Hamaguchi On FF7 Rebirth: Cloud & Tifa's Dynamic, New Story Moments & Fan Feedback On the Ending

[@kevindie]

*_17:13_* *_Everyone has this all wrong; at the end of the game, Cloud is the ONLY reliable narrator. He is the only one, other than Aerith, who sees the rift in the sky, which we now know has been there all along. It’s the perfect plot twist to pull on OG fans, because they think they know better than everyone else who Cloud Strife is. You want to talk about meta, THAT’S META._*

[@dalegleneagles5072]

Good to see you again! I'll agree with you here too. The OG was built around the "twist"/reveal that it was Cloud that killed Sephiroth. But this time we come in knowing that - *and* Cloud states it up front at the beginning of Remake. He says to himself "You've done this before, you can do it again" in the battle against Lifeclinger. He not only "remembers" Zack, he fights alongside him now, so that's taken on less importance to the narrative. This is indeed how you meta and twist the story to produce a surprise this time. Plus every time Jenova effs with Cloud (and Rufus and Tseng) it requires a black robe (someone WITH Jenova cells - or a black whisper) to project the image, and there's the telltale blue/purple flecks. None present at the end. If I recall, it was Jenova that appeared as the dead, not that it was projecting images remotely.

[@kevindie]

@@dalegleneagles5072 *_My backup has arrived! 🤣 Good to see you, too!_* *_Yes, through the dream date with Aerith and Sephiroth’s dialogue with him afterward, Cloud becomes aware of true reality (in regards to the planet, not himself) and understands how to manipulate the different worlds within the lifestream. This is first confirmed to the player when he creates a new world at the alter to save Aerith._*

[@dalegleneagles5072]

@@kevindie my only hesitation there is that Cloud does say the tear in the sky is a trick, so yes, I think he has the *ability* to understand, but needs some "training"

[@kevindie]

@@dalegleneagles5072 *_But how does he know it’s a trick? He has information the player doesn’t possess yet, perhaps?_*

[@dalegleneagles5072]

@@kevindie That would be great, although I suspect there may be an ommission/translation issue at play here. Is it just the main world's tear that's a trick? Or are they all? Keeping in mind the terrier world has it too, and Cloud never arrives there. And does that mean he thinks Aerith is tricking him in her dream world too? Like I say, something seems missing/inconsistent.

[@mrmasj]

I have seen several people break the music down and there are no tunes from Jenovas theme at all in the ending, creepy yes! But no Jenova music mixed in.

[@FailroadExpress]

Yes! Thank you. That music represents the life stream or the Cetra. Do you know the name of the song? I’ve been looking for it to do a breakdown of the final scenes.

[@deyama2012]

Not if you're looking for direct Jenova's theme quotes, but it's suspiciously similar to the song called "Mother Is Waiting", which plays when Sephiroth is reading Gast's notes to Cloud (starting with words "The specimen, found in strata..."), which then transforms into Jenova's theme

[@CuriousCorduroy]

Thanks. I couldn’t remember the exact details on the music breakdown and what motifs were involved.

[@dalegleneagles5072]

Sounds like it's just a variant of the opening theme, which they tend to use when indicating the start of a new journey. Which regardless of the truth, seems fitting.

[@henrymontes3626]

I really hope hamaguchi does ff17 or 18 and have him make his own story and characters

[@FollowNRBH]

10:39 I guess this dynamic also makes sense in the OG when Cloud lost his mind at the Temple of the Ancients and started beating Aerith up, Tifa then ran in and knocked him out cold.

[@marcellwebb3799]

Because of the playa haters ball clip, you just got a like, a subscribe, and a new fan!😊😂😂😂

[@TheSteelers4190]

Just a reminder that the Aerith we see at the end of the game says good bye to the plane leaving. Jenova-ith wouldn't do that. I think it's more her consciousness being attached to cloud like we see in AC.

[@drumjod]

Makes me wonder if some scenes are of Aerith in an alternate but connected world or her 'spirit' attached to Cloud and other scenes are Jenova's manipulation. Idk though, it might overcomplicate things if that was the case, but hell, they basically already do that with Sephiroth where there's all these different versions of him that aren't really him and it's hard to know which version it really is...

