Dark Souls 3 easter egg: Not talking to handmaiden until after Untended Graves

[@MaereJaneMan]

This is a great lore find. It reminds me of Solaires dialogue from the first game. "The flow of time itself is convoluted, with heroes centuries old phasing in and out. The very fabric wavers, and relations shift and obscure."

[@sacc4022]

That's why I think the untended graves are a weird mix of being in the past and future at the same time.

[@serPomiz]

I would add, as the present to; if you mess up with noclip,. You can reach the castle from the shrine, but if you try to physically go back, you can only reach the untended graves. The only way to reach the shrine is by teleporting in and out, and gwographically, they are at the very same spot

[@Flufflestuff]

Now wait until visiting untended graves before talking to andre. (I reccomend doing this in NG+ after you got weapon/estus upgrades done). See if he complains about a missing hammer or something lol.

[@aname6790]

If you don't pick the Covetous Silver Serpent Ring in the regular firelink shrine, but you pick it in the unintended graves, it does disappear from the regular firelink shrine, you find the chest suddenly open and empty, which makes sense as you took it away in the past.

[@simastekorius7525]

None of this matters. What matters is WHY DOES SHE SELL ARTORIAS ARMOR SET!?!?

[@simastekorius7525]

***** that explains nothing

[@simastekorius7525]

***** For some reason i think that this has a deeper meaning. Everyone loved artorias, i think we might get some quality fan service in upcoming dlcs.

[@simastekorius7525]

***** Pretty sure it's 2. Go do some research, i'm too lazy to do it myself.

[@fachawassi]

+Crypt Axests ive done some research and there will be 3 dlcs, 1 on september (thoug recent information assure that can be in august) 1 on early 2017 and the other one has no date. www.christiantoday.com/article/dark.souls.3.dlc.release.date.rumors.dlc.arriving.earlier.than.expected/86527.htm PS: could be pure shit

[@AceFromGorillaz]

when you kill a boss then she sells his armor, the only boss of the untended graves we killed was champion gundyr, so artorias =champion gundyr? maybe champion gundyr is artorias soul reborn

[@samiamtheman7379]

When Sirris leaves for the Pit of Hollows, the Shrine Handmaid an item with a unique description that implies she is Sirris's grandmother.

[@autismisuncontrollable4925]

I'm pretty sure everyone who has done Sirris's quest knows that already, and it's not THAT significant, unless we're talking about the sunless realms.

[@samiamtheman7379]

Reclaimer I just don't think many people buy that item from her

[@Forkontheleft]

what throws me off is messages you leave in firelink are in the same spot and everything in the untended graves version

[@FalconFetus8]

THINK OF THE LORE IMPLICATIONS

[@KindOldRaven]

+FalconFetus8 Passed this video along to Vaati as well (linking the video and quickly describing it) to see if it influences his lore videos in any way ;p

[@mushymcmushington7176]

ENB is EN-Bae

[@kavka3842]

It's dark before t was before Ludleth kindled the flame and continued the fading age of fire. I think he has some dialogue on it. He saw the dark and decided to become a lord of cinder. The champion gundyr's armor also confirms this. By defeating him he decides to become a sheath for the coiled sword and act as the iudex for the ashen champion.

[@diacrane]

what if the handmaiden became an invader in the dlc and her power is equal to the amount of souls you spent at her in firelink shrine. that'd be dope

[@HeavyMetalLink05]

+gamesting diacrane I'd one shot her lol, the only thing I bought from her was Embers, Titanite Slab and the Final Boss Armor

[@diacrane]

Lol yeah, i bought a bunch of Stuff so she'd be pretty OP

[@itsnows]

+gamesting diacrane That would seriously fuck me over :D :D

[@diacrane]

Wim Damen het zou awesome zijn :P

[@joshuakim5240]

She would annihilate me for the insane number of armors i bought from her... Damn my collection obsession and fashion needs!

[@BushBumperBaker]

It's stated several times that time is broken and out of order in the Souls universe. The planes of existences are being destroyed by the fire being linked so many times. The Graves exist in a weird dimension, a different kind of timeline, not the past. It's convoluted. It's not meant to be explained really, it's purposely confusing.

