Dart 250G Review

[@AndrewNewton]

Thanks for the mention Keith. That's a serious setup you have now.

[@bonafidepirate]

Thanks for taking the time to help when I asked! lol Sometimes just taking a step back and looking at it from a different perspective works wonders! ;) It's a beast of a little plane to get in the air with the CG too far back and not enough power!

[@davidunderwood1907]

So cool. 🤩

[@jcfpv3454]

Andrew you a great person the world needs more people like you

[@PaunFD]

Great review! Covers all the info that i needed for this plane! No doubt that this plane will become my daily driver, so in this way i can leave alone my Canadian friend's videos and i can start do my own long-range videos. Looks like it draws a decent amount of amps on 3S for a decent speed - which will enable me to fly it at some decent ranges even if the wind goes up to 30mph. Thank you for all those info!

[@MarcFPV]

Glad to see that the Horizon drift fix helped you again :) Regarding the rates. I will try to go more into depth here how FF, Servo throws and Rates work together in Airmode. It is still a bit confusing to me. In general the servo throw, that can be limited in the mixer, determines the maximum physical rate in manual mode. Roll and pitch rate in the PID tuning tab is the max rate allowed by the PI Controller. And the FF value determines how much the controller transitions into a manual like mode on high stick deflection and not considering the set PI rates anymore on high FF. Maybe I can do some tests tomorrow when I maiden my High Performance AR wing after rebuild.

[@davidunderwood1907]

It makes me happy when you acknowledge Andrew Newton for his contributions to the hobby. Also liked how you added a slight bit of footage from the ground up at the plane. It was a nice change in perspective. I liked how that part was only about 20 seconds too. Cant believe you went a mile on 5.8G. Divirsity helped I bet..? Another solid review. Ty

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah, Andrew's channel is one of my favorites! I enjoy watching every video he posts! lol I'm sure the diversity helped a bit, it can't hurt... lol The antennas I used on the receiver are not ideal though. I'd been wanting to try linear on the the ground with a linear one in the air for 5.8, it may work better with good antennas but I don't think that patch I used is very optimal. It's just one I had sitting next to the receiver, so I grabbed it. ;) I'll likely change up the antenna on the plane soon for something better as well. I was quite happy with the performance of the video link for the gear I used, and the radio link for flying 2.4 from inside the shed! lol Not to mention how it's all jumbled together in a small area on a small plane.

[@mickelson8332]

At last, you are the first person I've heard actually agree that this is a tricky little wing to get into the air. I have never trashed a plane so many times on launch than I have with this one. Even using rth mode on kopilot it was still pot luck if I had enough throw to get her in the air. Thanks for the tip on adding some elevon offset and a launch mode. I did exactly that and threw her today on stabilised mode with my laugh mode set. She has never taken of so well. I thought it was just me being a noob! Thanks mate, your advice was most helpful, just a shame I hadn't seen it seventeen crashes and three glue sticks ago😂😂. Mick in the UK.

[@MCsCreations]

Pretty nice build, dude! And fantastic flying! 😃 This little wing really seems amazing!

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah it's a great little "grab and go" plane, pretty good fun for something so small! lol

[@subzero674]

Awesome review, thanks! I wish I'd known about the F411-WSE... I have mine almost finished with an F411-WING. It would have been nice to save a few grams.

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah the WSE is a nice replacement for the regular F411-Wing. When the second one arrives I might put it in the AR wing to replace the F411-Wing I have in that one. The regular one works great, but I needed to add additional filters to clean up the video. The smaller footprint and lighter weight are welcomed changes for a model as small as this one too.

[@photonthief]

That transmitter looks super nice! Will be interested to hear what you have to say about it once you have spent some more time with it.

[@rogergravel6638]

Thanks Keith for that great review i am pretty impress with the distance you get with a dipole no glitch can you please tell me wat model of flysky rx you are using i would like to try it with my jumper t16

[@bonafidepirate]

It's the FTr16S, but I don't think it will work with the multiprotocol module in the T16. It uses their new "AFHDS 3" protocol. As far as I know, the only transmitter it will bind with for now is the PL18. That could change, these are fairly new right now.

