D&D Falls Apart without This Dragon

Something that D&D gets really right is the timeless archetypes at its core. The gold dragon takes the archetypes of hero, dragon, and treasure, and puts them into one creature that is greater than the sum of its parts-a transcendent symbol that gives us something to seek beyond the cycle of dungeon delves. Without the potential to transcend, the repetition of endless grinding would eventually go stale and crumble away.
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#dndmonster #dungeonsanddragons #lore

[@haillobster7154]

The first two words that lit up in my mind like a neon sign when I read this title was "RED DRAGON". The creature / entity most normies visualize when they hear the phrase "Dungeons and Dragons". Since I was a child and didn't know anything about this game or any ttrpg for that matter, I only knew of Dungeons and Dragons as 'something, something, with a red dragon!' 🐉

[@esperthebard]

For sure, the red dragon is the most iconic D&D monster. The gold dragon is the transcended version of the red dragon.

[@off6848]

@@esperthebardit seems like everyone is trying to jettison the Gold Dragon there’s a lot of hate for them in D&D lore videos They seem to hate the idea of a pure and lawful authority It’s almost like some people are too proud to accept the idea of a great Lawful Good authority Curiously no one really minds Asmodeus the Law Evil authority counter part It seems most people think of Law as an evil tyranny in general so for them lawful evil makes more sense But without law there is no logic no laws of physics and no repeatability or lasting value I blame modern school systems for skipping classical philosophy and as you can probably tell I’m a total Stan and champion of Gold Dragons I love the idea of a no bs grand power that is a manifestation of law and good itself great stories can come out of this

[@off6848]

@@esperthebardwhy do you think people seem to dislike the Gold Dragons? I noticed they get a lot of hate I think it has to do with the pride you mentioned in the videos I find that more philosophically anti theist players tend to resent any notion of a lawful and good authority of immense power

[@DragovianLancer]

Metallic dragons in general are some of my favorite D&D creatures. Dragons as a force of good is one of my favorite tropes and it has so much potential for storytelling. Imagine a party who needs power beyond themselves to save the day, who go on an epic quest full of danger to find and convince an ancient dragon to join their side, or a dragon acting as a sage that gives the party the wisdom they need to continue their adventures, or a dragon that the party assists early on only to return when they needed him most. They're kind, friendly creatures but if you earn their ire they'll show you that they're just as powerful as their chromatic cousins. The ability to shift into human form alone gives them so many possibilities for narrative, roleplay, and twists. So yeah, I couldn't see D&D without them either.

[@RachDarastrix2]

It is kinda interesting. Imagine a human using a spell to turn himself into a meerkat and hanging out with meerkats in the Serengeti.

[@christianlangdon3766]

​@@RachDarastrix2 that's just Tim the druid.

[@redfaux74]

Dragovian - Yes. It takes me back to 2E when the game made sense. Look at the Tarrasque. It was a creature that made Liches scared. You had to figure out how to kill it creatively, uniquely. It could not be killed the same way twice. Every so many years it came back impervious to whatever killed it last time. It was immune to just about everything. You needed a Gold Dragon of high Int and high Wis to even think about the task. And at best.... you could only sedate it for a few hundred years with the greatest of magics. You had to go on adventures to find something to be able to hurt a Tarrasque. You had to overcome riddles, go to other planes of existence, make armor unique to even approach the monster without dying in the first 10 seconds.... Today the Tarrasque is basically a big alligator. But back then you needed the Gold Dragon for his history of what that thing had been killed by in failed attempts and successful attempts. Kingdoms NEEDED Gold Dragons. They were basically NPC dungeon masters. They remind me oddly of the 5th Element movie. All the pieces had to come together perfectly because the evil was at your doorstep. And the Gold Dragon was your centerpiece. Your wisdom.

