Currently-Serving Mormon Bishop Loses Faith in Mormonism: Zane and Tina Beard | Ep. 1790

[@mmthueson]

I am a current Bishop’s wife and I have completely lost my faith in the church. Thank you for this interview, it has helped me tremendously. I too feel like “The Villain”. Tina, the parallels between your story and mine are almost shocking. However, my husband won’t even listen to my concerns until he’s done serving as Bishop. So, we are in a holding pattern for another 1-3 years. Your story gives me hope.

[@mmthueson]

@@randyjordan5521 He is aware. We started going to counseling so we could work through it. I’m still attending church to support him, but it’s really difficult to be there.

[@cynthiahepworth6181]

You’re not alone! I also lost my faith shortly after my husband was called as bishop in 2014. It was a long 5 years and it’s so isolating. I’m sorry! I don’t attend any longer, but my husband still does, so I’m definitely the neighborhood villain.

[@mitsuya33]

Where are you guys from?

[@mmthueson]

@@mitsuya33 Oregon

[@patrickbateman161]

What a nightmare. I’m sorry you are stuck in the situation.

[@Cheerful_Bacon]

Just wow, what an amazing interview! There was SOOO much I could relate to and I haven't even been an active Mormon as a mom. I left the church in Dec 2011 due to not knowing if I really had a testimony and only just in this past year am I starting to realize that I still need to deconstruct my faith. The reason I mention this is that through listening to Tina tonight, my eyes are open to how much of my behavior and feeling towards being a stay at home mom came from my upbringing in the church. There was soo much of this that I found myself nodding to or exclaiming things like "yes, that's it" "exactly that". Thank you Tina and Margi for helping me see that my struggle as a (newly diagnosed adhd) mom of two littles is normal. That it is OKAY for it to be hard for me to find myself. That is normal to feel like a failure by not measuring up to this image, which I am realizing mainly came from my upbringing in the church. Thank you Tina and Zane for being brave to share your story and please know it has help others, at least this mom. (sorry for the long comment)

[@tessmoffett5512]

Your whole comment was like looking in a mirror. So nice to feel validated about this.

[@barbsilvey3276]

WOW…do I love these two. I saw FOUR HOURS and thought, “Are you kidding me, John?” I have never noticed four hours passing being so encouraging and spiritual. Congrats on your strong and informed decisions, Tina and Zane. You are going to have great lives with your kids and new friends❤️

[@TheSaintelias]

So right. I didn’t even realize it was that long until reading your comment. Lol

[@gloriouslyimperfect]

Wait. That was 4 hours. Really? Didn’t even notice!

[@Raero3764]

Thankyou!! Loved this episode. Living in Australia. Resonates so much with me. I was contemplating leaving then was called as RS president. With young children on my own . I was mentally & physically exhausted. I realised later that i needed to go throu that in order for me to truly wake up. I was released and never went back again. God is still very real in my life just not the mormon version of perfection and unhealthy expectations. Greatful i was able to finally see :)

[@LittleDotCom]

Thanks for this comment. I wondered if people who are no longer Mormon believe in God.

[@brettpinion4233]

The Jesus that you had accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says. We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them. But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden. Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.

[@nicholaspearce4370]

Zane was my bishop and he has helped me through I a lot that I never got to tell him and I have appreciated his love

[@margenn3889]

That's a lovely thing to hear that Zane helped you.

[@mackserrif2897]

Oh my what a disappointment they are

[@RobinRandell-e6w]

Disappointed why. Two genuine honest fresh people

[@sydneykopp608]

The temple endowment experience is what put the nail in the coffin of my Mormon experience. I was horrified by it and remembered hearing how beautiful it was and couldn’t understand how they saw beauty in a cult. A very disturbing cult ritual. Friends had drove me there and it was five hours away. I felt so trapped and wanted to desperately go home but once I did, I knew it was very wrong and never went back to the church.

[@caroleparkinson2206]

This is what happened to me also. I had belonged to Job's Daughters when I was a teenager. So I was shocked when I realized that the rituals were just copied from the Masonic rituals. I left the church after that.

[@rhondadearborn3265]

Would love to see a part II to this interview in a few months to see how their new lives are going.

[@jasonjohnson2767]

**Do Not Betray the Brethren** O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Key--that in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death, see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you do not betray Jesus Christ; that you do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come. Yea, in all your kicking and flounderings, see to it that you do not this thing,*** lest innocent blood be found upon your skirts, and you go down to hell. All other sins are not to be compared to sinning against the Holy Ghost, and proving a traitor to the brethren.*** -**Joseph Smith Jr** (TPJS p.156)

[@lindsayhamon5692]

Two of the most beautiful, genuine, brave people I have ever known. Love them both.

[@chrewtransformation]

Wow! I remember you referring to this recording on the interview w/Bishop Ortiz and you didn't know when they'd give permission to release it. I was expecting years or never, so this is exciting! They're so brave ❤

[@kissykay07]

That’s exactly what I was thinking! I did a happy dance when I saw this. My family was very confused and curious what could make me so excited.

[@2022Coopersmom]

Loved Bishop Ortiz and now Zane and Tina! Do you know how much you help us? ❤ thanks Mormon Stories! Thanks Tina and Zane ❤

[@vernamckee8232]

​@@kissykay07v bybby

[@mrslonelyhearts]

John and Margi are terrific in this interview. I could really see the hurt in Margi's face while they were talking about family members excluded from temple marriage ceremonies. I need to go back and find more Margi--she speaks to my soul.

[@gloriouslyimperfect]

As a NeverMo whose sister is currently a (very) active Mormon, I find your channel, and this story specifically, very enlightening. You have helped me bring to light for myself an understanding of a lot of the things that I couldnt understand of my sister's situation (why she wont leave an abusive husband for example) - you've helped me also be able to talk to her in a way she understands. Thank you for your channel.

[@christianwangsgard8779]

Im a current 2nd councilor in my ward and going through a faith crisis. Just like him, waiting to be released in a few months cause my 5 years is up and I don’t want to create a scene by leaving. Thank you for both of your stories! My wife and I can relate to what you went through.

[@dl1130]

You are not alone! Good luck in letting go. It's hard but so much better than having to live in the "faking it" mode. Not a healthy way to go through life. I stayed inactive for a couple years and then started going to a Bible based Christian church. I have learned so much more about the Bible and the true God than my entire life spent in mormonism.

[@CMZIEBARTH]

There's answers out there. Through mists of darkness we *must* go. But we can get through them.

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

As someone far removed from the world you live in. The word ward makes it sound clinical. As a hospital or similar that has the purpose of fixing broken people. I'm probably 100% wrong but i would love to know what your thoughts are on it? I hope you will experience better times quickly and with care.

[@taylorjhansen]

I was 2nd councilor too when I left. I was 3 years into my calling when I asked to be released and stopped attending. Sending lots of positive energy and support your way.

[@rickskeptical]

@@randyjordan5521 Good on you for recognizing priorities. I wish I had walked away as a counselor.

[@proffernot5485]

Tina: " 'I don't believe this, but I'm going to have to fake it' is exhausting." Bingo. May authenticity (continue to) reign supreme.

[@iamjustonemom1950]

Bravo to this couple for addressing issues openingly. Live your best life! Thank you so much for sharing.

