Date rape drugs: Facts vs. myths explained | FACTUAL FEMINIST

[@girlwriteswhat]

IMO, the appeal of the "date rape drug" scenario is one of complete absolution of personal responsibility on the part of the victim. When a woman, of her own volition, consumes so much alcohol that she exposes herself to the risk of being victimized by a predator...well, there's that pesky "her own volition" thing there. This is not quite the same as a case where a woman failed to be careful enough to keep track of her drink. Even if careless, her actions in consuming the roofied drink are explicitly unintentional, whereas if she just got so shitfaced she ended up in a semi-conscious stupor, well, that WAS intentional, wasn't it? Even if a man was constantly refilling her glass and encouraging her to drink with the intention of victimizing her, it was *her choice* to keep drinking, and she did so of her own volition. There's a funny thing about traumatic incidents. The first person to "blame the victim" is typically the victim, and this is for a good reason. If, say, I was walking along a hiking path with my kids, and let them run ahead and out of sight, and one of them was attacked by a cougar (cougars are not uncommon where I used to live, and neither were bears and wolves), once the crisis was over one way or the other, my brain would try its best to force me to learn a lesson from it. This is normal and healthy--it is a programmed response that exists so that we can adjust our behavior so that such a thing doesn't happen again. In the above case, I will be asking myself, "what did I do wrong? Were we making too much noise? Did I miss the posted signs that said cougars had been recently sighted in the area? If I saw them, did I choose to ignore them? Why did I let my kids run forward on the path until they were out of sight? Did I take every precaution to educate myself and my kids of the dangers of being out in the bush? If I had been more careful and educated myself and my kids, could this have been avoided? If I am more careful in the future, can I keep my kids safe when we're in the bush?" These are painful questions. If the attack resulted in the death of my child, they will be all the more painful (yet all the more necessary, according to my brain), and all the more difficult to face. They will be accompanied by feelings of intense guilt, if the answers indicate that I could have prevented the incident, had I only done things properly. If I am unwilling or reluctant to face those negative emotions, I might say to myself that the posters announcing that cougars had been sighted along the trail for the last month were not big enough, or not posted in the right places, or didn't adequately convey the level of risk. I might convince myself that had the Parks Service only notified the public through TV and radio that I'd not have taken my kids hiking in the first place. I might tell myself that there weren't enough educational materials available to amateur hikers. I might do anything in my power to tell myself that there was nothing I could have done to prevent what happened. I might try to blame the Parks Service and local Conservation Officers for failing to protect my children. Taking responsibility for your part in things is very difficult and painful after a traumatic event, and because it is so difficult and painful, and because our brains NEED us to explore the questions until they are resolved, I think there is a tendency for victims to latch onto any plausible scenario that might absolve them of any and all responsibility. It wasn't that I carelessly let my children run ahead despite all the warning signs and what I know about the bush--it was that the signs weren't big enough, or weren't posted where I could see them. It wasn't that I voluntarily drank myself to the point of incapacitation, it was that someone slipped a roofie into my drink. Of course, the really awful thing about this is that you sacrifice your feelings of autonomy and safety in return for this false absolution. Because if there was nothing you could have done to prevent being victimized, then there's nothing you can ever do to prevent it from happening again. Anyway, that's what I think is really behind the prevalence of the "roofie myth".

[@The_Killah29]

Brilliant. Just brilliant.

[@CW257866]

"Even if a man was constantly refilling her glass and encouraging her to drink with the intention of victimizing her, it was her choice to keep drinking, and she did so of her own volition." Naw, I can't take it that far. It sounds too much like the guy trying to victimize her isn't at all to blame. And we all know that alcohol impairs judgement. And some people are more susceptible to peer-pressure, especially while under the influence. If a child or a mentally disable person can be exploited, I'm not sure why it isn't considered an exploit if it happens to an intoxicated or emotionally weak person. Now, if a woman got shitfaced and had regrettable sex without any coercion, then yeah, she should take that as a learning experience. Now, it's incredibly difficult to prove either way. And out of everything to be controlled in the world, you only have mastery over yourself. I certainly think that people should take responsibility for putting themselves in risky situations, but that doesn't give a free pass to anyone who would take advantage of those who expose weakness. Many places would track down and kill that cougar that mauled the kids regardless of the irresponsibility of the parent.

[@DJBremen]

Start making videos again.

[@afriedli]

CW AtWork "If a child or a mentally disable person can be exploited" So, basically, women should be regarded as the same as children or mentally disabled people? We don't allow children or mentally disabled people to make decisions for themselves because they don't have the requisite level of mental or emotional competence to protect themselves from exploitation (or from a multitude of other potential mishaps.) But this is exactly the line of reasoning followed in places like Saudi where a woman will always be under the protection of her father, husband, brother, or other close male relative.

[@CW257866]

aporiac I think men are just as capable of becoming disabled through intoxication. The difference between normally-functioning adults and children/mentally disabled is that the the impairment to the normally-functioning adults is temporary. So it has little-to-nothing to do with why Saudi Arabia keep their women under male-control. Although this might have alot to do with why alcohol is banned in Islam.

[@pudgywudgy7111]

Don't get black out drunk. This is advice to both men and women.

[@pudgywudgy7111]

No. Rape. Rape while sober and rape sober people. Thats the best kind of rape... duh!

[@nataliechrystal9974]

You can have one glass of soft drink and all of a sudden you are in danger. Men who rape,don't do it once,these drugs are the perfect companion for them to make it alot easier to do the rape,not leave alot of evidence behind and have the victim recall only bits and pieces of what happened.

[@danfield6030]

I'll get black out drunk anytime I want man ! Don't boss me around ....lol. I've never done anything I have regretted while black out drunk.

[@bigbluebuttonman1137]

"This is advice to both men and women." Seriously. There are Handsy Joes and Handsy Janes alike looking for the most dead drunk guy or gal to have their way with.

[@femalewoman7441]

Or don't rape, simple as that

[@SelenaC_anime]

But I do think precautions are necessary, not paranoia.

[@TheNanoAlcatraz]

Paranoia is precaution against something that is very unlikely to happen.

[@Loathomar]

Isn't precaution without reason paranoia? I mean you take the precaution because of fear and if that fear is not basic in facts. If you are living in fear of people because of a myth, that would be the definition of paranoia; ei - suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification.

[@II-nr7zq]

Van Hohenheim Do you believe in knowing your drinking limit?

[@waltergeorge9617]

Paranoia is survival instincts. Stop down playing it. Tell this NONSENSE, to all the past victims ....

[@waltergeorge9617]

Precautions are Survival instincts in a dangerous environment.

[@DorianGrayClampitt]

It also makes getting drunk beyond control more acceptable. Drinking doesn't lead to bad things, evil drugs do.

[@Maldito011316]

Drinking doesn't lead to bad things, evil drugs (like alcohol) do. Gotta love my fruit juice.

[@amoore1568]

Crime leads to evil things. Stop committing crimes!

[@SelenaC_anime]

Solution: No alcohol for me ever

[@leotamer5]

Good, you probably have more kidneys this way.

[@Maldito011316]

Solution: Moderate yourself on alcohol consumption, like ***** over here. A glass of wine or an occasional shot is even healthy according to research.

[@smepic1239]

better solution carry a taser, pepperspray, knife or gun

[@CherisseRaghoo]

your drink can still be spiked by a tasteless drug even if it isn't an alcohol beverage

[@somuchfortalent]

I've been drugging myself every night I go out drinking and still haven't managed to get raped. Am I doing it wrong?

[@lazaruslongnl9046]

But wait! Maybe you have, and you just don't remember it! Ah HA!

[@somuchfortalent]

I hope so. All I've been hearing about recently is rape, rape, rape. It's starting to impact my self-esteem in a negative way. I keep asking myself: Why not me? Am I not pretty enough?

