DANTE vs. KRATOS (Devil May Cry vs. God Of War )

[@j.peanut]

Meanwhile, mimir and vergil having the most important philosophy dialogue in the universe

[@Diaz161]

Foolish

[@TrembleB4Me]

Foolishness,peanut...foolishness

[@animeminians7451]

Lmao

[@GnA_000]

Virgil: "It's all about... power... more... power!!" Mimir: "power is important brother. But it's about more than that" Virgil: "Power... is the only absolute. more... power!!" Mimir: "I knew a man obsessed with power once" Virgil: "more... power" Mimir: "Amen to that brother... Amen to that" Virgil: "Power..."

[@PEACEMAKERS_OFFICIAL]

True

[@didyouactuallyexpectaname7438]

Kratos tackling Dante to the ground like an MMA fighter seems accurate for him. I wouldn’t have been surprised if he power bombed him.

[@galakticboss]

Considering Kratos was a proud spartan warrior he would 100% know at least some Pankration, so him wrestling a more nimble oponent would be very fitting

[@disdatfoomekhi]

sin devil trigger

[@fort1nit3_balls]

In god of war ghost of sparta you can tackle your enemies and beat the shit out of them with your bare hands

[@mavvynne444]

​@@galakticbossKratos definitely knows Pankration.

[@arbazs501]

Bro most hilarious part is Dante wasn't able to dodge that tackle The dude is fast af to hold a point blank riffle bullet with his teeth they didn't utilizes Dante completely or hadn't had enough research

[@tatersalad76]

Dante going for style points and Kratos going for brutal efficiency. God I love it when fans animate

[@Omega-jg4oq]

Now that you’ve mentioned it.. Dante’s Style Ranking must be yelling SMOKING SEXY STYLE while Kratos is gaining a lot of hit points and a lot of red orbs 😂

[@BaustisaRuiz]

Kratos gow 2 would destroy Dante easily

[@adamdimitri2562]

@@BaustisaRuiz yeah, Pre-DMC3 Dante

[@amplifier8435]

​@@adamdimitri2562 But this is a really important detail. None of the characters presented above fight at full strength. And it’s generally not clear from what time period they were torn out. Dante still has his old “Rebel” blade, and although his face seems to be an adult (although not his at all), and the cloak from the four, he is clearly younger than in the fourth part. At the same time, he does not use Devil Trigger, although he should already be able to. And he exhausted monstrously quickly for such a short battle. It's easier with Kratos. He seems to have been taken out of the events immediately before his own restart, because he already has an axe, but he does not yet know how to turn on rage. As a result, nothing is clear. Still, I would count on Dante in this fight, if it would be at least, fourth game Dante. In third part he was able to swing his blade fast enough, to be able cover several square meters of tower's rooftop from the massive rain, fighting with Vergil. And after that, he got Quicksilver style. Kratos can't beat his speed, so...

[@jacksparrow-os3iw]

@@amplifier8435 kratos has immeasurable speed

[@T_Dude]

I like how neither of them are going all out. Kratos isn’t using Spartan Rage or any of his other weapons, and Dante isn’t using Devil Trigger or Royal Guard.

[@OneTrueNecromancer]

Dantes really taking it easy hasn't stopped time or summoned the clones yet lol

[@Jknight416]

Nor has Dante even activated his Sin Devil Trigger

[@karshinp7896]

@@Jknight416I think this might be Dante before gaining SDT, since he has the rebellion instead of the devil sword Dante.

[@supergoat1507]

@@OneTrueNecromancerkratos can slow time too

[@OneTrueNecromancer]

@@supergoat1507 and what of the clones my good chum

[@pisky5067]

How does this animation not have millions of views? For real, it's very underrated. Also I think Kratos and Dante were just playing. Kratos didn't even reach for blades of chaos nor he used spartan rage, and dante didn't use devil trigger.

[@gamesbulshitery9395]

or DSD

[@duck6966]

​@@gamesbulshitery9395or his entire asernal of weapons and the regen is even weaker than his DMC3 self too

[@gamesbulshitery9395]

@@duck6966 well i mean if we want to power scale then we have to determine witch infinity is greater

[@marceldanton1774]

Dante don't even use Devil sword Dante or sin Devil triger this was Just warm UP for both

[@ricecake3544]

Cause it's only out of a few days?

[@silverjeyjey4054]

Why does Dante look like a middle age man cosplaying as Dante?

[@noneyalol1564]

🤣

[@mistermoneyman300]

Because dante is now arround his 40

[@danielendless]

Dante is in his late 40s and looks like a hobo in DmC5

[@Omega-jg4oq]

​@danielendless yeah but his face looks cursed if you get a closer

[@kibblenackle431]

@@mistermoneyman300actually I think he’s in his 50’s by dmc 5

[@jinxedyuri5756]

Kratos: Has Godly powers Dante: interesting argument. however, ROYALGUARD

[@furyberserk]

Dante: What's stronger, an unstoppable force or an unmovable object? Kratos: I do not know. What is superior, a skill that blocks everything or a skill that surpasses all blocks? Dante: Do you mean your spartan rage or your blade of Olympus? Kratos: Neither. These hands can grab.

[@carriero6705]

Kinda hard to say that dante can royalguard grabs, all moves that are "grabs" in dmc3/4/5 are kinda not grabs but when you get hit they became grabs...so its complicated, but would be funny as hell kratos yelling by using spartan rage and then dante just says: "nah, ROYALGUARD"( bro imagine dmc4 dante bro can be heard from miles away just spamming swordtrickgunswordswordgunroyaltrickguntrick)

[@tolontolon5538]

@@furyberserk either way dante eat gods for breakfast, but kratos has never fought a demon hunter

[@vxcodm4121]

There is one time I use Nero’s buster and try to grab Dante but he was in Royale Guard style and he give me Royale Release and I lost around 60 or 70 percent of my HP

[@blacky8987]

@@tolontolon5538 facts right now dante dante is multiversal lvl

[@sonofsueraf]

Two of my childhood characters, finally duking it out.

[@CrystalCollector-g4n]

It was said by game critics long ago that Dante would beat Kratos, most likely because of Dante's speed. Even if Kratos has the godly equipment and Hermes boots. Though both are technically immortal

[@WashiKabir]

​@CrystalCollector-g4n OK IF DANTE BEATS KRATOS THEN KRATOS WILL DESTROYE HELL AND DEATH

[@AdisBra]

I gotta love the fact that he ported some of the animations from God of War 2018. Some people may call it lazy work but i think it looks really good and fits well. Overall great work.

