why don't they make the Mark VI anymore?

[@joeblankenship377]

Given the choice, I'd take a brand new Yanagisawa over a vintage Mark VI.

[@goinxnginx]

Me, too. I did just that 18 years ago and would not trade it for anything.

[@marklang7486]

+1 here. Exactly what I did.

[@vladimirlopez7840]

I just ordered my Yanigasawa tenor yesterday!

[@oleflogger6828]

Well, I bought my Mark VI tenor sax (#84xxx) for $215 in 1964 from Sam Ash Music in Hempstead, NY. I still play it, and I love it more now than when I first bought it. And, I still get compliments on its sound.

[@oleflogger6828]

Oh, I almost forgot: it was appraised in 2011 for $8,000!

[@alansenzaki4148]

My late brother loved his selmer markVI early sixties. I have it now although i don't play it. He also had a beautiful mint old Conn (circa late twenties) that charles lloyd has now after his was stolen years ago. Love your channel and really enjoyed the selmer paris tour. Thank you so much!

[@Craig2760]

Bottom line, there are a lot of great saxes from the past and a lot of great saxes being made today. The Mark VI got a reputation because they hit it right with some fantastic sounding horns from the VI pedigree. Many of the horns coming out of Taiwan and other places are modeled after the VI. I have a late model VI tenor(220’s) I’m the original owner. It’s been overhauled twice in 40 years. Went thru a time when if I would have gotten a tattoo it would have been the Selmer logo. Got a chance to play Mark Colby’s Reference 54 when they first came out. The horn blew me away, so did the price. Prices of VI’s on eBay are insane. Players can justifiably trash talk VI’s based a comparison of some great horns built today but, the legacy of the VI can’t be denied. Sure, if I had a chance to own a King Silver Sonic back in the day I would have jumped at it and my view of VI’s might be different. My first sax was my dad’s Martin. I’ve owned Yamaha and Buffet tenors, Keilworth Bari, Buescher and Selmer (VI and Super sax) altos. Currently own a P. Mauriat 76 alto and love it. And last but not least a Conn Soprano. I’ll keep my VI tenor until I’m dead. If you find a horn that you can say that about, no matter who built it, that’s a wonderful thing.

[@esfahan1961]

None of the sax legends like John Coltrane, Stan Getz, Ike Quebec, Stanley Turrantine or Coleman Hawkins had the opportunity to play on. Series III or Reference 36 or 54. If they had, they may have dumped their Mark VI for a more modern horn.

[@macs7641]

Really good point my friend. Well said.

[@MKD371]

This is simply speculation, that they would have switched to modern horns, what we do know many of the pro players today, still stick with an older Mk VI, including, Levano, Brecker, Marsalis and the list goes on. A good mk VI is simply devine to play, this obsession people have with attempting to detract from a mk6 simply for the sake of it is pointless. Being a pro player who has worked with countless named artists, from John Dankworth to Ronnie Wood, I can say without a doubt, the mk6 horns I have played are simply better. The resonance, the projection, the focus, the ergonomics and ease of airflow, the articulation, the range are all superior on a 6. The other argument is, well it depends on what you want to play. As a player, you have to be able to play anything, avant garde classical stuff, intricate metre stuff and so forth. Can this be done on any other horn? Yes, however, most horns have the ergonomics all wrong, and the durability of the horn is of poor workmanship. Myth 3, if we're counting it up, many people who distrust the myth of a mk6 have not had the opportunity to play one which has been expertly set up. I can't tell you how many stores and repairers I have been to in the Uk alone, who produce, stuffy non-responsive, sub-par work, yes the horn will just about play, and for the average player, they might not even notice, what it is they are looking for, to that end, I would say there are about two good repair technicians in the entire country, who really understand how to set up a horn and repair it properly. The States, tends to have far better repairers. Putting this all into context, imagine what it would have been like to be alive in the 30's when the balanced action was totally new, or in the 50's when the mk6 was totally new? Given how well they play today, I can only imagine they would have been crazy good. Finally there were obviously other horns around back in the day, and yet most of the pro\s still stuck with the 6.

