Turned into DISASTER in seconds! | Royal Air Freight 988

[@DavidReed-sv9rb]

Back in 1989 I was flying a Cessna 402C for PBA in New Bedford MA. Late one night, with nine state construction workers onboard, we flew into New Bedford from Martha’s Vineyard in fog and rain. When I selected full flaps, there was a loud bang and the plane began rolling left, despite putting full right aileron in. What had happened was that the flap cable broke, so the left flap went full up while the right flap went to full down. The first thing I did was undo what I had just done- I put the flap handle up. The right flap began retracting, the roll stopped around 60 degrees and became normal when both flaps were finally retracted. Still in the clouds, I got back over on the localizer and landed flaps up. One of the closest times I came to buying it.

[@MrTruckerf]

Excellent story!

[@markorr7035]

You probably woulda saved this plane.

[@dexterpoindexter3583]

"... closest times I came to buying it." A good thing you hadn't prepaid, then. 😅

[@Airpaycheck]

If you move a switch and something bad happens, un-move the switch.

[@alvinseaside7683]

😂

[@alvinseaside7683]

Totally legit.

[@duskintheforest584]

Why didn't they retract flaps if that's what caused it to bank? Obviously one flap was stuck.

[@lxxsxxx7845]

@Airpaycheck Absolutely. If you do something and it has adverse effect on the plane, undo it and reassess. One of the basic rules of piloting.

[@XRP747E]

It's a mystery that it wasn't a reflex action. Sad.

[@nick39]

I was based in ORD during this time frame. We were flying to Lacrosse,WI. The cloud layer was 1000’ up to FL230. We were in light to moderate icing. We had a bleed 1 (engine1) overtemp. This was a triple chime red alert emergency. We performed the QRH procedure which basically instructed us to isolate the bleed and land at the nearest airport. Engine 2 bleed is now carrying the entire weight of the anti-ice requirements. Within a matter of minutes… it became overloaded… another triple chime red alert emergency. We had a jumpseater (who lived in Lacrosse) suggest we should continue to our original destination. I told him to be quiet with that kind of ridiculous advice. We diverted to Madison which was 15 miles north of us. After declaring the emergency and landing, we did a post flight walk around. I was floored when I saw the amount of ice accumulation on the wings, tail, fuselage but especially the engine inlets!!! The first engine to lose bleed air was almost completely covered over! There was probably a 2’ diameter opening left! We were minutes away from that engine flaming out! For you new aviators: have a healthy respect for icing, windshear/ down drafts and thunderstorms!

[@akiko009]

I've seen ice build up from nothing to an inch in-between glances. Scary. Fortunately the anti-ice magic did its thing, but I had my excuse to call out moderate icing to ATC for the first and only time in my life (so far). That level of icing was not forecast. Anyhow, it reminded me to be even more careful about planning flights in icing conditions.

[@CuriousPilot90]

Interesting, and good to report for other aircraft in the area. I had a similar incident, we were aware of the potential for icing but it was on in an instant. We climbed through it to clearer air but still uncomfortable.

[@stevegregory2867]

Perhaps if they had left anti icing on things might have been different and managed to land.

[@CuriousPilot90]

I think that is one of the main issues here. If ice was the issue, this should have helped.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

@@CuriousPilot90 I'll be honest, I do not understand why they required the performance on that stage of the flight... did they need it to be able to set up a one click TOGA on the autopilot??? I mean, with standard flaps, they should have been at very low thrust settings during those landing maneuvers.... even if they did need some thrust to do the circling part.

[@bwalker4194]

I think that would quality as moderate to severe in my book.

[@elskid206]

I'm no pilot. So I don't have a voice. But, as a man who's been in stressful situations, I have to agree with you. Clearly the flaps initiated the problem. I could not believe that they didn't undo the flaps immediately. Take it off; if the plane leveled out, put it back on. If the plane has a problem again, now you have a problem, and you KNOW what it is.

