Why Phase Is Important For Stable Kick & Sub Mix | Minimal-Tech/Techno Kick and Subs from scratch

[@onaucc9899]

Since you're talking about techno here, a little side note from me: Keep in mind that especially for Techno and especially for rumble basses, the phasing is what creates the rumble in the first place. This rumbling "earthquake-like" sound is (usually) made by having many different bass layers, that phase-cancel each other out - creating those huge, insable soundscapes. Usually done by putting reverb on the kicks / subs (yes. really.), some delay and then bouncing them to audio and then layering them up, adding distortion, etc. For an example listen to Virtual Self - Ghost Voices (Raito Remix). Those Techno "basses" are very much atonal, and don't even have a root note, because the phasing destroys any identifable pitch. Now, you still want to have a seperate Bass and Kick in those cases. But when mixing those together, you either don't want them perfectly in phasde, or simply can not phase-align them, because they have no definitive "pitch". I'm talking about this because when i was a beginner, i often thought these priciples are universal, while they really are not. Very nice trick with the distortion. Additionally you can low pass the entire mix to create this "behind closed doors" effect - like you're standing outside of a club or something. That also helps really hearing how the groove of the bassline goes.

[@Gnurklesquimp2]

Rumble bass is still one of the coolest things that for some reason only techno and cinema seem to make use of... doesnt need to be your whole bassline, a kick, tonal bass and rumble bits grooving together is crazy. Great way to have more options with droning bass notes too.

[@cl1xor]

Almost 30 years of making music behind me and never considered phase, really helpful. Also like this more techno-ish sound.

[@xavierf2229]

How were you able to achieve stable low end without turning off the phasing?

[@rynabuns]

@@xavierf2229When I make music digitally I would always consider phase, but when I play the violin it's not an issue so maybe they're talking acoustic

[@jerms9694]

@awardwinningcritique6895bro thanks for this ⭐️

[@qbasowa]

15:00 „unless you wanna make gabber of course” 😂

[@fallenleaf24]

this right here is a master class! perfectly demonstrated! VERY concise & to the point.. You are a spectacular teacher! Buy a Donkey!

[@willdobson79]

Phase is so important in sub and kick relationship in all EDM. For that powerful kick. Great tutorial. (Took me a long time to realise just how important this is... 25+years)

[@Alex_Ouple]

Yes! You have closed all my questions about low end of this style!!! 😊

[@davidpurple3698]

Great video - thanks

[@davidpurple3698]

How to you deal with phase shift with a pitch moving bass? automation ?

[@tpn4781]

I clicked vid bc was looking for new ideas to make kik & sub 808 hit harder (hip hop). I stayed bc the vid is fkn sick! Thumbs up & subbed. I dont make techno but maybe I can learn some cool shit to add to my own productions & mixes.

[@DashGlitch]

Thanks and welcome, I hope so

[@bestkoreanjesus]

Yeah this one going to be good I know it

[@johnnyvandeclit259]

It is exactly one part of what we do in live sound too. Align the subs (big boxes on the ground) and mains (flying speakers left and right). We measure the time réponse of the common frequencies and align them so they add as perfect as possible. Lots of impact energy can be lost just for that.

[@tocompose]

Great sub tips. Super useful!

[@madmanj.official]

this distortion trick is really helpful to hear the groove of the bassline in details. great video!

[@BassFunMusic]

BRO☺♥Nice video

[@lmn8mrml887]

thanks for this one, very very useful and interesting !

[@Dih_s13]

Golden teachings Dash, thanks Master.

[@mattthekat1435]

Glad I found this video. It’s such an uninterruptible low end to enjoy that I have been trying to discover how to make. Thank you!

[@ukaszgowka2349]

Thank you. This was wery pro and usefull.👍

[@piersgitface7210]

Brilliant..... subbed

[@happytreeborders9530]

Nice, I just bought Kick2 and I love it already... I can use it for all the types of music I want to make (PsyAmbient / Ambient / PsyTrance / ?) ... Again, thanks for this full tutorial!

[@degstep9968]

Thank you 👍

[@bartomiejmazur4419]

Thank you so much for this lesson I would like to see more content about Minimal , Psytech

[@dalienie]

Really helpful stuff man!