[@JustPunn]

Dante face seems reaaaaaally off but the animation work is great

[@Kratos_DCUO]

Take the animations that are already made. It's cheaper for stuff like this.

[@Somedude72]

@@Kratos_DCUOcan you do it ?

[@Kratos_DCUO]

@@Somedude72 I'm not saying I can. It's much cheaper for the 1s that are made

[@AdisBra]

@@Kratos_DCUO Exactly, and it looks good

[@bangunprasetyo3164]

Hand to hand combat Kratos :MMA style Dante: Bruce Lee style

[@Bigblackballs335]

Kratos SLUGGER and ye true Dante has a bit of Bruce Lee style to it

[@footmad9906]

You know Bruce lee created an mma right ?

[@theguywhoasked-b4y]

​@@footmad9906🤓🤓🤓

[@lucasabreu7741]

You can see Dante is taking this fight seriously as he keeps his mouth shut 😅

[@superstar-rp9ln]

Bec opponent is one and only kratos

[@elespectadorsinlimites154]

I don't give a shit who beats who, I just enjoy the animation😎

[@marleycannon238]

​@@elespectadorsinlimites154 same I prefer dante as a character but I can't complain when I can see the passion put in to make this plus he didn't use devil trigger and nor did kratos use sparta rage I think they just playing around odd that dante ain't smiling alot tho just goes to show kratos ain't no laughing matter 😂😂

[@BaustisaRuiz]

Kratos Is nerfed would destroy Dante easily

[@andreacataldi564]

Spoiler...Dante always win(i dont know why dante don't use royal guard in this edit(the creator probably is a kratos fan😂😊(dante is made broken) with devil trigger destroy ,but sin devil trigger rape kratos

[@Chasewickb97]

Kratos: *stumbles around after getting stabbed* Dante: “I’ve been stabbed and jabbed by a number of things!”

[@noneyalol1564]

😄

[@MrGrimm-eo5lc]

Kratos: wait a minute... There was that time i got impaled by a stone pillar thrown by Ares... Then that time when Zeus stabbed me... And the moment i Stabbed myself with the blade of olympus just to spite Athena...

[@livinglegend9709]

​@@MrGrimm-eo5lcyou know, you'd think he'd get used to being stabbed at this point

[@Uncle-q6n]

​@@MrGrimm-eo5lcAnd when bualdur stabed him with a sharp stone

[@grapearizona5477]

@@MrGrimm-eo5lcand if enemies count, there are a number of enemies that stab him with swords or claws that barely harm him

[@MilitaristTurkcu]

Bro I GOTTA hand it to him. He studied Kratos and did EXTREMELY WELL in portraying his ingame moves. Bravo!

[@spacegoji1954]

Same with Dante, only thing is Dante has a wider arsenal, although another comment pointed out they may have just been toying with each other which would make sense, anyway this was awesome I have to agree

[@rachedbenayed4127]

@@spacegoji1954I mean both have way more weapons but esch one of them is using only one here so it’s fair.

[@spacegoji1954]

@@rachedbenayed4127 yeah ig

[@spencethealien]

That ninja kick Kratos did in the beginning isnt something he has ever done. His fighting was always brutish. No idea what youre talking about there. But still a cool animation

[@javierojeda9926]

​@@spacegoji1954 no a estudiado nada a dante, dante a llegado al punto de poder ek el que puede manipular hasta el espacio tiempo, correr más rápidos que demonios que tardan un día en cruzar el inframundo, que es de tamaño universal, maneja un arsenal muy grande y posee transformaciones demoníacas y regeneración instantánea

[@D.v-O4u2c]

this makes me realize that dante has had the "boss fight" treatment in his respective series but kratos? only got to fight versions of himself that were nothing more than fodder. kratos DESERVES to be a boss just like how capcom made dante his own boss fight in DMC4-5

[@GREATESTDANTE]

Kratos is no match for DANTE. Not in any way. This is inaccurate asf

[@redreaper9622]

Well I mean Kinda sorta? When Ares jumps him with clones of himself, those clones are said to be stronger, faster, smarter, etc. clones of him with bloodthirst/no care for his family and are going all out. So Kratos canonically got jumped by better versions of himself and won. Similarly, Dante in his first game fights Plasmas, who are total copies of him with all his abilities and skills + their own, and Dante, even though he's being jumped by clones of himself, still won. This happens earlier in the timeline, too, where he's fighting Gilver, a clone made of the total combat data of himself, Vergil, AND his father. And later, when he fights Chen, who is 70% Sparda, amped by the Beastheads, and has "infinite" combat skill by absorbing infinite knowledge from across all space and time, had precognition, and he still kept up and won. Just generally speaking, Kratos and Dante kinda have Goku Energy. "I copied your entire fighting style, made it BETTER, AND got a 50x power increase!" Goku, who did not improve in any way, somehow still able to match up to the martial arts and stats of his opponent regardless. (See Cell and Goku Black.) That is to say, Copying them doesn't work for some reason. I know you were actually talking about actual real tangible gameplay and serious fights as the player Vs Kratos, but I just think it's an interesting tidbit of lore knowledge.

[@D.v-O4u2c]

@@GREATESTDANTE youre dog whistling mang this isnt about power scaling im talking about how dante has gotten the boss fight treatment but not kratos whos roots in the gaming industry are quite similar to dantes. both hack n slash icons doesnt matter who would win dante vs kratos thatll never be officially established but ay it is fun to speculate just try not to sound pretentious about it.

[@D.v-O4u2c]

@@redreaper9622 indeed its always fun to compare and contrast these sort of things :) but it does keep up the legacy and feats of whomever is the center of discussion.

[@jkm1059]

⁠@@GREATESTDANTEwell he never felt the need to dt, it’s very accurate

[@Nello_angelo]

Death battle should hire this guy , this is better then most their work

[@vergilcool]

Fact

[@astraneru]

@@vergilcool did you guys miss the part in the description where he said it took over 100 days to make this of course its gonna be better given that much time

[@Omega-jg4oq]

I just love that Dante doesn’t even think of using his guns for the entire fight 😂😂 he is actually goes barehanded at one point 😂

[@tristannewman5456]

Season 10 of death battle is peak

[@fandango_boi]

@@astraneru you right, tho it's not always about time, someone can have enough skill to make smooth animation in just a week. That's imo COLD asf. Especially if solo.

