EP17 Engineering Victory with Elon

Elon Musk and Bill Riley from SpaceX join Dan to discuss the underappreciated role of science and engineering in war. As you might imagine, military aircraft feature prominently in the conversation.
1. The Wages of destruction by Adam Tooze2. The Art of War by Sun Tzu 3.The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy by Adam Tooze

[@musaran2]

0:00 intro 4:01 engineer's war 9:18 WW2 10:58 tactics 12:50 production tradeoffs 14:29 discrepancy adjustment 16:15 reverse engineering & spec margins 22:48 octane 26:00 "best" plane 30:18 RSP air development 34:56 ground attack 37:29 battle of Britain 41:33 inter-war designs 43:36 what if 46:35 operational tradeoffs 50:34 non-firer vs ace 52:40 upgrades 54:42 drones 58:34 using new tech 1:01:28 space war 1:04:09 WW3 1:08:02 terrorism 1:09:38 past advances 1:16:30 tech dominance 1:21:49 WW2 flipped 1:24:39 WW1 vs WW2 Germans 1:28:32 roman engineering 1:30:50 etymology 1:35:26 closing

[@OnionKnight541]

you forgot baby sounds @1:12:20

[@glovester]

praise

[@tevanD]

Literal legend

[@Slaphappy1975]

thank you!

[@christopherdobrinski9669]

not all heroes wear capes

[@WebbiestZeus]

Dude it's 4am I guess I'm gonna stay up

[@JameBlack]

It's 13 00 pm here in Ukraine so I'm happy

[@WebbiestZeus]

@@JameBlack it's 536am in Toronto

[@seandawson5899]

@@JameBlack hello stranger in the Ukraine, is Dan Carlin big there?

[@JameBlack]

@@seandawson5899 I would not say so, humanities, history etc are too culturally dependent topics, most people want to learn something new and useful from fellow Americans so we rather prefer such topics as technology, business, popular culture etc. Usually we learn a lot of history at school and even such exotic thing as Japanese Imperialism is rather well covered.

[@seandawson5899]

@@JameBlack that's super interesting, thank you for taking the time to share!

[@thomasbarrack1384]

How have only 50,000 people watched this? It's a 75min+ long form podcast with Elon Musk, Dan Carlin, and the top engineer at SpaceX, there is rarely content with Elon longer than an hour, and with one of the best modern storytellers of history all in one. Can't get enough of this!!

[@etucker82]

Because it was uploaded three days ago.

[@padrescout]

Also because Elon musk is kind of a toxic jerk and like myself, I suspect a lot of people are torn between wanting to hear Dan but …. Elon musk is there and …. Jeez, that guys probably not an idiot. Probably. Though his Twitter account is pretty compelling evidence he actually is just stupid.

[@thomasbarrack1384]

@@padrescout Where's the laugh emoji when you need it. A toxic jerk? Lmaooo. That's why no one tries to innovate at scale, because when they actually do, people say dumb stuff like that. He's currently pioneering in like 5 different sectors beyond what most people thought possible, and with his own money initially. And all at the same time. What a jerk.

[@padrescout]

@@thomasbarrack1384 "Beyond what most peple thought possible"? Sure Jan. As for Toxic... I'm sorry - what do you call someone who is a public figure using their Twitter as a platform to attack people they dont like? For example .... his whole ... calling that diver a pedophile for saving those kids and telling him his minisub idea wouldnt work? Thats just one example but he doers that ... basically constantly. He's a toxic jerk. Oh yeah, that time he had his people try and frame an ex employee for calling in bomb threats ........ he basically does this all the time. Read up sir, his twitter is easy to find. Even easier to find people who are cataloging them for easy reference.

[@thomasbarrack1384]

@@padrescout Twitter is a dumpster fire, no one contests that. Elon is one of the most attacked people in high society, yet he's actually one if the most ethical billionaires that exist as well him being the only one paving new roads along multiple frontiers. There are people who are worth of being "attacked" for their stupidity, and incompetence.

[@Jaredskoll]

I didn't expect Grimes to show up at the end lmao

[@newjacka94]

Are they still together?