[@drumjod]

I feel like I hear the word gaslighting used incorrectly a lot, so here's the definition. Gaslighting is a type of psychological manipulation that causes a person to question their own reality, memories, or perceptions. The goal of gaslighting is to gain power and control over the victim. I think Bugenhagen just doesn't believe Tifa and the party because he's so stuck in his own beliefs. I've heard others say Bugenhagen was gaslighting Red XIII about his parents, but we never actually see Bugenhagen lying to Red about that, so I feel like the word gaslighting is a pretty big exaggeration of Bugenhagen and his intentions. Sephiroth and Jenova on the other hand? They are actually gaslighting.

[@annabel6038]

Very true, the word gaslight comes from an old film called Gaslight where a husband convinces his wife that she's losing her mind in order to steal her inheritance. Nowadays people use 'gaslight' to mean 'disagree' or any kind of contradiction.

[@drumjod]

@@annabel6038 Glad I'm not the only one noticing this trend.

[@Dracobyte]

Thanks for this FF 7 update!

[@Wesker47584]

You know what I think could/should happen during the section when Cloud gets his memories back he has to be the one who kills the fake Aerith to get rid of the Jenova cells in his system

[@Stephiroth008]

I love the ending. I definitely had to sit on it, digest, and look up other perspectives. When you really evaluate it and also have played the original, I think you can really get some good ideas as to what they are guiding towards and how crazy part 3 is gonna get. There is so much intentionally in that ending and overall game. Someone on max’s stream, I don’t think he himself said it but was repeating what someone commented was that rebirth was a marriage proposal to FF7 fans and I love how much care they put into this.

[@jase276]

If it's a marriage proposal, I want a divorce

[@FollowNRBH]

@@jase276 Jesus! Calm down Moonbyul

[@Anverto90]

I'm pretty sure that the mind prison in Part 3 will be Cloud and Tifa being swallowed by the 2 baby Weapons and them fusing like they did during the end of Rebirth.

[@RayEros]

Just got an update for FF7 Rebirth version 1.050. Gonna play the game to see the updates.

[@Darthfleezus]

Bs

[@Darthfleezus]

That's the pro update that came out last month.

[@RayEros]

@@Darthfleezus i have been away for a month so im late to the party.

[@lajazziamacklin8418]

I just LOVE watching your channel whenever it comes to Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, especially when you talk about my favorite FFVII antagonist, Sephiroth! Thanks so much for this FFVII update! 16:35 -17:02 EXACTLY! My instincts told me that is NOT OUR AERITH. Even the music is off, playing Jenova's THEME, especially Aerith herself, when she turned her head very slowly toward the camera and gave us that creepy smile that was VERY similar to the one that Sephiroth made back in Chapter 1: Fall of a Hero. I even sensed something was VERY off and I also think, too, that Jenova is messing with Cloud's head, impersonating as Aerith. Remember Sephiroth's quote: They say she's a monster. That she can peer inside you, into the very depths of your soul. That she can become those you hate. Those you fear. Those you love. I think that message that Sephiroth told us might be VERY important when Part 3 comes up. PS: I had the EXACT SAME thoughts about that 'Aerith' sitting at the lake when I saw the cutscene. I was like...wait a minute! How is Aerith still ALIVE?! Did Sephiroth JUST kill her? She should be DEAD! I agree with you. Jenova and Sephiroth should get rewards for Best Performance and Best Acting! 🏆🏆🥇🥇

[@karthisplays]

There are lots of us who were on this bus 6 months ago. These are not new theories

[@Silverfish-qv8ig]

Unreliable narrators only work when there is a strong foundation of truth. If Cloud is genuinely making this all up, it's a very poor piece of writing and completely at odds with the OG. The magic of the OG was that Cloud WASNT crazy. Sephiroth used a few small inconsistencies to drive him over the edge, but everything he remembered was grounded in truth.

[@Silverfish-qv8ig]

Why on earth would she say goodbye in a sad way as Cloud flies off, if she were Jenova?! Also, it's pronounced 'Gainsburra' - it's an English name.

[@CuriousCorduroy]

It’s possible that the final shot is actually Aerith saying goodbye as the party flies away. She may be unaware of what Jenova is doing, if it actually is Jenova impersonating her. Wont know anything for sure until part 3.

[@ComeInToMadness]

It being Jenova Aerith during the tiny bronco scene would actually completely ruin the scene for me. I dont like the timeline and fate ghosts stuff and it being Lifestream Aerith's final farewell to cloud is the only thing that saves FFR2's ending for me

[@Jenova867]

Totally disagree but okay

[@JKSmith-qs2ii]

I’m not sure all the additions made to the original like including cissnei and stuff was Nojima adding in stuff he wanted in the original. I’m pretty sure cissnei existed in nobodies minds when the original FFVII came out.