[@godfreynoir]

bro youre a god with these animations, YOUVE GOT TO DO BERSERK FIGHTS SO THEY FINALLY GET SOME JUSTICE !

[@artispace2329]

HOW DOES THIS ONLY HAVE 12 VIEWS

[@WashiKabir]

Bruh now he have 1,000,348 veiws

[@lordchiopet1630]

This was BRUTAL! Your animation and fight choreography is fantastic well done!

[@WashiKabir]

THIS IS NOT BRUTAL LIL BRO 😂

[@WashiKabir]

If you think it's brutal then don't play mortal kombet or don't watch ar the clown movie

[@DaniAdIg]

Loved all the references in this. The hurl by pulling Dante's leg, just like with baldur's first encounter, using the pillar to hit Dante with, same with baldur. And the jump from Dante to a knee into the ground. The animation is phenomenal. Amazing work

[@arkhamgamer2976]

Even if it's weird for me to see Kratos doing high kicks and stuff the animation is pretty good, the choreography is amazing, I really like this, I'm subbing right now to see how far you progress!

[@RaffleForCg]

I was looking for this comment!

[@thegreatrobin2329]

I think in the novelization there’s moment where Kratos thinks to himself how he doesn’t want show off his full strength so he doesn’t scare Atreus. So him doing high kicks is may be the classic “he was holding back” argument.

[@CementMixEater]

Having a tie at the end saved the comment section from becoming a total warzone. 💀💀💀

[@CementMixEater]

ngl i think that of the 2, kratos wins very high dif

[@侍-u1k]

​@@CementMixEaterKratos doesn't win Dante would win low diff

[@abhasbhagat8614]

​@@侍-u1kGods kill demons and those gods are killed by Kratos.. What makes you think he still has a chance 💀

[@andriuspitruzzella6651]

​@@abhasbhagat8614 you don't know dante's power do you ?

[@abhasbhagat8614]

@@andriuspitruzzella6651 I know.. I've played DMC 3 and DMC5

[@taxcollector9543]

Honestly, this is a pretty good animation. Altough it isn't _extremely_ flashy, it tries to keep itself grounded while slowly building up the tension to keep powering up both characters. It tries to show eachother's strengths and weaknesses, while trying to just _have fun_ while animating. Good job!

[@jazzflint8290]

Pretty good animation overall but was weird not seeing dante use any other weapons, use his devil trigger, use his different styles likewise for kratos not using blades of chaos, spartan rage. Solid animation but could be better

[@lightmohamed5700]

Of course it could be anything can be better and with time he will become better

[@therealbnasty3719]

Same for kratos, even if it is older kratos

[@mangopie7602]

Because this is a spar against two men. It's like laying down both your guns just to fight barehanded

[@SolidShepard]

you could argue kratos is using spartan rage the whole time. all spartan rage is, is kratos being big mad.

[@socketyellow3]

@@mangopie7602no it’s because animating that would be hell

[@Rod-mm5ze]

4:42 is an iconic scene

[@DayanDayan-xr3vc]

Its like baldur and kratos fight

[@cobaltthunder922]

The multiple reference to Vi's fighing style from Arcane were not expected but are greatly appreciated

[@anthonyvadala4837]

I love how you showed off that Kratos is a master of learning how to fight his opponent as the battle goes on. Especially when they're unarmed in this fight, you can see Kratos is losing ground at first but he learns how to keep up and surpass.

[@daydreamdirty]

To be a God- or god of war, there’s a lot one must do- and be proficient at.

[@ElLicenciadoLopezDG]

@@daydreamdirty True!

[@julius00]

I mean,Dante does that too,arguably much quicker,considering the times when he gets new Devil Arms and by that second he already knows big stylish moves

[@SolidShepard]

i don't think kratos ever really surpassed him though. Dante was the one in control the vast majority of this animation.

[@raptros]

Kratos is a very angry man, i don't really think he's a skilled fighter you can see by his demeanor that he's not a fighter you can have all the power in the universe but if you're not a martial artist you will end up tripping over your own artillery. Dante on the other hand you can see he took every page he could from every martial arts book, not to mention his demonic strenght, there is no competition. Add skill, the clear mind the precision the know how to demonic strenght, he's never angry, he's always ready for a good fight, he's not under pressure like Kratos is. Dante will always be one step ahead.

[@cooldiego7]

Even tho the animation is stiff, I can tell that you really enjoyed putting effort into this. Keep going at it. You are doing great and you'll get even better

[@zevil1999]

the animation is fine try watching it in 0.90 speed

[@Khaynizzle7]

Whoever animated this has extensive knowledge of martial arts. The hand to hand scenes are insane.

[@conqueror7777]

The animation was a little rough and stiff, but the choreography and pacing of the fight was fantastic. You're talented and you clearly love your work. I wish you the best in all your future projects.

[@tutlouise]

They stole a lot of the scenes from arcane and other shows look this up for source kratos v Dante by codename cmb The only reason I saw they stole them is because they are frame for frame and the description says nothing about using them as inspiration or anything else

[@marleycannon238]

​@@tutlouiseexactly kzbin.info/www/bejne/bavchphvfKinaZIsi=My1To-C0foQglkZH still badass tho but when I clocked I couldn't unsee it 😂

[@marleycannon238]

Same with echo vs jinx at 2:41 also the slow motion float and grab and throw from vi vs sevika you've got a good eye bro

[@nickdibart]

The sequence beginning at 4:40 is from Kratos' first battle with Baldur in God of War 2018.@@marleycannon238

[@cloroxbleachtm9638]

​@@tutlouise'aww my puss hurts!! You stole my favorite league of legends show!!" - 🤓

[@neutralhero999]

Dante has enough material to draw from in regards to his hand-to-hand skills, so seeing the references/traces to Kratos' fights with Baldur and Heimdall was just heartwarming in a way. I mean, sure, Dante is superior in that aspect, but kudos to the animator for showing Kratos eventually catching up to Dante's techniques in his own way.

[@michealrobinson3452]

And Kratos didn’t even have to use spartan rage lol

[@railgun1935]

​@@michealrobinson3452 bruh dante also didn't use Balrog DT and SDT.

[@st_doge5062]

@@michealrobinson3452 Dante didn't even use DT...