[@dl1130]

I regret not walking out of the temple in the early 1980's. Now the church has modified the ceremony that was supposed to be received from God to make it more acceptable. Hiding the past doesn't make it right. Christianity is a good place to start after a faith crises.

[@robertbusuttil7848]

Yes I am now a christian and so happy. Young Robert.

[@King_Puffleump]

My faith crisis deconstructed all hope in Christianity as well

[@denz4133]

@@King_Puffleumpreligion period. No evidence/proof? I don’t believe it.

[@Yooperskepticz]

After converting, I started looking into the church in more depth, although that was harder to do in the mid-1980s. But even then, what I learned made me lose my testimony. I further looked into Christianity in general, and that no longer made sense either.

[@dl1130]

@@Yooperskepticz please don't lose your faith in God. Research and you will find that the Bible can be trusted.

[@savannahkidd6547]

I relate so much to Tina story as a previous lds mom self sacrificing to burn out and exhaustion. As a women in the church you get taught that it is noble and righteous to abandon your needs and wants for the church and your husband. It is such a dysfunctional and disempowering belief system to teach women. After years of taking kids to church by myself (since my husband worked out of state much of the year) church was so draining, exhausting, and unedifying. And I kept saying to myself why am I doing this to myself....this isent leading to happiness lol....just drained and depressed from being overworked as a mother. I was doing everything they told me to do but unfulfilled, drained, and unhappy. It is what started my faith crisis and eventually leaving of the church. Found yoga and meditation as a way to find fulfillment, balance and strengthen my nervous system and peace. I left church in 2021 but my husband still believes and in a mixed faith marriage. All of my inlaws told my husband to divorce me because I stopped believing. So resonate alot with Tina how getting viewed as tge problem in the marriage by believing famiky members. Thank mormon stories and Tina for sharing your life and experiences very validating.

[@TheKirkKids]

My husband and I both became doubters and unbelievers of the church while he was serving in a Bishopric. We/he asked to be released, which sent then entire ward into a tail spin, because you don’t do that unless you are moving or sick. I can only imagine the rumors. We sit in the back now and most people don’t speak to us. Your story was so relatable to ours and made us feel so much better knowing we are not alone. Thanks for being brave. The hard thing is it doesn’t get easier. Faking it gets harder and harder. Losing friends and family is the hardest. Also, I know you said you will support your children but our 17 year old daughter still believes and we have tried to explain things to her and she just won’t listen. She feels betrayed by us. I think supporting them gets really difficult when they start to choose the church over you. I hope that your future works out and that there is joy ahead. ❤

[@brettpinion4233]

@brettpinion4233 2 hours ago The Jesus that you had accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says. We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them. But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden. Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.

[@sandrawhite3326]

I am in the USA. 27 yrs ago, I left "the church" after 24 years of being very devoted to & active in it. I left because it was/is not true... When I found out it was NOT true, I was not going to waste one more day of my life in it. However, two adult children (who had repeatedly told me throughout their lives, what a wonderful mother I had always been), did not want to really know the reasons of my leaving at all. I had erroneously supposed that as committed to "the church" as I had been, that they at least would have listened to my reasons for formerly resigning from it, since I had been a person of love, commitment and integrity. But NO! They cut me out of their lives; including cutting their children out of my life100%. So my grandchildren have been told how "evil" and "lost" and "worthless" I am... and they believe it. Immediately, I "died" to all of them: I ceased to exist. They "buried" me alive because they are truly believing Mormons & better-than- thou "Christians". It's a long story...But my relationship with the Biblical Jesus has matured and has grown every day since for the last 25 years! It is a long, miracle story: I was a young girl from the island of Puerto Rico (which is part of the USA), working on my Masters degree in the states, when I became a Mormon. A Long story, long story. And their dad? An abusive, man to me and to them (I don't use the word "abusive" lightly, either), whom they honor and have preferred because he is still a "high priest" in their church (even though, he remarried, & 2nd wife divorced him because of his abuse of her). I was the one to lose the family, yet I had come from a culture, which values motherhood, family, and its sanctity...Mormonism actually interposed itself into my life...destroyed/devasted it. That's a fact...but, friends, I am not a bitter person in my older age...rather I thank the LORD Jesus Christ for rescuing me, (I don't even belong to any church...I just worship Him through the Bible, which is the WORD of GOD!), and He has reconstructed my life, and brought the best of human beings, my Christian husband, into my life... and we have lived a joyful, loving, life together...and have worshipped Jesus Christ for the last 25 years. Leave, leave, leave..."Moroni" was maybe and "angel," but not an angel of light. (Galatians 1:8) The way the LORD rescued me was a miracle: I have been prayerfully contemplating writing a book, probably in Spanish...because so many within the 20 Spanish speaking countries, have been increasingly falling into the lie of Mormonism, particularly in Spain.

[@brettpinion4233]

@@sandrawhite3326 Keep praying for your family. My wife's prayers on her last day were answered when God revealed the truth to our daughter- that the Jesus of the bible was her savior. I could not believe it happened but it did. God bless.

[@cherylwilson8519]

This was really helpful, Ty to Tina and Zane. My husband is a current bishop, I have had to leave finally for my mental health due to the discomfort with so much in this church. Lies, betrayal…I tried to stay as long as I could. Thankfully my husband is supportive but sad. Which makes it hard. I just finally had to put my mental health first. I resonated with so much of their interview. ❤️I also understand Tina’s remarks about gossip, etc, it’s very hard. I was accused of caring too much about what people think, it’s not that. I care about my husband and his calling in the church, plus feelings are feelings. Tbm’s do not understand how hard and heartbreaking this is for the person who left. We are almost put in a corner and told not to discuss it and then speculated on and told why we have left. I would never do that to someone who is staying in the church.

[@RampidWarthogStudios]

What a great couple. One of my biggest motivations for leaving was seeing how unfair the church is with gender roles and to see my wife’s passion and potential being overshadowed with what I was going to do was always troubling and hurtful to her. She’s now been offered her dream career and we’re about to move across the country for her to chase this passion. Which if infuriating because if it was me nobody would question it. But since she’s the career driven spouse we’ve gotten lots of criticism and a lot of people I considered friends in the church that think I’m just going to be a bum and dead beat. Idk it’s not offensive personally. I got a job lined out. But it’s offensive to me because it just shows how little faith they have in my wife and don’t acknowledge her accomplishments. It’s sad really.

[@pechaa]

Well said.

[@gloriouslyimperfect]

She’s lucky to have someone who saw that and is supporting her in her passion. That’s true partnership right there.

[@RampidWarthogStudios]

@@gloriouslyimperfect well thank you. I appreciate that.

[@bethlaubenthal895]

M.

[@ar4122]

Any church that condemns questioning the church, when supposedly your soul is on the line, doesnt want the light to shine on the soul of the church.

[@lebethany53]

My exit was kind of similar to hers… I never read the CES letter or other literature, I didn’t know a lot about early history. But, I felt very early on that I was stifled in the church, that my authentic self was denied and needed to be changed or scrubbed out. I felt that I was being put into a box, told how I was supposed to look at how I should act and what I should say, and what I should believe. And, I always felt angry that I was made to feel guilty for not complying and submitting to others. I hated that I wasn’t allowed to trust myself. I slowly left, knowing that the church wasn’t working for me, we just weren’t a good fit. Being in the church required me to reject my authentic self, and I came to a place where I wasn’t able or willing to do that anymore. So much happier now that I am out.