[@JupiterCobalt]

@@newjacka94 No, divorced or otherwise separated recently. This must have been recorded a bit ago

[@darrenm01]

I think they are calling it “semi-separated”.

[@Ben.....]

@@newjacka94 who the hell knows lol

[@kindog86]

A comment above said the name Claire?

[@joshuarogers7029]

Dan Carlin and Elon talking war engineering history. This simulation just gets better!

[@chillylizerd]

Yeah it's beyond wild because drone space wars here we come!

[@dazingamaine4318]

the expansion pack is about to drop @@chillylizerd

[@jeremygegogeine5865]

Love how excited the three guys are talking about this stuff. Nice to know other people love learning and discussing this subject matter.

[@jfamily5626]

Holy cow Elon knows history. I am a high school history teacher and will incorporate a lot of this into my lessons. Thank you!

[@spritemultipack]

Thinking how sick history class would be if you played war games. Like a turn based thing where you gain xp each round to unlock certain technologies which increase your probability of winning but these unlocks are hidden and you have multiple technology trees to spend points in. Encouraging the kids to actually learn the history at home so they have an idea of what they're going to unlock and how strong it might be. And having it so controlling certain areas increase the amount of xp you have to spend each round

[@olivergilpin]

Good on you - sounds fun :)

[@alok_deswal]

elon musk is a student of history

[@lancelance9314]

@Black Lesbian Poet low effort troll

[@ABigNUT69]

Im a PE teacher.. same.

[@alexanderkenway]

Whoa, this was much better than I thought it'd be

[@NT-or9wh]

Man, I’ve been following HH since the early 2010’s. This is awesome.

[@Btn1136]

It’s a big moment for the fans too. Hearing Elon as excited as Dan was special. Elon referenced several HH episode/series.

[@House_of_Schmidt]

I love these in depth technical talks!!!

[@leeshepherd834]

Like the etymology of "balls to the wall" xD

[@anomyxstudios1431]

The greatest christmas present Carlin could have given us! Thank you!

[@1509Freeze]

Günther Rall, who shot down 275 allied aircraft, was also asked why Germany had such high scoring aces. First, he said, you had to find targets if you went on a mission. The Germans always had plenty of targets. Compared to this, some american pilots flew 50 missions and barely saw an enemy fighter over Germany, specially later in the war. Number two, how long did pilots stay in the cockpit. Germany never had enough pilots, so everybody had to fly until they got either an iron cross, or a wooden one. The US had a different system with rotation, none of their pilots flew as many missions as some of the german aces.

[@rohw0016]

I like how it’s kind of subtle that Elon is on this episode. Most podcasts would of had it plastered across the thumbnail.

[@Jevaughn]

Carlin is infamous for non-hyping his output while deserving to hype it.

[@ppppppqqqppp]

It is *literally* in the name of the episode.

[@rohw0016]

@@ppppppqqqppp thumbnail… algorithm is affected most by thumbnail.

[@coreyw2124]

When I clicked on it I thought Dan was going to use Elon as an example of engineering innovation and tie it back to different engineering advancements in history. I didn’t realize it was an interview until I started listening. You’re right, most people would hype this up like crazy in the thumbnail and put an over the top title. Dan really does just under hype and overdeliver.

[@966631514]

and they would have introduced him as "time's person of the year and world's richest man!"

[@JKfilmzor]

Long time fan, I could hear the giddy excitement in both your voices! Like two people who knew they’d get on like a house on fire before they ever met and couldn’t wait to talk! Hope this becomes a somewhat regular thing.

[@glennedwardpace3784]

I love how they couldn’t stop geeking out with each other

[@alexanderwang2632]

It's really bizarre and cool how casual and good this conversation is; It's funny to hear you two struggle to not close out. I would love for more Dan/Elon military history that goes into esoteric topics

[@Reblwitoutacause]

They literally had to have Elon and his wife and child come in to get then to quit hahaha

[@josephmazerac982]

Very interesting to hear Elon Musk talk in-depth about internal combustion engines. Great to get to listen in on this conversation.

[@craigharness3156]

I can hear the chieftain going ballistic about the Sherman lol

[@Ben.....]

