Dawn Gate - The Game that Solved Toxicity - 1

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[@plastictouch6796]

Imagine if you couldn't climb rank on league if you were toxic.

[@oompaloompagrande]

League content creators would be in shambles

[@Colm1800]

bro the only reason my friend is diamond in league is because he abused his teammates into winning XD

[@thetuerk]

Imagine if people had to collect honours after a game to climb, toxicity would be OVER

[@PJOZeus]

considering if your honour is garbage you get put with afkers, kind of do@@thetuerk

[@thetuerk]

@@PJOZeus I don't care since i got lvl 5 every season, and if you don't afk you shouldn't either.

[@AzzRushman]

I remember when they added the honor system in League. Users were nice during a magical week or two.

[@disappointedfather5114]

Yeah I got honor level 4 then, came back, now you can't honor your opponents anymore, that nice vibe is dead, and getting honor is a slow, painful grind now despite getting votes every game. Why'd they take it out?

[@BleachFan2588]

​@@disappointedfather5114Players up voted the player who fed/griefed on the other team, that's why.

[@disappointedfather5114]

@@BleachFan2588 aaaah. Makes sense. Shame.

[@BooleanDev]

@@BleachFan2588thats hilarious

[@bearwynn]

​@@BleachFan2588how silly is it that you could vote for the enemy team

[@austincrook5304]

League’s honor system: “Best I can do is 1/3 of a key every month”

[@linweihang8477]

The loot system is a complete trash

[@linweihang8477]

There are thousands of skins and wards. Like there isnt even a gurentee that you get a skin shard. If you want to get a skin from a shard you eithrr have to disenchnat other skin shards or re roll into a shittier or better skin. And most of thr time is shittier since more than half of what league offers are absolute garbage. Then theres the gemstone thing. Pointless. Ive played the game for over 7 years now and got a total of 55 gemstones, not even enough to exchange the most basic mythic skin. 30 of them i got from last year only.

[@nerdock4747]

*every other month

[@noobgam6331]

Because it should never affect ranked gameplay. What else do you want? You "eventually" get free skins for that grind

[@thatoneneeko2131]

@@linweihang8477 well you see what i do is that i base my character choices ingame based from my skins and honestly that's wayy more enjoyable

[@Cazzzz321]

Crazy that games like this were around so many years ago, had experiments like this that WORKED, and other major devs just completely overlook systems like this.

[@EEEEEEEE]

E‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎

[@ChairPacer]

Toxicity improves engagement / playtime.

[@Not_interestEd-]

"hmm this system has been proven to work, what if I just don't do that and instead let bots exist?"

[@cr1tikal_arc]

i don't like it nor think it should be in any videogames. i would much rather be myself rather than be coerced into being nice just to make more progress. i have no issue with toxicity and actually find overly nice people to be even more annoying and condescending.

[@Cazzzz321]

@@cr1tikal_arc and you are a minority in all of that attitude. You enjoy that bud.

[@timtamthemememan5094]

That sounds much better than the shadow moderation that i see a lot of games opting for.

[@johnnycaralta]

They shouldn't have any moderation if it's M rated. Kids games obviously should, but that's it.

[@mandothepando9637]

​@@johnnycaralta Yeah no, thats how you get sued because people are posting illegal content without you doing jack shit about it.

[@johnnycaralta]

@@mandothepando9637 Illegal content meaning what? Mean words? I'd rather they do nothing at all than punish undeserving people.

[@mandothepando9637]

@@johnnycaralta I mean, instances from when I modded a game? Doxxing and death/SA/terror threats (sometimes in conjunction with the dox). Hell, we had a mod ban a player for cheating, only to receive a picture of his wife taken through his kitchen window with the players gamer tag signed on it.

[@greenwalnut774]

@@johnnycaralta What if you're old and only have time for a game or 2 a day.

[@suursuits7637]

Deep Rock Galactic (mostly) solved it by having cheering and camaraderie as built-in mechanics (saluting, beers cost the same per round regardless of team size, encouraging hanging out post-match), and having the dwarves (player characters) antagonize the company they work for rather than eachother.

[@squarewheel1860]

Deep rock is like 90% hackers now that flame or kick if you're not also hacking so...

[@warriorfire8103]

Rock and Stone!

[@SeisoYabai]

Rock and stone!! Yeah the DRG community is awesome because the devs are quite sharp and designed their game to be noob friendly and mitigate player conflict by making classes a little flatter with more overlap (i.e. it's not like TF2 where rheres one dedicated Medic, every dwarf can cover every role just with different efficacy). Helps hide skill differences which gives people less reason to bitch. There's sure a fair number of toxic people still, but it's way lower than most other games. I just wish their takes on the game itself were as absolutely based, but they still made something amazing and I'll always respect it even if the game isn't going in a direction I like

[@davidcox1472]

​@@squarewheel1860as someone that very recently got into DRG I can't disagree with this more I have seen maybe one or two bots or hackers in the entire 7 months I've been playing.

