Crowder Tries To Defend Himself On Timcast IRL...

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Timcast IRL - Steven Crowder Joins To Discuss StopBigCon.Com Live At 8PM EST
► • Timcast IRL - Steven C...
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[@greggharmston8992]

Crowder’s whole vibe, whatever he talks about, is that he’s constantly trying just a bit too hard to convince you of something

[@bennymountain1]

He sounds like how my previous boss did when he explained why I don't deserve a raise, lmao. Should have started every sentence with "My friend,..."

[@savvytravvi8660]

Like when he's trying to convince you that the joke was funny.

[@ericstaples7220]

He is trying to convince you of something, so that's the reason he has that vibe.

[@gondola1440]

Destiny viewer learns what conviction is circa 2023

[@GlockLee]

@@gondola1440 imagine thinking a grifter has conviction.

[@bobofrog]

Destiny is my favorite blue-haired conservative black woman. I hope the DailyWire reaches out to him soon.

[@Jayv1313]

Same

[@jokersdemise]

I heard it's because DW wanted him to change his shows name. From Louder with Crowder to Acquired by the Wire.

[@Bentbire]

Get this man a drum set

[@Reza-hz1ce]

Clap

[@haydens5321]

I thought you meant DW from Arthur and were referencing Crowder’s voice work on the show

[@Dirty_bubs]

@@haydens5321 that was deep

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@haydens5321 turns out the Brain did not have brains

[@PierreLeTerable]

“Why do you think the midterms happened? Because DW didn’t give me $30 million/year.”

[@haydens5321]

Just another DW bothering Crowder. He truly can’t escape Arthur

[@CulperCast]

No one has proven that this counter existed.

[@zaktilzer5130]

Steven is using the "im a reasonable/fair guy" cadence that almost always means someone is lying.

[@amitabhsharma3916]

He always does that, especially when he is making some moronic extreme argument in his Change My Mind segments. Annoys the shit out of me

[@austinbrown6923]

@@amitabhsharma3916 Truuu

[@Ravenbones]

So someone is supposed to act unreasonable and unfair then? Is this your logic? is your brain full of rot?

[@IndestructibleMandelbrot]

Haha @@austinbrown6923, truuu!

[@bizzzzzzle]

@@amitabhsharma3916 idk, how about just listening to the words. I hate when people use the reasoning “You are being TOO reasonable”

[@DrStrangelove_]

I can't believe how many people Crowder has fooled. He said literally nothing on timcast and still got support to sway back in his favor. Mind numbing.

[@clos3078]

His room temp iq audience still think he is heterosexual.

[@daemok4752]

Has fooled ? Guess we have a clueless person speaking out of his ass here. Whether Crowder spoke out loud about this to start his own thing or because he finds this work model unacceptable or even both, has no effect on this story. To say that he has fooled people when he's the guy with all the receipt and that Daily Wire had to use personal attacks and "friendship" because they could not argue the facts is laughable at the very least. Even Jeremy Boring admitted in his own video while explaining the clauses of the contract that "Crowder told us to go back to the paper and pen to write a decent contract because he wanted nothing to do with these clauses". Not to mention that while you see this 50 million dollars thing which you equate to Crowder being greedy, that's 50M over 4 years effectively 12.5M a year, which is barely more than his production costs which CROWDER WOULD HAVE TO KEEP PAYING. And since Crowder is demonetize on KZbin that's a 25% cut automatically. which means he would be paying out of his money to work for Daily Wire the moment he signed this contract. "well he could just negotiate the terms" when you send a term sheet to someone and they intend to return it blank, there is no reason to negotiate. If DW was truly friend with Crowder as they said, that would be the last kind of term sheet you would send to a "friend", it's a contract you would send to someone you want to destroy. Let's also not forget the friends poaching and attempting to poach Crowder employees before, and right after DW was told to redo the clauses if they wanted to discuss. Next you will try to attack me for being biased I guess ? I'm a big fan of both Daily Wire and Crowder, and I can look at things from a neutral perspective, something this whole bunch of Shitstiny followers can't ever do.

[@TRSCARLET]

@@daemok4752 no shot crowder pays more than 12.5M on production cost

[@DrStrangelove_]

@@daemok4752 you are bias. Just like everyone else on the face of the planet. I am a two-year mug member. Not anymore.... You don't like the terms renegotiate, if that's not possible, walk away. End of conversation.

[@libertas_americana]

No. Crowder is a grifter and is obviously lying about his intentions. But him showing how scummy the Dailywire is the key issue here. I’m surprised the amount of people who have BEN SHAPIRO’s back on this.

[@jollysimp593]

Destinys comparison of him being more like Ben Shapiro and crowder being more Hassan like was the best example I’ve ever heard.

[@JobVanDam]

He said though the left can go much more far left before advertisers start pushing back. Crowder hires people and has a whole show production, Hasan eats soup. Crowder has some opinions that are right wing, you're just not allowed to say. Hasan is, at the very least, a socialist. I don't understand how someone can say the right is more dangerous than the left when the standards of behavior on the left are so friggin low. The left wing commentators can go much more far left and theres more of them. The left wing can riot. There is actual left wing authortarian governments installed in the world but none of them ever get called far left yet every right wing party, especially in the EU, gets called far right.

[@ImortalZeus13]

Pretty valid, but if we’re making real comparisons then Matt Walsh is Hassan - just congealed stupidity. Crowder is more like a Vaush, fake intellectualism and “get and go” mentality on clout.

[@michaelnixon8865]

Anecdotally seems spot on too as far as crossover is concerned. I am a conservative and consume a fair amount of destiny, because I can consume him in multi-hour bites. Hassan I tend to take in smaller doses because I don’t feel like I’m getting a comparable return regarding ratio of time spent consuming to level of intellectual engagement. I feel similarly about the David Pakmans, Kyle Kulinskis, Sam Seders, etc. of the left as well.

[@-Monad-]

@@michaelnixon8865 same. Destiny is the only person on the left I regularly listen to, because he's good faith, has a genuine desire to seek truth, and I understand why he believes what he does despite disagreeing with it.