[@larryballard4475]

Regarding gender roles in the church and being a Bishop's wife, I have two stories to tell. I was the Fire Marshal in a medium sized city in Utah. I conducted a fire investigation of a lady who was a Bishop's wife and a stay-at- home mother. Her husband was an LDS Bishop whose work required him to travel a lot. She too experienced postpartum depression. I believe she had five children. One evening a cross-trained fire/police officer on patrol noticed flames in a home late at night. He called the fire in to dispatch and entered the home to begin rescue efforts. Long story short, the Fire Department found the mother kneeling in the flames holding an infant as they rescued her and all of her children. There were extensive third degree burns on multiple individuals. The mother was severely burned and ended up losing a foot as I recall. Several of the children wore face masks to support skin grafts. As the investigation progressed, the evidence all pointed to the mother having set the fire to me. The rest of the fire investigation team to include the State Fire Marshal's investigators who I called in to assist, assured me that a Bishop's wife would never do such a thing. They chided me roundly. When a detective and I interviewed the mother as she lay in her bed at the burn unit at the UofU hospital, it took a weight off when she began relating how she had gone out to the carport and got a can of gasoline and set the fire. Her depression and perfectionism to be the perfect bishop's wife, led her to think that the world was such a terrible place, it would be better to get her and her children to the next phase. I remember talking to the good Stake President who had come to support the bishop in the waiting room as I walked out to tell the husband that his wife needed to share something with him. As the Bishop left, the Stake President told me that had they only known, they would have been able to maybe release the bishop and lend help. The point is that this dynamic or role expectations went unnoticed. Did she have a faith crisis herself with nobody to talk to let alone a safe place to land? Did she just get so overwhelmed with what both of you two couples discussed so well with the mother's role? Especially the wife of a bishop who has the weight of being the mother of Ward seems to add a second layer of expectation. My second story takes me to living in another Utah city after retiring from the FD. We had a Bishop whose wife was home with five children. She too was suffering severe postpartum depression. My wife, who had also suffered greatly with depression in a similar situation with our five children tried to assist this depressed Bishop's wife in our new ward with ideas and just listening, etc. I had reached out to the Stake President wanting to discuss my fire investigation experience with him so that he might have the awareness the Stake President would have liked to have had in the first instance. He was not home when I stopped by. Sadly, before he could get back to me, this beautiful, wonderful mother stepped out in front of a semi-truck on I-15 and was killed. I have seen my wife in a full-blown depression several times, the last child being the worst and scariest. I too was traveling in the National Fire Code arena and serving long hours at the church as a Ward Clerk. So, this topic is deeply rooted in my psyche. This is a dynamic that I believe does go unnoticed. Thank you all so much for drawing attention to this issue.

[@IsaacCoverstone]

It's always encouraging to see high ranking people leave the Mormon cult. We can hope that one day the entire organization will come to an end.

[@brycebarker1582]

The lds church isn’t going anywhere any time soon. It has way too much money.

[@Yooperskepticz]

@@brycebarker1582maybe it will just morph into a corporation? It already is.

[@elizabethwoodyard8241]

Or at least stop hurting and lying people on a massive scale. Several of my family members still believe and I am just baffled by it.

[@badmiddens]

Oh Isaac, your mouth to Elohim's ear (ok, maybe not funny)

[@flex826]

Be careful with how U choose ur words 🔥🔥

[@lsun5322]

Zane and Tina, I’m an Aussie never-mo and have watched/listened to the entire podcast the day it was released. I hope you’re both in a positive post-Mormon place and thank you for a truly inspiring podcast that demonstrated genuine strength, love and honesty.

[@whitneyormsby2842]

Nice to see familiar faces on here! I grew up in Windaroo Ward with Tina’s family. Lots of love to the Beards for sharing their truth. I’ve had surprisingly similar experiences to Tina’s. Happy to hear I’m not alone.

[@mormonstories]

Thanks for sharing!!

[@whitneyormsby2842]

@@mormonstories let me know if you want any more Australian Mormon Stories! I was raised here, but spent 12 years in Utah/Idaho at BYU, and coming home from a mission early. Quite fun exploring the churches cultural differences in both places. (I am also a bald woman with Alopecia, with plenty of unique stories 😅)

[@kosmickrysti]

@@randyjordan5521that would be an interesting story

[@rickskeptical]

I was serving as a bishop. I had tried to warn the stake president that things were going south and he just gave me one blessing after another. I asked for my release, I asked for help and got hands placed on my head. I could not continue to serve and be honest with myself. My wife understood very little of the church and had no desire to learn more, just live and enjoy the social culture of it. Things got so bad for me that I eventually just quit attending church and went inactive although I continued to follow changes in the church and continued to study religion. About 10 years later, my wife passed away. Once she passed on I asked for my name to be removed and though the process was painful, I am happier now than I ever was in the church.

[@nadiamasot455]

I remember photographing your wedding guys! You are such a great couple of people and I'm so excited for your forward, freeing journey from here. You actually can do anything you want in this beautiful country of ours, and coming into freedom of the narratives that are so heavy within the church, I think you are both doing to do and experience amazing things. BIG HUGS!

[@thebeards8538]

Thank you Nadia! Sending love x

[@mysiann]

I see you, wedding photographer friend!!! (I’m one too )

[@acemarie3613]

​@@thebeards8538, I am 58. When my children were in high school, they asked me what I would do if they became gay. I told them as long as they were happy and could love one another that's all that matters in life. God knew we all would sin. So he gave his son on our behalf. Through his stripes we are healed. LOVE all people. That is the answer in life. Blessings to you and yours. ❤😊🙏

[@scottrobertson6949]

Thankyou Zane and Tina!! and John and Margie. You guys are so brave to be so open and authentic given your circumstances. I am 4th generation LDS in Australia and my kids who have served missions and married in the temple are 5th. I've probably been out for approx 7yrs now but can't bring myself to speak to my family about it? I think part of that reluctance is embarrassment. The church is truely in trouble. What do they have to offer if the product is not true? There's lots of club's out there that don't charge you 10% of your income to be members and do much more to help humanity....Red Cross etc. The Ward boundary I live in just had to combine two Wards to deal with dwindling membership. It's only going to get worse. Maybe they could use some of the $150+ billion to pay us to attend??? Love and best wishes to you guys. Scott

[@TEAM__POSEID0N]

at 27:52, Tina mentions how people were telling her "listen for the message" and "you've got to look for the messages". Of course, what really happened is she actually got the true message immediately (i.e. "THIS IS A CULT!"). The message was the 3-ton elephant in the room that everybody else was pretending not to see, while diligently looking for spiritual fortune cookies. She saw the message like the little kid in The Emperor's New Clothes (i.e. "THE EMPEROR IS NAKED!"), while everyone else was trying to describe to each other beautiful clothing that wasn't even there.

[@lauraoliverson3703]

😊

[@leannbrower3152]

Exactly “like a spiritual fortune cookie” great analogy!

[@oireglassie9365]

Regardless of how sad this video made me, i have all the love and respect for bishop beard. He’s a good man and was very welcoming to my family when we moved into the ward. All the best mate!

[@brettpinion4233]

@brettpinion4233 2 hours ago The Jesus, that you had accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says. We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them. But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden. Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.

