Is Jesus the Eternal or Begotten Son of God? | Episode 58

John 3:16 refers to Jesus as God's "only begotten Son." However, some theologians refer to Jesus as the “Eternal Son." There is a doctrine known as “eternal Sonship” which teaches that Jesus has eternally existed as the Son of God. According to this doctrine, Christ is and always has been the Son of God.
Dr. David K. Bernard examines what the Scriptures say about the sonship of Jesus Christ and why this debate matters to anyone who is committed to biblical truth.
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[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

I think one of the KEYS of understanding this subject is to CLEARLY IDENTIFY terms used and who uses them and THEIR definitions and compare that ONLY to the actual scriptures, when man creates the terms it is HE who defines them !

[@whatstheword24]

This was so beautiful. Well spoken, it's hard to find men articulating the truth, and I feel blessed to come across this video and find true spiritual understanding.

[@bobbiejoelizabethbenhassen9606]

Thank you for these teachings!!

[@bretmavrick-ph2ip]

Brother, how does, prov,30:4 fit in with this discussion,??,. Was is the son in this verse eternal,??, or is it a prophecy,???

[@MaVericK-cu2oq]

Brother,,,how does Proverbs, 30:4,,,balance in thought process,,,is the writer speaking in a prophetic means,??,,,,,connected with jn,3:13,??🙏

[@germanwulf40]

There are thousands of theological beliefs throughout the world, and trinitarians are literally the ONLY ONES that spew the line "you just have to take it by faith" and still expect people to convert on that.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

Dr. Bernard, @ 67 years old and raised in Baptist back grounds I always thought there were ONLY 2 views of God, the "Trinity" and the Jehovah s Witness, as I studied the scriptures I began to see what appeared to be a DIVISION of Spirit & Human in Jesus, I actually was coming to what Y'all call a "Oneness" belief, I'm thankful for your work, books and how you explain the "Oneness" position, though there are still a few questions I actually think I'm more "Oneness" in my belief that the other.

[@pugnaciousnoobeginnings8997]

Praise God my brother! I hope these are helpful to you, they were and still are to me. "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24 here Jesus clearly says that God is A Spirit. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3 here, we see Jesus praying to the Father (John 17:1) and Jesus says that the Father is the ONLY TRUE God. Jesus makes it very clear that the Father Is a Spirit. We know that God from other Sciptures is the ONLY Holy One. So the Father IS the Holy Spirit. When asked about the Commandments Jesus said Deuteronomy 6:4 was the chief of them and then in John 4:22 Jesus says, "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." Here He is saying that the Jews KNOW Who God is, in that God did not hide His nature from Abraham or Moses or the rest of the children of Israel when He told them that He was One.

[@samliedtke]

One of the interesting things I learned recently is that in OT thought, a king (human) and the principality (spirit) influencing him were essentially components of the same seat of authority. This adds context to the interplay of Isaiah 14 where the king of Babylon is referenced alongside the spirit of Lucifer as though they are one and the same person - in the context of authority, they take the same position. With this in mind, passages about Jesus at the right hand of the Father (Acts 2:33, Ps 110, etc) or gaining the throne as if He wasn't already there (Matt. 19:28, Rev. 12:5), start to take shape as describing this setup. Jesus of Nazareth is the human manifestation of God the Father's authority, which is necessary for Him to take His physical throne as King of kings when He returns. Of course the "fullness of the Godhead" is in Jesus Christ, but His human birth and resurrection victory over death/hell/the grave made Him worthy of that throne on earth; He deserved it as the Creator, but He also earned it as a human (Philippians 2:5-11)

[@Tyler-xf4kf]

@@samliedtke could you send me resources on where you found this information? Very interesting and makes a lot of sense

[@lonniesatterfield1770]

To:@REVNUMANEWBERN. Your first clue that God is not just ONE person is that Jesus was talking to Someone while He was on the cross by saying " My God, my God , why hast Thou forsaken Me?" The Trinity is the God of the Bible (I John 5:7) (Prov 4:7)

[@ralphowen3367]

The Son of God was the humanity of the Deity.

[@nelsonstiveensmurciabrinez24]

Dios te bendiga hermano, últimamente se están armando argumentos con lo de los "dos poderes en el cielo" supuestamente registrada en el judaísmo del Segundo Templo, he oído de esto pero la verdad no se que es, no se si usted hermano David sepa de este tema y puedas darnos contexto.

[@txgossjean]

Appreciate Brother Bernard's leadership and steadfastness!

[@SGranbat]

About the Son, however, God said: “Your kingdom, O God, will last forever and ever! You rule over your people with justice. 9 You love what is right and hate what is wrong. That is why God, your God, has chosen you and has given you the joy of an honor far greater than he gave to your companions.” 10 He also said, “You, Lord, in the beginning created the earth, and with your own hands you made the heavens. (Hebrew 1: 8-10 GNT) ------------------------ according yo this bible verse: Lord Jesus is both GOD & GOD The Son

[@pozorovatellidi]

@SGranbat God didn't say that. You invented a new bible.

[@ManlyServant]

that verses is taken from psalm and it refers to earthly king that is polygamic (so Not Jesus),so that king is already called "God" too (just like so many other king in bible)

[@ramdingaliana9711]

​​@@ManlyServant Which earthly king did God the Father call "Oh, God"? Which earthly king was called "the Son"? Here, God the Father is talking about Jesus Christ, God the Son. No earthly king's kingdom is eternal, only Jesus's kingdom is eternal. Oneness doctrine, no matter how hard I've tried to believe, is always rejected by the Bible itself. About the trinity, it could be wrong, too but it's the most plausible way to describe God, three persons in one God. Whose king's kingdom lasts forever except Jesus's?

[@ManlyServant]

@@ramdingaliana9711 david was called the son,and no,hebrews 1 10 isnt the father saying to the son,the right translation is "it",starts in hebrews 7 cuz its gender neutral, hebrews 1:7-8 And of the angels **_it_** says, who makes his angels as winds, and his ministers as a flaming fire,a but of the Son **_it_** says, Your throne is God forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. to which of verses about Jesus the father ever says unequivocally "You are GODS" (psalm 82 verse 6)?!,see i can do better,yes Jesus is special,Yes Jesus is Our Lord,he isnt THE ONLY true God,Father is (john 17:3,He isnt God alone,Father is (1 timothy 1:17)

[@Just_F.e.e]

I truly appreciate Dr. Bernard's ministry, diligence and life long commitment to teaching God's Word, through the Spirit of Truth. So much has convoluted the true nature of God.