[@JobVanDam]

@@michaelnixon8865 I watch Destiny here and there but when he does his silly internet drama with Mr McGirl or "famous twitch streamer Tony458 drops manifesto!!111!@@!" I don't watch at all. I don't understand how a reasonable person can watch Hasan. He does alot of that free, easy content of "Hasan reacts to [X]", not even listen to the full clip and then say "Wait, I don't get it..." yeah you don't get it cause you didn't fuckin listen. I realize hes not an intellectual powerhouse but does he have good, thoughtful opinions? Or is he just compelling? I figure to have his audience there is just something about him that makes you want to watch. David Pakman is pure Orange Man Bad, GOP Man Bad content. He live streams Trump rallies so his followers can hate watch it.

[@twd949]

Tim Pool: "I am not a grifter" Tim Pool: Let me analyze this issue for 2 min, and then give no pushback whatsoever, to this guest I can profit from being on good terms with" Tim Pool: "WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME A GRIFTER!!!"

[@Kuroganemk2]

Well, he did lose Kanye by pushing back, he lernin.

[@hdudidi]

@@Kuroganemk2 barely lol kanye is just insane, idk if not agreeing Jews are the nature of all evil is “pushing back”

[@bluepilledalpha]

@@Kuroganemk2 barely. He said one thing 😂 Kanye is just brainwashed. I noticed Tate fans are also almost always Kanye fans lol

[@emanthegman9511]

He Didn't really push back on candace ownens when she was going off on crowder, I don't think he's Grifting here.

[@Wildkoala1]

@@bluepilledalpha never thought of that but just from a glance that’s so true hahahaha

[@just_a_turtle_chad]

"It's not about the money. It's about the racism." - Crowder

[@ericstaples7220]

I heard that before.

[@davidgeorge4756]

Soy

[@ImortalZeus13]

Damn bro that’s a unique perspective

[@thefeverdream]

You don’t know what you just did man…YOUVE ANGERED THE MUG CLUB ARMY! Crowder can do no wrong in the eyes of his fans

[@vorbo01]

"Everyone who disagrees with me is racist"

[@garrymiller3171]

Tim doesn't ask tough questions

[@ericstaples7220]

Like what?

[@wvance0316]

@@ericstaples7220 Tim never really pushed him on any of his possible motivations after he makes a statement. He basically tosses up one of the ideas, lets Steven answer, then went onto the next one. That is why they are accusing Tim of soft balling because that is what soft balling looks like. The only more soft balling would be phrasing the quesion where it is loaded to make the guy look good. Such as asking why is it everyone is saying you aren't the kind of guy to care about the money, is it because of how passionate you are for young and up and coming talent? That is the only way Tim could have soft balled this more into a fluff piece.

[@ericstaples7220]

@@wvance0316 What motivations? The theory that Crowder is stirring up drama to start his own platform? Crowder said he didn't want to do that. Furthermore, Tim spent this episode trying to convince Crowder that he should start his own platform. Tim doesn't think it's bad for Crowder to start a platform, why would he attack him for it? People accusing Tim of soft-balling Crowder are not aware that Tim is in agreement with Crowder on most things being discussed.

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@ericstaples7220 It's possible some of these commenters are just British, where interviews are always designed to be confrontational no matter how the two parties feel about anything.

[@thefeverdream]

@@ericstaples7220 idk how you can’t understand or see that Tims questions were soft balls. Tim never asked him about the call or why Crowder didn’t show longer convo, didn’t ask about Crowders NDAs and why alot of his ex beloved employees have never been back on despite saying he’s bring em on, Tim let Crowder get away with light bs answers. I thought Tim would be a little more brave after confronting Ye but he basically sucked Crowder off

[@Dirty_bubs]

Crowders cadence screams “i practiced this in the mirror all morning”

[@thefeverdream]

His major is I’m theater lol which makes it better

[@tomasboffa9441]

Contract: if you don’t make money you don’t get paid Crowder: pay me anyway lmao??? This is big tech meddling

[@bathcat3759]

This is obvious, but most people don’t want facts or logic. They want emotional appeals and an enemy. It fills them with a sense of purpose, the moral high ground, and satisfies them enough that they don’t actually have to think about things.

[@michaelcovarrubias2685]

This

[@longq5198]

Yes. They know DW is anti Trump. They can get many Trump supporters on their side.

[@TapDat52K]

This is why Louder with Crowder wins. Crowder lacks well thought out humor, makes mediocre points, and chooses easy targets to dunk on for irl debates. He just makes people feel good with narratives and phrases that are baked into a giant tray of nuggies that can emotionally charge his audience to chase whatever he tosses a nugget at.

[@michaelcovarrubias2685]

@@TapDat52K like OP said in this post. Most people don’t really care about logic but their team winning. It’s the same as wanting your baseball team to win but the opposing team is from the same state but different city.

[@bathcat3759]

@@TapDat52K when one makes their identity their political affiliation, regardless of which side you’re on, it’s almost impossible to change their minds or simply show them where they went wrong

[@bkrich]

No respectable business attempting to make long-term money so they can stay around, is not going to blindly give this guy tons of money just for the "larger conservative movement" without terms or contract, that would be business suicide, so I don't blame DW, their goal should be to spread that message across all public platforms as much as possible without being demonetized. Its like being a great music artist and no venue will host you, no one would invest in that no matter how good the artist is.

[@wanded]

if only crowder fans had 5% of the common sense you have

[@captainphoenix]

@@wanded They'd still have zero common sense. This guy claims Crowder's demands were for there to _not even be_ a contract. Come on.

[@KaeBae_]

Exactly. Steven was only pissed at the term sheet because he thought his "friend" Jeremy was going to bend the rules of their business model for him. Steven is so entitled that he thinks that just because he was cool with Jeremy and Ben, he was going to just be able to demand an insane amount of money. Jeremy is a principled businessman who actually seems to conduct business on an even playing ground. I actually have more respect for Jeremy, because from what I've heard, he treats every business proposition the same, and doesn't play the favoritism game.