[@lazaruslongnl9046]

Maybe you are too pretty? Honestly, i had a fight with a woman who also claimed drug induced sexual assault, when i asked her how long she was their, she said "Two hours, tops". Then i asked "After how many drinks did you realize they where drugging you." She says "5, no .. 6? Yeah, 5! drinks!". You understand i soiled my self laughing at that point, yes?

[@leonader9465]

@@Defeshh What makes you think that?

[@Aaron.Reichert]

My brother actually got roofied once. He's somebody who can drink a lot and still be fairly functional and he ended up not remembering his night after 3 beers. He found no evidence of any sort of sex happening that night and he found no evidence of any missing money. So the whole thing is rather confusing. All he knows is he drank a couple beers was acting very drunk went home and fell asleep.

[@skinflutey]

Another possibility is that he didn't eat anything that day.

[@olivierdastein2604]

I've known plenty of people who had black outs. If he doesn't remember his night, he can't remember how much he drank during that night. That his memory is blank after the third beer doesn't mean that he didn't have a dozen more beers, followed by another dozen of hard liquors. Unless he was followed by someone who can testify that he didn't have more than three beers, I would definitely not believe him, if only because he can't know. A black out doesn't mean that you don't know what you're doing on the moment. It means that you don't remember it later. You wake up with no memory of what you've done past a certain point. But during that night, you act normally...well...normally for an increasingly drunk person. For instance, I had long a long conversation early in the evening (when he had only begun to drink) and later on met again and brought back home (when he was then totally wasted) someone who didn't have any memory of having seen me the next day (or anything else from this night for that matter). If you had relied on his memory rather than on mine, you would have believed that he had hardly drunk anything. But in fact, he didn't even remember our first encounter, even though he wasn't very drunk at this point. The difference with your brother is that he was a chronic alcoholic, and this wasn't his first (or his last) black out. Even though he couldn't remember it, he knew that it was the result of heavy drinking. I think that it's highly likely to be what happened to your brother (especially since nobody took advantage of him. Why drug him, then?) and in fact I think that it's also the cause of most stories of "roofing". People who aren't accustomed to blacking out and, having no memory of how much and for how long they actually drunk, assume that something else happened.

[@Aaron.Reichert]

@@olivierdastein2604 Wow you made a lot of assumptions without nearly enough evidence. I'm not saying your conclusions were incorrect but there are a lot of assumptions baked into your analysis. Like for instance the number of beers is almost guaranteed to be correct. However, I could see where you could assume that it wasn't.

[@KristinaSandnes]

It happened to me in a small town at a home-party, so I think everyone should be careful. We shouldn't think "ah, it doesn't happen to everyone", we should think "it CAN happen, I should be careful"; HOWEVER, we don't have to be scared all the time. :)

[@danil.6667]

Agree. It only takes one person's story to get me on guard, but you're right; no need to be overly paranoid.

[@danil.6667]

@Justme - That's so heartbreaking. I'm so sorry. :(

[@zizi8539]

Kristina Sandnes word

[@lilashearjoy]

But was it confirmed with testing that it was a date rape drug? The whole point of this is that the drug isn't needed if you're willing to drink to excess.

[@JDahl-sj5lk]

Kristina Sandnes Ok, I also know women who says this has happened to them. And since your name sounds Scandinavian and I live in Norway we might be a little over represented, idk, thats really besides the point. What I do ponder however, is a girlfriend of mine that has been drugged not one but two times. And sure, it could perfectly well have happened, but here's the story; 1) first time she was 15, she took the drugs (speed, rohypnol and maybe something more) voluntarily and ended up being held for over 24 hours by the guy. He might not even have thought he raped her, as he afterwards wanted money for the drugs. She managed to scare him off after that by having a friend help her (he did not know about the rape, only that the guy was a creep), and scared the asshole off. That's story 1 and the guy (which was a lot older) was in my mind an obvious predator (and drug addict), and just basically scum. I do not doubt it happened the way she said it happened. And she blamed herself mostly and never pressed charges. Story 2; While being out drinking, she had barely had anything to drink before she felt VERY intoxicated. She managed to say "do NOT leave me" to a friend and remember nothing after that. But nothing happened since the friend never did leave her alone. So... Story 2. Was she drugged? She thinks so. And she's used drugs before, so she should know right? I'm not 100% sure. Maybe she was. Or maybe she got insanely low blood sugar or some reaction to the alcohol. Yes that sounds stupid. But, that has happened to me. I know 100% certain I wasn't drugged (who would drug a man anyway... Don't answer that! Lol) and I felt like I was. My point being, with alcohol (and any drug) you sometimes get what's called a "paradoxical reaction". Usually that means a sleeping drug will make you awake, or vice versa, but it also applies here. While I'm not going to say "no this didn't happen", I am open to the possibility that strange, paradoxical reactions can explain at least some of the instances where people think they have been drugged. Not just because I've read that in the literature, but because I've felt drugged myself (both with and without alcohol, but only one time, with alcohol it was really strong), so by extension; couldn't it also have happened to others? I was never afraid of being drugged, so I never thought anyone actually had drugged me. I just felt very strange. But if I had been afraid of being drugged, I probably would have thought I was. I'm not trying to belittle anyone's experience here, just my own experience and hypothesis of what some of these instances might be about. And if you look at story 1 vs story 2 regarding my GF, in story 1 she actually was raped. In story 2 she never was. She felt drugged and went home. Hope I made some sense there. Ranting a bit.

[@oberhofedavi]

Despite this, I still think the threat of date-rape drugs is very real. I've known several people who have had their drink spiked, but not been taken advantage of simply because they were with their friends who kept a close eye on them. Hell, I even know a man who was drugged because he finished of the last half of a drink that his girlfriend didn't want anymore. Not only that but there are some sick fucks out there who find it funny simply to spike people's drinks and see what happens, even if you don't get raped, that's still a pretty shitty experience to have. Even as a man, I keep a close eye on my drink in unfamiliar settings, better to be safe than sorry.

[@scottn322]

I'm sure that the cases are inflated, but it does happen. About a month ago a very close friend of mine went through this; she even came over to my house in hysterics. I thought she was drunk, my girlfriend and I tried to get her to sleep it off on our couch, but she left after we laid down. It turns out that she wasn't even drunk at all, but that they found drugs in her system. They did a rape kit and she was absolutely raped, it was... Horrific, to say the least. If anything, seeing someone go through it first-hand makes me glad the statistics are inflated. I don't want anyone to ever go through that.

[@bigbluebuttonman1137]

I don't think we should inflate the statistics. I do think the exact situations should be brought to attention, though.

[@maryluwhittle6366]

I don't think they're inflated. They're underreported.

[@scottn322]

@@maryluwhittle6366 I think that is what i meant to type, haha, I don't know why I wrote inflated, doesn't even make sense to what I said.

[@veronicapitt4451]

This does happen! It happened to me. I had one glass of wine. Nothing else. No drugs, no liquor, no weed. I became ill, losing time, passing out next to a toilet,and later, immoble. Paralyzed, not able to speak, and being taken advantage of. Don't be fooled. This does happen. Be careful.

[@fatcatontario]

I am so sorry to hear that this happened to you. It happened to me on Saturday and I was missing for 3 hours after the bar closed with no recollection of what happened. What steps did you take after the occurence? I am at a loss. Still in shock.

[@GoldCoast85]

Bullshit

[@WrenSarrow]

Could you include some facts about rape? Like recent research that concludes that 1 out of 10 men routinely rapes? That a drunk woman cannot give consent, so a man having sex with a drunk woman is often rape, and rapists seek drunk women? Instead you show these pictures of obviously drunk women without any commentary on the predatory nature of rapists in that situation!! This seems less an effort to help women than to say, "Don't worry your pretty heads about sexual assault, ladies." This is a disservice to men too, who are getting the message that drunk women can be raped because it is "their volition," and that logic can end in assault charges, more today than ever. The tables have turned, and young men are getting prosecuted more by the fathers of daughters (you know, those 9 in 10 men who don't rape).