[@DesmondOfficialNL]

good one

[@musicforthemind3421]

I do all this in Shaperbox 3. On EVER tune I make

[@Italliving]

Nice one Dash Very nice, To the point

[@stefanengel4714]

One simply way to get around the phase issue problem ist to create an audio file of the Kick and the bass combined and to use this as my Kick-bass. This is basically what you do when you put the phase randomization to Zero. I sometimes just watch your videos, because it is quite entertaining. I found your Minimal Techno interpretation not very Robert-Hood-like but more psy-trancey. It still sounds very groovey though.

[@isaacnewtech]

nice, thanks. That Kick2 plugin seems nice, going to try it out I think. Way better to sculpt your kick than to try 142 kick samples

[@marcus268]

Purrfect time to show this off, i use accent pitch basses in my current track, so this is a welcome additon, to improve on the overall concept. I use shaperbox which has a build in oscilloscope. Its also perfect as LFO tool replacement. (And has a side chain input, to visualize the 2nd input. )

[@CostasCh]

Hey cool rhythms!

[@midierror]

Great video man!

[@jb2691]

This is the best kick and bass relationship video I've seen, thanks man :)

[@DashGlitch]

Thank you!

[@chriswftdj]

Great vid... seems if though kick 2 is an essential, you could argue

[@reecemackrill]

Yessir!!!! Epic Epic Epic knowledge brother!!!

[@fallenleaf24]

I really need to get the Phoscyon!

[@keithlow3056]

Great tune and advice. Look forward to putting that into practice as I enjoy making minimal

[@DJBryanDavid]

Fack!!! I’ve been circling around for years trying to dial this in and while I’ve been close this put me exactly where I wanted to be. This is probably the best tutorial for what I needed specifically using some of the same tools I lol using. Specifically the kick 2 parts because I always struggle with its loudness and overall impact after adjusting the clicks, length etc. Thank you so much man! You’re a gem🔥🖤

[@casadeferro]

You fucking nailed it! ❤

[@ILLUMINATI_CARTEL]

yesss love it !!! please more of this content in this genre 💜

[@fromherebeyond]

For me this video is one of the most eye opening and perspective shifting ones I've ever seen. Thanks so much for it 🥳

[@stephenredding31]

really really cool! thanks Dash - love the minimal tech sound : ) cheers!

[@nomadjames]

Good stuff. Like that Schulz audio oscilloscope and you gave me some really useful insight into Kick2.

[@ixma3904]

This is insane knowledge for free thank you! This is amazing

[@flow.3411]

great Video! exactly what i needed.🤠 this Tiopic keeps me occupied since a long Time now..Watched a Ton of Videos but never solved it to my Satisfaction.. in here i found all the Infos i was looking for and even a lot i did not know or considered yet..you summed it up perfectly. - thank you very very much😘 please do more vids like this ..- i mean "off topic" from "standard" psy trance.. i think i will resubscribe to your Patreon..if anybody.. you definetly earn it🤘🏻💪🏻and yes i totally love this minimal tech type of Stuff..🤪

[@udionarchy]

I've heard this Sound a lot in the latest Album of Perfect Stranger. I asked myself how to do that sound. Thx

[@adamarmstrong9408]

Such a great technique especially for techno ,im going to try this tonight

[@jerefreeman2488]

Great explanation, so much easier to understand this technique now. Thanks

[@tegan333]

Great sub tutorial!

[@DrakDeth]

insanely helpful

[@Zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap]

Funny how I've came back to some Zenonesque type stuff lately and that you release a tutorial which covers that specific topic. I've been listening to Luis M tracks and Fingernail Compost from Bill between some more classy stuff (Matilda Mann and Miguel Atwood Fergusson) and got my hands onto something sweet and groovy again. We must share something Dash, could be the aliens👍 Merci ! Time to work!

[@G.Faustini]

Excelente tutorial. Muito obrigado.

[@sneakyalien101]

Absolutely superb tutorial.!!!!!!

[@MrRexBaron]

man, what a great video, thank you for sharing your wisdom! game changer

[@lightconstruct]

Love these details, keep em comin'! I'm totally cool with the tech or techno direction. If possible more psy-techno pls. :)

[@cryptout]

Very nice tutorial Dash!

[@FromFallToFlight]

thanks Dash

[@marceloribeirosimoes8959]

Niiiice sound, as always!

