Why The Bike Industry Is Failing

[@ionious97]

Maybe... just maybe pricing simply got out of control. I mean when you are choosing between a used car or new bike the value equation had to come into question...

[@border304]

Not all bikes are stupid expensive. You could buy a cheaper option. You could say the same thing about an expensive car vs a house. So many people crying over what they cannot afford. I'd like a private island. You don't hear me complaining.

[@-kaster--kaster-6090]

@@border304 what a cuck! Yes charge me more ! Lmao fuck them companies they always make the employees and consumers take an L. Lower the prices everything is so expensive rn people aren’t trying to spent 5k on bike rn

[@Bigred10101]

I have worked in the bike industry for a number of years and I do agree that over covid the pricing of everything bike related got out of control as companies would jack up prices for no reason other than limited supply and huge demand, I think it's good that the pricing is coming back under control at long last

[@kevinburke1325]

​@@border304exactly. People just like to complain about everything.

[@XavieRibeiro25]

@@kevinburke1325 its not exactly complaining. Commencal as an example, in 2019 you could get their entry level DH bike for 3500€. Now, their entry level bike is 5700!!! That's nuts. Same parts, just a new version of them. Not all brands did this, but they jacked up the price by a lot. Obviously, if it's the bike you want, get it. But it is a fact that the pricing went through the roof.

[@slick-riq]

I’d need to see bike prices drop by 50% to just back to what I consider a normal non discounted price.

[@YogiTheBearMan]

Rocky Mountain is at 30% off for months so getting better. But I hope they all stay in business

[@jimm244]

I agree! 30% off puts the bikes about where they should be to begin with.

[@rider65]

@@jimm244 no absolutely not. The 50 percent would put bikes back to where they were before the steady ridiculous incline. I'll go back to 2005 when you could buy a decent hardtail and I mean decent as in Judy RockShox fork with bb7 brakes for about 500 bucks now you'll get better brakes on a 500 but the fork is a piece of shit and the wheels will end very easily. Study massive incline before the Scandium was just pure greed mountain bikes we're always more affordable than road bikes and that changed somewhere around 2010

[@joeydirty6112]

A 24 Supercaliber XTR is $9,600! AYFKM? Very expensive, but I’m buying one. 🤙🏻

[@jkk916]

Sadly, "innovations" like disc brakes and multiple wheel sizes complicated logistic chain and manufacturing significantly. We will never return to old times when we had one option: 26 inch MTB wheels/29inch road wheels with QR and rim brakes. And I think it is sad because it worked just fine, at low price level probably even better. Nowadays customer is almost forced to pay premium for the illusion of marginal gains and bad quality. Therefore I believe that the industry consequentially also faces backlash of the disappointed customers. It is not just that the warehouses are full. Problems are deeper.

[@thepassionofthegoose5472]

I have no pity for an industry that considers 7K reasonable for a mid MTB. Same greed and stupidity that has caused a significant devaluation in the automotive industry is now coming for the cycling industry. Ironically the motorcycle industry, where most cycling R&D comes from, is thriving since they didn't drive their prices up significantly to match demand and interest.

[@matthewl419]

Where the motorcycle industry got hit was the used market. Production of new bikes didn't increase, but demand did. As a result, people bought used stuff instead of waiting months for new. A "beater" starter bike used to be 1.2k max on marketplace based on all the advice of old-timers, now it's 2.5-3k if you're lucky. Ninja 250s with 30k miles are selling near me for 3.5k

[@KapitanPisoar1]

Well a lot of people are finding out that instead of buying $8000 mountain bike, you can buy $8000 motorcycle…

[@ericsn6158]

@@KapitanPisoar1 Exactly!!! A brand new Triumph Trident 660 at $8595 now definitely looks a much better proposition.

[@johncoons1666]

Yeah but you can’t ride the whole enchilada trail on a triumph trident 160. Im buying epic riding experiences, in some of the most beautiful outdoor remote places in the world.

[@KapitanPisoar1]

@@johncoons1666 Well there are also dirt bikes…

[@emilswanson-g5i]

Still too expensive even at sale prices. I don’t feel sorry for them.

[@justgarethsphone9663]

Saw it first hand the other day, had to go to 99 bikes to grab some headset bearings. They were as cheap as they should be ($24) sure, but the guy in front of me in the queue shelled out $340 to replace the entry level shimano cranks ($70 on ebay) on his commuter… poor guy got fleeced

[@Spuzzmacher]

Luckily there are a couple-few decades of really, & in some cases REALLY nicely made bikes to choose from, that makes buying anything new & retail look like a terrible idea.

[@DreDaGodSon]

@@justgarethsphone9663 Disgusting. I know they need to make a profit but not like that. It does you justice to do your own research on the bike you have.

[@majesticf0x130]

they are still cutting prices even 5 months later

[@TheRimBrakeGuy]

But why, 10k bikes are a steal!!!

[@brianyates1493]

They need to get a serious reality check. I can literally by a brand new dirtbike for the same price as a nice mountain bike. So ridiculous

[@mtlaprade]

As a 20+ year industry vet - in the first 2 minuets you nailed it. Bike industry treated the boom like a bonus when it was payday advance and bills are now due with more interest and no more loans.....

[@corail53]

Every industry did that. Metric tons of layoffs across the board due to over hiring in 2021. Rates got high - lending got expensive. Shows how bad these companies play the leverage.

[@djcjr1x1]

Another 20+ year vet here & I agree, glad I got out of the industry & they are getting what they deserve.😤

[@othgmark1]

Specialized has been among the most abusive to the dealers they have. Forcing them to take on so many mediocre Specialized parts and accessories.

[@jackolson8775]

...funny, Harley Davidson did the same thing. Although, history shows interest in bicycles is cyclical, Id expect things to come back again. EBikes certainly will gain more momentum as the price comes down, which it should. Plus, I think the EBike has not found its best "form" yet. Doing 30-40mph on what is basically a heavy duty traditional pedal bike, will soon enough evolve , for sure. How? IDK.

[@TheRedStateBlue]

and also the reason why i keep my good ideas to myself... i had an idea at my last job that would have boosted revenue. i asked my boss if i told him my idea and he liked it and implemented it, would i get a cut of those additional profits. he said no, i kept my idea to myself, he fired me for it... "not being a team player..."

[@drmoynihan]

Thank you for presenting a clear view of how short term greed destroys long term investment and returns. The bike industry messed with it's customers and now comes the natural payback. It is an prevasive attitude reflected throughout society.

[@delnayelan]

Short term greed destorys long term need!

