Dead Renault Zoe with "DANGER Electric Failure/Motor Failure" messages on the dash

[@GoGreenAutos]

I didn't explain the reason for the issues on this video. The problem when I film bits between doing the actual job, chatting to the customer etc, I end up with snippets which I have to try to edit together to make something that viewable. Anyway, in this case when I got there the battery voltage was around 11.5V and that would normally be fine to start it and it should have worked. A vehicle will typically be ok with the battery at above 10V. But obviously this battery had previously dropped well below that level and enough to create all the low voltage triggers in the ECUs. This Zoe was being used for a lot of short trips and obviously the car wasn't being driven for long enough to properly charge the battery. This is a common issue with vehicles that do low mileage and lot of short trips. I've advised the customer to leave the vehicle running (i.e. in Ready mode) when she's parked up waiting for her kids, so that the 12V gets a longer charge. That should solve the situation going forward. If not, then they'll need to start using a mains battery charger/maintainer. If you've found this video particularly useful or maybe this saved you money or time, then please do at least click the like button and add a comment. If you'd like to give a 'super thanks', you can buy me a coffee, a pint or contribute to the running costs of this channel via the Thanks button above. KZbin shares 70% of the donations with the video creators.

[@garybibby2698]

What would be a short trip for the Zoë, ie too short to top up the 12v? is it possible to find the parameters out for if/when it charges the battery

[@rob_lightbody]

Is it a quality AGM 12v battery that you use? And does it need setup/coded to the car? Good video.

[@GoGreenAutos]

@@rob_lightbody Not AGM, just standard led acid battery. No coding required.

[@mondotv4216]

@@GoGreenAutosDoes seem like bad software implementation. Unlike an ICE car the vehicle shouldn't have to be "ON" to charge the battery. Only the DC to DC coverter needs to be switched on in the background to charge the low voltage system. Appreciate that it's a Zoe and obviously an early one but I'm not giving renault/Nissan a pass because you'd think they'd have figured out the low voltage charging by the time the Zoe was launched. It seems most EV manufacturers are having problems with this - I know Hyundai/Kia experienced similar issues with the Ioniq 5 and EV6.

[@mickwolf1077]

You'd think they'd be smart enough when designing the system that the 12v battery would be charged/maintained when charging the HV pack, what a stupid design.

[@daveamies5031]

This is awesome customer service 👍, going out on a Sunday to help someone who bought a car from you over 4 years ago, is way above and beyond what you'd normally get in any country, i hope your customers are loyal and appreciate this level of service 🤞

[@MSCURR-m2o]

That’s how to look after customers, well done. You’re definitely the company to buy a car from l’m sure there aren’t many companies would go to these lengths. Every success for the future.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Thanks

[@bathfun]

What great customer service.. you are a star

[@GoGreenAutos]

Thank you :-)

[@rangleri]

Amazing work! Sharing this will help so many people. Those "Danger, failure etc." warnings are maybe a bit too dramatic on the Zoes.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes, "Danger Electric Fault" is the translation for "get your credit card out as the Renault dealer is about to abuse it"

[@jamessmyth5949]

​@@GoGreenAutos Those warnings like "Danger Electrical Fault" should be displayed at the time someone is thinking of buying a Renault. Anything with the diamond logo affixed to it is a case of, don't look for trouble because it'll find you.

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

Nice one Mat, you saved them a ton of money!. The whole 12v battery thing is a strange one with EVs and I found it interesting that you say the Zoe will start from 11v or just below that even. Our e-NIro is 4 years old now and the 12v battery failed last year. The car just will not tolerate anything below 12v, it simply will not start.. and for a few weeks we kept it going with one of those LiON booster batteries...As soon as 12V is available you can hear the relays clicking over which I guess means you can then access the traction battery. The original battery on e-Niro and Hyundai Ioniq was only 45Ah and my friend here in France with the Ioniq had the same problem with his car. I replaced the battery with a Bosch 52Ah which I hope will last a bit longer..We are a one car household and the e-Niro is on 78,000 km . For anyone interested, here I am on the EV battery learning curve kzbin.info/www/bejne/g36coqBreZyXbbs

[@GoGreenAutos]

Just watched your video. You'll find my next video useful too. Again on 12V batteries. PS. I hope you did your battery terminals up tight, as they shouldn't swivel like for a good connection.