[@georgijcaikovskij5623]

@@michealrobinson3452 And Dante didn't even have to use 30% of his real power to Stomp Kratos ,lol.

[@PEACEMAKERS_OFFICIAL]

True

[@kevinodom8708]

I'm REALLY happy with this! This is all pretty lore accurate imo and they even fight just like we've been shown what they're capable of!

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

Lore accurate? Lore wise Kratos wouldn't even be able to see Dante due to the speed disparity or last a nanosecond against him.

[@cyberyousef6405]

@@TheStraightestWhitest it’s completely the opposite since lore kratos is outer, he is a concept to dante and he is infinitely faster than dante who is 9D, so kratos one taps him in 0 seconds

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@@cyberyousef6405 Kratos is hill level and got run through by a rock and struggles fighting humans. Cope.

[@DayMan..]

Not even close ​@@cyberyousef6405

[@GilgameshofBabylon]

​@TheStraightestWhitest Don't engage with Vermin. If they're willing to go with so-called 'Lore Kratos,' then nothing's preventing you from claiming 'Lore Dante' either. Take what they've consistently shown in cutscenes and what has successfully killed them. Kratos is shown to be killed more often and harmed by more mundane things that Dante could easily shrug off. Eg: Being impaled by the third boss in Ragnarok, the Huntress with a bone harpoon used to hunt regular humans. In a direct cutscene might I add.

[@martinbenatitinodekartella3074]

Yeah!!! I loved the many references retraced from Arcane series animation!! 👀✨ - 0:01 tthe begining course + the jump from Vi - 1:37 the chem-tanks speedrun - 2:09 all this sequence + the throw, from the fight Vi vs Sevika - 2:42 Dante dodging the axe like Ekko dodges Jinx's bullets in their 1v1 fight scene + the jump attack - 3:50 the superpunch and slowdown from the fight Vi vs Sevika - 4:35 Dante geting up like Sevika getting up Sick Stuff bro❤‍🔥

[@GarrysFactor]

The animation here is INSANE! Keep cooking! I love the Baldur refrences!

[@MilitaristTurkcu]

Thank God I am not the only one to notice it

[@The_chill_man.4989]

*WAAAAY TO UNDERRATED* . Amazing work man ✨️

[@552jacki3]

How the hell does this not have millions of views?

[@cristopherjg]

Great work! The continuity of this fight is fantastic! Every shot makes sense from the last hit - so good 😍😍🤩

[@Orpheus_Picaro]

Am I the only one would kill for a video game crossover between these two franchises? Also, very small nitpick, but Dante's face looks a bit off. Still an awesome fight though.

[@lightmohamed5700]

Me too

[@Pokaroquai]

both did appear in a game called PlayStation All Stars, pretty a much a Smash clone with PS characters. It's the only Reboot Dante tho that is there.

[@BlackUrameshi7]

I would love to just watch Kratos and Dante interact. I feel that would be hilarious

[@lightmohamed5700]

@@Pokaroquai reboot Dante is cringe all he does is brag about his stupid sword

[@lightmohamed5700]

@@BlackUrameshi7 YES!

[@FanaticChain]

This is incredible! Good job man!!

[@MilletAnimation]

Thank you for liking my video

[@rapid_rivers3294]

@@MilletAnimationHow long did this take you to make? It’s amazing for 1 person🔥

[@jayymorris5285]

Literally no notes on the animation or choreo! Incredible work from start to finish!! My ONLY gripe is that Kratos and Dante are known for three things: their personality, their bosses and their ARSENAL. I was excpeting every 12 seconds for them to seemlessly switch between different weapons and powrs they have gained throughout their series

[@alexanderlor1945]

I was just waiting till kratos yelled and to activate his rage and for Dante to say something very snarky

[@TheOmegaDragon]

I really like this fight. It shows how skilled these two combatants are without having to rely on cheap gimmicks to carry them through the fight. What you are saying makes sense too since their arsenal can provide a diverse dynamic to the fight.

[@jayymorris5285]

@@TheOmegaDragon Part of showing how skilled a combatant is IS showing that they have mastered multiple weapons and skills. I don't mind characters being boiled down to show more hand to hand, but if Kratos has his axe, why isn't he using any ice powers?

[@TheOmegaDragon]

​@@jayymorris5285 Weapons can be inherently powerful like Sparda and Blade of Olympus. Rebellion and the Levaithan Axe are their basic weaponry. Made the fight more about them rather than the gear they wield.

[@blazetheplaneswalker]

Me and my best friend having a mild disagreement:

[@UnOc2]

Damn, this is awesome, and both characters are portrayed pretty damn well in regards to how they fight, especially Kratos and his use of grapples and throws. I like how you referenced the first fight with Baldur at the end, too.

[@Dynamode8]

Excellent animation and choreography. Also cool references utilizing the camera framing and style from both their games. Great job 👏

[@gannielukks1811]

I think some of them are straight up removed from the in-game files.

[@brandolorian3333]

This is Badass!! I would love to see part 2 where Kratos uses more grappling/wrestling and Dante with his cocky martial arts, using more stylish kicks and his Bruce Lee battle cries. Seriously blown away a lot better than I hoped for:) instant sub

[@MilletAnimation]

Thanks for liking my video The next installment will try to do even better

[@brandolorian3333]

@@MilletAnimation looking forward to it :)

[@code44422]

I would also love to see Kratos (maybe should’ve been young Kratos to fit this since Olympus era Kratos is more violent, bloodthirsty, brutal, and more ferocious) fighting more ferocious with a style similar to Mike Tyson’s boxing style, the Peek-a-boo style. Considering I see similarities between the Greek backstory of Kratos and Mike Tyson’s personal life. Keep up with the animation and the fight because I loved it very well.

[@brandolorian3333]

@@code44422 that sounds awesome. I can totally imagine Kratos just coming at Dante like a pissed off grizzly bear

[@jeffersonferreira9836]

I always looked for it when I was a kid. Don't know why. Today I have this. Thank You!

[@keller1808]

How does this only have 1k views?? This is SO good, better than I expected. Definitely subscribing, I want to see more of this!

[@Odoggaming500]

Epic ! Now have Kratos fight his younger self! Bet that would be a fun project!