[@35mmShowdown]

My father used to fly air-ambulance in the 70’s- took off O’hare once on a particularly cold and icy day, and discovered after level off for cruise that icing had frozen their elevator trim tabs; he was forced to fly manually, and with significant yoke forces, but since they were headed south the Captain monitoring the flight was confident the icing would clear soon enough on its own. Those trim tabs were still frozen when they touched down in Miami, in April. Altitude and ice can form one hell of a bond…

[@emmyjj5612]

I never cease to be amazed that pilots can stay so focused and determined all the way to the very end. My last words would be expletives. *you've done an excellent job incorporating all of the feedback you've received - well done! I still think you need to mention your channel's name, or have it appear on screen, even if it's at the end.

[@GBEdmonds-j1i]

They've tried to eliminate circle approachs nowadays as they have been killers for decades and switching of deicing was a terrible move. RIP Boys;(

[@av84ever]

Circling to runway 34 at PWK is normal ops even when VMC due to airspace constraints. O'Hare International is just a few miles to the south and runway 34 does not have an instrument approach.

[@aafjeyakubu5124]

There is actually a new RNAV approach to 34. Much better than the circle if you can do it.

[@emergencylowmaneuvering7350]

Some pilots dont know how to do steep turns at all. The get all confused. Bad pilots.

[@av84ever]

@@aafjeyakubu5124 I don’t see an approach to runway 34 but there is one to runway 30 now. A circle from the runway 30 approach to runway 34 is much preferred over the circle from a runway 16 approach (along with getting rid of the nose-to-nose, opposite direction operations as well).

[@jerryromon6622]

@@aafjeyakubu5124

[@daveblevins3322]

If you have a *gut feeling* that the workplace is a bit shady, trust the gut. I've left two operators because of this. That was many years ago, but it still rings true today 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@markorr7035]

Do you think the company had anything to do with it? Seems like the plane was in excellent condition right until this accident

[@XRPcop]

I don't see ice causing the flaps to "stick". They're hydraulically driven to overcome EXTREME aerodynamic forces of the plane as they extend, so thinking that ice made them not work isn't very plausible.

[@HsquaredH2]

@@XRPcop , in a “fixed horizontal stabilizer” aircraft, use of flaps after moderate or severe ice encounter and if there is any doubt about how clear the tail is from ice, should be limited to the absolute minimum and a significantly higher speed should be selected because putting in flaps will run the risk of a Tail plane stall which is extremely difficult to recover from since its opposite from a wing stall and its not the first reaction Pilots have when they think they are stalled!!!

[@XRPcop]

@user-kb8gh5jv9t That's not my argument. I'm saying it's doubtful the flaps were "frozen stuck", as speculated in the video.

[@melynn66]

I've actually had flaps freeze on me in a Beechjet 400XP once. They are electrically actuated and hydraulic operated. We diverted for maintenance to a nearby airport that worked on them and ended up getting some things replaced.

[@XRPcop]

@melynn66 Just by reading the comment, I can tell "ice" wasn't the ONLY cause, though...as claimed in this video. 😊

[@DuvalDashCams]

Imagine it as a metal door, take the entire door and weld it to the frame, then your arm pushes the door normally doesn't stand a chance opening that same door... Obviously this is just an analogy but similar concept.. when the gaps between the wing and other moving surfaces gets filled and covered in ice, even those hydraulics will max out

[@srb1855]

The sequence of events described here reminds me of the ATR crashes due to icing. In those cases the autopilot disengaged suddenly with the flaps extended and then the aircraft rolled uncontrollably until it finally crashed.

[@dayniasykora7213]

I was thinking the same thing - sounds like an ATR type incident. It has a Roselawn feel.

[@randall39]

Yes. The same type of scenario. I can’t imagine how scary it must be to suddenly not have control over your plane, and then to know you’re going down. Chilling 😮😢

[@robertholliday6391]

The second they applied full flaps I thought WHY?. The second they turned off bleed air, I thought WHY? I fly gliders and C172. I learned not to use the flaps with icing accumulation. I would certainly not turn off bleed air anti icing. They were high enough. WHY would they need more power? They were at a good altitude.

