DCS VR Optimizations - MYTH BUSTED - A sort of peer review of the Lukas S 0.5 Pixel Density video

[@epicjourneyman2145]

Nice Work! I spend most of my VR time across multiple headsets trying to figure out the best VR settings to somehow achieve the ultimate miracle of totals smoothness with zero dropped frames or stuttering - it's a total science project and something of an obsession of mine now that I have an I9/3090 combo. This trick seemed to work at first with my 8K X and I was able to keep it in 75hz mode because it averaged around 40 FPS and would stay smooth with motion smoothing enabled...I later noticed that the textures weren't actually matching up and when I tried it on the G2 it was inferior to running in 60 hz mode (which I could run native without motion smoothing) and the Index basically didn't seem to care because though it seemed to have higher frames from the data I was seeing on fpsVR, the actual effect was negligible. This explains why. The G2 at native 60 hz without reprojection on and "Ultra" detail settings seems to be the best experience overall...but man it's hard to give up that Pimax FOV when you're barrel rolling an F16 in Syria...

[@zaloarg]

Man, I have an I7 8700 32gb of memory and an AMD RX 5600 XT and DCS was unplayable for me in VR. I have an oculus quest 2. Putting the oculus quest in the recommended resolution with DCS PD1.4 I was getting constant 36 FPS with the help of AWS but the GPU was working at a 100% almost all the time and I was seeing stutter here and there. So I applied the same logic. I have the standalone DCS, the non steam DCS, so I cranked up the oculus resolution to the maximum and I set the DCS supersampling to 0.6 or 0.7 and bum, excelent resolution and it was the end of all stutters and the GPU is working between 70 to 80%. I was even able to crank up the graphics quality a bit. This idea solved my life. Now I have the Oculus quest 2 working at 72hz and getting 36 constant hz in densely populated areas and I can do low flybys around areas with a tons of building and zero stutter, even if I look through the window towards fast moving spots.

[@simontaylor8774]

Hi buddy - what are your tray tool settings? Cheers

[@zaloarg]

@@simontaylor8774 I dont use Tray Tool at all. I use Oculus Debug tool with super sampling at 0.6 AWS to auto, Supersampling inside DCS also 0.6 and the resolution in the oculus device cranked to the max 5408x2736

[@simontaylor8774]

@@zaloarg sorry missed your reply - thanks i will give that a try.

[@British-Dragon-Simulations]

This is great! Saved to my DCS play list. Thanks DCS brother! This community has quite a few uber IQ pilot's in. It's great seeing the achievements from the community over the years. Adding apps and even building mission campaigns. DCS has progressed very well. Especially lately. VR seems to be the next hill to get over for a lot of people, but we will do it. I only get 45fps on a Vive Pro with a 3080. I'm hoping to get a locked 90fps in the future. That means a consistent (lower than) 11ms of latency for me. I'm at about 15ms to 18ms right now, when I'm on the deck in the countryside in a WWII Warbird (BF 109K lately), Normandy or The Channel. In a clear sky at high altitude it will jump to 90fps when I look out the cockpit window. I expect that's the same for most VR users, as their is nothing up there to render. Trying to turn everything down to get below 11ms of latency seems pointless as you barely reach it when you are in the air. So I just turn almost everything all the way up in the graphical settings. I can either play at 12ms at 45fps and it looks terrible or I can play at 18ms at 45 and it looks great. Turning everything up looks better for recording as well as the textures are more detailed at 1440p.

[@CramcrumBrewbringer]

Keep in mind it's "per eye" with fps. SO if you can get 45 hz refresh, you're technically getting 90

[@driftvader8869]

I finally understood what the global Resolution does after you have explained it! So instead of sharpening the picture the Headset is widening the picture so it prepares for headmovement etc. Given that I mainly play DCS and Race Sims with very limited drastic head movement I have thrown away performance which could I use to improve FPS or Visual Quality! Thanks a lot

[@godfreynet]

Woow... you bit hard into this... well done!!!

[@coRb77]

My game is running a bit smoother now with 0,5 + 450% set. Previously I had 1.1 dp and + 90% set. Comparing these two settings I get about the same sharpness in cockpit, but getting less framedrops with the new 0.5 DP setting. So for me, it worked so to say.

[@Jabbers]

If it works then leave it alone :)

[@TheCubanN3rd]

Probably depends on what type of workload you current set up perfers doing. Im assuming regular rendering vs upscaling different parts may be getting utilized. Maybe the encoder picking up the slop?

[@jontrout2010]

I tried it, got terrible stutters, and went back to what I was doing before, so it's nice to see an explanation for why!

[@m0rph3u5.]

@Jabbers thanks for this great informative video. I wish you could release an updated video to your 4 years old "DCS Worlds - All things VR" regarding your settings and recommendations.. etc since I am pretty sure there are way more Index owners now and likely using GTX 3080/3090.