[@URKCEHinoSuu]

No bro, it stands at 21k at the time of this comment

[@Oreo_Editz]

Now it has 41k. Lol

[@edwinthomas3139]

All this needed was all Dante and kratos' unique abilities and it would have been perfect this was so good I keep finding good versus animations recently

[@NeuroTheory]

I love that both characters get impaled and brutally chopped with legendary weapons made to kill gods and just kinda shrug it of like it's just another thursday at work. Great work! 谢谢! Edit: Oh shit! You made this all by yourself?! Daaaaaamn, my guy! Let me just update my comment by saying: *AWESOME WORK, DUDE* !! You got mad talent! 🤩

[@FairGhost_113]

It's been 7 months since I last saw this. You definitely deserve more views friend

[@MilletAnimation]

Thank you for enjoying my work! I'd love to get your feedback on my latest video. Let me know how I can improve my work!

[@Jose-Castillo-El-General]

Devil trigger, spartan rage, blades of chaos, ebony and ivory has left the chat

[@Omega-jg4oq]

Dante actually goes barehanded like WHAT 😂 I know this is almost Baldur vs Kratos all over again animation but damn Dante fighting with his fits looks weird as hell.. at least give him Beowulf

[@lightmohamed5700]

@@Omega-jg4oq it will get better cut this man some slack he is not a studio of workers that worked for years and payed millions

[@Omega-jg4oq]

@@lightmohamed5700 I’m just saying I never wanted to see Dante fight with his fists lol, although the fight was awesome.. he can take all the time he wants and needs to work on it

[@lightmohamed5700]

@@Omega-jg4oq alright

[@lightmohamed5700]

@@Omega-jg4oq but he will become better give him time

[@Xardas742]

2:36 Legit thought that Dante was gonna grab the axe and return with it to Kratos. Nonetheless, that is a great animation.

[@ジョン-z2e]

Me too😂

[@Crackheadcentral2188]

Like “Yo king you dropped this” “Thanks bro

[@jakcayman9046]

Dante wouldve grabbed it out the air when he jumped over it and tried using it🤣 or he at least wouldve thrown it back

[@simonf9160]

Both of them being evenly matched in a fight is probably the most accurate thing I’ve seen

[@jakcayman9046]

As a hardcore fan of both series, at full power and most recent forms with ALL their natural abilities dante wipes, kratos doesnt really stand much of a chance, like at all dont get me wrong i love the concept, but dante just has too many abilities for kratos to realistically be able to win, i love kratos and wish this was more evenly matched, but hes honestly the type of opponent dante would absolutely wipe when it comes to armed combat, when it comes to raw hand to hand without abilites kratos has a better chance of winning due to his superior grappling, but dante has a much better striking game, especially when it comes to kicks, that being said id give raw hand to hand to kratos, but once you include hax abilites in that dante wins, especially with sin devil trigger, royal gaurd and doppleganger that alone would be enough to win this fight, even if he did something so small as give kratos both the axe and blades and switch out rebellion for devil sword dante and gives dante ebony and ivory(the 2 signature pistols that he always carrys around even back when rebellion was his main weapon) dante wins, its just not a fair fight unless you nerf dante to the extreme while giving kratos minimal nerfs

[@San.Garcia]

​@@jakcayman9046are you actually dumb?

[@camelcase_4336]

That's because so many anime characters are maxed in stats to the point they can't be killed, can't be harmed and have every single power imaginable.. what's the point of even comparing literal plot armour? Even arguing on one of these comparison fights against these sorts of anime characters is pointless to begin with. @@jakcayman9046

[@subhanahmed4778]

Fr man gotta be the most accurate thing ong

[@temp4743]

@@jakcayman9046so you don’t know god of war…

[@nvadams7344]

The hand to hand part was pretty accurate 🔥🔥 this would never end if kratos went berserk & Dante used DevilTrigger they can both heal and keep fighting

[@Mr.DaReal]

BROOO this animation is clean I just like how they look and move

[@Mr.DaReal]

Def serves a sub

[@MuhammadIshtiaqHaider-s2q]

BROOOO THIS IS SOOO GOOD!!! Why this doesn't have millions of views smh

[@mr-xg4kn]

This was awesome, the speed, the pace, the choreography, sound effects,so cool man keep up, I'm sure some company will discover you're talent

[@josemoreu5038]

This is beautiful brother. Amazing choreography, did both of them justice. Ngl tho, Dante should’ve been smiling, taunting and provoking Kratos 99% of the fight lol other than that! This is legendary! Would love to see part 2!

[@caioaugusto2502]

Assistir dois dos maiores protagonistas dos games entrando na mão, simplesmente não tem preço. Animação excelente. E no final....Dante quebrou o joelho e desmaiou e Kratos ficou exausto e foi tirar uma soneca.

[@MrValentineFunny]

Mas depois de uma briguinha dessas, aí qualquer um kkkk Realisticamente falando, os dois só tavam brincando de lutinha.

[@netomedeiros3129]

@@MrValentineFunny De fato. Pra quem conhece, sabe que nenhum deles chegou perto de cansar. Ou... já estavam cansados kkk

[@riskialif7368]

​@@MrValentineFunnyIs this an original video made by Capcom and Santa Monica or just made by gamer fans?

[@riskialif7368]

​@@netomedeiros3129Is this an original video made by Capcom and Santa Monica or just made by gamer fans?

[@pedrodoido1572]

@@netomedeiros3129 realmente , mais temos q concordar , so rolaria uma luta meio que equilibrada se caso o kratos tivesse a lamina do olimpo {ele atualmente} ,

[@ethanjenkins5079]

This was awesome as hell. Cool as absolutely possible and I can see the time and effort that was put into it. ....that said I can't help but see where some of the animations come from as I watch. Dante's entry was stright up Vi's run in episode 5 or so of Arcane. The first half of the fight was also from arcane, Vi verses that chick with the metal arm. Dante dodging the leviathan ax was also from Arcane as well, Echo dodging Jinx's bullets. Then the last half of the fight was the opening fight against Baldur from God of War 2018, Dante's entire weaponless moveset is baldur. Again this isn't a bad animation by any means, it was kickass through and through, these are just little things I couldn't help noticing as I love watching animation and video games so much.

[@GTXDash]

Yeah, I couldn't watch the rest. It's so blatant it's distracting.

[@thanatos6518]

Pienso lo mismo cuando veo esto y tengo la sensación de haberlo visto antes ,gracias por confirmar mi "déjá vu"

[@SeanCanary]

Of course, The Son of Sparda is against The Ghost of Sparta, flawless work my friend. Can't imagine how long this took you to make. I feel like I should pay by just watching it hahaha!

