DB Dive: How Strong is Future Gohan?

[@platplaiserin]

This is my favourite dragon ball channel currently ❤ fantastic video as usual!

[@KaimIICOD]

This theory only holds by completely ignoring two established and never denied things: that Bulma says Trunks has a similar level to Gohan when he died, and that Trunks himself says he could defeat them knowing that Gohan died trying. Trunks: "There's no need to go to the past and research them... I think with my current strength, I can probably defeat the androids... There's no need to go to the past and research them..." Bulma: "You've become so incredibly strong, but three years ago, wasn't Gohan killed? I can't imagine that Gohan back then and you now are that different..." Trunks: "Mom, I'm being very clear, this time I have confidence in myself!"

[@trunksa1783]

Exactly. It doesn't address Trunks' own confidence in his ability to win.

[@pooheadz189]

I gave multiple theories in the video, I don't know what theory you are referring to. Though I can likely assume you mean Gohan being stronger than Trunks, and while I won't say my theory is correct and there are no problems with it, I do believe there are problems with Trunks being stronger as well. I already spoke about Bulma and Trunk's interaction in the video.

[@xx445]

Wooooow, another video already?? Keeping up the good work, I see! Loving it

[@EndoScorpion]

I can't take future Gohan's words too seriously when he claims he's not as powerful as Goku. Gohan when facing Cell didn't think he had surpassed Goku, even after spending 4 years training with Goku and having Goku directly tell Gohan that Gohan was stronger. Gohan still didn't believe it. So a Gohan who had never trained with Goku, and had to learn how to go SSJ all by himself... it would take a LOT to convince him he had surpassed his father - who he looked up to and almost idolised. Anyway, if 17 was using less than 50% of his power... as you said in the video "around 40%". Gohan wouldn't train to match that 40%, he would've trained to BEAT that 40%. So Gohan probably trained to 17's 50% level at least. I'd personally say Gohan is around the same level as Vegeta and Piccolo were when 17 & 18 were first activated (and yes I'd put Piccolo on par with Vegeta at this point, if weaker then only slightly).

[@Uguguabbabaa]

Good point on gohan's humility.

[@Snow_632]

Good points but I gotta ask why do you think piccolo was equal to vegeta at that point? Vegeta was a ssj, and piccolo hadn't fused with nail

[@EndoScorpion]

@@Snow_632 Piccolo and Vegeta performed similarly against 19 and 20, and comments made by characters seem to put them around the same level. That and Piccolo had been training with Goku so would've likely got to or near his level, while Vegeta was said to be also around or "potentially" above Goku at that time. I don't think I specified I meant the Main timeline (the one we see played out with a future Trunks coming back in time). So I was comparing future Gohan (when he dies against 17) to the main timeline Vegeta and Piccolo during the arrival of the Androids. Apologies if I didn't make that clear originally. Though, I could put forward an argument for the future timeline; where Piccolo and Vegeta may still be on equal grounds (albeit I would say they'd be much weaker than their main timeline counterparts), and thus weaker than Gohan was when he died.

[@Etrodecim]

I do think saying Goku might be able to take on Mecha Frieza, King Cold, and Future Trunks is a bit too wild. When Trunks was sparring with Goku, Kakarot acknowledged that Trunks was holding back and knew he had no intention of hurting him, which is why Kakarot could block Trunks' sword with just a single finger, stating that Trunks wasn't giving it his all. They seem relatively close in strength, and if anything, Kakarot might be a little stronger. However, given that Kakarot commented on Trunks holding back, the gap is left somewhat ambiguous.

[@totalnewb123]

Why are you calling him Kakarot as of you’re Vegeta? Also good analysis.

[@Etrodecim]

@@totalnewb123 Well since everyone but Vegeta calls him "Goku" I might as well call him by his birthname too lol. and thanks bro.

[@thatguyknownaswill8180]

But how in the world would trunks get so strong training alone, with no gravity chamber?

[@totalnewb123]

@@Etrodecim that’s fair.

