Close Air Support: Fighter Jets vs Helicopters Comparison

[@DoradoFever]

Proof that Army Aviation are the cowboys of the military aviation community 😂

[@bstorm83]

As an AC-130 pilot, the cohesiveness we have with AWT downrange is incredible. It should be noted of the back home struggles of integrating with Vipers and Eagles in getting down the wheel for fighter IP run in while we are shooting

[@196cupcake]

I don't recognize some of your terminology, so if you wouldn't mind clarifying: 1. AWT = Air Weapons Teams? 2. "getting down the wheel for fighter IP run in while we are shooting" ?

[@bstorm83]

@@196cupcake AWT is air weapons team. They are typically Apaches. What I mean by getting down the wheel is practicing integration while we are in the wheel. Sometimes it gets messed up if you are not familiar with the JFIRE

[@196cupcake]

@@bstorm83 Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar, thank you. I see what you mean about practicing integration, but I wonder what the hang up, if any, is. Caution when doing a live fire exercise, where someone is down range, when there's risk they could get shot, is understandable. I always assumed DoD has sophisticated simulators, or at least DCS. Maybe it's hard to do the scheduling, getting everyone together to practice that kind of teamwork.

[@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM]

If you don't, me asking. What does the aircraft feel like when all the weapons are going off during the pylon turn? Is it difficult to hold it on station? Or do you barely even notice it?

[@bstorm83]

@@THE-BUNKEN-DRUM there is a small kick when the 105 goes off. Definitely something you feel but it doesn’t affect the stability of the aircraft or anything.

[@alexanderschwartz4235]

I really appreciate that you guys can talk about the differences with getting getting sucked into the weeds of which is better etc. That you can appreciate the skills and abilities of other pilots in other equipment. Fun conversation. I worked on Apaches but never got to see them do anything other than take off and land. I was on an OP once and I had 2 A10s come in low over my head and soften up a target followed by an AC130. This was at night and was a fun show to watch.

[@michaelr.7054]

My son just passed the Marine flight physical in Pensacola. Getting ready for the November board and hopefully OCS in January...yikes !

[@friendofenkidu3391]

@michaelr.7054: Congratulations to your son for passing NAMI. That's a major obstacle that sidelines many otherwise fine candidates. Also, your son is smart to have an air contract going into OCS. Many wait to bid for an air contract at TBS (The Basic School), which follows OCS, and discover that there are few (if any) spots left. The big problem right now for candidates like your son is that the aviation training pipeline is backed-up (for a variety of reasons), and it may take quite a few years for your son to finish his training and get his first post-training assignment. The timeframe was four years long for my son (he passed NAMI in July 2019, and arrived at his first post-training assignment in July 2023), and he was one of the first members of his OCS/TBS classes to get all the way through. Many of his friends are still in advanced flight training or at the FRS/FRD (Fleet Replacement Squadron or Detachment).

[@Pincer88]

Love these coop episodes! May be nice to get some USMC AH-1 and AV-8BV guys sharing their experiences as wel.

[@GoldPicard]

Well it would give a different perspective yeah, because unlike with the Army everyone in the USMC knows they exist explicitly to support the Marine on thr ground so they have a different philosophy on the role of air power.

[@Pincer88]

@@GoldPicard If I'm not mistaken the USMC also uses EA-18G Growlers and their F-18E/F Rhinos (can) do more than close air support or battlefield air interdiction. And if I'm also not mistaken, AH-1's have been used to counter Iranian go fasts and securing oil rigs in the Persian Gulf. In other words, the USMC aviators may be more versatile than many think. And their perspective on aviators in service of the people on the ground may be different - with pilots also at times having to ground tours in the dirt with the grunts - which may give a unique perspective on air-ground integration. Another aspect are the USMC Commandant's plans to shift the focus of USMC missions, structure and mind set, is that the plan envisages USMC assets operating much more in line with overal naval strategy (specifically aimed at operating within range of Area Denial/Anti Access weapons and establishing/maintaining control of the sea). It's quite possible that this has far reaching implications for how Marine aviators are going to operate (or are in the process of training for). I imagine one of the possibilities might be, that more focus is being put on TASMO (tactical Air Support Maritime Ops), providing air superiority (combat air patrols), anti-shipping and (deep) strike, possibly operating from semi-prepared air strips on small islands similarly like Pappy Boyington's "Black Sheep squadron" used to during WW2. Considering the fact that the USN is now also taking on ships on strength that are designed to base small Army rotary wing assets and small assault or special forces seems to indicate there's a more radical shift from conventional wisdom to a new paradigm in the making. So let's see if any of that can be reflected upon in another video.

