Daniel Mendoza's fighting stance - An analysis

There are three basic stances in Classical pugilism that all have different pros and cons. In this video we look at that of the great Daniel Mendoza who reigned as Champion of all England for many years despite giving up a huge advantage in weight and reach.
It is also my first blue-screen video so I'd appreciate any feedback

[@Redfrog1011]

“Not gonna talk about feet” So basically just leave out one of the most fundamental parts of any stance

[@eddefy22]

Wow, 1800’s boxing champ Daniel Mendoza, and old school analysis? Amazing need more

[@darkwolfe]

Mendoza's style kinda reminds me of Tyson's. Although Tyson was a heavyweight, most of the people he fought were a lot bigger. He had a fairly square stance and covered up his face with his gloves and bobbed and weaved in order to get close to his taller opponents to deliver his uppercuts and hooks.

[@Seekingtruth-mx3ur]

good point.Some even point out that it reminds them of Nick Diaz style too.

[@XMartinv90x]

@@Seekingtruth-mx3ur Yes

[@danielteixeira5139]

I think 5'7 73kg was not small by thoes days standards . I think he was prety average

[@dong9514]

@@danielteixeira5139 One of my friends told me average height was 5 foot nine, in modern times. I have never checked it but if you include the whole world, it sounds about right. And people were smaller in the past, like in the middle ages, suits of armor were shorter than people in modern times.

[@HAVOCJKD]

@@danielteixeira5139 (apologies for the late reply, just saw this vid) You are correct, but like Tyson the size is relative to who he is facing: Tyson is a massive human being by average standards, but was small by heavyweight standards

[@codiserville593]

Yeah I'm stereo typing here, but upon the moment of hearing your voice, I knew that you were exactly the right person to explain this to us

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I'll take that...

[@zerothehero123]

I'm so glad I've found your channel! I train in Jeet Kune Do and boxing for self defense and sport and I find the history of pugilism very interesting and useful for both. Subscribed and I hope to learn more of this awesome art!

[@jimmypellas5937]

Thank you for your excellent presentations. They are informative, engaging and inspiring. Its like I'm having a whisky and a chat with you in my living room. Keep it up!

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Thank you!

[@jgrepshire]

Nice work with the background image, makes it much easier to understand what Mendoza was doing.

[@silafuyang8675]

Same stance as classic Xingyi quan. Most of what you said is also valid in Xingyi quan. I like your videos very much by the way and they are very informative though I am practicing traditional Chinese martial arts, which are very different systems.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Thanks, that's very interesting. I love seeing the same things in completely different systems.

[@kwanarchive]

And in southern praying mantis. It has no relation to northern praying mantis, and it's pretty much the same stances and infighting.

[@DaraEhteshamzadeh]

A lot of Israeli Krav Maga, also has similar principles in its stance and movement, though the exact details vary slightly. Being able to hollow out or lean back quickly is important, as is putting your shoulders up to soak blows to the jaw. The big differences I see in the stance I practice and the stance in Mendoza's engraving is his chin isn't tucked in, his back foot isn't raised for springing, and in Krav Maga one hand is generally a bit farther forward.

[@silafuyang8675]

***** I am training Xingyi quan for 10 years already, I have also studied Yue jia quan and qiang (spear), which is one of the styles Xingyi originates from. In Yuejia spear movements are not in sanqi bu, bu in mabu, weight is equally distributed to both legs, full side position. Actually I prefer training spear like that, cause it give a very solid base, which you will need especially if the spear is longer and heavier. When it comes to fist fighting, however, Sanqi bu (30/70) weight distribution, half-side position is the best one. I don't see much difference. I don not know which style of Xingyi you are talking about, you surely are right, but stance changes depending on intentions.