[@pooheadz189]

Hey Etrodecim, long time no see! Yardrat Goku might potentially not be far and above stronger than Trunks in that he could manhandle him along with Mecha Frieza and King Cold, but Trunks did get hope from Goku's strength, and that Goku was even better than the stories he heard about him. But if Future Trunks was the same strength as Future Gohan (as Bulma said) or weaker (as I believe he likely is) and he thinks that Goku can make a difference when Trunks can't himself, it makes me think he is a step or two ahead of Future Trunks. Even if Trunks was not giving it his all, Goku still impressed him with the use of just his finger, and it would make no sense for Trunks to be testing Goku's strength and then he attacks a near equal power level at such a low level that a finger equates to a sword. Goku would have to be using a similar amount of effort to Trunks, or less, for Trunks to have his reaction.

[@GhostHead997]

Recently discovered your channel and I love it keep up the good work

[@beefplayslol1114]

Thanks for making the content man🙏🏾

[@pooheadz189]

and thank you for watching!

[@Scentillia389]

Ready for this new series!! I actually never thought much of future Gohan's strength. So this'll be an interesting discussion. I always felt that like Trunks, F Gohans biggest weakness was his lack of expertise in terms of martial arts philosophy and strategy. Unlike Goku and Vegeta, they may be strong but lack experience and or mystical teachings which made them less effective outside of sheer strength which hampered their effectiveness. Cell saga Gohan had his father's guidance on his side. But f gohan is not weak in strength. What you said is plain logic and why i like this channel. There's so many factors in the manga I see people overlook. From details to storytelling devices. F gohan is probably fairly strong. Def around if not past Yardrat Goku.

[@warenn4753]

Interesting video! I’ll use the comment section to add a theory that I’ve had for awhile now: We do know that the androids of the main and future timeline were not inherently evil, and instead were just looking for a purpose once they killed doctor Gero. In the present that means they went after Goku, as 17 states himself to Kurilin they don’t have to do this but it’s just for fun, even though they hated doctor Gero. However in this timeline they get stopped pretty quickly by stronger fighters and end up outclassed. But in the future timeline, there is no Goku once they are activated so they toy with the Z fighters and kill them. But at some point I think they realize that if they killed all of them, they would have no way to be entertained, as they state that killing humans can be boring. So my theory is that they purposefully let Gohan survive all of their encounters knowing that every time they start killing humans it is likely that he’ll come out and fight them (remember they can’t sense power levels so they can’t really track him down). Killing humans for them is basically a way to fish for an entertaining opponent, not the end goal. However, in the last fight Gohan had with them, he put up a very good fight against both at the same time. The way they looked at each other and understood immediately that it was time to kill him makes me think that Gohan must have been strong enough to pose an actual threat to both of them by that time, since killing him meant getting rid of their only toy left (they didn’t consider Trunks a real opponent at that time). Hence the change in demeanor they showcased right before killing him. They did this because Gohan was likely to win this fight if he got angry and gained even a bit of power. More than any statement or feat, that aligns with their characters and motivations, and shows that Gohan was stronger than the Androids individually but not enough to beat them both. I take his surprise as 17 says he didn’t use half his power last time as him just realising that the outcome of the fight was not as certain as he thought, not that he was unable to win. Gohan has always been way more pragmatic than Goku and wouldn’t have charged into battle without being sure he was able to take them on. And even then, he tends to not be sure of himself and forgets that when he’s angry his power skyrockets. All that to me confirms that Gohan was actually quite strong, at least on par with Vegeta during his fight with 18 in the present, if not slightly stronger. I know that the androids from the future were a bit weaker but not by a long shot, it just looks that way because they were never serious about the fights except for when they killed Gohan. It happens to align as well with your assessment which prompted my comment. Don’t know why so many fans have this idea that Gohan was weak when he was literally ganged up on by two unlimited energy androids that took him as a very serious threat, despite him having just one arm.