Literally the first thing I thought of when he mentioned the sherman

[@AnonCoder37]

This is a fantastic conversation. Thank you.

[@AnirudhPsychPixel]

Pleasantly surprised. Thanks Dan.

[@TheRuntane]

Elon Musk talking history with Dan. This was actually a dream of my that I didin't know I had:D

[@vimalcurio]

Why

[@JameBlack]

They should have talked more about Werner von Braun and his rockets

[@will01819]

I think talking up a known Nazi wouldn't have been a good headline for Elon.

[@cretium805]

@@will01819 Elon doesn't care

[@will01819]

@@Reiman33 i think the fact that he hung the 5 slowest jews in front of his rocket factory in Germany makes him a card carrying- Nazi... call me crazy...

[@will01819]

@@cretium805 I'm willing to bet he does

[@mpgallogly]

@@Reiman33 didn't he hang the slowest workers in his factory on a regular basis to inspire the rest of his slaves to work harder? That sure sounds like a fucking nazi to me.

[@benjaminjeffery6873]

This is amazing Dan, thank you! Would absolutely love to see you have a good 2-4 hour podcast with Victor Davis Hanson, and one with Adrian Goldsworthy. That would be phenomenal.

[@AC-th8df]

One of my favorite podcasts/ conversations.

[@HungryTacoBoy]

The comments here are very supportive, helpful, and talk about what was actually discussed. The Twitter replies to the tweet that contained this episode have plenty of people saying they're upset that Elon was platformed, that they're going to pass on this episode, that they can't stand Elon, etc. It's a rather stark contrast, honestly. I think I agree with Dave Chappelle: Twitter isn't a real place. I think it rewards hostility. Excellent chat. I learned a lot about warfare history through this, honestly.

[@HungryTacoBoy]

@@kellymckay4169 When I deleted my Twitter account in 2018 I didn't miss it a single bit. It's an odd medium where the only way to communicate anything is via a tweet, with rather harsh character limit, or a like.

[@jamescoppe]

Twitter skews quite left whereas KZbin is more centrist/right. Elon is demonised by hard-leftists who are jealous of his wealth.

[@LTVoyager]

@@jamescoppe I see youtube as left of center given their level of censorship/demonetization.

[@jamescoppe]

@@LTVoyager The people running it are more left than the people using it I think.

[@LTVoyager]

@@jamescoppe No doubt.

[@andrewshoaf1842]

Elon: The F6F hellcat was kinda blocky... Cybertruck: Am I joke to you?

[@TheJoshuaPimentel]

Musk: yes

[@johnnyappleseed79]

Musk: You are edgy.

[@alesksander]

@@johnnyappleseed79 Thanks dad xD

[@TheJpwzrd]

Thanks for recording and posting Dan!

[@bajolunapod]

Wonderful conversation through and through though. I hope to listen to episode 2 on 2022 as well.

[@DCapps1994]

I might not agree with Elon's views on a lot of things, but I respect the man's mind, and the contributions he is making to so many fields. Anytime Dan releases a new podcast episode no matter if it's HH HH Addendum or Common Sense I am here. Much love Dan you have gotten me through many long shifts at work, long walks at night, and moments when I needed to forget the troubles of my circumstances at the time. Never change Dan.

[@phunkracy]

what contributions did he make in any field?

[@DCapps1994]

@@phunkracy You know the companies he has established. I'm assuming you are saying this because you like I don't agree with his politics which I stated in my initial comment.

[@phunkracy]

@@DCapps1994 so he contributed money. thats a great contribution indeed, cannot be overstated in how many fields he contributed money.

[@DCapps1994]

@@phunkracy Have a nice day or night where ever you are. I hope all is well with you and your loved ones.

[@phunkracy]

@@DCapps1994 love to you too and remember not to drink the kool aid

[@tamarakuhn1634]

Around 1:30:43 Claire enters the conversation and encourages Elon to tell the story of the etymology of the phrase “balls to the walls” tracing back to the controls of steam engines and its use during WWII. Nice to end the conversation with a bit of humor.