[@off6848]

@@redfaux74I think it’s a result of the general dumbing down and marvel super herofication of the game Player characters see no need for immensely powerful good aligned creatures after all every Tabaxi warlock fursona is actually more powerful than their own patrons all player characters consider killing gods another Tuesday with the boys What do we need good dragons for when nothing in the universe has any weight or stands any chance against the great wisdom and invincibility of the Lawful Good aligned Necro player character that makes undead slave armies from every person who opposes his divine mortal powers 🙄

[@redfaux74]

@@off6848 - Yes, I would say it's become Dragon Ball Z-ish. No brains, just keep rolling d6 until you're tired. Then get a bigger d6 with a diff color.... and keep rolling that. Then get 6,000 dice and roll those.... 🤢🤮

[@jay_caspian2050]

You are an amazing storyteller.

[@raytheerudite5252]

I think this is just what I needed.

[@redfaux74]

Most DMs are not capable of doing a Gold Dragon justice. A supremely high intellect, massive psionic abilities, vast innate magic abilities, physical senses most animals cannot comprehend.... combined with a super high wisdom?!? Combined WITH a super high wisdom?!? 😕 A super high Int AND super high Wis should be game changers when you consider psionics and magic alone. Add their natural psionic and magic to that? The potential is exponential with each. I don't think many understand that at all.

[@SkyDragon90]

Ive always considered the silver dragon my favorite, even above the red. But as I have run my dragon-centric campaign, I've really loved the gold dragon that serves as an advisor to the King. Stepping up when his last king dies, entering politics, encouraging his silver dragon friend to take the throne and the helm against the Cult of Tiamat. He is a major player in the story, and i wouldn't have it any other way.

[@esperthebard]

Silver is probably my favorite as well. Gold represents the metallic dragons overall though, just as red does for chromatics.

[@BobCain2006]

Esper you are a never ending source of encouragement and inspiration. Thank you for all you do.

[@steveblunden2295]

I did stop by - and found that this was surprisingly Good and Positive - Poetic even. The Bard is most welcome to come to these Halls again 😊

[@chrisg8989]

I've never been a fan of the "good dragons." In my humble opinion, dragons should stay true to their roots. The epitome of mans fear of what goes bump in the night. Man eaters. Animals that are physically superior to man, but which we have overcome through our intellect and cooperation with one abother. The dragon is the ultimate compilation of man eats, its the Serpent, the lion, the Bat, and their breath; the unquestionable power that is mother nature in its rawest form.

[@redfaux74]

I don't think most DMs can do them justice.

[@NageIfar]

Mostly with you there. I much prefer them as evil beasts, though i have seen good depictions of benevolent dragons, like in "Priory of the Orange Tree" where you have evil Western (Fire themed, from the earth) and benevolent Eastern (Water themed, from the stars) dragons. Overall i find something like Dragonslayer Codex far more intriguing than D&D dragons though.

[@off6848]

What you’re describing is what we have demons for imo I like good dragons because for me dragons represent raw power Raw power of good, evil, ego, virtue etc.. I really love both good , neutral and evil dragons super classic powerful creatures

[@migueldelmazo5244]

Old DnD art is the best DnD art. Thx for the video.

[@Notsidgaming]

And now the floodgates of character creation for my next Ichoros character have opened. Thank God for Monstrous Heroes.

[@purplehaze2358]

"You have to get mountain right first before you can have volcano." If I recall correctly, there's a category of volcano that is not a mountain, but a big hole in the ground that erupts sometimes.

[@redfaux74]

I think you totally missed the point altogether.

[@bluebird3281]

Caldera

[@purplehaze2358]

@@redfaux74 Naaah, I got the point lmao This comment is just an expression of my soft affinity for volcanology, not trying to address a point one way or the other.

[@off6848]

@@purplehaze2358those aren’t volcanoes though volcanoes specifically refers to “a mountain or hill, typically conical, having a crater or vent through which lava, rock fragments, hot vapor, and gas are being or have been erupted from the earth's crust.”