[@freezasama5802]

I have been long awaiting this video Future Gohan is the goat and he deserves the praise

[@Chrisezo]

I'd like to think that it wasn't that Gohan was weak in the future per say, but more along the lines that he was just exhausted and had his body battered from all the struggles and stuff, since he was basically the only person that could even try to oppose the Androids, and from what was shown in the alternate timeline the one we were able to see, even when people like Vegeta had been well rested and nourished, despite his combat potential and skill he still got wrecked by 18, and no matter how Trunks had stated that the Androids in that timeline were somehow even stronger, you have to keep in mind that so were Vegeta and the others, since they had been allowed to prepare for the fight thanks to the warning from Trunks, so that is why I strongly believe that all factors were just against future Gohan, since he was basically homeless living in the wilderness, he had to deal with limited resources due to many places of the Earth being destroyed, and he also had an obvious lack of a good training partner, since Trunks was just too young and inexperienced, yet Gohan would still go out of his way and try to stop the Androids from causing so much destruction whenever he could, even if he had to live with his sustained injuries afterward due to having no access to Senzu Beans or reliable medical facilities, so its actually a miracle that he had managed to last even that long, and honestly it had been his own fault that he even ended up dying, because after he lost his arm protecting Trunks, he should have prioritized just training Trunks even if it took a long time to do, and should he had needed guidance then he could have used his Ki sensing abilities to locate Master Roshi who had still been alive, as Roshi had been proven to be able to train just about anyone due to his years of experience and technique, even if his pupil was far stronger than him like Goku was, so Gohan should have been more patient and bet everything on Trunk's growth, but his good nature turned out to be his weakness because he just couldn't ignore the people that were being terrorized by the Androids, and in trying to stop the Androids he ultimately met his end, as his luck just about ran out when the Androids decided to get serious with him and take him out.

[@Aughlag]

I wonder why Piccolo never showed Gohan how to regenerate during their training. It certainly would’ve helped

[@NateBullock-ow6on]

That might be just an namekian thing but yes I agree he should have if he could

[@Flipitmixit]

😂

[@ThexVaultxTech]

You can't be serious?

[@mathematics557]

Luv your videos, appreciate all the content 💯💯💪🏾💪🏾 Edit: This breakdown was interesting, I remember a video somewhere on KZbin that was explaining how strong Future Gohan was in the "Anime". The answer they came up with based off of the feats he shown, his power was in the realm of piccolo fused with kami. That's very impressive.

[@pooheadz189]

Thanks so much, mathematics! And yeah, Future Gohan in the movie would definitely be way stronger than in the manga.

[@fhrdgr]

Eating good today! Had a video while getting ready for work, one on my lunch break, and one when i got home

[@pooheadz189]

That's what I like to hear!

[@Uguguabbabaa]

I agree with you issue with the fanbase for touting statements over feats as it leads to what you see in this video: reading way deep into statements. It's also why I don't entertain death battle discussion. That said, I do find this kind of speculation interesting, even if it requires a lot of reaching. The percentage stuff always makes me laugh, I remember a 500+ post thread on Gamefaqs between two guys arguing at what exact percentage of power between 40 and 49.9 SSJ2 Gohan was at during the final beam struggle with SPC.

[@Ghost-jq4ey]

yeah dbz fans take statements as gospel, it's how we ended up with the base cabba vs gogeta ssj4 meme

[@Scentillia389]

For real. Death battle discussions are brainrot

[@Uguguabbabaa]

@@Scentillia389 another thing that really gets me about death battle discussion is how often it, for lack of a better term, takes advantage of a creator's lack (or disinterest) of scientific knowledge to warp a character's depiction. Stuff like characters dodging lasers or other really fast stuff like ATLA character dodging lighting so they must move around at hundreds of mph (Aang's fast run notwithstanding). You can see it with DB with famous stuff like Goku grabbing the sunglasses or the iconic roshi/piccolo blowing up the moon. So you get people twisting characters to godlike beings when they are otherwise never intended to be as such. So stupid.