[@MsSilverTulip]

Woodward Sarrow "Drunk women cannot give consent" - but drunk men CAN?!? You are implying women are like children without any agency or personal responsibility, while men are to be held responsible and considered predators. What absolute rubbish! There are many cases where both the male and female were drunk and were both willing participants in sex, and the woman later regrets having sex and cries "rape". And it is people like you who encourage this bullshit. I have known men who were intoxicated and coerced by an intoxicated woman into sexual acts they didn't want (I mean literally climbing on top of the guy while he is saying no, or unzipping his pants and going down on him to piss off his girlfriend while he is telling her to stop and trying to get her off him). According to you, the men are the "rapists" simply because they are male. What a disgusting man hater you are.

[@alib4486]

+Silver Tulip if a woman is black out drunk and has loss of motor functions like walking, then it would absolutely be rape to have sex with her. If a man had loss of motor functions in a blackout, it is VERY unlikely he would have the physical capacity to attempt such actions. This is just common sense

[@claudiacorr9306]

Women, please don’t listen to this and think you’re safe. I was drugged on Saturday. Worst experience of my life. I’ve been watching this while vomiting profusely, still. And it’s Wednesday. It may be rarer than we think but it definitely happens and can just as easily happen to you as it did to me

[@gypsygirl1692]

I agree with you. It happened to me numerous times over my life and I'm in my 40s. I was always in a restaurant eating when I became someones prey and so violently abused that I was left for dead. I am ashamed of this video on behalf of every feminist ever.

[@claudiacorr9306]

@@gypsygirl1692 I’m so sorry that happened to you ❤️ it happens to so many of us and we’re all usually to embarrassed and ashamed to talk about it because of the questioning and victim blaming

[@SuperSilviao]

FROM THE VOICES OF THE DEAD: "We never gave our daughter the bad example of drinking alcohol. That was not what we raised." - It is a great idea to teach the community to never push alcohol on youngsters who are not of age or even older ones.

[@sayraahmed5162]

b6

[@motherfudger6664]

I've dealth with roofying a couple times in my life, it's definitely real.

[@LeGrimReaper]

While alcohol is much more commonly present during sexual assaults than are so-called "roofies," like Rohypnol and GHB, many date-rape drugs can be very difficult to detect because they leave the system after a few hours.

[@Pumbear]

+LeGrim Reaper Mate have you honestly tried GHB once? You try mixing that stuff with ANY drink without it becoming revolting. Then there's the dosage part of it. It's not easy to get the right dosage of it in one go. And if you go too much then the victim blacks out. Now try dragging a blacked out woman out of a club without anyone being suspicious.

[@JulianLloydMarketing]

I was actually drugged at a pub. Ended up in a hospital. Nobody had any intention of trying to "take me home" haha. I'm sure it was just because they wanted to see me get messed up. Joke was on them because after I had the 2 beers there I left and went home. They didn't get to see anything.

[@Icecypher]

I am a man, and even we were advised to be careful with drinks on parties, making sure bottles were opened in front of us and things like that. Everyone has to be careful with that.

[@snvcchs]

The statistics are there yet everybody in the comments "knows a friend" or was that victim when most likely they just got shitfaced. Using the scapegoat "stranger danger" is so much easier than personal accountability.

[@motherfudger6664]

When someone goes from zero to wasted in a half hour after only one drink, that is not just getting shitfaced.

[@jamesconnolly5164]

Even if it turns out to be a rare event, I think it's a good thing for both men and women to watch their drinks, if reasonably possible, just in case; sort of like wearing a seat belt even if you don't intend to crash your car. I also fully support nail polish and the like that changer color upon contact with date rape drugs if it actually works and won't go off on false alarms leading to possible false legations. I look forward to more episodes in the future.

[@polarvortex3294]

With regard to the many risks in life, the severity of what might happen if the risk manifests itself should be taken into account when deciding what preventative measures to take. Since a rape, or a tragic accident that occurs while disorientated, can ruin a life, it seems reasonable to be cautious.

[@williamjenkins4913]

@@polarvortex3294 Exactly. If you are reacting to a risk that has about the same probability as getting hit by a meteor there is a problem. Especially if that overvalued risk causes you to treat others with suspicion.

[@sashawood2617]

I'm not sure how I feel about this video, but I will say this. I sorta treat date rape drugs (no need for weird quotation marks) like murder. Just, listen. You don't (and shouldn't) walk around constantly in fear that someone is gonna murder you, because it's not a regular occurrence, but it does happen. Do I walk around constantly suspicious? No. But I don't go down dark alleys with no protection either. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that there is healthy fear and paranoia fear. I do make sure I know where my drink is and, to an extent, who's around it. I don't watch it like a hawk, just waiting for someone to put something in there.

[@jougteam9466]

Sasha Wood is the reason you don’t know how you feel about this video because it challenged your preconceived notions?

[@ramsa01Yt]

Sasha Wood: phrase “where my drink is” tells everything to any man around you. Good luck!

[@leonader9465]

I imagine it would be harder to rape someone than murder someone.

[@bbsonjohn]

I think Sasha Wood meant that when something is unlikely to happen, but it REALLY sucks when it happens (like murder), it is reasonable to take precaution around it. The amount of precaution is a balancing game between probability and the magnitude of the consequence, rather than just the former. Watching out the drink is some precaution that takes minimum effort and zero financial cost. And it is a safe-guard against an unlikely risk with high consequences. So it makes sense to carry out the action. Paranoia in this case will be avoid drinking in a bar, or hiring a security guard to watch for your drink. The social or financial cost is disproportionate to the probability of the hazard.

[@MiraSmit]

Spiking drinks does happen, just not as much as people are led to believe it does. This doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautious, but that there are other reasons to be cautious like keeping track of how much alcoholic drinks you have consumed because drinking too much alcohol will leave you incapacitated as well. My advice, switch to non alcoholic drinks after a maximum of 3 alcoholic ones unless you're a real lightweight, then it might be better to avoid alcohol alltogether unless you're at home. Of course you should always keep track of your drinks.

[@mellis535]

I someone at a party is more likely to ask if anyone has illicit drug x (for their own consumption) than worry it's going to be silpped into their drink.

[@masterstoner9334]

Same here 😂

[@SomeOne1121]

I've worked as a bartender and nightclub manager. I strongly advice ANYONE to never drink anything they haven't observed from it being order until it is handed to you. Even then you're not completely safe, if someone wants to drug you, they WILL do it, but as a principle I never drink anything given to me unless I completely trust the person giving it to me and I feel fairly sure about the chain of handling. I agree it's not a big risk, but the very few times I've seen something like this happen, it's fucking scary.

[@howardfox5763]

No one male or female should leave a drink unwatched in a public place.

[@cindypowell2412]

No bc I was this past weekend. In Beaumont, Tx. left in ditch. memory completely erased.

[@gypsygirl1692]

Me too. Once I was left for dead in the woods as a teenager. Another time, I was strangled so badly that my neck hurt for a solid year and I was surprised I even woke up after such extremely violent abuse. Rapist don't rape the woman who will give it voluntarily. They rape the woman who they can not have but are not asking, they are stealing the soul and mind. It should be charged every time as attempted murder because it is attempted murder to drug a woman and violently abuse her unconscious body.

[@CosmicBiohazard]

Of course! it makes perfect sense to live in constant fear that someone will sneak an inhibition and motor skill-inhibiting substance into your inhibition and motor skill-inhibiting substance.

[@bigbluebuttonman1137]

Yeah. Most rape stories involving parties seem to feature people getting dead drunk...just normal...dead drunk...before someone violates them.