[@alui5362]

not a usual Destiny viewer, but I'm glad youtube pushed me this. was going crazy trying to understand why everyone was pro crowder everywhere I went. he came across as slick and smarmy, kept shifting the conversation when it came close to straight answers being asked of him, e.g. did he counter-offer, was DW lying about the counter-offer, etc., and Tim and team were soft on him, not pushing hard enough. don't know if it's because they got Tim a gun previously and so they're chummy, but crowder was giving massive snake oil vibes there. I think negotiations failed with DW. I think crowder thought he could use the anonymised term sheet as a gimmick to launch his own platform - no harm to DW since it's anonymised, and he gets to ride off an anonymous villain. BUT I think crowder got somewhat blindsided when DW outed themselves, and went transparent with the term sheet. So now he's doing damage and narrative control because, even though he never meant to hurt DW, the fight is now on.

[@muzman486]

Check out a youtuber by the name of "Actual Justice Warrior", he does a great job in two videos' of breaking down all of this and how he feels Crowder is in the wrong.

[@alui5362]

@@muzman486 thanks! I'll check it out.

[@alui5362]

@@muzman486 subbing now - AJW is spot on. I feel so vindicated now, lol.

[@muzman486]

@@alui5362 It's always good to see all sides of these types of situations but I definitely side with AJW's side after seeing all the evidence.

[@Atlas-Shrugs]

That description of what you think happened is nearly word for word what I've been saying since the start and I've been a crowder fan for years.

[@dinglemccringleberryjr.8632]

take a drink everytime Crowder says "on behalf of big tech" might want to have an ambulance nearby just in case

[@d3adlyz3bra]

Crowder: It's not about the money Counteroffer: 30m/year that his gay friend just happen to mention was the counter to the opening offer

[@dfmrcv862]

Don't forget to mention his gay friend is also Cuban! Don't forget the Cuban part!!!!!!!!

[@d3adlyz3bra]

@@dfmrcv862 his gay cuban friend who is also racist but its ok cuz minority and gay right guys lol

[@queenc2144]

He just wanted to stir up controversy to start his own company. He doesn’t think he’s a wage slave. But he can never make fun of that phrase again. He’s practically talking about seizing the means of production. He should just go on twitch and become a mini Hasan.

[@ericstaples7220]

He hasn't even announced his own platform.

[@philipbaker5334]

no if he was talking about “seizing the means of production” he would be advocating for the government to get involved. Crowder is simply trying to take advantage of anti-establishment conservatives to turn them towards his own program that he would start

[@captainphoenix]

You're joking. He used that phrase as an obvious dig at Jeremy Boreing, who had already used the phrase to characterize their own predatory relationship with smaller creators.

[@queenc2144]

@@philipbaker5334 true but I was just using a phrase that people automatically associate with socialism in the US right now like wage slave. Fox News uses it to own the libs all the time.

[@queenc2144]

@@ericstaples7220 I never said platform. But he certainly did announce his own plan of having creators put out content for money paid by him which is what DW does. They took his email list when his old contract added. He needed those emails. He needed publicity. He got all of it.

[@MrGgabber]

He said multiple times that there was never another offer, then if you notice he very quickly and casually threw in "my agent came in high..."

[@bigdick1267]

Therw was never an offer back from DW. Crowder sent an offer sheet back with a higher payout.....but said the penalty clauses would have to go. Dw said its a non starter, they have to stay in.

[@thefeverdream]

@@bigdick1267 Crowders off sheet was pretty much a BS sheet and let everyone know he’s not taking the whole thing serious at all. The dude really expected 120million? Knowing damn well that DW in its entirety couldn’t afford that and that Crowder couldn’t bring in that sort of revenue.

[@aprileatsguilty]

@@bigdick1267 Jeremy said that he was expecting Crowder to red line those terms he didn’t like but Crowder didn’t do it and asked DW to draw up a totally new one at the same time asking for 30 mil a year.

[@bigdick1267]

@@aprileatsguilty right because, crowder said those were a non starter,, and dw said they are staying in.

[@Migalouch]

Jeremy and Shapiro admitted they never submitted another offer to Crowder. They said they were willing to go to 70, even 100 million, Crowder asked for 120. Where was their "red-lining and negotiating" then? They wanted their terms, with their penalties. It was a VERY predatory contract that asked Crowder to assume all of the risk, with none of the reward. Some people hate RekietaLaw's explanation, but he is right. DW was looking to purchase the product that Crowder was creating. DW was NOT going to be creating it (production and cost passed to Crowder) in any format. The risks with Crowder are clear, everyone knows KZbin hates him, but they wanted to have his product while passing his risks to him. That isn't how it works. If I buy a bike from you and the city says no more bike lanes, I don't go asking you for 20% of my money back. They also wanted to OWN everything he made while under contract in perpetuity with Jeremy stating they are owed it because "We created it" but admits he isn't actually creating it, they're just buying it from Crowder and hosting it.

[@patmacrotch5611]

He is lying... he asked for 140mil... he starts to admit it then IMMEADIATELY just starts rambling about something else.

[@aprileatsguilty]

Exactly. And other fans claim DW is lying by saying that.

[@Astrussy]

Time stamp?

[@grantlauzon5237]

Shapiro tweeted out a timeline of the events.

[@jeffwells641]

He said Candace Owens at one point got 140, he said he was asking for 30. 16:00

[@aprileatsguilty]

@@Astrussy 30:45 and 30:51

[@ethakis]

Crowder could’ve just counter offered 50 mil with no terms, that would’ve made his case seem way better faith.

[@wanded]

true lol

[@canopeaz]

Or he even could have alluded a little to the money part without giving a number, and said "dont know if that will cut it...but here is my real issue", and then given them specific edits with redlining, and adding paragraphs of his own, etc.

[@WeShareTheSameAffliction]

THIS.

[@michealball1896]

He tried, but they refused to negotiate on the penalties, and even then, 12mil a year for his entire production is terrible.

[@mattturner5750]

@@michealball1896 When did he try? How do you try to counter an offer? You just do it. DW says he flatly refused. Are you suggesting this is false?

[@patmacrotch5611]

Funny how "its not about the money" but they spend the majority of the discussion talking about how its not enough money.

[@nikkovalidor4890]

shouldve been about the drive about the power

[@jeffwells641]

That's the thing Destiny has pointed out before: ANY offer is reasonable as long as the money is enough. Maybe it takes 50 dollars, maybe it takes 500 million dollars. If they aren't willing to pay the fee you want to agree to the terms, then they need to change the terms. If you can't agree on a fee + terms that both sides find reasonable, then you walk away with no contract.