[@WesManGuitar]

The firelink shrine is an alternate dimension "safehouse" for the player to travel to. You can't walk anywhere from firelink because it's a future version of the untended graves. the "present" firelink shrine is the one at the end of the game when the world is in eternal darkness waiting for the first flame to be rekindled. The untended graves is the world as it is when the champion of ash at the time (Champion Gundyr) is late to the shrine and his firekeeper dies (leaving the eyes of the firekeeper behind). If left alone for another cycle, the abyss then overcomes Gundyr turning him into the wretch that is Iudex Gundyr which you obviously fight at the "beginning" of the game. He stays and waits for another champion of ash whom he tries to kill to ensure the champion is worthy to rekindle the flame and not fail as he did. You can give the eyes to your firekeeper to warn her of a possible future where there is no champion and the flame is allowed to die.

[@NinjapowerMS]

Now this makes the most sense plus it still reinforces the idea that it all happened in the previous cycle but untended grave is a what if the Ashen one comes and slams gundyrs lazy ass

[@GeminiFate]

it's not in the past, but rather an alternate timeline where gundyr was the champion of ash, but he awoke too late, and the world was already succumbing to the abyss. time proceeded, and the people came to firelink shrine (the same ones you recruit) and gundyr remained, unable to link the fires as they were already out, and so he could not travel beyond firelink shrine, because he was late to link the fire there. So in the time you exist in, we can see a gundyr who thrust the sword to link the fires into himself, and took the abyss in

[@GeminiFate]

which allowed him to kindle the flame within himself, much like what gwyn did in Dark Souls 1. Though gundyr did this late, when the abyss had already taken over, and so he was consumed by it. That sword he used is the one you find at untended graves firelink. Which is why you return it there when you pull the sword from him

[@GeminiFate]

+truenorseviking furthermore, the reason the shrine handmaiden believes she recognizes you, is because of deja vu. there is an odd theory on deja vu that some believe when it is experienced, it feels familiar because another version of you in another dimension/timeline has experienced the same thing, and that your minds are somehow linked. The developer of this game obviously likes philosophy. lol

[@The1Rausch]

+truenorseviking i like your thread here a lot, but one thing i want to clear up : In Neuroscience the DejaVu is fully explained. There is no mystery about it. And it has nothing to do with parallel dimensions. Or Timelines. (Its just a lag of neurons interacting with each other. It has to do with your long and short -term memory. If a Information is [because of many reasons, the brain is a complicated thing] stored wrongly, in the wrong segment of your brain, you will have a DejaVu. As short as possible, there are scientific papers about it. You can force DejaVu`s .) Just wanted to make that clear. Everything else you posted : I agree. :)

[@GeminiFate]

The1Rausch what I mentioned was just some people's theory on deja vu. Even Michio Kaku addresses that theory. However, the explanation you gave is also a theory. There is no factual scientific reason given as to what causes deja vu. Just theories surrounding it. Do not confuse theories with truth.

[@The1Rausch]

truenorseviking Michio Kaku ? ok, then ... (

[@cyrlangaming]

Yes Untended Graves is really is the past it is really obvious if you finish the game, when the 5 lords given all their lord of embers to the unkindled, the shrine became dark, before fighting the Soul of CInder, it means that the shrine bacame untended grave again, and it will continue again on a cycle :D

[@XXavierSin-XXs]

That would mean future, not past. The real point is that time goes in a co stamt cycle. Everything will happen again.

[@cyrlangaming]

+XXavierSin yes that is what im saying, the untended grave is the future if you didnt visit it yet and it will be past after you kill the last boss :) and all thoses thing happen in a cycle, rebuild, cinder will rise, fire will fade and rebuild again

[@XXavierSin-XXs]

+Cyrica Okay, sorry. It was genuinly difficult to understand your train of thought.

[@cyrlangaming]

+XXavierSin yea i thought so, just a habit of mine

[@XXavierSin-XXs]

+Cyrica Nothing terribly wrong with that though.