[@thinkinsounds]

many thanks kind sir! 🙏

[@Lorichs]

Sounds awesome

[@ErikEkholm]

Pretty standard techniques, but not that well know among others than professional producers. Good job 👍

[@JoshTenMusic]

Great video! I was just thinking, changing the volume of the downbeat sub notes from the others is a cool idea but having them on separate synths makes it harder to prevent the notes from phasing with one another (assuming the envelope has some release). I'd probably just use the note velocity for safety. Otherwise it's a great surgical process :)

[@Maplefoxx-vl2ew]

neat, i just got sub ninja time to try this out. someone gifted me the plugin, it's very similar to the one you're using in this video

[@zm4270]

Super useful video! Thank you for sharing 😉 (Side note: I still have the same limited edition Novation keyboard just like yours😁)

[@DashGlitch]

mines recently started packing up, random dead pixels and some keys don't fire a stable velocity. It saddens me because they don't make them like that anymore, I just don't wanna can it

[@zm4270]

Yeah I know the feeling. Sucks to get rid of good tech/hardware just because of minor problems. I was gonna suggest to look for a used/parts only option and use parts out of that. But its probably near impossible to find these knocking about as they are old hardware... @@DashGlitch

[@malaclypse1409]

So helpful, thank you very much! Would love to know your thoughts on KickDrum by Audija.

[@DashGlitch]

it looks great, I haven't grabbed it yet but I certainly will in the near future

[@BukezFinezt]

Great video!! The only thing which bothers me when I was listening to this video was the lowend hum on your vocal whenever you talked. Noisefloor or something. Please add a HIghpass in the future :D

[@DashGlitch]

weird there is an LPF at 90hz and a noise-gate, both on the input, seems to be fine for me on headphones and monitors, I will look again

[@andivax]

Thank you, Dash! Your tutorz are very inspired! Do you want your kick should be 1/4 bar in lenght? Or it is always "by ear"?

[@DashGlitch]

Wow Andi, same to you! You were one of the OG's! I usually go by ear but it often ends in Psytrance with a bit longer kick (almost 1/2 beat in size) but with this more minimal genre's where I use a separate Sub instance, then I like a short snappy kick because it opens a lot of space for the shape of the sub to be controlled

[@juschu85]

17:05 And that's the problem. Or just "problem" depending on your perspective. You can't "just" change the note of the sub. With techno, that might work most of the times. But even in techno, sometimes that's a limiting factor you don't want. Fortunately, Bitwig has the device Note Receiver. I would have to sit down for a while to figure out how exactly, but that device should help you make the kick's pitch automatically follow the note the sub is playing. Depending on how the kick synth is reacting to a change of the note, especially the envelopes, it might be a good idea to resample the kick first.

[@juschu85]

Something that also could be a problem with this: The signal from the note coming from the sub might come one tick to late. So the kick note just started and the note number is already sent. So you might want to modulate the pitch in the sampler instead of manipulating the note itself with a midi device. That would still work (really really) shortly after the note on message.

[@DashGlitch]

in my experience you want a static pitch for the kick, if you want to change the notes of the sub, just do it on the last of the 1/8th part of the 1/4 and there will be no issue.

[@va941]

Leeeetttsssss gggoooooooo❤❤❤

[@apexmusic7500]

Great tutorial and first time I understand kick and bass phase, so thanks! I wonder: couldn’t you also make the kick just longer so it is waveform is as long as the sub? What’s the difference when separating these in kick and sub?

[@DashGlitch]

Sure you can, but this way you can easier control the groove of the bass

[@Gnurklesquimp2]

For techno and stuff, are there any synths specialized for patches that create the kick and bass from one morphing oscilator? That could be kind of a nice workflow. Also cool for punchy basses in dnb etc., id imagine

[@astrobearmusic1977]

This type of precision makes me wonder why we don’t just make one patch that does both jobs. Given your wizard level skills in phase plant I would guess you have done this before. Maybe there is some reason you prefer to layer a kick and a bass rather than make one kick/sub patch?

[@DashGlitch]

Easier to groove it if you have midi control over just the sub :) also Phase Plant is immense and one of the best software synths out there, but it's not 100% sample accurate with very sharp modulations, which the kick is. I mean it sounds good but it's not 100% repeatable if that makes sense.

[@Intergalacticjack]

@@DashGlitch it makes sense my bro. thanks for everything.

[@Ilddans13]

Hi! Thank you for this great video! I am following along, and have a question about the sub basses: Is it only the sine wave making the sound? No saturation, no filtering, no nothing, other then the sine wave in the finished result in this video? Its like I can hear your sub bass clearer then the copy I am making somehow... Thanks!