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

@@GoGreenAutos Thanks for the tip, you had me out there checking that everything was good on the battery connection. At some point in the future EVs will do away with the 12v lead acid, Tesla have already announced that they will be switching to a 48v system which of course has other benefits. OEMs will have the buying power to tell suppliers that they must switch and so a weak link in the EV chain will be eliminated eventually. Thanks for these videos, I have learned so much from them about how EVs work and also gained some confidence that an EV is a good long term prospect.

[@KevCon]

What an absolute gem you are. Just went to move my Zoe and got the full drama of electrical fault, danger, car acting weird, what I thought was fans… I was waiting for it to burst into flames! Then I found your vid, checks the 12v and it is at 11.25 - so it’s now on my rapid charger for a few hours. My journeys are all, at most 2x 25minute commutes and right now that’s in the dark with the lights and air con on. Hopefully a new battery will fix it but for now, it’s a charge to pep it up enough for the morning. Thanks so much!

[@ncwy]

Had same issue today; scary warning messages on dashboard, my battery was 4 years old; Googled these messages, came across your video and didn't bother trying to arrange breakdown recovery, just ordered mobile replacement battery service with RAC (£180!, prob could done it myself and saved a lot, after watching one of your other videos!, but i was stranded so not really poss to go get my own battery and install myself) Mechanic said the voltage was just 9.5 volts.After new battery installed, car is absolutely fine now! Its a pity Zoe couldn't have just displayed warning message that 12V battery needs attn or replacement rather than scaring the life out of u 🤣

[@michaelgoode9555]

Excellent video. We bought a 2 year old ID.3 and within a couple of days the car was showing all kinds of errors, drinking range and flagging a 12v issue. The 12v battery had according to VW only been replaced in July 2022. Anyway, the 12v battery was duff and exchanged on warranty. All problems miraculously disappeared. Apparently the ID.3 had a 12v battery replacement with a workshop software update to v2.4. Clearly VW knew that they had 12v battery issues. I have seen also that there have been 12v battery issues with the Ioniq5. It beggars belief that manufacturers are somehow getting this basic thing so badly wrong.

[@GoGreenAutos]

The problem with modern cars is that there is so much equipment on them, there is nearly a constant drain on the 12V battery. Cars with apps and telematics keep draining the 12V battery when the car has shutdown and its leaving drivers with flat batteries and also reducing the life of the 12V too as lead-acid batteries often will not recover well if let drained flat. The issue with a lot of vehicles (such as the Ioniq5) is that their software to control the 12V charging isn't right and while they have upgraded the code, it doesn't get rolled out to all the vehicles. This is why we haven't installed the phone app for our Ioniq 38kWh. The 12V is fine because of this. If you enable the app function in the car, the problems begin. Telsa are the only ones who have got this right. Firstly, the software is always updated over the air. Secondly, the HV battery isn't shutdown when the car is locked. The downside is though, your HV battery keeps draining when the car is parked.