[@Sakaaruser22]

Kratos would def hurt Dante because his feats are insane he can literally block any attack coming he’s outside of time and space basically but this is more realistic a endless fight we’re both would prob give up unless kratos lets out the real God of war. Which would ☠️

[@blackpaisley5156]

@@Sakaaruser22 You never played DMC and it shows

[@m.a.g.y.1796]

Believe me, after that fight, they MIGHT have went into a pub and cracked open a LOT of cold ones while telling each other of their battles across all of their respective games.

[@MilletAnimation]

I'd love to get your feedback on my latest video. Let me know how I can improve my work!

[@Skibodo_edits]

4:41 why same as baldur vs Kratos?

[@Thesans_Gamer]

He added lil reference

[@drakonli]

This is absolutely insane. This should have millions of views. One thing I would have asked is like Dante should be older and Kratos should be more brooding. But it's like w/e this is amazing job.

[@adamsin9260]

Respect for how you made this. Looks so great man

[@aws_exploit]

ONE OF THE BEST ANIMATION IVE EVER SEEN IN A VERSES BATTLE. AM NOT EVEN MAD AT THIS FUCK I NG CHEFS KISSS 😂❤ THANK YOU BRO U DESERVE EVERY SINGLE VIEWS

[@demitrischoenwald1436]

My guy, this is top tier battle choreography. Watching this play out was sublime, even seeing them go completely to fists after dropping their weapons was satisfying to watch. The ending too was kinda funny and made some sense. Not having any of the expanded movesets of each fighter come into play also likely made the whole thing easier to put together.

[@tutlouise]

They stole a lot of the scenes from arcane and other shows look this up for source kratos v Dante by codename cmb The only reason I saw they stole them is because they are frame for frame and the description says nothing about using them as inspiration or anything else

[@thugsfunny7594]

This is the best fight I've seen on yt between Dante and The Ghost of Sparta. Good job!

[@TahmidA150]

The good: This is very good animation and excellent choreography. A well choreographed fight Criticism: The characters are throwing moves extremely fast whilst this isnt bad the problem is compounded by the fact that there are rapid cuts along with the camera moving as fast hence making it hard to make whatever they are doing hard to make out. A wide angle shot from various angles would've been better and I think speed ramp in and out for some moves would've also done wonders to sell power as well But nonetheless this shows very good potential keep up the good work

[@chand198]

Dude I use that Exact picture for my steam profile lol. Had me real confused when I saw it. Gotta love that Solo leveling

[@hiarus8850]

To add to it, some of Kratos moves felt out of character for old Kratos, I don't think he'd bother doing stuff like 0:29 or 0:50 Regardless still pretty good, it's nice to see some fan character fight animation that doesn't feel biased towards either character

[@j-dawg4774]

0:01 Where have I seen this type of running before?

[@icehorse2007]

The fall of khaenr'ea or something

[@j-dawg4774]

@icehorse2007 Nah. I've seen it somewhere but I just can't put my finger on it.

[@j-dawg4774]

​@icehorse2007 Might have been Victor from Arcane running for the first time, but maybe not. He definitely got this animation from somewhere, though.

[@sandeshrangari694]

Vector 😂

[@martinbenatitinodekartella3074]

This is VI from the Arcane Series animations : this is her parcours scene in episode 5

[@zyixy]

Honest criticism. I love both characters so I couldn't care less who wins here. My main problem is with the creativity of this animation. - Both Kratos and Dante not using their other weapons is boring. Good ol' fistfight doesn't suit them. - Dante not using his signature guns and Devil Trigger. Overall, animation and fight choreography is fantastic. I can definitely see the effort the animator put in and their passion for animation! However, the points I described above is probably the reason why this animation doesn't get the views it needs. If you're planning on making another 1v1 animation, please research the characters a bit more. I'm looking forward to seeing more animations from you!

[@FalconAttack16]

Yeah, I was also confused where Ebony and Ivory were. Would've pulled them out after he lost Rebellion since he uses pistols in close range fights too.

[@Gekk-rx7nv]

Dante tried to hit him with the Baldur special, but forgot he wasn’t blessed with invulnerability to all threats, physical or magical, and died of knee pain Edit: damn I woke up all the powerscaler mfs 💀💀

[@Scar3crowss]

Nah, he's not dead. This was clearly less of a fight for Dante and more of a practice sparring, as he was clearly going easy on him.

[@Captain_Redfield]

​@@Scar3crowssSame could be said for Kratos.

[@MrValentineFunny]

​@albertwesker9061 Nah, Dante did some crazy shit on the DMC series. Meanwhile, Kratos died 3 times, and one of them was to a stake.

[@Gekk-rx7nv]

@@Scar3crowss calm your tits down, I was making a joke, no need to get up ‘n arms to defend daddy Dante

[@Scar3crowss]

@@Gekk-rx7nv Dude, I'm as cool as a cucumber Rn... You seem to be taking this more seriously than I am...

[@j.j.ditkovich3490]

I don’t know what other commentators are talking about, but Kratos’ fighting style is very different from the one in games. Kratos would have used Leaviathan’s ice magic, somersaults and shield much more often than in this animation. In the beginning he would pretend to be weak and incapable of fighting back, while studying Dante’s movements. Slowly he would become faster and stronger, gaining more knowledge. He would also rely heavily on his fists and surrounding objects while the axe is gone.

[@fe6587]

there are many mistakes about Dante too, but I think they speak in general terms

[@FolstrimHori]

While you're correct about Kratos, you clearly have never played a single DMC title in your life.

[@temp4743]

I’ve played all dmc and I fail to understand how they say KRATOS loses. KRATOS would use Dante hand to wipe his ass

[@gannielukks1811]

​@@FolstrimHoriHe said nothing about Dante dude

[@ClassicalOdysseyvideos]

I saw this fight months ago and expected it to have a couple million views, stuff like this is underrated

[@MilletAnimation]

I'd love to get your feedback on my latest video. Let me know how I can improve my work!