[@SolarFlareAmerica]

​@@squarewheel1860me, when I lie 😂 Like bro who bothers hacking the game? Just mod it.

[@boop7441]

this system is so genius because even if it "doesnt work" it still works. Like even if you fail to incentivize your players to play nice, the nice players still get to max level, then they get to play ranked, with all the other nice players. I think that's cool.

[@Inlevity]

Didn't even think about it like that; even if it doesn't work out as well as planned, the higher you go the more likely you'll meet good people.

[@apokatastasian2831]

It's also genius because you can train the kids to accept a social credit system.... then later in life you can redefine "toxic" to mean whatever threatens the corporations and political elite....then set them up to inform on each other to disincentivize disobedeince to the elite. it's brilliant

[@Kai-K]

​@@apokatastasian2831 bro its a video game trying to reduce the prevalence of people calling each other slurs and griefing so that more people have more fun You could make this argument about literally any reward system that incentivizes any behavior at all. Initiative to support kids going to the dentist so their teeth don't rot? Your mom telling to go outside to get some fresh air and sunshine? Getting money for going to work and providing a valuable service?

[@apokatastasian2831]

@@Kai-K that is true, your mom raising you right, a free person choosing a career, and mechanized technological systems with behavioral modification goals set by opaque teams of engineers, testing their ideas and gaining privatized psychological data profiles of minors......are completely the same. certainly the military and surveillance agencies have never ever used video games explicitly for social engineering or intelligence gathering before....so my comment is completely out of line. I apologize for suggesting it , continue your day citizen

[@apokatastasian2831]

@@Kai-K Did you remember Niantic? the company that launched Pokemon go? their main product is mapmaking for the military. they made one game... they launched a game, which got children, to go to locations they pinned, to take inapp phone pictures of interior spaces google street cars cant get to..... which then became the property of niantic. they traded us digital dinosaurs for this service. was that: a.) a fun and lighthearted game bro like seriously touch grass b.) a way for a for-profit corporation, to get an army of unpaid workers to create maps of private residences in a grey area of violating the 4th amendment without technically violating it and then selling those maps for billions of dollars more than they made from the game. if you say the one that doesn't involve making billions of dollars...better check your assumptions. time to wake up sleepyheads, the machines are never your friends and they don't care if people call you names. *you are the product*

[@Nuvizzle]

Dawngate was easily the best MOBA I've ever played and had one of the most genuinely nice communities I've ever had the honor to be a part of. RIP.

[@hosav]

Yeah man, I had totally suppressed that game from my memory. I miss it so much. :(

[@dafool]

My friends and I still miss Renzo. Best character

[@RoastedPheasant]

Being on EA Origin killed Dawngate. It's really tragic.

[@mis8866]

@@RoastedPheasant no the game was dogshit, thats why it was canned. lmao you guys are delusional, this game was a shit fest it literally had ZERO balancing the map was fucking awful unless you were an idiot who knew nothing about how mobas worked. ONE SIDE LITERALLY HAD A 38% HIGHER CHANCE OF WINNING SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE MAP LAYOUT. you guys are actually insane to think this was a good game. If it was SO good it would have released, but it didnt, cause it was dogshit.

[@clad95150]

No MOBA were as good a dawngate. It made me stop playing moba because no other moba could keep up. (And I tried lots of them)

[@koboldconclave7141]

I legit froze in place hearing Dawngate mentioned I miss that game so much and it's cool to be reminded of how mindful it was

[@johnnycaralta]

How gay it was*

[@Halfcertified]

@@johnnycaraltanot an insult

[@johnnycaralta]

@@Halfcertified But it kinda is.

[@Halfcertified]

@@johnnycaralta how so?

[@johnnycaralta]

@@Halfcertified Usually when something is bad, it's an insult.

[@Niggelsworth]

Oh my god I miss Dawn Gate so much. The weird tetris runes were so cool.

[@dylanalpers]

All I had to hear was "weird Tetris runes" and now I'm invested

[@Izunundara]

You had an empty grid that you could slot shaped pieces into, and every one you fit in gave different perks, so you could choose between maximising your sheer statistical bonuses or just slam a couple big funny pieces in and let god sort em out

[@puzzlejinx]

Hell yeah brother, fuck EA for killing it in beta

[@amythistxue1]

@@dylanalpers it was something of a cross between Leagues old Rune system and new one, you start with an empty grind that you can slot pieces small ones may give a small stat bonus like runes did, bigger/oddly shaped ones may give something closer to the current keystone abilities, but then these pieces would also have sockets you could slot gems into which were just straight stat bonuses like leagues old runes were so it became an actual decision point, do I want this cool ability/effect at the cost of free stats, or do I want to maximize my stats but lose out on bonus effects

[@joshholmes1372]

​@@puzzlejinxthis

[@Im_Tessa]

The one thing this does punish on the other hand, is playing with your friends

[@rFey]

It probably kinda balanced out since most of the time you're probably at an advantage if you're a full team of friends vs randoms. Not sure tho, have never heard of this game in my life.