[@Silverwidows]

He would definitely become more KZbin and sponsor friendly for a billion dollars

[@libertas_americana]

Crowder “its not about the money” and Shapiro “culture warrior” lol

[@libertas_americana]

Crowder “its not about the money” and Shapiro “culture warrior” lol

[@afluffywhitekitty8589]

Uugh he dodged the counter offer question. No pushback.

[@mcbean1]

We know why, right

[@brianpaul3648]

You expect pushback on Timcast? Lol

[@ericstaples7220]

He said he counteroffered.

[@halfbloodprincess989]

What do you expect? It's Tim Pool, that guy couldn't ask a hard question to save his live...

[@bigdick1267]

He said he counteriffered and asked for the penalties to be removed, DW said they had to stay in.

[@stevenheart-tongue2977]

As a conservative, Steven crowder pissed me off so much here. Holy shit.

[@Nettamorphosis]

“Is it Hey Arthur or Arthur?” What the hell 😂

[@seangriffin5524]

Ben I feel like is at least genuine in his belief wether you disagree or not but crowder just always feels disingenuous. It’s the way he talks that you know he’s TRYING to sound sincere. It’s like the uncanny valley of speech.

[@mach10mitch4]

Crowders a grifter

[@Justin-is4jy]

All media personalities are grifters dude

[@Justin-is4jy]

Everyone you watch is a grifter they deceive you with their videos no one makes videos to not make money to not fool audiences.

[@asw654]

@@Justin-is4jy Some grifters are worse than others.

[@robbirose7032]

@@Justin-is4jy not true

[@polpottopg]

I used to be a big fan but ive slowly realised this too

[@kmiddagh]

If DW offered him $1 for 5 years I'd still back DW. Why? Because they alone decide how much money they want to pay someone voluntarily and if someone finds their offer offensive or not good enough, they can decline. This is how the world works. Crowder is mad because they don't follow his "business model" which to my knowledge hasn't been successfully tried. He seems to suggest that a company that relies on the revenue gained from social media related to him eat the loss if he stops generating revenue from those sources. That is a recipe for failure for DW if they agreed to do that. He basically wants them to risk their existance to pay him guaranteed money.

[@Justin-is4jy]

Look up rekieta law he swayed me to crowders side somehow. He did 2 videos reviewing crowder videos and dw video and giving his breakdown of it

[@jwiLx]

You must be only watching Candace Owens or some shit...

[@asw654]

@@Justin-is4jy Rekieta constantly talked about how bad the contract was though. None of that addresses the OP's point: regardless of how bad the contract was, the way Crowder responded was childish and transparent to anyone aside from his followers. Crowder has the option to walk away. He has the option to renegotiate. The fact that he made one flimsy attempt to negotiate by sending his dad (his agent) to make a counter offer of 120m, without any details (no redlining), and then went ahead and devised a plan to take down Daily Wire because he was so salty about his bad deal with The Blaze... He registered the domain name "stop big con" before making a call to Jeremy, which makes it unlikely he actually wanted to negotiate in good faith. Frankly, among the conservatuber lawyers, Viva's the only one who even tries to sound objective and telling his Crowder-loving audience (despite the backlash vs him) the way things are. Barnes is the worst one though, worse than Rekieta. He's not trying to be objective. He's trying to position himself as a lawyer for Crowder. His defense of Crowder even on his temper tantrum was laughable, but really good for a lawyer... essentially saying, "Everyone knows creative talent have massive egos and easily take offense, so DW should have adjusted the way they deal with him!" That's great man, wow. And yet most creative talent I'm seeing don't throw tantrums on social media about every other bad contract (of which there are are many), not even the other DW hosts. If I ever act like a baby and jettison my reputation, I'll want Barnes on my PR team. He has a naive audience.

[@kmiddagh]

@@Justin-is4jy They can offer anything or nothing and you can accept it or tell them to fuck off. All this extra shit crowder is doing is him being butt hurt over someone not valuing him however he values himself. Get over it. Lol.

[@kmiddagh]

@@Justin-is4jy @user-by7ve7fz2s They can offer anything or nothing and you can accept it or tell them to fuck off. All this extra shit crowder is doing is him being butt hurt over someone not valuing him however he values himself. Get over it. Lol.

[@Vic2point0]

But they didn't say he had to be monetized on those specific platforms; they said the *revenue* had to be there, or they'd have 90 days to figure out a way to replace it. That's completely reasonable. And as for not wanting to be banned from these platforms, if you care more about the message than the money, you should *share* that desire to stay on as many platforms as you can!

[@dexaphobia8085]

It’s not reasonable when you realize they’re also buying all of crowders licenses, social media content, backlog of videos and merchandise. They want everything crowder has, complete creative control and they still put the burden of financial risk on him.

[@michealball1896]

They are acquiring the monetization rights, so yes, those have to be monetized. YT has regularly demonotized him for not breaking any rules they admitted this themselves. The contract also forces ad reads so they would still make money off these platforms on top of the increased subs. They undercut is worth by maybe around half and then gave themselves an easy way to further decrease what they have to pay effectively, killing the brand as production cost is also apart of the 50m. All while waving the banner of fighting back against big tech censorship. These are no different then the predatory contract we have seen on YT and in Hollywood. The only benefit these contracts offer to new creators is a little bit of exposure and money at the cost of the future of their brand.

[@Vic2point0]

@@michealball1896 "They are acquiring the monetization rights, so yes, those have to be monetized." The second doesn't follow from the first there. Again, the terms sheet said very clearly that the fee would only be reduced if the revenue couldn't be replaced within 90 days. Crowder says there's another way to get that revenue, so if he were sure about that, he could've accepted the terms and simply replaced the revenue in accordance with his master plan. "The contract also forces ad reads" No contract forces anything. The terms were there for Crowder to either accept or reject. And as we all know, he rejected them. "They undercut is worth by maybe around half and then gave themselves an easy way to further decrease what they have to pay effectively," I agree they opened with a low-ball offer (which is customary in these types of negotiations), but the rest is perfectly on the level. You *should* include a clause whereby if the person you're paying to do a certain job and bring in a certain revenue doesn't do it, you pay less. That's just called not being an idiot, quite frankly. "The only benefit these contracts offer to new creators is a little bit of exposure and money at the cost of the future of their brand." It is at no cost to the future of their brand; Crowder was wrong (repeatedly) on that. The terms sheet and Jeremy's response video made it very clear that the only thing DW would own after the contract was up was what they themselves produced.

