Daily Driving XPZ 3800 Supercharged Fiero + First 1/4 mi Pulls, Year End Review

[@FieroAustin]

Amazon Recommendation Store for 3800s/Fieros/Tools amzn.to/3hNViaa 3800sc Instructions www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html 3800sc Instructions MOBILE drive.google.com/file/d/1wqUJdMZ1XqcKJzC-2ZzbvLYMYE3QbmVq eBay affiliate (use & I get paid) ebay.us/4gTj2A Donate to me www.paypal.com/donate/?business=8AFWKBTBVSKTJ Join channel membership kzbin.infojoin Subscribe kzbin.info Consulting on Facebook facebook.com/FieroAustin/

[@l042987]

The new xp rpm cam is smooth at idle..

[@FieroAustin]

they're both going to be comparable. my vibration is from the balance shaft deletion and poly engine mounts, which I changed.

[@l042987]

@@FieroAustin I have the delete.. Poly engine cradle bushings and rubber mounts.. Zero vibration. The old xp cam.. Vibrated yes.. New xp rpm cam.. None

[@FieroAustin]

​@@l042987 wow interesting!!! Thanks for the FYI. Surprised at that because XP RPM and XPZ should be same tolerances allegedly. It could also be the adjustable dogbone and SFI Balancer; I have one now but when it was vibrating bad I didn't. How about you?

[@l042987]

@@FieroAustin fieros with 3800sc swaps dont even need the dogbones tbh that doesn't effect vibration or anything at all.. The cradles were built to handle v8s up to 400hp that's from the designers mouth! But yes I had the xp cam and it vibrated hard.. Changed to xp rpm grind that just came out last year and smooth as can be! The poly cradle bushings make a good difference as well.. But honestly it's the cam grind they made it way smoother it's a world of difference.. I have stock v6 rubber mounts poly cradle bushings and that's it

[@FieroAustin]

@@l042987 awesome thanks for the info

[@brap_stu_tu_tu]

Just picked up a GTP a few days ago to start my 84 Fiero swap! Thank you so much for all the information you have given the community. I mean this from the bottom of my heart brother. 🤟🏻

[@FieroAustin]

Pleasure my friend! Good luck with the swap!!!

[@BassManBobBassCovers]

Such great info thank you!

[@FieroAustin]

Welcome!!

[@Shamphere]

Thanks for sharing this for us potential Fiero owners.

[@FieroAustin]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@That_Handle]

5:00 - [Note:] Fiero tail light lenses by Keith Goodyear (seal them as per instructions).

[@FieroAustin]

Yeah good idea to do - i was afraid I'd have to take them apart again so I skipped it, and I was right... glad I didn't now. Be sure to use a non-hardening silicone if you do though.

[@clintbriant8508]

Man, I love the gt fiero. Sweet build brother

[@FieroAustin]

Thanks!!

[@RearEngineShop]

I need to get my Fiero’s to the track. Daily drove my 84 Wide Body with the 3800SC swap all summer and really enjoyed it.

[@FieroAustin]

Thank you!

[@anthonymacaluso1488]

Thank you sooo much for your opinions and all the useful info you provide to all of us, my dad had a trick with his old jetboat and drilled a couple holes, i think 1/8 through the thermostat and it would always be moving some coolant. I want to swap my fiero sometime but its a large order for a engine swap

[@FieroAustin]

welcome! I did that too on my first thermostat. it really only helps with burping the system to be honest.

[@MrItsCurious]

Best Cam for u is the Vs Cam from ZZP has a ton of low end torque and mid range perfect for daily’s and dig races

[@FieroAustin]

VS or XP for sure. Although this XPZ idles pretty smooth. Was just a lot of effort and I never utilize the power... Just for bragging rights at the track I guess

[@MrItsCurious]

@@FieroAustin that’s good to hear that it’s really only good for super aggressive drivers and track guys that want the best time. But I have both the VS and XP I will get to drive my XP hopefully this month

[@FieroAustin]

@@MrItsCurious Let me know how it shapes up! Any significant differences between the two from daily driving?

[@drsethsr]

Glad you are honest. You built it as a race car, and they are not good for daily drivers.

[@FieroAustin]

Thanks. After changing the engine mounts back to rubber and welding in some extra mufflers, it's actually much improved. A lot better for dailying and even taking road trips now.

