, just way lighter. Take one for a ride, you'll change your mind

[@MarkLange-wi9cr]

Everything I read about them makes them stand tall above the rest, until I read about taller riders feeling too big on them. Will definitely throw a leg over one before laying money down on a 250/300.

[@PuteresiCuplu]

I am used to my motocross bike KX450F. I have also tried on enduro trails and fire roads Husqvarna TE300i and I found it let's say...innocent...compared to what I am used to. It has torque, maybe it has a bit of power, but it is not shocking.

[@rztrzt]

Prefer the revvier 250s

[@formallynamed85]

Plotting on a used yz250 of any or no flavor and a 300cc or more big bore kit should be cheap enough and give me a good winter project

[@Turbo_JAM]

2016 Husky TE250 works for me (relatively crap rider). But never tried the 300 version…

[@kingkire1556]

I will admit, I got the 300 due to peer pressure but always smiled more and had way more fun when getting to ride a 250. My favourite at Beta demo days was always the 200 though, so light and revvy.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

I've had a few mates opt for the 200 and they love it!

[@mackames1603]

Only thing I don’t agree with is when you said a 300 is more tiring. To me I found it less tiring because you have all of that low end grunt you don’t have to ride in the powerband nearly as much, you can lug it up hill climbs and always run a gear higher and not worry about stalling, a 250 requires a person to ride it like a 2 stroke. Both are awesome bikes and most would be happy with either one

[@crosstrainingenduro]

True, if you are into good throttle control and tend to avoid wheelspin then the 300 is usually less tiring... and of course why it's the choice for hard enduro riders. The '250 tends to be less tiring' is just a very broad generalisation because most dirt riders tend to be on the throttle and in the higher revs simply for the kicks.

[@BricoleurTV]

How come you don’t mention KTM or any of there derivates? Are they not sold in Australia? I ride a Husky Te250i myself and although most of my riding buddies are on 300’s I’ve never lacked power nor grunt anywhere with the exception of some occasional deep sand riding where I need to be a little more on the edge shifting gears to get out of corners… Over all, the lightness and agility of the 250 is a plus! Thanks for yet another great vid!

[@ethermal1]

he's very anti KTM because 15 years ago he got one with a bad starter. he is the walking example of one burnt, never again. or I'll rider some shitty bikes simply because I had a small problem once with the brand. there is a really good reason when you show up to any off road event the KTM bikes out number every other brand

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Where to start? I don't like the monopoly KTM is forming. Unlike most countries, KTM actually own the national distributorship in Australia themselves and consistently price the bikes higher than the competition simply because they can get away with it. I also think the TPI systems were very poorly set up on the two strokes (at least initially) leading to many problems and aftersales support was often non-existent. This can happen with four strokes too, look how long it took them to finally offer support for all the camshaft failures on the bigger adv bikes. I could go on with a long list but I simply refuse to promote the brand on my channel. KTM gets plenty of exposure on other channels though!

[@crosstrainingenduro]

It wasn't the bad starter. I don't think it's fair to bag a brand due to one poor design feature. And of course that old starter had it's good points with being so easy to access.

[@DavidMoormanSBarCa]

My God I hadn't tuned in in far too long. Stephen Hawking, that was the best. I've missed this.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Stephen Hawing - what a legend. Would love to have seen knobbies on his chair.

[@prezo1975]

Its a shame they dont make the big bore 2strokes these days, ld buy one.

[@GreatGobsOfGoo]

The 150 KTM seems so sick.

[@jamesdenton3692]

150 great RACE bike ,200 BETTER trail bike !!

[@ethermal1]

interesting agree with your points but not your conclusion. The 300 had been far and away the better bike for beginners in my experience as you never have to rev to get over obstacles, only if choose to but have the Rev the 250 in spots beginners are simply to afraid to rev it. your mileage may vary

[@crosstrainingenduro]

This can be the case for some riders, but there are definitely a lot of riders who found the 300 more intimidating when learning. I suspect it may come down to whether a rider focuses on throttle control when learning?

[@miro_s]

I’d tend to agree: a bigger bike at low revs feels tamer, easier to control and less intimidating than a smaller bike at high revs.

[@simongilbert2704]

good bit of fun video ;;

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@damirvilenica571]

Only 300😉🔥🔥

[@YoJoe-s4b]

Nope, 150xcw. Awesome bike.

[@TestaCuore]

Today, 300 all the life

[@seppomontaalasmaaman1339]

6:40 ouch! 😅

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Yep!

[@devilsofthedirt3199]

Either cc is just as good as each other the difference is hardly noticeable

[@crosstrainingenduro]

It's a good point for most riding. We notice the difference in grunt at low revs for hard enduro. But once you are in the mid and top revs there's not that much difference.

