Dating While BISEXUAL with Grant O'Brien | Happy Wife Happy Life

[@person-iw8qj]

"i'm glad i chose it" LOL grant amazing entrance. also "bi now gay later" is common but not universal

[@multiverseguy1239]

I'm going to add really late to this comment that this occurs due to people figuring themselves out and closeted people using the term because it feels safer. Gay first Bi later also happens commonly but not universally and just because you're Bisexual does not mean you are a closeted gay person. It's important to note this because it's a massive misconception not only with straight people but in LGBTQ+ spaces aswell. It can be biphobic depending on the context it is used in.

[@Allison_Hart]

"play the most bisexual game, which is-" Baldur's Gate 3? Stardew Valley? "Planet Coaster" sure fair enough

[@benjaminzuses1142]

It's Stardew :-D

[@Clairemc98]

Bi woman, my boyfriend is a bi man. We met on hinge so we knew immediately that both of us were bi because it was displayed on our profiles. Personally, when dating men, I prefer to date other bi men because of the shared queerness. I’ve had a few straight men that seemed pretty concerned that I was going to leave them for a woman. I don’t have that experience with my bi boyfriend.

[@BartlebyScrivener-oz6mk]

My sister is straight and her ex had that exact worry lmaooooooo

[@katieneill8060]

The way he is LOUNGING !!!!!

[@SingularityDan]

Very bisexual.

[@justinescopete3829]

As someone that identifies as bisexual and queer and tall (6’5 ft), watching this podcast makes me feel so seen in all those aspects. Another banger y’all.

[@livemoller792]

I love the idea of identifying as tall

[@ChloeTheePayne]

i love being bi and listening to other people talk about being bi, what a delightful freaking time

[@thejobbernowl]

The dropout crossovers continue

[@lutilda]

I can't wait to see Jordan and Kendahl on Game Changer. ❤😂

[@bertoandon9681]

@@lutilda Newly web game 2!?!?

[@Jason_Bryant]

Honestly, when Kenkald mentioned the WNBA, I felt like it was a crossover with dropout's Smartypants Society.

[@fenestrapain]

11:22 “the difference between straight and queer is much bigger than the difference between bi and gay.” Yes. This. And this is honestly why I prefer using the term “queer” to describe myself even if “bi” is more technically correct, but queerness is about so much more than sex. My politics are queer, my perspective is queer. So much of the queer experience gets reduced to sex and I’m so grateful Grant is really speaking to this nuance. And I think he nails it in his response to this (yeah maybe uninformed m, lacking nuance) question at 24:45

[@rainbowdiamond6039]

you put to words my thoughts rlly well, ty

[@leicean]

Y’all collecting the dropout cast like pokemon heheheh

[@ZenMeoww]

as a bi person with a straight man for 8+ years - i greatly appreciate the question you all answered about regret of not being with a woman. i took a DEEEEEP breath because i ADORE my partner and i am so happy with him - but I have wondered many times if i would regret not being with a woman ultimately. I really needed this convo and i didn't even know it! thank you for all of your honesty and vulnerability here. it made a difference for me!!!

[@marvelholt21]

Generally for me, the division of pan, bi, and queer, is whatever makes the person identifying as it happiest. I found pan when i was younger, and ive really found that the definition of pan in my mind is "attracted regardless of gender" and bisexual is "attracted to people with gender as an influence." How is that different? Idk, its what feels best.

[@mal3diction]

Fun fact I like to share because I spent literal years kinda passively wondering what the difference between bi and pan was: The "bi" in bisexual refers to the two orientations, not the number of genders to which one is attracted. To expound, when scientists were first trying to define sexuality they came up with homo- and hetero-sexual attraction (same and not-same attraction). Then when they were surveying people to try to figure out what percentage of each was in the population, they found out that some people were replying as both. Thus, bisexuals have same-sex and not-same-sex attraction. The difference between pan and bi is largely aesthetic/personal, but bisexual was never trans or enby exclusionary, since they would fall under either same or not-same attraction. Edit: To clarify, queer theory has gone a long way since the literal foundation of the study so I'm not saying the labels have to mean the same thing to everyone today. Just trivia that took me a long while to dig up.

[@cael_aj]

That's how I see it too. I identify as bi rather than pan because I'm attracted to different genders differently. Gender does influence my attraction but I would certainly date trans and non-binary people.

[@shwajo]

The only thing that gives me pause is, if something boils down to "pick the label you prefer", then they aren't really, hmm.... academic labels? Like, okay so myself and other people have been screaming for lifetimes now that "we were born this way". Born this way means no "picking" happens at all, at any point of the process. The only choice you make is whether you accept yourself or not. I do feel like there need to be academic terms, so that people can have the big conversations about things like policy, legislation, and research. And in those contexts, the words need to have reliable definitions that aren't different from person to person. If the only difference between bisexual and pansexual are "what they mean to you" and "vibes", then the words are kinda... useless? They become more like a sexual preference astrological sign at that point, and not something that can be meaningfully understood. Sometimes I just wonder if there is only one "multi" sexuality and all these arguments over exactly which word you like the most is a matter of _type_. But other sexualities don't seem to have this problem with allowing for all these different type preferences. Are you a submissive straight man? Congrats, you're a submissive straight man. Are you a gay guy who prefers cis-men? Congrats, you're a gay guy who prefers cis-men. We don't throw away 'gay' and 'straight' just because of the extra details. But suddenly, somehow, for bisexuals, it's like... are you a bisexual who needs to get to know someone before you feel attracted to them? Congrats, you're a... demisexual? What? It's like, somehow, ONLY for bisexuality, our more individual preferences make us feel like the word isn't "enough" anymore. I always wonder why.