[@Jabbers]

If I ever get back to content creation sure, I actually have a approx 20 page script about dcs graphics settings that I never turned into a video due to lack of interest in dcs all together, maybe one day

[@phillipromano8502]

@@Jabbers I have an index with a 3090 ti and 12900k, I wish I could see those pages! Thank you for this video mate

[@Tonkotsu2k10]

Thanks for the video! I may be wrong but I thought the idea of Lukas' video was to have a lower PD in DCS and higher percentage in steamVR was because DCS' PD settings are less efficient/more taxing when supersampling (which all this is as I understand it) than SteamVR is, so you would theoretically get higher frametimes by having higher SteamVR percentages on a lower DCS PD. So youre 500% oversampling of .5 PD should reduce aliasing in the headset for less system overhead than having a higher DCS PD/lower steamVR sampling %. So the idea being that its less taxing on the system to oversample to reduce aliasing than reducing oversampling through DCS. So, with all things equal, if you were to have Two settings, A and B (A being low PD/high Steam% and B being highPD/Low steamPD)would have the same resolution per eye (thus same frame rate). but you want to oversample the reduce aliasing, and SteamVR gives more granularity for less overhead that DCS PD would. does that make sense? thats how I understand it, but i could be wrong.

[@maotseovich1347]

Jabbers did say that he got the same frame _rate_ when he got DCS PD settings configured that output the same resolution. So this suggests that putting the load on one more than the other doesn't improve framerates, but it doesn't test whether the quality of the frames delivered is better. But try doing that scientifically. You'd have to find 50 people who all have the same headset and somehow have them do a blind test. I guess you could make the test blind by having someone connect in via Teamviewer and edit their settings for them while they turn off their monitor and take off their headset...?

[@adsilite]

There will be a time with AR/VR with human eye resolution for everybody. Dont know when (in a Ready Player One like world?). Historians will look back and thank people like Lukas and Jabbers for their efforts to push forward for an absolute DCS experience. Thanks to both of you.

[@willhartsell2283]

Thank you!! I have been trying to explain this to people every since his video came out

[@cehovski3690]

So have I. I've done the tests as soon as I've seen Lukas video and immediately noticed that resolution is in fact smaller and there's no magic in this. It's still good effort from Lukas.

[@radosawbiernacki9615]

Guys, just check the application resolution in fpsVr. It is so simple. You do not have to make calculation to check the resolution of the buffer (texture buffer) used before re-projection.

[@Jabbers]

It's not right on all devices

[@jibcot8541]

I tried this and noticed straight away on my Quest2 that text looked more blocky, hence it being a lower resolution, thanks for busting this myth.

[@thudvr4dcs287]

Well done! We all learned a thing or two (or 12) about how all this works. Worthy efforts all around. It's a journey...

[@JoJo-vm8vk]

My experience with Rift S and Super Sampling (DebugTool) is that super sampling decreases visual range detection (aircraft in clear sky without labels). But I’m confused, I thought that DCS PD was applied before headset super sampling ?

[@hansangb]

@12:37....DRATS!!! The old dreaded off by one error!!!! :) Nice job digging into this. That RederDoc looks pretty cool

[@carrierairwingeleven1747]

Your first mistake.. you were on Hoggit.. :D

[@SINBADsRiffs]

I got a psvr for free and hooked it up to my pc and this is the only video that helped me get dcs running smooth and looking good

[@mhe0815]

A little factual correction: 100% resolution in global settings in SteamVR is NOT the exact resolution of the headset, in fact it varies with what the driver profile for the headset dictates. With Rift S or Index, it is somewhat close, but with a G2, it is about 1,5 times of the native panel res. Why different headsets have to utilize different levels of rendering excess resolution has to do with lens geometry, and if you want to be really picky about it, you'd have to do those calculations per color channel, since different colors are just different wavelengths, which is why they travel slightly different through a common lens of a given optical density. And this is also why you can tinker with stuff like chromatic aberration in software quite well (as was evident with the first WMR driver update after the G2 launch, clarity got much better). And then there is lens canting (especially Pimax, StarVR and XTAL, slightly with Index), which is where you start to have to use parallel projection in software. It is a clusterfuck of interdependent factors, which is why the results are all over the place. A somewhat good explanation as to what affects those optical aspects is here: risa2000.github.io/vrdocs/docs/hmd_fov_calculation So you apply a lens distortion multiplier, then the steam global per eye multiplier and the per app multiplier, with DCS PD being the last in the chain. But the lens distortion multiplier isn't its own thing in the SteamVR software stack, is it? So where do you take this lens distortion multiplier from? Because it is definitely headset specific.

[@Jabbers]

I got it from a steam support thread about the slider itself and why the resolution wasn't accurate. I found the 1.4 multiplier in a lot of places. The math seems to work for most headset values I Plugged in but you are right maybe it's different per headset and if so I can update the calculator to allow entry of that variable but without having the headset itself I cannot test.

[@mhe0815]

@@Jabbers Okay, that would explain why 100% is not native headset res. It really seems like it is headset res + overhead for distortion correction. So this is why the factor is around 1.5 for the G2.