[@insanityideas]

​@@GoGreenAutosIt's more accurate to say that the Tesla vehicles decide when the HV battery is required. This may result in the HV battery being active when the car is locked. But in general if the car is locked then the HV battery is off within a few minutes. What this means is the vehicle can switch on the HV battery to charge the 12volt or perform other functions (cabin climate control) without user intervention even if the vehicle has been parked for a long period of time. This is counter to some other manufacturers implementations which respect the fact the ignition is off and like ICE cars do not charge the 12volt unless the ignition is on, and do not connect the HV battery unless the ignition is on or the vehicle is charging. Basically a Tesla is always "on" but it may be sleeping, which is not the same as "off". It is this sleep function that other manufacturers (and Tesla in the early days) implement poorly. *A Tesla with sentry mode on will have the HV battery on whilst locked because the car consumes about 200w in this mode which requires the DCDC converter to be on. This can be one way of giving your 12volt battery a charge. But in general leaving it plugged in when parked at home will give the car ample opportunity to charge the 12volt whenever needed.

[@MrWobling]

Amazing customer service. I wish I'd bought my car from you now - the MG Dealer has been awful to deal with.

[@GoGreenAutos]

They all are. They're business model is to extract money from you.

[@dougowt]

I used to get this warning and other rather dramatic messages on the last Zoe I had. It turned out to be one of the 10mm nuts under the red cover on the 12v battery had just come loose. Not the battery clamp, but one of the other connections. Easy to access and fix.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Interesting. Easily missed. I will start checking that too.

[@robertblood3722]

All very interesting as my wife’s Zoe gets the same thing’s coming up sometimes. Her car is about the same age, gone are the days you need a toolbox with spanner’s. Bob in Kent England. Thanks again for this KZbin and expressed with the support you give to your customers.

[@terryrigden4860]

What great customer service, you will be on my list when I decide to go electric. I had a similar problem on my Yaris hybrid after a lot of short trips

[@NotoriousPyro]

Wow 4 years ago and you still helped. Remind me to come to you next time! I had similar on my Seat Leon mild-hybrid, opened it with the key, tried to start it and then the car went bonkers, all the electrics switching on and off and alarms going... Replacing the battery fixed it. Could see a bulge in the battery wall and we'd just had winter so the battery had frozen over.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Just looked it up. 12V batteries freeze at around -60 degC ! I've seen bulging when they are getting over charged.

[@FloatingIdeasonanarrowboat]

@@GoGreenAutos Not when flat. The electrolyte thins down to almost just water when discharged. It's another reason to keep them fully charged in winter. Trust me, I drove a G-whiz for six years. ​

[@BayLuke96]

Good fix. I wonder if the interior of the owner's home is as dirty as their car though. That driver's side mat is an accident waiting to happen.

[@GoGreenAutos]

No it wasn't, cos I had a cup of coffee afterwards. But many people don't have the same emotional connection with their car and treat it just as a machine...maybe like their lawnmower in the shed!

[@johnross1008]

Highly informative video. Has helped ease our worries and will ask garage to conduct suggested diagnostics at service later this month (oh, and take it on a few longer journeys!). Cheers

[@garybibby2698]

These 22kwh Zoës with the newest BMS update are great. My dad gets 112 miles out of his even at this time of year! Love the dramatic error message it throws up!

[@GoGreenAutos]

That's good driving economy.

[@garyheavens2389]

Great information, and excellent customer service, you come across as a very decent chap, even if you charged the lady for your time and battery it was good of you to make the effort to go and help them. Especially as you sold the car three years previously. Excellent stuff.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Actually sold them the car 4.5 years ago. Yes I did charge a small fee (£100). But this and the cost of the new battery would have been still cheaper than their recovery truck alone, that was booked for the next day. Then Renault were charging £250 diagnostic fee before they even started. So overall that alternative would have cost them over £650, even if they only just changed the 12V battery!

[@benjones4365]

​@@GoGreenAutos I sill think this was excellent service, speaking personally, most of us do not object to paying reasonable charges, we just feel that to often the main dealers are trying to rip us off way to often. If anything I would say your charges were a tad to releasable. But who am I to say.

[@GoGreenAutos]

@@benjones4365 Thanks. Yes main dealers and the motor trade generally have evolved to maximum exploitation.