[@silafuyang8675]

***** The thin, light and flexible qiang used in modern wushu is very different from the military spears and pikes. There are hundreds of spear types in China, some of them longer and heavier from the standard spear type in HEMA. I have seen some HEMA clubs who are trying to use a spear but in a way which I really do not approve, but I am not a specialist there. Their sword technique is very good and I am studying it willingly, but for the spear... still not right to the point.

[@andrewkgsmith]

Very interesting! Would be great to see you do a video similar to this for all the great fighters of days gone by.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I'll certainly be doing a couple more. It's hard to be sure I have enough information for many more of the real old timers. There's an awful lot to look at as well though.

[@jonathaningram6966]

I started to comment on the similarities to the Peek-a-boo style, but somebody had already beat me to it. That similarity is because both styles are meant for shorter men to close distance against taller men. Let me instead comment on the differences. Mendoza held his hand high and outfront. If you read his book, you will find that is because he likes the 'chopper', a short chopping punch designed to cut his opponent with bare knuckles. He probably didn't have the knockout power of a Tyson, so he adopted a different strategy to end the fight, disabling his opponent.;

[@brockst9190]

amazing video. I love this era of fighting. great channel. so much great information.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Thank you!

[@chitownmo]

This stance could be a precursor to the Peek A Boo stance taught by Cus D'Amato and his training disciples and used by Mike Tyson, Floyd Patterson and Jose Torres. There are similarities(squared stance. Focus on countering. Used by shorter fighters to get inside). Not exact but could be the original stance which developed over time.

[@mortomusic8072]

chitownmo yes but less weight on the lead and less extension on the arma

[@PhillyPugilist]

Good observation

[@MadOrkest]

I would really like to see more videos like this about different stances and reasons for them. Good stuff.

[@VictorDSMan]

Very interesting. It would be good to see a live demonstration of how a small person can use this stance to get close to a bigger opponent and defeat him.

[@climb8000]

Mendoza was my great, great, great, great, great grandfather. Our family history goes back to 1575 in Spain and Portugal.

[@simmogj]

I've got to Livorno in Italy as well. There are many direct descendants in Australia.

[@JoelYaron]

mine too!

[@Kalydosos]

This bloke reminds allot of my old Physics teacher from the days when you went to university for being clever not rich!

[@ilitardo160]

Kalydosos those days don’t exist

[@thetriumphofthethrill2457]

Thanks for sharing, I've always wanted to know how the early bare-knuckle fighters fought and this has been informative.

[@gaserdesolations4234]

Great great video , thank you so much

[@VTSifuSteve]

Interesting indeed. A lot of historical pugilism seems to resemble 19th Century Southern "Short-bridge" Chinese Boxing methods. Mendoza's stance and hands recall some of the Hakka arts like Southern Mantis and Pak Mei. Other early fighters took a stance not unlike Wing Chun fighters from Fo'shan in the same period. Again we have individuals of small stature specializing in infighting. Is this resemblance just coincidental, or a case of convergent evolution resulting from the nature of bare-knuckle bouts? Or perhaps there was also some exchange/borrowing going on from contact between British sailors and Chinese boxers in the ports of Southern China?

[@PhillyPugilist]

Great video 👍🏾 Do you have any more videos like this breaking down classic stances?

[@ShaunCKennedyAuthor]

I would love to see more analysis of fighting stances. We have an entirely different take on stances in Praying Mantis and Long Fist. I use the Mantis Eight Stances (which they actually call the Eight Steps in Chinese) and they had 10 (or some sifus I've met had 12.) It's always interesting to me to see how stances are used in other systems.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I should be doing at least two more. Fewterell kindly wrote quite long descriptions of the of the most classic stances at the time.

[@GelatinousShark]

I do Eight Step Praying Mantis in Taiwan, the way I've been taught is that the eight stances and the eight steps are different things.

[@ShaunCKennedyAuthor]

I'm sure there is more than one take on all of it. The way I learned it, there are eight stances, and eight ways to "move" in each. (Four of the ways to move are ways to stay in place, one of them in each stance is actually holding still.) There may be other takes, and I'm sure different sifus have gone different directions with whatever the original way was.