[@mattturner5750]

@@Vic2point0 Yes. I believe Crowder expected the DW to just eat it and let him spout off to avoid the press. They've not denied much. Going through the offer point by point. Crowder sticking up for the little guy is laughable.

[@Vic2point0]

@@mattturner5750 Exactly.

[@fruitypeebils]

The way he tries to sound sincere when saying “that’s what mug club is trying to do.” When just the term mug club is the most grifter thing you could possibly call your community

[@TooZooted]

It’s pretty obvious Crowder either wanted a contract he could abuse or none at all. His unironic position is that his contractual obligations should be paid regardless of if he’s bringing in any revenue for DW.

[@ericstaples7220]

He's bringing in revenue regardless. Destiny made a good comparison to athletic contracts. Athletes don't want clauses that penalize them everytime they make a penalty in a game or whatever.

[@thefeverdream]

@@ericstaples7220 if an Athlete gets cancelled for saying something dumb he loses his contract. DW didn’t want Crowder destroying relationships with platforms because than DW couldn’t make their money back on that platform. Common sense

[@KaeBae_]

@@ericstaples7220 But athletes sign contracts that penalize them for the behavior that they conduct, both on and off the field. So if Crowder was involved in some sort of scandal that caused social media platforms to permanently ban him, that would be a violation of the contract. Yes, we can argue that these platforms have too much leeway and are sometimes ambiguous about their banning systems, but that's just the nature of the beast when you're in this type of industry.

[@TooZooted]

@@ericstaples7220 Your comparison is fundamentally incorrect because athletes DO have these clauses built into their contracts both during and outside of competition. For examples check out the payment disputes between the NBA and Ben Simmons & Kyrie Irving over the past couple years regarding missed games & misconduct outside of basketball. Obviously even if he gets ad embargo'd he will still be making revenue. The issue is that he would be making much LESS revenue. By your logic, he could lose half of his revenue due to ad boycots and DW would still have to pay him his full salary despite eating a 50% loss in revenue. That's like paying someone for an full 8 hour work shift even if they choose to leave 4 hours early.

[@nokiot9]

“This business isn’t about money to me” is like saying “swimming isn’t about water to me”.

[@pumpUdotcom]

Bad analogy lmao

[@drewjames2237]

Its about influence not money listen to the conversation without bias.

[@dfmrcv862]

@@drewjames2237 then why is his entire objection that DW wouldn't pay the difference should someone they hire get demonetized? If it wasn't about the money, Crowder would be happy DW would still be hosting demonetized individuals, or would maybe argue that DW should put money into some KZbin competition or SOMETHING other than just arguing "by not paying us the difference when we lose money they help big tech".

[@callum6224]

Crowder is on a wild adderall bender

[@thefeverdream]

100% took double his dosage and really thought his weird recording bit would destroy DW. Biggest rule on adderal is to not shoot the bullet until you’re on your comedown down and know it still sounds like a decent idea. But knowing how narcissistic Crowder is he probably can’t see himself ever being in the wrong

[@talk-supersix-seven6021]

He regularly abuses adderall. He admitted he’s prescribed it for “really bad adhd” on Joe rogan’s podcast many years ago. Look up the Christmas and Halloween special. I swear to god watch the election special he’s literally motor mouthing and tripping over his own words at times. Dude got a script from dr feel good and clearly takes it for the wired feeling and euphoria. On special episodes he clearly triple stacks his dose to get a rush and a high as you can see he is basically tweaking and his mouth is going a million miles a minute.

[@thefeverdream]

@@talk-supersix-seven6021 lmao if you know you know. That mofo probably doesn’t take a day off and his doctor probably lets him get away with the mg increase request despite it looking like he’s abusing

[@fdsafdsafreds5420]

“Tim Pool is a bot.” - Kanye West.

[@SplashTasty]

On god

[@Halbmond]

I haven’t seen the terms but I doubt those percentage penalties are based on the original 50mil but rather, on what’s left after penalties. There’s no way they add up to more than 100%

[@Xfghstryhfghfg]

110%

[@Halbmond]

@@Xfghstryhfghfg Yes 110% are more than 100%

[@drewjames2237]

You know what I like about destiny...he tries to see it from their view and acknowledges the opposition's success without melting down. Much respect. Like he doesn't like open carrying and thinks it's but he acknowledged that it's my right and that I have a right to do it. It makes me wanna see his view and listen to it.

[@INSTAFLIXMEDIA]

It's so funny to see Tim continuously telling Candace that Crowder was not there to defend himself at that time and he's not going to take sides yet now he's continuously questioning the daily wire now but the daily wire isn't present to defend themselves. He's just a wannabe who came to prominence after Joe Rogan agreed to invite him in his podcast and started bad mouthing about Rogan when he cancelled his dates.

[@HaHa-lx9yo]

Honestly Tim Pool was awesome before. He did excellent work. Now he’s just sitting inside and peddling End if the world shit

[@ericstaples7220]

Aside from the questioning the contract, which DW posted themselves, I don't think Tim was questioning them about anything.

[@wanded]

it's the poll tim made 2 polls during the stream and they both favored crowder, tim decides how he acts based on the polls, if the majority were against crowder he would have been more aggressive

[@Rievoldt]

I've been watching this Factorio shit for months and still have no idea what's going on except it's in space or something

[@NoBoDY.England]

Factorio not shit just Destiny not that good at the game, only joking I've no idea but as I understand it, two or three more stages of deep space exploration and build a rocket then his done 2 weeks or less? Hopefully, unless his does the secret ending. But hang in there!