[@goodoboytw]

I must say a Bishop and his wife are heroes in my opinion, they have a monumental task and responsibility of not only making a living.... raising kids plus countess hours of time, money and devotion to helping others Spiritually and physically needs. My last 3 bishops were not perfect men, by any means but they and their wives will never be forgotten, they are remarkable people that have blessed so many lives for the better, even though having struggles of there own, they still mustered up the energy to serve and make others lives better. Bishops and there families have a lot on their plate, so support them instead of criticizing them. Its not like they raise there hand and say I want to be a Bishop, usually the opposite. So please be kind to them..😊

[@dymonbrady6812]

It’s quite comforting seeing people follow integrity over conformity. It’s not easy, so thank you for coming forward with your experience! It helps a lot.

[@agnetha2012]

I was shocked as well when I went through the temple. I thought, "this isn't the church I grew up in." People told me all the time how beautiful the experience is and I thought there must be something wrong with me, because I thought it was very strange.

[@OGGgirl]

Oh I just want to reach through the screen and hug Margi - the pain, the disappointment, the true ache on her face when John talked about her dreams and goals for her life, and how the Church would not accept that. I am so very sorry you did not have the opportunity to have your dreams for yourself realized. I send you a hug and love.

[@carrierea8969]

Was it the church that didn't accept it? maybe...was it John being to busy to support it. I felt gutted for her too. I really don't like how men talk about all their accomplishments in front of their wives and don't say what a great job their wives did or still do to the day they die as a mother who tries all the time - if they are invested.

[@TS-iv9ml]

As a previous bishop's wife, members had no problem telling me I wasn't good enough. Even received a written letter from one "lifted up" sister telling me my flaws and what i should be doing. Yet her husband was a clerk for my bishop/husband 🤷‍♀️ after all that the next several decades i made sure all my "inspired" callings were in Primary cuz the sisters were hateful and mean. Finally I decided to show myself love & acceptance and left the pain, shame, and unhappiness. Hubs left too ❤ i didn't have a broken shelf; i had an overflowing walkin closet taking over my house!! Finally took out all the trash. Happily ever after! 😊

[@barbarasmith2130]

These stories are just heart breaking i. e. You have to break your heart before you can leave!

[@sarahblack4864]

I was constantly put down by church members both while at church, activities, girls’ camp, and at school while growing up. Mean hateful nasty comments about my family members, my appearance, and my worth. Mainly by children my age but sometimes adults. As an adult, church members made hurtful assumptions and comments. Especially when I got married church members believed my abusive ex-husband until some figured out he was and is evil. I had a bishop tell me I was probably the problem. I haven’t been back since. I still pray and occasionally read scripture. I believe in God and I believe Jesus is the Christ.

[@TS-iv9ml]

@sarahblack4864 you are priceless 🫂 you need not be abused in the name of "church" to have a relationship with your Savior. I adhere to BTF, By Their Fruits ye shall know them. They are NOT of the Spirit. When ppl judge and act, they are 100% defining themselves NOT you! ♥️ by their own words, stand in holy places NOT with such destructive hypocrites. You were not born for such abuse. Natural man and their works are enemies of God. There are only 2 in a relationship with God, you & Him. No 3rd party, checklist, and hamster wheel required! Sending you healing love and positive energies ❤️‍🩹🕊

[@kathrynclass2915]

19:18 Tina, I felt this too! You echo how I feel. I also said in my head “oh my gosh! This IS a count!” I really identify with feeling like a secret had been kept from you and the betrayal of how everyone said the temple is so wonderful but it really wasn’t. I got pushed into going into the prayer circle but that made the situation even worse. My bad experience started with the initiatories, I wanted to leave the endowment when they asked if any he wants to go, but I was getting married two days after the endowment so I felt there was no other option but to keep going.

[@claytongardinier5179]

Your true friends in the church will still be your friends. Unfortunately there will be those that you were really close to who will break your heart. Great courage and the best of luck to you both and your family

[@TS-iv9ml]

"ASSignments" are those types of "friends" in this corporation smh.

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

Yeah. That's probably not happening. Everyone is always going to say that they are the real thing and others are not.

[@PatrickThreewit]

Most of my true friends never stuck by me. A wife told me that her husband would never forgive me and would never forget what I did by no longer believing. But what was the hardest is that after 8 years, my daughter, adopted through the Church, and her 5 kids blocked phone and e-mail communication. And she didn't even contact her mother on her deathbed. .I get 2 or 3 cards a year but no physical contact. And none from her husband who is a bishop's counselor in a town that's around 95% LDS.

[@blckprsthd4791]

3:46:20: This is powerful. Zane's quote "We need the brethren to do what is right. For them to come on MS and speak to the doubts of members" "if they really want to change the world"

[@peachysparkles]

​@@randyjordan5521Why were they excommunicated?

[@cherrinorton2141]

Wow, I so appreciate all of you and your honesty and openness. This helped me let go of so much of my guilt for leaving the church and anger. Part 2 is very needed. ❤ wish you all the happiness life has to offer! Wish I could give her the biggest hug!

[@susanyork9396]

I was baptized in October 1973. I went through the temple the first time in January 1975.....I was being sealed to my husband who was raised in the church and his entire family was there, we had friends there....I felt the same way as Tina did...it was a horrific experience, especially with the penalties that were included in the endowment at that time. But, I thought, all these people think it's normal so something must be wrong with me....I'll get it eventually. So, I went to the temple over and over and over....one time I went 13 times in one month. And yes, it became normal to me...I became brainwashed. The church is more damaging than anything good in it. Not worth the waste of time and money. I spent 47 years at it...all in.....paid my tithing, plus 3 x fast offerings or more, etc. Waste. Of. Time. I regret ever joining the church.

[@wishflowerhill5068]

As someone with a child with ASD and ADHD, I can really sympathize with Tina! She is amazingly resilient. ❤ It really helps me with my own faith crisis to hear the process other people, post faithful-members, have gone through as they struggled with the difficult realizations and transitions regarding the LDS church. Thank you so much for sharing your story and thank you, John, for all the sacrifices you have made in keeping this channel up!

[@markjaye8182]

I appreciate this couple's willingness to bravely share their story. It's one of many reasons why I keep coming back to Mormon Stories and have since I first discovered podcasts in about 2010. So before I go off the rails on my own tangent, thanks again to the Beards for their courage and willingness to share their story of faith. Now for my tangential soliloquy... Mornon Stories was my first exposure to thoughtful debate and discussion, both apologetic and adversarial, about LDS doctrine, thought and philosophy. I feel like I went through John Dehlin's faith crisis with him. I also felt like many of John's early podcasts (2007 - 2015) where outstanding in terms of being fair and open-minded, while still being challenging and somehow still faith affirming. Many of these early podcasts were instrumental in forming what is my current testimony. Before Mormon Stories, I had casually read Nibley (which you can't do casually), some church history, etc., but found Mormon Stories as a kind of shortcut to both apologetic and anti-LDS ideas without having to take a deep dive into countless books - which I did only on occasion. I was more busy than lazy and Mormon Stories was exactly what I was looking for. (Long-winded... Sorry about that.) Today I'm still listening quite regularly and believe most likely that I always will. All that said, I'm still active in the LDS church and still very much a believer. I don't claim to be a "knower", but I do believe. I'm always fascinated to hear the stories of those that leave the church, those that don't believe but stay, and those that both believe and stay (which more and more is a rarity on the podcast). Still, I love the podcast. I appreciate those that are willing to boldly share their truth no matter where they fall on the belief spectrum. I'm also grateful to John for leaving up his early podcasts when he was still a believing member. It's all so fascinating. There's no other way to describe it. Thanks again to this fine couple, the Beards. I wish you both well.