[@JFHomehr]

Really good video, very informative, I love it. Hope you'll do more of them soon ^^ Maybe seeing you from head to toe could be better for this kind of analysis. You should try it to see. ^^

[@EnglishMartialArts]

You are completely right, but I am limited to a degree by my home studio (a shed with a blue backdrop)

[@JamesWilliams-pn1do]

Peter seller's , mother's maiden name was mendoza. 1995,arena documentary about Peter sellers said they were related.small world.

[@simmogj]

The Peter seller's link was from Daniel Mendoza's brother. Daniel Mendoza has many direct descendants in Australia. His daughter Matilda migrated to Australia in the mid 19th century. One of his descendants, Michael Mendoza Simmons, established the sporting goods store Mick Simmons in the late 19th century. At one stage, the store was said to be the largest sporting goods store in the world.

[@Infernovogel]

Great explanation, thanks!

[@gorutz]

Great info in a short time, keep it up!

[@reyg7028]

If you look closely at the stance . It’s Obviously the precursor to Preekaboo Style . Damato , Patterson , Tyson .and Frankie Edgar ( UFC)

[@GOLIATHDarce]

Dude Bad ass video, thanks

[@-MacCloud-]

Im new to pugilism . Im both surprised and very impressed . This martial art is hugely relevant . Im getting the impression that this would serve me better than boxing or even many eastern arts in a real life fight .

[@zerothehero123]

Very true, seeing as pugilism was basically the first form of "mma" so true unlimited unarmed combat with a limited set of honor "rules".

[@-MacCloud-]

zerothehero123 Early pugilism for sure . Every technique is direct and well thought out . No fancy dancy shit . Just straight to the point .

[@nomaschalupas2453]

Conor MacCloud you do realise this is basically the same as the modern peekaboo stance in boxing.

[@frenikfri]

Could you do more of these videos on some of the other stances/guards in pugilism?

[@JimiLoko0822]

This stance is very similar to the Wing Chun stance, and also the simultanious blocking and striking.... A full lenght movie should be made about Daniel Mendoza, the two books he wrote should have enough informactión for a full lenght script....,

[@killer11843]

Great video keep em up

[@JimGiant]

I love Mendoza's work but given my proportions I'm best off capitalizing on my reach. His counters can be modified to work from a more angled stance though.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I'm not a small man either, but I am happier at grappling range than at striking range so what Mendoza does suits me just fine.

[@JimGiant]

EnglishMartialArts Would you still fight like that against multiple opponents (if escape wasn't an option)?

[@italianduded1161]

hello I am from italy I got a question did boxing matches started in italy too in the 18th century? I mean like challenges and that stuff because I heard that "the noble art" not just the sport, but the challenge, was spread really fast in all europe, we always had challenges and duels with knifes in those times but I heard that we had also bare knuckle duels sorry for my bad english and thanks for listening

[@randallpleasant3924]

Very nice.

[@Ivanofkoshinkaisokanryu]

Thanks for the video and I hope you can keep it up if thar is what you want

[@richardotene9858]

As a descendant of Daniel Mendoza I personally would like to thank you for making this. He also invented the uppercut and the jab if I'm not mistaken.

[@davidbothwell9669]

highly doubt he invented the jab😂cavemen would have jabbed and uppercutted each other

[@MjahedTV]

As far as I know Joe Gans "The old Master" invented it

[@Esspyyy]

No one "invented" the jab omg

[@joseestrada6975]

Rangi Puha You are not his descendant

[@mortomusic8072]

Rangi Puha porra shut you mouth. Come do jiujitsu

[@paulsheppard5837]

Nice video very informative The very traditional Philippino boxing would have influenced the movement of the other arts but the square on stance is awkward for the Philippino boxing system as it likes a long lead from the opponent But every art learns from from what they experience

[@z.s.n.]