[@theluchakabuto5206]

Yeah it’s hard to understand what’s going on when you are watching another person playing a game you’ve never played. I’m in the same boat haha

[@crunchie09]

I Never trust Crowder when he speaks quietly and wears boy clothes

[@IdwarfRedwoods]

Steven is either dishonest or clearly doesn’t know how negotiating works. ABSOLUTELY YES, things are put into a contract with the intent of them being taken out. It’s called a bargaining chip

[@IsomerSoma]

He's dishonest.

[@jonathanemerling1071]

Whatever the truth is in this situation, I don’t buy his claim that he’s “doing this for the little guy”. I would love to hear from Sven Computer, Not Gay Jared, Fundip, Owen Benjamin, etc. about what goes on behind the scenes at LWC. He has to be a nightmare to work for. And when his show comes back, if he loses Dave Landau I won’t be watching.

[@TeecueDee]

Owen got fired because he wrote a song called "that n word stole my bike" using the actual n word & tried to pass it off as comedy.

[@jonathanemerling1071]

Yikes! I did not know that. I’ll give Crowder that one.

[@henryskalitz9094]

He never said it was about the money because then he would lose any morale high ground he is trying to get. Weird that his agent still countered offered if it was never about the money tho

[@ericstaples7220]

Was it weird? You can change the rules of a contract in a counter-offer. That's what he did.

[@henryskalitz9094]

@@ericstaples7220 Yea but he also asked for more money, which Steven says he has no idea about but DW confirmed they asked for more. Weird that he would say he has no idea if his agent coutnered a $50mill contract for more money. I feel that's something I would know

[@steamavila1818]

people have to be braindead not to see clearly that all this dude wants is to launch his own platform, so the only way to do this in his mind is with a big drama, so what better drama than to try to make your competition look bad.

[@ericstaples7220]

It would be clearer if he actually said he wanted to launch his own platform.

[@KaeBae_]

Do you think that is the reason why he hasn't announced it yet? Maybe he is trying to see how well his grift worked by seeing the amount of email addresses signed up to "stop big con." 😂

[@PomelloRBLX]

Crowder is living proof of how easily conservatives can be manipulated with simple words such as “censorship”.

[@drewjames2237]

Well that's because conservatives get censored more then Democrats. I can't make a KZbin video on how to safely take apart a firearm yet Democrats can parade in sex gear in front of children and they're fine

[@drewjames2237]

You people would censor a ham sandwich if it hurt your feelings

[@PomelloRBLX]

@@drewjames2237 Not sure what you mean by “you people”. You’re assuming I’m a lefty I’m guessing?

[@smolderingtitan]

Crowder has a problem with dishonesty.

[@hickspaced2963]

Seizing the means of production with Steven crowder

[@asw654]

Steven Crowder fights for the little man. And by little man, I mean him, alone.

[@rotunda7263]

Gaslighter claiming to be gaslighted. Ignore the chronological sequence of events.

[@JDmix123]

23:35 Destiny had me dying 😂😂😂

[@komlat253]

People get burned out probably because entertainment is very competitive and hard .it's probably barely about the contracts , considering the shit contracts the average person signs on to

[@firstbradley3281]

Exactly entertainment is very competitive you have people who are working side jobs while pursuing entertainment, and these people are some of the most competitive people I’ve had people steal my designs and seen other designers have their design stolen and that’s just in a tech field.

[@johnniiee146]

OMFG they sound like they are making a F'ing infomercial how the hell do ppl not see right thru this???

[@JustAReminder]

I think Steven’s “I really don’t want to” is a tell

[@cguevara671]

Crowder complaining that he would have had to spend thousands of dollars to get a lawyer to go over a contract that would lock in MILLIONS of dollars for himself, is like an unemployed person complaining that they got a really good job lined up, but they draw the line at having to buy a pair of work boots.

[@6Churches]

I really don't get it. What is "big tech" if not what the free market does until it gets regulated?

[@Ravenbones]

Someone still lives in LaLa Land.

[@Xfghstryhfghfg]

FREE MARKET WITH MONEY FROM GOVERNMENT?

[@6Churches]

@@Xfghstryhfghfg Yeah. Perhaps you'e heard of a form of governance called, hmm, democracy? Through democratic representation the people can have city-state-nation-wide policies put in place that benefit civilisaiton. Only - these public works require contractors to achieve - and so government money flows to businesses within the free market

[@neosho3953]

It came across to me that Steven would've completely steamrolled the conversation if it wasn't for Tim slowing his roll to ask questions.

[@KingFillip]

"its not about the money"..."it cost money for production"...

[@lucidberrypro]

An email list is like a security for a content creator when they get booted off a pre-owned platform. I usually hear people talk about it in the context of "You get banned from this platform, and all your fans/subscribers are on there. Decades of work get deleted and now you have to start from zero, possibly on another website, including building up your audience. If your fans don't know where to find you, you're screwed." Your email list is supposed to help you retain the audience you've built up from those platforms. You keep them in the loop with what you're working on, and if one of your pre-owned platforms gets nuked, you can direct them to the next place where they can find your content. Preferably, your own website that you made yourself.

[@wanded]

assuming people, especially younger people who are crowders audience, bother checking their emails

[@KaeBae_]

I wonder how successful the email list will be to retain his supporters from The Blaze to whatever new platform he decides to use. From what I've heard, Mug Club was already a disaster and I saw members complaining about how inconsistent Crowder was with his content; essentially saying that paying for the membership wasn't that much of an upgrade than just watching him regularly because he is flaky with his upload schedule and doesn't provide exclusive content or pre-show updates for the members so they basically find out if there's an issue with everyone else.

[@lucidberrypro]

@@KaeBae_ Oof 😓

[@wanded]

@@KaeBae_ highly doubt it'll be successful after he started this war, crowder himself knew that would be the case which is why he started all of this, to rile up more mugclub subs, but people with money to spend are the older more successful people and such people are more likely to agree with dw's notion that if you earn/work less than you get less, they're the kind of people least susceptible to his emotional manipulations

[@ZChoate]

When analyzing the moves of this Crowder situation you're admittedly willing to jump out onto multiple limbs with assumptions that are "conspiratorial" because "you think they mostly explain his actions".... But the Balenciaga campaign was just "kinda weird" I'll die on this bloody hill.