[@Aarons14bugs]

That dvr footage is so smooth! Is that being recorded through your fancy tx? I mean it looks to be 60fps!?

[@bonafidepirate]

It is 60fps! lol I'm leveraging the power of a GPU in my PC that I record with to do it, here's a video that explains it all: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJjHp2SPmMZsetk FYI, I'm using the GV-USB2 to record this flight, that I bought after I made that video I linked to. It does work well, but it randomly drops frames on occasion. I like the Kworld one I show in that video better. I'll be going back to that one soon.

[@Tenright77]

Nicely done Kent. Pop perfomance dynamics always seem like they are the oppisite of assumtions, on both light aircraft and models. Just my take on it.

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah, once you get away from the "traditional" designs like trainers and 3D aerobats and such, it's kind of a "try it and see what happens" thing... lol I like this little plane though, it has a pretty wide envelope, it slows down nicely, but is perfectly happy flying fast at full throttle. I did some quick stall tests too that I missed when editing the video. It's very gentle, just kind of nods a bit. The light weight no doubt helps there.

[@eeck62]

Great review and also detailed explanation of your operational setup, thank you! Looks like a good little plane!

[@robzFPV000]

Vary informative video buddy. Really enjoy watching Andrew's channel . Just subscribed to yours. Really want this plane but not sure to go Inav or the zohd kopilot. I am kind of a rookie with these things. Mind my asking your thoughts for what would be best for a beginner? Thanks in advance.

[@MrZeek101]

Great Video Keith always a great build Not to shabby distance on reciever what would you change to make it a better wing setup Lol you know bonafide it

[@bonafidepirate]

Hmmm... Maybe make it bigger? lol Seriously though, keeping with the sub-250g thing, I don't know how I'd improve it. If you asked me a month ago to build up a wing this small and light, while keeping a "real" camera and full blown autopilot in it, without sacrificing flight characteristics, I'd laugh and tell you I couldn't do it. If you said I had to do all that, and manage to get a mile of range while stuffing all the electronics into a space not more than 3-4 inches, I'd tell you no one could do it. I guess I would have been wrong! ;)

[@MrZeek101]

@@bonafidepirate lol you built it as good as it could have been done never disappointed in any of your builds cant wait for your review on flysky setup take care

[@RobisonRacing68]

Thats seems a bit larger than my Nano Goblin. I told Andrew that the Dart and my NG fly quite a bit alike I think.

[@bonafidepirate]

I wasn't really sure what to expect from this one, especially not having flown anything similar. It's a neat little plane though. It's light enough to be slow, but sleek and thin enough to go fast. Interestingly, it seems just as much at home either way... lol It's 570mm wingspan, what's the Nano Goblin?

[@davidrc9058]

Great review and discussion of related topics. How many lithium ion cells could you fit in it? Thank You!

[@MochaboyRC]

Hey man great review - Launching in Angle mode will want to level the plane off as soon as you let it out of your hands...maybe try Acro or at least Manual for launches.

[@bonafidepirate]

With the 35% elevator mix, it wants to hold a decent climb in angle mode rather than level.

[@thenatedog]

I remember when i got my crashtesthobby scythe baby wing i had a heck of a time and it turns out i had dialed in too much reflex. There is so little movements on the little wings that it is very easy to overdo it. Because i had so much reflex i was stalling on each launch. But it looked like i was having not enough so i would keep trying more power on launch and bigger props.

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah, This one would nose down at first, and I started sliding the CG back and it only got worse... lol

[@thenatedog]

@@bonafidepirate i would keep dialing in more expo and made it worse

[@flyingdream777]

Hi Keith, would love if you could do a comparison between the Dart 250 and Nano Goblin and let us know your opinion. Also have you any intention to try Open HD ? Regards Bert

[@bonafidepirate]

I don't have the Nano Goblin, or any plans to pick one up... lol Not that I have anything against it, just no need for another airplane really. I guess if they were to send it like ZOHD did this one I'd fly it. ;) I've looked at Open HD, looks like it could be fun to play with, but honestly I don't really have the time to get into it.

[@EnglishTurbines]

Nice review M8, isn't that Camera a Runcam Mini Swift though...?....I was looking at the Logo, and thats a Swift, not a Sparrow...? Fairly certain that black Patch antenna on your VRX is NOT Linear, I also recall the reviews of it were less than kind too....lol.