[@ghostraven07]

Amazing job that kinda make me think of an old video called Haloid from Mounty Oum. We can feel the amount of work and artistic vision you put into your work and that was very good on many aspects. The camera angles goes large when it needs to, upclose again to show how tight every move are considering the huge forces these two are. The visual effects were good, it makes the fight a little more lively and we can also see the difference in their fighting style easily, Dante being more acrobatic and sassy than Kratos that is much more grounded and Warrior like. For the little minus. I would say say the choice of having young Dante and old Kratos was kinda surprising. I expected Pizza guy to have the model from DMC5 haha. Also the "problem" with the fight between these two is that they both have an arsenal of different weapons and even if you didn't go with their crazy assets in weaponry I expected to at least see the blade of Chaos and Ebony/Ivory which are their second main weapons in their respective series. As for your question in the description. Who is stronger ? Well it's up tol interpretations and people will always have something to say against who you think is. There is a site called VSbattle wiki that tries to rank characters in terms of potency with Lore facts and estimates. On that site Kratos is above Dante but at the end of the day "Whoever the author wants to win would win". Cheers man and keep it up. Your work is still great !

[@fe6587]

Actually on that site you can see that Dante is above Kratos

[@ghostraven07]

@@fe6587 Just checked again and I see Dante 2-C with Higher potential in SDT and Kratos 1-C which is a class above. So if you saw anything different I would be curious to see it (note that they were actually in the same class in the past if my memory is good).

[@fe6587]

@@ghostraven07 Strange, a few months ago it was written that Dante was a 1 C while Kratos was a 2 C which made sense, given that Kratos lost almost all his powers in gow 3 and is almost always tired, I don't know why they changed . I apologize I didn't see the change

[@BaustisaRuiz]

@@fe6587 kratos would destroy Dante this video nerfed kratos

[@bramwhitlock5189]

Can tell this took hours upon hours. Great work man. :D

[@ManojKumar-sy7bw]

Dante didn't use royal guard?? Any good video man. 👏

[@itszekom]

This is actually sick. Very nice work. But one thing I will say is the animations do look rather stiff at times, but still, amazing animation dude.

[@ThePowerscalingCinephile]

The animation is great bro. Although Lore Wise, Dante would just instantly smack Kratos down but when the fights are this great, lore consistency be damned

[@code44422]

I’m more of a Dante fan and I admit that Kratos would win. But yeah screw the lore, this animation is great. I hope we have another installment with their fighting styles similar to their personality, maybe with young / Olympus era Kratos so it could fit with Kratos being a more ferocious, violent, and aggressive fighter like Mike Tyson against Dante who is more of a Bruce Lee fighter and Jackie Chan’s fighting and taunting style. Edit (too lazy to reply); Those were real scans and Kratos was never debunked. Listen to those real actual scans, and don’t listen to those people who relied on this long debunking video on Kratos made by some Goku meatrider.

[@ThePowerscalingCinephile]

@@code44422 "I’m more of a Dante fan and I admit that Kratos would win." - Lol no, not even close. Dante's literally Complex Multiversal whereas Kratos isn't even close to this. Don't believe the fake scans/pictures people been putting out to make Kratos universal. Those have been debunked yet somehow still being used. "I hope we have another installment with their fighting styles similar to their personality, maybe with young / Olympus era Kratos so it could fit with Kratos being a more ferocious, violent, and aggressive fighter like Mike Tyson against Dante who is more of a Bruce Lee fighter and Jackie Chan’s fighting and taunting style." - I think he definitely showcased this already. Dante was taunting and fighting flashy here whereas Kratos fights more brutally and aggressive.

[@LORDAMIT-e4h]

​@@ThePowerscalingCinephiletatti Dante is 9d,so he is omnipresent omniscient etc..

[@ThePowerscalingCinephile]

@@LORDAMIT-e4h If he had the Beasthead's powers, sure

[@Fred-fenSpinerir]

Why do you sweats want to screw the fun of fighting by checking stats lol this is stupid af . I just want to see the actual battle not this catfight type junk

[@Razax7]

Insane animation and I was caught by surprise by how well taken their moves are from their own respective games. Initially when fight started with kratos jump, I was a bit skeptical thinking it's another generic animated fight scene but then lots of moments came which were jaw dropping. What would make this video million times better is if they had some dialogues, similar to mightyracoon videos. Having a good story combined with this type of animation would be a deadly combination.

[@rialyandriamiseza9814]

Outstanding graphism and animation, however, I feel like their fighting styles aren't lore accurate. But then again, I suppose that having Dante pull out 8 weapons, 4 fighting style and 2 devil triggers in 5 minutes would be much harder to render.

[@guiller977vulcano6]

Great work man! The animation is very good and I see you took a lot of references from the first fight of GoW 2018, the only thing I would change is some transitions, I think you use too much black screens and that takes you a bit out of the action, but other than that the movement were good and the camera work was amazing too, keep up the good work!

[@MilletAnimation]

Thank you very much for your advice Those are the things I need to improve

[@necrago]

2:08 That's from Arcane, where Vi fights Sevika the final time, and instead of blocking with a physical shield, the does with her metal gloves (kinda), after which she's thrown in the exact choreography as shown here. 2:24 That's exactly like when Kratos throws his axe and recalls it into and from Baldur in GOW 2018 in the final fight, where Baldur is at the end of his fire stage, and before the giant's giant chisel is thrown at them, shot for shot. 3:13 Kratos throwing a tree log into Baldur from GOW 2018 in their first encounter at the end of Baldur's first stage. 3:38 Again, the final fight between Vi and Sevika, except this time Dante takes the role of Vi instead. 4:39 Baldur throws Kratos on his house at the end of his first stage, but the scene is instead paired up with the one after Baldur's first real punch on Kratos (over his house this time). The others scenes I didn't quite recognize, not at first anyway.

[@Pejuangdadangaming]

Kratos vs Dante is a really great battle. Neither character must die and of course Kratos is greater than Dante

[@Keeper-RC0]

Кратос сильнее Данте😂 Ты вообще сейчас серьезно??Кто то не знает силу Данте... Если что. Данте намного сильнее Кратоса.

[@Lazar-ox5bd]

​@@Keeper-RC0 the 9D statement is not canon, thus Dante and Kratos are relatively equal

[@skumomcbee1255]

honestly it's a good matchup. Could go either way. you did a great job.

[@djenime7296]

This party is getting crazy!!!!! But seriously this is such an amazing animation you have created. Bless you for making and sharing this!

[@gabyredgrave]

The animation is incredible! The movements are fluid and very coherent with the characters. I loved it👏🏻👏🏻

[@Mochi_hantaaa]

we need to tell them about this *masterpiece*

[@KisukePM21]

I love it! There are things that I think need find tuning, as a fan, but the quality is definitely there! Keep it up!