[@Masterkey96967]

I'm gonna try this with my quest 2. I'm tired of being jumped by bandits I literally can't see until I'm 2 miles away or lose them with the ground clutter

[@Foxromeoindia]

Thanks Jabbers. Finally a video that explains the relation between PD and SteamVR %es. Now we need every VR user to watch this video.

[@mitch_the_-itch]

Thanks man! Can you do one where you go over the settings? Option over load. Somewhat confusing for me still. So in the SteamVR settings the two different video sliders do the exact same thing? One is simply for ALL games the other is for select games? The global setting is always set for 140% to accommodate the lens of your index (I use the Odysee+) ? Why wont DCS stay in this list of games in SteamVR settings/video then per app video settings? Can I add it? Weird that IL2 shows up. I can run all of these games perfectly at 4k@60hz on my monitor (3840x2160) and the visuals are stunning (for a pancake view anyway). Yet my Odyssey has a lower two eye resolution (1440x3200) and looks like a steamy pile? In WMR wouldn't you be better off using 60hz with no reprojection than using Reprojection from 90hz down to 45fps? 60hz is better FR than 45 isnt it? Whoever decided that 90hz@4k is the standard spec for VR almost killed VR in the womb, lol. WHY? These old proprietary game engines cant do 90hz@4k even on the most insane PC build. Let alone 5 years ago.

[@mhe0815]

Okay, so we have established, that less pixels get rendered faster (duh), but why does PD in DCS affect the CPU load whereas Supersampling in Steam seems to do far less so? The variance in CPU frametimes is measurably lower with the PD 0.5 but stays pretty much the same with the GPU. Check it out with fpsVR.

[@Jabbers]

I'm not seeing that at all. If yiu adjust PD and steam SS to result in the same resolution with either adjust PD or just SS the fps and frame time are the same

[@mhe0815]

@@Jabbers I'd have to test it on my Index, but it is the case on my G2. The difference between those two obviously being the resolution at hand but also WMR being involved, which does God knows what in the background. I have a friend measure his Rift S setup and we could get higher performance at same res out of it with forcing SteamVR than letting DCS use the Oculus driver directly. There is something really odd going on here. I'll be back home next week and play around with your calculator and test more and get back to you if I find anything that stands out. Thanks for your deep dive, I learned quite a bit today. Oh, and I never heard of renderdoc, this thing is brilliant!

[@Jabbers]

Ya I'd love to know the numbers for comparison

[@IceNein763]

Before watching the video: PD 0.5 means 0.5x0.5=0.25, because in game PD is by axis. x5 Steam VR = 1.25 or 125% pixels. PD 1.4 means 1.4x1.4=1.96 x1 steam VR = 196% of pixels Therefore the two things being compared are not equal.

[@Jabbers]

Not how it works, please watch the video

[@fullspecwarrior]

I'd like someone to double check Jabbers' spreadsheet because the final calculation for effective PD looks wrong to me. The base Steam VR Multiplier isn't taken into account (you can see this on the video too when he changes the base percentage from 140% to 100% and the effective PD doesn't change). I believe the EPD at the 140%/500%/0.5 settings is closer to 1.75, not 1.118 EDIT: Discussing it on /r/hoggit now

[@Vanguard2323]

What was the outcome, I was asking the same question. Why would you test this at 140% global and 140% app specific and add more variables in the mix. 100% and 500% would have been better. Is 50% global + 200% app specific = 100%? Is it the greater of the two. Why test 140% of 500%. And for G2 users I believe these numbers are different, 100% already has 40% built in, and it's mostly G2 users reporting an increase. Would be nice to hear what you settled on in your discord discussions.

[@fullspecwarrior]

@@Vanguard2323 He agreed his calculations were wrong. He was cool about it but I gotta say, if it was me I'd have done the maths, had it verified by someone and contacted the guy who made the original video before making a video with DEBUNKED plastered on the front

[@thebiggestoneyouveverhad]

I appreciate this but, stuff like this makes my head hurt. I really wish there was something more definitive for recommended settings based on the different hmds that are out there. It's a shame that the whole implementation of VR in DCS is such a chore. I'm pretty sure the new clouds are going to break VR anyways. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[@Youda00008]

@John Doehler DCS engine is basically modernized Lock-On engine, they added a lot of new features and graphical effects, but the architecture of the engine is probably still the same. Not gonna get better until they rewrite major part of it.

[@brannanjohnson4046]

Good job on a well produced video. Also appreciate Lukas effort pushing for optionality. One question for you both. I am currently flying most of my time in a WW2 server where we do not have labels, and we do not have on-aircraft radar. In regards to (a) spotting aircraft early, and (b) not losing them as their size passes above 1 px, and (c) then identifying that aircraft early as possible with spyglass VR, what thoughts/recommendations do you have?