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah, I get the Sparrow and Swift confused... lol I put a note under the video. The patch I have on there isn't the 14db circular one they make that looks similar with the cover removed, it's the ANT007 that's a lower gain linear one. This one - www.aomway.com/en/product/5-8ghz-6dbi-patch-antenna/ I'm pretty sure it's not the best, or even all that good... lol I just threw on those antennas to try together with the dipole on the vtx. I think I'll try the tripple feed patch array next, even with a bit of polarization loss the gain should still be at least as good or even higher, and I know that's a good antenna. I might even see if I can shoehorn a Pagoda onto the little Dart... lol I'm pretty sure I have one with a uFL connector that should match the vtx.

[@EnglishTurbines]

@@bonafidepirate Sounds like a plan, those tiny Sleeve Dipoles on your vtx are not that good...

[@donphobos]

Can this board handle DSHOT ESC, please? Or only PWM?

[@the_real_foamidable]

As I understand it, when the active ends of the receiver antennas bend in the wind they will be less effective. You might want consider using plastic tubes for them to hold them straight. I believe there was was a video from Sir Bruce a while ago explaining the effect but i can't find it ...

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah it would be ideal to keep the vertical with a rigid tube, but I really wasn't expecting to get any real range with this setup. I just wanted it to fly... lol Now that I've got it in the air I'll optimize it a bit. It's crazy how far the gear we're using has advanced.

[@the_real_foamidable]

​@@bonafidepirate Yea, one has basically plug and play GPS, OSD, stabilization, battery monitoring and long range capabilities on any model for a few bugs. What a great time to be alive. Nice video btw. Keep it up!

[@STOLerant]

You think a 1407 2800kv with a 4" prop would be a good motor/prop selection for this?

[@fcass]

I got one of these and set it up with Kopilot lite. Maiden = corkscrew into ground, broke off nose. Fixed nose and reversed channel, and it flew. However, on 3s, it seems to have way too much power (contrary to your findings ). But from the start I did go with the larger 2 bladed prop. I might consider the smaller prop but yours seems fine with the same battery. So when I launched it with the rtl launch assist, it was ok but it goes full throttle and looks like it's going to blow apart. I had turned down Kopilot gains already but it just doesn't seem to handle the high speed. Even in manual mode. It dips up and down violently lol. Scary. Any ideas ? Thanks. (I happen to have a Mark F722se. Perhaps I should try inav)

[@fcass]

Also, only a few FC mfgs bother to calibrate the current sensor. So id recommend just adjusting it based on what you find.

[@fpvwhubarbrcsquadron9621]

do you know where i can get a motor ,as i bought the kit and cant seem to find the motor for the plane

[@13FPV]

I do like the ground to air video!

[@tonyyeung821]

Have you tried iNav's autolaunch feature? That would be similar to using the pitch channel offset on a switch.

[@bonafidepirate]

No I haven't. I never needed it before, so I never set it up on any of my planes... lol

[@qiangli4022]

Will the stock motor mount accept a 2204 motor?

[@eggyfpv185]

Sorry for bothering, but which camera do you recommend for use on this plane?

[@bonafidepirate]

Any of the micro FPV cameras will work fine on it. I'd suggest the Caddx Ratel, they are a great little camera! The only reason I didn't use one on here is I already have a few others laying around so it didn't make sense to buy one... lol

[@waldemarkraus2855]

Hi, do you use acc imu ignore? Your horizon seems not to drift at all in long terms wich is usually common on inav.

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah, it works very well! The first flight didn't have it, the second flight I had it set to 10. This is the second plane I've used it on and it works very well on both.

[@adrianryan1975]

Brilliant. Love this setup. 👍

[@Aarons14bugs]

Hey I have a very similar setup off the same fc. Would you mind sharing your inav settings for a faster build? (*diff) Thanks

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah I can do that, remind me if I haven't replied again soon. I'll try to remember to get it next time I got out to the shed. It's a pretty standard setup though.