[@DashGlitch]

It's just the clean sine wave, I think the most important thing is the balance in the mix, for that I use a reference track and A/B to test the volume, but otherwise it's usually just a clean sine, yes

[@Ilddans13]

Thank you! @@DashGlitch

[@DuneArchitect]

Any alternatives to that mega oscilloscope? I find it's interface not exceptional and it's so expensive

[@DashGlitch]

try sub ninja, it's free for february with the code "DASHGLITCH" :D

[@noneya5370]

would signalizer work the free scope vst

[@DashGlitch]

yea

[@MrBrownAlliance]

is the sub on the kick a creative decision ie the 'bassline pattern' or are you using it to re-enforce the kick itself?

[@DashGlitch]

Both

[@MrBrownAlliance]

@@DashGlitch if your bass pattern has no kick bass note, not necessary?

[@TheManfrompack]

Great woork! How do you make a sub like that?

[@DashGlitch]

a sine wave

[@matthiasmajor8878]

Hello Dash! Thanks for that video, it is really inspiring! However, i have a question, how look a situation, when root note of a sub changes in time? (to fit subs to chord progression of song) Thanks in advance! Cheers

[@DashGlitch]

that's why we separate the on-kick and off-kick sub, the off-kick can change because there is no interaction in phase.

[@matthiasmajor8878]

@@DashGlitch Thanks for answering me, i really appreciate that. However, i will try to change only notes from off subb, and on subb will stay the same note, during whole chord progression, hope that will work.

[@Xstatic1975]

How do you deal with phase relations if you have different bass notes (following a chord progression)? Only match with the bass root note?

[@subschnee4573]

Lots of music in this genre does use only one note for bass.

[@TheChameleon2008]

@@subschnee4573 Im a total newb when it comes to making music so this trick mainly for fast paced music to have everything in harmonics? So with different genres of music this would be a issue? It seems lots of work :(

[@subschnee4573]

@@TheChameleon2008 Don't let yourself get disencouraged by some content in the interwebs. This here is a useful technique if you want to create a super polished sound with very spare elements. And as soon you change the pitch of the kick or bass you're messing this phase relation up because this is going to alter the frequency. Enjoy yourself doing music!

[@jimlampshady]

Interesting approach, but isn't it simpler just to use the kick to duck the sub in a compressor?

[@jimlampshady]

Ah. You do it with the bass later in the vid.

[@potsandjacks]

My pilosiphy is to NEVER use a tuned kick.Tuned kicks creat phase issues. Only use the kick that's tone has the correct vibe for the track.

[@DashGlitch]

Understanding what the "phase issue" is is far more fundamentally transferrable. I like to understand the physics of why something happens rather than just limit myself to 1 set of kick samples.

[@potsandjacks]

@@DashGlitch i use eurorack to generate my kicks or use a sample if needed. I just don’t intentionally use an in tune kick. The more out of tune to kick is the less it will influence the phase of the bass.

[@chriswftdj]

Hi Dash, i maybe missing something but, how come you use the note transpone, and not just start the sub on F1 in the first place? Im sure ofcourse there is a valid reason.

[@DashGlitch]

It's easier to memorize notes in C and riff in C, so I write in C and transpose. Even simple stuff like this, because it will undoubtedly expand

[@chriswftdj]

Thanks for the swift response, makes alot of sense.

[@jvaddison]

WTF OMG.... Dash, Have you stopped using cubase, If so, Why?

[@DashGlitch]

Yea dude, almost 2 years ago now. Cubase is dead in the water, there have been no significant updates since I stopped using it, and several of the same bugs are still present. In less than 2 years in Bitwig, there have been more updates and new features than almost a decade of prior Cubase use.

[@sindromerecords6667]

Are those yellow speakers emes?

[@DashGlitch]

Yea!

[@tkanderson-antwerp]

maybe already asked. Wich oscilloscope do you use ? free one ? kind regards .

[@DashGlitch]

Check out Sub Ninja its free this month using the code "DASHGLITCH" but this one I generally use is OszillosMegaScope

[@Intergalacticjack]

boss, thank you dude!@@DashGlitch

[@milkyway8353]

what if sub change pitch/note for more musical subs? how do you sidechain kick then, because 100% of time it will be misaligned

[@DashGlitch]

keep the on-kick sub at the root note

[@milkyway8353]

@@DashGlitch yeah that works, but just tried with kick2/serum, and it it possible with right kick, but sub notes which are not in root key are a bit quieter, so boosting volume a bit could work good. Thanks man

[@Spithonio]

My good man Dash,or anyone else who can help,Oczilo Mega Scope since a major paid update about a year ago does NOT show anymore any other channel but the one it's running in. This makes it useless and it's such pity.What is it I don't see here?