[@bencorder2544]

I’m no mechanic by no means but i noticed your oil pressure gauge fluctuating. Is that normal because I noticed mine does that as well and I thought something might be wrong 😅

[@FieroAustin]

do yo have a timestamp? I think it might be more of a voltage issue. If there is a turn signal on, a lot of my gages fluctuate slightly.

[@miked6434]

I been watching your vids on this build. My car will be a daily driver but I want it smooth idling and still fast. Your honest opinion on this build was 'entertaining' and has helped me decide what I really need. My goal is just over 300 hp, so my cam will be the VS cam, not the XP as I thought I'd like, and some roller rockers along with my upgraded GenV on 3.4 pulley with Northstar TB. I'm planning on using E85. Thanks for what you've done in the 3800SC world. The dime story was funny but also a nitemare!

[@FieroAustin]

Sounds like a great setup! Yeah that balance shaft removal is a game changer. Make sure you can fit custom rockers with a different camshaft; best thing to do would be to call ZZP or follow the product descriptions. I think you would be a bit north of 300hp with that setup to be honest, and you could probably get away with slightly smaller pulley sizes too.

[@550sized]

@@FieroAustin thanks for the info Austin, I already installed sound proofing when I redid my interior, but then went with a straight pipe set up on my 2.8. CC industries makes silencer inserts, check them out, they make a difference. My 3800 build has a vs cam, 105 valve springs ( 5 speed manual), and a 3.2 pulley. Will do the phenolic spacer too. I pulled the balance shaft out, should be good with the VS cam... pics on my Instagram Mik3sworld

[@boostedbird4799]

Torque app is not very accurate in terms of hp ratings, or 1/4 mile times. I use it to monitor kr in my m90'd 01 Firebird, I tried it once and the app said I made close to 400 torque and a 9 second 0-60 with a 3.6" pulley gen V, and full exhaust lmaoo. When I did dyno and 1/4 it, I did 215 whp / 307 wtrq. And a 14.4 at 95 mph. On 6 psi. The 12.7 1/4 you got I do actually think is plausible just because of how light a Fiero is. Sweet build man!! Subbed

[@FieroAustin]

Thanks! Hey do you have any idea how the torque app calculates engine power? Anyways, that 1/4 mile short-shifting implies 305whp. Still needs tweaked.

[@davidlee3203]

Is it meant to be that slow 14 sec 0 to 100kh?

[@FieroAustin]

thats mph lol.

[@davidlee3203]

@FieroAustin oh good that pleases me to hear I really like that engine I was hoping it wasn't that slow haha lol

[@FieroAustin]

@@davidlee3203 LOL oh no. A stock 3800 can probably get you around a 13 second quarter mile.

[@racerd9669]

Change the camshaft your heating problems will go away.

[@FieroAustin]

cam is a pretty cool running one. recent radiator upgrade and fixed radiator seals/baffles solved the issue.

[@theguy497]

gotta love that ole boost gauge. same one on my turbo sunbird, tho mine dont get pegged like that lol

[@FieroAustin]

this thing is perfect.... if you ever get rid of the sunbird hit me up haha.

[@tomaszstarling]

How Much?

[@FieroAustin]

$200k. lol

[@seanof30306]

Very cool car! Does it get into closed loop with the 180 degree thermostat? I love that squinty headlight look. How do you do that? What headlights did you use?

[@FieroAustin]

Thanks man! Yes, it is in closed loop. On a stock tune, open loop is disabled above 54 degrees F of coolant. For the headlights, check out this headlight here amzn.to/3O7mTxA and this video and description - kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpakhmmeps-gerc

[@Toys4Life]

Seems like most of you annoyance has to do with NHV. I think I can help - I went thru this with mine years ago. I think you are correct that your cam is a part of that but I wonder if your motor mounts are too stiff too. I have played around with mine thru the years and went from super annoying & tons of NHV to barely worse than stock levels. What motor mounts are you using? Poly will rattle your teeth out. Even Rubber lower mounts with a Poly dogbone that is "preloaded" against its chassis mount will annoy the hell out of you. Make sure everything is rubber and make sure you dogbone has at least one of the bushings with softer rubber and that its length is sized so that at idle it is not tight against the chassis - this allows the engine to vibrate freely - without transmitting a lot of NHV to the chassis at idle and cruise (which is 99% of the time). If you can leave it so that at idle the dogbone really isn't "rigid" at idle/light cruise - (and it shouldn't be tight at idle/cruise because at zero or low load the engine is not applying any torque to the wheels. This way the can vibrate (as every engine does- some more than others) without needlessly transmitting the NHV into the chassis. If you leave about 3/16" slop in the dog bone it will tignten up nicely as soon as you accelerate (which you want to avoid excessive engine movement), but at idle/low load it makes things 10 times better inside. I really believe this is you issue and when sorted out will make your driving experience MUCH better. Good luck to you!!