[@regionalflyer]

As someone who has been flying for 25 years, ice is subsequent only to severe flight control malfunctions (Alaska 261), or an uncontained fire in terms of seriousness... Well, it's first if you're an ATR pilot. But my point still stands.

[@josephalberta1145]

We were flying a Bellanca Viking out of an Islands grass strip. Got up over the trees and one of the flap cables snapped causing the spring to pull it up to the fully retracted position. We raised the other flap right away but that kind of wakes you up at low altitude.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

very often, in severe icing, often causes turbulence which will often cause one the spoilers to be forced upwards, this is the result of vortices formed by air destabilizing over the wing creating massive suction in a small area... also, such a destabilization will often be caused by a rapid change in the angle of attack (which always happens when you lower the flaps) explaining the sequence starting the event... a very classic and known pattern

[@realvanman1]

We had the advantage of knowing what was going to happen ahead of time, but (as a non-pilot) I freaked out when they turned off deicing having just descended through and observed icing. When the control issues happen in these incidents (again, as a non-pilot) my first reaction is to immediately return the settings to the last position before the issue. So return to level flight and return flaps to the previous settings. Declare an emergency and evaluate the situation.

[@peterj5751]

It’s isn’t without precedent for a build up of ice to be controllable until the flaps are extended, thus changing the airflow. It seems the most likely explanation. The nasty thing about ice is that it isn’t there any more when investigators turn up on the scene. In any event, a tragic outcome.

[@flemmingstelling8079]

Good video - left over ice on tailplane could also affect it. Perhaps a quick withdrawal of flaps back to earlier position. could have had positive outcome as it only began once the flap handle was moved.

[@margarita8442]

pilot error= ice is not nice

[@horsepowerchef]

When you move something and immediately start having control issues, PUT IT BACK!

[@waynemeredith4287]

To my thinking if I do something like going to full flaps and the plane immediately starts doing something it shouldn’t, I would bring the flaps back up to where they were. Do a go around and work the problem.

[@MiaMichele9696]

@15:20 Excellent theory, extremely plausible ✈️ 🛫 ✈️

[@oldtimer2192]

Sounds like a brilliant theory, why did the report mention nothing about this? Seems entirely reasonable as a probable cause to me!

[@safa4786]

Graphics are awesome..where do you get them from!?

[@TC.C]

Is it that hard for plane manufacturers to have the anti ice come on and off automatically? Thanks for the video

[@bf3and4highlights83]

So here is what I have learned about flying from these vids. 1: Never ever ever fly when there is/was/will be bad weather. Never try to beat it or wait for it to leave. If it ain't perfect, don't go up. 2: Figure out all fuel requirements then throw them out and fill the tanks to the max. Maybe even throw a small jerry can in the back. 3: Never ever for any reason or under any type of circumstance fly with your entire family.

[@lbowsk]

1. Planes have been successfully flying in bad weather for well over 50 yrs. Imagine if the airlines just didn’t op in “bad weather”. 2. A jerry can. That's about ten seconds of fuel. And who's going to add it to what tank, exactly?

[@jmax8692]

😂😂😂 please never become a pilot.

[@bf3and4highlights83]

@@lbowsk a facetious remark

[@josieann5031]

This is not a car we're talking about. The suggestion of a jerry can is ridiculous.

[@AviationNut]

If you would wait for perfect weather than it would take you a week or 2 just to fly across the USA. If you fill the tanks full for a short flight than the weight of that fuel alone would make the aircraft much heavier and cause to burn a lot more fuel, that's why all airlines in the world only take enough fuel to get them to the destination plus diversion fuel to the next nearest airport just in case they can't land at the original destination airport plus 40 min emergency fuel. What exactly would a Jerry can of fuel do for you?. Do you expect someone to climb out onto the wing in flight and add the fuel?. Aircraft can not simply pull over and stop in the air to add fuel, it's not a car. Luckily you're not a pilot.

[@PrestonVanLoon]

When the flaps were extended to full down, they changed the airflow on the (iced) empennage which caused a tail stall. Without an effective elevator, they had very little control remaining.

[@josephcameron530]

Excellent presentation. Sad event. Thank you.