[@T.Florenz]

@@shwajo the words aren't meaningless, for example a bi woman could be attracted to her own gender and not-her-gender, but that attraction could exclude cis-het men. Whereas a pansexual person has the potential to be attracted to any person regardless of gender, body presentation, etc. It's a small, semantic difference, but it's important to the people using the labels. Also, this is just my understanding of the words, so the differences between the two could be more or less depending on someone's understanding of them. If we outgrow the need to differentiate and find new words, that's fine and great. But I like the difference, as someone who claims bi as a way to express why gender and physical presentation do matter to my own sexual attraction to others. It helps me to define my experience to others and find community and understanding, so it's still useful and good. 🧡

[@aliross2720]

@@shwajo More people are identifying as part of the community not out of a true sexual identity, but because it is trendy to do so, or because they believe sexuality is “fluid.” This undermines biological explanations for sexual orientation. Gay rights activists fought for the “born this way” narrative because it came with greater social acceptance-and not only that, it is scientifically correct. Biological evidence supports a person’s sexual orientation to be hardwired before birth. It doesn’t appear that nonbinary activists have thought through the implications of denying If being gay is a choice, it makes it more difficult to advocate against attempts to change it. Within progressive circles, many otherwise ordinary, straight people have taken ownership of the word, because identifying as “queer” grants them the ability to claim sexual minority status. In a new the majority of people identifying as “queer” are nontransgender women. In my opinion, for straight men, identifying as “queer” can be a tool signaling their progressivism so that feminist women will date them. For the group of otherwise straight, female-typical women identifying as part of an oppressed class is intersectionality. Mainstream feminism, however, has encouraged an entirely new, malignant application, with groups who would otherwise be considered to have privilege clamoring for minority status so that their opinions are given more weight. Seizing one, or a handful, of the gender nonbinary identity labels allows a person to join the LGBT+ movement tangentially, without question, even when there is nothing L, G, B, or T about them. Then we have celebrities who are capitalizing on gender’s moment in the sun. If someone has a large public following and they announce they are nonbinary, it is hard to believe that doing so is anything but a publicity stunt to get people talking about them. Identifying as nonbinary provides social, and literal, currency, and public figures who “come out” as nonbinary obtain adulation and a newfound relevance as every media. Some nonbinary people will say that they don’t like labels like “gay” or “lesbian” because they are binary terms; attraction to a man or a woman, even in the context of being gay, is still considered attraction to a binary gender. Others have argued that you can be a “nonbinary lesbian,” which doesn’t make sense. In order to be a lesbian, by definition, one needs to be a woman. The whole thing illustrates how ill-conceived these theories pertaining to the gender spectrum are. (As for the term, “LGBT+,” it is made up of distinct factions that don’t really have much to do with each other.) For instance, bisexuality has been redefined to include people who have romantic feelings for people of both sexes. The “sex” part of “bisexual” is no longer required. Doing so lowers the bar for people to self-identify their way into the community. From what I’ve observed, sexual orientation does, however, play a role in the decision to identify as nonbinary. Because lesbian women tend to be more male-typical in some respects and because they are sexually attracted to women, some gravitate toward the nonbinary label because it is more socially acceptable than being a masculine woman or identifying as gay. The same applies to some gay men who have embraced the nonbinary label. When asked in media interviews about how they knew they were nonbinary, many profess a love of being a man, but also wearing makeup and high heels. One of the bedrocks of the gay community is drag shows, in which adult men dress up as very feminine women to lip-synch to pop. Feminine gay men and masculine lesbians, by virtue of being gender-nonconforming, are not trans or nonbinary; they are gender-nonconforming men and women. A big part of the nonbinary movement is the refusal to subscribe to traditional gender norms while also denying that gender has any meaningful correlation to biological sex. What it fails to realize is that it’s possible for a person to be gender-nonconforming while identifying as simply a woman or a man. By nonbinary activists’ definition, everyone on planet earth is gender nonbinary. If a man decides he sometimes enjoys putting on women’s clothing, does that mean he’s actually actually genderfluid? Not necessarily. He may just be a man who, for whatever reason likes to wear women’s clothing. We can acknowledge that some people are gender-nonconforming or gender-diverse, and encourage them to be who they are, without rewriting science to facilitate this acceptance. Gender has become trendy and being something other than female or male sounds exotic; a person appears interesting and ahead of the curve. By simply being known as nonbinary or genderqueer or going by “they/them” pronouns, it immediately conveys to other people that this particular individual is different and to some degree, special, because they are an exception to the rule, which could be expected in young people and especially teenagers. As more people take on these labels, being nonbinary has become a way to find community, a sense of belonging, and acceptance. It’s not so much about individuality as it is about group membership. “transgender” has expanded to encompass anyone who feels, in any way, different from what would be expected of them, based on their birth sex. This includes gender-atypical and gender-nonconforming people and anyone who feels even mild discomfort about their bodies. The widening of the application of what it means to be transgender means more people will potentially identify this way, thereby inflating its prevalence in the general population. If a larger percentage of people identify as transgender or nonbinary, this offers support for the argument that these identities are real phenomena and discrimination against them is unjust. But we can advocate for this acceptance without socially engineering numbers in favor of it. Doing so only leads to a further lack of clarity for those who will be inappropriately grouped as part of the community. Those who are genderfluid describe their gender, gender dysphoria is not a whimsical feeling that comes and goes depending on which direction the winds are blowing that day. If anything, the concept of gender fluidity calls into question the very idea of being transgender. The concept of gender dysphoria rests on the idea that gender is innate and that the brain of one sex exists in the body of the other. Gender fluidity suggests the very antithesis to this, that one’s internal sense of gender can vary by the hour. If one’s gender can change, why shouldn’t it be malleable to align with a person’s birth sex? The concept of gender fluidity argues against trans adults’ right to transition