[@MKD371]

And I forgot, follow on to my comment above, if you take the Nexus horn, newly minted in the States, you find that they are stripping back the horn to the original mk6 design, taking all the clunk and key mechanisms which add weight and are simply not needed, hindering resonance and so forth. In fact so many brands, are harking back to the vintage mk6 in a bid to make their horns more playable. The one thing they all get wrong, possibly bar the Nexus, is the feel of the key work and position of said keyword for a start. The neck and taper of its curve is also misjudged, along with the bore. So the ultimate question of which mk 6 should they resurrect properly? Take your pick, they've done the reference horns, which are not quite there, a perfect starting place, would be a mk6 from the year it was invented 1954 - 1958, another good range is the one that Rollins still played until 10 years ago, the 1967 mk6, which changed the F mechanism, sadly, yet still played well, fluid and resonant. The mk6 as we all know in the 50's had the F mechanism soldered, and or adjoined directly to the key cup, if you check Brecker's mk6 there is also a mini arm soldered to the E key, for extra key closure and fluidity, a custom job, there's a pattern here with fluidity and ease of playing, however that is only one part of it. The other part is the weight of the copper zinc alloy, which they could start introducing again, for a start, thirdly, the size and spacing of the tone-holes, and key cup design, closer spacing with the f mechanism on 50's mk6's due to the adjoining arm soldered to the f key, not many horns have that today, I wonder why? It's so good. The other big secret is the smooth shallow metal domed resonators, stick those in your pads and you will be stunned and how much better the horn plays, and I don't mean the metal resonators with a crinkle in them, or any fancy warbled crinkle action going on anywhere on the resonator. Smooth metal domed resonators allow the sound to reflect and bounce off properly with speed and clarity. Check out Selmer metal domed resonators. Conclusion, the mk 6 is expensive to make if you use these correct materials, however, in the 80's and 90's, taking inflation into account, the mk6 as a standard was taken for granted and one could be picked up for 3, 000 quid, today they go for 10, 000, like many other, supposedly pro horns, the difference being, if you get a good mk6 well cared for and set up right, it will last and play and sound better. The same cannot be said for many other brands. Given how much horns are these days, it would be hard to really make another mk 6. In terms of Selmer saying, all their gear wore out and everyone died, who used that gear, do they not keep records? Do they not follow schematics and a lineage and document the process? Of course they do. Like anything else, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[@DavidErato]

Why are Selmer saxes so expensive would be a great video.

[@stangetz534]

For me I feel like the sound of the syos mouthpieces are really unpleasing to the ear. Maybe its just because I cant stand the colors that it affects my perception of what they sound like. To my ear they sound dead - they do have flexibility characteristics tha I can hear in Daves playing but they lack that ring you hear on classic records. I’ve heard Chad L play them and I think he sounds way better on some older videos where he plays a traditional piece. Like I said maybe I’m thinking they look like a toy so they sound like a toy, too? Am I way off here? What do other people think about them? Wrt the new Selmers- still my fav nee horn.

[@goinxnginx]

I had the same impression. It does sound dead and lifeless.

[@stangetz534]

@@goinxnginx Yeah right? Not a comment about Dan's playing at all of course who is a stellar player and inspiration.

[@goinxnginx]

@@stangetz534 Exactly. If Dan sounds like that with that set up, I am sure I would be terrible using it. That is why I like Dan's comparisons...his vids are just to the point, honest, and fun.

[@1dotele]

yea I can't get into a MP that looks like candy especially on an expensive elegant horn

[@leobird8756]

I felt the same way. I don’t think you’re being tricked by the visuals, they do sound more lifeless than HR or metal, on average

[@JiveDadson]

Until four years ago, I had several tenors, a Mark VI and a Yamaha YTS-21 among them. I preferred the 21. I sold the VI, and shortly thereafter the 21 was stolen. I'm now playing a Vito (made from YTS-23 parts), and occasionally a late model King Zephyr.

[@brianbogle5050]

Most articles I've read say that they stopped making the Mark VI alto and tenor because the tools and forms wore out and the guys who design those tools were all gone when they realized they needed to design a new horn. The Mark VII was similarly voiced and had the same bore (I think) so it sounded the same, but there were differences that people did not like. I was lucky enough to have a 1957 Mark VI and later I got a 1961 that was a re-lacquer. It's a fantastic horn and I use it most of the time. I'm hesitant to leave the house with the older horn. I just use it for record dates. I have other horns like a 1937 Conn 10m and a 2007 P. Mauriat. The Mauriat is a great rock and funk horn and i use the Conn for traditional blues and jazz.