[@marysmith2759]

Very beautiful Couple. You can still believe in our Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ . God isn't Religion. God is spiritual. You don't need to go to church to believe in God. Loved this ❤️

[@jeaniedelaney4711]

I had the exact same reaction to seeing my dad with the cap on as well! (What the heck???). And for 3 years after, whenever I interacted with someone I knew had gone through the temple, the thought going through my head was “I can’t believe you went thru that strange experience as well.” I have majorly struggled with the temple ceremony. I attended for a few years after my mission, and then I haven’t been back for over 20 years.

[@brettpinion4233]

So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors. The new testament has not been corrupted. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old. (note that this was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ The manuscript contains John 1:1-6:11, 6:35b-14:26, 29-30; 15:2-26; 16:2-4, 6-7; 16:10-20:20, 22-23; 20:25-21:9, 12, 17. It is one of the oldest well-preserved New Testament manuscripts known to exist. Its original editor assigned the codex to the early third century, or around AD 200, on the basis of the style of handwriting in the codex.[1] Herbert Hunger later claimed that the handwriting should be dated to an earlier period in the middle or early part of the second century. Book of Mormon- unsupported “The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America. The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, barley, silk, and elephants-even though they weren’t brought to America until centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon. Bible: Today roughly 40,000 combinations of manuscripts exist of the Old and New Testaments proving them to be by far the most verifiable and trusted documents of antiquity. Many of these Old Testament manuscripts are decades and centuries before the birth of Jesus. Namely, the Dead Sea Scrolls, one of the most significant discoveries since antiquity, were discovered in 1947, over 100 years after the Book of Mormon was accusing the Bible of being corrupted. This discovery is remarkably important, especially for the Mormon, because prior to this discovery, the oldest known complete Old Testament manuscript in existence was the Masoretic Text from around 980 AD. Since 980 AD is well after the Book of Mormon claims when the corruption of the Bible occurred, it was impossible to prove the perfect preservation of the Bible and to test the claims of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon that the Bible was corrupted. Joseph Smith did not translate the bible. He did not look at the original Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic. He looked at the KJV of the bible only (English and he added or deleted in English to it). Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. Joseph Smith made his faulty claim clear and said "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt"; Joseph Smith History 1:19 Study the dead sea scrolls found in Qumran which showed beyond any doubt that the old testament had not been corrupted as 1 Nephi chapter 13 said: "the loss of many plain and precious parts of the bible" had occurred. This is why Nephi said there was the need for "the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture". 1 Nephi 13: 26 says "after .. the twelve apostles of the Lamb, ... the formation of that great and abominable church, ... for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the lamb many parts which are plain and most precious". The notes at the bottom say Nephi made this prophesy between 600 and 592 B.C. Then 1 Nephi 13:30 says: "because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel ... Satan hath great power over them". Then, 1 Nephi 14:3 says because of this "the devil... lead away the souls of men down to hell". But the dead sea scrolls proved this prophecy is false as the scrolls found in cave 1 show the that the old testament we have is not corrupted like Nephi said. And the other caves have proven this also with more books of the old testament.

[@Sarahwithanh444]

Oh, I SOOO relate to Tina’s temple experience. The first time through was creepy AF, although I didn’t at that time have the language or concept to articulate why, and the only time I went back was to get sealed to my husband. I never wanted to go near the temple ever again after that. And because everyone around me kept gushing about how wonderful and spiritual the temple was, and I didn’t feel it, the automatic conclusion was that there must be something wrong with me. The ultimate in gaslighting.

[@gaylasparks]

I had seven, struggles beyond belief. And now as a grandma I have 22 grandchildren and the expectations of Mormon families and activities are still so high that I have failed at each level. My eldest daughter is 48 and youngest is 27. They are all part of the church somewhat, the relationships are broken in a few parent child because I could NOT meet the standards set by the church and its rolls for women. I have left the church in 2020. My children are shocked and angry. Again no one is hearing me! The last two children were born with Down Sydrome and the journey of inclusion has been a joke. The membership that I’ve experienced over my 69 years are hypocrites, legalism, and have no heart to help. Imagine two special needs children born within 18 months of each other and never getting relief or help from anyone. Even my parents were non existent in helping because no one knows what to do! ( news flash! I didn’t have a clue either and having special needs children were never mention in my Patriarchal blessing). I have been told years ago to stop bring them to Y women and men because it was unfair for me to impose them on the activity. Ect ect it never ended. But the perfect family relationships are NOT ETERNAL. They leave and they hold grudges because you CAN’T do mothering like the other mothers. I’m done! I’m exhausted!and when I stopped reaching out the silence was deafening! It’s very complicated when everyone acts the part,and wears the uniforms, and speaks the Mormon language. And now my apologies: I apologize if I offend anyone who is PERFECT, and are able to point their fingers at me and know why I couldn’t manage the impossible gender roll that they have for ALL WOMEN.

[@msali3180]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@TS-iv9ml]

You are not alone ❤ many of us could not please all the ppl and family who keeps this "standards" this company teaches perfectionism and slothful servants who needs commanding in all things. Our children are not happy with us either and have cut us out. The members/friends in the corporation only include ppl if they assigned or need something from you. Once done, they erase and ghost you if you are lucky but usually they feel the need to correct others and shame them. I'm so sorry you are also experiencing this 🫂 we look to others who actually need help and serve them, real authentic ppl. I wish I could fix this for you 😢

[@gaylasparks]

@@TS-iv9ml thank you for your warm thoughts and kindness. I know God, and I lay my cares at His feet now. Those experiences were in a state of high anxiety because I didn’t really know Him enough to TRUST HIM. The Mormon God is a BOSS AND DEMOTES IS YOU ARE NOT WORTHY. The REAL GOD IS MY FATHER, and He only wants my heart, and keeps ALL HIS PROMISES. I know Him and I’m am so blessed, peaceful and have pure joy….

[@TS-iv9ml]

@gaylasparks we now know the true God as well. Perhaps these experiences are what has brought us to Him and lay those cares at His feet. You make my heart sing to know you are in such a loving, protected place now surrounded by His love! Thank you for sharing this!! 💖

[@thaiguyry]

A fish only knows the water, to discover the world beyond the river is so amazing. I appreciate you both sharing your stories.

[@patriciajessop2248]

Zane and Tina, I enjoyed every minute of your interview, simply because you both are so honest with yourself and also each other.. My greatest respect to both of you..!! I left the church several years ago, because my early morning seminary students told me, that they saw the ex Bishop and also lawyer punched his wife in the stomach. Several months later in a combined Relief Society/Priesthood meeting, I corrected this 'church leader', about his incorrect statement from the Book of Mormon. He totally lost his temper and he started shouting at me in the CHAPEL, He did me a BIGEST FAVOUR, because I found Mormon Stories Podcasts and learned about Joseph Smith's lies and left the church.. YAY..!! I am so much HAPPIER now. Thank you John for all your amazing PODCASTS. I ❣them...!!!