[@Snipergoat1]

"It couldn't be cheated" famous last words that.

[@upbulb1538]

It's also bullshit. At least on the leaderboards shit got real toxic real quick. If you tried going off meta people would flame the shit outta you real quick. Were there nice people and nice streamers? Sure, but there were also a lot of folks who were hyper-competitive and ready to rage.

[@Cryptic0013]

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. A small number of people are jerks because it's who they are--a far greater number have their worst side come out when they play online, anonymously, in a sweaty, competitive environment with randos. It incentivises the worst, rather than the best behaviour. But when you turn "sportsmanship" and "politeness" into in-game stats that get you better rewards, and "rudeness" into a massive debuff, it flips that script by appealing to the gamer mind and turning that "caught up in the competition" switch toward being nice instead of naughty.

[@drewwhited2088]

well said.

[@rheokalyke367]

It's important to note that "rudeness" isn't even a debuff here. The fact is, if one were to allow to punish other players for being "rude", that would lead to griefing and backhanded toxicity. They were genius by only allowing positive reinforcement, not negative reinforcement.

[@darcksage1]

I miss dawn gate so fucking much, my roommates and I played it nonstop during the open beta.

[@Ithraine]

Same, I really hope someone picks it up

[@eosakizo]

Some people were working on bringing it back...but that was years ago :(

[@Cameronskillz]

It was a fantastic game and I hated seeing it shutdown

[@starsn7974]

I’m confused so this system sounds good and all until you realize that it punishes you for having friends that want to play with you

[@Ithraine]

@starsn7974 ??? You aren't being punished because they are rewards for making someone happy, not something you are owed for playing Lol. You also aren't guaranteed to get ANY up-votes, so to think like that is inherently wrong.

[@TH-dg2mm]

Dawngate was genuinely the next gen of MOBAs. I remember seamlessly loading into the game from pre-game lobby with NO loading screen. Imagine champ select ends and you're just... in game. The best.

[@Oxidjynn]

Dawngate was so cool and such a fresh take on the system. I miss it so much and really wish that Shrine of Imanna/Dreambound were still being worked on like they used to be to bring the game back.

[@reinhartdrial8060]

Omg i miss dawngate, this game was amazing.

[@StrayFire]

By far the best MOBA ever created.

[@BlueSapphyre]

@@jrbaconcheezsaturated market. Couldn’t draw in people from league and dota and every other moba coming out at the time.

[@stevencaskey9440]

​@@BlueSapphyre it wasnt even really that though. League and Dota was at their Peaks, Their Primes at the time. Esports was just getting started and EA flat refused to Advertise the game or really even give it proper Funding. So, The only way for you even stumble across Dawn Gate was by chance. Due to this EA Canceled the entire project all because it couldnt beat League/Dota at their Prime instantly while purposely being underminded by the company that owned the Developer.. When it was canceled. EA Closed the entire Studio making it, so, everyone at said studio got together, started their own studio and started a Petition to BUY the rights to Dawngate. EA and them came to an agreement of 1million (I assume cause EA thought it was impossible for them to get) when they got the 1million, EA Refused to Sell them the Rights to the game. Now said studio is currently remaking Dawn Gate from scratch under a new named called Shrine of Imana or something. Here is the timeline of it all www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fn383ztov9am61.png ITs been radio silent for years sadly, so, i assume they quietly Stopped the project.

[@crimsonpotemkin]

That's a smart idea. They should try implementing that in league. FF14 has the best community I've ever seen. It has little to no rewards for being nice, but the culture and atmosphere they created in that game makes people behave. I doubt it can be easily replicated, so this method of giving extra rewards for commendations at the end of games/runs/etc would be a nice start.

[@Youwish187]

Yeah FF generally has an amazing community compared to any other mmo, but you wanna stay away from social circles as in people who mainly play to hang out and talk or are hyper active in chats. My first toxic experiences were from people like that, some of those people exist in the novice network bc ig it feeds their ego for new players to tell them they’re good at the game, I’m still not max level tho so there may be more areas that are toxic but generally I’ve had like 95% good experiences with social interaction in FFXIV if not higher then 95%

[@huuuuuumpy]

It does have that kind of system. You level up an honor system in order to receive your ranked rewards at the end of the season like free skins etc. You get chat banned or any vacations and you have to regrind those honor levels.