[@GoldPicard]

@Pincer88 I agree with most of what you said because I believe the Corps. is gearing itself up to support the Navy in the fight for East& Southern China Seas and that fight will primarily be an Air and Sea fight split between the USAF providing bombers for Anti-ship, SEAD with ER munitions (like JASSAMS, LORASSAMS, Etc), and surface installation attack) C2, ISR, and logistics support plus F-35A's& Raptors all based out of Alaska, Japan, Guam, Diego Garcia, and any other Indo Pacific nations that will allow for basing rights. The Navy will be the main push using carrier groups for most of the fights with Surface-Action groups supplementing and of course the subs doing everything thing they can to sink everything bigger than a RHIB . And the Marines main function like you said will be to take what ever land they can and stuff as Anti-ship batteries, SAMs, and get the Army to provide THAADs(or a direct equivalent) so that we can establish our own coverage areas as well as allowing the Navy to go full EMCON on the Carriers if needed so that China will have a much harder time finding targets and that is also the purpose of getting THAADs so that we have a direct answer to the DF-21 and it's derivations& successors from their strategic Rocket forces because this theater will heavily be dictated by the range of shore installations. Marine air outside of the F-35B probably won't contribute much to the main fight unless they get major support but maybe the H-1's(both of them) can provide local ground& sea interdiction or maybe even put some on the Navy small boys to support the embarked H-60R's&S' because the true advantage China will have in the E&SCS will be ISR capabilities provided by their substantial fishing fleet and unless we are willing to label those civilian ships as hostile the best we could do is just jam and or destroy their transmitters with very precise strike or just use Marines and SEALs to board and remove all surveillance capabilities from them. Either way it will be a very in depth and detailed fight.

[@MadmanJnr]

As an Aussie the thought of Casmo firing his pistol out of his helicopter makes me laugh

[@CasmoTV]

SEE! You guys love that.

[@bjlewis5431]

🤣🍻💙🇦🇺

[@matthewwhite876]

🇦🇺

[@Ariana321]

@@CasmoTV Just a very high tech "drive-by" lol.

[@RedTail1-1]

I was a 13Fox Forward Observer from 06-09 and was "technically" a JTAC. We were taught by Air Force Controllers and then went out on the range and did it for real. That was enough for us to be able to call for Air Support. Helicopters included(Enjoyed the helicopters firing rockets at targets more than the jets)

[@Tyrannosaurus_STFU_III]

Really interesting talk. You should have had a grunt in this conversation. Would be nice to have the opinion of the guy on the ground getting the CAS.

[@billashmorecountry4741]

Trying to picture Mover / Gonky popping a canopy at low level for some M4/ Pistol target practice...there's got to be a caricature out there somewhere!!

[@bengaze4739]

Love your channel it helps me dream that I am back flying as I am no longer able to due to an accident I had on leave after basic training as was meant to be going to RAF Cramwell for Officer training.

[@hansangb]

Love this. MORE please!

[@DavE-FM545]

Thank you SIRS!!!

[@garyshelly6555]

Army Apache pilot drinks a beer, hell yeah that's what I'm talkin about. All you guys are such bad asses.

[@CasmoTV]

I was hydrated enough. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@garyshelly6555]

@@CasmoTV man's gotta do what a man's got to do haha

[@ducedevlstear2471]

How does drinking beer make someone badass ? 😂🤦🏼‍♂️

[@gusm2752]

Great stories. Love this stuff , keep it coming. 👍🇺🇸

[@EbonySeraphim]

Oh man, I love that I was fluent in DCS: A-10C and even some A-10A before the HMD was available. Looking on target and tracking was a different ballgame without it. I used to zoom in a lot more than I have to now.

[@dan200317]

Helicopters sounded pretty crazy vs jets

[@rhysgoodman7628]

Talking about shooting small arms from a helicopter. I got a recommendation letter from a former Nightstalker pilot who got a Silver Star after firing his M4 from the window of his Chinook during a shit-hot, impromptu MEDEVAC in Afghanistan. Helo pilots are gangster for sure!

[@pogo1140]

So in the recent F-35 training documents that were released appears to not have any CAS training scheduled for A-10 squadrons who transition to F-35 nor does any F-35 squadron. What does that mean? Is the USAF abandoning the CAS mission entirely?

[@196cupcake]

I'd guess that it's an issue of not being publicly released, rather than a "real" problem. Half-ass-ing the unclassified version is very in-character for the US military.

[@pogo1140]

@@196cupcake Training costs money and by law USAF is required to send budget requests to the Senate and House and that requires supporting documentation. Also remember that the USAF said when they were asking Congress permission to kill the A-10, they had to justify it by saying that the mission was going to be done by other platforms. So when the platform that is replacing the A-10 has no CAS training scheduled anywhere, one wonders.