[@OPERATI0N-I.C.E]

How old is this Handmaid She basically outlived Andre & the firekeeper

[@MM-ef2yy]

I'm more of a friend to the "alternative/future reality thing" or at least the Untended Graves being the mirror/real place of the Firelink Shrine - for two reasons: 1) I found my own message at the exact place I put it when I first killed Iudex Gundyr and got to the shrine 2) Using the Tree glitch to get on the tree and to the chest behind Lothric's Throne lets you find an empty chest, same as in the shrine. Also, FromSoft did something similar in Bloodborne. The Hunter's Dream exists on the material plane called "Old Workshop". So yeah, it is the exact same place, but not in the past.

[@Evnyofdeath]

+Manni DefinitelyNot A lot of the lore around Gundyr and Ludleth very heavily suggests the Untended Graves are in the past, compared to Firelink.

[@meathir4921]

Comparing it to Bloodborne doesn’t really make sense. Dreams are a clearly denoted alternate (higher or lower; depends on the dream) plane of existence (as in physically; you can see some of the various dream worlds from others) and we know that some dreams can be formed from memories of reality (the Hunter’s Nightmare is clearly a replica of Cathedral Ward and Central Yharnam; I would say the Lecture Building as well but the Lecture Building could also be the REAL Lecture Building transplanted into a dream world; we don’t know as we never see the Lecture Building IRL). There is nothing suggesting the Untended Graves are on a different plane explicitly; we have no “lore mechanics” establishing it as in a different plane or dimension.

[@justApplay]

Nice find. I always thought the Untended Graves is around the time we see in the intro cinematic. We can see the "Nameless Accursed Undead" carrying a body and a bonfire. I like to think that he betrayed the firekeeper and stole the fire, making everything goes dark.

[@bonehead156]

younger prince lothric refusing to link the fire is the reason everything is going to shit. in theory anyway....

[@justApplay]

What I understood so far is that Lothirc refused to be a Lord of Cinder, so it didn't actually make the fire extinguish, but with no one to keep it, it was fading. The narrator says that the Pilgrims discover that the fire was fading away in the cinematic intro. Maybe what happened in the intro is somewhere in between. She says "nameless accursed undead". This is also a quote when you do the usurper of fire (without the Anor Londo crew) after you kill hit and kill the Firekeeper. So, after the bell rings, that lonely Lord of Cinder in the light bonfire does something to help sustain the fire, as our character rises and everything is still daylight. I could be wrong though. That's what I understood so far, I'm yet to read other people's discovers about the lore.

[@teflonvaughn1470]

+Aruã Torres I was under the impression it was in the future, but this contradicts that theory. However, you find Yoel's ashes, Andre's hammer, and the firekeeper's eyes in this "past" location. How in the hell does that make sense?

[@teflonvaughn1470]

Also, for what it's worth, on my NG++ playthrough I left the illusory wall and serpant ring in FS and sure enough they were still there when I did the tree glitch to reach the top of dark FS...

[@MaereJaneMan]

+Teflon Vaughn "The flow of time itself is convoluted, with heroes centuries old phasing in and out. The very fabric wavers, and relations shift and obscure."

[@konshinryuuu]

always thought that untended graves and the shrine in there is the current time while the one the player use is something like of a limbo similar to the hunter's dream. i mean, she doesn't respawn like the one in the functioning shrine if you kill her in the untended graves. my thoughts for this is that she and gundyr has a residual physical form in the untended graves. kind of like how ghosts has unfinished business. they're like flesh ghosts of the ones you see in the functioning shrine. a popular belief is that the ashen one traveled back in time to defeat him and that he ended up as a sheath for the coiled sword. this is kind of a paradox since you are yet to become the ashen one before defeating iudex gundyr. my theory though, as to why champion gundyr isn't bound by the coiled sword when you meet him in the untended grave is the same reason why you can find your souls in both realms. basically, you removed it in the limbo version. thus freeing his "dead inside" flesh version in the untended graves. handmaiden special dialogue though, rather than seeing it as a time travel scenario. i see it as having different savepoints with the shrine version overwriting the graves version. if you never talked to the handmaiden in the shrine, she will definitely say something like "remembering" your conversation as it is your first time interacting with her in the shrine. while talking to her first in the shrine before meeting her flesh ghost in the graves is more of like "i don't need to tell you what you already know, so meh~ no special dialogue for you".