[@AL-nv4gk]

Saiyans not being able to breathe in space really gets too them too breaks there whole fanon Goku is way weaker / less hacks then people think by a lot I think the Powerpuff girls could all beat him individually no lie faster can breathe in space not even funny 😭🤣

[@Uguguabbabaa]

@@AL-nv4gk Not sure if this was in the manga, but I always remember Goku having to dodge the lava from dying Namek. I thought it was neat bit that the environment can still hurt someone as powerful as SSJ Goku.

[@DigitalLogos]

I think the one dividing point between Future Gohan and Yardrat Goku is technique and skill. While Gohan may have exceeded Goku and reached his Android saga strength, he still lacks the martial arts skill of Goku. So while Goku may be able to solo Cold, Frieza and Trunks, Gohan may not be able to even if he has the same strength because he isn't as skilled a fighter as Goku. So while Gohan could defeat 17 and 18 on strength scaling, its his utilization of that strength which really determines the outcome. And in this case, he still loses when they team up. Whereas Goku may not have lost despite being equal in strength with Gohan. I think this is one thing Super began to finally recognize with the TOP and beyond in the Manga.These characters have reached peak strength and have moved beyond that into honing techniques. UI isn't necessarily a strength boost as it is more of an avenue to efficiently utilize that strength. And this is what I'm getting at with future Gohan and Goku. Goku possesses more avenues to express this strength that Gohan doesn't quite have.

[@paulfrankenii7986]

Poo Dive time

[@yungblade7]

After losing his arm he got a huge Zenkai. He was probably stronger than android 17 but not the both of them. He'd do as well as Piccolo did if they fought 1v1 and didn't gang up on him.

[@Flipitmixit]

Not in the manga where he literally gets beat up by just Android 17

[@SaltedMallows]

Also impressive because Gohan didn't go to Yardrat and if he's nearly as powerful it's not too shabby.

[@lsixty30]

As an amateur writer I can definitely agree with the thought that feats should AT LEAST be weighed equal to statements, though I would argue they should be held higher. In more amateurish story telling everything is surface level, if a character says something like a fact then it's a fact. In nuanced story telling we are SHOWN not TOLD what is happening. It is the same logic as judging a character's morality by their actions, not by how the author wants you think about those actions. Ideally, the intent of the author and the "reality" of the story align.

[@honeybuster4049]

Ayeeee!!! Deep dive was my comment on Twitter!

[@chillsjiujitsu]

Wait this is actually a god tier argument, who cares if the common opinion is agreed upon more- even with the math being extrapolated the ratios make sense.

[@pooheadz189]

I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm p sure my math checks out and it makes sense, but I don't want to be biased lol

[@totalnewb123]

I wish they would’ve went into the mindset of future Trunks and how he doesn’t waste time dispatching his foes. I’m guessing being a hybrid allows future Gohan and then Trunks to not take a fight lightly knowing that it can cost them their lives.

[@pooheadz189]

Yeah, as a half saiyan he cares less about a good fight.

[@Supahdenning]

Why did he give his sword to King Cold and play around with him? This interpretation of his character is not supported by what is depicted. He could have just killed King Cold immediately without engaging him in conversation, but he did go out of his way to style on him like this.

[@Uguguabbabaa]

Was just thinking about this, not sure if it's enough for a video, but I really like to see an extrapolation on the Ginyu thing you mentioned, as I've always wondered about this: How big does the gap need to be between characters where they start to be able to take on a seemingly infinite number of them? Like in some situations characters of inexact PL can have tough matchs and the weaker fighter can win, and sometimes 2 decently weaker fighters can pull through, but we see a lot of "no amount of you can touch me" type matchups, especially later on. I didn't word that the best but I hope you understand what I mean. It always seemed to me like that later in the series 2v1's just stop working altogether, maybe the gulf between pl's is just too big.