[@gregpruitt1647]

Thanks for doing this video. I am trying to get my head around all the various recommendations for setting up VR. As a new VR user this; and for that matter, all the discussion around headset settings are insanely confusing. My HP Reverb G2 resolution is something like 2160 Per eye, right? So, why does SteamVR's per eye resolution at 100% shows a resolution per eye of 3156 x 3092. I don't get it.

[@Jabbers]

Overdrawn for lens distortion

[@reltius2993]

Wait why are you multiplying by 1.4 twice in a row? The 2016x2240 is already scaled 1.4x

[@MrSnacko]

Thanks for this awesome information Jabbers!! After going through your spreadsheet in OpenOffice Calc, I found a few issues. In your notes you say "The top one in B24 is always based on E14 and .....". That should say B23 I believe. That is the second to last row. And then the other note that refers to B25 should be B24. Also, in OpenOffice the formula in B23 was giving an error. Here is what worked for me: =CONCATENATE(CONCATENATE(CONCATENATE("Effective PD @ ";E14*100); "% RPE & "); "100% CRM") Cheers!!

[@Jabbers]

Ya It's a typo from changing the grid and not the note, b23 is based on e14

[@terrysharpe23]

Hey Jabbers I'm looking to get some training in the F-18 for DCS, where would you suggest I begin?

[@Jabbers]

Plenty of dcs discords with plenty of nice folks who'd be willing to give training or help out

[@torreypine]

Nice video, Jabbers. Thanks for making it. I’d like to do a similar analysis for my Rift S on non-Steam DCS using Oculus Tray Tool. RenderDoc-which I didn’t know about-is an huge help. Do you know of any documentation or explanation of the pipeline for the Oculus tool path? I presume DCS PD is applied followed by OTT but that is a presumption, not fact. I’m also wondering if there are any hidden factors not exposed in a GUI somewhere-such as the Oculus contextual application of Prioritize Quality vs Prioritize Performance. Again, thanks!

[@sergeydudkin92]

How do you capture frames in DCS using renderdoc? I'm trying to capture, the DCS starts, but the frames are not captured, and the API line says none. Does frame capture work for you on the current version of DCS 2.9?

[@Jabbers]

It no longer works

[@sergeydudkin92]

@@Jabbers It is very strange. Thanks for the answer

[@nephilimjones338]

Umm, How do I determine the barrel distortion multiplyer in my Reverb G2? Well I know how to calculate it but I cant as my headsets cable is broke so basically does anyone already know the Distortion number?

[@tsharksedge4072]

Mathematics in relation to human perception is at best a starting point. Lukas' video gave me a starting point and he tells you that your mileage may vary. My final settings, that I am very pleased with, were different. You just gotta play with it!

[@havok2]

Changing VR Res in Steam after Launching Game did not changing Resolution of DCS. You had to change it before you launch it and with 500% its hard to move the mouse even with my 3090 RTX :D

[@Jabbers]

U have to change the custom resolution multiplier while dcs is running then restart for it to take effect

[@SebastienChedalBornu]

Are you sure we need this 1.4 multiplicator because of the lens distorsion ? Is it not because it was a convenient way to do super sampling because of pentile OLED screens taht oculus CV1, htc vive and vive pro and valve index are using ? i will play around with this to see if it's the real for my HP reverb G2 or not. (i naturally would go to ratio that provides an output resoution that matches my screens resolutions of 2160*2160 per eye

[@Jabbers]

More there for verification and to match the numbers I'm seeing in steamvr and in renderdoc

[@SebastienChedalBornu]

@@Jabbers yeah on my side I tried with 50% in global steam VR as this was matching my native resolution. I also tried 70% to try to have slightly better visuals at minimum cost. But I'm not sure if it's really better or not, or of it's better to put msaax2 instead.

[@Jabbers]

Gonna be 100% up to you, if it feels good then leave it

[@Slambog]

Has Lukas deleted that video you linked? I had used that video some time ago when it came out and my eyes definitely noticed a difference.

[@Jabbers]

Correct, he removed it after I made this cause of the points I made and the confusion his video caused

[@JozefTrubac]

Any chance of getting the VR performance optimization video?

[@Jabbers]

I don't VR and there are so options I can't test cause I only use steamvr, look up "Thud VR dcs" in Google for a blog and discord community dedicated to this

[@albundi2985]

Good explanation that confirms allot of things for me. Tx to both of you.

[@Brody961]

Hey what is the barrel distortion multiplier that you added to the Google sheets calculator. This is new stuff for me and im just trying to figure out what setting that is. I have the G2 so my resolution is 4320x2160

[@MrScott_e]

Ryan, I, too, have the G2 and would like to get the best performance and resolution in DCS as possible. However, all this geeky stuff is more than I can process so, I would appreciate it if you would reach out to me when you determine you best settings. My system is /was top of the line a year ago, I9-9900K @ 5.0 GHz, 32GB 4133 Ram, EVGA RTX2080 Ti Kingpin Hybrid unlocked with 11GB Vram

[@Jabbers]

All headsets have a multiplier for barrel distortion, 1.4 is a generalization based on the vive and index, the G2 multiplier is slight different but I don't have one so I don't know the exact number

[@corychester5865]

Hi. So I am using a Samsung O+ and the numbers from your spreadsheet dont add up. it is also 1440 x 1600 per eye (Samsung states 2880 x 1600 res) and in SteamVR at 100% it is showing 1440 x 1812 per eye? Ive tried to play with the numbers (aspect ratio, Barrel Distortion Multiplier.....are these different for different headsets?) and I cant even get it close. Any Ideas?