[@JaymeSplendid]

When -TSR- WoTC tried to kill the homebrew and 3rd party license by essentially extortion, I've gave up on them and REFUSE to spend any more money on official modules. I don't want to hurt the authors and decide to support them in other ways when I do, uh, "USE" newer modules when I have no other choice. Lucky there's DECADES of great content and homebrew modules that can easily be updated to a newer ruleset if need be, tho I may be on the minority but I really like playing the older rulesets (THAC0 FOR LIFE!!11!) anyway

[@atlasdm]

The problems that D&D has now is that there is no foundation. WotC saw a huge influx of players and jumped straight to remix. So very few 5e players understand the archetypes or foundations of the game.

[@off6848]

Yeah in the beginning the nerds who played mostly all had at least a passing interest in the mythopoetica and classics These days that’s western chauvinism and racis we just wanna create from the ground up and pull out of our asses from whatever pop culture references we want because we’re better than Homer or Lau Tzu because our haircuts are cooler than those old wyt guys

[@ScythianGryphon]

This is so true! The very foundation of our civilization lies within myth and legend. The deepest understanding of the world through religion, philosophy and science traces its lineage to mythology.

[@joboyogi]

Definitely appreciate that your criticism is generally on the constructive side. Not so much of the folks in those opening thumbnails. Had to fully block some just to keep on the green side of sanity.

[@purplehaze2358]

I don't think there is a singular "evil seed from which all bad fruit spring". Truth is, morality is a complex subject, and immorality can have a wide range of causes that are all entirely unrelated. And if there is, it certainly is not pride. A man with no pride, who truly resents himself on a deep and fundamental level, is no less capable of doing wrong than a man with a messiah complex.

[@Snowie7826]

Being so negatively fixated on yourself is just another expression of pride.

[@esperthebard]

Pride is not the root of all bad things. Like, there are tragedies and plain misfortunes. But it's certainly the root of all malevolent evil, of all sin.

[@purplehaze2358]

@@esperthebard ..This comment's aim was to challenge that very notion. Pride can only be considered the _root of all evil_ in Christian faith - and even then, the Bible itself is, to my understanding, the origin of the phrase "greed is the root of all evil".

[@purplehaze2358]

@@Snowie7826 ...That is literally oxymoronic.

[@Snowie7826]

​@@purplehaze2358Think about it for 5 minutes.

[@NageIfar]

I fear the point of this video really went over my head, because i don't see having gold dragons as essential/important at all.

[@LevattWolfheart]

Symbolism.

[@esperthebard]

If there were nothing transcendent that unifies us, then we would just be stuck in endless vicious cycles.

[@lead.farmer]

@@esperthebard still dont see what this has to do with gold dragons. i love your content but this is the first time one of your videos has stumped me.

[@off6848]

@@lead.farmerimo he’s talking about the importance of having creatures that embody the raw essence of virtues they are transcendent beings beyond mortals I think I agree with him it just makes for more interesting worlds when transcendent themes can be embodied and explored through mythic immensely powerful beasts It’s the difference between saying Demogorgon is strong and powerful because he’s fueled by pure evil energy rather than because he just did more pushups than lesser demons

[@lead.farmer]

@@off6848 that makes sense. thank you for the explanation.

[@callumarmitage4828]

Nice video dude. Really cool summary of the vital aspects of the game. Much enjoy

[@Yarradras]

I disagree - partially. In my eyes, there should only be "dragon". Then individual dragons take this template and personify it in specific, altering and transcending ways. There is the dragon "Smaug" who is red in color, greedy and ultimately evil. And there is "Saphira" who carries a human into battle. And there should be the potential for a red dragon that does not have wings, that is not evil, that does not breathe fire. And there should be oppportunity for a blue dragon of a different disposition. I think the metallic and chromatic archetypes make dragons extremely boring and template-y. What you talk about should happen with the individual character, not for whole-subcategories of a monster type. Give them personality instead of turning them into statblocks.