[@Mike-de7wv]

It's a perfect storm for the big, multi-national / investment-vulture / corporate-owned companies as they're most likely balls-deep in debt too; which has gotten a lot more expensive to service in the past 18 months on top of all the issues that are specific to the cycle industry. My tastes are a bit niche (only do steel) and it's interesting / heartening to see that the smaller, more-likely-independent boutique brands seem to be weathering the storm better - perhaps because they had more skin in the game and were less driven by profit and short-termism. A good time to be in the market for a new bike, and tbh I have limited sympathy for many of the companies caught up on this since they're certainly not blameless for the situation they find themselves in. For too long the industry has been dominated by un-necessary marketing-driven demand-creation and rocketing prices; seems like a breath of fresh air for the rampant consumption to abate. Let's not forget it's all about the ride, not the gear.

[@paulandrews7573]

I can't believe I made the same mistake 20 years later and have another frame from a company thats gone out of business (Geurrilla Gravity & Outland). They both had such cool tech I couldn't resist. The GG was the first new bike since I got out of the industry years ago. Don't ride too hard anymore so hopefully it will last a long time, But I don't know what frame I would get to replace it. Small brands (< 5 employees) can weather the storm better, but don't often last long term, burnout or personal issues. Can't think how many small companies from the '80's & 90's have closed. I still have two real Bontagers and got to have dinner with him shortly after the Trek buyout. He said he got a steady paycheck, health insurance and a minivan for his wife out of the deal. And he's in the MTB Hall of Fame He told me running a medium sized company is really hard profitably. Even the larger companies are in trouble now...

[@JohnBreezy22]

100% In agreement with you

[@garrettgibson8835]

Kinda like Keynesian economics pretty much

[@johngorman7729]

Helping them is funny, honestly i’ve never been given a break or discount at any bike store and when things were good for the bike stores the customer service went down all over the place because they knew they didn’t need you and now they want our support again 😂

[@fotorama2013]

So true.

[@rjbennett3418]

Unfortunately true.

[@johncole3010]

Bike shop owner treated me like a rock star fan; now I’m no longer feeling it

[@TenFalconsMusic]

F 'em... My local bike shop did the same to their customers back when business was booming. Their "If you think it's overpriced, don't buy it" smugness was abhorrent. I'm now returning the favour by finding the lowest online price and having them price match it. They have no choice at this point and now they leave their lip prints on my bottom every time I'm there.

[@Technotranceism]

There's only so many people with huge disposable incomes, so now budget tight people cannot afford them. This effects any market.

[@philiparonson8315]

I’ve always loved the old ‘I warned you that this bad event would happen’ and the resulting ‘you’re fired because you didn’t communicate it well enough’.

[@MrEcted]

I think there are a few angles to this situation. Yes, there was the gouging, which pissed off consumers, but also many people I know who were buying new bikes all the time have settled with what they already have and aren't in the market anymore. I think a lot of it is just because of the state of the world. People feel kinda worn out, tired, not as enthusiastic to spend lots of money on things like bikes. Many of us are now just trying to get by, it's getting kinda rough out here.

[@peglor]

It's also because bikes are reliable enough to last pretty well if they're minded, combined with nothing that's worth upgrading to coming onto the market in heading for 20 years. For anyone who's been biking longer than that, most of the 'innovation' has not made biking better, only made it more expensive and usually more maintenance intensive. The most obvious example for me were the literal fit and forget open bath Marzocchi coil/air assist forks from 20+ years ago compared with every modern fork. Once manufacturers realised they could claim weight savings by butting a ml or two of oil into the legs instead of nearly filling them, while also making a fortune in replacement seals or whole forks when they fail because there was never enough oil to deal with the contamination that's inherent in off road use, they basically ruined MTBing as a cheap sport. More depressingly, Marzocchi was killed off by the same shitweasel greed when they outsourced manufacturing from Italy to Asia. In what came as a surprise to no one, their quality tanked and suddenly their forks were even less trustworty than their rivals, so people stopped buying them, they went bankrupt and Fox bought the name.

[@MrEcted]

@@peglor Very true!

[@Rambleon444]

There is also, like in my case. With government-induced inflation across the board. I have no money to spare.

[@gabeah]

No pity for the bike shops that were milking ever last dollar and ripping off loyal customers at the peak. I bought a Pivot from Salt Cycles in Utah in 22, horrible experience, and they acted like they were doing me a favor when I was spending 10k on bike.

[@Oregonian86]

THE PRICES are out of control. +$5grand for a decent bike that is going to get thrown around and parts WILL break then cost more to replace is crazy. you have to be rich or single with no family to invest in the sport. What should be anybody accessible sport just isn't. Shame on the bike companies

[@MikeDandurand]

The fact that you can buy a dirtbike for less than some new mountain bikes speaks a lot....Also, times are tough it's hard to ball out on a new bike in today's world...

[@truespace1]

After two failed deliveries from online retailers and a wrong bike sent out. I went to my LBS, for a different brand. My LBS sold me last year’s model as this years, claiming it was at a discount! Yet other shops were discounting this years at a lot lower price, found that out later. (I used to trust them!) I brought it because the specs are the same, only the colour is different and I like last year’s colour plus I didn’t want the hassle of more failed deliveries, even if it was cheaper elsewhere. Add in at least they did most of the set up, so one less thing to do. But, I will never use them again for anything now. Everyone in the industry needs to stop talking the customer for granted. Stop lying to the customer. The Internet will find you out eventually.

[@laszlozoltan5021]

my spidey senses say canyonaro..... heard that one before

[@greggorysmith3063]

Unfortunately customers are only seen as cash cows to these brands. I left Trek because goals and profit were more important than fixing a safe quality bike. I would get "talked to" for not offering grips, pedals, or bottle cage on early 2000s cruiser that would be rotted out. When my focus was getting the customer on something they will enjoy and hopefully not store it under the deck for another 10 Years.

[@laszlozoltan5021]

@@greggorysmith3063 oh yeah, I recall long time ago the look when I told them I didnt want that kick stand. Sorry, I lost trust in my LBS and learned to trust myself...made some mistakes along the way but always gained something better. Cheers

[@greggorysmith3063]

@laszlozoltan5021 Yeah, it's crazy. There is soo much information customers should get when getting a bike. The average person just getting into cycling doesn't know how much stem, bars, or seat can help change that "medium " frame( fitting a hieght range )to actually fit them better for longer comfortable rides. And not really needing a whole "professional fitting" (which a professional fit will make it better) but who needs a 100-300 professional fitting for an entry-level bike. But big brands just want the cage, bottle, and water bottle sales to make "add on" margins better. And if you as a customer don't get those the employee just stops the progression of helpful information because they don't see the customer helping their numbers to look good for a $0.05 raise in 2 years ha I'm probably labeled as a "sour mechanic bashing shops/brands" but bikes are all I've known in my life and I want everyone to have that same experience and not feel like cash cows. -cheers back and hope you're enjoying your rides!