[@MattnAbby]

Wow. It’s an unpaid position !? I honestly had no idea !? As an Australian this would have to be one of my fave episodes ! Mormonism is not at all popular here in Australia. Many many out there, temples in each state. But very unheard of unless you’re looking for it. Very interesting.

[@Raero3764]

Nope . Definitely lots of Mormons here in Australia.

[@hbendzulla8213]

@@deebee2603love the attitude.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

​@@Raero3764155,586 official members in a population of about 26.45 million. This is 1 member in 170.

[@robertbusuttil7848]

@@Raero3764 what a lie .the australia government census states there are only 44 thousand lds "Mormons "in Australia.and the cult has declined 6.6.percent in 5 years. Furthermore only 28,thousand Mormons attend church regularly in Australia the cult is dying..praise God. The only 2 churches that saw growth were the jehovahs witnesses and the seventh day Adventists. From young Robert.

[@barbarasmith2130]

So much for “keeping families together”. My family never took me seriously after I joined the church. Work was never respectful. Friends could not understand. I lost jobs, family, and social opportunities but church never supplied those. It is a very hard road. Plan of Happiness my foot! It is an ordeal, run according to social and cultural norms from a different country and culture from ours. All that keeps me going is letting ancestors know I believe in Jesus Christ.

[@dl1130]

Thank you Zane and Tina. Best Mormon podcast ever. God bless you always🙏

[@hlnbee]

I had six kids and had postpartum depression with all of them. The worst was with the sixth, but the best was with the fifth. It helped that I walked a lot during the fifth pregnancy. I also had minimal morning sickness.

[@grittypretty]

I admire this couple. Thank you Tina and Zane! Cheers to your lovely Sundays at the beach! Blessings to your beautiful family!!

[@robmeyerak49]

Super wow!! My wife and I really appreciate your story and can totally relate to it! I served as a bishop in Alaska for 4 years. We both left the church 2 years ago and are happier and more in love than ever!! Thank you so much for your sincere honesty! You are both amazing and we would love to meet you someday ❤️ John thank you for all you do! It is so nice to see Margee sitting next to you and giving great comments and support, she is beautiful! Rob n Marlene ❤

[@marlenebulger6822]

1997, I knew my church (LDS) was not leading me in the right way. I was a single Mom and had no choice but to work saturday night until early Sunday morning. They kept nagging me how inappropriate it was for me to be a single parent. They pushed some of the creepiest older men in my ward to approach me and ask me out. They also complained how I should not be working Sundays because I missed sacrament meetings, etc. My response was, "Gee, then I guess Steve Young needs to find another job since he works Sundays." 😂😂😂 they said in response, he gets sacrament before his games. How lucky for him. Maybe make sacrament meetings later in the day then, so everyone can attend. I surmised his tithe was far more than mine, when and if I could pay a tithe. And that's all it boils down to. That and that I am female and didn't get supported like the men supported each other.

[@HeroMan380]

So much courage to not care about being disciplined, the more we bring these people and stories into the light, the more the church becomes weak and insignificant. So much good when people come together and stand up to this awful church

[@michaelzurn-nm9ns]

I am so grateful for the courage that the 2 of you have to speak up. I was a councilor in a bishopric and was just recently released from being a 1st councilor in the elders quorum because I asked to be. I could not continue to ask others if they are doing ministering if I didn’t believe the church to be true.

[@charlyshay1013]

Ex-Mormon here, I was a member for 30 yrs while I was raising a large family. I remember being very frustrated when my husband and I were pressured to fill our visiting & hometeaching quotas every month, attend our weekly meetings for our various callings, and get the kids to their various weekly church activities. My family was always being pulled apart in a hundred different directions. It was exhausting and discouraging. I felt guilty leaving my own family to visit other families and attend one planning meeting after another during the week. Being an "active" member of the LDS church is not conducive to family togetherness!

[@kerrieestrada1507]

Yes, everyone else is more important than your own family.😢

[@anaflores5402]

Tina and Zane you guys are amazing! I was a member of the church for 10 years. I joined when I was 25 and left 3 years ago. Everything that happened in the church in the last few years of my membership was eyed opening. But I want to say that even though we left the church quietly my husband and I lost our community, friends no one from the church really talks to us and I always thought we were really friends 😢.

[@sweingold5686]

The shunning is really awful. I am sorry.

[@merilynshirra1683]

Hi Tina and Zane from Brissy Australia. Very best wishes to you and your family in your new adventure together. Thank you for your courage and honesty.

[@lorawhitfield6995]

What a lovely couple! I really appreciate they’re vulnerability and honesty. I wish the very best for them and their family!

[@awakening2979]

It’s funny that we all had that weird feeling going through the temple! What a waste of time trying to go as often as possible to normalize the experience!

[@barbarasmith2130]

Can take decades.

[@keepinitreal938]

yes! the advice I was given was to go back as soon as I could and as much as I could until it didn't seem weird anymore. Now when I look at it, Its more like, go back a lot until you forget about your initial feelings of this is a cult and really weird. It's just another way the church teaches people to not trust their own intuition and not feel the spirit for themselves. Its all about giving your agency to the church and not making your own choices.

[@marileechapin1704]

And funny how they have changed things from practically molesting you while blessing you, to not touching the skin anymore to bless your parts. That really creeped me out. Everything thing about the temple is creepy and a secret, although they teach, sacred, not secret, which is a lie.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

​@@marileechapin1704And it's a fairly poorly kept secret, since all the ceremonies can be seen on KZbin (channel NewNameNoah)

[@dallenpowell2745]

"We could have both been happier but we were trying to live the gospel." 🔥 1:28:30

[@tooelenative9098]

I relate so much to Tina and Zane. Tina’s story of shock was like mine at my first time in the temple. My husband was bishop of our ward and also served in various other leadership roles. I was Primary president and First Counselor in Relief Society and Young Women. We had 4 little kids, and between my husband’s job and his callings I was left alone so much while I really needed him to be home. I can relate to the guilt, thinking I’m not supposed to be so selfish, caused me great conflict. I heard some people talking about some “anti-Mormon” books they read and I was curious. Learning about the Churches true history, Joseph’s true behavior, the “translation” of the Egyptian papyri, etc. etc. I lost my faith. The final straw was realizing that Mormonism teaches a false god who was created by another god and progressed into godhood rather than being the One True God, Supreme Being and Creator of all things. Anyway, it was a painful journey out, my husband divorced me, he’s still active. I found a group of Christians who gave me the support I needed.

[@tchili1]

So happy that you got out and are truly now saved. Very sorry about your husband, but as long as he is here pn this earth, there's hope he will be able to get out as well and begin anew with the truth and Jesus Christ as his Savior.❤❤❤❤

[@goodoboytw]

Joseph couldn't have done what he did without the support of his wife Emma. She was a significant contributor to the restoration of the Gospel and a very special lady.. Even she with loosing many kids, constantly moving and attact by mombs, and eventually the lost of her husband was to much to bare. I think though she will havea special place heaven for her remarkable sacrifice.

[@juancarlosverdugosanchez4296]

Zane and Tina are very nice people. I am glad they stopped believing a lie.

[@richardholmes5676]

Believing a lie? You're a LIAR for saying that.

[@juancarlosverdugosanchez4296]

@@richardholmes5676 the mormon church is a lie even if you don't like it.

[@garrymoss8021]

We shall see soon enough what the lie is.