[@timoconnor892]

He s the begotten son of God 🙏

[@thomasglass9491]

Eternal begotten Son of God

[@MARIOHAKAI]

@@thomasglass9491 Luke 1:35

[@danieldefonce]

Some of you are forgetting, or purposefully leaving out, the Gospel of John, where we read in no uncertain terms: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.” (John 1:1-2)

[@user-je9op9sm8i]

Have a deram

[@danladiojito9741]

Jesus is not God. Stop telling lies.

[@Trevor_Magers]

Fantastic teaching that is easily understandable. God bless you, Bro Bernard.

[@Elkwoman46]

Many years ago, I did not know that.... what people in our church believed to be the Trinity was actually a Tritheism view, where people believed that the Lord Jesus was not God while in the Flesh on earth, and they had a literal view of Three Persons of the Godhead, to the point where there were three Gods. Not comprehending any of this, I found myself not knowing which God to pray to, and I was truly overwhelmed, but I trusted that the Lord Jesus would show me Truth, and HE did. (I discovered over time, verses like John 14:14 were not acknowledged in these type churches.) In the Trinity view people, I discovered, do believe that the Three Persons are co-equal and co-eternal, and there was even a small Trinity booklet which showed a diagram stating that all three had separate egos. In my journey much later, there was even a small Christian bookstore online that told me that my salvation was at stake because, basically, I would not deny Isaiah 9:6 (that is, the Everlasting Father or Eternal Father). I said I would never deny that verse. But I believe that people who are searching discover John 4, where the Lord Jesus referring to the Father states that God is Spirit. So in the teaching of the Trinity, co-equal, co-eternal...if the Father is Spirit....IS the HOLY SPIRIT another Spirit? I am not alone to have noticed this. But even in 1 Cor 15: 45... the Lord Jesus is called a quickening Spirit or a life giving Spirit. 1 Cor 15:45 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. KJV Or how does one reconcile John 2:19-21 with Gal 1:1? I could go on and on. John 2:19-21 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. KJV Gal 1:1 1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) KJV To me, the following verse, tells us WHO came in the Flesh, and in fact, is quoted in all four Gospels at least in part, and surrounds verses pertaining to John the Baptist... Isa 40:3 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. KJV But even more, there is a reason why it was God Who had to die on the cross... Because of the Blood Covenants in the Old Testament. It was God Who made a Blood Covenant with Moses and the People, basically a Law Contract. And if anyone broke the Law Contract, they had to die...for there is no mercy in the Law. And it clearly showed that they could not keep the Law perfectly and nor can we. We are all in the same boat. BUT, the Lord Jesus came to fulfill what the Law required, and HE took our punishment our place... on the Cross by dying in our place and what we deserved...by the Law HE made. But that is not all. The Sabbath Rest was to show that they were no longer slaves and had rest, and the Lord was very demanding that they keep this strictly or it would have been completely lost if people began to make exceptions. I believe on the Cross, that Jesus became our Rest. And the Blood Covenant of Circumcision...to show that the Messiah was coming...it is why the Lord Jesus called Himself the Son of Man...because HE was the Promise, and in fact, HE was also the Promiser. I believe HE fulfilled a lot of things when HE died on the Cross. And why only God could do this. If one could consider why the Lord Jesus spoke to the Rich Young Ruler that way...bypassing the Beloved First Commandment and instead telling him about six other commandments. This young ruler did not even know he was talking to the God of the Universe, or even knew that HE asked him to follow Him. And then even more why the Lord said how hard it would be for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God, and those around Him were astonished beyond measure! They could not understand why the Rich, those who could afford the sacrifices (about 8,000 pounds of grain to make a 1,000 pound steer, for example) not be saved...what chance did the poor have?? But the Lord Jesus said with God all things are possible. And then the Lord Jesus made a New Blood Covenant with His Own Blood...one of Mercy and Grace. Love in Jesus' Name.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

God did NOT die on the cross, He left His Temple, He vacated His Earth Suit, the scripture is clear God is IMMORTAL, He cannot die

[@Elkwoman46]

@@REVNUMANEWBERN In John 16 the Lord Jesus says unless HE goes away, the Holy Spirit cannot come. James 2:26 says, a spirit cannot live in a dead body. Do you not think that the Resurrected Jesus is incomprehensible? God with us, in a Tangible Body to be with us forever. That ONE Who at the end of Rev. 7 Who is in the midst of the Throne, Who will wipe away our tears?

[@Elkwoman46]

Also, in Revelation One, Chapter 1:4 and 1:8 it is clear that the Lord Almighty God is the One Who is, Who "was", and Who is to come. Does HE not say that HE died? Rev 1:18 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. KJV

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

@@Elkwoman46 Yes, humanity died, He NEVER lost His divinity 1 Timothy 6:15-17 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath >>> immortality

[@Elkwoman46]

@@REVNUMANEWBERN Is that not the mystery of Godliness? How can God die on the Cross? Is HE not the New Adam, Conceived by the Holy Spirit, Begotten of the Father? Sinless. John 10:17-18 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." NIV 1 Tim 3:16 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. KJV

[@thehumanjesus]

What about words like GENESIS (Mat 1.1,18); GENNAO (Mat 1.20) and GINOMAI (Gal 4.4)? How can anyone have two beginnings, two coming into being via procreation?

[@theodoreritola7641]

what about Gennesis ch 1 vs 26 Then God said Let,,, US/// make man in ...OUR,,, own image and in... OUR,,,, likeness, WHO WAS TALKING TO WHO ?