[@johnkeepin7527]

Interesting presentation. The 12V battery looks like quite a large one, compared with the relatively small one used by Toyota under the back seat in my Yaris. Anyway, the issue to do with the 12V one being low voltage reminds me of an old fault that I had in the past on a car (along with thousands of others, for the same reason). It was an old Honda Civic diesel engined one with a chunky 70Ah battery, and could flatten it overnight. The fault was a software error in a product from Bosch, which could get into a mode where it wouldn’t shut down, and just grabbed hold of the CAN bus. No obvious fault indication - until the battery was flat. It was repaired by way of a firmware upgrade from Bosch, via the Honda dealer. I learnt a bit more about it from a nearby neighbour who worked at the Honda factory - hence my knowledge of the cause etc. It was all done under warranty then. In either EVs or any other type of car that uses the CAN bus system, the possibility of faults in various sub systems that can run down a battery exists. I don’t know if Renault actually uses contact relays to isolate the traction motor when the power is switched off, but Toyota do that, and it’s always possible to hear them “drop out” when switching off, which is kind of reassuring that at least the main (traction) battery is disconnected when it’s out of use.

[@HowardLeVert]

As someone who is thinking of buying a ZOE, I found this fascinating and very useful. I too have discovered how many faults a low battery can cause on a conventional ICE car: but I was half expecting you to discover the fault was actually with the DC-DC converter from the traction battery to the 12V battery so a merely poor battery was a 'win', I'd say. Oh, and excellent customer service too.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes, many here are saying "this is why I wont touch an EV", but a poor 12V battery causing havoc is not an EV thing, it's a modern car thing. Modern cars of all types are full of ECUs, telematics, software etc which require a good 12V battery and put extra drain on the battery when the car is turned off. So such issues effect all modern vehicles.

[@Damicske]

I followed a few years of car mechanics in evening school and the first thing they learn in school on modern cars is: plug the computer in to see the current and history faults of the car, because if you change something that can generate new error's, in this case could be the 12V error's (low 12V or shorted) (you changed the battery and didn't know if that already was a fault). So read codes, clear all codes > then change a thing (in this case the 12V battery) > re-read codes > drive around.

[@acerreteq703]

I find it very interesting that YT recommended me your video. I only commented once a few days earlier that i own a Zoe for one year and am quite happy with it. Thanks to your video I´m now aware of this matter. Although i´m driving approx 300km a week and charging the car once a week.

[@GoGreenAutos]

This is a 4 month old video and all of a sudden its had a thousands of views in the last week and become the most viewed video during the last month. Its strange that KZbin has suddenly been recommending this on people's feeds over the last few days.

[@acerreteq703]

@@GoGreenAutos I assume YT has new algorithms recommending videos not only based on "likes" and "views" but on the content of the comments of the viewers. Thx to ChatGPT or Bard.

[@pawez.5472]

Hallo you are my Hero , I had the same problem whit Renault ZOE today -your Movie helped me whit my ZOE , I have changed battery and everything is worrking correct .Thank you. Kindly Regards Paul from Poland👊💪🤝

[@GoGreenAutos]

Glad it helped

[@AndyC2_]

Simple comment from me Matt, you’re a bloody decent guy 👍🏼

[@GoGreenAutos]

Thank you. Some say just "bloody simple".

[@Exxodus74]

Like these service calls, would love to see more

[@GoGreenAutos]

Ok, will try too. But fortunately its something I don't do that often.

[@RichieRouge206]

Wow what a mess the interior is… dread to think what her house is like. Good fix

[@BoxFlyHaydn]

Yeah I was pretty disgusted by it. Who treats things like that...

[@hh0207]

Its just a car. It gets dirty after one day of usage, Why evne bother cleaning it. Their are more interesting things to do 😊

[@williamarmstrong7199]

I have had many issues like this on the fossil cars (One yesterday) we use as fleet taxis. As a matter of course on all cars over 5 years old I find adding new earth leads to the batery, chassis and engine solves 90% of data / canbus errors. Last one had simalar errors in almost every ECU in the car. And the engine turned over fine.. the problem was battery to Chasis earth. Two new cables £15 in total and job fixed.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Interesting.