[@skinflutey]

I've heard women say" I was drugged because I can usually drink more than two drinks without getting drunk" my first response "how much did you eat that day?" The answer is usually a sandwich at the most. I think this is the case for most. With me it usually takes a good six pack to get me drunk but if I don't eat 3 beers can't get me really drunk. Another factor is alcohol content of the drink. If you usually get drinks with single shots, then you have a night where you're ordering double shots, then you'll get drunk much quicker.

[@hediyehb9082]

you think this is the case for most? wow ! what an argument.

[@jougteam9466]

Hediyeh B did the video not just show that the vast majority of suspected date rape drugs cases are not actually that? Yeah I bet a lot of the time it’s just people getting way too drunk and if they drank less and got more drunk eating less is probably the reason.

[@hediyehb9082]

Jougteam yeah the video said sth vague along those lines. So it must be true... a conservative poster child says: ladies be lyin'... my apologies for ever doubting the substance to this barely legal baseless guess-claim 🙄

[@maryluwhittle6366]

@@hediyehb9082 My guess is that some of these guys posting are trying to justify the crimes they committed.

[@JackHaveman52]

"I only had a couple of drinks.....I'm positive". I've been a bartender for years. I can't even begin to tell you how often I've heard that one, when I had to cut them off. They're drinking and they lose track of all time and reality, especially the younger women. They don't have the body weight to handle a lot of alcohol and quite often they're very light eaters, as well. A sure recipe for quick intoxication.

[@tracesprite6078]

Thank you, Jack, for your useful insights.

[@DarrylLearie]

I think what is understated is the fact that many (most) men have women in their lives that they care about deeply whether daughter, sister, wife, cousin, friend, mother, etc. And therefore do not go out and about looking for ways to abuse women. There are very few men who seek to abuse women and those few men abuse a lot of women and thus are responsible for the majority of crimes against women.

[@TheRobotDevilInside]

Do the "1% of all rape accusations are false and 50% of all rape acusations are not reported" myth.

[@electroguy02]

Well, Dr. Sommers has covered rape statistics before and even she found the USDJ criminal victimization survey to be credible. If you look at the 2013 statistics, 0.4/1000 reported a rape/sexual assault to police while 0.7/1000 did not report their incident to the police. Do a little bit of math and you'll find that in 2013, 64% of rapes/sexual assaults went unreported. Assuming you meant to say that 50% of all rapes are not reported, I'm sure even Dr. Sommers couldn't contest those findings.

[@Loathomar]

electroguy02 Rape statics is generally very complex on all sides and it allows for a huge range of "findings" that can be changed depending on the point someone is trying to make. The most important question would be "what exactly do you mean by rape?". It seems like a crazy question but it is HUGELY important in discussing rape statics. If you only look at the stereotypical meaning of what people think of as rape, ei violent stranger rape, the percent reported to the police is likely very high. You look at "sexual assault", which can literally mean an ass pinch, the percent reported to the police is likely very low. Sure having your ass pinch by a stranger is a crime, but it is not really the same as a men raping your ass with a knife to your throat, now is it? Why in the world anyone would lump these two crimes together other then to prove a point about "how rape is not reported" is beyond me. I would like to know how the numbers break down; % reported of; violent stranger rape, minor sexual assault (ass grabbing), major sexual assault (say held down and molested), rape by an intimate partner where the victim calls it a rape, rape by an intimate partner where the victim does not calls it a rape and so on. This would tell us far far more about % reported of sexual crimes then just a over look of all reported a rape/sexual assault to police. Though we could and should treat rape like other violent crimes and if a women goes to the ER, the police are required to come and take a report, just like if it was a gun shot or a stabbing. But feminist will fight tooth and nail to not let this happen because, seemingly, they would rather have a rapist run free and rape other women then to have a rape victims be question to stop future rapes.

[@electroguy02]

Loathomar I agree. Since rape and sexual assault are vastly different, it seems weird to group them together like they did in the survey. I don't know if there's any sensible way to use those numbers other than how Dr. Sommers used it before: to contest the overall findings of the CDC's sexual violence survey. To be honest though, I trust the USDJ method more. Looking at their survey questions, they straight-up ask if one was the victim of "Any rape, attempted rape or other type of sexual attack." It's much better than what the CDC did which would seem to over-inflate the number of sexual violence acts that happened since they, for example, would consider someone who was masturbated in front of (say, a girl who had a guy sitting a few rows in front of her doing his thang) as a victim of sexual violence. So far, I haven't found a source that splits it up like you suggested, though I probably haven't looked hard enough. I agree that it would be more telling.

[@Loathomar]

electroguy02 The one thing I will give to the CDC is that the asked guys the same questions, though they did not call it "rape". But when men and women are asked the same question the CDC found the men and women faced the same level of rape per year, 1.1% for both.

[@DarthHugsALot]

An academic peer reviewed study with over a thousand datapoints with findings which have been duplicated... What is this craziness?

[@outofhisdammind]

The moral of this story: Put down the drink and lay off the sauce.

[@dattebenforcer]

Do you have a link to these studies?

[@JerjerB]

I was raped after being administered GHB in a drink in March, 2012. I woke up in an alley between 2 buildings at 7am the next morning. My urine tested positive for GHB during my rape kit. By the way: I'm a man.

[@theoneandonlyowl3764]

When I was younger and a heavy party drinker, there came a point when I would get to a certain point in my inebriation that I would "lose" my memory of the previous night. Being male, working in a bar, I'd imagined that all these others that complained of "losing their memory" and asking what they did the night before were full of shit. Then it started happening to me. From that point on I had to consciously monitor my alcohol intake, as I hate losing control, and more importantly forgetting what I'd done the while drunk. Some of the things I was told that I'd done in this state still boggle my mind. Until it started and continued to happen to me I thought it was a myth. It's not. Too much alcohol can wipe memories and since women seem to have a lower capacity for alcohol (as advised in all "this" country's "drink-driving" commercials), what you say in this video makes a lot of sense. If the threat of date-rape drugs were pushed in the media at that time in my life or were even available, I might have quickly blamed my memory loss on them.

[@Viking102938]

As a bouncer, I feel like I have a bit of weigh-in on this. Sometime in the first six months that I started working the late-night crowd (4am), we had a girl come in practically being carried by her friends. It was her 21st birthday, and she was the most intoxicated person I've ever seen. So intoxicated, that we had to call the hospital. The next week, two of her friends came back, thanking us for calling the hospital. She'd consumed 4x the legal limit of alcohol, and would have died without medical intervention. I hate to boil down such complex issues to "young women don't know when they're drunk", but..I mean..young women don't know when they're drunk. I've seen it over and over again, that women (more than men) are likely to consume alcohol to the point of having to be carried out. I suspect the reason for this is biological, as well as mental. Men naturally having a higher tolerance for alcohol (it comes from the increased metabolism and body weight) but more importantly (they have a higher tolerance, but they could just drink a lot more, and some do), on a "emotional level" , we really don't want to have to rely on people. If Chad has to carry Brad out of the bar, Brad is gonna get a lot of shit in the morning. If Britney does? Not so much. This video doesn't surprise me at all -- it's put a lot of dots together. It's not rape culture, it's paranoid young women scared of their own shadows, lol..

[@malaikat8279]

Intoxicated rape culture is such a thing. Please don’t undermine the experiences of others

[@CherisseRaghoo]

I agree with Malaika. drinks do get spiked with drugs, as a bouncer I'd think you've seen a roofie or attempted one before.

[@SophieDavidsonlala]

When I have been out in clubs, I have seen men either trying to force women to drink from a certain glass or literally walking around with a drink and asking women if they want it (only women btw). I also know girls who were clearly spiked as the way they were acting was not in the way alcohol affects someone. A girl I know had two drinks the whole night and her pupils were dilated and her jaw was practically swinging. Maybe there isn't a lot of evidence of it because women are so guarded about what they are drinking and where they leave it. I live in Scotland just so you know aha! It doesn't happen often but it definitely is something to be aware of.