[@saludanite]

I believe scripture is sufficient to explain all things. No rationalization or explanation is necessary. Jesus said that the coming Holy Spirit would alone teach us all things, and He alone would bring all things to our remembrance. We must hear what the Spirit says to our hearts through the scriptures, not what any man persuades us to believe, however well-intentioned. If we will NOT approach the scriptures expectantly, then we don't really seek the truth. Just consider the history of the organizations purporting to speak for God. Jesus said "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

[@11304800]

Acts 10:38 “How God ----anointed Jesus of Nazareth -with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”

[@claybornedevaughn2491]

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son

[@AstariahJW]

Yea he forgot that verse Jesus is only begotten son in heaven He had a beginning

[@jonquebyrd3105]

I believe it's speaking about When Jesus was raised from the dead. In Acts 13 they bring the verse up about being fulfilled when God said this day have I begotten you. So that clearly says he was begotten when God raised him from the dead

[@djalmajunior8818]

Kkkk

[@jirenpowell93]

Good

[@user-jf2xs9dt9v]

Exodus 3:14 & Matthew 11:27, together with John 12:44&45 &John 14:7&9 CLEARLY say what is needed, although there is much in GOD's Word to supplement these scriptures, make everything abundantly clear, I believe.

[@stewfeeds8989]

Jesus Christ is the eternal God as well as He is the begotten Son of God.?

[@thehumanjesus]

The “origin” (genesis, Mat 1.1,18) of the Son occurs when God “brought [him] into existence” (gennao, Heb 1:5) in the womb of Mary (Mat 1:20; Luke 1:35). Hence, Paul preached the Son was “made,” I.e., came into existence (genomenon, Gal 4:4) in Mary.

[@clarion1571]

Another note, the Nicene Creed does not use the term "eternally begotten". Rather, it uses the term "only begotten" - or μονογενής. The important statement is "begotten of the Father before the ages". What this means is that the origin of the Son is the very essence of the Father Himself, and not something external to God. The grammar of John 1 has the Logos "already being" as the first moment or instance - en arche. As I state in the previous comment, Christ cannot be God or the Son of God in any essential way if he is only a created being.

[@lonniesatterfield1770]

@clarion1571 - You wrote that Jesus could not be God. What are you going to do with the Scriptures that tell us that He claimed to be "God".,? (John 5:18, 10:33) The Trinity is the God of the Bible! (Eph 2;18, I John 5:7)

[@KevinDay]

He [Melchizedek] is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever. Hebrews 7:3 This verse seems to imply that the Son specifically had no beginning, not just his divine nature. God is timeless, so everything he does can be said to be done eternally. Dr. Bernard himself said in episode 1 that God's plan started with redemption through Jesus, and so one possible interpretation of Genesis 1:26 is that God is looking forward in time to the man Christ Jesus. You can try to argue that Jesus existed only in the mind of God before creation (but in that sense how are we or the Levitical priests not eternal?), or that he is the eternal spoken rationality (Word) of God, but I never thought that it was a problem to say that the Son is eternal, and I've grown up in Oneness...

[@thlipsislamont1352]

I want to know if you can please tell me! If the scripture teaches that the word of God was an eternity pass with the father. And we believe that Jesus is God. My question is, when was the word of God begotten in eternity?

[@KevinDay]

@@thlipsislamont1352 That's a nonsensical question... Eternity isn't just a really long time, it's timelessness. There was no "when" in eternity. He always was begotten. Being begotten didn't mean coming in to existence in a point in time to the original Greek speakers.

[@beverlyvandermolen5533]

Thank you so much for doing these podcasts. Would you be willing to address the issue of wine verses juice for communion? I had a pastor that taught that if juice was used in the communion service than we were sinning. Since I now have access to the internet, I have researched this subject for years and it’s still confusing. I now go to a church that uses grape juice but the pastor is very dedicated to God and the church is thriving. Can you give clarity on this subject please?

[@mousejackson2523]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqildXSDi8iditk here's a video of his that would help.

[@awillingvessel238]

great teaching!!!!

[@bretmavrick-ph2ip]

Begotten son❤,,,,but a question,,,Prov, 30:4🤔is this verse prophetic,??

[@TheSoulWinnersGuide]

The host says the Nicene Creed says "eternally begotten Son". I would like to know where exactly does he get that?

[@mg-ec9il]

www3.nd.edu/~afreddos/courses/43801/creeds.pdf

[@thomasglass9491]

@ACTS CHURCH In the Bible: Proverbs 8. ( 1 Corinthians 1:21 and other passages implied that the Wisdom is the Son of God.) In the Nicene creed: And in one Lord Jesus Christ the only Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages,”

[@TheSoulWinnersGuide]

@@thomasglass9491 begotten from before all ages does not mean eternally begotten.

[@thomasglass9491]

@ACTS CHURCH Yes it is! Ancient of days, before all ages, and eternity are synonyms.

[@TheSoulWinnersGuide]

@@thomasglass9491 no

[@Deborah-n1l]

This is an interesting and important topic, but what about Proverbs 30:4 and Daniel 3:25 which come well before the earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. Hmmmm?

[@dharshanabuddhamudalige2457]

who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,(Hebrew 5 : 7).

[@yasaaley]

Jesus in prayer to the Father said "3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." [John17:3]. Paul said "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." [1Corinthians 8:6]. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. Paul said there is one God who is the Father and from him are all things (including the Word). The Father is distinct from the Son. The Father sends and rewards the Son. If even the Father dwells in the Son they still remain distinct. Thomas addressing Jesus as his Lord and his God alone cannot erase the rest of scripture which distinguishes the Son from the Father. Thomas never said "Jesus! you are the Lord and God the Father." In John10:31-38 Jesus explained why he can be called the Son of God or even god. Jesus never claimed to be God the Father.

[@yittlebits1]

So a few points : 1. Is Jesus God or is Jesus the eternal God? 2. Mr. Bernard is saying that Jesus can be God EVEN THOUGH he has a human mother, but he can't be an eternal son BECAUSE he has a human mother. He goes on to say that Mary would have to be an eternal mother to have an eternal son. But that same logic can be used to say Jesus, in order to be God, his mother has to be God too.

[@maryhelencampos9964]

Mary was virgin vessel use as a surrogate/her womb ...Recall Yeshua Jesus said who is my mother /my brother/those that do the will of My Father ...

[@yittlebits1]

David Bernard is full of his own words. Luk 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. Joh 12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

[@davidderitis9068]

Well taught and explained !

[@purify1512]

What about the holy Spirit that concive in marys womb. Is he the one Lord of Thomas too

[@dinks0318]

Yes! There’s only one Lord according to Deuteronomy 6:4 and Ephesians 4:5!