[@estivalbloom]

finally hearing sane takes about bi vs. pan, biphobia/panphobia, and generally the whole "you're bi/gay and valid, but you annoy me" on the internet is so healing also I honestly expected Grant to say the hardest thing about being bi was his penis

[@victoriareyes8981]

I'm used to the version of Grant from dropout, where he puts forward the more goofy side of his personality, which I absolutely love, but I really liked seeing the more serious and introspective part of him as well

[@essendossev362]

Agreed! He had such thoughtful answers! I especially really liked how he talked about the potential of having regret in a relationship.

[@andrewdunn8778]

The difference between bisexual and pansexual is whether you figured it out in person in the 2000s or on Tumblr in the 2010s

[@Anteksanteri]

as a pansexual who never used tumblr, i approve this message.

[@j.t.rhoads7658]

I was outed as gay at 14 and never really got to explore and realized when I was 19 I was bi but I was already “known” as gay

[@xmorgan1123x]

I think what Grant said at 20:19 is what a lot of internet discourse about bi vs pan is missing, simply due to the fact that most of the people arguing are literal teenagers. Pansexuality as a term didn't come into the mainstream until like the early 2010s, and even then it was mostly used by young people on the internet during the wave of hyper-specific MOGAI terms people were using to try and explain their exact feeling/experience, which never tends to work out because experiences are as individual as the people who have them. And I keep seeing teenagers nowadays say the definition has to do with whether gender plays a role in your attraction, but that's not how the terms were defined 10-15 years ago. No one can decide on a definition because there is no material difference lol

[@unholierthanthou7748]

I've always understood it as pan = all and bi = multiple but not all but honestly there's nothing wrong with the meaning changing. Words are meant to serve us. People get really caught up in definition but all that really matters is that people are happy with whatever language they do or don't choose to use to describe themselves

[@BringerOfGeekdom]

you’re mostly right, but I was seeing this discourse online when I was a teenager…15 years later I’m 30 and I still see people my age fighting about it, except now they’re fighting with teenagers too XD. I can promise that most of the stuff people write off as “kids these days” started way earlier

[@albaniaalban]

My sexuality caused me so much angst during my early twenties; I would constantly be second-guessing myself whether I was gay or straight because it wasn't an even 50/50 split down the middle. Then an older gay colleague told me 'just pick whatever feels best, and if it doesn't fit, pick something else'. Somehow, that thought had never occured to me. Now I have been comfortable in my identity for almost ten years, and it's a heck of a lot easier (and more fun!).

[@robyn6174]

bi v pan to me is essentially answering the question of whether you like yellow or purple on your flag

[@NomNomGohan]

For how silly of a role Grant plays in the Droupout-verse, he actually is extremely cool and wise about a lot of the stuff discussed here. What a great tall boi

[@issacyoung7876]

fun that jordan brought this up but i’m a trans bi man who’s married to a cis bi man! bi men dating each other does weirdly feel rare, but i think if we rounded pan/bi/queer men who are dating other pan/bi/queer men together it’d probs be a higher number

[@hippie1325]

I felt very seen when Grant says as a bisexual you have to choose who you’re peacocking for. Cause the way you try to attract a man is not the same as trying to attract a woman. And depending on if that man is straight or also bi, the conversations you have with the man are different from with the woman, especially on social issues.

[@jessicarose1393]

I am bi and the way I've always differentiated between bi and pan is that bi is "being attracted to more than one gender" and pan is "being attracted to people regardless of their gender." So much of the same crossover, for sure. Whatever identity speaks to you- great! If it changes later- also great! If it doesn't change- again, great! Thanks for the pod, y'all.

[@taylor3950]

Yeah that resonates for me too. I’m attracted to more than one gender but gender does matter so for me pan doesn’t fit

[@pixiel1xie]

I think a reason why the bi/gay split is so much more contentious with wlw compared to mlm is due to patriarchy! Gender isn’t symmetrical, it exists in a hierarchy, so the experience of being gay and not being attracted to men in a male centric society is distinct to being gay and being attracted to men. I think it makes lesbians a lot more sensitized to… men I suppose? I’m bi myself, so I am a strong advocate of bi gay solidarity, but it’s valuable to try to understand the root of the sentiment I think.