[@ratmonk6807]

It was my assumption that the untended graves took place in the past when Gundyr was meant to be a lord of cinder, but he came too late and his firekeeper was dead or something. Then we kill him and make him a sheath for the coiled sword, similar to how we kill Artorias in the dlc and we are mentioned as an unnamed hero who killed him in the past (got this from the item description for the estus ring plus some other item descriptions)

[@cptbaguette]

+Spencer Carter but the untended graves aren't in the past. They're buried deep under lothric as if someone tried to hide it or lothric was built on its remains. I wish they would give a few more details about it

[@MaereJaneMan]

+Taha Iftikhar Remember Solaires initial dialogue about time being convoluted in Dark Souls 1. I think that in this land, due to what Gwyn did, the past, present, and future all share the same space essentially.

[@cptbaguette]

that's...shit i actually never thought of it that way. To add to that, the narrator refers to Lothric as a place where the "transitory" lands of the lords of cinder converge. I wonder if there's a relation between that and your theory

[@ShoorfLonelyLokly]

I hope they'll use the Dark Firelink Shrine as a connection to future DLCs since this is pretty much confirmation that it's in the past.

[@thatoneguyfromhs4944]

my question is, if it's in the past, why in hell can we access it from oceiros' chamber?

[@EngY2502]

+That one guy from Hs This will sound incredibly far fetched, so allow me to entertain you. Oceiros was obsessed with Seath the Scaleless and all his research, which could have helped make him into a dragon. We know from Dark Souls 1 that one of Seath's crystal golems had a peculiar artifact that connected the past to the present through some dark force (Manus). Maybe through the grand archives, Oceiros discovered this research about the artifact and somehow created a portal to the past. Because of the dark nature of the technique, Oceiros may have been absorbed into this black abyss that's called the Untended Graves in game, and may have discovered Ocelot (I really don't think this is the case, but we could say that he saw something that made him insane). And if Oceiros is indeed responsible for this portal to the Untended Graves, then he may have tried to hide it with an illusionary wall so others wouldn't find it. But it would be incredible if this was true, because it could explain why Seath and Big-Hat Logan both went insane in the Duke's Archives. They already uncovered the First Born's sin with a boss encounter, so why not?

[@biterness2323]

+That one guy from Hs Maybe the hub FS is in the future?Since the only way to get there is to teleport

[@cloudsora]

I think Easter Egg might be the wrong word but this is a really nice find.

[@justinn5357]

I can explain why it is so dark, Iudex of Gundor failed to meet his maiden. He failed to link the fires in time and so the darkness took over. He was so close, but instead guards firelink from those who are unworthy to beat him. So it is dark because you are in firelink shrine at a time when it was an age of darkness.

[@famvlug]

I like to think that the world of dark souls mirrors our own universe in some way: nothingness (grey)> big bang (first flame, dark souls 1) expands space and time, power shifts between dark energy and normal energy (cycle of light and dark, dark souls 2) > heat death and/or big crunch (back to grey, dark souls 3 or soon after) > quantum event which leads to new big bang (another first flame). So it's a cycle of light and dark within a cycle of grey and coloured. Dark souls 1 should have ended in grey, but gwynn commited the first sin and linked fire to dark. Dark souls 3 has easily curable undeath (weaker link between dark and light) and unkindeled (beings of mass souls who still couldn't link the flame, higher energy cost for rekindling by needing 5 mass souls instead of 1). I kind of think that the world desperately wants to return to grey, so it becomes increasingly difficult to do so.

[@muslimcrusader5987]

Well grey and dark are kinda different. Grey is a state between infinite light and eternal dark. Similar to the Elder Scrolls creation story. Darkness is pure nothingness, whereas greyness is a state between stasis and change, order and chaos.

[@4pfBulmond]

A better argument for saying it is in the past is simply looking at Champion Gundyr boom solved...he is a champion in untended graves, he does not have that black shit on him, he is not a sheath to the coiled sword, reading the description of his armor or halberd, soul (i forget) tells you that he was defeated by an unknown warrior (you), then became a sheath. cemetery of ash, gundyr is a sheath...

[@Exozik]

+Cris tian What I find weird with those time past/future theory is that you just walk to get there. There is no teleportation like in the DS1 DLC where you where brought there via magic stuff.