[@raygsbrelcik5578]

Why, after so many Centuries, do men STILL not see the Obvious Truth, here? There IS but One "GOD and FATHER," and there is but one, "Only BEGOTTEN Son." GOD the FATHER is not the, 'Begotten one.' GOD the FATHER is He Who, "Brought Forth' the Son. Amen.

[@watchmanjason]

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. John 14:28 You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My father is greater than I. Revelation 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. Revelation 7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

[@ramdingaliana9711]

Those verses alone clearly distinguish God the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ

[@meditationandrelaxing5992]

Still you didn’t tel the meaning of begotten mean???? And what about adam he don’t have father mother so he will be great her then jesus

[@johnmiller7174]

Begetting is the way the divine essence is eternally communicated to the Son. Procession is the way the divine essence is communicated to the Holy Spirit. This man is teaching heresy.

[@jackiet5334]

Why is it, after Jesus' resurrection and presence in Heaven, as He speaks to His church in Revelation, addresses His Father still? Upon reading Revelation, there is a clear distinction of Jesus in all His Glory, AND the Father, sitting on the throne. If Jesus is the Father (which I can't believe from personal study), why wouldn't He say He was the Father in the Book of Revelation? He is seen as the Lamb of God, is seen "in the midst of the golden candlesticks, and He had in Hisright hand seven stars and out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. Why is it, that He tells John, "I am he that liveth, and was dead, and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen and have the keys of hell and of death"? Why does Our Saviour the Lord Jesus STILL refer to Himself as "The Son of God" (Rev. 2:18) Why is it that He refers to "MY Father" (Rev. 3:5) "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment and I will not blot our his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels"; among other references to His Father in the Book of Revelation? It would say to me that it is very important that we see our Lord Jesus AND His Father in heaven. Revelation declares all this. Again, Rev. 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne". Who has a perfect understanding of the Godhead, and there are still too many questions to be answered, and I ask myself, could God be testing us, as to how we handle the Word of God, where there are some slight inconsistencies (seen by our carnal minds) in understanding who Jesus truly is and God is waiting for us to just handle scripture as He reveals to each of us, without turning one man's idea into a doctrine.

[@ttmatt_8250]

There is only one God who is SPIRIT and that eternal Spirit was INSIDE the a man who was the Christ who is the lamb OF GOD. The son/body/human is NOT God because then that means that the Christ is God WITHOUT God being INSIDE OF HIM. “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom YOU HAVE SENT.” (John 17:3). “Behold! MY SERVANT whom I uphold, My Elect one in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.” (Isaiah 42:1) “You are My witnesses,” says the LORD, “And MY SERVANT whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I AM HE. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the LORD, And BESIDES ME there is NO SAVIOR.” (Isaiah 43:10-11)

[@orangemanbad]

Many get confused because they think the man Jesus is what we christians consider eternal. This is not the case. He eternally existed in heaven before being born in earth. Hence John 3:16. Jesus emptied himself of his heavenly power to carry the cross for us.

[@lethenhitch9439]

Hebrews 1 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (The Word/God Made Flesh) 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: (The express image of God`s Person, not another person. Yeshua and God are one person)

[@javierzunigajr9327]

Praise God our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Hallelujah Glory and Honor to the on true God in the identity of humanity of Lord Jesus Christ thanks to God and thank you brother David k Benard and all the congregation God bless you'll 🙌 🙏 ❤

[@theodoreritola7641]

who is the mediator?

[@Jrose0118]

Where in the Bible does it say three divine persons ?

[@theodoreritola7641]

Father son AND Holy spirit

[@madmartigan9371]

What verse says God is come in the flesh?

[@KevinDay]

1 Timothy 3:16; John 1:1, 14

[@theodoreritola7641]

WHY ?

[@ramdingaliana9711]

I just don't understand how people could believe in oneness doctrine when the Bible clearly states so many times that God the Father and Jesus, the Son of God are two distinct persons but they are, on the other hand, one, meaning united (I think because I'm not a Bible scholar)

[@tiffanyramphaga3347]

There's only one God not 3

[@jackiet5334]

Revelation 3:12: Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name". This and two other verses where Jesus clearly speaks of HIS FATHER, and HIS GOD........Rev. 3: 5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Also, Rev. 3:21. "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set own with my Father in his throne". Jesus Christ is everlasting, and sits at the right hand of God in heaven. Jesus clearly acknowledges HIS FATHER now. The Book of Revelation will soon be unveiled and our Lord has told us what is to come to pass. "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass, and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John". Rev. 1:1 Are we being gaslighted by this Oneness doctrine (if indeed it teaches that Jesus is the Father)? I can't care what man thinks or says, but only what the BIBLE says and that is good enough for me. In heaven, some day, the Godhead will be revealed to us, and we may all be surprised, but until then, to my little mind down here, the Bible reveals a separate Son and separate Father, Praise our God!

[@MrBears25]

Where does it say the Son is eternally begotten in reference to God rather than the Flesh?

[@JohnCamal]

Glory to JESUS THAT HE LOVE US & DIED FR. US SO THT ALL WHO ACPT HM AS. PRSNL SVR CN RCVD INMRTL LVE 1. DAY AGN? AMN

[@JohnCamal]

We. Cn see n GRDN OF GTSMNI JESUS. PRAY D 3 TME. & BCME. ETRNL. GOD. NO BDY. COUD KILL HIM THE TME OF DECTION FR ALL SINRS ? AMEN

[@yittlebits1]

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

[@jackiet5334]

If one teaches on their interpretation, then always leave it at that (THEIR interpretation), and don't make it sound like it is a sealed deal. It may take a lifetime for many of us to understand. And it may be that our Father wants us to believe by FAITH and not debate. I think humility should factor in when teachers bring in their doctrinal belief and always command the listener to search scripture for himself/herself and not take the opinion of a man as God's word. God is who He says He is, whether we comprehend this mystery or not. However, there are many clear verses that show us how the Father acknowledges the Son, as in Mark 1:11 ("Thou art my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased". I'm sure many of us read and re-read scripture and see both sides, Oneness or Trinitarianism, at different times, and I don't believe that our God is trying to confuse us. His ways are not our ways. I cannot understand the Godhead clearly at this point, and I cannot allow any theologian to try to influence me. We won't be able to blame our misunderstandings on some book we read; IMV we shouldn't make conclusions based on what any christian philosopher or historian believes, but on personal prayer and study.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

EXCELLENT POINT, being raised a UNregenerate Southern & fundamential Baptist till I was actually Born Again in 1972 I just accepted the "Trinity" because me teachers told me so, after a few days shy of 30 fasting and reading my Schofield KJV, I began to see a DIFFERENT Jesus than I had assumed & had been taught, the Spirit bec=gan to DISECT the person of Christ into Spirit, Soul, Body, then I began to understand BOTH of His natures.