[@SophieDavidsonlala]

Nah, she's strictly no drugs.

[@SophieDavidsonlala]

***** no need to be patronising. Being nice is also a thing,

[@GEhotpants101]

Sure it happens, but it's just not as rampant as we've been lead to believe. We should all keep an eye on our drink, but it shouldn't plague our good times when we're out.

[@innerstrengthcoach]

Have you considered that these women might be on narcotic drugs?

[@mensabs]

The word it "trying". No one can be forced to swallow a liquid. There is a reflex in the throat that prevents it that maintains breathing. If the girl swallows the drinks she is being pressured to drink, she has made a decision. She can order Pepsi and continue to look for boys (sober or drunk) to date. And if she chooses to date a drunk boy, she is foolish. She should go home until she has matured and realizes that she has responsibilities as much as the boys have.

[@samchandler2527]

The Roofies scare ignores that the demographic of men who want a completely inert lover is miniscule. And transporting any date "fireman style" is bound to attract attention. I just don't think a guy would get away with it.

[@deepvoodoo]

Don't listen to the clowns who are accusing you of justifying rape or telling women not to be vigilant or whatever. They're low-down despicable people who want to feel that they alone are interested in defending women against rape, and their means of doing so are simply accusing people of justifying it then attacking them. There was a Miss America contestant who was accused of "advocating rape" and/or "blaming the victim" by recommending more women take self-defense classes. That's how stupid these people are.

[@hrvad]

There was a Zogby poll in 2007 that asked a representative group of people if they would do any of the hard drugs (heroin or cocaine) were they to be made legal. About 1 percent answered that they probably would: 0.6 percent said yes, 0.4 percent said "maybe/undecided". Had softer drugs been included I would expect the numbers to be slightly higher (e.g. if one was to include mushrooms, MDMA/Ecstasy, methylone, LSD or mephedrone). So the approx. 2 percent in the cited study of suspected, involuntary drugging pretty much matches the percentages that one would expect to find among the general population. Incidentally, Law Enforcement Against Prohibition has tracked the addition rates in the US the last 100 years: it's about 1.5 percent (no matter which political regime, year, or whether legal or prohibited - doesn't matter, same percentage). Another thing that most people don't realize if they're ignorant about drugs is that hitting the right dose is next to impossible, especially if you're measuring out the dose for someone you don't know how much have been drinking, don't know their weight, don't know if they might have other recreational drugs already in their system, whether it's on a full or empty stomach, whether the person has allergies against the drug and so on. Any moron who got hold of some pain or nerve medicine, or GHB, would definitely risk killing their mark outright. I've seen case after case where even volunteers got in a bad place (dumbasses gulping down unspecified amounts of unspecified strength GHB after a night of heavy drinking). Heck, I've seen VERY experienced heroin users go to eternal sleep because they first drank themselves into a stupor, then dosed some heroin before sleeping. As for marijuana it's the same: just 1-2 puffs, innocent in any other circumstance, would easily floor someone who've been drinking heavily - it's like a compound or synergistic effect and very hard to control (though, obviously, not lethal since it's marijuana - but it could easily lead to an emergency room visit, because a very drunk person on marijuana can be quite helpless). Any real "date rape drugger" would basically leave a trail of dead bodies behind. Even if (usually) non-lethal drugs, such as MDMA, were used there is absolutely NO guarantee that the drug effects would help whatever nefarious plan the perpetrator might have. With all the campaigns going around at least take this home: drugs can be unpredictable. I'm saying this for a couple of reasons. One is that I know the drug scene intimately, and most people don't have any idea just how careful most people are around drugs. This "vanguard of experimentation" know well that they might inadvertently kill someone, and nothing is worth that. Another is to tell those who are largely ignorant about drugs that this is IMPOSSIBLE and should NOT be attempted under any circumstances: seriously, if you ARE a rapist, go another route or better: seek help. There is NO WAY attempted "drug rapes" are going to go well.

[@Nathouuuutheone]

I'm a dude and I almost always make 100% sure my drink is under strict supervision. I got drugged once. For real. And it's not happening again for damn sure.

[@Radagast-]

By their very nature, drug-related sexual assault are under-reported, because victims simply don't know that they've been raped... As such, it's false to claim that there isn't a significant problem - one can only say that there is a very good reason why there is little evidence. Given the conduct of Reynhard Sinaga, it would be foolish to imagine that prolific and dangerous sexual predators don't exist.

[@TherrusD]

So the Time calls it "bar-tab shaming"...I've got one thing to say to them: If common sense is such a big issue for your writers WHY AREN'T YOU HIRING NEW WRITER?! Is it too much to ask women to take responsability? Don't get wasted. If you need to drink, drink moderate. But appearently that's "shaming". Victim blaming or "shaming" is bullshit. Don't run around like a hooker, don't drink until you're wasted and get some common sense.

[@6oodfella]

I remember I went out once and drank about 14 pints of lager, 8 whiskeys, and 4 Bacardi Breezers. I then started 3 separate fights, punched a police officer, puked all over myself, and then had sex with a woman that resembled Jabba The Hutt. Obviously some nasty woman spiked one my drinks, otherwise my behaviour would have been saintly, and I would have had no regrets.

[@thefurrybastard1964]

Are you Sam Beckett from Quantum Leap? That is exactly the same as one of my drunken nights out!

[@kevmac8377]

Lol

[@ahmadfaris8044]

That jabba the hut probably a male

[@delightfullyari]

This video is so inaccurate it hurts. Date rape can and does happen. Rape without drugs can and does happen. When is the woman in this video and other twisted people like her going to start holding the rapists accountable instead of blaming people for being raped? Videos like this do NOTHING to end rape and just perpetuate the kinds of dangerous lines of thought that let people believe that rape never happens and that verbal consent from someone while fully conscious is not necessary. For a "factual feminist" she sure isn't factual. Or a feminist.

[@maximummask]

As long you completely lie about the video's claims, I can sort of see the the factual feminist not being factual or a feminist.

[@Krrypton]

***** I find in the "rape drugs" issue an interesting parallel to "stranger danger". While does happen, it happens, like you said, far less than the media hype would let us believe.

[@olivierdastein2604]

The video says nowhere what you accuse it of saying. Where did she deny that date rape happens? Where did she blame people who have been raped? Where did she say that consent isn't necessary? The only question addressed by this video is whether or not being "roofied" commonly happens. If you have evidences that she's wrong on this point, then bring your evidences. If not, then stop accusing people of saying things they never said. That's extraordinarily distasteful (and does NOTHING to end rape, either). Also, why do you say that we should kill puppies? Stop supporting puppy killers.

[@GreatSmithanon]

People need to do ONE SIMPLE THING. Know your own fucking limits. It isn't that difficult to be a responsible human being, and women are getting far too many free passes on their own irresponsibility.

[@headbangben1]

hey you cant say that! thats vicitim blaming! how dare you suggesting that those women should watch their behaviour, that fucking alcohol shouldnt make them intoxicated. damn patriarchy ruining the lives of young women, sickening.

[@hugolindum7728]

The date rape zeitgeist has I suggest two origins: As kids this generation of college students were the most cosseted in human history. They were never alone. They were protected from seriously competition at school or even bad words from their mates. The first time they have been in their own is at college; they have the life experience of a 13 year old of 30 years ago. They see stranger danger everywhere now they have no mummy and daddy or teacher to protect them. The second part is feminism has taught them that men are consumed by toxic masculinity. The sub text is women are weak and defenseless. Add to this the quantity of alcohol they drink, and their wish to maintain their self image of good girls. So they can’t accept “I got drunk and went to bed with a guy I hardly know”, which converts to “I was drugged, I’m a victim of the patriarchy.” Victim hood gives them status.