[@cinconumbercero]

+Exozik What if we are from the future traveling to the past (or present) in the Firelink shrine. Firelink Shrine is not connected to the world while Untended Graves is.

[@Exozik]

cinconumbercero This is a interesting idea. It means that evey NPC we encounters and comes to the shrine does this too. My idea was that the Untended Grave is a previous version of the Firelink Shrine. Another place liked to the Kiln of the first flame but forgotten. Oceiros was the king in charge trying to give birth to a strong child that will be able to link the first flame. As he went mad, his queen who was taking care of unkindled there(from the hidden blessing description), it was abandonned and the Firelink Shrine was build. Even if the king is mad, the first flame still need to be rekindle and each Lord of Cinders need there thrones. This is what I came up with to explain the untended graves.

[@Bumbum_Inspector]

Damn dude good catch.

[@MrJulimano]

I have the feeling that is the oposite , the actual firelink is in the past/future/alternative universe fronteira the game because the only way to get in/out of it is via teleport and you can access the other firelink by walking in

[@sam-ishii8642]

Hmm, that is true. I wish someone would figure this out already lol

[@SirWaffleKnight]

might be a stretch but the area is known as the untended grave and its dark so maybe its a world where the flame was never tended either

[@DGneoseeker1]

I never managed to show Ludleth the eyes. What does he say? The handmaiden will also recognise you if you visit her in the dark shrine AFTER seeing her normally though, so it doesn't really imply which is in the future compared to the other.

[@ViperJoe]

+DGneoseeker1 If you talk to Ludleth after handing the eyes to the Firekeeper, he will basically speak as though he knows exactly what happens when the fire completely fades and that bearing witness to it is precisely what made him strive to become a Lord of Cinder (I think he even specifically states that he became a Lord of his own volition); furthermore, he tells you to make your own choice at the end of the game.

[@kingpin3690]

+Viper Joe I don't think that's Ludleth at all and he was apart of the scheme that got the first fire maiden trapped behind that wall and stopped the Gundyr from waking up on time. The person in the chair may be a soul sucking beast that he got to sit there with brain control and chopped off his legs so he couldn't run.

[@DjangoAsura]

+Kenson Kingpin Honestly I think that it is Ludleth in the chair. I do think he was the Soul devouring beast though. But is that really so bad? I mean what the hell do you think you've been doing all this game? A beast that kills almost indiscriminately to acquire souls to feed its own power sounds remarkably similar to the protagonist in any souls game to me.

[@kingpin3690]

Yea true I didn't think about that fact till i read into it later but I still don't trust Ludleth at all and he's secretly two faced.

[@DjangoAsura]

+Kenson Kingpin True, we don't really know if he willed himself Lord by acquiring souls like us to link the fire or simply fed on souls for his own sake only to be fed to the flame by others like Aldrich was. We only really have his word for it.

[@Torag55]

It explains why it is dark. It is explained in Champion Gundyr's soul I believe. He was an Unkindled, but he woke up at the wrong time, when the Age of Dark happened before he could act like what he was supposed to do. So, in the past, you visited a Firelink Shrine that was in the Age of Dark.

[@YaroslavNechaev]

I doesn't make much sense, unless the time itself doesn't matter in this world. Untended graves are clearly in the alternative future/present, where the fire fades and Gundyr haven't become the Judge for the Unkindled. Or maybe the time/dimensions doesn't matter for her and she is not just an ordinary undead?

[@igoronline]

+Yaroslav Nechaev Yep. It doesn't make sense, but it isn't supposed to. The Dark Souls series is a carbon copy of LOST. It baits you with lots of breadcrumbs that let you speculate about very minor things, while the actual plot is nowhere to be found.

[@nemesis50]

+Yaroslav Nechaev The fact that killing Iudex Gundyr grants you no soul, due to Champion Gundyr being defeated already and his soul being claimed, is also a pretty big clue as to untended graves being in the past.