Move job you did it perfect. I wouldn't even begin to know how to put that image behind you. And I CAN see his feet

[@tartausrat]

Another clear look at a stance. Can I ask if you still train with a sword? I would love to come and train with you but as I gave up owning a car it is an hour by train followed by half an hour by bus, costing the best part of twenty quid. Don't want to make that kind of an effort to find you have given up on the sword. Plus that dodge sales technique made me really hesitate... so glad your moving away from that.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

Hi Stephen, I do indeed still train with a sword. My Monday night class is mainly English backsword. You'd be more than welcome along. Also have you seen the current "sales" page? Much more honest and up front I'd say. I'm certainly a lot more comfortable with it.

[@tartausrat]

EnglishMartialArts Yes that is much better and even a free section or as it reads *FREE*. I did notice.

[@basilbrigugliojr8678]

Mendoza was one of the first truly scientific fighters.

[@mda1218]

have seen fighters in this stance get into taller opponent’s midsection & set him up for uppercut : bend his man over , then make him stare at the ceiling before he drops

[@MjahedTV]

great channel! good video!

[@neonknight5857]

Does this stance employ more static blocking or parrying?

[@Seekingtruth-mx3ur]

Nice video.

on the Picture he seems to stick his neck foreward, not in so as to expose his jaw for a good smacking.

[@paullytle246]

Did he ever mention elbows

[@cahallo5964]

It looks like a knife/dagger fight stance too

[@gamepiggy960]

Sounds like he was the Randy coultier of old boxing

[@johngault7329]

what is your opinion of tom cruise in FAR AND AWAY?...

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I've been trying to get the fight in the dance hall to do a breakdown for a while. I can't find a version with the whole thing. They always cut off a little early. From what I remember it isn't actually bad.

[@kubotan26]

Hi, What was Mendoza manual called? thanks

[@elliotvernon7971]

kubotan26 The Art of Boxing published in 1792 - you can download it here - books.google.co.uk/books?id=jxldAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

[@mgtowproperties]

It’s similar a wing Chung Stance

[@clemguitar]

Reminds me of Wing Chun

[@TaoistSwordsman]

Clem Dallaway Right? That's what I thought when I saw Sullivan's stance.

[@clemguitar]

Pugglen I've seriously got to look into this more, I've recently found out that I have a local legend, Tom Paddock from Redditch, I'd love to find out more about him 😁

[@clemguitar]

The Wing Chun "ideas" seem so similar

[@TaoistSwordsman]

Clem Dallaway Right? Centerline punching, similar stances, parying similarly, even some "chi sao". Jack Dempseys book is a great inside source to old school boxing too, even if he wasn't bare knuckle :]

[@clemguitar]

Pugglen indeed, very similar and very interesting, I'm looking forward into looking and studying more. I'm new to Wing Chun but after seeing this video, I was just gobsmacked how similar his style is to Wing Chun! I just wait to learn more

[@breatharian2009]

I'm his descendant!

[@caseymarsh3905]

I know 18 stances

[@rrt1592]

Hey, it's Daniel Bryan.

[@WisdomTooth1987]

i think a lot of these guys would get smashed by a journeyman boxer today.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

That would very much depend on the ruleset and context. Take away timed rounds, gloves and allow grappling and non standard striking and I very much doubt a modern boxer would fare that well.

[@WisdomTooth1987]

@@EnglishMartialArts they would, mma fighters utilize modern boxing techniques for a reason, its more effective for combinations, and body punches have advance far more. Holding your hands up mid way with palms facing outward just to close the distance, you'll have a lot of guys getting caught in the chin rushing in. Even with very little rules, most boxers back then didn't utilize submissions very well. a lot of these fights were stand up.