[@rimgaudastamulevicius8614]

I got similar issue with ioniq 28 kw like 2 weeks ago"Check electric vehicle system". But I was way less lucky because I was towed to hyundai dealer in Germany and they told that I need to replace the motor and it would cost 5000 euros. I organized the car to be delivered back to Netherlands and gave the charged 12v battery to the driver. After the driver installed the 12 volt battery car worked as normal.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Sadly, I've heard a similar story to this quite a few times now.

[@rimgaudastamulevicius8614]

​@@GoGreenAutos After I got back the car and connected autel ap200 car showed 5 errors in the history: 4 low voltage in description and MCU P0A42 : "Drive Motor 'A' Position Sensor Circuit Hight". My guess last one it was also because of low voltage.

[@rimgaudastamulevicius8614]

@@GoGreenAutos also I noticet in your ioniq 28 you still have original 12 volt battery. When are think it should be replaced?

[@GoGreenAutos]

@@rimgaudastamulevicius8614 We swapped vehicles back in November, but yes our 28kWh Ioniq still had the original battery. Probably the reason why it lasted so well is that I put a maintenance charger on the vehicles when they're not used and look after the 12V batteries. It also never got drained (while in our ownership).

[@quanchyplimp]

Interesting stuff. Amazing what grief a low battery can cause. Same with a PC, when the BIOS battery is failing, you can be forgiven for thinking something is truly knackered!

[@Hogladdy]

I bought a device, from Amazon, that you plug in the cigar lighter and it shows the state of your 12 volt battery and if it is charging. It isn't hi tech and only shows the voltage it also has two usbs for charging. It is just handy to have a visual indication.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes those things are very handy. What isn't ideal on the Zoe though is the 12V charging starts as soon as the vehicle is unlocked and the door is opened, so you can't see the base 12V battery voltage first. On other EVs, the 12V battery charging doesn't start until you start the car.

[@julesviolin]

Battery quality ain't what it used to be even top brands. Plates are thinner and mesh like instead of solid lead. Batteries need to be made like they were in the old days especially when electronics modules need stable supplies. All modern cars should come with a solar panel built into to the roof, which would at least compensate for these crazy bad Batteries ⚠️

[@vilvicuk]

We have a Zoe that barely gets driven. We regularly get two faults with the 12v battery being low. It seems the 12v battery only gets charged when the car is in use (which includes the doors being unlocked on the driveway). It doesn't appear to charge the 12v when the vehicle itself is being charged. My solution is to unlock the car and leave it for an hour. We did have an issue in February where the 12v went completely flat. When I charged the battery we got a "Electric motor failure" message. We called the RAC, they cleared the error message and all is fine. Ours is a 65 plate and it's only done 19000 miles. My takeaway is that Renault didn't test this vehicle properly. The car could quite early keep the 12v battery topped up, but it doesn't. The car could recover from a dead battery better, but it doesn't. I'm sure they've solved these issues in newer models.

[@GoGreenAutos]

The Zoe does charge the 12V battery when the HV battery is charging, but the issue is that the charge session can be too quick to get any decent charge into the 12V. The same situation too for cars that only do short/quick journies.

[@vilvicuk]

@@GoGreenAutosThank you, that's good to know

[@bertbroadley7056]

Had a Lexus RX400H. Great car except for the 12v battery that was too small. Had to change it twice in 35k miles. Second time it cause all sorts of bother with the hybrid system (I drove 3 miles from home, stopped the car and it would not restart, even with a jumper pack on it) but leaving it disconnected from the car and charging it overnight solved everything.

[@DigitalDiabloUK]

My i3 12v died and honestly the error warnings that came through were scary, like proper death throws. So dramatic for a relatively benign service item.