[@tinacorinn]

Anybody else get the feeling this marriage is in a bad place? She pointedly avoids looking at him. It was difficult to watch.

[@juancarlosverdugosanchez4296]

@@tinacorinn Not at all, let's not make assumptions about their marriage.

[@JasonWood100]

What really upset me was blaming myself for not being good enough whenever something outside of my control went wrong. "If you're feeling unhappy when you go to church it must be something wrong with you" kind of thing

[@abigailjones2813]

Congratulations to this strong, thoughtful couple on questioning these assumptions and breaking free.

[@theresazelazny7445]

I wonder What a supportive environment for mothers would look like? I identify with Tina and Margie. I was watching your faces. My heart was breaking inside. My experience was similar. It is not just the struggle we go through, but also the feelings of shame and inadequacy as well, even when we are good mothers! This is so stressful for us, and children also pick up on it too. We all need to feel competent in our lives and to be valued for who we are. How do we(MEN and women) create the support that others need? It's sad to me that husbands often catch on so late, sometimes too late after the damage has been done. How do we change the culture? I'm so glad for this venue, Margie and John, giving others the opportunity to lift up the reality of what we live. Again, how do we change the culture? Thank you.

[@carrierea8969]

Anger and resentment also comes along in the period of being in the thick of it with raising children. Anger doesn't get you anywhere. It is not good for mental health. Being heard is. It can be addressed earlier and also hormones, post-natal depression. We don't know what we are going through until we get to the other side. These things can contribute to 'losing faith' as we are struggling to just keep ourselves together

[@carrierea8969]

I absolutely love your comment

[@theresazelazny7445]

I agree with you and loved your comment as well.@@carrierea8969

[@jake8882]

This is crazy...im going through my faith crisis right now. Lots of similar experiences and eye opening moments. Thanks John. Thanks Tina also. Feel the same.

[@Genesis-xd1id]

Great video! I was in the Bishopric and then the HC and went through all this in those callings. I am still a PIMO, and can appreciate how “hard” it is to leave. My wife doesn’t know really much about church history or really anything with doctrine except she believes in Jesus, but doesn’t know much about him or reads the NT. She has the draw simply due to feelings but then doesn’t like a lot of the Petra church. Complex! So this was nice to hear and I’m glad they have eachother!

[@lizhoward9754]

I find it absolutely fascinating that Tina was always interested in cults. Amazing. It is no wonder she questioned her Mormonism. I get the impression she was always a bit of a critical thinker and never just “accepted” things.

[@mistyevents]

Tina is also Scorpio 😅 so there’s that, it’s a trait of this personality to dive into cults and question. I’m Scorpio too 😊

[@mackserrif2897]

I get the impression the idiot is a nutcase!!!

[@patriciaschultz3005]

Thank you for Mormon stories. I’m not nor never have been LDS. However, Bill Gothard cult teachings do similar things to a woman’s soul. There is so much here I can relate too. I deeply appreciate your stories, Tina and Zane, and your courage to share. May you and yours be well and be blessed in the new life you “choose “ for yourselfs and your family. And May the changes and relationships flow with greater ease and positive outcomes than might be expected. And may divine protection and inspiration grace you, your family and your hosts on this KZbin video.

[@thebeards8538]

Thank you ❤

[@lindy765]

Wow just love this beautiful couple, being so frank and now how they want to live their lives outside the church, I hope they both don’t get ex-communicated and are able to leave quietly with dignity, which is what I did many years ago, I just stopped going, and eventually the church wrote to me asking if I wanted my name taken off the church records, I said yes and I never heard back from them after that . I truly hope this family finds true happiness and I wish them all the best for their new life , please keep us posted about what happened to them after they moved x

[@knan75]

An exceptionally good interview. Thoroughly enjoyed listening to Tina & Zane!

[@OneMore-bq9kb]

I completely relate to how triggered she felt about Keep Sweet and Obey at 2:29:47 . When I saw the FLDS have the same pictures of the first four prophets hanging on their wall as the mainstream church, it impacted me at my core. Although the mainstream church tries to downplay and distance the polygamy doctrine cannonized in D&C 132, the reality is the FLDS currently practice the same plural marriage doctrine cannonized in the modern day scripture of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints / Mormon church and they believe this will be practiced in the highest level of the ultimate reward in their Celestial Kingdom. The current 100 year old prophet, Russell M. Nelson, was sealed for eternity to a second women after his first wife died. His second wife is younger than his daughter. The take away is that it sucks to be a woman in this church both on Earth and in heaven! They teach if you dare have a problem wanting plural wife #99 to be your greatest reward, there is something wrong deeply wrong with you and you need to repent. The current gaslighting from men in the mainstream Church towards women has been the last straw for so many people. The name change away from Mormon to Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was the previous straw. They want us to believe prophets acting as the mouthpiece of God can't even agree on the name of their church? What the what. 🙄 The pissing contest between prophets Hinkley and Nelson changed the name of their famous Mormon Tabernacle Choir and LDS Business College and tithe payers paid for both the billion dollar "I am a Mormon" PR campaign and the expensive name change and rebranding.

[@RobinRandell-e6w]

Tina is hurting so much. This sweet soul has soldiered on supporting her husband and children. The church teaches the importance of family yet this culture destroys the fabric of family life

[@DoxxicChange]

Thank you, Zane and Tina for your honesty and bravery.

[@timisa58]

I am just puzzled, for converts, why they believed that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. With all the other faiths around them, why did they believe the LDS was true or more true than others. I really am grateful that I was not raised by religious parents. Neither were ever truly convinced of the need for religion, especially my mother.

[@harlanlang6556]

During Joseph Smith's time there was a belief that if there's one God, then there's one true church, and people were trying to figure out which one it was. Discovering that a man claimed to be a prophet who could answer their questions was appealing to some. And Joseph apparently had a charisma and a way of stating the "truth" in a convincing way, like some politicians. Many people are convinced by the continued repetition of a "truth" by a group who claim to know. This is the power of TV commercials where people see and hear the same message to buy a certain product which will make them feel better, cure an ailment, etc. It works.

[@MissAmanda616]

This conversation is so honest & it’s really inspiring to listen to ppl talk so openly and honestly about a topic that has been filled with stories & theories & pre-established conversations (instructions) on how to talk someone or talk yourself back into believing a fairy tale that has been accepted by so many for so freaking long!! @3:17:01 when he is talking about what made it so difficult to even consider speaking out about loosing their faith, he says that he loves his ward, and they have seen “miracles” happen. I just wanted to come & point out that it’s NOT the fairy tales & religion that has contributed to the changes & miracles & progress that has happened in their ward, it’s the 2 of them, and the leadership that their family brought into their ward. They are really good humans, and it seems clear that they fostered deep & thoughtful conversations amongst the members. I have always felt that if we as humans build better communities & established meaningful relationships amongst neighbors & strangers & built community, but left all gods and goddesses & religion out of it, and instead focused on just being good humans, creating memories & fulfilling experiences for ourselves & our families it would help grow everyone’s own self esteem & it would allow us to learn from one another and I think that kind of connection could change the world. The way AA has no leader or no idle, but instead relies on the role of sponsor & sponsee & learning & understanding yourself while also contributing to the full community. It would establish stronger neighborhoods & networks locally & as those chains grew stronger, it could be replicated on a larger scale, making connections on a grander scale. That same idea of starting small & getting by-in & then building has proven to be successful with how children do in schools, local sports, clubs, policing ect…. If ppl could come together & focus in on what most of us have in common instead of looking for ways to argue & separate & grow more hateful, we could create the positive change we all wish to see in the world.