[@chipsawdust5816]

Armchairing it here like anyone else, the problem started when flaps 40 was called. First thing, undo what you just did, since it was flying OK before. Go back to flaps 20. Might not have resolved the issue but that's what came to my mind initially. They went into fuel imbalance and autopilot but those were eliminated prior to the crash.

[@BMC2]

Wow man this is mentour pilot like professional footage. Subscribed!

[@TonyWeesner-ok2pp]

It's sure the best idea to consider everything.

[@markjackson-h5j]

There indeed may have been an issue with the flaps. However, I consider the more likely cause of the accident was the change in aerodynamic characteristics following flap deployment with ice on the airframe. With significant ice build up, the usual advice I believe, is to decouple the autopilot and land flaps up. As always, great vid.

[@yoyojoe9240]

So we agree, Flaps extended, A/c started to misbehave, Flaps to 0° fast......

[@alduncine]

Good debrief. Great vid.

[@harrybalsak916]

If they were flying into icing conditions, ALL DE-ICE AND ANTI-ICE systems should have been activate _before_ entering into icing and not turned off until on the ground.

[@yomommaahotoo264]

If the plane can't safely land with it's deicing system on, it shouldn't be permitted to fly. Seems to be another FAA failing IMO.

[@JStryker7]

They turned off the system to increase performance, not because they couldn’t land with it on

[@yomommaahotoo264]

@@JStryker7 But that is the question. If 'performance' is a landing issue where icing is present, then AGAIN, the plane shouldn't be flying. Stated differently, if icing is present at approach, the FAA rules should MANDATE continuing deicing.

[@JStryker7]

@@yomommaahotoo264 except no one said it was an issue. We always want max performance, but less than max isn’t necessarily a problem

[@fitzpatrickgf]

This is not accurate! There was an issue with the aircraft the day before the accident that caused them to return to Pontiac! Aircraft were not pressurized due to the age and cost of preventive maintenance. I flew with the Captain when he was a flight instructor at Jackson Community College in Jackson, Michigan. He had a short fuse with my current instructor after completing a cross check flight with me, escalating it into a shouting match! He was a bold and risky pilot, showing off in the Cutlass RG with another student while doing a departure out of KJXN, retracting the gear while still in ground effect and pulling up at the very end of the runway. I ran into him later at Royal Air in 2007-08 when I was on my 2nd day learning to be a dispatcher there at their operations. He said that I should get my multi-engine and ride along in the right seat to build some time. I was Commercial Instrument Rated Single-Engine Land and CFI, but my flying career was placed on the back burner due to other life priorities. I was not comfortable with the operations at Royal Air and quit after my 3rd day. The training dispatcher was a real jerk and the other pilots were coming in griping about reviewing the maintenance logs to see if equipment was fixed and the aircraft were airworthy. I had a really bad vibe and glad I got out of there. I was not surprised when I heard about the accident. I helped manage a small airport in the same area and I was sick and tired of all the egoistic brats who managed to slide through a rich life without a care or real passion for flying, but they were the risk takers, thinking they were untouchable and nothing could stop them, yet those who were truly safety conscious and had a passion to fly were limited with funds to get through a full program without going broke. I could write a book on my experiences, and still to this day, I will never understand the aviation community, which my impressions as a kid were totally different from what I witnessed being in it! It still is a big risk flying with a PIC who takes risks, short cuts while flying by the seat of his pants.

[@RobertGreiner-os7um]

Wow you just complained (putting it lightly) about every single person you came in contact with,makes me wonder who the real problem is.