[@aristhocrat]

My wife experienced this in a club in Stockholm. Luckily she quckly felt somthing was wrong after sipping her drink. She hurried to the restroom and locked herself in. There she became paralysed but remained fully aware. The drug subsided after an hour or so and some women helped her out of there.

[@MrKrtek00]

How about considering that a victim narrative ("I was drugged") is generally more convenient than the "I got shitface drunk becaue I like drinking, and I got in trouble" narrative?

[@hediyehb9082]

a blood test can clear that up if the rape is reported soon enough. If the rape is not reported soon enough there is always the fall back that people using drugs to rape other people follow a pattern and more victims will come up and the pattern can lead to probable cause. If there is no pattern and no proof such claims will not hold in a court and the accused will be exonerated. see? no snark needed and no slut shaming either.

[@aaendi6661]

Where do people even get date rape drugs in the first place?

[@tompalmer5986]

I'm a 61 year old white male, and I am at a loss as to how to respond to this piece. The use of date rape drugs came after my time, so I have no first hand experience with them. I do think that there is a fair amount of rape that isn't influenced by date rape drugs. In the autobiographical "Makes Me Want to Holler" those guys pretty much gang raped every girl in the neighborhood. I think a lot of that kind of thing differs from place to place - which fraternity, which neighborhood, et. al. I did have an experience where this guy and I were laying on a bed with a girl who was very drunk, and she decided she wanted to have sex with both of us. Though she was yelling, "Why not?!" we declined. It's highly ironic that both of us guys could have been prosecuted for rape if we had sex with her. She was too drunk to give consent. But I'm kinda wondering if it doesn't infantilize the girl by requiring such protections for her. It give guys no protection at all from rape charges if they're too drunk to be responsible for their actions. I don't know if we'll ever get it sorted out.

[@philipdonovan5127]

What to know about date rape drugs. - My daughter was roofied last week and woke up very agitated and scared because she didn't remember how she got home. If you attempt to drug a girl and her Dad finds out who you are, then you will wish very badly that you had been caught and arrested. Use your imagination.

[@kipper3448]

My ex step-daughter would go out most Friday or Saturday nights to drink with her friends. I cannot count the number of times she got absolutely trashed, came home and puked everywhere and said someone had slipped something in her drink. It was pretty much a weekly thing.

[@krystinarossi6905]

Curious, how dysfunctional was her mother and or family of origin?

[@TheAjb45]

Just to note, no where in this video does she say to not be aware of the risk of sexual assault or to not care for your drink (be aware of your personal surroundings). If that is your take-away, I suggest you watch again. Is drug-facilitated sexual assault a possibility? Of course. But resources need to be directed towards actual risks not based on perceived risk. And both statistics and I believe common sense will tell you that abuse of alcohol presents a much greater risk to the safety of women (and men for that matter) than GHB or Rohypnol (both extremely difficult to procure in the US - just try to find Rohypnol even on the dark nets).

[@legi0naire]

Spiking happens to both genders, because apparently its funny to see what happens when you drug someone. And don't forget people use drugs and when it goes bad or someone discovers the usage they blame spiking. Not saying it does not happen, just saying it happens to both genders but its rare, and we should not scare people into believing otherwise.

[@MRWALLFan]

(Date)Rape drugs are a big issue in Germany, everyone is given advice not to leave their drink unattended.

[@hideem1]

This is insane. Please don't listen to this video and continue not leaving your drinks unattended.

[@hideem1]

+Blahblah that's not really what I'm getting from the video. I also don't think they understand the nature of those drugs or the half-life of the same. It might not be a serious issue where they are from, but it is an extremely serious issue here.

[@deepvoodoo]

+hideem1 hey stupid, she didn't say, "you should just leave your drinks unattended." But I know, you like to accuse people of thinking women can't think for themselves because it means you're better than them. It's a nice alternative to making something of your life.

[@hideem1]

+Blahblah I'm in the U.S. I don't know what part of the U.S. these people are coming from, but in my area, this is a very real issue. I know Americans aren't real great about understanding the rest of the world and alternative perspectives, part of that is because we are raised on the drug of individualism and separatism, but another very real reason is that in the U.S. there are thousands of different cultures and sub-cultures spread out from coast to coast. Many dialects and diverse ways of thinking. Some people can't even take all of that in let alone try to absorb the cultures around the globe that are also very different. Anyway, that's off topic. My comment about where these people are from was rooted in the above knowledge of diversity in the U.S. and abroad, because I had no idea whether these women were Americans or not.

[@zarkoff45]

Why is everyone trying to scare the shit out of young women and why isn't it working?

[@walks7704]

I was drugged by the person I had been seeing for 7 years also another man involved. So its more than likely someone you know as they can get you in position so you don't realise what's happened.like costing up on the sofa

[@johnmahoney6663]

People don't live "In constant fear" of dying in a car crash, but we all wear seat belts. I agree though, that it is far more likely that excess alcohol is behind most date rape cases. Frat punch can contain a crap load of alcohol that you can not taste. Most college women would be wise to avoid Frat punch. Especially freshmen without a track record of drinking.

[@23RedTechno]

Most people say to avoid that Date rape drugs scenario or situation in night clubs or parties is Rule 1.Bring more friends with you Rule 2: Have your friend or date hold you're drink for for you Rule 3: Don't except ant drinks from random guys Rule 4 ;Are if some guy hands you a drink you think might be tamped with use the these lines :No i'll get my own drink or my boyfriend is with me he's in the restroom at the moment i could go get him if you want .

[@user-ex9ti7ds3m]

People seem to forget how much college girls drink

[@martyillingworth5221]

In Australia a man can be convicted of rape if consent is proven to be absent, a woman being drunk is not lack of consent, however a man plying a woman with alcohol for the purposes of getting his way can be convicted of rape

[@BW022]

The other issue is that drugs such as rohypnol and GHB have serious side effects -- including comas, death, vomiting, blood pressure drops, etc. Using the drug on 1,000 women would almost certainly land dozens in the hospital with serious effects and likely kill several.

[@juanitadudley4788]

Slightly off topic, but if a woman can claim she was too drunk to consent, why can't a man claim he was too drunk to realize she didn't consent. Didn't feminism use to mean women taking personal responsibility?!?

[@olivierdastein2604]

Because drunkenness (if voluntary) is pretty much never a defense for criminal actions. Think of drunk driving, for instance. "I was too drunk to realize that I was too drunk to drive" is never gonna work, and for good reasons. However, in a juridiction where an intoxicated person cannot consent, he could argue that his partner sexually assaulted him as well, as he was drunk and couldn't consent. To my knowledge it never worked (I could be wrong), and there was no case when both partners have been sentenced for abusing each other during their drunken sex.

[@Templetonq]

Calling it paranoia is rape apology. Suggesting ways women can protect themselves from it is rape apology. Basically anything that strays from the narrative is rape apology.

[@DrMX5]

Nice work Deputy. Thank you

[@jasonasdecker]

I have to admit I was given a roffie but it was because I was talking to a woman the bartender thought should be his, she wasn't.

[@Bynming]

I protect myself from a wide array of vague improbable threats. That's okay.

[@udutae]

Then why would someone have a drinking session with strangers?

[@IanGerritsen]

Another great video presenting solid arguments supported by facts. Yes by all means be careful, but don't overstate the threat of that when there are much more productive things to protect against that go undiscussed because they're not "sensational" enough for clickbait journalists that breed a culture of fear.

[@SylvEdu]

I don't think it's ever bad to teach precaution. Just because something is unlikely, doesn't mean you shouldn't watch out for it. At the same time, however, watching your drink and not leaving it unattended shouldn't be a something for the Social Justice Movement to point and shout at as something way more prevalent than it is. In reality, being safe with your drink doesn't detract from how well you enjoy yourself at a party unless you are hyper-paranoid. I say this with the experience of constantly watching my drink, especially at gay bars. It doesn't mean I can't have a good time.