[@rinkydinky9348]

+Yaroslav Nechaev Actually, the item descriptions imply that the Gudyr we fight in the beginning is simply a weakened, older version of champion Gundyr. He was chained down, and by fighting and killing him in the past, you free'd him. So there he waited, for you to return, in order to bestow upon you the coiled sword, as long ago you proved yourself worthy. His moveset is weaker, and he is blighted by the abyss. Waiting for so long in the dark would undoubtedly allow the abyss to do things to you.

[@MaereJaneMan]

+Yaroslav Nechaev Solaire tells you in Dark Souls 1 that time in Lordran is convoluted, which leads me to believe that the past, present, and future all exist in the same space.

[@xYAFusRoMamaYAx]

"the nature of lordran is murky. . ." -white sign soapstone description, dark souls 3

[@Zirofol]

As an answer to your description I think it's dark there because the fire has died out. In the ending where you summon the firekeeper to let the fire fade, they mention something like small embers will still remain and one day turn greater, meaning the light to the world will eventually return.

[@livioventura2320]

I think untended graves is the present where Prince Lothric hasn't linked the fire, and firelink shrine could be either past or present (even both of them, how the hell is Andre still alive?). People in Firelink Shrine try to link the fire in Lothric age because the Champion Gundyr is late and didn't make it. Perhaps Firelink Shrine is a concentration of all tge ages of Fire, where all the NPC's, from other worlds and timelines can go. Maybe Andre came there directly from Lordran, and the Handmaid directly from Lothric, while the eyes of the first firekeeper could be Irina's or our firekeeper's. Maybe everyone is at one place and time specifically, only when the champion of ash or the chosen undead are there with them.

[@lkurkiril1731]

I'm pretty sure she says that even if u talk to uer when you start but imma check

[@andymangaka]

Maybe the Coiled Sword Iudex Gundyr gives you is a kind of time machine and Cemetery of Ash(including Firelink Shrine) is the only part of the game you are in the present...

[@megadeth887]

+Andy Mangaka i thought about that but then how do you explain npcs you meet coming to the shrine

[@andymangaka]

Think about it: Greirat only explores places where your bonfires are already lit... maybe, they use your bonfires when you meet them(even if it's not shown).

[@megadeth887]

. the unentended graves firelink shrine was for lothric prince who never began his journey as a champion thats why the champion gunder found no fire whatever and became a prisoner

[@Maxaoe]

I think a lot of people dont realise that she is one of the elderly fire keepers from the begining of DS2. The fact that she is only a merchant in DS3 seems a bit odd, considering she was a fire keeper. My thought it that she was taken to firelink by the convergence from drangleic and is now there as a "watchfull gaurdian" in a way. But regaurdless of the theory, there seems to be more to her than just being a merchant...

[@bloodyomen4737]

Its so dark because its an age of dark...

[@lendial]

holy crap, how did you even find this. Not only was the untended grave the past but it also allows you to affect the current time line as evident by her recognizing you. It's too bad you cant use the bonfire to travel the world to see everything during an age of dark.

[@astrangeriremain]

+James Fukumoto *slow clap*

[@GFMarine]

Well time IS convoluted it might also mean that she exists in two planes at once.

[@dankestofsouls]

I think this theory is really good but have you heard about the theory of the first graves, the cemetery of ash, being an illusion like a sort of limbo? I personally prefer it because it seems as though it's a much more friendly walk into a new hell of the world and that's why you have to teleport out like in the nexus or hunter's dream

[@kuwashi]

+Ryan Gafur i personally go with this illusion theory because its literally the only place u warp to and from. Also we do not go through any portal to take us back in time so i don't buy the past theory. I think the place we know as firelink is actually the kiln of the first flame. i say this because when we place all 5 lords back on their thrones, we do not teleport anywhere. The firekeeper just puts the ash on our head and when we stand up we are in the kiln. I think we are still given access to the other firelink purely for gameplay reasons. to be able to level up and buy stuff. thats my view of things anyway. Also this andre is nothing like the real one. He doesn't even agro when the real one would stand up and kick your arse. Also he didn't respawn while this one does.

[@dankestofsouls]

He respawns? Did not know that and this explains everything much better than I did, thanks for typing this out since it even helped me piece it together since I had some loopholes that I couldn't figure out until know

[@kingpin3690]

+Ryan Gafur Its in the future because Iudex Gundyr is there being controlled by the abyss because he stayed there ever since he couldn't link the fire in the past. That's why we don't get his true soul unless we beat him in the past and his soul description says he was beaten by a random champion (us) and stuck the sword into himself for when the bell tolled again to judge the next unkindled. (us) at the beginning of the game.