[@bentray1908]

Glad they seem to have stopped short of all the way to Splitsville

[@kindog86]

Who is Claire? Was that not Grimes

[@mattmarket5642]

@@kindog86 Same person. Claire = legal name. Grimes = stage name.

[@hannahlennertkristiansen4797]

I'm literally here for C

[@hannahlennertkristiansen4797]

@@mattmarket5642 more like project name, idk to be more accurate and just to be respectful and I'm borderline in love for all the works she created

[@DominicDSouza]

Wonderful conversation. Thank you for hosting and sharing!

[@GeneralJackRipper]

Another book suggestion: _Engineers of Victory: The Problem Solvers Who Turned The Tide in the Second World War_ by Paul Kennedy

[@e.w.132]

1:12:50 "little X here" haha love it!

[@davidlakhter]

1:28:00 man I can't wait for the next discussion - what a great podcast

[@bluedeskfan2754]

That was awesome. Fascinating chat with some great minds.

[@moonasha]

this was awesome, I really hope there is an episode two that does go into more specific detail about battles.

[@greenway6316]

Thank you Dan.. Elon was on fire detailing historical detail. Great podcast. What an interesting listen

[@AbdulRWatches]

We need more of those discussions please Dan, amazing talk from the three of you. Thanks Dan 👍👍

[@dongusto713]

Dan pumping out addendum shows is a nice appetizer before the main course

[@Engelvontot79]

Wow, what a great conversation!!

[@kristofferjohnsen4002]

Dan Carlin and Elon Musk in the same podcast talking about space?! I died and went to heaven.

[@asdf23020202ll]

"Because Technology moved very slowly it was more about tactics and strategy and whatnot" is what people will say about corporate CEOs of the 1900s. But in this century the Technologists are king, aka Technoking.

[@-Zevin-]

Technoking sounds way cooler than it actually is. I am imagining a dude with purple shutter shades and and a cyberpunk haircut, instead we get people like Zuckerberg in a turtleneck destroying society with social media.

[@corneliuscapitalinus845]

Technocrats are our misfortune

[@w0mblemania]

Many of the key industrialists and revolutionaries in the 1800s and 1900s were technologists. History repeats.

[@hypno5690]

@@corneliuscapitalinus845 new thing bad. Progress bad. Future scary.

[@epyjacek]

Wow what a great conversation, please make it happen boys!

[@chadmorral1326]

Amazing chat! Loved this soo much.

[@Fearinator]

Always love your content but LOVED this chat. Love you, love Elon and LOVED the sentimental outro. Hope you are well mate

[@Razzie.]

It's so kind of Elon to have Dan on his podcast. ☺️

[@joshc1394]

Amazing epsiode. Please do another.

[@newenglandbarbell4647]

More of these please Dan 🙏👏

[@windowzombie]

Awesome talk, cool hearing Elon and Grimes laughing at the end, too!

[@lukefisher1858]

That wasn't grimes haha

[@windowzombie]

@@lukefisher1858 Yes it was, he called her Claire. Grimes' real name is Claire Boucher.

[@ecocoecocoable]

what min?

[@windowzombie]

@@ecocoecocoable 1:30:25

[@Ronnie_Z]

A lovely early Xmas present from Mr. Carlin 😊

[@vimalcurio]

Musk

[@harrybarone3577]

Listening to very smart people ask the right questions is enlightening and entertaining. As a kid I built all the WWII models, and the P 38 was my favorite. Hardcore history was the first podcast I geeked out to years ago. Oh, and I work at Tesla, so this conversation was awesome.

[@oneminutereviews25]

I love me some Dan Carlin. Been blowing my mind for years. Thanks for another great one

[@jasonmiller7735]

There's a KZbin channel called Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles that has a lot of really good information on topics touched on in this podcast. I would particularly recommend the video "German C3 Fuel, Uber Octane or Synthetic Crap?" for more on comparative fuel octanes and their effects on performance, and also " P-38 Lightning Why Not Merlin Engines?" for more on why a Merlin-powered P-38 might not have been as big a deal as Elon imagines.