[@saulmendez2276]

The claims are completely different 😂 one is man greedy and wants to make his own thing and shit on his competition over a pedo ring is signaling to all other pedos and elites because theirs a secret goverment pedo ring

[@pauliePwalnuts]

Jack Nicholson decided he wanted less up front but a chunk of box office and MERCHANDISE for batman. That's why he was doing all those commercials for toys.

[@darbycorphealth1577]

I think my agent made a Counter Offer? Then blah blah blah blah blah … Notice how he completely deflects from Luke’s question. “Did you make a counter offer?”

[@chillbluesnake7085]

"Right leaning people are so prone to confrontation" and they all went to the Echo Chamber podcast with no pushbaack whatsoever.

[@chrislastname1994]

Destiny you absolutely can and should get on with Tim to expose the nonsense they are spewing about this situation.

[@bh1935]

It’s not about the money! 30 seconds later: there offer was too little!

[@SeruraRenge11]

From how the last Sitch and Adam stream went, it really feels like it's just about money.

[@Vic2point0]

How bout, friends don't bail on you as a friend because they disagree with an offer you made? Or, friends don't just assume the worst about you when a deal you're offering seems unfair to them?

[@bigdick1267]

Or friends don't try and steal your employees? Or friends don't put in penalties, knowing that you say stuff that is probably going to have you paying those penalties.

[@ericstaples7220]

Or stop pretending they're friends in order to manipulate viewers? This was a business deal

[@bigdick1267]

@@ericstaples7220 they both say they were friends. It was stupid forcthe DW to make an offer dependent on big tech money, when crowder gets banned from big tech on the regular. Dude literally is popular for making non big tech friendly programming, yet gets an offer based on being totally big tech friendly? Wtf?

[@b1gr0d]

Crowder: I don’t care about money. What’s an infinity pool? I’ve never heard of this. I’m poor like the regular man. It’s not about the money for me. 😂

[@cap00ify]

The sanctimonious tone is so exhausting. Also Tim Pool mentions Fox News at the top - of all the possible gigs that won't be one - he burned that bridge a while ago (Google it - it's amusing).

[@iannordin5250]

How the fuck does it cost that much money to do what Stephan does? I know General contractors with 15 employees who pay out the ass for materials and insurance who do pretty well for themselves despite "only" bringing in 400k a year. I just don't buy it.

[@acetorres8787]

Crowder the worst

[@Gibbs316]

I lean more right but I like how cringe he becomes and starts using leftist terms when he’s down bad. I’m triggered because they’re gaslighting me lol

[@ericstaples7220]

These are leftist terms?

[@Gibbs316]

@@ericstaples7220 definitely are thing more young/leftist people say. Like that movie Bodies, Bodies, Bodies recently they weren’t making fun of hardcore conservatives and the dialogue was full of “triggers and gaslighting and trauma.”

[@canopeaz]

Getting an *_initial_* offer, which on top of being initial was also *_negotiable_* , and you thinking the initial offer was shitty, is not some excuse for the moral and ethical breach of *_planning_* to *_secretly_* record a friend of more than 10 years in order to selectively release it later. People who value principle understand this.

[@RardTangler]

If political content creators were music artists,Crowder would be Nickleback.

[@jasonwhite6463]

Tim is incapable of pressing conservatives on their BS. Why? Bcuz he is also a conservative and... a grifter.

[@matrixmdog]

Just a grifter has nothing to do with being Conservative

[@fifiadan]

Yeah cos grifters don’t exist on the left right

[@spsawyer22]

I wouldn't call Tim a grifter. He doesn't really have an ideology to be honest.

[@matrixmdog]

@@spsawyer22 you don't have to have an ideology to be a grifter

[@Astrussy]

@@matrixmdog he’s a grifter because he brings on popular conservatives and doesn’t do anything to upset them or their fans so he can increase his audience’s size.

[@darkrillen]

This reminds me of professor x and magneto Same fight, different strategy

[@emanthegman9511]

Exactly, this is why it baffled me when crowder comes out accusing DW of being in bed with "Big Tech" when everything they put out is contrary to that.

[@Totherphoenix]

sure but it's a much cringier cause lmfao

[@elcangridelanime]

More like Capt. America vs Iron man.

[@kaijuhunter7458]

Except Professor X and Magneto are trying to save lives and protect people they care about, while this is conservative babies whining about money

[@AUstudios]

Lol bring up a fictional holocaust survivor in you comparison to right wingers squawking over contracts

[@-Monad-]

Silly me for assuming that Factorio was over when you reach outer space 😑 he will never stop playing this game

[@faizanqaiser4027]

Please someone tell me what he is doing in the background. What is that game? is it a game?

[@t2rmartin]

im here for the factorio

[@nakanoyuko]

underrated comment

[@andrewbaskett8581]

What are rumble’s ad rates co pared to KZbin…

[@sameash3153]

I've never gotten an ad while watching

[@redeyedbuggers]

Someone help me out here… What is an “email list” & why is it so important?

[@pjhaze]

He never answered, did you ask for $30 million a year? He’s such a hero

[@wanded]

he didn't answer about the nature of the nda as well same with what his replacement business plan is he didn't answer anything lmao

[@misarthim6538]

@@wanded There are so many of these things. For example, he's trying to make it sound like DW tried to say that all those 50mil would go to Crowder's pocket. But that's not true. Boering in his video says explicitly that Crowder will not get all this money, that it will have to cover production cost, pay employees etc. Almost every single claim Crowder made is a lie or misrepresentation. It's disgusting.

[@wanded]

@@misarthim6538 yeah crowder outed himself as a snake and i'm insulting snakes here what i didn't expect though was his fans, so called "conservatives", to abandon common sense and facts because of their feelings for crowder, they're acting exactly like liberals

[@captainphoenix]

Is it relevant, when there are terms separate to the dollar amount that you actually care about and are non-starters? Do non-starters not exist?

[@KaeBae_]

My favorite part was when he said that DW was gaslighting and projecting, all while he was gaslighting and projecting lol. Poor, poor Steven.

[@OGunsalus]

Once he signs wit DW wouldnt they technically be producers of all his shows during the 4-6 years hes under contract? Wouldnt that mean everyrhing made during that time would be owned by DW forever? I get the stuff made previously dont count in that but that would mean it wouldnt be a lie to say they own everything forever.