[@fitzpatrickgf]

@@RobertGreiner-os7um Triggered Robby Boy??? I'm sure you roll with the punches of inaccurate information all the time. There are Old Pilots and there are Bold Pilots, but there are never Old-Bold Pilots now are there???? Two sides to every story and perhaps you can do your own investigation on individual pilots if you wish. I only flew with safe instructors and if there were ever any unsafe instructors in the school I was attending, I didn't wait until an incident or accident occurred, I said something immediately to the flight director! Yes, they would be pissed off, triggered and try to turn other instructors against me, but they would eventually be heading out the exit when they knew I didn't care and kept showing up standing my ground. That is our duty as pilots to keep the skies safe and why so many pilots older pilots are taking a break or retiring early from the airlines because they are not going to be forced into working in a DEI environment because an airline prefers any pilot regardless sitting in any seat as long as they are a pilot sitting in the seat. That is why they are highly insured! They just write it off and merge with another airline to forget its past record, but the shareholders still profit. There is so much you need to learn in the aviation field before you start calling out the complainers Robert! At least wise pilots like myself can walk away without all the sarcasm and overhead the airlines are facing these days. We can go fly our own planes privately, while crazy people take risks dealing with rude customers and unexperienced pilots. The luxury of real flying has since vanished and it's no different then taking a Greyhound Bus from Chicago to New York City, which I'm sure you are one of those that do often! 😁

[@mikeh.7499]

​@fitzpatrickgf, you call out bad behavior then look down your nose at riding a bus?

[@FutonStories]

I was on your side until you began bragging about holy you are to the aviation community. Arrogance has no place here. ​@@fitzpatrickgf

[@taaurus13]

Yikes. Your defensiveness and reply to Robert was so immature and so uncalled for. Suddenly I no longer believe anything you said in your original comment. I don’t think anyone will.

[@timd5711]

I give pilots a ton of credit. The closest I ever came to buying it was when the hand brake on my Big Wheel broke while speeding down a hill in my neighborhood as a kid. (If you get the Big Wheel reference, you’re over the age of 50 lol)

[@solefinder3708]

What gets me, or my take away from this is wow, if two pilots with all those hours of experience can still crash so sudden, than what hope do the rest of us have up there in the air? I use to love, literally dream of flying, of airplanes...but now I'm just happy to observe them from the ground. Especially after seeing both experienced and amateur pilots a like 'bite the dust'.

[@GeorgeSemel]

If you have the icing equipment on, leave it on. Also, regarding flaps, please follow the flight manual. In the aircraft I flew, I left them up and carried more power down to the landing. Icing is a killer; it's better not to hang around in it and go elsewhere. It's very easy to dig a hole you can't get out of. The Great Lakes region is notorious for icing.

[@colspiracy8326]

As a forklift truck driver i am inclined to agree.

[@kristoffaninkama3883]

Another good presentation, but icing causing the flap to move is a bit hard to bite, as they are hydraulically controlled.

[@TheJaymon1962]

Add flaps and things go haywire. Retract the flaps?

[@rodolfoayalajr.8589]

Condolences to the families and friends. Rip Amen 🙏.

[@jonasbaine3538]

Is the power reduction really that bad with icing ?

[@MrTruckerf]

Depends on how much ice, but to answer your question....YES!

[@erdem091984]

Is there something in the documentation of the Learjet 35A, forbidding to use full flaps in know icing conditions ?

[@Greggg57]

I was flying for a cargo outfit based in Utah. The flight was in Montana. The boxes of freight came with some snow accumulation. In flight, the snow melted and sank to the floor...and beneath. One night the elevator cables became locked up. Couldn't move the elevator! So after a bunch of jerking on the control wheel the elevator freed up. After unloading the cargo and pulling up some floor-boards we saw the elevator cables hovering over blocks of ice by, maybe, 1/8 inch. Complained to the company about the ice accumulation and they did nothing. Not so much as lay vis-queen on the floor before loading. I put in my last 2 months, constantly moving the elevator control, and quit the company. Cargo outfits like that don't care about their pilots.

[@robertbandusky9565]

Does the Lear 35 not have asymmetric flap protection?👨‍✈️

[@begbieyabass]

Something is not quite right here Did anyone else pick it up

[@HomeshighlandPark]

Wonder how many planes almost crashed for this reason

[@jamesgraham6122]

It doesn't require a 'failure of the system' to create a control issue with icing. When in icing conditions we're well aware that any change in the aircraft configuration can result in disrupted airflow over the empennage, (tail area),, It's in our minds.. or should be, to be aware that a control issue could arise when selecting flap and we should therefore be ready to revert to the previous flap setting at the first indication of a problem.. It's simply that when selecting a different flap setting, airflow is redirected and acting on a different area of the control surfaces which may be suffering from ice accretion, it's not uncommon.