[@FieroAustin]

Bingo, I'm using Rodney Dickman's poly motor mounts. rodneydickman.com/product_info.php?products_id=73 Have you got a link to where I can look at some rubber ones? I hadn't thought of an adjustable dogbone, sounds worth looking into. Even the dogbone is poly. Thanks for the idea!!

[@Toys4Life]

@@FieroAustin . I have the stock v6 rubber on the passenger side lower, front driver side lower is for a stock 97 regal GS and the drivers side lower is rubber mount for a dodge truck - Napa part # Bk 602-1346. For the dog bone I just fabbed it up with a couple rubber mounts modified from the regal gs. I played with the length by cutting and re-welding until it was just right allowing the engine to vibrate at idle with no "preload" against where it mounts next to the pass side strut tower. Change these all out and I am POSITIVE 70% or more of you NHV will be gone.

[@FieroAustin]

@@Toys4Life Thank you so much!!!

[@Toys4Life]

@@FieroAustin You're welcome. I know what it's like to have a car that I love, but I don't want to drive because it annoys me. This should really help your Fiero daily driving experience out immensely!

[@Casey_and_Cars]

Does this have the factory crossover pipe and manifolds? Have you considered the ZZP Equalizer or long tubes?

[@FieroAustin]

It has custom stainless headers, check it out here kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIfWpHiwp5emmck I just put some bottle mufflers on which took the edge off, see here amzn.to/3uObGeu but no it does not have equal length headers. Those are a bit pricey.

[@hayden6056]

Air to air intercooled with stock cam and 1.98 ratio rockers there's been a fair few guys getting 11's or low 12's on drag radials with another 300 lbs then you and only 250-300 wheel horsepower. If you put this on a dyno I'd estimate 250-280 rear wheel HP. The xpz cam you want to spinning it to around 6900 in an auto. Peak powers usually 6500-6600 but helps get it into the next gear better. It loses a little down low but it's why you want a stall converter. Don't forget an xpz cam non intercooled lets you run up to .4" smaller pulley compared to rockers. So you'd probably be down on average power reverting back to stock cam. Honestly it needs e85 , a cooler and a 3k stall.

[@FieroAustin]

i think i mislabeled 350whp for 350chp earlier. Re-visiting the calculator i got 340chp for my time and 303whp @ 3150lbs @ 12.71 1/4 yeah, i'm not very impressed with this converter. I'm aware of where I need to be shifting; I only short-shifted 1st gear though. Not intercooling. I'm prepared to go E85. Not too interested in keeping drag radials around right now though. Not very clear on your rocker/pulley comment? Not planning on reverting cams to stock. Oddly my OBDLink app estimated 405 crank horsepower the other day. I'm not sure how it estimates that, are you?

[@hayden6056]

@@FieroAustin no idea I've usually used dynos or scales and mph. Those apps are honestly a joke. You were saying with the xpz and having to remove the balance Shaft pulley to fit the dual row timing chain. You'd probably not do it again and would only probably run rockers. More low down power and less work. Was just stating that you couldn't run as smaller pulley with just rockers and you're probably making the same or more under the curve now then flowing less CFM on a larger pulley and smaller cam at same rpm.

[@FieroAustin]

@@hayden6056 yep, right on.

[@turboslugfiero]

Yeah, sound insulation 😣😫 I have the same problem. It gets loud! I'll have to fix it one day.... For the cooling, I think the 3800 does have some overheating issues when loaded up on the track. I havn't found a good solution yet.....? Except cutting holes in the hoods/bonnets🤨 That I don't want to do. For the grip, you will need sticky tyres!

[@FieroAustin]

Extra bottle mufflers and engine mounts took out quite a bit of harshness and noise. Thing is pretty good on road trips now! I did just get new tires too. Also I put in a new radiator, found that my air dam and radiator baffling/seals were gone!