[@swiftjoon]

as a bi nb fem who's dated more women than men i agree! imo a lot of bi/queer women who have never dated women rly struggle to free themselves from the shackles of comphet and gendered dating roles

[@Baymax872]

My boyfriend previously identified as pan and now identifies as bi because he likes the colors of the bi flag so much better. And that's how easy it can be folks. As Grant said in the video, you are bisexual if you say you are. No need to gatekeep, please. I see a lot of comments of people trying to split the hairs on bi versus pan and I just don't think it really matters at all. Me and my boyfriend both identify as bisexual but not necessarily biromantic. And even bisexuality can be a spectrum. Like my boyfriend is definitely attracted to people regardless of gender but he is slightly more attracted to biological females because boobs. I am similar but almost opposite. I tend to be more attracted to people with more boyish/slender features regardless of gender. Although the squishiness of curvy girls is very nice for cuddling, imo.

[@claytongriffith8323]

As a bisexual (I usually go by queer) nonbinary person. So when people tell me bisexuality doesn't include trans and nonbinary people I just blankly stare at them. Edit: the definition of pan that I work with is the whole "I don't care about/see gender for my partners/romantic interest" rhetoric I see attached to pansexuality. And there context of gender does impact my relationships, like it doesn't determine attraction but it's a factor.

[@Bride-MarieBaker]

To the question about who is more accessible to bisexuals, men or women, I think Grant's answer can be expanded. Men in general are more accessible to bisexuals, regardless of the bisexual person's gender. I feel like a missing piece of the "Bisexual women pick men over other women" discourse, is that men are more readily available to date. If it can be true that sapphic women are chronically shy and men are chronically aggressive, it makes sense that bisexuals would experience men as being a more available/active dating group.

[@cosmomomo]

uncritical support for putting makeup on in the subway, the lighting is GOOD and the pole grease HELPS

[@OhMySavy]

Agree with Jordan on the definition of bisexual. I think it’s important to use this definition because the one Grant used assumes bisexuals are not attracted to NB people. I agree that we should just use whatever label we want, but I also think it’s important to not spread biphobic rhetoric that implies bisexuals are transphobic 😔

[@annarajala578]

I also agree. My understanding of bisexual is attraction to people of your gender and other genders. My understand of pansexual is attraction to people regardless of gender, as in, you're attracted to people without considering their gender. Considering those definitions, I gravitate towards bisexual, because I do notice gender, and the way that I'm attracted to people changes depending on their gender. But I also agree that they are two sides of the same coin and can be used however people want to.

[@andrew20146]

I really find the idea of people being attracted to men and women and not NB people to be very strange. Do these bis even exist?

[@unholierthanthou7748]

​@@andrew20146 As a queer nonbinary person who's generally assumed to be a woman they absolutely do. I've met a bi people who insist I must be a woman because of my appearance or that insist I'm not trans because they're attracted to me. Obviously not all bi people lol (my wonderful partner is actually bi lol), but it is something that exists

[@fyrfytin-27]

​@@unholierthanthou7748 i think that has to do more with people being enbyphobic rather than not being attracted to enbys

[@unholierthanthou7748]

@@fyrfytin-27 I'd say it's both transphobia and people not being into nonbinary folks. They're not attracted to nonbinary people so when they see someone they don't perceive as nonbinary they project their own idea of that person onto them instead of just accepting they're nonbinary

[@Erin.Randall]

The “stop crying” 31:19 was way funnier than it should have been

[@chriskagamine358]

The way I understand the difference between Bi and Pan is: Bi: Attraction to 2 or more genders. If you're attracted to every gender, then you can say "attracted to the following 2: similar genders, and different genders(obviously each persons sexuality is more nuanced than that, but this is one way to help people understand where the 2 came from) " Pan: Attraction regardless of gender. Pan people tend to be the people that focus far less on the gender of someone, and far more personality. So, the way I perceive bi vs pan, is basically that Bi people are more likely to break down their attraction in percentages (as and Autistic Bi man I am guilty of that); while a pan person cares less about breaking down gender information, as they just care about the person

[@astroace]

I'm re-listening to this podcast after a rough coming out experience and I cannot say enough how comforting it was for y'all to talk about the unique and nuanced experiences of dating while bi. I'm a bi transman which has a whole other set of complicated convos with relationships in general but I feel reassured and seen with Grant talking about those awkward moments. Coming out as bi to straight women or for me coming out as trans to gay men can feel like fumbling and trying to "prove" you're queer enough or masculine enough. Thank y'all so so much for having this convo 💚💚💚

[@8lovetolaugh]

1st and foremost thank You for bringing on a bisexual man. They are very often invisible in the community/conversation. Which makes me very sad. So from my understanding Bi means attracted to and has the potential to have meaningful interactions (romantic and/or sexual) with those genders like ones own or different from one’s own. Whereas Pan means able to have those attractions and interactions regardless of the other persons gender. For me that feels like a difference might be that gender presentation doesn’t affect how I might be attracted to or interact with someone (if I feel like I’m Pan). Which is why I still feel like I’m probably Bi. I do feel like the way I feel attraction does change depending on how the persons gender presentation ‘presents’. I love how some of my younger friends say ‘I’m Pan which means I’m attracted to hearts not parts.’ I think that is a sweet way to simplify it down. I will admit I have been attracted to a person before/ during/and after transition. And the thing is I was attracted in different ways during each of those parts of their life. So yeah, I think Bi still works from what I keep studying and trying to understand about it all.