[@Jabbers]

The o2 barrel distortion multiplier must be different from everything else. At a quick search I don't see anything listed online for it. I think what I've been able to determine through from feedback from others is that the sweet spot for performance and clarity is around 150-175% resolution per eye (or custom resolution multiplier)

[@corychester5865]

Thanks for the replay. I've been playing around and so far with steamSS main @ 100 and dcs dp at 1.0 I'm happy with per app setting of 200% for a 2044 x 2564 res. Gonna keep playing but you're video definitely helped me understand it better. Also I am now getting a better fps result too

[@AndriyMisuyrak]

This is nuts, very nice Jabbers. There is one thing you didn't mention (and I would love you to talk and analyze this aspect): -Wolta's video may be wrong on the resolution and FPS side but what about the image clarity and steamvr supersampling ? Does it makes for a better visual clarity to do the upscaling in Steam VR instead of DCS render engine or it is the same result anyways ??? If you have the tools and knowledge to scientifically analyze this kind of information it would be really usefull to all vr community. Thanks

[@Jabbers]

twitter.com/imjabbers/status/1375913053271719936?s=19 And streamable.com/x2xkok

[@AndriyMisuyrak]

@@Jabbers Thanks your answer is detailed and complete. The second link should be investigated further, since you gave us the tools to do the analysis. The 2 pictures seems almost identical but the one with 1.4 PD seems slightly more sharper actually.

[@Jabbers]

Right but worse performance, the settings used in that image are the same for the right image in Lukas video.. It should look sharper, at the cost of performanxe

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

I literally saw the same advice popping up on Misfis when VR dropped just a day before Kroßtmes... As a programmer myself, the first thing I learnt about was barrier free UI design. There's a special place in hell for people who put white font on a light grey background. SCNR :D 8:52 You're wrong here. That's not a calculation, but the PD setting within DCS. He doesn't give the effective PD at any point. 14:37 If you had DCS PD at 1.4 in that table instead of 1, it would match, resulting in the higher effective res and therefor explaining the lower frame rates. Lukas said he (and others) were cranking the values until it subjectively looked about the same. So basically you didn't bust a myth per se in this case, but explained how things work and helped us understand that much better. I only wish to know how this works out with Oculus now as it has a different lens distortion scaler (I think it's 1.3 repetend as my 1080x1200 CV1 has a 100% res in Steam of 1440x1600), but the PD setting in neither the Oculus Debug Tool nor the Oculus Tray Tool works at all (just like the ASW setting, also stays on no matter what I set there). So this is a bit of a mess when SteamVR isn't in use. His examples are: Left: 0.5 DCS / 500 Steam = 1.118 effective Right: 1.4 DCS / 100 Steam = 1.183 effective So the right one being higher, naturally resulting in the lower frame rates he noticed. TL;DR: DCS 1.0 / Steam 100% would match DCS 0.5 / Steam 400% as it's width an height each / area respectively. BTW thanks for showing that RenderDoc tool. Didn't know it yet and it seems to be a great thing to have when tinkering with the settings.

[@ViperZero-qn1wg]

​ @Jabbers I'm not good at English, but let me report. With HTC Vive　GTX2080 PD1.0 SS500%. Incredibly, it works very comfortably. PD2.5 SS100%. If you raise the SS, it will look like a picture show instead of a video. Comparing these, SS500% was easy to read the instruments meters and gauges and had almost no flicker. I think Lukas’s setting works well on low resolution HMDs. I think it's very healthy and good that his report and your verification and verified post by many peoples . I hope it continues.Thank you. :)

[@01Gator]

Is there a reason the formulas in E22 and F22 do not match. When putting numbers above or below 100% in E13 and F13 the results in E22 and F22 are different.

[@Jabbers]

I'll take a look, sounds like maybe I updated the formula for 1 column but forgot the other

[@Jabbers]

Fixed, it was a miscalculation in F22 thanks for pointing it out!

[@Bane_Diesel]

I am an index owner running with a 2080ti and I have to tone it down to get good frame rates. I have always wanted to use dcs on someone else's pimped out pc with index on dcs with highest settings. However... seeing that none of my friends or family have dcs let alone vr I don't think that is gonna happen.

[@Jabbers]

I have a 3090 and can't run on the highest settings.

[@Logan-fc2bb]

Simple: Turn off ALL „Helpers“ in DCS. Only all Grapics on max. Then in Nvidia-Settings ALL „Helpers“ ON. Enjoy super graphics and performance.