[@steventhompson399]

I saw his channel a little while ago and it looked like he had some detailed videos on niche topics that I haven't seen covered before. I only watched a couple so far so I can't give an opinion on the whole channel. But, if you can listen to technical stuff about things like that he seems to know what he's talking about. I'm not particularly an aircraft engineering nut but some of that is interesting and gives you a greater appreciation of that aspect of the war

[@lukevonderohe2937]

I’ve been enjoying that channel for quite awhile. He is also very easy to listen to. You can get quite a bit out of it just having it on when you do something else.

[@jeffreyland9447]

I been a subscriber to both channels for years and Greg's is great on WW2 planes. He gives a good argument on why the P47 was maybe the best fighter, especially the later models -D and later. They were used for ground attack near the end because the big radial could take a hit and provide some protection for the pilot.

[@tomchelle1]

For people who follow Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles, this is a high level summarization. Greg does such a good job packaging the math/engineering lingo in a way the average motor head can follow. I bet Elon is aware of his channel

[@amosbackstrom5366]

Shoutout for the suggestion Jason, I checked him out a while ago and his expertise is something I've been missing. Came back here to say thanks

[@leafcastbrotherdan725]

Thank you Dan! This really couldve been helped by showing the planes you were discussing on screen. I understand this is from a podcast, but tKZbin is a visual medium, and i really wouldve benefitted by just basic pictures of the machines you were discussing. Great interview!

[@966631514]

thought the same thing. let's give him a couple days....

[@StevenMartinGuitar]

I was about to comment this exact sentiment. Would have loved to see these planes

[@thecrazyandthewild]

Fascinating. Thanks!

[@Smt_Glaive]

thankyou for this, two of my favorite things together, Airplanes and ELOn love it

[@magicicadaprime3570]

What a dream podcast episode. Thank you for making this happening!

[@JoeVirella]

Love this!!! I think Elon loves history more than we know.

[@TurnRacing]

This has been one of my favorite conversations to listen to I wish there was so much more!

[@topdog5252]

@@TurnRacing yes! I really hope they’ll come back on some time, hopefully for longer.

[@sarcasmo57]

It was nice Dan. Thanks.

[@jimmydean4671]

I ain't never slapped a bell so hard in my life. Glad to hear more Carlin!

[@mdhofstee]

A note on the M4 Sherman. The tank was upgraded during the war. When it first came out it had small turret with a medium length 75mm gun, during the next year or so it received a better turret that ad the ability to carry a long barreled 75mm gun ( it was called the 76mm ). The biggest issue with US tanks during the war was not the gun or the armor both were good enough for the task, it was the engine and transmission being separate. The engine was in the back and the transmission was in the front which forced US tanks to have higher hull versus British tanks that had a lower hull as they put both in the rear. Had the US created a tank with the entire engine pack in the rear it would have reduced the height of the tank, which in turn lowers the weight which could be put back in the tank as armor. The only consideration is the ease of access of the transmission that the front housing afforded. Had they designed the engine pack to slide out on rails in the rear it would have been the best tank design in the world. On Wikipedia there is a cutaway of the Sherman and nearly a third of the hull height was dedicated to the shaft that runs underneath the turret. Given that amount of armor dedicated on the side and the front I can easily say they could have added half an inch to the front and sides which would have increased the front sloped armor to an effective 4.4 inches and the sides would go up to 2 inches. Never mind the fact that the Sherman had as much as a Tiger or Panther already. The final point of the Sherman is the gun. Yes the 75mm gun that it started with was not the best gun for anti tank work it did have a benefit of a slower shell that made the HE shell more potent as it needed less steel. And HE matters for infantry as they rather have a platoon of tanks take out MG nests with the first shot so they dont get shot. As for the 90mm gun that required a larger turret which in turn requires a larger hull which in turn means you are getting less armor for a given weight.

[@adamboley5902]

This is what many people miss. The Sherman was good enough for the task at hand, and available in massive numbers. It could be repaired easily and the crew could escape quickly.