[@fortris]

FF14 community is just as toxic as any other MMO you just don’t see it in game because their TOS is so strict that if someone reports you you’re likely to get suspended, and 3 suspensions is a permanent ban. So I guess if you’re fine with never interacting with people out of game it can seem pretty nice on the surface.

[@Valkhyron]

@@fortris In other words, the toxic players get the boot, and the game is therefore, by necessity, less toxic.

[@alextchap99]

there are whats called honor rewards in league of legends where players honor others if theyve been a good teammate. but the majority of players are already max level, so theres not that strong incentive

[@Illyclone]

Absolutely loved this game. Love that you're talking about it

[@Shadicals]

Hell Let Loose has the same mechanic, each commendation you receive multiplies your already gained XP by ~1.75x per commendation.

[@patrickclark8457]

I loved dawngate when it was out and really bummed that the game itself was shutdown

[@kevinsundelin8639]

Aw, I didn't know it was shutdown

[@teleclast]

Dawngate was one of my absolute favorites, and I never even noticed this, just loved the community so I also wanted to be nice

[@AkaRystik]

I miss Dawngate, it did so many things so well and it never even had a chance to live. Genuinely amazing devs, brilliant ideas, real innovation, amazing community that was fun to be a part of. Never forgave EA for pulling the plug on them. Also I miss seeing Dibs on the streams he so handsome.

[@BeauxJackson]

If that was on COD back in the day, no one would’ve prestiged😂

[@riolu666]

I spent a lot of money on that game-- there was a character that rode on a gun that turned into a bike, she screamed obscenities and her ulti was a anchor that dragged from her airship

[@saleam1]

Then you get to max level and proceed to dish out all the toxicity you’ve built up haha

[@katiequeen7225]

As stated, you got rewards for gaining xp after max level, and those rewards were good. Therefore you were still far better off being nice

[@Viper3220]

New achievement unlocked: Hazing

[@AimbotFreak]

​@@katiequeen7225Which doesn't matter. Losers getting rewards.

[@winsocks7]

DawnGate ruled I wish it still was around. the characters and meta and companion comic were so cool

[@caniscerulean]

Reminds me of old halo matchmaking. I forget whether it was 1 or 2, but you could like/ dislike the players in your lobby, like meant you were more likely to match with them in the future, dislike meant less likely. Toxic players (theoretically) had longer queue times if no one wanted to play with them

[@ghastlyghosties]

Dawn gate was such a fun game that was taken away too early hopefully the dreambound project doesn't fail

[@gmooney77]

This was one of the few concepts in Hell let Loose that I loved. Leveling up different classes takes AGES, but if your squad constantly commends you I think it's 10% more XP for each vote (technically all 30ish players on your team could give you the vote), then you level up at an incredibly fast pace.

[@an_f-14_tomcat]

It caps at 5 now. Because theres a fucking limit on how many people can like what you did I suppose :/

[@StrayFire]

still hell of a grind!

[@bananacrabman6646]

Man dawn gate was so good I miss that game, solved so many gripes I have with MOBAS.

[@codyzipper]

Dude dawngate is such a throwback Remember playing it back in the day, there was this squirrel boomerang lady she was fun as hell Really really sad it never took off...

[@ChipperTheChipster]

I literally talked about this with a group of about 20 people. I said the reason toxicity is still prevalent ib league is due to two things in equal share. 1] Rewards for being positive to randoms or friends is not really visual or rewarding enough 2] Punishment doesnt fit the crime. You brought out my point here, as i have said to them as well, i think league needs to punish toxicity with TIME. Time is one thing no one wants to waste without good reason. Give toxic members different steps, but do not remove their account. Even better, keep the number of #reports public to some degree. Before you think someone will consider it a badge of some sort, remember the punishments need to be better. I dont wanna type a whole full length explanation, here, in a comment and thru my phone lol So i will stop here, and thank you for having the swme vibe as me when thinking on 'toxic communities'

[@wassup4532]

I kinda disagree. People dont care about rewards in league if that means suffering through a 40 minute game. Also league has punished people with time and never worked you used to have 20 minute queues. In my experience what makes league a toxic game is the ELO system. A system designed to make your winrate 50% no matter how much time you spend improving yourself. And how does it do it? By pairing you with people with worse and worse ELO (tilted players on a lose streak, trolls...) until you lose. It basically punishes you for winning. If they want to improve toxicity make the matchmaking random and only based on rank. Dont use hidden numbers that are modified by winstreaks and losestreaks.

[@TheEstafista]

​@@wassup4532 One of the biggest league problems are cheep accounts. Doesn't matter if you get perm banned on one acc if you can get another for 5$. Also a HUGE problem is that players treating Report system as a big brother. Someone had a bad game? Report for feeding! Someone on enemy team BS you? Report for harrasment! You couldn't land a hook on enemy janna? Report for scripting! You top decided to split and didin't backed to help def? Report for trolling! People treat report system as a councler to complain to. And after so many false reports there are some real ones that slip by.