[@off6848]

It’s because they’re archetypal that’s the whole point they stand for transcendent values and forces Personally there’s nothing more boring to me than the way you outlined everything is sort of just everything at once no point to the colors or types of dragons beyond minor aesthetics bland

[@drekbleh7081]

New plot idea from this video: A Gold dragon egg, you must protect over many campaigns for it to hatch and grow into an objectively good force in the world, while the world's inhabitants try to snuff it out for short-term gain or out of ignorance. A commentary of greedy intentions of selling out the future for the now and/or about the world's cynicism for a better tomorrow? I'm not sure, throwing ideas that this video inspired me against the wall, to be honest

[@lihanchai154]

It was that image of a Gold Dragon teaching a small humanoid female that has stuck with me throughout the years. It has filled my mind with many wonderous tales of the friendship between metallic dragons and mortals. And I will continue to do so even if ever DnD officially ends.

[@MDPrepper]

This video was sponsored by Joeseph Campbell, The Hero's Journey, and The Power of Myth.

[@BanjoSick]

I don‘t think D&D is basic vanilla at all. Especially ad&d 1E is full of flavors not known before in Fantasy, the whole cosmology, the alignment system and the monsters are very unique and it’s biggest draw. The system is quite bad but the feel is great!!!

[@redfaux74]

I think it died after 2E.

[@NageIfar]

As someone who started with 5e and really dislikes the Forgotten Realms; reading about older lore i started to realize just how much was lost or watered down.

It's been some time since I played, Does V5.5 have rules for building your own castle or keep and running a kingdom for players? Those rules were the rules that we used a lot when our characters started getting to high level. In most cases our old characters became the NPC's who sent our new characters on quests or offered them aid and succor when the players reached dark and hopeless times.

[@jamiemcdonough6548]

Esper The Bard, I like these videos when you talk about a subject that is dear to your heart. Where you aren't suggesting a tip on how to play Dungeons & Dragons, but rather something that moves you emotionally and you're merely giving your opinion. Where I might not learn how to play the game better, but rather I just have to trust this is about appreciating the worldbuilding more.

[@ShineDark]

Gold Dragons have always been my favorite.

[@stephenmckee3235]

A fictional planet full of the typical humanoids who once revered, worshipped, or feared dragons. During in industrialization dragons nearly become legend to myth after disappearing over the course of a few thousand years. For example a forest dragon deep in the wilderness. Black Dragons in the swamps of a continent cut off by mountains.

[@StoryWeaverSteve]

Gotta have the Gold Dragon

[@jasonhawkins6888]

Esper, I'm sure your table is amazing to play at... but I ain't so sure D&D has strong archetypes at its core anymore. Good DMs will always run good games, but in the material as it's written THESE days seems more bent on breaking the stereotypes of heroic fiction. Great video, Esper. Keep killing it 💪

[@ddstuff3943]

Hey Esper, I think a great idea for your next video would be talking about the crafting of magical items throughout different editions. I've done some digging myself, and there is a lot of interesting mechanics and lore from older editions that can be brought to 5E, but I think you'd be way more qualified and skilled to talk and make a video about.

[@cxa24]

It should fall apart as we are their only (renewable) asset, apparently. Likely exhausted all other life in the universe

[@anonymouse2675]

Lawful Neutral Bladesinger Wizard to a bunch of Bandits trying to rob some commoners in front of them. "You can either come with me willingly to be tried and probably executed, or you can choose to die with a blade in your hands right now. I don't particularly care which. Choose."

[@MarvelX42]

Great video man. Exactly, perfectly the kind of video that the D&D community needs.

[@numina0079]

Dungeon crawling (and wilderness adventures) are the best thing about dungeons and dragons. Sad that modern d&d just doesn't do that anymore.

[@miggypeso909]

I love that Wolfen necromancer pic, it’s from Palladium Fantasy though.

[@squashedeyeball]

Well put. Although, a red dragon is perhaps the foundation of d&d, as it's the classic "go to scary dungeon, kill and get treasure/save be the hero". Unless you choose better, and ally with the dragon, or keep the treasure for yourself. After all, you just carried a literal ton, as in 1000 kgs of gold, for dozens of miles in each direction.

[@fake-king3837]

See even if you have a video that I can't finish, I give it a listen because not only the way you format it is entertaining but I respect your opinion.

[@thorgornironfist]

Great video!