[@iwaswrongabouteveryhthing]

they've never heard of "go around"?

[@jbouza09]

Just fyi the Lear 35 did not have spoilerons but did have spoilers or speed brakes. When he put the flaps down it pitched the nose up and since he was on the ragged edge of disrupted airflow it stalled. Spoilerons didn’t show up in Lears till the 31a.

[@swan77a]

Turing off the anti ice system with a minimal loss of engine performance wasn't a based risk vs reward decision thinking of the potential consequences of icing.

[@robotswithgunzlol]

At 12 or so minutes in you state that increasing power can lead to a stall. If an aircraft is not already in a stall condition, increasing power will not lead to a stall. Simply put, you were plain wrong.

[@thomasgreen8894]

I can't figure out why after the plane started to roll they didn't increase power, raise the flaps to the last position

[@JohnShields-xx1yk]

Different type of icing, some wet ice, some thin frosty ice probably doesn't fall away as readily as other icing, either way it's a nightmare how easily icing can bring down a jet.

[@pobinr]

Good video. Music's disracting though & pointless

[@JuliusUnique]

I like the troll using nauticle miles xD

[@moler1964]

The lear leaves little wing for improvement when mothernature shows her Hand!!!!

[@JStryker7]

That’s quite the aircraft to use for cargo

[@scottmonroe6522]

Wrong! Rime is not supercooled droplets, that would be clear ice.

[@davidverwoert5165]

I'm thinking the deicer on the port wing wasn't working correctly. When they hit full flaps the extra ice on that wing made it loose lift causing it to bank hard,stall, and nose down.

[@daviddavidson2357]

Not a conspiracy theory at all, Occam's razor. Definitely a frozen control surface. Planes don't just roll over right after activating the flaps unless there's a problem there, or there is significant pilot error, the latter of which was not recorded. Depending on how the plane broke up, or how over-stressed the parts were, the ice could have easily broken away either as the wings flexed in such a high g manoeuvre as a result of flap/spoileron asymmetry, or, if the hydraulic accumulator to the flaps/spoileron was still attached to the surfaces post crash, there would still be enough pressure in the system to activate them. This was only 5 years ago too, it took quite a while for the NTSB to take rudder hardover into consideration IIRC and the human cost was much higher in those incidents. Seems the NTSB may be missing the forest for the trees here.

[@georgemetaxas9227]

I'm not a pilot, but why aren't there 2-3 minature cameras strategically placed for some exterior views of an aircraft in case there is something wrong but cannot be seen from the pilots seats?

[@arturo468]

Cost.

[@keeperofoddknowledgesociet3264]

Not sure why he gave the take off time in Pontiac as central time not Zulu. Anyway Pontiac Michigan is in the eastern time zone.

[@CuriousPilot90]

Central Standard Time was used in the NTSB final report when detailing the events. I try to take the facts from the final report as closely as possible. Most of the time I will use UTC/Zulu especially when crossing time zones or borders during the incident. As this incident was contained within mainland US I kept it the same as the final report.

[@billeldon]

@@CuriousPilot90but MI and IL are in different time zones.

[@craigandnem4597]

The only “cargo” I’ve ever known to be hauled in a Lear-Jet was Nose Candy and Herbalceuticals… secondhand story from a friend. 😏

[@davidl5462]

how did you make this video using microsoft flight simulator

[@bunglejoy3645]

If there was icing why didnt they deiced before they left as then when they turned their own deicing on it would extra help it was really iced up spoiler was proberly reslly iced up. Does icing just hsppen in cold wet weather or can it happen even in good weather

[@randyreynolds1045]

Horrid

[@Frank-zg8ms]

RIP 🙏 INMO in any acft you select a switch for a desire outcome if that command setting/position did not give you what you looking for 🤔 Quickly put it back in previous position/configuration Landing gears are always a big drag So gear up and full power Aviate Navigate Communicate Always full flaps in short final in Circle to land , when landing is 100% assured As engine failure procedures in single engine landing , you never put full flaps until you are 100% committed

[@Gmancro929]

The didn't get the memo :"ice can kill you"

[@Splicer]

👍🏼

[@TheRoguelement]

NEVER EVER EVER EVER CIRCLE TO LAND THE LEAR 35... PERIOD....Bad idea bad idea ...