[@joshuabird8362]

@@greggorysmith3063 Trek support is terrible. Overpriced for the name and then they leave you with your broken product.

[@skartimus]

Your skit at the start is actually bang on. Work in that role in the gaming pc space and it was exactly like that lol. Now everyone is like why are sales down? Wtf? I am left wondering how some people have so much money to invest but couldn't see that one coming.

[@Prisonmike89]

Who'd of thunk a $10k mountain bike isn't at the top of everyones "need it" list.

[@timndel]

That opening sequence is so spot on, it's ridiculous! I haven't purchased a new bike since 2000, because my bike is still going strong since it was built to last, and the cost of new bikes is astronomical. By the time prices come down, I'll be too old to even ride anymore.

[@laszlozoltan5021]

yeah; I reckon I just bought my last frame (a rim brake Trek) this past summer...it'll probably outlive me, but dems da brakes, as they say

[@MacThreinfhir]

Same here. I bought a new LeMond Zurich in 2001. Never thought I’d still have it but at these prices, I’ll keep riding it. Plus, I love it. Great bike.

[@escgoogle3865]

I might buy another new locally welded travel and gravel bike before i die. Any other style, nope.

[@TheJhtlag]

@@MacThreinfhir Ha! I have a couple LeMonds, work just fine, great bikes.

[@michaelhaney3388]

Same here 1993 Original Merlin road, rides great after all these years and just as light as carbon.

[@bliptripmusic]

It's funny how everyone other than the suits figured out what was going to happen. It's been dubbed 'the bullwhip effect' by economists and most businesses are run by idiots so it's not just the bike industry going through this. Let's hope some of these overpaid tools get fired.

[@hughjanus7354]

"Let's hope some of these overpaid tools get fired." If anything, history tells us that they'll get bonuses and will double down after reset.

[@jeremyporterfield1611]

“Most businesses are run by idiots…” - do you know many folks running businesses? Legit just trying to understand where that statement is based, because the only way I see that being true is in the sense that humans are idiots. To actual run a business, you’ve either really impressed some smart people (venture capital or incumbent leadership) or you’ve started your own small business, which doesn’t require a genius but definitely requires a non-idiot

[@BodyDestruction]

@@jeremyporterfield1611probably idiots in the sense of MBA’s: they can maximize quarterly profits really well, and that will impress some VC (which very often sucks at due diligence - just look at all the funded and failed tech or EV companies), but they can’t build and run a company over the long term (>5years). Their customers aren’t the people buying the products, it’s the people funding the business, and that eventually always leads to enshittification of products and loss of customers. So yes, idiots in the eyes of most employees and customers. I’ve been there, explained my CEO what problem would arise, got laughed at and then later fired because it turned out I was right, which her ego couldn’t handle.

[@jeremyporterfield1611]

@@BodyDestruction I get this. Definitely on VC front, they are typically based on slugging average for the fund, not individual investments, though it appears that space is changing right now. Totally agree though that common culture amongst company leadership these days is to remain in a role for 18ish months, make a big change/splash to short term production, then move on and up with the positive momentum seen within that organization before the long term impacts hit that unit, then when they do hit, make sure you’ve moved on enough to distance yourself. No real mechanism in the free market preventing this other than company culture/hiring practices in my experience.

[@virginiascurti5036]

Poillitcaly correct, woke virtue signaling idiots.

[@josevarela4928]

It's crazy how they were "robbing" us. No, it's because of the pandemic, the prices went up and we have to sell our bikes for 20% to 40% more than before. They were greedy and now they have to deal with it. I fell sorry for workers that might lose their job though!

[@allenjay896]

Regardless of that bikes shouldnt priced above 6000 and above. And they shouldnt just release new versions per model every damned year. Not everyone is willing to pay for a new car every year.

[@pl4free]

@@allenjay896 you don't need to buy a new bike every year. My TT is 11 years old, my RB is 8 years old. Still ride like a dream and are great.

[@hallstewart]

That’s markets for you. It costs to ramp up production to meet increase demand so there is a tendency to overproduce. Predicting sales trends accurately is a black art! You cannot complain bikes are too expensive when the market accepted the prices. Moreover the higher margin paid for new jobs, sponsorships and R&D into better products: e-bikes, 4 pot brakes, e shifting, wake up this is how business works

[@JasondenHollander-qj5hp]

Your forehead out wrinkles chandler bing

[@josevarela4928]

@@hallstewart Yeah right, that's why you see prices in 2023 bikes going down up to 30%. They had insane profits and as always they find an excuse to increase prices and their margins. I can complain as I am not buying ovepriced bikes. 😂

[@robplazzman6049]

When an MTB costs more than an off-road motorcycle, something has gone wrong !

[@JerryDurante]

I can only speak for myself. I will not under any circumstances pay motorcycle prices for a bike. Years ago I used to ride bikes year round for transportation. Then I got into riding motorcycles. I recently went to a bike shop to see what is available with the serious intent on buying one. Bicycle manufactures can go to hell with their prices.

[@MattPula]

other industries I follow (guitars/music instruments as a primary example) are having similar issues right now. They saw a huge boom during the pandemic from people trying new things to keep themselves entertained/busy - then dropped off hard in the last year or two because a lot of these people didn't stick with the hobby long-term. Then for anyone who IS sticking with the hobby, they aren't keen on buying new/more stuff because of general inflation and COL reducing the amount of disposable income they might have available.

[@beerenmusli8220]

AND because things like bikes and instruments, many hobby pieces in fact, can be used with TONS of fun for years to come, with only maintainance costs like new tires, suspension service, new strings, new music sheets and similar. You do not need a new bike EVERY year to pursue the bike hobby. Not even every second year.

[@MattPula]

@@beerenmusli8220 yeah dude 1000%

[@JacesOwnWorld]

When the government hands a family of 3, over $6k, immediately, right into their checking account, multiple times over, then yep, people are gonna buy shit. This was the “grand plan” by our ever so smart government, to get the economy boosting again, all signed in petition by the majority, the Democratic Party. Now look where it got us. Lazy people and very high inflation across the board. Remember to vote correctly this coming election. 👍

[@yota8325]

​@@beerenmusli8220definitely don't need a new bike every year. My s works is 10 years old now and it's still a blast to ride. Just been basic maintenance

[@geetee4037]

It's reset time. We don't need new tech every other week like aero gravel bikes or internally routed MTBs, etc. We need quality bikes that are affordable and can be fixed with ease.