[@GregAnslow]

Changed my 2 year old 12v battery in my Ioniq just as a precaution as I didn't no its history. 50 quid for peace of mind and I carry a booster pack as well. My anxiety was rising looking at all those leaves under the bonnet.

[@kletops46]

Wow.... That's good customer service. Shame you're not in my area, I'd be looking at your cars for sale.

[@briangriffiths114]

Very interesting and informative video which I found more than useful. Also, great customer service.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Thanks Brian

[@stulop]

It seems the importance of a quality 12v battery in good condition gets lost in an Ev as we always focus on 'THE BATTERY '.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Absolutely correct.

[@fallingwater]

Something I was never quite able to understand - why even HAVE a separate 12V battery? You don't have to run a starter on an EV, so you don't need a big fat amp source like a lead-acid boat-anchor. Run the ancillaries from a 12V converter off the traction battery and the AC compressor from traction voltage and you've removed a failure point. Maybe have a smaller 12V backup for emergencies. Why don't they do this?

[@GoGreenAutos]

You need a 12V battery to power the central locking, alarm, dash, ECUs etc. Then only when you've unlocked and switched on the vehicle, does the main high voltage battery get switched on. So the 12V battery is powering the contactors to enable the high voltage. Otherwise the HV battery would have to be live all the time and they've deemed that not to be the best way. So just like an ICE vehicle, its reliant on a 12V battery to start.

[@Robert-yb3gm]

Another very informative video , could you do one on the i3 12v battery as I’m sure it’s more complicated to change because of position

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes, they are awkward. I did change one once when we drove two i3's ourselves. I will make a video whenever I get an i3 in again.

[@Robert-yb3gm]

Cheers for that I will look forward to watching same. Great vids btw

[@tasercs]

The dashboard warning should have read: "DANGER Car Filthy Dirty" :)

[@BritishEngineer]

Must be terrifying for some people to see that message. A malfunction concerning the BMS or battery itself is always a dangerous and potentially fatal consequence which some correlate it with that.

[@HubbHubbs]

Was the 12v battery charge controller working correctly? Seems a bit strange the batt dying if it wasnt that old. And why would the bms need an update? Surely its the cells themsleves that need balancing if they have become too far out of balance for the bms to deal with.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes charge controller is fine. Cars that do low mileage and short trips will suffer from 12V battery drain as the car is not running long enough for the 12V battery to properly charge. It does also charge when the HV battery is charging, but as this is a 22kWh Zoe, the charging sessions are quite short. So cars that get used like this can often drain the 12V quicker than it can charge up. The BMS software in the Zoe is known to be buggy and this is one of those cars that requires the update. The SoH will then be calculated properly and it should then be around 94% or so. Cell balancing happens on every charge after it gets to 100% SoC. The issue with this car is not related to that.

[@leifvejby8023]

It was way easier in the olde days, when you could replace the condenser and be on the road again in a couple of minutes. Or replace the high tension wires with some fence wire found in the ditch.

[@steveb1185]

I had a similar problem with my son's Leaf, I fitted a leisure battery as it better matches an EV a standard battery expects a starter motor amp drainage but never gets it on an EV so they sulfate quicker...he has had no problems in 4 years..

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes, leisure batteries are probably more suitable for an EV. The problem is that OEMs keeps costs down by picking from the same parts pool. However, if you look after your 12V battery and use a maintenance charger, they do still last a long time on EVs. Our Ioniq 12V battery is 6 years old and still very healthy, even though this a vehicle prone to 12V issues.

[@simonyapp]

Please get some new floor mats, nice out come.

[@paulwheeler1199]

I suggest that your getting all those low voltage errors because you disconnected the battery.

[@Cornz38]

Ha, Renault and electrical faults. Like salt and vinegar. A symbiotic relationship.

[@PJWey]

Ah how I loved my 1998 Renault Megane diesel where the throttle would jam if your mobile phone rang. Brilliant!