[@carrierea8969]

Beautiful

[@keiththompson9575]

What grace and what class...uncommon devotion... consideration for others in the process of becoming non-believers... departing in a kind, gentle, respectful manner... and then continuing to flourish in a new life and new location... Yup, you'll make it...

[@janicehedley1006]

I love Zane and Tina. Their beliefs being so honest and truthful are so relatable. I have so much respect for this couple. Their honesty to their feelings of the temple; to the LGBTIQ+ acceptance; the story of Joseph Smith; the struggle with being fake; and their love for their Mormon community. Thank you for your truth and understanding. I love being a Mormon but not all the rules, regulations, beliefs, and the unaccepting of others for their choice of lifestyle. I feel the church has to get away from telling Mormons "they are not worthy" if they aren't full tithe payers; or not 100% following the manmade rules of the "words of wisdom"; and etc. More guilt upon more guilt doesn't make for a happy congregation. God is love and accepting. I hope we get an update on Zane and Tina since this recorded March podcast.

[@mackserrif2897]

i always thought they were superficial

[@andycarrillo1477]

The ‘in-between place’ is liminence -that dreaded state of mind where you are beyond sight of the safe harbor you’ve known and the distant new shore you’ve never seen. What now and how will I survive the trials ahead? Developing understanding, love, then compassion for the fearful left behind may help.

[@jennicablack]

It’s crazy that when people leave the church (especially in Utah where I live) they are shunned by some lds members, literally people won’t even say hi to them anymore. It’s insane.

[@ILthegreat]

That's an untrue generalization. There are many members in our neighborhood who have left and they're still hanging out with TBM's. It's so common now. Most do not care.

[@cynthiaminks8636]

To the world you are a mother, but to your family you are the world.

[@justinsearle4461]

Please make Zane’s challenge to the 12 and first presidency a short.

[@mekan0001]

Just watched this today, and oh boy would I love an update!

[@andreaempey9560]

So relatable. Thanks so much for sharing your story.

[@susanyork9396]

Oh Tina...yes, I feel the same. I listened to the missionaries because of my high school boyfriend. I had turned many missionaries away before I had that boyfriend that I went on to marry. I didn't feel like I joined the church because of my boyfriend but I never would have listened to the missionaries without him, just like Zane. I had been on the path to go to pre med. My passion was to be a doctor. I gave it up. Yes, I chose to be a stay at home mom because of the "plan". False pretenses for sure. Families can be together forever.....bs. It's all false. Wasted 47 years and now I'm much too old to pursue my passion, and too expensive. When I left my first husband, I had to be creative to survive. Work work work....2 and three jobs. Now, I own a vacation rental that I clean and manage, I manage and clean another one, and I clean several other vacation rentals. I love doing what I do but It will never be my true passion. The church is damaging and if someone ever tries to defend it in front of me....I will not be quiet. Lots happened that was pretty bad between the time I joined the church and finally left the church 3 years ago....and had my name legally removed from the church a year ago to get as far away from it as possible. Good on you two for coming forward and telling your story. Thank you!

[@malexander311]

Strong couple. Proud of them. God bless you both.

[@kellijones964]

This episode mirrors mine and my husbands experience, ours just happened a decade earlier. So great to feel seen.

[@jesse1008]

I too would love for an Apostle to come out and be honest about their disbelief ! Like you said there’s got to be at least 1 that knows there aren’t honest answers to the problems with the church. I freaking love that you said that 👍🏼

[@andreatimmers1720]

I think a lot of them know it's BS. They are comfortable and want those billions to keep rolling in.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Uchtorf? I think he is Christian rather than Mormon.

[@RebekahDixon-n7j]

Omg! Stoked to see some Australian content ❤️

[@margenn3889]

I'm a fellow Aussie, and it really is lovely to see an Australian couple featured.

[@eldertibbs]

I relate so much to this. It’s much easier to stay in the church as a nuanced believer if you actually enjoy going to church. If going to church for whatever reason isn’t a positive experience or if you don’t find fulfillment in the community, it’s so much harder to justify staying. Great episode.

[@vocalysemusicworks]

Second Marriage took place outside the Temple. Best decision for us, as we didn't have to deal with family trauma, before the policy for temple marriage and sealings changed to "right away" vs. "stay home for a year, and good luck in heaven, if you don't both live until you can get sealed."

[@MrWhistleFire]

"You cant look at through the prism of truth, but in the prism of seeking truth" Well said!

[@rrrrrrrr290]

Fellow Queenslander here, thanks for sharing your life with us

[@margenn3889]

Zane comes across as someone with so much integrity to be still running off the people he ministers to. Perhaps this will be a message to those he has ministered to that he is still the same person even though he left the church.

[@GrumpyVickyH]

I hope that Zane and Tina are doing well and are not shunned by Tina’s family and friends. It would be heartbreaking to make that choice. 🌹🌹🌹

[@gaiaheart1]

Thank you Tina and Zane for sharing your story. Bless you both .. from a fellow Aussie in Melbourne 🤗

[@WonderWoman88-e2k]

Thank you for sharing your LDS story. I was so confused, startled, and disappointed the first time I went to the LDS temple. I was sealed in the Salt Lake City Temple in 1977, back when it was a live session and you moved from room to room. You used to physically motion your hand across your neck to swear to never ever repeat the experience. Freemasonry hand symbols and other outrageous uninspiring rituals are what make the temple experience so kooky. It felt weird and wrong. For me it was the first sign that the LDS church is a false church. I expected a regal expression of love for Christ at the Temple. If you attend the LDS Temple expecting to grow closer to Jesus, you’ll be despondent and think something is wrong with you. It’s a sign for you to run from this ludicrous cult. Please read the Bible and don’t let the mormon church wreck your faith in Jesus Christ.

[@kathrynclass2915]

1:01:32 what extraordinary parents to be so supportive of their child getting married in the temple that they can’t attend and then to consider the reception the equivalent of the wedding. Haunted. Haunted is a great description for how I feel about getting married in the temple and leaving my dad and never Mormon in-laws outside while I got married and my husband is an only child of parents who had infertility issues for 13 years before they had him so His mom took it especially hard and complained about how the church was all about families yet they were denying her ability to see her only son married. My dad and my husband’s mother have passed away, so I can’t apologize to them now but I can apologize to my father-in-law. I want to sometimes the words seem inadequate, and it holds me back, but I am just going to bite the bullet and do it. What haunts me about my dad is that, I grew up so poor and he couldn’t pay tithing and still provide any kind of shelter or food for us. He could barely provide that as a working person. So he couldn’t go to the temple because he was deemed unworthy. I thought, back then, that he should pay his tithing no matter what, and the blessings would come. He took his lack of being able to go into the temple as the natural consequences/punishment for not being worthy to enter the temple. That just gives me heartache now.

[@mistyevents]

One of my wrath’s towards the church is the idea of tithing and expecting it from people who are functioning at survival level while they create a vast wealth. It’s not Gods way, volunteer service is sufficient tithing if that is possible, even then people in survival mode can not provide that nor should be expected to, to participate in spiritually nourishing activities, if that’s what they are. This is a sign of the falsehood.