[@DashGlitch]

That's just not true, I've been using it this whole time and haven't had a day of issues. Try reinstall or contact support, because that's a bug

[@Spithonio]

@@DashGlitch Thank you for your reply,I see that's not "true" because there's nobody else having this issue but that made me believe I was doing something wrong or overlooked something.I'll do that,Thanx again :)

[@beatcreator8915]

What monitors and sound card do you use?

[@DashGlitch]

RME ufx2 and Emes quartz

[@beatcreator8915]

@@DashGlitch nice! And thanks for u comment! I love ur channel

[@modetechno7728]

Change the note of the sub and tell me what happens!

[@DashGlitch]

as I mentioned in the video, I use 2 bass instruments, 1 that's always on the kick or within the first 2 1/16ths, and another one where the note changes etc. Makes it easy to align that way.

[@modetechno7728]

@@DashGlitch yeah but if you want to make chord changes each bar it won't work out the way you're demoing. I'm not saying it's not good advice though. Just won't work in every context

[@forse.music96]

You can use velocity for modulation phase bass.😊😊😊

[@thundermonk8180]

why would you use transpose map and not just put the midi notes on the note you want?

[@DashGlitch]

It's easier to write grooves in a scale that I know, this is just a simple example but it almost always goes somewhere and hitting a brickwall and having to look up scales will kill the flow

[@VentureNW]

@@DashGlitch White keys are king! haha. Totally agree

[@thundermonk8180]

wow i never considered that, great idea! @@DashGlitch

[@billyolsson3340]

i love u man but pls can u talk in normal speed :))

[@DashGlitch]

This is the normal speed at which I talk. Slow the video down if you're struggling, that's what it's there for :)

[@billyolsson3340]

@@DashGlitch So u want me to listen to the music and samples in slow motion too? Great logic :) Try lil less ADHD meds and more Reishi/ashwagandha so your speed gets back to normal :)

[@themusiclab2621]

Is this daw studio one?

[@DashGlitch]

This is Bitwig Studio

[@themusiclab2621]

@@DashGlitch How good is it? im thinking about changing daw's

[@DashGlitch]

Ofcourse I will be a bit biased but I think it's the best. I used Cubase for a decade before switching to Bitwig, and it was a breath of fresh air.

[@dr.feather4860]

Thank you, i so wish you showed us the mid bass process, isee you cutlow end but is there any phase alignment between the sub bass and mid bass?

[@DashGlitch]

No phase alignment needed because the low-end was removed. The mid bass no longer has the fundamental which would clash with the phase of other low-end elements. Like I said, the reason I use Phoscyon for this kinda thing, it's just insta-win, just slap it on and it almost always works. Just a bit of EQ and you off to the races

[@normdurkin6425]

imagine thinking digital kicks are the end-all of kicks.. pick up some analog kicks you won't be disappointed...

[@DashGlitch]

Yea I got a ton, and make my own too, they're all mostly sine-waves and this theory still does apply

[@normdurkin6425]

@@DashGlitch ..I have or have had nearly everything.. my favorite two are by the same gentleman who few know about and is absolutely genius Richard O.. the RiDrum TK-09 and TK-01.. the best 808ish kick for the size and price is the Blue Lantern Modules Asteroid BD version 4..

[@mladenorsolic370]

All i hear si 'particular' or 'peticular' ...

[@DashGlitch]

Have you tried seeing an ear doctor? :D

[@mladenorsolic370]

@@DashGlitch no, not in particular :p

[@starkid9736]

befor music was perfect music was perfect why buy wonky anolog organic emulated softgear or hardwear to just dewonky it in the process there is a point when it becomes overdone (EQed to death, Compressed till there is no real decay behavior) say no to perfect sameness and producing becomes fun again (happy mistake) just listen to old: motown, detroit techno, jazz, early sample HIP HOP, early Hardcore, D&B and than listen to modern "perfect" whatever (feel the sterilness) ur welcom i like to help

[@DashGlitch]

This is a sine-wave, no processing. Understanding the fundamentals was a thing back then too.

[@subschnee4573]

Sharing you sentiment. I thought for a second about how I could calculate phase alignment with - lets say - the sound on the Machinedrum. Or even with modual. For a second. Each to their cup of tea but certainly not mine.