[@Lucas-Fair]

Yeah, Future Gohan really had to do so much on his own to obtain the power he had. I had the same debate with a friend of mine some years ago. He's not weak, at all. And with the lack of means to train properly, I'd say, he did amazingly well. I really love Future Gohan, and his death always hit so hard.

[@AL-nv4gk]

I know it wasn't new but Future Gohans Shield was sick they should reintroduce it, damn android that killed him stole his move like he had that shit first 😭😂

[@aidanquinn2282]

I pioneered that argument too. Somewhere in a different future Gohan video comment section. Except I assumed gohan was on the higher end. Like 75% of the androids full strength.

[@occasionalstoner]

is there a possibility that what future Gohan tried to say was that he was wearing Goku's weighted clothes?

[@pooheadz189]

I would not think so, because if it was his weighted clothing, it would have helped, but Gohan here says they did not.

[@maxxxc101]

I want to see the Future Yardrat Goku fight Frieza and King Cold

[@Darkside-bv2zh]

Statements and feats? Tbh those two opinions about any anime character is why i disregard people's opinions on any matter. The overall story and development is what i actually see first. Statements are just fodder because it's just baseless opinions on how people think a character should be portrayed as without even having input in the creation of the character. Feats are just what a character does in the anime or manga that doesn't show the true merit of the character after the feat is done because they perform feats that get outclassed in either the next arc or just an episode or chapter later.

[@GuyDude-hk8uy]

Come to think of it (can't believe I never did before honestly) this line of thinking also kind of makes the possibility of King Cold having more forms less likely. Assuming King Cold's forms share physical similarities with Frieza - I just cannot believe that Goku (whom I agree would let them both transform) would be able to beat a final-form (as in, the same as Frieza's final form) King Cold, considering he's only in his 2nd form. I just can't see that working in any capacity, considering the massive power increase from each form to the next (again, assuming it would be similar to Frieza's, which is a fair assumption imo). There's ways you can work around this of course as there is with anything, like "maybe he isn't as strong as Frieza and is just a figurehead they respect enough not to kill" but it really made me reconsider the possibility of King Cold having multiple forms, when before I was sat firmly on the fence. Another retort I acknowledge is that maybe he only knows how to go to 3rd form, so maybe he just has *that* transformation, but I think that's splitting hairs somewhat.

[@Supahdenning]

The assumption that Goku would let them power up fully is incorrect. Goku would absolutely kill them quickly after his experiences with Freeza on Namek(no longer a planet that exists at that point in time, which would soon be joined by Earth if he dawdled around)

[@renownerd.276]

Are you sure gohan was sparring with a full super saiyan trunks? The hair was still the normal shade.

[@J91Y]

in the manga trunks is in ssj when they spar in the anime he didn’t unlock ssj till after gohan died

[@randomjhoni5993]

i dont think that frieza and king cold are necesarily stronger than namek goku, they cant sense ki so frieza doesnt know how strong goku is, and since he seriously thought that the beam after being cut in half would kill goku he isnt a good judge of his own power or the power of his adversaries

[@pooheadz189]

I'd chalk that down to him being a megalomaniac and attacking in the heat of the moment.

[@celldh0825]

I don’t think Freiza was really thinking about the chances of Last Emperor killing Goku.

[@Supahdenning]

Yeah, Freeza's last attack on Namek was just out of principle, not out of any expectation to win. He had decided to die over being spared by Goku is all.

[@re11o]

🔥👏🏾

[@collinboyd1734]

Ima be real it makes no since that future Gohan in base form didn’t get waxed by trunks when he went ssj

[@ericwhite1942]