[@Drazard]

I had my account of 10+ years permabanned after I had some terrible life stuff happen and took it out in game. the next few months after that I trolled for months on possibly 30 to 40 accounts. it all became meaningless after that.

[@Brianlikescars]

I saw the words Dawngate and instantly liked. WHERE’S FENMORE?!

[@shrgnatlas]

DIBS!

[@drchickensalad]

MASKS!

[@VestinVestin]

"Akkaid... Your name was Akkaid 🤨..."

[@tiedyedbeard3439]

My friend and I quote dawngate to this day. Dota and LoL wished they had 1/10 the character that dawngate had

[@Brianlikescars]

@@tiedyedbeard3439 reminder that Mina was one of the single most interesting playstyles ever to exist. Which is why of course LoL ripped it off shortly after DG shut down.

[@amfrog8277]

I miss this game, man. It was genuinely my favorite MOBA at the time. It was a dark day when my friends and I had to go back to LoL

[@Slyslug]

Yoooo dawn gate! What an underrated game for real. Me and my buddy had a BLAST. Miss it

[@curtishonts7802]

Man I loved Dawngate, I enjoyed their item system, that and Infinity Crisis I was really into when it came to Mobas

[@Blue_Stargazer]

IC and Dawngate are two games that no longer exist that is so heartbreaking. Played so much of them both and my friends that I played with reminisce often on them.

[@curtishonts7802]

Yeah I played a mean Varion, and really enjoyed running a tanky bruiser support robin for Batman's Assassin@@Blue_Stargazer

[@Blue_Stargazer]

@@curtishonts7802 Oh I cannot choose which char from either. I loved to play them all. Cat prime was my fav and probably most played on IC.. and Mina in DG.

[@tiedyedbeard3439]

Omg the item system! Ability power simply improves Ability damages. No thinking about if this Ability scaled better with ad or ap or nothing. Everything was like a decade ahead of its time with that game.

[@curtishonts7802]

@@tiedyedbeard3439 plus they followed the vitality of the character, so if you played Fengore, you were likely to build stuff out of Hunger, so Consumption, and Desire Voluc was Consumption so you understood what stats were important to him, and how Assimilation/Voracity were probably good things to get

[@shanematthews1985]

Damn, being reminded of dawngate like this, that hurts :(

[@kojikashiin319]

I’ve seen like ten of your clips now but this is how I know I’ve got to subscribe

[@ChanceBunn]

I just wanna say, I played Dawn Gate for awhile and I did truly enjoy my time. It is 100% a contender for my favorite MOBA.

[@antigrav6004]

Imagine being an a-hole so powerful you were just able to grind that hard

[@johnnycaralta]

"Toxic" doesn't mean asshole. It's just a buzzword used to describe jokes, shit talking, celebrations, critiquing, and pretty much anything besides complimenting everybody for everything.

[@Negniwret]

@@johnnycaralta Yeah, toxic doesn't mean anything anymore. The word was misused for way too long But in the context of gaming, plenty of people are assholes. Blaming their team, getting angry and screaming at people, never accepting responsibility for their own failures

[@johnnycaralta]

@@Negniwret Those people are awesome. They open the flood gates for MW2 era game chat.

[@VestinVestin]

​@@johnnycaralta Here we were, deeply convinced "not everything adversarial is mean" would be followed up by "I only support what's adversarial as long as it's not mean", but no... You specifically doubled down on supporting what explicitly and unequivocally is mean-spirited behavior.

[@johnnycaralta]

@@VestinVestin What are you whining about...?

[@TH3L33TB34T]

"this solved toxicity!" Dawn Gate was the first game I was called a slur lmao they didn't solve anything, people would hostage you constantly because they all knew how this worked and you had to do whatever they said or you wouldn't get any progress

[@Thienthan]

So you get to work as a team? Imagine that.

[@StrayFire]

If you realy believe that Dawn Gate did not have a much nicer community than all the other MOBAs, then you must be part of the toxic people who even bring this shitty behavior into online gaming.

[@YoYakuman]

Yeah, people who thing Dawngate was all nice and friendly are delusional. Or they just didn't play very much or at a high MMR. What were the karma rewards? Curious he doesn't mention them since he probably knows how pointless they were. Just that they are "really good," you could get the materials to buy shapers... Dota gives you all the characters for free. The Karma system is merely the difference between a weak Exalted roll, or the Divine roll

[@gildias2556]

​@@StrayFirewhat a narrow-minded view lol

[@Dracomancili]

I had friends mention that you could just get into game with eachother and then unfriend eachother if the game allowed to get around this. I put forward that the solution to that is if the game kept track of people you had been friends with for x amount of time even after unfriending them.