[@jackiet5334]

@@REVNUMANEWBERN Thanks for responding. I hope you and I and all of us come to a full understanding, as the Lord permits, in His good time. Please note I just edited my comment as it didn't convey what I was trying to say. So sorry.

[@thomasbrisbane7122]

@jackie t. Beautiful point. Well said...

[@KevinDay]

Thank you for this confirmation. I have been studying this issue in-depth for many months now, and not a single argument given by Trinitarians could convince me of their side -- I always had an explanation. But I was reading scripture for myself and a few things challenged me personally: 1 Cor 8:1-4 (The "knowledge" that "puffs up" is that "there is no God but One.") Phil. 2:19 -- (The context is humility and the example Jesus set for us concludes with this: "Therefore *God* has highly exalted *him* ..." Not "he exalted himself" or "we exalt him" or "he became exalted"... but he was exalted by a distinct active agent referred to as God) And then the kicker that ties directly into that -- Heb. 5:5 -- So also Christ *did not exalt himself* to be made a high priest, The example of humility that Christ gave us was not just that he humbled himself and took on the servant, but that he then *did not return himself to the position of glory that he had before he was incarnated.* It took the Father raising him from the dead and exalting him to demonstrate *true* humility. There are many ways to think about *how* he did all of this, but to assert that our position is the only correct one and you must reject all others in order to be saved... is certainly not an example of humility.

[@acts238istheway3]

If there were three Gods and A Trinity I'd understand this argument. However, being there is only 1 God. EPH 4.5 COL1.15 jhn 14.7-11 That said I've been taught my whole life within these ranks that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are just roles or offices that were operated in. I agree but Dr Benard's explaination creates a question. When does the office of father cease? When does the office of son end? I'm not operating in either office even though I am both. My office of son still exist even though my parents are not involved in this post. Isaiah 9.6 prince of peace You can't be a prince w/o a king being your father.

[@luisgarciannomo]

The office of the father will not end, the office of the son will as it is stated in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

[@acts238istheway3]

After my parents are dead and the estate is settled. I will forever still be a son. I don't exist without my being a son. Just as the glorified human Body of Christ doesn't. Christ Glorified human body willl always be the Son of God...Not God the SON! The duties, the responsibilities of the role of son, ceases to be needed after all the church is redeemed. However, the only expressed image of the invisible God which is the Son of God forever exist.

[@lonniesatterfield1770]

This teacher is falsely teaching a ONENESS doctrine of God and denying the "essential" doctrine of the Trinity. He stated that Jesus was not the Son until He was born of Mary. He is not understanding the Scriptures and deceiving many by his false assumptions. Jesus is called the Son in PSA 2 and there never was a time that He didn't exist. He is from everlasting (ISA 9:6, Mic 5:2, Heb 13:8, Rev 1:7-8. 22:12-15) The BODY of Jesus was not just made by God the Holy Spirit (Matt 1:18) but rather was also made by God the Father ( Heb 10:5) and made by God the Son (John 1:3). The Trinity is the God of the Bible bc there are Three Persons that carry the name GOD. They are all Three equal and eternal and for the teacher to deny this basic Christian doctrine is to deny the doctrine of who God really is.

[@eddieyoung2104]

In the O.T. God was manifested in or by his angels, who appeared, spoke, and acted on his behalf, yet they remained angels. They were not God but separate beings to him, who as Gabriel said, stood in the presence of God (Lk 1:19). In contrast, Jesus was the first man who spoke and acted on God's behalf in a way no other man had ever done. This is why it says God was manifested in flesh, as opposed to being manifested in an angel. In other words, God was revealed by a flesh and blood man instead of an angelic spirit being. Jesus like the angels was a separate being from his father, who was revealing to the people his father's will, words, character, and salvation. John 1:18 puts it another way: 'No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath *declared* him.' No man has seen God, therefore Jesus wasn't God, but was declaring God.

[@kiwihans100]

'Eternal sonship' is a contradiction of terms invented to support a church doctrine of post second century! Why would the bible thousands of times use the word 'begat' and 'begotten' which ALWAYS indicates a BIRTH from a PARENT, a start of life and then use a term that Jesus was 'begotten' by the Father if he WASNT! But always existed? Why be called 'God's Son' if the Father had not been responsible for his life? Jesus testified "I live BECAUSE OF THE FATHER" John 6:57. ( also 5:26 'given')

[@olliew7225]

This explanation does not take account of the many scripture passages which say that the universe was created through the Son. How is that possible if the Son did not begin to exist until he was conceived in Mary’s womb as a human? Col. 1 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 1 Cor. 8:6 6yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. John 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 15John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ” Hebrews 1 1Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 10And [to the Son he says], “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; 11they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, 12like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed.a But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”

[@thlipsislamont1352]

It makes perfect sense. The son is creator of all things. Because the son is the word of God that was in the beginning in eternity. We are not questioning whether Jesus Christ is the same person as the word of God in the beginning, because he is. What we're saying is he did not get the title or become the son until he was conceived in the flesh. This is why you do not see any of the prophets calling him the Son of God in eternity. They did prophesy about the son that was to come in the future, no doubt. So Jesus Christ is the one that created all things, he just didn't have the name Jesus Christ or the role as Son of God until he was conceived in the flesh.

[@theodoreritola7641]

Is Jesus his own father ?

[@euston2216]

1:36 - "He was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary who was his mother, *his **_biological_** mother* ....." The supernatural conception in Mary's womb did _not_ involve a female reproductive cell. The supernaturally conceived child in Mary's womb was the manifestation of the one true God in true human form. The one true God "came down from heaven" (without leaving heaven) and implanted himself in Mary's womb in the form of a microscopic, genuinely human preborn child. That child - "the last Adam" - did not inherit genes from anyone, just as "the first man Adam" did not inherit genes from anyone. But "the first man Adam" was a genuinely human *_creation_* of God, while "the last Adam" was a genuinely human *_manifestation_* of God.