[@JiveDadson]

A few decades ago, Ralph Morgan told me that there were four versions of the Mark VI, and that Selmer no longer had the tooling for any of them. So they could no more reproduce the Mark VI than anyone else could.

[@benhostetler268]

For the USA Selmer Paris instruments cost a ridiculous amount solely because of their US distributer Conn-Selmer in Elkhart Indiana. While in Europe they sell directly to the store then to the musician. It’s actually heaped for me to fly to London and purchase a brand new Selmer Paris Saxophone than drive 20 minutes and purchase one from my local shop.

[@bobblues1158]

Love your enthusiasm Dan. Thank you!

[@easysax1]

My Mark VII Tenor sounds just like my MarkVI.

[@stangetz534]

David Liebman said Selmers are like French Perfume and Keilworths are like a panzer tank.

[@PhilippePriam]

Same amazing craftsmanship with Mauriat Taiwanese Saxes. All hand made too but treated with contempt because they aren't European or French but Asian! This is the world we unfortunately live in nowadays.

[@riseabove5105]

P Mauriat great sound more then selmer but build quality is not there yet

[@marklang7486]

One thing that Selmer do better than anyone else is mystique (not the Marvel character!) They have a name and work that 'we are the premium brand' thing like an absolute boss. Yanagisawa and Custom Yamahas are also meticulously hand built/hand hammered etc and I doubt that Selmers production costs are significantly higher. There is an element of paying for the name with Selmer but people are, and probably always will be, willing to do that. All power to Selmer for that.

[@DynamixWarePro]

Do you know why Henri Selmer Paris called their series of saxophones the Mk VI? They had made more than 6 models prior to making the MK VI including the Model 22, 26, 28, Cigar Cutter, Radio Improved, Balanced Action and Super Action and have always wondered about the name and where it came from. When you said why isn't the MK VI made today? Didn't you not say in a vlog that of they made it today it would be different models because of the differences over the 20 years production? Also, I have read comments and some think that in the future, 10, 20, 30 years or more, the Reference 54 could become like the MK VI where players look to those in a similar way that they do to the MK VI now.

[@jonviol]

Well my 67 Mk 6 Tenor plays almost the same as my 1991 Series 11 80 . Except the 80 plays in tune at 441. Peace x

[@vladimirlopez7840]

I’ll tell you what it is about the MK VI it’s more to do about romance than quality. It’s no secret that you will play 20 bad MK VI’s before finding a good one. I personally feel that saxophones made in Japan exceed anything Selmer has ever made in terms of quality. As far as old horns I like the Conn sound better than Selmer. Modern horns I’m a yanigasawa fan and Yamaha pro horns are awesome as well.

[@davidkiffer2453]

I like this video, but I am puzzled. That neck looks like an SBA neck. I have never seen a Mark VI with and SBA type neck, even the 1954 model.Is it a transitional Mark VI?

[@DanForshaw]

Hi David, welcome to my channel. That neck is a KB Sax custom neck, I did a review here kzbin.info/www/bejne/aomchZdsi7xljrc

[@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton]

Selmer threw out the dies. Selmer tried to copy the Mark VI with the Reference 54 and failed (although it's a good horn in and of itself). Why don't they make Naked Ladies anymore? Because they can't, which, in this day and age of tech, is surprising.

[@sharynhughes1061]

Hey you did really well! Thankyou.

[@MrNice-jf7ee]

Perfect vídeo, thank you!

[@alvaropinto5712]

Hi Dan, I really appreciate your videos, love it! Would be possible to make a video about the Buffet Crampon Super Dynaction saxophones? That would be great! Cheers!