[@ThunderPaladin]

I used to play Dawn Gate. I miss it. Most fun jungling ever.

[@Levyathyn]

I miss this game almost every day that I wake up. Sometimes I wonder how different my life would be if it hadn't been strangled in childbirth.

[@jakejutras5420]

Oh god I miss this game, such a shame what happened to it. Never really got the chance to thrive that it deserved.

[@killerkane714]

Usually what happens when you force somebody to be nice for rewards.

[@xxiace03]

I miss Dawngate so much. Had nothing but fun on that game

[@CarebearApplesauce]

Dawng😮ate was such a cool game with a great set of short stories tied to the characters. I had forgotten what it was called until now lol

[@tartas1995]

Dawn gate was an amazing game

[@Gendor64]

I love being not toxic. It makes games so much more enjoyable for literally everyone. And having systems to show teammates "i saw that you tried and that alone deserves my respect" is just a cherry on top at that point. Siege added a reputation system, and while i doubt it'll change things too much, it's still nice to know that i can give credit where credit is due.

[@TheOnlyOneDed]

The internet is such a puddle of water, wouldn't you say fella?

[@Gendor64]

@@TheOnlyOneDed If it isn't the worlds number 1 banshee main. Or i suppose now dante main. It really is a small puddle.

[@Just1n2802]

The only problem then is one that exists in siege rn where queuing with friends means you can't get commendations and you're being punished for queueing

[@souswodaem1]

Thor bringing up DawnGate...man I really enjoyed that game.

[@ErryneVox]

EA robbed us of this fantastic game

[@Nofxthepirate]

This is the kind of social engineering we need in games

[@josephreynolds2401]

and social media.

[@captainkiwiiiii]

and in real life. China Social Credit :^)@@josephreynolds2401

[@billedefoudre]

I develop several auto-moderation systems like that, in my days as a online game creator. One of those games was about diplomacy, were you had to make your gains validated by your opponents, via public and short negociations. Then,.a jury of 3 random player had to judge your négociation conformity : 1) did you fight for your own interest, first and foremost ? 2) Did you kept the négociation opened enough for your opponent to play and have fun too ? 3) did you built together something coherently written,.for your characters, faction, in-world, and the game interest ? Etc... If jury's votes are good,.you get validated. You could appeal to decision, which unfold another jury of 3 other random player,.judging the first jury members. Corruption points could be distributed to the first jury members this way, which would make them lower priority for next random jury duty of all kinds. It moderated itself, to keep people roleplaying in an open, competitive, respectful and comprehensive way. While still allowing all sorts of mischief, treachery, corruption attempts or dilemmas. People loved it. Never needed any modération, as morons, selfish people, toxic trolls, power gamers or weasel smartass were automatically outcasted from the system and not progressing at all in the game. And I'm sure there's literally dozens of other systems like that we could craft rather easily, to just make toxicity super contre-productive and progress killer.

[@hazukichanx408]

This is awesome, hilarious and ingenious all at once. My hat is off to you, Dawn Gate devs!

[@sedativeman]

Final Fantasy 11 had a similar solution with the community. You had to have a party with you to do almost everything, even for the job quests that only YOU would get rewards from. It made everyone super kind to each other because they'd have to ask you for help eventually. Plus you spend so long in parties, you make friends with people naturally. 11 had the kindest community of any MMO or game that I've ever seen.

[@CheshireSwift]

Fuck, didn't expect to run into Dawngate mentions. Loved that game so much.

[@YT_Toxic-Mothman]

Sware if given enough time this dude could solve anything honestly love hearing his story's and stuff such a cool dude

[@jackpointon5942]

I miss dawngate so much, i loved that game. Moya for life

[@JoshuaKayle]

“TEN THOUSAND YEARS.”

[@tahsinulhuq9447]

Imprisoned for

[@silviosouzadeoliveira3910]

He sounds like a disney villain casting a curse lol.

[@oliverboii7034]

I'd advoxate that drg has a good community too

[@joshuachambless3424]

ROCK AND STONE

[@carllangner48]

rock and stone

[@nevergon...9273]

Rock and stone

[@spicynachozz]

ROCK N STONE TO THE BONE!!

[@threeprongedfork7061]

ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE

[@NightRitual]

Dawngate was really good, great mechanics, movement was smooth and responsive, and fun character design.

[@vivigarr]

I miss Dawngate so much! It was such a fun game.

[@Siphonife]

Bro I liked DawnGate. I went looking back for it and saw it was offline x.x

[@PirateSoftware]

Miss it, honestly.

[@CorruptionAura]

I think it was ea killing it because it wasn't instantly as popular as lol or dota even though I think it has much better bones than the other two

[@krelekari]

Amazing way around it, stops malding people from taking their rage out on their teammates which happens all too often

[@TheDsRequiem]

Until someone doesn't play exactly how someone else wants them to

[@icebox1954]

Amazing how easily abusable the system is. I'd merely threaten people to give me stuff or do as I command or purposefully withhold an approvement. Easy as can be.