[@RoT-Victor3]

Awesome job Jabbers, thanks for explaining it!

[@armhunter]

Thank you for that.. I went back to my old setting right before I saw this video.. I wasn't getting the clarity he was speaking of. I am still tweaking my setting trying to get the best visual quality and keeping my 70FPS. Im now going to try to leave it at a PD of 1.0 and mess with the Steam setting since its more precise.

[@joeymorris4863]

So… will my Commodore 64 handle these values?

[@Jabbers]

Yes

[@stevoskop0015]

Thx for your work man👍 so if i understand right, i place the max Horizontal and vertikal Pixel of the pimax 8kX in the first excel cells? Can you tell me what is the aspect ratio and the Barrel Distortion of the pimax 8k x?

[@Jabbers]

Aspect is a calculated field based on the widt and height of the per eye display, barrel distortion is 1.4

[@bobr8766]

Great vid...well done. DCS in VR with the Reverb G2 at native resolution and spotting enemy planes (dot or smudge) at 10nm in Multiplayer...can it be done, or are we dreaming (with the graphics engine DCS uses) ? Right now with the G2 I have to run Steam VR Global at 70%, SteamVR DCS at 70%, and DCS PD at .7 just to see a faint smudge of an enemy plane at 5-7nm. Thank you for your thoughts!

[@S3NTRY]

I'll double check, but I think I'm at about the same for SteamVR res, but 1.0 for PD and I can spot out to 10 miles, I would say. It becomes a question of what your hardware can handle. If there's no more performance left to get that extra pixel density, I don't think there is much you can do, but maybe tweak graphics options in DCS, or turn on dot labels, which probably isn't an option in MP.

[@bobr8766]

@@S3NTRY I am running a i9 9900K 5.0 all cores, 32gb 3200 ddr 4, Samsung 970 Evo plus, Asus Tuf OC RTX 3090 O/c'd ... If I run resolution to where you can see what color the enemy's eye are, I can''t see the enemy plane at 1-2nm...Can't run dot labels in full real...Storm of War server...Thanks!

[@matydrum]

Does the graphic resolution in the dcs option, 1280x720 and so on, does it do anything to VR, to the resolution in the headset? If it does how should I set it?

[@Jabbers]

No it's ignored when VR is enabled

[@matydrum]

@@Jabbers thanks

[@lgignac22]

Can anyone translate the Google sheet to display the information for OTT?

[@ChannelScottify]

I was plagued by a strange lagg at curtain times when flying with the 0.5PD and 500% in Steam VR.

[@ChannelScottify]

But, I appreciate people looking for better performance and sharing it!

[@GER-Thorgs]

Thanks for the in-depth look at the matter.

[@FACrazyCanuck]

Like you I wanted to believe. I ran my own tests and it didn’t work. I use Oculus Tray Tool in the Rift S and the math wasn’t right. OTT multiplies the PD in game by the OTT to give effective PD and setting DCS in game to .5 and OTT to 2.5, (which is the highest setting) and the effective PD 1.25 and it looked like crap. Went back to the settings in OTT that I have tested. The question I have would I see visual improvement if I used Steam VR instead of OTT?

[@ForeverDoubting]

Make sure you check with the tray tool HUD at which resolution you're running, because I noticed really strange stuff happening, sometimes settings just wouldn't change, or they're linked or something. Either way the oculus tray tool or dcs or both seem seriously buggy at times in my experience.

[@cmdr-aurus-rex]

i think you are making a wrong assumption here. The global resolution per eye and the resolution per app in steamVR are actually multiplied. Technically it doesn't matter if you crank up global and leave "per app" at 100% or if you do it vice versa, you end up with same effective resolution. If you crank up both, like you did in the video, no wonder that you get much larger resolution as both values are applied. First the global resolution is scaled and then "per app" resolution is scaled on top of that.

[@Jabbers]

Ya that WAS my point, I realized they are multipliers, and I understand their difference global vs per app. See the calculator, it all makes sense and works

[@electronicgenius3069]

I enjoyed watching this. i got 2080 super and an index and i still cant get rid of how shimmery fences and posts look

[@theeltea]

I knew it! :) Thanks for your analysis.

[@ColinDyckes]

Great video explaining the interactions, BUT, assuming CPU and GPU power are sufficient, what would be the 'ideal' settings to get what could be called 1:1 pixel mapping between game and headset (mine is a G2)? That way the user could decide whether to reduce things like view distance etc to increase framerate without compromising overall image quality, or accept that overall compromise via sampling. That might settle all those 'magic' settings videos once and for all! 🙂

[@Jabbers]

1 to 1 would be 100% and 1.0 PD

[@ColinDyckes]

@@Jabbers Thanks. I wasn't sure if that took barrel projection oversized images into account. From the values displayed I believe it does.