[@elitettelbach4247]

Really great interview! As a bi guy, I felt so validated by this conversation. Always love hearing more from Grant.

[@ItsJesMe]

"Bi" vs. "Pan" As a bi, who's friends with pans, I think -at least for me - the distinction is "any" versus "all"? I tend to be attracted to a person's gender performance (congruent or subversive), so like how they "wear" their gender performance. And that can be the same as my gender or not. Whereas, my understanding of pan is more like they're "genderblind"? Like they're attracted regardless of gender. This is speaking only in relation to attraction (sexual) as opposed to feelings (romantic) though and my (gray-ace) experience, though. I'm sure it's a little different for everyone. Edit: I will also say that there's also a degree of "establishment"? with the "bi" label/identity, though. As an older millennial, I do have to admit that i have some bias toward the label anyway, since "pan' is a newer term to me.

[@beckmannm]

Except that if you look back at bisexuals describing their experiences in the 70s/80s, many of them are "attracted regardless of gender", like it's not a new pan thing! Pansexuality falls under the same umbrella, it's just bisexuality wearing a different hat. Luckily, we all love hats!😂

[@shiny_pichuu]

was so excited to see this in my feed!!!! grant is so fun. could listen to you three talk together for hours

[@heyitsam6407]

sooo true about dating someone w / similar preferences. I'm bi and my partner is pan and it is so fun and and connects us rlly deeply :)

[@Waterflame]

22:20 I always explain the difference like this: Bi = The gender of the person is part of the reason for the attraction; Pan = The gender of the person has no bearing on the attraction.

[@rebeccafrazier4047]

Their voices harmonized while saying thank you ❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@sinatrasmafiaconnections]

20:40 for what it’s worth, as someone who’s studied queer history & anthropology (wrote my capstone on it & will hopefully be going to grad school for it soon🤞!!), bisexuality has ALWAYS included more than 2 genders/nonbinary/gnc folks! the clearest instance of this is famously in the bisexual manifesto from 1990’s “Anything That Moves: Beyond the Myths of Bisexuality” which contains the following: “Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or dougamous in nature; that we must have "two" sides or that we MUST be involved simultaneously with both genders to be fulfilled human beings. In fact, don't assume that there are only two genders. Do not mistake our fluidity for confusion, irresponsibility, or an inability to commit.” In other words, while you could totally ID as pansexual for whatever reason you wish, being attracted to more than simply men and women/being attracted to nonbinary or gnc individuals has always been part of bisexuality !!

[@laurenanne2854]

57:16 "make him put on a wig" got me 💀

[@MrIrrationalSmith]

Man... I am so here for this.

[@coreenjermaine7526]

As a 26 year old bi/pan, I am clueless when it comes to performing sexuality and man is it awkward sometimes 😅

[@judysm95]

As a fellow bi, I feel like the ideal relationship doesn’t require me to perform a sexuality lol. And is comfortable with fluidity and nonconformity if/when I feel like it.

[@Aelffwynn]

I know it was a brain fart, but I love "stris" as a contraction of straight and cis lol. I think we can make that happen as a word. This episode was healing for me. I'm a bi woman married to a stris man (lol). I occasionally wonder what it would have been like to marry a woman instead. My biggest "complaint" (if you can call it that) is being with someone who will never fully understand womanhood or being queer. That said, we got married because we match on so many other things. No one is going to be able to understand my experience 100%, and that's okay.

[@EmilyElements]

This video made my little bi heart so happy, thank you 💜

[@caitlincarroll4585]

The definitions for bi and pan that have felt most right to me are these: Bi - gender plays a role in my attraction to someone, and I'm attracted to multiple identities. Pan - gender does not play a role in my attraction to someone and I'm attracted to multiple identities. Based on those I identify with being bi because how someone identifies with their gender identity is something I can be attracted to.

[@caitlincarroll4585]

An example of feeling bi that feels right to me are like this: "Michael is such a many man it's a boner killer; and Tate is so gender fluid it's so attractive."; "I love to feel like a caretaker and protector when I'm with a woman, and I love feeling an absence of gender roles when I'm with a gender non conforming person". These of course are examples, NOT across the board facts.

[@caitlincarroll4585]

All of that said to add my thoughts to the conversation, and in no way negate what was said in the podcast. All y'all are amazing!!!

[@stephaniesyed7909]

This is my perspective as well, and conviently means I use the flag with my favorite colors 😅🩷💜💙

[@naxp42]

Thissss thanks!!!!

[@byebyecitybyebye]

it's fun, now, as a nonbinary bisexual, looking back on my life, and realizing how 100% of childhood crushes and exes were also bi, queer, and/or nonbinary... and it still took me SO long to admit it and finally come out myself.