[@bunglejoy3645]

Did they say temp w aS minus 6 id be tucked up in bed at that temp i wouldnt go out in tgst weather

[@navinrjohnson5047]

Knew some people who worked there in the mid 90s. Freight dogs.

[@Curious-Minds]

Icy flaps...been there.

[@Gus1966-c9o]

This crash has striking similarities to the Teterboro Lear crash when those two clowns failed with a circle to land approach. The resulting video was horrific .

[@OMG_No_Way]

A buddy of mine use to fly Lear Jets years ago. He had just landed at TEB in a G550 and they were walking to their rental car when they heard the Lear coming in. Him and the other pilot were standing there watching it. Since both guys had previously flown Lear Jets, they were fans of the plane. Standing there, looking up and watching the plane, he made the comment to his buddy something didn’t look right. At which time the Lear rolled over and flew into the ground. Crazy.

[@Gus1966-c9o]

@@OMG_No_Wayoh man !

[@northmaineguy5896]

My vote is for an accelerated stall.

[@RexPonder-y6b]

Sorry the new. That might have happened. Or maybe not. But this is the difference between now and then. Yes tech is different. But people are definitely not the same. You may not agree. But I have seen it.

[@jmax8692]

Correction kid, Ice can form in any precipitation up to 10 degrees ABOVE freezing in (F) FYI

[@bubbafrump74]

I never did hear you say... do you think, if they put the flaps back to wherever they were before 30°, that it might have saved them? If so, why do you think 2 well trained pilots wouldnt think of undoing the thing they did immediately before they lost control? I am not a pilot and when i was watching, i was LITERALLY, i kid you not, screaming out loud at the screen, " REVERSE THE FLAPS!!! REVERSE THE FLAPS!!!!🤦🤦🏻‍♂️🤦‍♀️ Why do you think a non pilot might immediately think of that, but 2 seasoned veterans wrnt straight to a series of completely unrelated things? Is it possibly something in there training, or is there some flight characteristic, that as a "nonpilot", i just wouldnt be aware of, that would make that a bad idea??? If so, what is it? What would the plane have done had they reversed flaps? I dont know how old this video is, or if you read these, or maybe just not the ones this stinkin long, but i realy hope you do see this and have a minute to answer. I truly am very interested.

[@grahamstevenson1740]

corroborate, not collaborate.

[@qakk2000]

92 not 72 hehehehehe cheers love the vids

[@CuriousPilot90]

Oh no, what did I say wrong? 🙈

[@Jester01]

@@CuriousPilot90 Nothing of importance, just the right engine operating hours at 3:52 Thanks for the video.

[@thomaswest5931]

Most scared I’ve ever been as PIC in an ac is collecting rime ice on a night approach in a C172. Late night into Rochester NY after a 14 hr xctry. Get home-itis caused me to judge ice no factor because reported only in other quadrant (I was much younger). Second the prop slung ice I applied full power and crawled (clawed) back up at 200 ft/min. Terrifying. Only consolation was I was solo and would not be responsible for anyone else. Got above and clear. Heavy rime on leading edge. Went to Binghamton and did a no flap 90 kt final. Will always remember once parked the loud sloughing off of that ice. Never ever entered an area with reported ice of any degree. 35 years ago. I’m an old, but not bold, aviator.

[@localbod]

At 14:43 "...which would collaborate what the first officer stated." Collaborate means to work together to achieve a common goal. Corroborate means to confirm or support something with additional evidence. I think that you meant to use the latter. If you need any help with proof reading your scripts for free, let me know. 👍

[@ac583]

Worst storytelling ever.

[@Tom-m1r]

That's makes perfect sense that 1 set of flaps were frozen & didn't deploy equally then when it crashed it broke the ice then the flaps finished deployment. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