[@UListenHere]

Thank much for the blog and video. I have 2 Mark VI . a 59,xxx and a 137,xxx I think the 59,xxx is a little dryer and darker in sound but louder than the 137,xx, maybe a little more centered, but the 137,xxx is easier to play and the tone is more mellow and maybe spread. The 137,xxx weights more than the 59,xxx I usualy prefer the 137,xxx , i buyed the 59,xxx later, after i am familar with the 137,xxx

[@johannus777]

I’d rather all of them be silver plated than lacquer

[@aidan4473]

Dan, I bought a syos Michael Wilbur mouthpiece and I get the same sound with a Yamaha 5C which has the standard student high note sound which sounds a bit flute or clarinet like. I play on an old Jupiter 500 series circa. 1990s. Can you give me any tips to get a good sound like on your saxophone

[@saxofonistacr]

The bad news is, no mouthpiece will make you sound like somebody else. Good news you can get 95% or more of the sound you want with your yamaha 5C. It really isn´t about the mouthpiece, study a good few years on a standart mouthpiece like a Vandoren , Otto link etc, study ovetones and keep playing, sound develops with time.If you record yourself playing with 10 different mouthpieces you will not note significant differences. And even with a mouthpiece that you can tell there is a difffeence yhou will be sounding like before in a few days. Your sound comes from you.

[@aidan4473]

Saxo Fonista thank you for the advice. I have recently switched from vandoren to d’addario select jazz reeds and my sound has just improved so much. It’s now a very bright sound close to Daro Behroozi’s sound but I would never have a sound as good as his.

[@saxofonistacr]

@@aidan4473 yes, different reed brands and even different reed hardness has a lot to do with the sound.I played for many years with rico royals, and after that vandoren green, like a year ago, I moved to Riggoti Gold. those come in lot more sizes and are very consistent. They have 3 different hardness for what odder manufacturers have one. So they have 2 soft 2 medium and 2 hard, after that 2.5 soft 2.5 medium, 2.5 hard and so on. 8 or 9 out of a 10 box work very well for me whitout having to work with them, and they last longer to me, I recommended this reeds to my teacher, a pro playing for more than 30 years, and he loved them too. I found that I like some reed brands better in different mouthpieces. But don't get lost with this, it is really easy to get lost into this things there are way to many mouthpieces and reeds. Find a decent mouthpiece, and a reed that goes well with it. for you. Changing mouthpieces seems lke it is a big change the first days or so, and yes they all have something different. But listen to a real pro, testing different mouthpieces, and you will notice the difference isn't substantial, with all of them they can sound great. listen to them complaining about having a bad reed and still sounding great. You don't need an expensive sax, you don't need an expensive mouthpiece. You just need them to work properly, keep doing a few minutes of harmonics every day, your sound will change for good soon,

[@TedMaciag]

Speaking of Smooth Jazz.....a lot of those players are playing Yamaha, Cannonball, Lupifaro, Tenor Madness, Eastman, and others. Not to mention all the Taiwanese horns. Things change. We all need to get over what Selmer is going to do next. Icjust mix down some tracks from an outside gig that occured in a thinderstorm and brutally hot. Surviving this event was everything. My Chateau and DV mpc were amazingly intune. No MK6 would play well in those circumstances without a lot of effort. I didn't give it a thought. I didn't have to retrack a note. So why note some smooth jazz? Have a great day.

[@DynamixWarePro]

There is a video Henri Selmer Paris made and posted on their KZbin channel in 2013 called "Henri SELMER Paris from 1885 to tomorrow... 130 years of music history & more..." /watch?v=H6GLVCrHNaE which I'd recommend if you haven't seen it, I found it quite interesting insight into the history of Selmer.

[@oleflogger6828]

I have a Mark VI Tenor Sax, #84xxx, and love it. I've had it overhauled 3 times in the 55 years since I bought it in 1964, used, at Sam Ash Music in Hempstead, NY, USA. It was re-lacquered in 1981. I had it appraised in 2011. The Appraiser (Lee Kramka, Prop. SaxWorx, SF CA USA) played it for nearly an hour. At one point, he stopped, looked it over and told me, "Do not sell this horn." 1/2 hour later, after playing all sorts of music styles (beautifully, too!), he repeated, with emphasis, "Do NOT sell this horn!" So, I've played other guys' Selmer tenors: Series II, Series III, and Reference 54, even a Reference 36. They don't sound as good as my old horn. They all have better intonation and project much more than mine. But, mine has better sound. I'm convinced that the difference is in the alloy, period. I didn't learn anything useful from your video. You just repeated the denials I've heard from other so-called "experts". I don't think that any of you is at all objective.