[@god6706]

Yeah, I think that is just to highlight that there's no need for paranoia. Because there's a difference between paranoia and precaution, and what modern feminists propose is paranoia.

[@RemiAutor]

We need to teach some precaution not to drink so damn much alcohol. Nobody is going to spike your drink because it's completely unnecessary when alcohol itself lowers inhibitions and can make you black out all by itself.

[@IndigoVagrant]

I am not all that familiar with AEI, the group that made this "Factual Feminist" video so I googled and oh wow. Among so many things... *Basically were the architects of GWB's administration. *Among it's trusties is Dick Cheney as well as many CEOs of major corporations. *Was a main analyst and advisor for GWB during the Iraq war. *Pushed for continuing and even expanding market based health care, even though their own studies showed this would not work well for a country with such great diversity. * Tried to bribe scientists into criticizing a major climate change report, probably using some of that.... * 1.6 million in funding from Exxon whose CEO is one of the trusties for this group. So okay, none of this is all that surprising, but it makes me wonder why they would be involved in down playing the dangers of date rape drugs. It seems a bit weird to me they would trapse into this area. What is in it for them, or are their sons just complaining that with women being more vigilant, they can't get laid.

[@Loathomar]

IndigoVagrant An impressive ad hominem attack but as in all ad hominem you merely attacked the speaker and not the point the speaker has made. Do you suggest the peer reviewed data is wrong? Do you have ANY evidence that anything that was stated in this video was factually incorrect? And you give peer reviewed data that significantly contradicts the ideas stated in the video? If you can for any of these, please do, other wise save you personal attacks as they are entirely pointless.

[@SylvEdu]

Loathomar Haha, IndigoVagrant #rekt

[@claystate2169]

I don't even go out that much and I've been to a party where some dudes were trying to drug a girl, sneaking it into her drink... It's probably not super common but this reminds me of people who say it's safe to swim with sharks. Swim at your own risk...

[@TheTelenation]

I have a friend who got too drunk then claimed to have been drugged to avoid being made fun of. I called her bullshit, if she had just said 'Oh man, I drank way too much! That was dumb' we would have nodded and moved on but because she made up some stupid shit like that we gave her a hard time. I despise her for trying to shirk responsibility and then pretend to be a victim.

[@wraithsrequiem9711]

Just wondering what would happen to the rape culture if men decide to play video games and go MGTOW?

[@slobiden.2593]

Here's advice. Never be on your own when you're drinking.

[@MethodicalMadness]

By the way, ladies and gents... An introduction to the Board of Trustees at AEI (with particular attention to "The Honorable Richard Bruce 'Dick' Cheney", The Carlyle Group globalresearch.ca/articles/NEW304A.html any names seem familiar there?, and a slew of others whom you can peruse at your leisure). Take note of the male to female ratio just on the board alone. Yes. These (mostly) MEN want you to trust THEM to tell you ANY kind of "truth" or "facts" regarding women as THEY see fit, not as reality plays itself out... Tully M. Friedman, Chairman Chairman and CEO Friedman Fleischer & Lowe, LLC Daniel A. D'Aniello, Vice Chairman Chairman and Co-Founder The Carlyle Group Clifford S. Asness Managing and Founding Principal AQR Capital Management Gordon M. Binder Managing Director Coastview Capital, LLC Arthur C. Brooks President and Beth and Ravenel Curry Chair in Free Enterprise American Enterprise Institute The Honorable Richard B. Cheney Peter H. Coors Vice Chairman of the Board Molson Coors Brewing Company Harlan Crow Chairman and CEO Crow Holdings Ravenel B. Curry III Chief Investment Officer Eagle Capital Management, LLC John V. Faraci Chairman and CEO International Paper Company Christopher B. Galvin Chairman Harrison Street Capital, LLC Raymond V. Gilmartin Harvard Business School Harvey Golub Retired Chairman and CEO, American Express Company Chairman, Miller Buckfire Robert F. Greenhill Founder and Chairman Greenhill & Co., Inc. Frank J. Hanna Hanna Capital, LLC Seth A. Klarman President and CEO The Baupost Group, LLC Bruce Kovner Chairman Caxton Alternative Management, LP Marc S. Lipschultz Partner Kohlberg Kravis Roberts John A. Luke Jr. Chairman and CEO MeadWestvaco Corporation George L. Priest Yale Law School Kevin B. Rollins Senior Advisor TPG Capital Matthew K. Rose Chairman and CEO BNSF Railway Company Edward B. Rust Jr. Chairman and CEO State Farm Insurance Companies D. Gideon Searle Managing Partner The Serafin Group, LLC Mel Sembler Founder and Chairman The Sembler Company Wilson H. Taylor Chairman Emeritus Cigna Corporation William H. Walton Managing Member Rockpoint Group, LLC Marilyn Ware Chairman, Ret. American Water Works Emeritus Trustees Richard B. Madden Robert H. Malott Paul F. Oreffice Henry Wendt

[@Scorchcast]

"Should women live in constant fear." No, that's like saying you're living in constant fear of being robbed every time you go out at night. Be cautious, what *don't* people understand about common sense?

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

I think the potential is real. I think the potential safeguards against it are easy. If you're going out with friends, look out for each other. Don't go home alone with complete strangers - get to know them better (dates in public places, for example) and build trust before you do that. If you choose to do so, tell at least one friend exactly where you're going, have them take a picture of you with your new hot date and spread it around (or take a selfie with him and send it to your friends with the details if you're alone), get them to call or text you after an hour or two, and if you don't reply within, say, five to ten minutes (enough to finish the deed if you're heavily and voluntarily engaged in it), they can send in the cavalry (i.e. call the cops). If the guy is decent and genuine, he won't be bothered by this; if he is bothered, it's probably long past time to get outta Dodge anyway. And if you called it wrong and bailed on a zero-threat situation, a decent guy will accept your apology afterwards. But if you called it right and bailed on a date rapist before he got his hooks in, well done.

[@user83c9f49]

so what you're saying is that people shouldn't date unless they have a whole heist and crew on standby, which subsequently means the date will be too stressful to be enjoyable? please! how about you try that ridiculous plan a couple dozen times and then let us all know if you have any friends left, or if there's a single guy in town who thinks you're not completely nuts by the time you're done!

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

No, that's not what I'm saying. You have misconstrued me completely. Read it again _carefully_. What I said was, IF you are out with friends, look out for each other so a predator can't roofie one of you and cut you out of the pack. DON'T go home with complete strangers, but build trust and a relationship first. IF you choose to go home for sexual hijinks with someone you've just met, take some basic precautions so that if you drop off the radar, a search starts sooner rather than later and people know who to look for if it turns out you're never coming back (someone who knows they've had their picture taken with you as you both left the party is going to be a lot less likely to rape and/or murder you). IF you get uncomfortable with the hookup you went home with, bail out before something bad can happen. If you don't understand conditional clauses, if a basic IF...THEN escapes your intellect, if you're incapable of filtering out what doesn't apply to you and acting on the rest... you need to improve your thinking skills. And by the way I happen to be male, happily married, and considering carefully what advice I'd be giving my daughter when she grows up and has to deal with situations like this for herself. I want her to be able to come home from her nights on the town alive and unhurt; is that too much to want?

[@hilaryblackburn4007]

It doesn’t matter if you’re drunk or not; it doesn’t give anyone the right to have sex with you. Drunk consent isn’t consent. I said what I said.

[@QRNPTBUZ]

Happened to a friend on mine, there was a society party and everyone went to the local club. I wasn't there but this is what I gathered the next day. This was her first time drinking heavily and apparently her drink was spiked by someone from the soc that was with her, needless to say her boyfriend wasn't the happiest guy when he heard and she spent most of the next day recovering. So it turns out after hearing from a few friends who stayed sober that night that she was just going hard, and stealing/sharing with a few people including the guy she thought 'spiked' her. All it was was her drinking too much, while hiding most of it from her boyfriend and reacting badly with a hell of a hangover the next day. Trust me when I heard people just saying so openly saying she was spiked as if it was something that was such a serious problem, I nearly lost my shit with them.