[@hope42]

My father flew the Corsair F4U "whistling death" and was one of the top 5 youngest fighter pilots in WWII. The F4U in my mind was the baddest engineering marvel of WWII, even said to be able to out battle a P51. George Bush Sr. Is said to be the youngest pilot born June 12th, 1924. My father was born April 21, 1924 and on schedule to get his wings earlier than George but he had pull from his father who was the Admiral of the Navy and pushed his son thru just beating barely breathing out my father as the youngest pilot in Naval Aviation. He died recently on 2/17/2020 at 94. I need to KZbin his stories like bombing Pearl Harbor every day for practice.

[@hope42]

My father also had to acquire 2 successful night carrier landings to acquire his wings, luckily assisted by 2 full moons after Daddy Admiral Bush added this requirement after so many pilots died landing at night after the battle of the Midway. I think George Bush Sr. did not have this requirement which also allowed him to get his wings sooner. My father told me he had to turn his Corsair plane sideways to be able to see the hook since the Corsair long nose made it impossible to see.

[@russellblake9850]

@@hope42 probably why F4Us were used mostly by the marines (on land bases). I can't imagine the forward visibility of an F4U in landing configuration (pitched up) looking for a postage stamp to land on. too bad about your father (being pipped by politics) ... t'was ever thus. He did his bit and probably didn't want the fame (well, not until someone grand-standed).

[@hope42]

@@russellblake9850 Well said ... Most young 18 year olds washed out cause they could not understand calculus. My father had only luck on his side. The Navy bunked my father up with and older Master in mathematics pilot. My father said there is no way he could have got his wings without his bunk mate special tutoring. So many stories ... I love the vast knowledge of the brilliant people out on the internet and how Elon can magnet attract them to whatever he talks about. I already admired Elon and hard to believe my respect could elevate higher knowing he knows the engineering details of the WWII fighter planes.

[@hope42]

@@russellblake9850 When my dad flew the Corsair F4U in the Navy, he had to turn the plane sideways to see the ground or the hook before landing. The nose was so long that it blocked his view, so he had to make a tricky maneuver to get a better look before landing safely. He had the best stories. Like landing on the USS Wolverine, which was not an aircraft carrier, but rather converted to a training ship used for pilot training during World War II.

[@phillipjustman]

Holy cow what a Monday morning surprise / treat!

[@BuckBreaker]

Two of my favorite people talking about engineering, fighter planes and tanks of the Second World War, priceless. I hope you two get back together sooner than later. One topic I want you to cover the next time y'all get together is the Easter Front. Specifically what fighters were in action, I legit have no clue, also dive bombers like the Stuka with it's massive cannons, and just how insanely chaotic those battles must have been, like Kursk for example. The massed infantry, tank columns, aircraft, rockets, artillery, and so forth. This came out just as I am listening to Ost Front for the second time. From an engineering perspective, can you two delve into just how maddening a decision it was and how vital the execution must have been to tear down all the Soviet armament, aircraft, and ammunition factories in Western Russia and move them into the Urals and Siberia? Logistically, in the middle of a war, it seems impossible to pull it off, but they did. And last, if you could get into Albert Speer. His book, 'Inside the Third Reich' is insightful and informative. Thanks again, can't wait for Round 2!

[@jamiechappell9116]

I really wanted Elon to expand on why he felt Wellington was underrated..

[@topdog5252]

🍊

[@StevieObieYT]

KZbin needs more people like Dan Carlin 👍

[@dcooper6142]

The ending story is great!

[@palantir6165]

Gotta say, didnt see that one coming. What a treat!

[@SB-xt5jk]

Honestly impressed with Elon's grasp of history. I probably shouldn't be surprised, but here we are.

[@musaran2]

Considering how much he works, I don't understand how he has the time to learn so much.

[@SoumilSahu]

Yeah the sheer amount of stuff he knows is absolutely insane. It would take a normal person multiple lifetimes to learn this much

[@waynewayne8419]

@@SoumilSahu imagine believing this nonsense

[@waynewayne8419]

@@musaran2 there is always time to learn. It doesn't matter how much you work.

[@MyElectricAdv]

@@waynewayne8419 Elon has photographic memory.

[@Magmatic91]

Really enjoyed this podcast. Musk is really one of a kind.

[@sinemetu9037]

Superb Dan as always and all the best for the New Year.