Throwing my opinions in here before i watch the video so as to be unbiased. I feel that, after watch Gohan fight the androids in the future vs Trunks fighting the same androids then seeing Vegeta, Trunks, and the others fight the androids in present time, my opinion of Future Gohan (last battle before death) was slightly stronger than Vegeta in the present but weaker than Fused Piccolo. My reasons are as followed. Its accepted that the androids in the future are weaker than the androids in the past, as we see trunks able to somewhat hold his own against Future android 18 (probably wasnt stronger) but gets washed the second they double team him. In the present however he's easily brushed aside by 18 in the present. In the present we see Vegeta able to hold his own rather well against 18, showing hes significantly stronger than Trunks but is defeated handle when 18 goes full throttle. Now, in the future we see Gohan able to easily hold his own against 1 of the androids in the 1st battlebut becomes quickly overwhelmed when they double team him. However, in the 2nd fight, Gohan at first does much better against both of them but ultimately gets overwhelmed. However, i think that's only because he has 1 arm during that fight. It wasnt until the androids ajusted their tactics to take a full advantage of his missing limb that the tide turned. So in total, id say Future Gohan is more powerful than present Vegeta, although probably not by a overwhelming degree. I think present android 18 would still be stronger, but only slightly. Plz anyone who disagrees let me know....respectively if able.

[@gjergj124]

Let’s go !!!

[@HellStar24]

Wait there’s a dragon ball debate tournament?????????????

[@pooheadz189]

There were awhile ago! Might still be, but idk.

[@Flipitmixit]

The weakest ssj in the series unless you count Bardock 🙏🏿

[@camcrawford8520]

Your favorite character list is suspect 👀👀

[@DUDEERUDEE]

Future Gohan definitely would’ve beaten 18 if she and him were alone

[@pikafanfan9405]

Future Goku’s time of death in the manga is never definitively stated. Only that it was “not long from now” as stated in the manga. The context being Trunks saying to this Goku who just landed on Earth. The 6 months before the attack is anime-only. Also, face-value interpretations are the most reliable form of evidence. Especially when dissecting the writing of a simply story written by the author. The author doesn’t have a history of creating complex depth with statements, which is why they usually mean what they are stating. So, to deny face-value statements the author makes for his characters to say in-universe, creates flimsy evidence.

[@Greenbeast101]

Do you believe future Gohan (with both arms) could defeat Android #19?

[@pooheadz189]

Hard to say. I think him with one arm could, but him a year before he died? It's a toss up, really.

[@riffraff5374]

He was probably even stronger than this, fighting with one arm would be insanely hard. Most likely in order to win Gohan would’ve needed to be much stronger than is opponent. Even worse is that would have to fight back to back opponents or worse again at 2 opponents at the same time. Future Gohan is a Beast!

[@srgzachattack1594]

I didn't vote or know about it but why even have a poll

[@collinboyd1734]

I know this is completely off topic but chichi could easily kill bulma in a fight if she got a wild hair

[@jarrettmcbride77]

I feel like you should branch off to explaining other anime in detail. (Probably a lot of research) Or maybe History in general

[@pooheadz189]

I do plan on getting to other anime sometime soon, though anything history based would be on my other channel!

[@jarrettmcbride77]

@@pooheadz189 oh I have to check your other channel. And I heard you mention you trained in Martial Arts! Very cool 👍😎

[@Jewel_Screaming_Chango8387]

Future gohan was stronger than both the androids individually

[@pooheadz189]

In the anime movie, not in the manga

[@user-kl5zd2oe3e]

Strong enough for a man... ...but made for a woman.

[@pawegorka8589]

Was future gohan strong or weak? What a stupid question 😂

[@pooheadz189]

hey thanks

[@thediaz07]

I'm sorry but future Gohans PL makes zero sense...this is post Freeza saga and Gohan had Goku another 2 years after Freeza's defeat.. Goku would train him a bit.

[@thediaz07]

Gohan has had at least 2 fights with the androids...Saiyans are known for raising their PLs to the levels of their last enemies...so gohan should've gotten to the androids levels after 1 fight... definitely 2.

[@abpajotte-1]

Namek Freiza = Future Gohan

[@pooheadz189]

uh, how

[@abpajotte-1]

@@pooheadz189 he was able to take on the Androids...

[@l_3216]

future poohan is significantly weaker than yarhead gopoo

[@pooheadz189]

so true, king