[@MyNameCourtney]

such a great episodes ❤

[@honeyjinks]

On the lesbians preferring lesbians thing, I think a lot of people find it important to date someone with the same experience in what they consider to be a vital part of their identity (gender, race, sexuality, religion, financial status, etc.) and I truly think that's what a lot of lesbians who prefer lesbians feel. The ones on reddit/tik tok that spread hateful shit tho, honestly they're not real and I'm gonna pretend they don't exist.

[@lacey892]

I do get that... but as someone who dates any gender I've had a hurtful number of lesbians act like (and actually say) that prev relationships w m3n make me 'dirty' or like 'tainted'... like they're having secondary contact w a dick.

[@honeyjinks]

@@lacey892 Yeah that's weird and those people need to touch grass... a majority of adult lesbians do not feel that way and internet discourse really skews perspective

[@capedog69]

"Is there anything you want to plug?" Me, Grant. Please plug me.

[@TrueRomancer04]

Since it wasn't really touched on, all of the "to whom do I peacock" struggle of monogamous bisexuality applies at orders of magnitude larger for bisexual polyamorous folk. Against all apparent logic. 😛

[@jarodh-m6099]

I learned facts that validate my feeling that Grant gives kinky Midwest dad energy.

[@joannalewis6646]

Kendall having my same laugh, on an episode where I feel seen. Love it

[@toastandlove]

I relate to Jordan and Grant so much. I dated a guy (as a girl) who was very dommy, but I always, always paid for our dates. He asked finally if I was trying to findom him and I was like “no, it’s just that I asked you out so I feel like it’s only right that I pay”

[@ambitiouspants]

when i see people put on makeup on the train, what's going through my head is "oh god if this train stops suddenly and you poke your eye out and you make me see that and scar me for life, i will never forgive you," which has never happened but it is my nightmare every time (if you know of a case where this happened, PLEASE do not respond to this comment to tell me about it)

[@evaleveejets2527]

Worthy 1 hr 💗💜💙

[@gracecampbell4556]

When he says "Planet Coaster" and I have that, played Roller Coaster Tycoon, and loved the Zoo Tycoon and Planet Zoo games. LOL For anyone else reading for labels, I chose bisexual because I know for a fact I am not pan because I am not attracted to those two are non-binary or transgender. I think it's super important to be confident in who you are and tell your dating partner on the first or second date that you are said label. Some people are cool with it, and some people aren't, and wasting your time with someone who won't accept you is just stupid. I'm also a bisexual who hasn't been with a woman! I just know I am attracted to them beyond admiring their aesthetics! Being married to a man and being married to a woman there is a HUGE difference. lol Men are brought up different than girls and have different social expectations, so the dynamic will be much different that it would be with a woman.

[@kkurajam]

Not gay people not knowing what the NBA stands for this why i love hanging out in queer spaces

[@clairerousell]

Now I need recommendations of those lesbian romance novels,,

[@judysm95]

She talks about them in the Deison episode a few weeks ago

[@keikinou]

I’m bi and nb and so is my spouse! It’s nice to be with someone that just gets it bc in the past I’ve definitely had problems.

[@user-vt7sg6ou5p]

SHOUT-OUT TO BI PEOPLEEEEEEEE 🩷💜💙

[@piano-piano-]

I’m a gay man and never new putting planet coaster in my dating profiles was the key to success 🧐. Guess I’ll rewrite it again

[@bananak.37]

hhh minirant: even when i outed myself as bi as early as i could, i still got dumped later on in the relationship bc of it. they were uncomfortable with it, but decided to pursue anyways- which sucks.

[@spikemonster7857]

WENT ALL OUT ON THE THUMBNAIL

[@rachelandrews7958]

“Master of Business Administration” is the best part

[@RoboticComplexity]

As a femme NB that identified as bisexual, I always say that my sexuality means I am attracted to people of the same or a different gender. I too came out as bisexual in the early 2000s lol so maybe we're just old.

[@thelovelymadbs]

I love Grant so much!

[@calliemyersbuchanan6458]

In Jordan's defense, i associate putting on makeup on the train with someone on their way to an audition so....

[@jordanmyr1ck]

You're not wrong!!!

[@lesleyplowman1395]

Lol Bi vs Pan in my mind is choose which flag you think is the prettiest 😂 ❤

[@cain5783]

Im bi and trans and my definition of bi was always the same as Jordans “attracted to genders the same (or similar) to mine and different” I don’t think it’s any different from being pan tbh I just came into my queer identity in bi community and with bi elders around me and my shallow reason is I like the bi flag more

[@AetheriusComics]

The part about always have to come out again and again. I think at this point, everyone has to always come out. Including hetero people, as some people will assume a slightly feminine guy is non hetero, so he has to clarify. Or a slightly masculine hetero woman. etc. Also, sometimes two men who hang out a lot, are assumed to be a non hetero coupler. So, everyone goes through this sort of thing. The, 'are they a couple or just friends' thing. And everyone misjudges regardless of sexuality.

[@jimmz6]

i find that i have way to much in common with grant and now i know he also plays plant coaster (whitch is a very fun game i can confirm)

[@haley.franklin]

For me as a bi person, the difference between bi and pan is bi means liking multiple genders, and pan means liking someone regardless of gender. :)

[@GlizzieLizzie-l1e]

every dropout crossover makes me so happy!!!