[@Elonics101]

Fantastic show, thanks…Geo

[@lancer8830]

Love the rock, paper, scissors analogy…its no so much what you think about but how you think about it..this is where elons true genius is

[@robbiewalsh6965]

You've just made my day! Cant say how long I've been waiting for this! Dan the more conversations you have the more I want you to have a regular weekly podcast!

[@CL-we8tn]

I second that wholeheartedly

[@codypanek]

Dan----- this was an absolute treat. Finally had an evening where the kiddos went to be early and I could relax and listen on my patio.

[@gladimarv3855]

Awesome episode!!!!!

[@dcooper6142]

Neurolink aside, Elon is certainly one of the most fascinating men of our time. I always enjoy listening to interviews with him because he is so casual in his conversations. You can imagine just randomly sitting next to him at a bar and striking up a couple hours long talk.

[@737smartin]

You think Neurolink is more mundane than fascinating, then?

[@horsemumbler1]

27:40 Yes, there are a lot of other variables, and the cool thing is that the Hellcat wins by those, too. It wasn't the absolute best in terms of performance, even in the American Stables, but it was close enough to being the best as to make little difference. What it was the beat at, hands down, was being an easy to use gunnery platform with extremely forgiving handling and landing characteristics, particularly a very slow and gentle low apeed stall. The importance of these advantages are difficult to overstate. While a craft that was slightly superior in performance, the F4U Corsair, gained the names "Hog, and "Ensign Eliminator" for it's treacherous and deadly difficulty to land, the F6F cat was known as the "Kitten" and the "Ace Maker." It deserved those accolades. There were 305 Hellcat aces, more than any other fighter. Hellcats destroyed more enemy aircraft and had a higher kill to loss ratio than any other aircraft ever made(The F-15 excepted). The Hellcat is just plain easy to fly. It's easy to be good when you have a machine that is easy to use and get back home. The extreme competence and scarcely rivaled training and doctrine of the Naval Aviators who flew them was another impressive and vital factor, but more on that later. 28:38 I'd rather be in a Hellcat than an Corsair or a Mustang, especially if I had to fly over water and land on a little island or an aircraft carrier at the end of the day. It was a real pilot's aircraft. 29:39 19:1 Kill ratio. Training did have a significant factor, as the USN, along with the Finns, were the only fighting air force force to truely master deflection shooting, making them lethal from all angles. Other forces had a select few who mastered the art, but the USN trained it as standard. The training combined with the platform made the differenc together. 33:55 Just over twice.

[@namasteanil]

Thanks Dan , for this 🙏

[@shrimperlincs3395]

Nice one Dan!

[@Stickyrolls123]

The most overestimated aspects of warfare are technology and number of troops. The most important aspects are logistics and morale. Dan showing his knowledge here by understanding that and using Afghanistan and Vietnam as his argument

[@DevinDTV]

gotta agree with Elon. if the US went no holds barred, it woulda been over in months

[@1flash3571]

Number of troops don't matter much if you don't have good leaders. If you have superior technology, then that is a BIG HELP. Without Good leader(s) leading the troops, logistics and morale don't matter much. Just look at Sun Szu, and other leaders with smaller army beating larger armies. Better leader DO win wars.

[@Rays_Bad_Decisions]

@@1flash3571 very true the eastern front of WW2

[@VoidVerses]

I disagree with you that morale and logistics is more important in warfare. The only reason why America did not do well in Vietnam and Afganistán is because they follow restrictive rules of engagement. For instance, American soldiers were not allowed to engage blatant enemies until being shot at. This is not only a massive disadvantage, but it handicaps offensive and allows the enemy the first move. American troops could have completely annihilated their enemies, disregarding logistics or morale. Technology and army composition to a situation will always be king 👑

[@terryeasterday580]

@@VoidVerses Technology does you no good, if you can't get it in the hands of the troops. Troops do you no good, if you can't get them there. With what they need. The trucks won't go, without gas. It all needs to work together. And remember.... The Beatings will Continue Until Morale Improves!

[@moseshamlett3887]

I really hope Dan does the Napoleonic wars some day. That would be awesome. Can't wait for his next big project though, whatever it may be.