[@SibrenFetter]

Another big reason is the idea that a new bike has to come out every year. The market of consumers who actually have the kind of income to buy a new bike every year is tiny (plus it really does mot make sense from an environmental point of view). That combined with bikes being of amazing quality, lasting many years, and no really meaningful innovations for most riders made for a completely oversaturated market.

[@DjDoggDad]

Its why i appreciate the companies that make a model that runs for years and only change the year color not design.

[@christophepaquot3562]

Ibis' bike prices went down too. Idk about trying to help them out tho. When demand was high they were more than happy to rip us off...

[@christophepaquot3562]

@@mattcardarelli Agreed. And even now if we try helping them out, they'll still try to squeeze as much dough out of us as they can.

[@Happy_Biker]

One lbs near me had a top end S-Works Epic listed at $12,000 for the longest time. Very pretty bike. It's probably sold by now, but was discounted to $7,000 last time I noticed.

[@BodyDestruction]

Jeez, that’s a bigger discount than I’ve ever spent on a car 😂

[@drewkochanek9322]

I have a 12000 trek rail 9.9 xtr that we’re selling for 7k right now it’s silly we paid 9k for it

[@danielkeene3852]

I saw this coming when I started to see a lot of brand new mountain bikes on the trails the first spring and summer of coof. People went out and bought bikes to have something to do, found out that it's actually a lot of work and it hurts when you fall, put the bike in the garage and forgot about it. Now with inflation out of control people are going back into their garage to pull those bikes out to cash out, but they haven't checked the new bike market so they still think that the bike is worth what they bought it for. The prices being asked for by secondhand sellers is delusional. Lucky for me I have a pretty solid gig and will be looking to take a nice lightly used bike off of someone's hands this spring.

[@hahamasala]

You nailed it! And a lot of these used bike sellers don't show them model year. It's so annoying. You can't do that with cars.

[@Frorideism]

Another "fun fact" about this whole thing, all our bikes resale value just plummeted like my wife's tits, no way anyone will be buying a used bike unless it's super cheap, since you will be able to get brand new ones for like half price lol.

[@emyshini]

In my town, people just buy used bikes for $20-40. Most just use walmart bikes. I've seen very few people who ride anything expensive. I think part of it has to do with how fast those bikes will get stolen since even bottom-of-the-barrel bike theft is a problem here. Location matters greatly for what kind of bike you can safely buy and use. I would imagine there's a significant number of people that would love to buy these more expensive bikes and have the budget for it, but they just can't due to the local crackheads.

[@BIGEUSMC]

Although prices may go down for some time but as the amount of companies goes down competition also goes down which is not good for consumers. I hate to see any of these companies prematurely make bad decisions that effect employees as well as customers

[@janeblogs324]

The number of

[@TheWebstaff]

Yeah but the market is flooded with "pandemic bikes" so that won't be a problem for a few years.

[@MRSOMEBODYRC]

Quedtion: how often do you people replace your overly expensive bikes? Why do you have the need to replace your bikes? Is it broken? I have had my giant talon 2 since it came out. I don't need another bike, I don't need to replace it. This goes with everything, cars, cellphones, computers, TVs, etc. If it ain't broke, I don't need to replace it. I am not funding the economy in this stupid way. If I have it and there is nothing wrong with it, I will never replace it.

[@mechart87]

Even as a certified bike mechanic with extensive eBike and electronics experience, I had my hours cut till I left the industry. Wish I felt worse about it, but you can’t feel bad for these companies. As you said, we all saw it coming and they did it to themselves. As had most consumer goods makers

[@bicyclelife7088]

This is one of the few honest bike industry videos. Most stores and bike industry channels are fluffing everything and saying nothing is wrong, or acknowledge why we are in this situation.

[@thim8009]

With inflation, it's hard to afford a bike even if it is on sale.

[@Graphiclee63]

What you failed to realize is that bikes are way, way, way, way, way overpriced. Telling us about a bike that is normally $7,000 is now selling for $6,000 means NOTHING. The real problem is bicycle companies think they can sell a bicycle at a price equal to or more than what a good motorcycle cost. It's outrageous.

[@ianmacdonald487]

Are any of you looking at what a tiny percentage of the population rides bicycles? More people need to ride bicycles. New bicyclists need to be able to by decent bikes at reasonable prices. Who really needs bikes that cost thousands of dollars? I own a fleet of bikes, all kinds. Now, at 65, most of my riding is on cruisers with coaster brakes. Most people don't even know how to use gears properly, and would be better off with one-speed bikes with low gearing. I put 36 to 40-tooth chainwheels on my bikes, and average 14-15 mph. The bicycle industry has been looking to make maximum profit from a minimum market for decades. That's one thing that has to change ; but people also need to stop being too pussified to ride bikes.

[@ferrisbueller1347]

yes well said, also there are many cyclists out there buying used stuff that want to avoid all the electronic stuff, stick with 11 speed, dont want disc brakes on their road bike, dont want all that proprietary stuff, and just want that simple easy to work on bike like they used to make prior to 2018. bikes were awesome then and still are....

[@mattcardarelli]

You know me so well. The industry can have themselves at this point

[@koreydeese6899]

I agree on the propriety part. I like disc brakes fine - but rims brakes are just fine too, I have both. I kind of want a Rivendell 😂. I have AXS on one bike due to what was available at the time, but I actually prefer cables.

[@Brockthedog315]

This is exactly right. I keep shopping for bikes only to remember why I quit shopping previously.

[@bs8716]

Dude, agree. Building a new bike and after searching for weeks I gave up… I don’t want or need hydraulics or electronics, disc brakes, or even suspension. I’m not going to pay $600 for a rigid frame. I bought a Trek 720 from the 90’s. Got what are likely to be two of the last sets of shimano deore v-brakes off ebay.

[@Nick_CF]

The best mix is 10 speed with disc brakes...seriously a bomb proof setup

[@daverupes7022]

It's the ridiculous costs they sell them for. Can anyone explain how a motorcycle with a motor, far superior suspension , brakes and frames cost about the same as a " good mountain bike"😮 2:58

[@TurnerReuter]

I see this day to day in my life. I’m a mechanic at my lbs and our sales until the past week ish have been very slow. We have people come in to buy a bike, look at the price and leave. And not just new bikes but repairs are very low. It was bound to happen, every year it gets slow around this time, just now it’s gotten so big that big companies are feeling it too.