[@proffessorpraxis5743]

I'm assuming you were meaning to write "sorority party" instead of ""society party".

[@MadBrainBox]

The drinks are spiked.With alcohol.

[@maylin208]

Within minutes of watching this, I popped a random horror movie on Netflix: American Mary. What a horrible film. Not a particularly gross-out horror, but a conformation of the myth that men are mean, sexual predators who will go to any means possible to have sex - by drugging a ladies drink! If you're a factual feminist; someone who believes in equality, this is worth a watch - at least it's not gross up to that point - and you can switch off from there - but if you can stomach more you'll be treated to powerful, empowered women and weak, unpleasant men who routinely abuse women for their own lecherous ends. No wonder that so many young women live in fear when movies like this exist. If my outfit did the same with the roles reversed, there would be an outcry!

[@maximummask]

Who actually lives their life based on exaggerated and often fictional movie scenarios rather than real world research? And men being drugged and violated in some way happens a lot in Hollywood, it's actually a common trope and doesn't cause an outcry.

[@Okakkun]

I don't think she's very factual or feminist, but that's just me. This is coming from the same lady who is called "Mom" by the rabid MRA gamer set, so I'm inclined to believe she lives her life in some fantastic safety bubble where neither neither culpable rapists or common sense exist. You can coo at me all you want that you're "concerned", but you're just another empty head being a mouthpiece to this shit. Hey, and about making a safer world? You're really not helping by acting like this ISN'T victim blaming.

[@PanMonium]

Right. Pointing out that an overindulgence in alchohol is much more likely precursor to unwanted sexual contact than date rape drugs is victim blaming. Sounds to me like "One to Grow On" (Shooting Star)

[@sparc77]

It sure is a lot easier on the ego to wake up and blame someone else of being naughty than it is to wake up and realize you were naughty yourself. Keep in mind that they guy you bedded down with might have been just as drunk and out of control as you were, yourself.

[@TrashIt86]

Im a dude. When im out i dont leave my drink without a friend having an eye on it and if they leave the table i dont touch it. I do the same for my friends even when they dont ask me. Why? Because of real good propaganda in school. I just got in to me that i dont want to leave my drink without supervision because i got told in school that ppl can drug you just for fun. Oh well, hasnt bothered me really and has cost me about 20€ in 10 years of drinking. But i did get druged once, for fun. All my pals knew i only had two beers, and at that time i could handle way more, during the evening and i got out of whack after the second one. Puked my guts out and i really didnt have anything in there cept for some black nasty stuff. And i woke up next to a stranger, lucky me it was a girl and i dont think i got raped, but who knows? After that? Well, if im not looking in the same direction as where the drink is, i put my hand over it. That i didnt do back then, i left it on the table and looked somewhere else. So... it does happen and as long as youre not bothered by the little extra work that i never have noticed or has let impede me(because a nice pice of ass dont make me leave my drink), its just as good as a seat-belt for that off chance shit happens.

[@gwg4106]

Not to mention that GHB is easily overdosed and can absolutely cause death. Wait till you got it yourself, finding yourself not able to breathe, having your heart being totally strained, then you will stop saying such stupid things.

[@reysinn]

I don’t believe that everyone and their mother is being date raped and I do acknowledge that achohol is very often a factor. But I think it’s important to keep in mind that many women don’t report being drugged or sexually assaulted. There are many reasons for this but I think it does affect the studies done on people who have reported being date raped because there are a lot of people who just haven’t reported it

[@SilencerNate]

Wow...I'm not sure what to say. If you are indeed a feminist, this is the most down to earth, truth in details video I've seen that I can actually rally behind. Coming from a male to boot. Well done!

[@abiri7309]

My friend received a chocolate from her colleague for his birthday.. she's hospitalized and yes she was drugged. So be careful.

[@cptncutleg]

My counter-argument is that the precautions are EFFECTIVE. Attempts to use these drugs have been made (confirmed case of [Edit to remove exaggeration] many drinks in Tramps (Worcester England) given to women being spiked), but the precautions made by women, paranoid or not, do in fact largly protect them from "predators", whether they be sexual or otherwise. I've no statistics at hand, but if someone could provide evidence to support or counter this, that'd be great

[@bar-1streaming794]

Precautions are, crippling paranoia isn't. Living in fear is no way to live.

[@tekaknight]

Effective at what? If women are still willfully abusing other drugs to the point of black out, it seems more like a misguided comfort.

[@CW257866]

Kitchens says that the precautions make sense because bad shit can happen. What she is saying that the terror that comes with the precautions doesn't make sense. It's like locking your doors at night because you fear a home intrusion instead of, you know, just in case. One is very unhealthy.

[@Zebppir]

Effective against what exactly? If is not nearly as common as they make it out to be then its nothing more than an exercise of hysterical paranoia. Some precautions are a good thing. Living in a paranoid delusion is and cannot ever be considered a good thing.

[@DrunkBastard]

Precautions like what? Keeping your drink in your neighborhood? Or keeping your eye on your drink at all times, not even making eye contact with whoever is talking to you (they might be like street magicians and deceive you if you look in their eyes). There is sensible risk management and then there is paranoia. According to the statistics presented in the video, people are driven by paranoia when they take precautions against people spiking their drink. "confirmed case" Are you claiming that "Tramps" (which I assume is a club/bar) has a bunch of unconscious women inside and outside of the club? It can't have been Rohypnol.

[@Walnuss]

Your link "for more information" does not work

[@AEI]

Thanks! We just fixed it. Here's the link: www.aei.org/feature/factual-feminist/

[@Walnuss]

The link also didn't work for other videos. FYI.

[@nastythomashobbs]

They had me convinced as a man that American college guys were all potential predators. Through movies and commercials. Not through meeting them in person. Dbag media making even men hate men. We should class action lawsuit their asses.

[@deehin3137]

There's a vague, improbable chance that I might get into a driving accident, but I still wear my seat belt. I also don't offset that by driving too fast.

[@ShawnRavenfire]

I'm not bothered by the fact that women are changing their behavior to guard against something improbable. When I get behind the wheel of a car, I know that the chances are very low that I'm going to get into an accident, but I still put on a seat belt. Likewise, even if the chances of a date rape drug being used are very low, there's no reason not to take simple precautions like not leaving a drink unattended or using color-changing nail polish. (That's assuming the nail polish thing even works. I don't actually know how reliable it is.)

[@lordtomosdecree]

Feminist be like "this video is victim blaming and its not their fault......even though the video does NOT mention that rape victims are to blame but rather highlights the lies women would say in blaming other guys for their own carelessness......but since that doesn't fit my agenda I am going to ignore the facts"

[@maryluwhittle6366]

How do you know the woman is lying? Many don't even report. Do you have kids? I hope you don't have a daughter and I hope this doesn't happen to her.

[@olivierdastein2604]

The video doesn't even mention lies. It just states that the intoxicating effects experienced are more likely to be caused by alcohol. A woman could have a sincere belief that she has been drugged (especially if she has experienced a black out) even though she hadn't. Even more so since people assume that it's widespread, hence is a reasonable explanation.

[@scottreynolds2466]

Men call it Coyote Ugly! We get so drunk we wake up next to someone we didn't intend to be with and would chew our arm off to get away from. We don't say we were raped or drugged or coerced, we made a bad drinking decision.

[@theistus]

And btw, it's not just women who get slipped a mickey in their drink. I've seen it with men as well.

[@TempoDrift1480]

I had a couple chicks come over and my guitar player spiked my beer with eye drops. Fucked me up and I almost hit him in the head with a hammer when I found out.