[@franzu3145]

I really like how he used Baldur's move from GOW 1 for Dante. Truly his moves.

[@franzu3145]

on 4:36

[@DreadGB]

The 2018 game is God of War 4 bro

[@abc4781]

Lol we're calling it it gow1 now?

[@shadegaming5885]

Dante and Kratos knocking each other out sound about right afterwards they would wake up and be good sparring buddies

[@ArcueidBrunestuddo]

Kratos was really well done, but Dante could've been done much much better, especially character wise. His expression should be like he's having the time of his life, full of smiles and cockiness even when Kratos lands damaging hits, much to Kratos' chagrin. I'd imagine their meeting to go like Kratos' first meeting with Baldur. Kratos with his "You do not want this fight." and Dante with his classic taunting. More weapons could've been used, Kratos didn't use his Blades of Chaos even once, and Dante only used Rebellion and his fists. Dante's fighting and dodging should reflect his stylish gameplay, including slowmo closeups. As the fight escalates Kratos' would go Spartan Rage, and Dante would pull his Devil Trigger and Sin Devil Trigger raising the destruction they cause from stone walls to massive islands. Hopefully Death Battle does a matchup between these two, their animators would be able to do the fight justice judging from what they've made so far. This isn't to knock this animation which I think was done well, but now it's made me desire for more.

[@marleycannon238]

I watched it in the lense that they just playing around yet dante not laughing or grinning alot was abit out of character it's still an amazing video I think animation both or there full arsenal's would be way to hard / expensive this currewnt version probably took ages so I'm just enjoying the art for what it is

[@dantelacroix8044]

Only 100 days of work for as much quality. You are very strong, I subscribe and thank you for your work.

[@mc_rysiek5277]

I wish we could see more weapons, especially the Blades of Chaos, though I imagine those would be a nightmare to animate. Still, awesome work!

[@aarovar1357]

I credit the work put in. Very good effort and a lot of painstaking work for just one person to do. However, BOTH Kratos and Dante have far more stamina, since neither even pushed themselves to exert Spartan Rage nor Devil Trigger, this bit of fighting would not of exhausted them. Before the 2 minute mark. Dante had chosen to kick him from behind even though he could have beheaded Kratos if he chose to. Again very nicely done, but this doesn't really reflect themselves in a authentic sense. The main issue with these 2 different universes clashing is that Dante is far more cracked than Kratos, even though Kratos is a God, there's so much execution of weapon talents Dante didn't even pull off here, and most of this stuff is just a royal guard to 2 away from a victory. Not even a glimpse of Chaos Blades/Blades of Olympus to be seen. Again I know there is limitations of creator software and animations/light effects knowledge but gotta remember BOTH of these characters can dish out and take a WHOLE LOT more than this.

[@randwindhusk]

Very well done with the animation!!! But Dante is on another level. His base reaction time before his demon hunting could hit every rain drop around him while fighting Vergil in dmc, there he also got the devil arms to slow time. In early dmc i think 1 when he fought nightmare for the first time, Nightmare was feared by mundus as he could destroy the hell dimension which in dmc is an infinite dimension. Going in hand to hand combat, Dante also has his devil arms and devil trigger. Dante just straight up cant be killed. Back in dmc 3 he sliced vergil in half who immediately regenerated back. His regen is off the charts. Even when being punched out of his devil trigger by Urizen he went into a coma, still didnt even kill him. Then therea Royal guard.

[@hafirenggayuda]

Royal Guard is just OP

[@DDFF-qn8ic]

@@hafirenggayuda yeah canonically you don't even have to do the stance and much worse it can nullify attacks ,create barrier and heal to you + dante feel any kind of pain will boost he's power more

[@andreacataldi564]

In this video Dante is without royal guard/trickster/swordmaster skill/royalguard/DT/SDT....WTF

[@marccalveras5112]

You know he’s fighting Kratos right, the guy who murdered an entire pantheon and walked off of hell after killing the god who ruled it. The same guy who killed a god who couldn’t be harmed by any means, and a god who couldn’t even be touched…

[@DDFF-qn8ic]

@@marccalveras5112 nice hyperbole bro the guy who died 3 times and need help 3 times to escape death Harmed by any means? bruv kratos got impale by a pillar and gow 2018 a Rock a god who couldn’t even be touched? thor, zues and Ares killed him bruv

[@SirChikenVII]

This is an incredible animation and I can tell just how much effort you put into it. But Dante's face? *scooches chair forward* That scares me.

[@Light_wing-22]

0:25 umm so am I the only one who just recognized the 25 second fight… Trollhunters rise of the Titans Jim versus Bellrock

[@MilletAnimation]

I'd love to get your feedback on my latest video. Let me know how I can improve my work!

[@shemseddine7547]

Whatever Kratos can do, Dante does even better. He's a weapon master, he can use any weapon at 100% even if he never touched it before. He's a trickster who can literally move so fast it seems like he teleported. He's a gunsligner with impossible tier aimbot, he can stack bullets filled with demon energy of top of each other and stirke a single point. And he has ROYAL GUARD, no need to explain that part.

[@Vergil1233x]

Royal guard will rip kratos in half 😂

[@shemseddine7547]

@@Vergil1233x It will send him back to olympus 😂

[@cristhianramirez6939]

I fail to see how any of that its a threat to kratos

[@crackiechan8704]

It was fantastic but to be lore accurate Dante would have stomped Kratos. Kratos used extra weapons and Dante didn't. If Dante would have went into DT Kratos would have been a gonner. Additionally Dante's recovery is so insane; At the end of this fight he would have still been at 99%.

[@hybridshinobiYT]

Kratos was using environmental attacks

[@BioHazardMortal]

​​@@hybridshinobiYTonly demons servant believe if they lord dante win against a god 😂

[@Harmzeedj1]

Not sure I agree with you there. I'd say they're pretty much even. If Dante used DT, kratos would use SR and also has great healing abilities through this, as well as when not enraged. So counter for counter. @crackiechan

[@EzequielRuizdiaz-uu8ot]

Imao kratos would wipes dante this video nerfed kratos

[@Pyre]

I was going to comment about where each of them has an advantage over the other, how I think it would end up. But no, none of that. This was excellent, and thank you for it.

[@MilletAnimation]

I'd love to get your feedback on my latest video. Let me know how I can improve my work!

[@dominoxbelovaxv177]

0:42 Anyone catch the DMC4 reference?