[@kapilair1770]

Like oil and vinegar. Renault is never responsible of the defaults

[@MMMM2MMMM2MMMM]

Not using the car will drain the 12v battery. To prevent this, just open de drivers door once a week, this will awaken the traction battery and this will charge the 12v battery.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes, the Zoe is one EV where the DC-DC converter wakes up when the door is opened. On nearly all other EVs, this just flattens the 12V battery even more!

[@MrKOenigma]

That crazy carpet position would drive me nuts, 😂😂❤❤

[@ConnorWalsh_briz]

Good stuff! I think I used EB 7kW chargers in Glastonbury, which took a pre-payment hold of £76 as a theoretical maximum for 22 kW charging!

[@GoGreenAutos]

Wow.

[@danpin3606]

I have not removed the engine yet, I don't have a bearing noise, the engine runs just fine, but from time to time it shows "engine default" followed be all kind of other lights and problems. And in worst case the car stops. You can change gears but nothing happens on the display, though mechanically you can still change the gears from D to P and pull the car to the side. But you cannot drive anymore and this error comes up every 50 meters sometimes which is dangerous as hell. So I got the cr to the repair shop, they first said it is the rotation sensor, they removed the engine or the gear box, checked the sensor but it was ok. Still I could not drive the car regularly. So I put it to a better repair shop, they run all possible updates and located the error and told me that they ca read with their software the so called "wear factor of the engine. At 1,2 the engine is worn, mine hat an even higher one of 1,4, so Renault says the engine is trash and want to sell me a new one for 5.500€.... I don't know what kind of sensor produces this factor, if it can be turned of, ignored or what exactly this is. Anybody out there with more experience maybe ?

[@mister_jon_jon]

This happened to me when my partner and I went on a long trip over a weekend, had driven about 400km and arrived at the destination, this warning signal came on. Called tow truck, in the meantime we tried disconnecting the 12v battery and left it off for a minute and the error disappeared and we could continue our weekend...

[@GoGreenAutos]

Strange that it did this after a long drive though, as the 12V battery would have obviously been fully charged during that drive. But yes, as you found, disconnecting the 12V battery for a while is a good way of "resetting" many vehicles.

[@mister_jon_jon]

Yes the workshop did an update on the car after that, they said the car was not giving enough charge to the 12v battery. Never happened after that again. And I drive long distances often.

[@michaelbruton3537]

Hi Matt Was you able to check whether the OBC was charging the 12v battery after the change ? If so that would confirm the old 12v battery was faulty and not just depleated

[@GoGreenAutos]

No I didn't check that. I should have done. However, this a low use Zoe that only does short trips around the city, so its very common with such vehicles that the 12V battery gets exhausted quicker than the car can charge it. The customer now knows to leave the car running where they can, which will keep the 12V charged for longer and I'm sure they'll not have any other issues.

[@michaelbruton3537]

Thank you Matt for your quick reply Does the Zoe give battery depleting warnings on the dash like the ioniqs do when you don't open the drivers door after switching off

[@SGFlicksify]

So, the battery wasn’t charging because? (Isn’t that the root of the problem?)

[@paulo.galvao]

In my Zoe when that baterie was flat it makes errors, it is a warning. I have replaced mine after less a week.

[@ВикторАлександрович-о6с]

Good afternoon Tell me, we bought a car and while driving home (570 km), this error occurred 3 times at the start and once while driving. What could it be? Thank you!