[@EnglishMartialArts]

@@WisdomTooth1987 and yet the foundation skill for the vast majority of successful MMA fighters is wrestling, not boxing. And using MMA as a justification for modern boxing being better isn't the greatest logic. MMA isn’t built on boxing any more than it is built on K1, or Muay Thai. I thoroughly recommend an old article by Jack Slack on Nick Diaz fighting like Dan Mendoza did.

[@WisdomTooth1987]

@@EnglishMartialArts but muay thai and k1 kickboxers utilize modern boxing. Im not debating wrestling as being a requirement, i just dont think these guys back then were doing mma grappling. I'm talking about bare knuckle boxing with knockdowns. even with allowed long term clinching, eventually they'll get caught by an overhand or a left hook. they'd be clueless with dealing with jabs.

[@TheSealOfTheRose]

Anyone who says Jews can't fight should remember Mendoza.

[@robertnewell4054]

@TheSealOfTheRose ..... I’m thinking the creation of the modern State of Israel dispelled that fallacy years ago

[@pakk-]

Daniel bryan?.....daniel ? Is u daniel ?

[@R.Williamss]

there no such thing as a European martial arts

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I beg to differ. If you actually look at the evidence you'll be surprised.

[@R.Williamss]

EnglishMartialArts let me not be stubborn and naive. But I never heard of any! Do tell

[@EnglishMartialArts]

+Raheem Williams The HEMAC fact sheets are a good place to start. Just because a person hasn't heard of something does not mean it does not exist...

[@R.Williamss]

Indeed

[@EskrimaTiger]

The term 'martial arts" is itself a European creation. It derives from the Latin "martialis artiste" coined by Geoffrey Chaucer to describe the combat training techniques of European knights. Literally it translates as 'the arts of Mars" and since Mars was the Roman god of war, it means "the arts of war". Now let me give you a few European combat arts to check out. Glimae (Norse wrestling/grappling), Cornu-Breton ( a popular form of wrestling found in Cormwall, England ), Pancratia ( ancient Greek MMA style combining hand strikes, kicks and grappling), Knutting ( a Scottish fighting style that specialized in head-butting ), Chausse ( French street fighting style specializing in kicks, this evolved into savate). These are just a few, there are numerous wrestling and grappling arts that are native to nearly every part of Europe, not to mention the various weapon techniques. Rapier fencing, use of the longsword, halberd and longaxe techniques are all considered martial arts. Even longbow archery is a martial art. Remember, every culture on the planet has developed its own form of combat art. The martial arts are not exclusive to East Asia. While your at it, look into African and Middle Eastern fighting arts, you will be amazed at how many there are and how versatile some of them are. Peace.

[@fredazcarate4818]

Another oldie but goodie my lad. I enjoyed the lecture regarding Mendoza's techniques and stance. Brilliant! God bless lad and continue on producing more brilliant videos.

[@lewsaboy1645]

My mother is a descendant of Mendoza. Makes sense now with a lot of things 😂

[@tierraprometida8866]

I suggest you to visit the sephardic synagogue in the City

[@simmogj]

There are many direct descendants in Australia. The Mendoza Simmons family migrated to Australia in the mid 19th century. The family started the historic Australian Mick Simmons sporting goods stores.

[@DreynHarry]

I love your pugilism videos Oz, but leaning backwards never should never be the way to go. You can be overrun much to easy if you do so. If you are leaning backwards you should at least take one foot with the body behind to have secure and stable stance. hope fully til soon buddy cheers harry (and yes, I know, this video is 3 years old :) )

[@TFSMikeRath]

As a fan of Mark Hatmaker's stuff, this is great stuff! I just found your channel and I'm liking the pugilism stuff, love to see more.

[@elviscalzone914]

+Mike Reis Mark Hatmaker is legit

[@aytcheff]

EnglishMartialArts: Where can I find Daniel Mendoza's or other Pugilist's Treatises for Pugilism? Must I buy them on Paper? Or can I find Electronic versions like Wiktenauer for example?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

There are one or two things available online. Google books is always worth searching, as is archive.org also sirwilliamhope.org has a few treatises online.