[@AndrewBrownK]

loved this, very thoughtful. Fantasy is important to our souls

[@starcrafter13terran]

I do hope it becomes less popular. I'm tired of all the fakers and posers.

[@sko_psy]

I guess you've read The Hero with a Thousand Faces ? Great video! Thanks as always 🤝🏼

[@archersfriend5900]

Barbarians shouldn't teleport!

[@juliengosselin4277]

...But I prefer Silver Dragons...

[@Ekaidseaky]

I disagree that gold dragons are peak monster design or even npc design. Because flat out they are just too good to be not contrived as a foe. And too powerful to be an interesting enough npc

[@off6848]

I think that’s just a lack of imagination I’ve never had a problem using Gold Dragon lore in my games it’s always interesting I’ve had GDs disguised as old hobos on the road that players chose to abuse and cheat just to find out later that they missed out on a weapon of mass destruction for an ally All kinds of great hooks for GDs 💪

[@kapteinkaos6081]

I love your vids, man ! ^^

[@whitleypedia]

what is the difference bronze and brass dragons

[@off6848]

Bronze are marine dragons typically and brass are arid desert dragons

[@Abrahamrengifo]

this was really cool.

[@anathema1828]

Excellent content!

[@AbsenceOfContrition]

Outstanding

[@sarico7827]

You know as long as it doesn't destroy the timeless archs I think we will have some fun. I agree you need good dirt before you plant the trees. I guess I'm a old grumbler so yes I don't like the new boss/ poor choices in direction and well wotc grumble grumble. I still love the game most of the time. Really the reason why I started to play is I wanted to do a fun story time with people I can become and call friends. Dragons?! SUPER METAL!!!!

[@homebrewisthebestbrew5270]

Metallics don't get talked about nearly enough! As a DM, my favorite gold was Merkalian ("Cloud of Dawn"), whose hoard was nothing but a library and a laboratory. He had treasure to be sure, but only as a means to acquire buy new books and replace components; aside from that, money meant little to him. He was odd only in his reclusive nature--given the importance and sensitivity of his research, guests were by appointment only, and were carefully screened. Dealing with the party was by pure accident; he was not happy to see them, at least at first. Then there was Verdigris, a young copper often at the mercy of a much older blue. His hoard was a pittance, earning him the nickname "Verdigris"--in that, in spite of his youth, neighboring dragons considered him a lost cause--so washed up as to be prematurely "corroded". Fed up with the abuse and disrespect, he joined up with a mid-level party and regained his draconic spirit through success in battle in the service of good. And the nobility of his deeds followed him home in due course. Lastly. there was Fanfare, a young brass that could barely fly, maimed in an earthquake as the roof of his lair collapsed on him. Soon later, the pain of his injuries caused him to catastrophically miscast a spell, leaving him "cursed"'...his surface thoughts would spring unbidden into reality. (Example: When he introduced himself to the party, a half-dozen trumpets appeared and let loose with a brassy, um, fanfare. Many of the PCs took pity on him, though they didn't let it show.) It took the poor thing centuries to gain control over the affliction, though it still poked through when under severe emotional stress. It left the brass with a deep empathy for the weak and downtrodden, leading to him becoming a cleric. My homebrew world would be a lot less magical without the metallics.

[@aaronsalinas3854]

Many higher ups want white men gone from the game. Don't just push it aside. I know you don't want to get caught up in it but they have messed up a lot.

[@thesagepilgrim4441]

At a conference and I can’t listen with volume yet, but commenting early in the playtime for the eldritch algorithmic gods

[@xxTerraPrimexx]

Well said, and the art choices were really on point too! I love the divine statue at the 'transcend' point.

[@jasonhull8075]

Thanks for keeping on, love your content!

[@Jason-96]

I love everything Esper the Bard!!!

[@projectarduino2295]

The best of the best come from transcendence.

[@TheLastWhiteKid]

Great video bro, simple and sweet

[@tiagghho]

First!

[@rodrigopinheiro3968]

boriiiing . . .

[@redfaux74]

You should go to a hobby store, buy some more d6 (like about 50 of them) and just roll until your satisfied.