[@talmanes4589]

Hard to say really. It depends on what kind of writer Nojima is. Sometimes authors have mountains of backstories and ideas that may or may not ever see the light of day. So things like CIssnei could have been buried deep in his notes somewhere, or not. I think it's impossible to know short of Nojima telling us himself. I tend to agree with you that probably not all the additions were things that just didn't make the cut in OG, but knowing what was and wasn't, is an impossible task.

[@shawnzinator]

Corduroy, why would Jenova Aerith bother saying goodbye to the the party as they fly away in a longing loving way as if she misses them already to herself when they can’t even hear her? It makes no sense for Jenova to say goodbye like that other than to possibly trick the audience in a very lazy writing kind of way no?

[@CuriousCorduroy]

It’s possible that the final shot of the game is the real Aerith seeing the party off as they fly away. She may not be aware of what Jenova is doing. That’s why I love it though. The twist could be so many things. Can’t fully judge it until we play the final part.

[@shawnzinator]

@ solid response, definitely fascinating where this will go!

[@joshz2491]

Everyone keeps assuming that the ending scene is all LS Aerith, but I think that the direction is too specific and dialogue with Cloud too contradictory. Only the very last shot is LS Aerith, and maybe when she checks on Tifa and Red, everything else is Cloud in denial or Jenova micking Aerith. It's too casual and even robotic not to be

[@Noushauga]

​@@CuriousCorduroy yep that's the theory I've been seeing for months. Lots of music nerds have pointed out the jenova ost playing when "aerith" shows up at the end.

[@Kitth3n]

I don’t know exactly how Jenova mimicry is supposed to work, but it could be that Jenovaerith isn’t actually aware that she’s part of Jenova. Maybe the copy thinks that it is Aerith? But that raises the question of how Jenova or Sephiroth would even effectively use such a thing.

[@Uhoh_itsAshley]

I think that it was actually Aerith who started grounding Cloud in Remake when he would have headaches. She would grab his hand and calm him down. She started doing this on the first day they met right after they save the children in the scrap yard. In Remake, when Cloud is attacking the neighbor, Tifa runs to the neighbor and doesn’t even acknowledge Cloud who is breathing heavily and shaking. When he has his headaches she never grabbed his hand. It’s when she saw Aerith grab his hand and calm him down at the Gold Saucer, I noticed she started grabbing his hand or laying a hand on his back as well. I think she saw Aerith doing it and saw that it worked well, so she began to mimic this as well. Which is great for Cloud he needs all the people he can get to ground him rn. I’m not a shipper or anything I actually believe Cloud loves both the girls probably equally. I just played Rebirth 8 times back to back all the way through, Even Chadleys Chores, so I know the game super well now.

[@shawnzinator]

If the version of Aerith that says goodbye before credits roll is Jenova then that would be dumb and bad writing

[@TheMusikalChristian]

Sephiroth is already messing with Cloud mind. So why would this be bad writing?

[@shawnzinator]

@ it takes away from the purity of the story and is depressing in a bad gross way using a beloved iconic character such as Aerith to roll credits in such a disingenuous way saying goodbye rolling credits like that as Jenova is wack. Not saying having Jenova pretend to be a version of Aerith is a bad idea just not in that way saying goodbye as Jenova rolling credits while saying goodbye in loving way it seems wack and a cheap way to trick the audience

[@Nekomania]

@@shawnzinator i mean thats kinda literally what Jenova does though. It's this cosmic horror that landed on the planet and used the faces of those it killed to trick the cetra so it could take over more people. The ending is amazingly written in a number of ways.

[@shawnzinator]

@ you don’t get what I’m saying lol, there is no reason for Jenova to be saying goodbye to the characters while they’re flying away in the tiny bronco (they can’t hear her saying goodbye anyway) other than saying it to herself bc she misses them, Jenova wouldn’t do that bc she doesn’t care about them unless it is Jenova and she’s saying it to trick just the audience which is dumb and cheap, get what I’m saying?

[@jesse1381]

Who's gonna tell him what happens at the Northern Crater?

[@13cloudstrife13]

Trisha is funny but snl sucks lol I didn't laugh once the acting is so bad