[@The_Joker_]

Subbed👍👌 I love your videos and knowledge ☘️🇮🇪

[@HippyEyes]

Would you ever consider doing an analysis of pugilism's evolution? I'd love to see a compare/contrast on how the style(s) have progressed. I'm always wondering: "How did we get here from there? What can we still take away from what came before?"

[@HippyEyes]

Or I could just go through the plethora of resources you have linked...

[@cahallo5964]

How did it go?, I feel like even if you read literally everything about pugilism you'll still feel like you learnt very little

[@wynnpiercewheldon2971]

I would very much like to use some of this superb demonstration in a book about Mendoza. If willing to allow, please contact me in the first instance on twitter @Wynn_Wheldon Or find me on Facebook. Thank you.

[@indefenceofthetraditionalma]

So that’s where the diaz brothers got their stance from...

[@vercingetorixwulf9298]

Peek a Boo sounds so cute. Unless Tyson is coming at you ...... I don't know why I mention. Thanks for this video .....

[@TW4dfd]

you forgot it forces your opponent net to hook allowing you punch and get in, same in wing chun

[@GOLIATHDarce]

Excellent , keep up the Good work.

[@truthhitman7473]

What about Bill Richmond ?

[@MaxwellHavins]

Didn't this sort of stance change after the English encountered the Filipinos in the Philippines? Due to their triangle footwork or something of that sort?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

I've never come across that suggestion before, but I wouldn't rule it out. Do you have a source?

[@MaxwellHavins]

I will have to dig around for textual source. I only heard of it through my former Kali teacher and some times hear it mentioned from Dan Inosanto. I will dig up a historical source thou before setting it into stone.

[@MaxwellHavins]

Sorry i think i over simplified that suggestion and from what i read so far that it is the U.S during the Filipino - American war that exposed western boxing to those isles.(Not the English as far as i know.) Also seems that it wasn't much the stance that they influenced but foot work and a bit of a guard change. ( i say that loosely not completely confident about that.) www.warriorseskrima.com/articles/magazines-articles/western-boxing-vs-filipino-boxing/ www.bakitwhy.com/articles/influence-filipino-martial-arts-western-boxing sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3458707

[@UrbanSurvivalcraft]

EnglishMartialArts check this out: ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_0701.htm

[@williebourke3571]

Did irish boxer dan donnelly beat Tom cribb , and we're the irish boxers of that time any good

[@ciphbudd7102]

Looks like desert on the lead hook menu

[@stephendelacruzone]

Very well explained! ✨👍

[@richardgomez1151]

You need to update this

[@Ottuln]

Fantastic video. More of this would be wonderful! I would be very interested in seeing footage of sparring or competition using pugilism. Is there any chance that will be posted, or somewhere else I could find it?

[@benjohsmi1]

This was an excellent video. I did have a question though. In the picture that you showed Mendoza's chin seems to be relatively up rather than tucked down. Is this counter to his description or is there another factor here that you could explain?

[@EnglishMartialArts]

He did indeed have his chin up, I suspect that was an artifact of the portrait. There is little point in painting a picture of the great Daniel Mendoza if you can't see him. You will also notice he had a fairly fine head of hair, he tended to shave it for fights, at least until he fought Jackson when he hadn't and it proved part of his downfall.

[@MrAlepedroza]

Man, I want to suggest an idea for what could be a very interesting video: Would this bareknuckle boxing be effective against modern boxing technique? I'm sure many people would want so want to watch it.

[@unchangable]

modern day boxing boxing styles have only progressed from this era.. a lot to learn in 100 years..

[@MrNaim-ee7dw]

great video sir.

[@ragnarlothbrok5222]

Reminds me of a nick diaz mendoza my favourite fighter of history of ours

[@ieuanhunt552]

Dude you need more subscribers.