[@HawksDiesel]

Who could've saw it coming though?!

[@Nick_CF]

The problem I have with all my local shops is for guys like me that do all the maintenance on my bike myself they are becoming absolutely useless. The shops never have parts I need when I need them...ever. The shop mechanics think they know all there is to know about bikes but half the time I have to correct them on simple things. All at a price that is beyond ridiculous...I've about given up on the industry as a whole and just stick to private sales and hookups. Its sad but it is as they say "just business"

[@CEMonkey]

Similar thing happened in a lot of industries at the time, and it all played off each-other. Huge demand caused manufacturers to pay premiums to grab their capacity to meet as much demand as possible. Freight costs shot up sky-high as well. A big mistake was the industry not admitting it was a once in an era spike, and thinking everyone alive would by $8k bikes every 6 months forever.

[@freebird1ification]

dont know who got the big freight money but the truck drivers sure didnt get any of it

[@SubversionGarage]

Hilarious! Your opening is unfortunately spot on with most corporate thinking.

[@michaelcline7458]

It's hard to find any sympathy for these companies given the exorbitant prices they have expected consumers to accept. There is just no way an off the shelf bike needs to cost more than a decent car or a brand new motorcycle. Very few riders that aren't pro can even ride an $$8000 bike to its limits.

[@LukasDePraga]

You are talking new bike for $8.000 costs more than decent car? Which car that sells new for 8k can be described as decent?😃

[@michaelcline7458]

@@LukasDePraga you can get a decent used car or a new motorbike for $8000. Absolutely. Either way, an off the shelf bike with off the shelf components made by a volume manufacturer should not cost what it does these days.

[@InActionPrductions]

Maybe if the price of a new mtb wasnt more then the price of a brand new 450 dirt bike Lol. Or like the dmr defy stem was $80...went out of stock and when they had stock again my local bike shop was asking $130! Thats gouging clearly. The bikes/parts arent worth anywhere near what they are asking for.

[@deanrickvalsky7586]

The consumers have to take a large part of the accountability as well. You can’t just point the finger at bad manufacturers. The consumer is the one who over paid, accepted the inflated prices, and said thank you sure may I have another and didn’t it again and again. A little self control by consumers would have helped big time.

[@jojotherider1977]

I just wanted to share my anecdotal note of how this affected the used market. I was ready to move on from my 2018 Capra 29 base that I got brand new for $2600 shipped. I sold it last year for $2000 and it only took a week. Earlier this year I saw the same buyer selling it for $1500 and I saw a different person list theirs for $1200. Today I saw the comp model from that year listed for $1500. I'm glad that I was able to sell my bike last year. Seems I read the market correctly for once. Of course, I also bought a bike from the used market last year, but we're not talking about that. :P

[@imarquezc]

Honestly I don’t feel sorry for retailers. They were charging $100 for a freaking biker short. They deserve it. Same goes for frames, brakes, etc…

[@lugnut705]

Isn't the retailers fault. They get the cost from the brands then mark it up to msrp so they can make a profit and stay in business.

[@millerbiz]

I love bikes but the pricing makes no sense.

[@davidpalk5010]

Time to go back to simple bikes. Steel frames, fixies, singlespeeds, 3 x 8 maybe... That stuff can be super-fun so long as you're not actually competing. Most riders don't compete. Simple bikes provide an envelope and therefore additional riding challenges which can enrich the experience. It's time to sidestep the marketing and go back to basics.

[@guillaumeb6698]

I'm thinking innovation may already have been slowing down as it feels like we had more "electronic stuff" than real innovation those last years, which may be another "invisible" blow to the bike industry : From 2013 to about 2020 changing your bike about every two years would get you a massively different bike (geo change, dropper, wheel size 26>27.5, 1x transmission, wheel size 27.5>29, longer dropper, 12s transmission), but a bike from 2023 isn't much different from 2020. My Honzo ESD from 2020 is as up to date as any new bike. The whole progressive geo is now the norm so it's not progressing anymore.

[@petedog9581]

My alloy 2013 Stumpjumper Elite 29er has new parts parts on it and weighs 30 lbs., and is plenty capable. It has a 67.5 HTA and 74.5 STA, not far off from XC new bikes. The only difference is the TT lengths and wheelbase length by 20-25 mm for a medium frame. I also have a 150 Pike (F) and 130 Deluxe Ultimate (R) which is not XC travel, but at XC weight. I ride in hilly terrain, and the industry has been pushing mountain pro LLS geos on Avg Joes for too long. I have demoed new bike and they just don't seem worth the cash.... until now! The R&D costs got too high for the companies and consumers. The bike is only a tool for the job. The rider is the solution, and bikes have ben great for years. FOMO is the industry driver and it is waning. Your local bike shop needs your business w service, not selling new bikes. They make nothing on bike sales.

[@JohnSmith-nw3zg]

Let's see - Innovation. They still have chains, pedals, handlebars, etc. My old steel bike does the same job as the shiny new carbon bike. The new bike may be aero, but I'm not. The new bike may be 5 lbs lighter and maybe riding the steel bike will make me 5 lbs lighter. Old bikes can be fixed. Parts are non proprietary. The old tools fit. I guess I'm saying you are right.

[@TivonSanders]

​@@JohnSmith-nw3zgInnovation doesn't necessarily lie in changin the bike as we know it, it has always been about making you, the rider, faster through a lighter and more capable machine.

[@garyking508]

As a selfish consumer, that's a good thing. My 5 yearold (bought 2nd hand) bike is still "modern". Way I look at it: at least the geo is good, no need to change.

[@petedog9581]

@@TivonSanders That means carbon frames with the size of modern mtbs, and that means $. Alloy f/s trail bikes now weigh 35 lbs w a GX group set of components.

[@Stickleback]

Lets face it, bike prices over the last 15 years + have been extortionate, expensive crap that crumble and break easily, about time sales sloped.

[@Name-vu1kn]

Bikes also became insanely expensive because the industry decided that it was going to make solutions for problems that consumers didn’t have. Exotic alloys and electronic shifting sounds great until you realize it doesn’t make you ride faster, it made your wallet lighter though.

[@paceline]

Amen!

[@raziqafg]

I loved mountsin biking. But after getting into the sport very quickly found out how expensive bikes were. I could literally go and buy a motor cycle for the price of a mountain bike. Didnot make amy sense to me.