[@HomeshighlandPark]

All my favorite people talking about my favorite subject !

[@UrbanmovingSystemz]

The fact that this is free for everyone to consume makes me genuinely optimistic for the human race.

[@ctskelly]

I'm only halfway through, but this is one of the best podcasts I've ever heard. It provides a whole new way to think about war. Love it...and now a fan of Elon Musk. Interesting, being an addict to the PC game, Order of Battle, the plane types and their performance makes total sense, thanks to the experiential learning gained through the game.

[@cg1699576400]

Wonderful; really happy to hear this :)

[@HomeFromFarAway]

please, please do more? please! what a delight

[@cole54311]

A very audible and loud YES erupted from my mouth when I heard the notification for this video pop up on my phone

[@colejewell]

Just finished Lex Fridman’s most recent episode w/ Norman Naimark where they came to the agreement that “not enough engineers are well versed in history” then bam.. One of the most prominent modern historians hosts one of the most prominent modern engineers. Well done, sir!

[@huxwellmuttonstash6197]

Hes not an engineer, he's a rich kid who hired prominent engineers to make his fortune.

[@biggieb8900]

@@huxwellmuttonstash6197 Actually he's more like a rich kid who did hostile takeovers of companies already filled with engineers.

[@7secularsermons]

I couldn't name a more prominent engineer working today than Elon. Can you?

[@dluchin1998]

@@huxwellmuttonstash6197 He has a degree in physics, is the Chief Engineer at SpaceX, and is the Product Architect at Tesla. I think that makes him an engineer..

[@huxwellmuttonstash6197]

@@dluchin1998 I guess if you are rich and "successful" you can call yourself anything and people will rush to defend you. To think I could call myself God emperor of Tesla if I was born in his shoes does make me envious.

[@RoarkLaughed]

Wow...what a gift for this Monday! Early Christmas gift! An hour in and....well we need more Dan and Elon.

[@in-gameambience3470]

this is awesome

[@claudeyaz]

This needs to be bigger episode

[@claudeyaz]

Tbh it feels like it has been artificially algorithmically or otherwise....suppressed

[@ppppppqqqppp]

​@@claudeyaz most sane people absolutely loathe elon he's a controversial figure outside of the redditors that worship him, so of course people are way more likely to skip this one I swear you weirdos will jump to conspiracy before even considering that people might just think differently to you.

[@lufwaffeaircraft]

They did make a twin boom Mustang with two Merlins, it was called the F-82. Never saw combat though.

[@StuSaville]

I think F-82's saw some degree of combat during the Korean War

[@cristianespinal9917]

Now those were incredibly funky. Unlike the P-38 with the single cockpit on the centerline, for those who don't know, the F-82 Twin Mustang looked like 2 P-51 Mustangs fused together. Two full Mustang fuselages with two full cockpits make up the two booms and then they're joined by an inboard wing and rudder surface. Don't remember anything about their operational history, only how hideous yet cool those things looked.

[@rasputin5746]

Elon knows his stuff , awesome podcast.

[@I_AM_G_FORCE]

Thank you for talking to the world.

[@karenbethvino9412]

This was intense.I believe we had 4 guest on this show.

[@Mercury6_]

Man I didn’t even know the homie Elon got down with military history, strategy, resources, and raw materials to that high degree.

[@karlotmvilla]

I suspect that it is an engineer's concept of "fun".

[@worldshaper1723]

Oh yeah! He is a big fan of Alexander the great the macedonian. Elon reads a lot.

[@steventhompson399]

Yeah, I didn't know he liked that stuff either, so cool! I've been fascinated by military history since I got into it around the 7th and 8th grades and have consistently been learning bits and pieces since then, it's the only subject I haven't got tired of or taken a break from, yet. But almost all my friends have been decidedly uninterested in it so I have to enjoy it in solitude

[@-homerow-]

I feel like if you put Elon Musk instead of just Elon this video would have performed a lot better

[@clemsonalum98]

What to listen now but saving this for a drive I have to make tonight

[@charlibryant5543]

Here's to being in this together! 🥂