[@jprec5174]

+John Jensen Andre says he's just a servant. He respawns because he is most likely undead and he was brought there by the flame to help the champion of ash. The blacksmith hammer in the untended grave says its just passed down from blacksmith to blacksmith and perhaps a different smith helped the previous champs.

[@teflonvaughn1470]

+jp preciado What about Yoel's ashes? It's hard to explain why those would be in the past...

[@bonchbonch]

One thing that would contradict it being in the past is that the Hollow's Ashes will appear in Yoel's spot if you abandon the Yuria questline and Yoel dies. They're the same ashes that drop if you kill Yoel.

[@marshallcarpenter2534]

+bonchbonch However, Yoel is one of many hollows of the land of Londor. Any one of them could have served this "woman" as spoken of by the ashes. Yuria also has counterparts that each do as she does, go out in search of the one true lord of hollows. If there was ever one to be found.

[@bonchbonch]

+Marshall Carpenter Well, the ashes only appear once Yoel dies.

[@shinobi_space]

didn't read all comments so sorry if it has been explained but I don't understand one thing here... how could it be in the past, since if you take the serpent ring from our Firelink (hidden place you access from the roof) it is not there in Untended's Firelink (chest opened) yet we know that it's the same ring you receive if you take it in the Untended version. The chest is 100% the SAME. So to me, a time loop or something like that is more understandable than a linear past/future relationship isn't it?

[@joefloyd5766]

The lore i like is that the fire was not linked in the last age and fell to darkness and the abyss but lothric and the crystal sages attempted to make it appear as it had by shrouding the world in an illusion similar to gwendalins

[@Brendan123ization]

Y'all acting like this guy found this. This was on the Shrine Handmaid's fextralife page a week after the game came out..

[@jimoar]

I thought it was obvious that the untended graves were in the past. Considering she says you're there before the bell tolls that wakes the lords of cinder.

[@bonchbonch]

+Jimoar I thought it was clearly in the future--you find Andre's hammer at his location, and you find Yoel's ashes at his location if he dies of natural causes, the same ashes he drops if you kill him. I admit that the shrine handmaiden's hidden dialogue seems to contradict it being in the future, however. Definitely the most mysterious location in the game.

[@jimoar]

+bonchbonch Good point with yoel's ashes. As for Andre's hammer that could be his smithing set-up and he's just not there. Definitely a strange location.

[@megadeth887]

+Jimoar but if its in the past and you take his hammer how will he continue to smith weapons

[@jimoar]

Not to sound snarky but odds are he had more than one hammer. I've been starting to thinks it's like the hunter's dream in bloodborne. In both games the only way to walk to the hub location leads you to a run down version.

[@alexanderlupianez6311]

i thought they were diferent ppl since i killed the one at untended graves and she was still there when i warped back to firelink

[@peircedrosebuds2843]

What helmet is that ik its offtopic but its so cool

[@integ3r]

The Golden Crown, part of the dragonscale set. Buy from the maiden after beating Nameless King.

[@Jaysx3010]

What's new in her dialogues? It seems to me that it is the exact same dialogue than when you speak to her for the first time.

[@Jaysx3010]

Ok, never mind. I found out. A pleasure to make your acquaintance, Ashen One. I am but a humble handmaiden of the shrine. Weapons, armor, trinkets, and spells... I've lots of little things to ease the burden of a weary traveller. ...And yes, I'm Undead, too, but not so charitable as to give my goods away. Ashen One, fetch souls, and bring them to me. As is thy wont, no?" . Oh thou'rt... Oh, no, 'tisn't anything Ashen One. I am but a humble handmaiden of the shrine. Weapons, armor, trinkets, and spells... I've lots of little things to ease the burden of a weary traveller. ...And yes, I'm Undead, too, but not so charitable as to give my goods away. Ashen One, fetch souls, and bring them to me. As is thy wont, no?"