[@arjc5714]

Bi vs Pan is VERY internally oriented. Their pool of potential partners is fundamentally the same for the vast majority of people, so unless you’re sharing a brain with them, you don’t need to sweat the differences. In talking with people on both sides of the divide, bisexuals in general seem to instinctively see gender as a meaningful construct and pansexuals tend to instinctively see gender as an afterthought. I.e., a pansexual is more likely to need to remind themself “oh wait, some people actually care how they’re gendered in public” and a bisexual is more likely to need to remind themself “oh wait, some people actually don’t care how they’re gendered in public.” Not that they’re not respectful of the difference, they just intuitively understand one side more than the other. But in practice, if you ARE the bi/pan person in question then pick the one you vibe with more or the flag you like better, and if you’re thinking about DATING a bi/pan person, the difference is usually irrelevant.

[@Cosmo_knight]

As a bi person who has witnessed bi/pan internet discourse for probably close to a decade now, I think this is my favourite way I've ever seen it articulated. Thank you for sharing it!!

[@fyrfytin-27]

Yep, the dating pool venn diagram is pretty much a circle

[@kelzbelz313]

38:34 I feel called out

[@Posidilia]

I pick the label with the flag I like the most

[@Hmm...Whats-Their-Name]

My understanding of bi vs pan is both attracted to all genders. Bi is bc of gender, pan is regardless of gender

[@Hmm...Whats-Their-Name]

Im bi, and I find gender an attractive quality even in agender people. I don't have types, but I do take gender into account and have different preferences for different ones. Pan people I've talked to have said they literally don't particularly notice, they just want a person they are attracted to, and it's just about attraction without any care about gender.

[@EShravyaa]

51:10 Jason Collins

[@jamiedelgado1484]

You guys should have me on to set me up with Grant. I'm only 15 min in, so sorry if he's not single 😂

[@jesstheultimatemess4632]

Roller coasters are very bisexual confirmed as a bisexual

[@rachelpetrilli3477]

People doing makeup while in transit is totally fine yall. They’re saving time. They slept an extra 5 minutes and they’re happy about it. Weird take. :)

[@randxm_purpx2672]

Only one waiting???

[@he.said.teenjiejer]

i’m trans masc (nonbinary, technically, but don’t love that term for me) and bi, so if the label’s transphobic i guess i’m fucked!

[@Tallulahxoxo]

People who think there should be more waiting 👇

[@ArtichokeHunter]

the part about breaking up with someone for a single weird comment is enlightening to me because my understanding of communication and like human thought processes was that if you like the person, you would express to them that that thing bothers you and see if they're interested in/capable of modifying that behavior or if there's a compromise. so i figured when people say the reason they don't want to see me anymore is that i called them "confident" three times in a month without expressing anything negative, that's bs. but i guess it's normal for people just to nope out the first time someone does something personally offputting? huh good to know and no wonder dating is such an uphill climb

[@rebeccafindlay6176]

The stories sound like they were very early in dating so they were getting to know each other. They weren’t committed to each other so they stopped seeing them once they realised they don’t enjoy their company when they’re being themselves. It’s not fair to ask a new date to change their behaviour because it’s a dealbreaker especially how they like to show affection like the example of baby talk.

[@ArtichokeHunter]

@@rebeccafindlay6176 mine have been early too but if someone doesn't like how im flirting with them I'd want them to tell me personally. To me that's not changing myself, it's learning a new person and it seems wild that I would ever get past the first few dates if I have to just instinctively match a person's preferences. I'm a talk-it-out person, I didn't realize how rare that is

[@rebeccafindlay6176]

It’s not black and white I’m sure there were other things about the people they didn’t love. It was two pretty common examples of someone not being right for you. Immigration comment highlights clash of values and the other person enjoying baby talk is just different styles of communication which is very important in a healthy relationship that you can communicate well which likely isn’t going to happen if the way they enjoyvcommunicating makes you immediately uncomfortable.

[@rebeccafindlay6176]

I wouldn’t change my method of communication because someone asked unless they were having trouble understanding me or I was being unreasonable by yelling or something. While they definitely could’ve talked through it and comprised themselves in the process they clearly didn’t want to date that person and they realised that when they got the ick. If you’re being genuine you shouldn’t gross out your partner so I think both people in that situation deserve partners more suited to their needs.

[@ArtichokeHunter]

@@rebeccafindlay6176 I'm not actually talking about those situations, I don't know details. Just the peepeepoopoo one felt like basically one joke didn't land and they're out, which is something I'm learning about in my current dating process

[@angelu2543]

JORDAN I LOVE YOU

[@josephkaye9938]

I would never reject him!!! He is beautiful and hot!!! Have thought that for years!!! 😊

[@dagnyholt8705]

3:14 me with Jojo Siwa

[@Calmseagull]

No no no no bi doesn’t mean only men and women. This is deeply ahistorical and a problem. That interpretation is just based on 11 year old literalists who just learned prefixes.