[@Jabbers]

100%in steamvr accounts for barrel distortion

[@VladislavGoryachev]

Why hardcoded value in F22? =(F20/F7/1.4/F13) Short version: 0.5*sqrt(5) < 1.4

[@Jabbers]

1.4 is the hard coded multiplier in steamvr for lens distortion

[@jisellan]

One quick question when you change the config in steam vr do you need to restart it to take the new config ?

[@Jabbers]

You need to restart dcs only

[@TheCubanN3rd]

For those using Oculus Link on a Quest2 - does the steam vr settings override the Oculus app settings?

[@Jabbers]

Only if yiu force dcs to run on steamvr with the command line arguments

[@TheCubanN3rd]

@@Jabbers interesting thanks, I just launch dcs inside of the steam vr "lounge" room. This is not enough then?

[@Jabbers]

Nope that likely launches dcs using the oculus compositor

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

@@Jabbers Even then it doesn't override them - it uses the Oculus setting as a base. Different Oculus Link settings result in different 100% values in SteamVR. So basically it's another variable in the pool, but SteamVR does show the actual render res just without factoring in the DCS setting.

[@Ludiks]

With Pimax headsets you have to (most people just swear only by SteamSS so they dont do this and complain for performances but..oh well) raise the Pitool rendering and lower the SteamSS to get the same or better quality with better performances.

[@krostouin]

Never worked for me, Im probably one of the people who tried everything with Pimax drivers. Headset is in the trashbin, but I should resell it to its original targeted customers : adult video clubs

[@1965kings]

how can i use calculator? its locked view only.

[@Angarak]

if you have a google account you can copy from jabbers links to your own drive then edit as you please.

[@1965kings]

@@Angarak I downloaded it to my puter and used free Microsoft office ties to my hotmail account. All good

[@Templar7832]

Great video Jabbers. This has been mystifying ever since I got the G2 and have been wrestling to make it look ok. A friend tried to get me to do the low pd value and high other rates but it certainly didn’t work for me. The cockpit in my hornet was jagged and terrible way worse than my RiftS so I think I have it set to what you suggested here but will check for sure. This video will get shared a lot I suspect!

[@dave1994jones]

Did it work? Just got my G2 and while the cockpit looks good for me, anything outside looks like it's from a 2008 game

[@damzduro1]

Thanks for a great in depth video and really well explained 👍

[@TheeShaggySniper]

As soon as I saw these posts I was a bit weary about it. The way I understood it was that you're telling DCS to essentially render it at a lower resolution, and then telling Steam to enhance it. Downscale to 480p, then upscale it to 4k. Better framerates? Ye. Better resolution?...it'll appear softer, but not clearer.

[@Jabbers]

But that's not what happens, in the end there is no magic because all the multipliers just add up to the same.

[@KenCrawford1]

Thanks for this! with my Pimax 8KX we have another factor in Pitool that can mess with the math - So I have my DCS PD set to 1 and my Pitool render quality set to 1 but my 100% SteamVR is not showing the 140% at 100%. I am showing 3712x3160. Using your calculator I have an aspect ratio of 1.77 and with the 140% it should read 5376x3024. That means something else is messing with the render pipeline

[@DS-ze7yc]

I concur - same Pimax 8KX 3712x3130. What gives with these "secret Distortion multipliers". Give us the truth in %. We obviously can handle it. It's like all the steam Vr people decided "Well we know the true resolution of your HMD, but we are going to arbitrarily assign a SS multiplier so that your games don't look as bad as that - because we're smarter than you". At least the should have said what the multiplier is when they put that 3712x3130. Just confuses things and adds more math under the hood.

[@S3NTRY]

Turns out I didn't need to try it. Cheers Jabbers

[@christianwistberg]

Excellent video Jabbers!

[@nelspotts5311]

So.... I thought this idea was purely a performance over visuals. I people who did this seemed to get better visuals per performance. I don't think it had anything to do with number crunching. Sure, the calculation was off when given a comparison example, but that was way far from the point.

[@Void304]

I don't think there's much, if anything, we can do about the generally poor frames in DCS until ED rolls out their forthcoming "optimization". Whatever that is.

[@ceecrb1]

Me and mates have been arguing over this for over 6 months. I also did the same maths as you did and dissagreed. The only thing I see as different is the visual cuality of one and the other. Meaning there seem to be slight differences in antialiasing algorithms between steam and dcs that will make some things edges shimmer or not for example. Neither is perfect but just tune your system to get the number of pixels your system can handle and go fly.

[@Jabbers]

It's likely cause 1.4 PD is to large a resolution and the anti aliasing that occurs from down sampling isn't as good, try 1.1 or 1.2 and see if it feels more the same

[@Robert-nz2qw]

Absolutely spot on. Good on you for doing this, because this is completely - as you say - a myth, based on not understanding how PC's work

[@xm10922]

Thank you Jabbers!

[@Blejz-m5j]

Thanks Jabbers!

[@timme9206]

Hey Jabbers. Thanks for your Video.