[@danieldefonce]

Master Luke: Amazing. Every word of what you just said… was wrong.

[@kiwihans100]

John & Peter were amoung the CLOSEST of Jesus disciples! they both have given personal testimony as to exactly who he was! John; "We had a view of his glory the glory that belongs to an ONLY BEGOTTEN SON from a Father" John 1:14 .Peter; "(We) were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received FROM GOD THE FATHER, honour & glory when there cam a voice to him from the EXCELLENT GLORY "Thisis my BELOVED SON in whom I am well pleased". ( 2 Peter 1:16,17) JESUS THEN IS GOD'S SON

[@kiwihans100]

Because of the need to justify the 'trinity' doctrine Jesus could only have been truly 'begotten' when he was born of Mary! This is False for many reasons! The most vital one is that Jesus testified clearly he, as God's Son said; "I came down from heaven" ( John 6:38). He told Nicodemus "No man hath ascended to heaven but he that descended fro heaven" ( John 3:13 ). Again ""I came down from heaven" (John 6:42). Again "What if you shall see the Son of man ascend to where he was before?" (verse 62) Then "I am from the realms above" (John 8:23). John explained "The word became flesh & we had a view of his glory, the glory of an only begotten son from the Father" ( John 1:14 ). Final prayer "Father Glorify me with the glory I had with you before the the world was" ( John 17:5). All worlds of oru Lord himself! Who can deny them? Paul knew this truth. Read 2 Cor 8:9. Phil 2:5-6) Amen! At least EIGHT clear texts from the bible most of which were by Jesus himself that he lived in heaven as God's only begotten' son long before the world existed. This highlights the great sacrifice his Father Almighty God in giving him up for us!

[@sergiospina9562]

Isaiah 43:10 You are my witnesses, says the LORD, together with the servant whom I have chosen, that you may know me and believe in me, and understand that it is I. Before me no God was formed, and after me there will be none. No God begotten from Eternity, no second person eternally begotten, the word of God is clear

[@GodlyDating101]

Well said!

[@mistyhelbert1907]

Just like when God over shadowed Mary and gave her a son by his spirit, it reminds me when God made Adam from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils and made him a living soul. Therefore Jesus is the second Adam in order to save us from our sins where Adam had failed…in remaining ONE with the Lord due to disobedience. This is my perception 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@th-rd2xh]

All you need now to be complete in your docrtine is to implement Lev 23 and not believe it has been nailed to the cross.

[@thomasglass9491]

To answer the question, is both! Jesus is the eternal begotten Son of God.

[@KevinDay]

Just curious: do you believe in Oneness or the Trinity? I didn't think "the eternal Son" was a distinguishing issue, but it seems Bro. Bernard is claiming that it is...

[@thomasglass9491]

@Kevin Day The trinity

[@ramdingaliana9711]

I just don't understand how people could believe in oneness doctrine when the Bible clearly statrs6so many times that God the Father and Jesus, the Son of God are two distinct persons but they are, in the other hand, one, meaning united (I think because I'm not a Bible scholar)

[@samuelknipp6978]

Revelation makes you sure. The Holy Ghost in you reveals this truth...God said in Jeremiah 29. They seek me they'll find me when they search with all their heart..Nit sought with their minds but with their hearts then truth is revealed..

[@madmartigan9371]

Okay, so he's saying Jesus is the son of God AND God in the flesh?

[@terryautry6493]

Jesus is the son of God and Jesus is also God. there is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, each being God but separate from each other. each are God but each are separate beings with different roles in our lives. Jesus is the only one of the Godhead that has a body now since He came to earth as human and He now lives in Heaven with His body. God the father does not have a body and neither does God the Spirit

[@ralphowen3367]

@@terryautry6493 You err in using trinitarian jargon which is not found in the Bible when you say God the Son and God the Spirit. Ŵhen Michael Servitus whom I do not agree with on all points of doctrine was delivered up to be burned at the stake in Geneva for opposing Calvin' trinity teaching, he was told he had one chance to live. If he would just say in recognition that Jesus was the eternal Son of God, he could go free. Instead he said no, Jesus is the son of the eternal God, and the trins burned him alive.

[@kiwihans100]

Why would the bible use the term 'Son' if the one called such had no beginning? The term itself means that a Father produced a son! The word 'begotten' also means what it says! The widow of Nain had an 'only begotten son (' mono genesis' exactly the same greek word as Jesus used at John 3:15,17. ) See Luke 7:12. Jesus said "I live because of the Father" ( John 6:57) Amen

[@clarion1571]

This is a false dichotomy that should easily be dismissed. What is begotten begets after it's kind. The Son CANNOT be begotten of the Father without begetting after His kind. If God is eternal, then His Only-begotten Son is eternal. Heb 1:1-3 vindicates that the Son is the radiance of the Father's glory and express image of his person.

[@maryhelencampos9964]

Very eye opening/The Father putting His Spirit In Emmanuel ( I can see Oneness ( thought provoking in a new light)even though I lean towards Trinity Of Father Son & Holy Ghost).Yet I do understand Oneness doctrine /Some Messianic Jewish Brethren Believers refers to the Godhead as Compound Unity.

[@maryhelencampos9964]

What if It was The Word (made flesh)that was placed in Mary’s womb when Holy Ghost overshadowed her(not egg and sperm concept) and Mary was just a surrogate...Vatican calls her The Mother Of God/Mormons believe in being a goddess etc. because Mary’s egg was supposedly used. Just a thought/ just dialoguing...King Jesus is LORD / do you have any input on the subject/just curious

[@ethiopiaandafricaethiopiaa9787]

Thanks for the Jesus pastor Devi

[@BYITW]

Amen

[@ralphowen3367]

Jesus' begottonness alludes to the days of his flesh. Begotten refers to being born of a virgin and being raised from the dead--the first fruits of them that slept.

[@Robertsrex941]

My God My God !!!!

[@taylordw]

@SamC182 good observation

[@Tmb31]

Excellent job, Bishop! As always. GOD bless you 🙏🏽!

[@socalindustrial1882]

How does the term son of God mean God was manifested in flesh?

[@aaronsanchez3141]

It doesn't.

[@gearyheidinewaccount3237]

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles,believed on in the world ,received up into glory.