[@xheralt]

As they say at Ad Astra Games -- the key to successful game design is encouraging desired player behavior.

[@M4GG0TK1NG]

Some games do stuff similar to that now and it doesn't make them less toxic. It just becomes the default that everyone votes for everyone else. It's the epitome of "when everyone is special, no one is"

[@marcusbrown3880]

So what happened was, all my friends unfriended me, then we all searched for each other in matchmaking, and voila!! We beat the system and the nerds was all so confused

[@manos7958]

Thanks for being the one voice of reason in a sea of lemmings.

[@StrayFire]

Didnt work back then. The system keeps track of who you were once friends with.

[@manos7958]

@@StrayFire So the system itself was toxic, guess that is another reason it didn't even manage to pass beta phase.

[@ventu7907]

Imagine being punished for playing with your friends

[@junkie2100]

i like the idea, ive seen a similar concept implemented in the beta version of the game foxhole, havent played the full version but in the beta you could give people commendations for good work which would eventually rank you up, and it wasnt all about fighting either, you also had to manage your logistics, have people gathering supplies, loading them up, driving them to the front lines, took a lot of working together

[@anidiot9831]

Still a thing! Pretty sure it's the only way to rank up, and you have to participate in the game to be able to give them out

[@kazukixe]

this is such an amazing concept and idea, this could be implemented into so many games

[@Magnapinna4096]

i can already hear the thunderstorm whispering " NOW! "

[@andreasnorberg8285]

"hey billy wanna play some games with me and the boys?" "No sorry guys i dont want to grind for 10000 years"

[@animationtime7265]

So that means that nice guys finish first. Interesting.

[@Awake0226]

Dawngate was SO GOOD! i miss it so much and think about it all the time.

[@Awake0226]

renzo main

[@Srjl]

Man, I miss dawn gate. It was a nice change of pace to the stale state that other mobas was in.

[@getonleagueguys7557]

So if you're in ranked and some guy is an asshole, he's probably pretty good.

[@bensmall2602]

Incentives man. They almost always work better than punishment

[@StAjoraGames]

Depends on the punishment I think. If the punishment for cheating was your PC being fried, not many would take that risk (assuming it was a good game). It's no longer a Steam account and/or a new copy of the game; it's not thousands of dollars at risk. I'm talking about confirmed cheating, multiple humans verifying through replays and admin tools like what Camomo does in his Rust content. Personally I'd like to see both. Fantastic and highly desirable rewards for not being an asshole and wrath of god punishments for cheaters.

[@StarryxNight5]

​@@StAjoraGamesIf the punishment for being mean was having your PC fried, you just wouldn't play the game. Never know when some trigger happy mod or some toxic lobby vote kills your system

[@StAjoraGames]

@@StarryxNight5 Tell me you didn't read it without telling me you didn't read it. "If the punishment for cheating.......multiple humans verifying through replays and admin tools"

[@Grumblik]

I remember Dawn Gate. I miss it.

[@Rurukuken]

Every time he talks about Dawn Gate I get sad. Loved that game

[@anthonyorosco1850]

Imagine leveling 8x slower than other people because you like playing with friends

[@singami465]

So you're telling me people who were playing in parties had to grind 32 more? Sounds like an amazing system for a game that's definitely alive right now.

[@Devilinabag]

This is what I thought. I've never heard of the game and this video already produces a few thoughts on why it was shuttered.

[@sovietmoose5624]

No, the people playing alone and being good sports could grind 32 times less, the bar was the one match worth of experience. You arent being punished for playing with friends unless they tailored the rank system around getting that 32x bonus.

[@MrKyle700]

I MISS DAWNGATE SO MUCH IT WAS SO GOOD

[@StefanLopuszanski]

Having played in Dawn Gate and having studied the genre (including being cited on the Wikipedia page) it worked somewhat but fell apart at higher ranks. Been forever though since I've played it so I forget all the specifics.

[@davidetosi2391]

Or...hear me out on this. Maybe if you are forced in a team game with 4 braindead monkeys with an ego big as a house, at least have rewards for playing the game if your stats are good even if your teammates do everything in their power to drag you down. Toxicity is born from suffering for things out of your control, knowing that at the end of the game even if you have an afk in team or if one of your teammates just want to actively ruin the expetience for your team, even when the loss is ensured, you are mitigating the penalty by playing the game in the best way and if your stats shows that you did great even with an handicap you will be rewarded, maybe not like a win, but more like a mitigated loss.