[@jacksaloman9513]

No matter what, DCS is still shit in VR compared to IL2

[@SteveSurgenor]

Nice work, learned alot in 25 minutes ! Have VR running pretty smooth at the minute, there are quirks like having to start DCS then force ASW disabled then enable it or it doesn't work, that's been the case for years now though, still have a Rift CV1. Just hope 2.7 doesn't do bad things !

[@jimmehjiimmeehh9748]

Still doesn't make sense to me that the frame rates are the same when going by your explanation. DCS 0.5 pd would be the game having to specifically render only 800x720 pixels and then those pixels being copied and averaged in the following supersampling (which should be cheaper operations). Should also lead to lower ultimate image quality than 100 res 100 SS 140 eye res.

[@Jabbers]

That's not how it works. The resolutions are the same no matter which way you look at it if you match the PD exactly to the calculation of SS * 0.5pd

[@jimmehjiimmeehh9748]

@@Jabbers How is it not how it works? Supersampling is a post process done on a rendered frame.

[@Jabbers]

It's not being post processed is the point

[@jimmehjiimmeehh9748]

@@Jabbers ..? It is. It even says in the options menu where you're setting it. One of us is having a stroke right now.

[@bend1483]

@@jimmehjiimmeehh9748 neither the SteamVR base % setting or the per app setting are super sampling. They are just parts of the calculation dictating the size of the final rendered frame per eye. Setting the DCS render scale to 0.5 simply tells DCS to inform Steam VR “hey, I want you to render this at 0.5x of your normal resolution”, steam VR then takes that requested frame size and then multiplies it by the base % and per app % setting to arrive at a final resolution it’s going to render at, *only then* is the frame rendered. None of the steam VR settings are happening after the frame has been rendered. The reason it’s called super sampling is because that’s what’s happened when the final rendered frame is down scaled to be sent the headset.

[@scar3sl]

Thanks.

[@stereoyogurt]

Super!

[@tronic_gamingvr8216]

That was rocket science for me,but THX anyway.

[@Dg-zj6jo]

you cant get out more than you can put in springs to mind

[@Jabbers]

Ya everyone looking for that magic

[@Mako-sz4qr]

Wow I needed this so much thank you !

[@Barney-ic3uy]

Top top video! VR is hard work to get right. This will help a lot. Thanks!!

[@bjsracer]

I learnt Excel.

[@alabamayankee7217]

I don't care what the numbers appear to say, my eyes tell me different. I'm an engineer and usually my response is 'show me the numbers', but numbers based on assumptions that none of us know the exact underpinnings of can be a precise way to get the wrong answer. This video makes the implicit assumption that the PD in DCS and SteamVR do the same thing, in the same places, at the same time, using the same algorithm. Change any of these factors, and essentially the benefits of one slider over another are *different*. ***The settings don't result in magic; they result in different***. And in my judgement, for my computer, for my Valve Index, smoother and more fluid while keeping my gauges readable. Whether that is achieved via FPS or just the way the frames render I don't know and frankly I don't care. That's never been achievable before 'tho I have tried many times. My PD is set at .6 and Steam at 500%. And I am loving it. Isn't it about what your eyes see? To me, it's ALL about what my eyes see.

[@Jabbers]

There is no assumption that steamvr and dcs do the same thing, it's actually fact. You've made up you mind and that's fine, if it works for you I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. By all means enjoy the game at the resolution you have it at.

[@ConvexRook]

putting in werk!

[@chrisbishop6928]

"I built this calculator. I'm a nerd" *claps*

[@Jabbers]

*bows*

[@bobsaggat]

If only they would optimize their game engine instead of producing more planes

[@afflicproductions3136]

Yeah I just use 1.0 PD and move the resolution in my valve index up depending on what situation/map I am in

[@Scoobydcs]

I havnt seen either video yet but iv heard of the 0.5 pd settifs andwill testrhem myself. However i urge you not to write off placebo, if it feels good to the end user then id argue thats more important than the raw numbers. Its all about feel ingame and numbers help with that

[@Jabbers]

Isn't that exactly what placebo is?

[@Scoobydcs]

@@Jabbers yes, thats my point, numbers arnt everything

[@MrPhantom453]

If its too good to be true, it probably isn't.

[@krostouin]

probably.

[@PaddyPatrone]

VR optimization in DCS is just one big mess. I wonder if they will ever be able to implement this in a way where it actually works without melting my computer. IL2 works great in VR.

[@L3v3LLIP]

il2 also looks shits in my opinion.

[@PaddyPatrone]

@@L3v3LLIP Still much better VR Performance

[@Eddy3443]

only way is to get a better PC. DCS is super smooth on a 3080 / 5800x 32 gb ram

[@neilrosson3913]

I 've seen similar myths going for as long as VR has been available & I'm sure it will crop up again.

[@Jabbers]

Ya I remember this being a thing for elite dangerous a few years ago

[@ThomasBarrios]

Who wants to join DCS University? I feel like I need go back to school, just to get any FPS i can get :D