[@franktedeschi5331]

Same I had to swap specialties do my harness and they didn’t pin for it either I was wondering if I should add it in. But if you’re not having any problems I’m sure I’ll be fine. Are you running air-conditioning. I was looking for somebody to make the conversion pipe from the 3800 compressor to the Fiero lines. I bought something from West Coast Fiero‘s but I’m not sure if I feel comfortable with it. For oil pressure did you just use the Fiero sending unit. And temperature I was going to get the three terminal sending unit for the 3800 I heard I could wire that into the Fiero gauge.

[@FieroAustin]

You got all that right. I have an AC hose made but never charged my system; I would have to swap out the o-rings with hydrogenated Nitrile and the orifice tube. I did have to get an AC pressure sensor fitting welded to my hose. Depending on what car yours is off of, you might already have one. Orifice tube here - www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/pontiac,1988,fiero,2.8l+173cid+v6,1249208,heat+&+air+conditioning,a/c+orifice+tube,6936 Oil pressure I used the '88 oil sender here - www.rockauto.com/en/parts/airtex/wells,1S6635,oil+pressure+sender+/+switch,4588 oil pressure sensor connector - www.rockauto.com/en/parts/standard+motor+products,HP4480,oil+pressure+sender+/+switch+connector,2603 and here is the 3 pin temp sensor - www.autozone.com/engine-management/coolant-temperature-sensor/duralast-gold-coolant-temperature-sensor-tu178dg/625841_71058_0 Have you seen my parts lists? www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/139530.html#p5

[@franktedeschi5331]

@@FieroAustin thanks so much I’m going to check it out now. I’m very close to install. Just want to cross all my t ‘s.

[@jefftrue7717]

Austin you would end up pulling the motor to change the oil pan gasket. The full gasket across has the pick up tube through it. No easy way as I found out myself.

[@FieroAustin]

Thanks for the info. I think I'll let it leak for now haha!

[@Friedbrain11]

I had a turbo 3.8 and it didn't have a balance shaft and it never had the vibration problems. That sound level was too much even for me. Why would you eliminate the evap system? No gains to be made from doing that.

[@FieroAustin]

Got rid of evap just to clean up the engine bay. And it was rusted through. What RPM did your turbo setup idle at?

[@Friedbrain11]

@@FieroAustin I kept it at 750 in drive. Turbo 200r trans. I found out the turbo was a real problem with oil viscosity:( Get that wrong and it would about quit on you. Make it too thin and the bearing ofc would be fried. So it too has its problems LOL Understand about evap. A vented cap is all you can do unless install new evap. Pain in the rear these old emissions systems.

[@turboslugfiero]

Yeah, it's not the vibration. Above idle, the 3800 without a balance shaft is OK. It's the noise that gets to you - mixture of exhaust drone and a general spinning whine!

[@FieroAustin]

@@turboslugfiero for sure, anything 1000rpm or more is totally fine. just low idle vibration is bad.

[@ninjarider1156]

do you run an intercooler on it? if not you should really check out getting one

[@FieroAustin]

I don't. I'm afraid I have enough power that I would need a massively more expensive transmission if I increase it anymore. I don't want the extra complexity either.

[@matthewanderson7766]

Sweet build what transmission is in it

[@FieroAustin]

4t65e-hd, with a hardened input shaft and hardened pump shaft.

[@franktedeschi5331]

Hey bro love the build. Trying to finish up mine. Did you use the boost control solenoid. Or just left the boost control module bottom port open

[@FieroAustin]

Left it open. Unfortunately the harness I got was not pinned for that. Hasn't been a problem. Sometimes might lead to funny idling.

[@netappwprwic1923]

What material did you use to create the blue Pontiac in your taillights?

[@FieroAustin]

I bought it that way. I think it was a kit that was for sale on Fierofiberglass once upon a time, which is now gone. Check out the tail light vid if you want a closer look: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZO8e4uaeqafpqM

[@dcwcustoms]

It’s a nice car but there’s no way your making 400hp in that. Maybe like 280 that pull was way to slow to be making that kinda of power

[@FieroAustin]

yeah that pull was bad. i let off before the 1/4th mile though. the 405hp is a crank HP measurement. it really does get that high but im not entirely sure how the app estimates that. Of course if it shifted right/launched better/ran e85 it'd be a different story. Even without the above, a 12.71 quarter mile is pretty quick... oh and i don't have the best matched torque converter, but it is pretty good for daily driving, not pulling.

[@jcmusco]

I will stick with my 2.8. It runs good enough for me.

[@FieroAustin]

haha glad you think so.