[@rilijn]

As someone who, apparently, has an affinity towards expensive hobbies - cycling and photography - there was a time when these were considered expensive but “reasonable”. Lately, both of these industries seemed to have adopted a pricing philosophy that simply pushes people away. You can either buy entry level crap or dentist-level. And both industries are struggling. It’ll be interesting to see where things go from here. I DO wish I’d had the foresight to sell my old bikes when the market was screaming hot. Then I could get these new, updated bikes at a huge discount. Oh well

[@rhidiandavies1991]

I am literally part of the reason for this. During covid I couldn't sur, so decided to try out mtb. Bought the entry level commencal hard tail for £1000 GBP because i literally couldn't afford anytbing else, then spent a another £400 or so on mods like a dropper seat post etc. I enjoyed it but it never really scratched that same itch that surfing does for me, so in 2022 i sold the bike with all the mods and some bike tools for £1000 because having thousands of pounds worth of bike just sitting in the garage seemed crazy to me. It was an expensive experiment but i had some fun times on the bike so don't regret it. I sincerely apologise for my role in creating an insane bubble that has made so many people's chosen hobby prohibitively expensive. I can only hope that now us new people are selling up we flood the market and the greedier bike companys get what's coming to them, while you hardcore people can get some bargains.

[@B1KER]

Missed ya! Glad to see you still have your camera. 🙌

[@DailyMTBRider]

Miss you too buddy! Sometimes I just can't help but commentate on the chaos!

[@chrispewkreme]

I’ll chime in: EVERY motorcycle I own, has been cheaper than the mountain bikes I have looked at. That’s fuckin ridiculous. My YZ250 will last decades. It’s ridiculously fast. It’s suspension is some of the best in the game. You want me to pay the same money for something I have to pedal? The pricing always kept me away.

[@rollwithmemtb]

I'm seeing similar prices to what I paid 4 years ago. Good time to buy if you're in the market for a new bike 👍

[@paulandrews7573]

But do you want a bike from a company that might go out of business... I'll give somebody a great deal on a lightly used Geurreilla Gravity 😢

[@rollwithmemtb]

@@paulandrews7573 it would be bad if you had a warranty issue on a defunct brand for sure.

[@JohnBreezy22]

@@paulandrews7573Just don’t break it. I’ve never b by broken a bike. Keep riding your GG. It’s a great bike.

[@TsunamiKitten]

Great points. I think it can be argued that the industry got a bit ridiculous there for a bit. Thanks for posting.

[@TheAngryHusky]

It’s not just the bike industry. That said the sales just go to show how ridiculous their markups are. They mark up the frames, then they buy all of the components in bulk at huge discounts but list them on builds at full retail. Another markup. Bikes are/were being sold that are double what they should cost. Now you see the correction. It sucks for them, but good for anyone wanting bikes or parts anytime soon.

[@MarvinWestmaas]

On one hand you're 100% correct, on the other hand 'good for anyone wanting bikes or parts anytime soon' only lasts a limited time. Eventually stock will match with demand again, prices will go up and then we'll have a lacking manufacturing capacity since they been selling old stock from their warehouses and the production personnel has all been sent home. Hence, end result is even higher prices due to availability not matching steady demand. Not to mention that actual technological evolution will be put on a slow cook... like something as internal gearbox transmissions.

[@JohnBreezy22]

@@MarvinWestmaasIt absolutely lasts for a limited time. It’s an ebb and flow. It’s rapidly turning into a consumer market. It’s about time. Consumers ultimately have control.

[@dylan-5287]

Good until the bike you just bought no longer has support because the brand closed down. Going to be rough times ahead.

[@scruf153]

the bicycle industry needs to embrace and promote bicycle commuting more than racing if they want to sell bikes transportation is where the money is at

[@pootjube]

Unfortunately most industries have the same issues. The world shut down, more or less, for two years, governments kept consumer confidence up artificially by printing as much money as possible. Then came the biggest inflation in modern history and high interest rates as a direct result of the actions of 2020 and 2021. People are now losing their jobs, mental health is on an unprecedented low and there is no end in sight. It doesn't matter how much bikes are discounted, most people simply don't have any money spare to spend.

[@mattcardarelli]

Straight facts homie. Discount it by 75% I could care less. I have to buy groceries, not electronic drive trains

[@msoldate]

I bought my specialized Stumjumper Evo for 2.4K in 2014. Seeing bikes going for 7k is purely ridiculous and I ride all the time. Going to continue riding my old evo and let others go in debt

[@cedricbethea358]

I bought a basic Trek Marlin 6 for $600 in 2017 and after a few low priced upgrades, its still going strong after 50,000 plus miles. In other words most bikes are way overpriced anyway.

[@visualpun650]

I work for a small distributor that Carrie’s components and frames. No bikes. No huge brands. We did end up ordering more than we needed, but not out of greed, but because the factories were upping MOQ’s and if we did not agree to those MOQ’s, we wouldn’t get products made. They were also charging a premium for the goods and turnaround time could be 2x as long. So we ended up getting these big orders AFTER the boom was over and needing to jack the price to make up for the higher costs paid on product and shipping. So now we are way overstocked on some items and been discounting all summer long. We plan to price some of our newest frames at 40% off this month. So while last year everything had inflated pricing, if you can get something on sale now it is probably cheaper than 2019 prices. It is like Black Friday all Fall and Winter long. This will not last though. I am thinking the discounts will level off by spring as inventory reaches a comfortable level. So if you have bike money now, good for you.

[@CEMonkey]

This is accurate. I work in another industry that had the exact same thing happen during COVID. Finite capacity at the suppliers and skyrocketing demand, so suppliers charged premiums and high MOQ’s with no cancellation policy. Lead times went out a year plus, freight was more expensive and tied-up by all industries, as well as taking up to 15 weeks to get across the ocean. Then demand disappeared.

[@ashjwhelan]

Be nice to your LBS - buy tires, grips and other parts they probably don’t do mad deals on from them. Get tricky stuff booked into their mechanics (mechanics in my lbs love and hate me - if I wheel a bike in either it’s time consuming and I just haven’t got the time or it’s a real challenge!). Don’t push for deals and they’ll value you. Then when it a stretch for you they may offer you something. Buy from smaller manufacturers if you like their stuff and they’ll stay alive longer. Spread the love around at it will get spread back.

[@robertturner1308]

Crazy prices. Not getting back into MTBing. Trail running or hiking is all I can afford. Prices gotta come way down for me to ride again.