[@evilnick2885]

that was it? I honestly think the untended graves is the future not the past, which is why the sword you placed in the fire at the beginning is now broken and useless lying there. Everyone told me about this maiden egg and said it proves it the past but honestly this tiny piece of dialogue proves nothing.

[@Merica115]

then how come when I kill her at the untended grave she is still at the normal bonfire?

[@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892]

Bryce Brandt because she is an undead, same reason your character comes back from the dead.

[@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892]

Bryce Brandt you can kill her in the normal game as well and she comes back once you load in

[@TheJokerscene]

If untended graves was the past, then why are there souls of andre and other NPCs you interact with there?

[@Rabbit-o-witz]

+TheJokerscene There is no soul of andre, only a hammer... he's a blacksmith, i think he has many hammers

[@TheJokerscene]

Unbreakable Patches But there is one item which will not drop in that world unless an NPC is interacted with first in the other world.

[@Rabbit-o-witz]

Yeah, thats true tho... interesting

[@onefourthcanadian]

+TheJokerscene I mean if times so convoluted that the same place can exist in both past and present in two different places at the same time, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the present can affect the past in the same way that the past can affect the present.

[@onefourthcanadian]

+TheJokerscene especially given the Heros and lands of old converging onto this place thing. If they were Heros of old, then why do they exist now? I think the convelutedness of time and space can make multiple times lines simultaneously possible. For example: say there was a hero who was said two have reached the age of twenty and did all this heroic shit till he was fourty and then died. That is something that actually happened, however the convelutedness caused him to also be enter into the converging place of lords and do shit. Both actually happened, and he exists in two different timelines in the same timeline. My only real evidence for this is that lothric seems to be the only lord who actually exists in this age, all the other lords seem to be legends that you would read about in history books, legends from potentially hundreds if not thousands of years ago. They seem to have lived full lives back then despite existing in their most widely known post-linking-the-fire state.

[@SquareInsider]

I am almost 100% certain the Unattended Graves are an alternate reality in which the bells never tolled and your character allowed the fire to burn out. Either an alternate reality or in the far future AFTER the fire has burnt out. Technically, it could be both, an alternate history in the future where the fire burned out. But it is most certainly not the past.

[@Bobban]

damn thats cool...

[@Suprentus]

How is that an easter egg?

[@MrCouchbleh]

how the fuck did you find this

[@mongrelshadow14]

OHFUCK.

[@4pfBulmond]

lol apparently "oh thour't...oh no, 'tis nothing. ashen one" means she recognizes you? dude that is really pushing it. if anything she realizes that your are not of that world and from another world or time or alternative timeline or whatever but tbh the lore in these games is shit so who cares

[@NotSoSerious69420]

The lore in this games is great it truly has a sense of you actually have to look for it rather than it being pushed down your throat like we gamers have gotten used to, and yea that's pretty good evidence to say the unattended graves is in the past and she remembers you from it but maybe in her age she cannot be sure or she thinks she knows you but decides to think she was mistaken you can't fully remember everything being a undead

[@teflonvaughn1470]

+Aaron Ginn If it was in the past you probably wouldn't find Yoel's ashes considering his death would, according to that theory, take place in the future. The same could probably be said for Andre's hammer and the firekeeper eyes

[@marshallcarpenter2534]

+Teflon Vaughn Yoel is one of many hollows. Those ashes could be one of any of them.

[@teflonvaughn1470]

+Marshall Carpenter Right. In the exact same spot he dies...

[@marshallcarpenter2534]

Teflon Vaughn still does not mean they are his ashes. It is a spot that is out of sight unless one is looking for it. Hollows are considered lesser than dirt and have pretty much always been seen as like that. Many hollows have come and gone from Firelink over the ages. However, those who were not hollow and sought refuge in Firelink most probably hated these beings that seemed to spread like a disease. Hollows like Yoel could have seen the usefulness of such a spot, safe from the outside, and out of mind of those on the inside.

[@GrannySoupLadle]

poop

[@The_Custos]

LORE

[@thefox7149]

ah poor souls.. thinking about some made up game instead of your real problems.. sigh..

[@myspacebarbrokenevermindif9892]

Ah, poor soul, commenting on a video about people thinking about made up video games instead of thinking about your real problems.