[@aaronsanchez3141]

@Geary & Heidi New account that verse is referring to Jesus, not God. The angels already knew who God was. He created them. Jesus never existed until his birth. Another verse severely distorted for the trinity.

[@archangel_metatron]

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness,19because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them.20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.22Professing to be wise, they became fools23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like [h]corruptible man-and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

[@user-he7jm9vz8i]

Jesus is Eternal as God's Word. The Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. Before he came in Flesh form, He has existed as " The Word of God."

[@danieldefonce]

Some of you are forgetting, or purposefully leaving out, the Gospel of John, where we read in no uncertain terms: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God. He was in the beginning WITH God.” (John 1:1-2)

[@ralphowen3367]

Yes, word means voice there--or thought which became voice, but not a Person added to God.

[@pozorovatellidi]

@danieldefonce "He was in the beginning WITH God.” is incorrect translation to English, as in Greek a word is masculine, and in English it's gender neutral.

[@danieldefonce]

@@pozorovatellidi I’m sorry, but what are you even objecting to here? Gendered Greek words have no impact on how this passage is translated into English, and for the record there is nothing problematic with this translation (look up πρός which is the Greek word here translated as “with” corresponding to both the textual context and word definition). But by all means make your case here if you actually have evidence for contradicting hundreds of years of meticulously translated scriptures.

[@pozorovatellidi]

@@danieldefonce Logically it should be "It was in the beginning WITH God."

[@danieldefonce]

@@pozorovatellidi still false. λόγος or Logos from verse 1 is masculine, to which verse 2 is clearly and directly referring, evidenced by the word Οὗτος/Houtos (meaning “this; he, she, it,” depending on context) in verse 2. Here in verse 2, what/who else other than the divine Logos is Οὗτος/Houtos referencing, especially since the preceding verse is focused solely on Theos/God and Logos/Word and their relation to each other (both masculine)? Therefore, while “this” can also fit there, “He” is the most fitting meaning of the word Οὗτος/Houtos used in verse 2, which is pointing back to the λόγος/Logos in verse 1. Thus holy scripture can rightly read, “He [referring to the Logos which is also designated as God “Theos/Θεὸς” in verse 1] was in the beginning with God.”

[@FLDavis]

John : 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Jesus Is Equal with God Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. The Authority of the Son Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Philippians 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Colossians 1:15-20 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. The Rider on a White Horse Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

[@abdulvahid9043]

Scripture does nowhere say eternal begotten, nor differences between begotten and proceeding Interesting, both proceeding and begotten have their source, father, who on the other hand has no source So father is higher than both these,having no equal

[@JDaniel98]

Having read this man’s work I disagree. The eternality of the Son is in direct relation to his being the Word. The Word existed always, no thing was created without the Word of God, the Word of God is Jesus, the Son, therefore the Son is eternal. It’s a very basic concept and he skims over this.

[@diosdadoapias]

eternal- no beginning, no end. how could Jesus be eternal when he was begotten by God. He who was begotten has a beginning.

[@pklemets]

Nicely done, well said.

[@r.l.stolba9050]

Yes.

[@msparkison]

One area I have great difficulty in reconciling Oneness theology is, if Jesus on earth is speaking to the Father in Heaven (which is Him), He'd be talking to Himself. That doesn't make sense to me.

[@ws775]

It was the man praying to God

[@msparkison]

@@ws775 Thanks for your response. If I am understanding Oneness theology, the (Holy) Spirit of God is the Spirit of Jesus, correct? And the Father is also Jesus, correct? Jesus is God and the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are manifestations of Jesus, yes? From what I read of UPCI theology, this is what is believed. So, when Jesus the man was on earth praying to the Father in Heaven, how was He not praying to Himself? Whether it is Jesus on earth or Jesus in Heaven at the same moment, it’s still Jesus, the same Unipersonal God, right? So, how is it not Jesus (the man) talking to Himself (Jesus the Father)?

[@KevinDay]

Of all of the Trinitarian models I have heard, Thomas Aquinas's seems very similar to how I have always thought of the Oneness view growing up... Only very recently did I even realize that it was considered wrong to talk about the Son being eternal 🤔

[@mousejackson2523]

@@msparkison Allow me to clarify. We are humans. In the same way we are humans so was the man Jesus. He needed oxygen, food, water. And in the same way we need to pray he needed to pray. His prayers were to himself in some sense, however it was to a different nature. Here's something that may help. The human nature of Jesus and the divine nature of Jesus had different wills. From a variety of verses we see that the human side of his nautre did not do his own will but the will of the Father. Meaning he wasn't just doing the will of a man but the will of God. When he prayed and asked questions he genuinely didn't know the answers, since as a man he was limited.

[@terryautry6493]

no. remember, God is three beings in One. He was not talking to Himself. He was talking to God the father. Jesus is God the son. they are separate but each one is God and all are in unity with one another. God is not some being that is just one being with three beings inside of Himself. He is split into three beings and each one of them is God

[@user-ww9ch1hm2r]

Jesus himself said he is a man telling the truth that comes from his father who is in heaven period.

[@titandmc8111]

Colossians 1:15 clearly says the Son is the first born of creation Jesus in heaven sits at his fathers right hand John 14:28 Jesus says my father greater John 20:17 Jesus calls his father his GOD When John 3:16 says GOD sent his son not himself

[@kiwihans100]

Theologians since the 2nd century have debated & theorised over Who Jesus really was! We dont need them! We have the Holy bible which tells us that Only the Father is from "Everlasting to Everlasting" ( Psm 90) The Son is exactly what he is! a SON. He is 'begotten' which is a word used hundreds of times in scripture, even in the NT! at Luke 7:12 Luke uses exactly the same Greek word 'MONO GENESIS ( 'Only begotten' as John 3:16. some bibles omit the 'begotten' & just put 'only' at Luke 7:12, which is incorrect!). So why is the Son described by Jesus himself & John as 'only begotten' unless his life came from his Father ( not created) but 'begotten'. Jesus testified that "I live BECUASE OFTHE FATHER" & "AS THE FATHER HAS LIFE IN HIMSELF HE GAVE ALSO TO THE SON TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF" ( John 5:26) Thus to be biblically accurate and pre Roman/ Greek influence, Jesus was begotten by the Father, in heavan before "all creation" which The Father created "Through the Son, including the angels.