[@cecilecorpuz5735]

Let it burn, the market is in due for major price adjustments straight across the board. I don't ride a mountain bike, I'm sort of a roadie guy riding all Vintage steel and I can keep up with the high end carbon dudes, the great thing about my bikes they are 100% serviceable, when the carbon bikes are starting to wear out my steel rigs will still be gobbling up the pavement.

[@mattcardarelli]

My 1990 Wicked Fat Chance agrees with this statement.

[@WillPower46]

The first two minutes of this video 100% reflects my Cardano block chain investment (?) over the same period.

[@CaliradoKid]

Any day Josh uploads a new video is going to be a good day!

[@DailyMTBRider]

You sweetheart heart you 😍👨🏻‍🦰

[@mosquitofleetfishing6599]

Everything is still overpriced. 10 years ago, people were buying performance dirt bikes with top end parts kits for what we pay for a mountain bike.

[@PeterCPRail8748]

Good, the industry has gotten out of touch with the average rider. Selling them a vision of MTB that most of us won't ever attain or experience just to justify lunacy pricing. The smart companies will go back to the majority of there line up being under 5 grand. The rest can fold for all I care. THEY MADE THERE BEDS NOW THEY CAN SLEEP IN THEM. What these companies need to do is go back to building an entry-mid to mid trim bike for 2500 to 3500 dollars. Not 5000 grand plus.

[@MarvinWestmaas]

Yup. I have no issues with companies having top of the line products... but it becomes an issue when their 'starting model' is priced towards making mtb'ing an elitist sport again. On the other hand, I love riding the local trails on my two decade old hardtail having just as much if not more fun then someone who needs to baby their brand new 8k full sus monster ( they barely use to half what it actually can handle ). I even enjoy getting those sideways looks from those snobs, and I love ripping past them on my old clunker ( ... not in the best condition sadly atm.. that's why I cheat with a tsdz2b 😂😂😂😂 ). You know what they say, ride what you have! And enjoy not having to baby your 8k bike 🤘🤘 Since I like wrenching a bit I wouldn't even buy such a bike if I could, I enjoy buying low end bikes and slowly building them up to be capable little machines. Decent hardtail frames are cheap enough, component prices have dropped since the crisis ended ( I can even get mt200's for a normal price again instead of Zoom's ). Not that familiar with full sus, since where I live it just doesn't make much sense ( pancake country, most riding is pretty flat ). I think I could build a very capable bike for 2.5k heck probably even half of that. And if you didn't know, if I placed it in the showroom of a lbs, you might think it comes straight from some factory you never heard of. Mtb's sadly isn't priced to capability but to marketing/branding. You pay 'Specialized' taxes. Even Walmart now has 'decent' entry level mountainbikes... not BSO's but actual bikes.

[@kidneystone1345]

the thing about bicycles is that, the moment i bought my first motorcycle, i lost all interest to invest a single penny on a bicycle

[@shadowofthestarsdespair]

cus bikes cost more then a motorcycle for no reason sure 5k maybe for the top of the line race bike but 5k for just a trail bike bro come on thats wack

[@blarpieman]

Mountain bikes far exceeding the price of a fuel injected dirt bike is mental. Also selling direct to customers is another scam I cannot stand that destroys the bike shops. The optical industry has been doing that last few years it’s a disaster.

[@obiseankenobi2056]

the shop i worked at was insanely busy during the whole boom just like everyone was - but the owner refused to stock up on anything while everyone else around us was going nuts setting up estores and hanging colnagos from the rafters - it made no sense to me at the time - and now I see how wise he was because he's just sailing along same as before after making a little extra during the boom , but didn't trip over his own greedy hands like so many others did.

[@adrian_veidt]

Then pinkbike decide the best course of action is to gatekeep content creators on KZbin. You know, the guys who're one of the reasons why the sport got bigger and known. "If you're not good enough to race, then don't post your content!"

[@kyus1974]

Bike industry needed a reset anyway, they are charging way too much for some of these bikes.

[@paceline]

What you call 'Innovation', I call forced obsolescence. I have a 15 year old Ti Bike that was supposed to be my forever bike but now I'm having to hunt through Ebay for parts. All of this new tech doesn't last as long, isn't as easy to maintain, and they create more problems than they solve. Manufacturers thought they could treat their bikes like iPhones and this is where it led them.

[@intertube1000]

last October Specialized sold base carbon levo for $3500 plus extra free 700wh battery , not announced, but people posting this on FB group. I ended up get one. in my group, about 7 of us bought one.

[@BandanazX]

Premium bike brands have been grossly over priced for a long time. Fat cats at the top, runaway marketing, lavish sponsorships.... I hope they all go out of business. Bespoke built bikes are the only way to go.

[@kentao4]

So the way I see this is that sales are not down, they’re just back to normal. How they treated the pandemic like the new norm is beyond me! Temporary! On top of that, the used market is now also competing!

[@1esk192]

This 100%. It's the same with my company. Bosses got greedy and we pay the price. Thankfully we don't have problems with inventory, so maybe next year will be back to normal

[@kentao4]

@@pebbleinspector down from last year but down from 2019? That spike was an anomaly and not to be forecasted upon.

[@beerenmusli8220]

The stupid thing is, they are even higher than in 2022. But the bosses all got SO greedy that they are in this situation now.

[@MattGates16]

It blows my mind the big companys that saw massive influx of customers during covid, are looking at their sales now and being shocked they are down.

[@Happy_Biker]

Josh, how about you make a video about how this is, or isn't, affecting KZbin mtb "influencers"? I suspect that there's some stress there, too. There's a difference between elective KZbin contributors, and those who are, or who would want to be, making money at it. You might be in a good position to talk about that without pissing anyone off.

[@DailyMTBRider]

Great idea - it'd actually be interesting to talk about a lot of behind the scenes things regarding creator/brand connections

[@DaBinChe]

@@pebbleinspector just checked the Trek website, no sales on any of the EXe

[@JohnBreezy22]

@@DaBinCheI’m noticing many of the mid powered e-bikes are still somewhat high priced. Trek will eventually cave.