[@bonafidepirate]

Here you go: pastebin.com/b4ciVfgT

[@Aarons14bugs]

Thanks! I just put it together yesterday, maiden soon to follow 👍

[@Aarons14bugs]

Thank you sir! All went and is well! Superfast build!

[@MartijnvanGene]

Keith! Your face! It's on cam!

[@bonafidepirate]

Oh damn, I better hide! lol

[@dalvynegron1938]

Have you tried already the New mini crossbow antenna tracker.?

[@EnglishTurbines]

Flying on 1.2g and an 8dbi Patch antenna means you dont need the added complexity of a tracker.

[@VincentFischer]

Whats the flightcontroller screwed into? directly into the epp? :-O

[@bonafidepirate]

It's flat on the bottom, mounted with mounting tape.

[@VincentFischer]

@@bonafidepirate Thanks, after watching again I don't know where i was seeing a screw. Just gathering ideas how to build mine up, all parts arrived today :). Hope my 3s 2200mah batteries fit

[@bonafidepirate]

@@VincentFischer There are screws that attach the two board with standoffs between, see here: www.mateksys.com/?portfolio=f411-wse#tab-id-1 The bottom is smooth and flat for mounting. You'll have a hard time getting a 3S 2200 in this one! ;)

[@Wastelessplague]

i need HELP i have dart with inav and when ever i enter stabilized flight mode the wings rock back and forth cant figure out help please

[@bonafidepirate]

It sounds like your gains (PIFF) are probably too high. Read about auto-tune and do that in the air, it will tune the PIFF controller up and be flying quite nice... lol

[@Wastelessplague]

@@bonafidepirate i have tried the auto tune already a few times and it does not seem to be helping at all the plane is fine when in pass through

[@bernardgeorge1052]

What gps unit are you using, link please? Great flight. Thanks

[@bonafidepirate]

I have the BN-220 in this one, it's a great little GPS! bit.ly/2PZnQgW

[@RGCbaseace]

Well done sir bp very informative i may try inav in the future but i orderd mine with the zohd kopilot should be here soon

[@bonafidepirate]

Nice! Rumor has it I might have a second Dart 250 on the way with the Kopilot... I want to try it out "stock" and have this one to modify a bit, more than I already did... lol

[@RGCbaseace]

I got mine today very nice well built model but... looks like the pnp version Doesnt repete does not come with the kopilot oh well inav it is i have a few fc boards i think i have a f4v3 also in my quad parts bin kinda hard to test the kopilot with no kopilot I guess only the full fpv verion comes with all the parts minus a batt and charger hmmm looks like ill be doing that inav build sooner than later cant find a zohd kopilot that can be here before Christmas

[@pampfpv]

Can i run it on 4s lipo ?

[@RGCbaseace]

Ok where can a fellow get a cli dump for this plane to compare or maybe a preset

[@bonafidepirate]

Here's a "diff" for iNav 2.2.1 on the Matek F411-WSE pastebin.com/b4ciVfgT

[@FPVREVIEWS]

Should make a catapult capable of launching most of your airplanes, and a rc tow truck to retrieve them after landing. then you would never have to leave your shed!!

[@bonafidepirate]

lol I've considered a catapult before, it would be handy to launch from inside the shed. I should have mentioned in the video here, all the flying was done from inside as usual. That FlySky radio is working better than I expected it to for a stock 2.4 system.

[@skazib5235]

Thx for review, i bought a pnp version for 49.99$, can't wait when it comes :)

[@bonafidepirate]

They are a fun little plane for sure!

[@fcass]

Who had the PNP for sale for $49? That's a lot less then I could find currently. Thanks.

[@skazib5235]

@@fcass That was the banggood promotion, but it was six months ago. Now it is more expensive.

[@RGCbaseace]

Nope to the kopilot seems kinda limited after watching this i ordered that F411-WSE i dont have a problem with inav or soldering hope i can get the vc400 to play nice with it lol Thanks for that video bonafide pirate

[@pampfpv]

@jerry coleman will it run on 4s lipo? ty

[@RGCbaseace]

@@pampfpv i dont think the stock esc can handle 4s

[@pampfpv]

@@RGCbaseace ty man, i'll let you know when i test it, next month maybe.

[@JB-Scooter]

Hey, do you buy the Pnp Version?