[@RandomPerson-eh7mn]

Well yea, that’s been established, the content that DW pays crowder to make stays with DW. Everything outside that they are renting from him in a way It’s like when someone commissions a painting, yes the artist made it but it’s owned by the buyer,

[@saulmendez2276]

No they would give crowder no equipment or staff only for the special episode/ movie that is required of him to make under the contract but his normal show he would receive no help and will be allowed to monetize it once his contract is up

[@drdyna]

Oh the fun business model of using big tech to rail against big tech. I have no idea why this could be bumpy.

[@arenaceus]

I was listening to this while I worked. Had to turn it off around the 24 minute mark because I feared listening to adult content over the WiFi. They sure like Crowder.

[@Ghost-jy9hk]

Been amusing looking at crowder’s own comment section with his own fans saying they lost respect for him

[@chrishernandez8504]

I've been on few channels and a lot of his fans seem to back Crowder there some push back but the overwhelming majority back him on every channel I been on from the center right to the far right

[@andylofi4448]

Which isn’t happening 😂

[@Justin-is4jy]

Either the algorithms are insane at pushing what we want to see or you are lying. I see alot of anti dw shit in comment sections

[@darkrillen]

Crowder tards are acting like the people they claim to hate. That's coming from a right leaning person

[@jwiLx]

You made this shit up. Not only have I not seen that hardly, but ive seen more "Man I used to back the DW, but now .... ionno" comments by far.

[@cowyeti21]

Wouldn’t a 20% penalty across all platforms be a 20% penalty overall? I don’t think you can just add them and say it’s a 110% penalty

[@Pyryp2]

Yes.

[@firstbradley3281]

Why did Crowder interrupt the conversation asking for the viewer count?

[@nokiot9]

And to be fair a benelli m4 is one of the most expensive tube fed shotguns you can buy.

[@Disconnected.Reality]

Bro destiny No shit he doesnt mean Europe like did you really not understand what he meant

[@jameslayton1560]

What did you understand it to mean?

[@daniellukombo5413]

@@jameslayton1560 it's a fact that being poor in the USA means that you are privileged by world wide standards. Most countries are not rich. Most countries are more like Venezuela than Germany in terms of economics.

[@jameslayton1560]

@@daniellukombo5413 I see. Still seems a weird statement to make, comparing the richest country in the world to countries outside the top 20 or whatever.

[@Disconnected.Reality]

@@jameslayton1560 It's not weird at all

[@ItsRyanRoyce]

Ngl, I’ve been an avid Crowder fan since 2015 but I haven’t watched his streams in some months now. Watching this and Crowder’s two videos describing what this is about, I still don’t entirely understand why this is all a big deal.

[@crisjr6478]

They did an entire separate episode with the opposite side argument with Candace.

[@westonsmith7772]

Not really..I could personally tell Tim was leaning towards Crowder's side during that segment..and he proved that much after he brought Crowder on. He obviously has a thing for Crowder....he could have and should have played devils advocate with Crowder far more than he did..and he even read a superchat that said he was giving Crowder a softball interview, which was quite nice. Tim loves him some Crowder.

[@crisjr6478]

@@westonsmith7772 maybe he does but he treated Candace with the same respect the problem is Candace was the person supposedly representing the DW when it was easy to see she doesn't know anything about the situation except how it personally made her feel.

[@joshuadarling2107]

What game is destiny playing?

[@szefkuba]

"we didn't really want u" - daily wire

[@assassin-tq4if]

If the daily wire wants shared risk tho it doesn't really make since that they get all the profit. Like destiny said these people are looking for a flat rate, but if you have clauses that pull money from you that are risks of the business it doesn't really seem like what they're offering is a secure deal like what ud want to look for.

[@billnye5511]

That security rate would be significantly lower and looked at like it was a scam.

[@libertas_americana]

Yeah because “friends” hide that shit in their contracts they give each other all the time lol

[@Nero-sj6pm]

@@libertas_americana I dont understand how was that clause hidden?

[@ericstaples7220]

It sounds like Crowder just doesn't want clauses that make creators afraid to question things that get you censored, like saying Kyle Rittenhouse defended himself or whatever.

[@libertas_americana]

@@Nero-sj6pm this is a Hollywood predatory contract that preys on people too naive that sign. Same thing happens in music industry which oddly, Shapiro’s religion also preys on people. Especially in the black community with rap music. They offer big money up front but hoping you dont read and understand what contract says.

[@onZampie]

I bet the smell from Tim Pools beanie would make you pass out

[@ericstaples7220]

Why?

[@onZampie]

@@ericstaples7220 because he wears it 24/7 and it probably smells like death

[@bidtles]

I was very curious to hear what destiny thought about the change my mind. It sounded way high to me but I guess not

[@ChuckieWan]

We have found the Mr. Girl of the right

[@areichental]

Based

[@kasuo7039]

Is he a pedo too?

[@sameash3153]

Unhinged

[@fergusdenoon1255]

I get his perspective though, companies like Apple and especially Garmin make all these expensive highly intricate tools and completely take over the market leaving absolutely no room for people like me selling my macaroni and string sundials, people supporting the big teck really disgust me when I have perfectly good macaroni watches to sell that don't have any of that silly button stuff and apps and swipey screens and connection thingies. keep fighting the good fight guys, I never tire of you telling people to stop using KZbin and to never buy Apple products or to stop using your apple products to watch youtube, and stop using Facebook, and all these things you keep doing to make our lives better by trying to get your voice completely removed from everyday people lives, best of luck in your fight to completely destroy your entire platform.

[@wit3215]

holy hell what happened to factorio? I played it a few years ago and now it looks totally mental

[@JassZoigel]

I believe it's a mod pack

[@larryallen4902]

14:03 it’s not millions of dollars a year for “legal.”

[@CantyBloke]

"These people are children" Good take Destiny.

[@Smayor75]

Finally someone who notices the “you were the one that changed the narrative by leaking the recorded phone call”!!! Thank you Destiny. Edit: please notice the “we did not make a counter offer… hmmm my agent… hmmm but the terms were…” He so quickly jumped from what he was going to say regarding his agent and a counter proposal (the 120M that was done).