[@guitodd]

Boy this video is welcomed after my experience yesterday :) I'm 52 years old and was heavily involved in the bicycle industry in and near Portland, Oregon in the mid 90's to early 2000's. Mainly on the manufacturing and metal finishing side of things. Firt bike I bought new was a specialized StumpJumper in 1987 and later, 2000ish, pre-ordered an FSR full suspension. I have not ridden a bike since 2005. Yesterday, I got a bug to go look at bikes again. I went to a big store in Portland with the intention on seeing what was new... but maybe looking for something used. I had in mind a $600 bike budget because I litterally need to buy everything again, helmet, gloves, etc. I walked into the store and didn't recognize ANYTHING. Finally found a Specialized Rock Hopper... that's familiar so I pulled it down to take a look. THese were a mid-end consumer bike back in the day. Good starting point to look at the componentry... $1100!!! when I flipped the tag over. That was the least expensive bike in the shop. Jeezuz!!... end of that rack was something that looked like a decepticon for $11,000. I felt like an old guy asking were the VCR's are located. They weren't helpful and seemed irritated that I was walking around aimlessly not knowing what I was looking for. I did end up at another shop that was more patient with me and bought me a new Trek Marlin 6 Gen 3. Quite a bit over my budget, but did meet my needs and I felt like the shop cared about me being happy after the first experience. I was genuinly bummed that the average person can no longer afford a modern bike. It seemed to me for a while after the 90's boom that there were some decent prices with components much nicer than what I had spent previously. My Trek is pretty sweet IMHO but $700 to $900 for a "starter" Mt bike seems like a lot of money for an average Joe who just wants to ride a bike.

[@JC-un4bg]

£1800 can’t even get you a decent hard tail anymore. You can literally buy a brand-new motocross bike. For the price Spesh is asking for . Mass production in a 3rd world country

[@thelakeman5207]

Bike sales are falling because, like cars, are priced out of range for most people. I buy a new bike at Walmart every 3 years. Ride the heck out of them and then throw 'em away. Spending $200 on a cheap bike is much better than $6,000 for a top of the line brand.

[@casestudymtb]

My lbs hasn't been able to match anything, if you can buy direct from manufacturer, no bike shop can beat those prices since their distributors paid their full price, which meant the bike shop pays the distributors full price. I've asked my lbs about a bunch of components the last couple months but I ultimately keep buying online.

[@PhilipBlank]

Spot on, I work on the inside of manufacturing, companies are trying to forecast and work ahead but the rising of interest rates has encouraged less frivolous spending on things you don’t really need (except for subscriptions, those are still up).

[@dadventuretv2538]

Hey if slows down how fast the industry can shove autoshift, ABS, and 32 in wheels down our throats, then I’m all for it.

[@Qyoon]

they were way too greedy and now gotta pay for it. This sport has been way too expensive on many aspect. Hopefully we gonna see cheaper good bikes from now on. Of course innovation and great specs comes at a high price. But you can't just sell bikes that cost the price of a car say it's because of innovation...

[@lozetchells9164]

Couldn't agree more with the "help out your local bike shop" point, well said

[@jojotherider1977]

I've been using my LBS for parts more and more the past year (drivetrains and maintenance stuff). The prices haven't been much more than the typical sites I use and I only have to go 3 blocks away. Plus I get to chat bikes and get whatever insights I can.

[@michaelviglianco6121]

I gave up on that. Mine are beyond terrible and lost my trust. No sympathy

[@WilliamBernal-si1pn]

I absolutely love seeing this happen . Hopefully prices keep plummeting . 12k for a mtb is ridiculous. This will cause components to drop on price as well . Excited

[@madyogi6164]

I wonder how do they came to the idea that every biker needs 5 bikes per year. I have one per 14 years so and going to use it as long as I can sit on it.

[@jensbomholt4529]

Planned obsolescence. Not user serviceable. Fad & bubble economy. Kids having no fathers who teach them how to fix things. Handywork being unworthy. Shopping economy. ... The list can go on forever: 21st century management fundamentals about how to rip off your customers...

[@michaelviglianco6121]

The whole KZbinr influencer thing where someone gets free stuff in exchange for doing marketing for the industry has created a false reality.

[@apollo_4xe]

Working for a larger bicycle parts distributor... we overbought, big time... now there's rumors we don't make it next year. It's gonna be a rough one for everyone involved in the industry.

[@mctrials23]

Will be interesting the second hand market because people are still trying to sell things A) based on what they paid 2+ years ago B) with unrealistically high prices based on the fact there are quite a lot of discounts around at the moment anyway. Your £7k bike probably isn't worth £5k 2 years later even though you have barely ridden it. Retailers are selling that 2 year old model for £4500 so you probably have to accept £3500 or less.

[@markbezzy]

Regards local bike shops they are dying out because none carry any stock now, whatever they can supply I can obtain cheaper avoiding their mark up which lastly leaves maintenance/repair and these days with the help of KZbin there are instructional videos on any task so they no longer offer a service that demands that premium price in my expirence.

[@WillEDC]

You are right. I even message a guy saying, is the price negotiable you are listing higher than a brand new one for your 2 years old model. He tells me to buy the brand new one then. His bike is still listed.

[@ddrowdy7666]

Uh.....it's the ridiculous pricing.

[@MTBr-of-SoCal]

I've been almost daily going to my fav bike brands and looking for crazy deals. I hit forbidden bikes every other day. They've got a huge sale but sold out on the build & size I want :(

[@SeanLewisMedia]

If a company cant stay in buisness because they made bad choices then thats on them. Thats how the system works, new people will enter, probably get greed and face the same issues. I just choose to get what I need and not to fall into these blatant marketing traps. I think we see most industries go through this same issue over the next few years. Things change and things get less popular to the masses. The people who really enjoy will stay and there will be enough product to go around regardless. The innovation seems to have stalled anyways, or they are just making crap no one really needs. Great video! Hopefully the people who work in the industry and actually do the work in shops all over the country dont get hit to hard by the suits greed.

[@marksandoval5361]

Nobody is feeling sorry for the bike industry. Prices went up as much as 50%. Bikes were unavailable especially affordable builds. Local bike shops refused to give discounts on new bikes and generally treated their long term customers like crap. Greed and price gouging ruled the industry. Let me cry some fake tears for them.

[@Elinzar]

I tried to get into the bicycle hobby but im broke I bought a cheap used bike, turned out to be absolute trash, i went to look up for parts to replace the absolutely dreadful shimano tourney set, upgrade to shimano sora will cost basically more than the bike Also wheels cost an absolute fortune Everything is So God Dam Expensive... And i didnt even look at the car on parts I said F this i will keep with the Pc hobby its way more affordable Like let that sink in, a computer, one of the most advanced tech pieces that requires way more r&d to develop, infinitely more complicated to assemble is more affordable than what amounts to a bunch of alu tubes and some rubber and in the case of the new wireless sets, a couple of 15 buck servos and cheap arse bluetooth controlers you could make yourself with an arduino nano and some coding The entire industry is made to milk the customers as much as they can and if i find the pc industry disgusting, this one is just ridiculous

[@Elinzar]

Edit: i meant carbon not car