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah, this was the PNP with motor, ESC and servos already installed.

[@Steven-er2od]

Wich vtx would u reccomend for 2s because a lot are from7-26 volts but with a li-ion you get below 7v so what would you reccomend?

[@bonafidepirate]

Most of my planes are using 12V transmitter with a regulator that keeps 12V even if the input is below. In a plane this small you don't want all that extra weight though... lol I'd say look for a 5V transmitter, that's what I have in this one. The Runcam TX200, it's powered off the output on the FC, so it should be good down to 2S voltages. That said, I'm running it off 3S so I haven't seen it that low yet... lol

[@Steven-er2od]

@@bonafidepirate thank you think i will go for the eachine one with 400mw

[@bonafidepirate]

@@Steven-er2od A number of people recommended that one when I thought the vtx had died in this build... lol That and the Nameless RC nano that's similar. I haven't used either though.

[@Steven-er2od]

@@bonafidepirate me neither but mine will come in over about 3 weeks because i ordered it yesterday but gonna compare those 2 and look wich one is the best

[@twinturbostang]

Do you have a magnetometer onboard?

[@bonafidepirate]

No, I never use a mag in fixed wing.

[@twinturbostang]

@@bonafidepirate Interesting. I thought they were needed for RTH. But I guess with a wing, it infers heading based on GPS coordinates. BTW, the Vector does have a built-in magnetometer with its GPS sensor.

[@bonafidepirate]

@@twinturbostang Right, the Vector has them, but I always disable it, there's an option in the software. They recommend not using it in fixed wing even... lol An airplane is always moving (unless it's "hovering" in a headwind of even flying backwards... lol) so it gets heading over the ground from GPS. This works better when the plane needs to crab in a crosswind. Using a mag will try to always point the nose to the waypoint, which doesn't always work out. This is from the iNav fixed wing setup page - "If your compass is not 100% properly setup just disable it instead. A calibrated compass can cause orientation drift during flight that may not show up in the configurator (especially built-in ones on your FC). Really consider disabling it unless you need it. INAV uses GPS heading normally, Only on ground before GPS speed has been high enough or if error between GPS heading and compass heading exceed 60deg will it use compass heading" github.com/iNavFlight/inav/wiki/Fixed-wing-guide#step-5-optional-but-recommended

[@twinturbostang]

@@bonafidepirate Good to know. Thanks!

[@deanlord6789]

the little plane that could. what is the weight of that 800mah battery.

[@bonafidepirate]

Hobbyking says 72g, but I haven't actually weighed one to see. That sounds about right though.

[@t0tobi]

great video, thanks

[@bonafidepirate]

You're welcome, thanks for watching! lol

[@TheDroneNerd]

Do you have IG or Facebook ? Would like to add you there.

[@stevefox3763]

software and its functions look very similar to the i10 including the irritating sound effects lol

[@bonafidepirate]

I haven't touched another FlySky radio in years so I can't really compare it to their other offerings... lol Even back then it was some cheap $30 4ch. thing. I think I still have it in a box somewhere! lol I like this radio so far, for traditional LOS flying it would be one of my top picks out of the ones I've used. It's missing a couple of luxuries that I get with OpenTX and have gotten used to when setting up my FPV rigs. lol

[@stevefox3763]

@@bonafidepirate i have one of those cheap i6 radios as a backup of a backup lol, i own a second i10 so id have to break both before being forced to use the i6 again but its there if i need it :) that paladin is very similar to the i10 software wise but the hardware is considerably better than the i10, the gimbals are one example, they are hall effect i believe where is the i10 gimbals are not. i know what you mean about the extras that are missing in the software, there are a few things id like in my i10 that it does not have but they are capable of doing everything we NEED and are just missing some fancy things that would be nice. does the paladin have menus for gps and altitude meters which are not available or have they done away with all that now? There are a number of features that were put into the i10 firmware but the hardware to use it with never materialised lol

[@psychio1234]

Oo

[@FromAboveAndBeyondChannel]

very nice =) plane

[@dalvynegron1938]

Have you tried already the New mini crossbow antenna tracker.?

[@bonafidepirate]

No I haven't, I've actually never flown with a tracker at all.