[@robveggett6782]

FIRSTBORN, right, so Jesus was first of all creation, the Son of God Himself. Col 1: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

[@anthonybardsley4985]

Today I have begotten thee.

[@aljay2955]

Jesus did have a beginning and was begotten when he was conceived by Mary. As God he had no beginning. He is not the eternal Son of God but he is the eternal God a member of the Godhead which is the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost described this way so human beings can understand that God is three persons making one God. To each their own but thats what I understand from the Bible.

[@shawnembrey1118]

Convenient you say the mystery can't be understood yet Jesus says for those of us that have been given the gifting and anointing of Truth the mystery has been revealed to us but to others it is a mystery. Jesus is the Son of God lesser to the Father and God our Father has given Him all Power and Authority in Heaven and Earth and He who will Judge us is Jesus the Son of God. Manifest in your constant misuse of scripture means to reveal Jesus the Son of God revealed the Father who is Spirit in His Son. They are Two and are now of the Same Spirit they had from before creation. The Son of God Jesus is the spoken word of the Father. Your confusion is trying to merge the definitions of words to fit your misunderstanding. You said it yourself the True Believer believes Jesus is the Son of the almighty God and ancient of days not that he is the Almighty. Jesus tells us clearly that the True Believer will have them the Father and the Son in them through an authentic redeemed salvation baptized and made new of the water and Spirit. Not all are gifted to teach the Truth and it shows by many who teach error claiming it to be Truth. NOWHERE does Jesus or the true church fathers the Apostles of Jesus teach you must believe Jesus is the Almighty God and if you don't believe this you will burn in hell. This is the false doctrine of fear used by the majority in the professing church and those who teach these errors will have to answer to Jesus for it. These false teachings have divided and caused so much strife within the professing lukewarm church and hundreds of millions of people have been led to believe error as Truth just like this teaching here. Who was Jesus speaking of when He tells us clearly He and His Father our Only True God they will come and make their abode in us the True children of God making is one with them as they are one you need to read as the Spirit leads you and not confuse the false vain philosophies from the minds of men that have polluted the Truth of God chasing the customs and traditions of man and NOT the leading of the Holy Spirit. I pray anyone decieved their understanding be opened to Truth as Jesus gives it the Son of God by His name we have power and authority to tread on serpants those who teach falsely claiming Truth having a form of godliness but lack His power with cunning speeches tickling the ears of those who want to believe them instead of the Holy Spirit. Come and know Truth and secure your place in the Kingdom as the true remnant bride of Jesus and not this lukewarm false church the majority finds themselves in.

[@greeneyedlizardking]

Father Jesus is allmighty God ! I believe ! Acts 2:38 reborn Holy adopted and sealed in the only Jesus name baptism acts 2:38 = saved. Without the Spirit of Father Jesus allmighty by acts 2:38 your none of His ! Led by the Spirit of Jesus by acts 2:38 your not under law but Grace ! Anything with 3 heads/ 3 persons/ 3 gods / 3 angels = is dragon . All trinity is false . Only trinity in bible is 3 frogs . 1 Lord God Jesus our Father 1 Faith 1 baptism acts 2:38 ! Woooo obey acts 2:38 & find out !

[@robveggett6782]

1) Scripture teaches that the Son is the only begotten of the Father: John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. If I say that God has a decree/plan/purpose (Eph. 1:3-14), since God is eternal, He didn't make up His plan 5 days or 50 years into the creation.

[@jpants5144]

so Christ was Jahova in a human body?

[@AstariahJW]

No that's another lie from Christendoom

[@vdodd23]

​@@AstariahJW explain why?

[@levitatv8306]

What is the proper reading of John 1:18? Begotten God or Begotten Son?

[@SamC_182]

They're both correct, but I believe the literal translation is begotten God

[@theodoreritola7641]

who died on the Cross God the father or God the son? When the disciple woke up who was in the ship laying on the pillow sleeping Was that God the Father ?The bible says God never sleeps or slumbers .Did they say God the father please go back to sleep .?

[@Wheelcooldiecast-u8n]

In his human ness? The Apostles preached in the Book of Acts very clearly that Jesus was a man.Ever noticed there is never any reference to that book at all or very little? They can quote you Acts 2:38 but not 2:22 and not Acts 10:38 look for yourself.Peter the man with the keys never one time said Jesus was God not once.

[@maryhelencampos9964]

IJohn 5:20/ Christ Jesus the One And Only Begotten Son Of GOD can give Eternal Life apparently He’s Eternal too. ABBA Father knows the end from the beginning so it’s possible it was Jesus Yeshua in the fiery furnace with the 3 Hebrew Boys.....I went to a Oneness UPCI church for 6years all the revivals all the prayer meetings all the week days Services and Sunday Services and never once heard any High Praises to my Heavenly Holy Father ( always said GOD but never a personal Father...That’s why UPCI was recognized as Jesus Only. There’s Only One Mediator between Man and GOD(Father’s Throne Room/Courts Of Heaven) the man Christ Jesus(GOD in flesh) (Perfect HighPriest)Just dialoguing

[@seanchaney3086]

Christ consistently refers to Himself as The Son of His Father. The Son is in the Bosom of His Father (John 1:18) There was no change in Christ's Identity. He is eternally Begotten of The Father. Modalism produces a Pantheistic deity. The Holt Trinity is both in Union and Distinct.

[@mt9567]

Have you been baptized in the name of Jesus (the Christ) like everyone else in the book of Acts?..... If not.... why not?

[@ttmatt_8250]

There is only one God who is SPIRIT and that eternal Spirit was INSIDE the a man who was the Christ who is the lamb OF GOD. The son/body/human is NOT God because then that means that the Christ is God WITHOUT God being INSIDE OF HIM. “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom YOU HAVE SENT.” (John 17:3). “Behold! MY SERVANT whom I uphold, My Elect one in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.” (Isaiah 42:1) “You are My witnesses,” says the LORD, “And MY SERVANT whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I AM HE. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the LORD, And BESIDES ME there is NO SAVIOR.” (Isaiah 43:10-11)

[@djalmajunior8818]

unicism does not know how to explain the term unigenito they distort the term giving another meaning to deny the existence of the divine son, Jesus is God generated, not God the Father, this is defended for more than 2 thousand years of Christianity