[@benjaminfrost2780]

alternatively people got alt accounts or "unfriended" their friends to vote them. Unless the terminology is "can't vote people you are in a party with" then you solve only a part of the problem. Whale problem or if it was gonna be free to play like it probably was then you just have a problem in full. Also...game got cancelled and never released...so lets not say it solved something when it only had an untested theory.

[@StrayFire]

system kept track of your past friends. use your brain!

[@benjaminfrost2780]

@@StrayFire did they say that? Other games with systems that don't let friends up vote or honor you certainly don't "track your past friends"...so there is no reasonable reason to assume that this one that didn't even launch would.

[@StrayFire]

@@benjaminfrost2780 I know it did track it in some way because we tried cheating the system and it didnt work.

[@benjaminfrost2780]

@@StrayFire You tried it when? The game never launched.........care to try that again?

[@StrayFire]

@@benjaminfrost2780 I played this game for 9 months and even participated in tournaments. Are you completely dead in the head?

[@gtjio]

God I miss Dawngate every day. It really was the best MOBA out there but it got canceled for no reason

[@Xeiom]

I remember that system and it was super good. Genuinely crazy to me that no games replicate it. You also had to vote as part of increasing your own reward so if someone was so toxic that you wanted to reduce their reward it cut into your reward - So you would only not give others the reward if they were toxic enough to make you willing to have less reward just to punish them

[@kiaforchia4887]

can you descrbie deep rock galactic, its pretty non toxic, tis heavenly

[@PirateSoftware]

ROCK AND STONE

[@smackmmk]

And that's how you do it folks, Don't lecture your players through story, or NPCs telling them how to be a better person or anything like that. Unlike other forms of art and media, we can use mechanics in the game to influence behavior and thus shape the community. Very interesting social experiment.

[@NoThatRyan]

In what game are moralizing NPCs the mechanism for creating a healthy "community"?

[@smackmmk]

@@NoThatRyan game developers oftentimes use story, and quest lines with NPCs to get the player to agree with their particular politics or way of thinking. They think that if they tell these types of stories, players will learn a lesson, and act better or be better in the future. This can be seen in a lot of modern AAA games now a days.

[@kaelhound]

This reminded me of the fact that I have the OST saved somewhere on my MEGA cloud. I remember loving the game, really sad it died

[@swarmsovereign5158]

Dude, loved Dawngate so much. Moya was amazingly broken and fun

[@Zepha21]

forcing people to be nice is a very stupid idea, instead you have to create a climate that encourages friendliness. overwatch: someone makes a mistake, everyone loses => toxicity warframe: extra player = worst thing is they make no difference => people don't mind each other => not toxic

[@kendallewis1753]

Enlighten me. I wanna know more!

[@Arkayjiya]

"forcing people to be nice is a very stupid idea," Can't be that stupid if it's literally working. There's very little difference in practice between natural niceness and manufactured niceness (among individuals at least, manufactured niceness of companies for example is another story), either way it will encourage a friendly culture and the niceness will end up genuine in both cases.

[@Zepha21]

@@Arkayjiyano, it's not working

[@Arkayjiya]

@@Zepha21 You literally have an example where it worked here. Do you have another example? A scientific study maybe?

[@Zepha21]

@@Arkayjiya it only looks like it works, the underlying problems continue. just because you forced them to be quiet doesn't mean they're not angry or fighting.

[@diojoestar5178]

imagine riot games had human devs

[@Baphominx]

On FF14 what they did is (for a time) whenever someone was toxic, they were 100% banned with no chance of getting the account back at all, this happened for a little while and it was enough so that everyone got really really scared of being banned forever, no one ever knew if the tyranny was lifted or the bans just stopped because no one was toxic anymore out of fear. I don't even know that's truth but it was told to from older players when I asked why no one flamed me after I failed to clear a debuff leading to a TPK, and most interesting, no one even told me about the debuff and what I had to do until I asked them what I was doing it wrong.

[@keithkent366]

I hope season 3 is something the cast is just as excited to work on as we are for you guys to work on it, now that Sword AF and D20 are between seasons i have no idea what to do with myself lmao

[@Vindiorix]

Phony positivity to receive rewards.

[@paradox9551]

Exactly, that's the trouble with this kind of system. It rewards fake niceness and passive aggressiveness instead.

[@ekuude]

I'll take phony positivity rather than earnest negativity every time. It's not going to solve everything but it lets you reward players who play well and behave well too.

[@brianp6682]

You dont understand what toxicity is. If no one can keep it real and have negative comments, that is SUPER toxic in a fascist sort of way

[@ryancier]

Toxicity is usually an issue of putting expectations over communication. In games I've played in League, if we had a talkative shotcaller, we were usually good. It would be when people just expected everyone else to know what they were doing that things went south. Hate to sound a little boring, but it really comes down to cohesion and leadership.

[@vedarovski4110]

Dude, amazing 😮