[@196cupcake]

@@pogo1140 Oh, for sure, you have a valid point. I just think it's much more likely that CAS training does exist, and the discrepancy that you're seeing is more of an issue of a communication error. Occam's razor, basically. Possibly, other assets fill the potential capability gap, e.g. gun ship. I don't know, and I could be wrong, but my bet is that it is probably fine.

[@pogo1140]

@196cupcake I hope it's fine because that's why the A-10 was built in the first place. Because after the USAF had insisted that it and only it should be the one to have fixed wing attack aircraft, come Korea it did not have any fixed wing attack aircraft nor did they train anyone to do CAS.

[@196cupcake]

@@pogo1140 Yup, and you can't completely rule out incompetence, but with stuff like that there's probably a good explanation. I mean, for a f-up like that to go through that many layers of review and STILL NOT GET CAUGHT? ... not impossible, just very unlikely. I suppose if you want the real answer you'll have to get yourself elected as a Congressional representative, or join the US military and work your way up to a rank and specialty that gives you access to that info. for your job.

[@user-wz2ex7ux9h]

"Stay away from the cans!!!" 🤣😂🤣

[@Brian-WolfmanJack99]

I can see the jealousy in you fixed wing guy's eyes when the rotary wing dude was talking about shooting service weapons out the window. LOL

[@CWLemoine]

Hell yeah!

[@sharizabel2582]

I did radar CAS in the Strike Eagle.

[@BenTrem42]

Relating to Casmo's stuff I realize I know zaroo about '58s!

[@BenTrem42]

p.s. Saw yet another YT exploring "WartHog to be phased out".

[@andreim841]

Fun and informative as always C W, however there seems to be a crackling sound coming from your end when you talk

[@Gunfreak19]

I demand we can shoot the M4 out of the door on the upcoming DCS Kiowa! How awesome would that be in VR.

[@CWLemoine]

I demand we get the Kiowa. Period. How long has it been?!

[@Gunfreak19]

@CWLemoine I think they started work on it around the time MacArthur landed in Inchon.

[@UHN-lg3em]

So weird to hear about how fixed wing did CAS with binos. Never really thought about how different it is from being a Huey aircrew chief with access to a FLIR.

[@JinNani224]

I’ve seen an Apache fly a hundred feet above my shoulder and provide cover fire. THERE IS NO BETTER SUPPORT!

[@jsean13]

When you guys were in your F18/F16 basically loitering to get intel over an area, what speed were you guys normally doing this at?? Like if you were in burner could the ground hear you guys??

[@Harpoon2theRescue]

Can you have a sit down with an AC130 crew?

[@erazorDev]

Really cool stuff.

[@gianmarcotroccolo7113]

do you guys know RIFLE? he is a JTAC, also flies DCS and has a Discord channel as well as a youtube channel

[@VorpalBunnysRevenge]

The Jerk and Scarface in a single video? Sign me up!

[@CWLemoine]

#Culture

[@JH-wd6dp]

Nothing screams 'murica more than a pilot firing a pistol out of a helicopter "just because." Allegedly. Jokingly. ;)

[@CasmoTV]

Can’t say I wasn’t allowed 🤷🏻‍♂️💪🏼

[@JH-wd6dp]

@@CasmoTV Very true! Always a good time when you can add "experience shaping policy on behalf of the government" to your resume!

[@CIDRobT]

More of these talks pls

[@amb1u5]

I can see why my countrymen would find it funny with a dude shooting a pistol out the side of a rotary gunship

[@Tyrannosaurus_STFU_III]

M4 is a rifle

[@CWLemoine]

At the end he talks about shooting his pistol as well. 👍

[@Tyrannosaurus_STFU_III]

@@CWLemoine literally ended a minute early, damn dogs...duly noted

[@196cupcake]

Like most things, the best tool for the job depends on the specifics of the objective we're trying to accomplish. Every tool has its advantages and disadvantages. A YT'er, (I believe) a ret. USAF Colonel, who goes by "nutnfancy," uses "first kind of cool" to distinguish from "second kind of cool." First kind of cool is a question of how appropriate the tool is for the job at hand, and there can be right and wrong answers, like math. Second kind of cool is e.g., "style points," "because I think it looks cool," or "just because"; second kind of cool is a matter of opinion, and there is no one right objective answer; reasonable people can disagree and they can all be right as it applies themselves.

[@PeterMinoz-px3kx]

And how is the F35 going to support ground troops with just a few missiles. The A-10 was a workhorse with a lot of weapons, I have yet to see a F35 carry all the weapons an A-10 can.

[@paulblack5883]

The Air Force is slashing the TACP force about in half..folks are cross training or shown the door 🚪. The AF also was given the full green light to divest in the A10 over the next 5 to 10 years..

[@generalpurpose6517]

Well as a civilian helicopters are way more interesting than fixed-wing aircraft. And I don't even have a rotary wing rating LOL.