[@andli461]

200… 😊😁

[@hoppybounce]

You’re always going on about the TPI reliability, meanwhile all the people out there using them absolutely love it. Yes the power can be a bit softer but I put the TSP medium head on my 250 and it cracks a fat every time I open it up. I’d have to move to a 300 as I get older and my riding skills diminish 😜

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Riders in our group have done the full TSP mods to regain that lost grunt and it does bring the grunt factor closer to carb bikes like the Beta and Sherco... but not quite. Our guys were quite disappointed as their Austrian bikes cost more in the first place, then they spent an extra AUD1000 trying to get the grunt. It's interesting to see the TBI is on par with the carb bikes though out of the crate. Reliability of the TPI? It's certainly improving steadily. Below is our standard statement we have for all the TPI videos... "Some KTM fans get annoyed when the TPI system is criticised. As mentioned, the majority of riders are unlikely to hit problems - but a significant minority have hit problems. I remember the Beta fans getting annoyed when I first highlighted the main bearing failures. It was only estimated to occur in 5% of cases, but we felt this was significant enough to bring to the public's attention. It's a similar scenario with the TPI system, although of course KTM is steadily improving the system and we should see less issues with time... Statistically it's very likely you won't have problems, or your riding buddies. But once you look at thousands of TPI bikes sold you can see the pattern emerging - as any honest KTM mechanic will admit. And certainly the TPI specialists we have spoken to are very familiar with the problems!"

[@hoppybounce]

@@crosstrainingenduro I am definitely supportive of calling out KTM on significant issues. I’ve been looking into ADV bike options to replace my enduro bike and would have jumped straight into an 890 without all the camshaft warnings! When I got the 250TPI I was not worried or annoyed with the power delivery, although my brother did note it lacked the power of the carby version. When it came time to do the top end rebuild myself it was easily worthwhile to do the TSP head upgrade at the same time and the performance difference was evident in the smile factor when riding. But half the fun was just in the satisfaction of doing the rebuild myself while the other half was telling my 300 riding pals that the 250 cracks and makes for a bigger smile than the 300. Same riding buddies that hate my LED headlight. the LED headlight is still the best performance upgrade ever!

[@aidangillett5396]

Much of a muchness. I owned a 300 and a friend bought the 250 and they were the opposite of what was expected. The 250 seemingly had more luggable grunt and my 300 was a right screamer that loved the top end Only thing I can say for certain is there are but a handful of people on this planet that can actually ring out a 300 and keep it there, the rest are all chasing ego or they are unaware that you can infact rev the engine beyond 30% I started with a TTR250 so gutless that even with the lowest gearing available you might not make it up a steep hill in 1st gear, that very much made me overshoot to 650cc torque monsters, down to 300 2 bangers and eventually fast forwarding to the most thrustingly powerful and manly solidifying KTM 990. Only to realize its more fun and rewarding belting the little under dog bikes around regularly than it is waiting for your chance to carve a new canyon via copious application of right wrist It gives clarity to how good you can be with seemingly so little. Hence i'd personally like to try a 150 enduro as I reckon that thing is the ticket these days In a philosophical way though, could it be that owning a 300 is a right of passage? Not towards 'being a man' but instead growing as a man, to realize you can and will have more fun and definitely improve when you step down to the smaller bikes. All whilst spanking those 300's you originally thought were the be-all and end-all and having more fun doing it. However it may be that the path must be explored first before these delicious fruits of knowledge can be gained and appreciated

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Very interesting! So many riders eventually step down to smaller cc bikes with experience, whether it's enduro or dual sport or adventure riding....

[@miro_s]

but why do you assume a bike has to be wrung out and kept there?

[@metlmuncher]

300 Pound blokes enjoy the grunt of the 300.... Lol

[@mikehemens9359]

This video asserts that linear power distributed two strokes is a new thing but that's simply not true.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

No, I never stated these were a new thing. I referred to nasty powerbands 'in the old days'. E.g. Before power valves etc.

[@mikehemens9359]

@@crosstrainingenduro Kawi Susuki Yamaha all had 2 stroke enduro models through the 80s with without any shiddy powerband as you describe. Kdx, Pe and Dt respectively.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Exactly. As I said by 'old days' I'm referring to two strokes that didn't have power valves, CDIs or the raft of improvements since then.

[@MrBobbit666]

2021 reiju mr 300 pro all day every day nothing hits like a carby 2 stroke all these tpi and tbi bikes if you want a mild hitting 2 stroke ya to old

[@hatethetube46]

Any Australians out there with an extra 250 top end kit they’re trying to sell cheap?