[@OGStarrSEC]

A bi woman may date women and genderqueer people but not cisgender men. A pan woman almost certainly doesn’t give a shit what gender you consider yourself, so long as they like you as a person. This is an example of how I’ve come to understand it. I’m nonbinary and go by “bisexual” despite also not being influenced by gender and have even had a few former LGBT friends question the validity of my sexuality because they deemed me a pansexual by their standards. Straight, gay, bi, pan, who cares? It’s all made up nomenclature to convey each individual’s preferences anyway. As I get older, I’m personally growing tired of self describing with labels, so I just use “bi” to keep the conversation going. If it’s objectively harmless, go for whatever feels right for you.

[@austinsebben1402]

Words and labels are made up, I believe I have heard from queer scholars of poetry that the famous ancient poet Sappho of Lesbos (real name and real Greek island) who the words sapphic and lesbian are named after, according to her poetry seemed to have been in love with a man at some point

[@Madelarby]

Has there ever been a trans person on the podcast, and will there ever be one?

[@worldssmallestfan]

40:00 I’m a straight male with straight wife and my wife loves to grill. I clean it up

[@michelleshelton1079]

The social is para-ing

[@erin1912]

holy shit

[@rachelpetrilli3477]

Just to be nuanced, while it does include all genders, to me, being pan is attraction to all people. Not just all genders. :) I think it defines the root of the feeling closer for me

[@lilgfbin]

damnn it's true that most people in the comments section are bi because i'm trying to find a lesbian's perspective on what was said about identifying as a lesbian while still being possible to end up with a man and i can't find anyone 😭 this confuses me so much because if you are indeed capable of feeling attraction to men in any way, why would you be against calling yourself bi? you can be bi and strictly date only women, because who you date is a choice meanwhile attraction is not, and being a lesbian literally means you, as a non-man, are only attracted to non-men. while being bi CAN mean that even though you do find men attractive, you choose not to date them. the thing is, that choice doesn't make you less bisexual or more lesbian. and i really think it's unfair to call lesbians who insist on this distinction "annoying" because in my opinion perpetuating the notion that there are some lesbians out there who might end up dating a man or who are attracted to them in any way, can be very harmful because it's what makes some men think they can "change" a lesbian or insist on having something with them because at the end of the day many of them aren't even serious about not liking men at all to begin with. i don't want to hear any more men (or even anyone tbh) saying "you just haven't met the right guy yet" when someone says they're a lesbian, much less see them be proven right 😭. it's crazy to me that someone can be unable to see the harm in this. sure, sexuality can be fluid, but the reality is that it's not for some people, and there are labels that exist to define both of these people. if you ask me why i think so many "lesbians" who are actually attracted to men as well label themselves as lesbians instead of bisexual, i'd say it's because it's a type of rebellion. a very very valid rebellion against men. they're attracted to them but they don't want to have anything to do with them regardless, so admitting they're bisexual feels, in a way, demeaning. like it goes against their principles to admit they in fact are attracted to men when their life experiences made them see them negatively. maybe they feel less valid or less accepted within the queer community to have even the smallest bit of "straightness" related to them. i'm saying all of this because i personally deal with a lot of these struggles. i identify as a lesbian now but i used to identify as bisexual for 5 years. then a lot of questions started popping into my mind, they appeared exactly the same day that i did a bit more than just kissing a guy for the first time. i realized i never even thought about doing any of that with a man in my whole life, i always sort of assumed i'd want to do it when i fell in love with one, but i never fell for any man. fast forward a whole year of questioning what the hell that was, i found out my romantic/sexual view of women is entirely too different from that of men, i never had any experience with women at all, yet i know exactly how much i want it (a lot lmao), and i've been in love with three different girls in the past 3 years, none of which ever happened to me with a man. that is why i am pretty sure i'm a lesbian, but even so, i STILL question it. because i know i personally dislike the idea of being into men and if i really deep it, i have all those thoughts i listed above (the ones about people who identify as a lesbian while actually still being into men). not in the sense that i suspect i might like them, i truly don't feel that attraction, but sometimes i wonder if that's just something i convinced myself of, if this is just me rebelling against men due to past experiences, if it's because i find it shameful to be into men when all i want is to fit into queer spaces, if it's demeaning to let a man "have me", etc etc. because sure i do think those things (lmao) but i didn't always think that way, not for the 5 years i was convinced i could be attracted to men and yet i wasn't (beyond a kiss or fleeting crushes that were really just me acknowledging a guy is good looking and assuming i must like him then, which wasn't true). this is what made me find the courage to decidedly change my label to lesbian. basically, i changed it once i was able to confirm that my lack of attraction to men has nothing to do with my personal opinion of them or ideas of what it means to be "queer enough". still, i battle with these thoughts and wonder if maybe there is some of that deep within me making me label myself as a lesbian when i'm not. but that's because i'm scared of coming out as lesbian and then someday fall for a man, because that would perpetuate a harmful idea of lesbians that i really don't want to be part of. so yeah, seeing that some people don't care about this and can't see the bigger picture is a bit disappointing

[@sippuki]

the likes are at 666 i dont wanna like but i also do

[@rachelpetrilli3477]

Why are we still calling folks annoying..? Different strokes yall. Just say they’re for someone but not for you

[@Twinkdoesdrag]

i want him so bad