[@spiketaterman5181]

where can I get a good overhaul? I live in Boise.

[@dynoroad]

You’re convinced of something that’s been disproven by science… I wonder who is actually in denial?

[@Ravenwings1234]

Why don't they make the MK 6 any more? Well for one thing , they would still be out of reach for Joe Average, and I completely understand why so many player dream of owning one, I did myself,but have never been able to afford one. I have however been able to try and own several less expensive horns which have done a perfectly good job of producing the sound and variance of tone I like, I also think there are horns out there that are selling at a lower price point which would give the Mk 6 a run for its money, one being Trevor James custom

[@vladimirlopez7840]

Ian Page absolutely there are lower priced horns that give a MK vi are run for the money. I think there are quite a few horns out there that are better. It’s funny because when you ask about other horns the stuff people say is bad about them they accept just fine if it’s a mk vi. They accept intonation problems and frequent adjustment issue’s etc because it’s a MK vi. There are more than a few modern horns better than the MK vi in quality and sound.

[@mprenn1547]

a new Trevor James seems hard to get in the US. I think they are the closest thing tone-wise to a Mark VI (which I own).

[@edepillim]

I love properly lacquered saxes. Hate this trend to have your sax looking as if it came out of Steptoes Yard.So ugly. As the Selmer man said the saxes sound depends on the neck, reed, mouthpiece combination. I had my cigar cutter re lacquered and all the keys nickel plated. That was 50 years ago and it plays, and looks, wonderful.

[@gigglepantsiii826]

I hope everyone had fun and stayed safe during your trip. Heat related stress and illness should not be taken lightly. Thanks for covering this interesting topic

[@alotoaltosaxes]

Saxes unlike automobiles have absolutely no electronics or emission controls. I imagine the MARK VI went out of production under financial pressure.

[@benjaminmarks8765]

I love my king super 20 more than my VI tbh

[@richardcowley7346]

Selmer dont make the Mk6 anymore cos the early ones were good and the later ones were messed with, changed so much they became not so good but lots of repair and alteration made some of them better and often at a high cost my dads early number mk6 plays really well but i would rather have my own super80 series 1 anyday mind you, i bought a CAT D8H with a 68A powershift transmission and it played excellently push loading CAT 657G motorscrapers

[@lyntedrockley7295]

I can understand why they wanted to update production methods. I can understand why certain design details would be influenced by production methods. I can understand that some of the tooling was becoming worn and unusable after such a long run of MkVIs. I can underatnd that maufacturing not one but a family of saxes is a complex logistacal and economic operation. But what I don't understand is Selmer's marketing and branding 'strategy'. I don't know about their sound concept, but I suspect they have little concept of Brand, beyond their reputation. Calling a range of saxes 'Bundy'!! I don't care if it was some bloke high up in the US operation, its a disasterous name, associated with a hapless father in a US sitcom! And even if it wasn't its still a stupid sounding name. And they don't always use the blue S on the octave key. How much does that cost to do? And since this video came out they have launched The Supreme! Now they're naming the saxes after a chicken dish. I can't keep track of all the various saxes since the MkVI, Super Action this, series whatever that. Hopeless! They never understood the power of the MkVI brand and how cool that looked compared to any other sax at the time and since. I get that Selmer wanted to make something even better than the MkVI. Thats why they called it a MkVII. But thats where their thinking stopped. Anyone could have told them the ergonomics were hopeless. If they were so focussed on classical sax why did Johnny Griffin (an obviously atypical specimen of a human being, short, long arms big hands) play such an influencial part in its design? At least thats the rumour. Can you verify that?

[@BeachBoi1000]

Reason they don’t make the Mark 6 anymore is because it is made in 1950s…. 😅

[@mariesauvageaulkl4751]

what is the serial number of your horn? because the left hand pinky table looks a lot like the Mark VII one.

[@DanForshaw]

67XXX left the factory on the 19th Dec 1955 kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHXWc5iae7uDopY

[@davidesferrazzasax6076]

SBA ???