[@mateuszgluszak5241]

I had the same issue. Started Zoe in the morning and it showed electric errors on panel, started to buzz loudly, steering wheel was blocked, same as gear lever. It was a shock 🙂 My wife said "it's going to exlpode!"😂 I took the interface, read DTCs. All were related to low voltage and 12V battery. I measured voltage and it was 8,6V. I charged battery for few hours until voltage was ~12,8V, reset DTCs. Then closed door and left Zoe. It was still buzzing so I thought I did not solve issue. But itsl stopped buzzing after few minutes and everything was fine then. Did Renault bosses really have to hire an atomic plant enigneer to design alarms? 😂

[@au18ert]

It would be interesting to know when that battery was last replaced?? I remember watching one of your older videos on replacing the battery and upgrading it which was really easy and cost half the price Renault would charge. I even bought the farewell tester. If I remember correctly shouldn't the battery be swapped out at 60% state of health? All these little reference facts would be really useful as I'd imagine most are just becoming second town cars now.. The worst thing about it is having to take it to a Renault dealer as they hit you hard. I've had both the front springs go on a car with less than 30k on it. The early Zoe's were made from the Clio parts bin and just not up to the job..

[@GoGreenAutos]

A 12V battery is fine below 60% SoH, but of course it depends on how the car is used and how long it is left parked up and how long it is driven. In this case, the Zoe was being used for a lot of short trips and obviously the car wasn't being used for long enough to properly charge the battery. However, when I got there the battery voltage was around 11.5V and that would normally be fine to start it and it should have worked, but obviously previously it was well below that level and enough to create all the low voltage triggers in the ECUs.

[@au18ert]

@@GoGreenAutos so how is the 12v battery charged? Sounds like a simple question but the Renault techs wouldn't or were willing to tell me. I put an external lead on mine that I've been periodically charging and the drive battery gets charged to 100% once a week but isn't held there for more than a couple hours. Is it worth externally charging the 12v or is the weekly full charge enough to sustain the 12v health?

[@GoGreenAutos]

@@au18ert The 12V battery is charged when the vehicle is running. The onboard DC-DC converter sends 14.5V to the battery while the vehicle wakes up (i.e. unlocked or door opened), running and when charging. Yes, using a maintenance charger has huge benefits. I will make a video about this shortly.

[@Sarapatka3]

It is prescribed to replace the 12v battery every 3 years. I also neglected it and after 6 years the end.

[@RoteLars]

Some tips to come with to avoid sparks then reconnecting 12V battery? (On ZE50 was is like a welder)

[@GoGreenAutos]

If the vehicle is switch off and in sleep mode, there's should be no load and only minor sparking.

[@jalex6903]

I wanted to take an electric car in 2021 but my council did not agree to install a charging point at my house from Hyundai so I take petrol one and I don't take any electric in the future before 2030.

[@karimbenallal4454]

On the Hyundai Ioniq Electric it has the auto charge for the 12volt battery. I'm assuming it's to prevent this from happening

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes, it helps, but doesn't stop the battery draining. On the 28kWh model battery drain isn't generally a problem. But on the 38kWh model, it is, even with this feature enabled. Many are experiencing sudden 12V battery drain. I've made videos on the channel about this.

[@superlestat]

My Zoe failing too. Same errors on display, electric failure, motor failure, etc... Tomorrow it goes to Renault, but all points to a very expensive repair due they don't have true experts in this vehicle and techology, only people who changes parts. Should be a law to protect customers from buying expensive things with no appropiate repairs and expertise in mechanics in charge to do the repairs. Years of research, very expensive car for customers who risk supporting new techologies, but all ruined because somewhere somebody decided to save some money and give a poor service. Renault one time but no more.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Its probably too late now, but ideally you should take your Zoe to a HEVRA garage (see hevra.org.uk/garages.html) rather than the main dealers. More chance of a repair rather than replacing parts.

[@superlestat]

I appreciate that, but unfortunatelly i am outside UK. Thankyou anyways@@GoGreenAutos

[@pritambissonauth2181]

I suspect its "Lead Acid Battery gate". Even in my ICE cars these batteries do cause mystery issues. It seems you just need to change the battery as soon as they are out of warranty!

[@GoGreenAutos]

Its more than that. Low mileage vehicles such as this, that drive very short distances, don't get long enough to recharge their 12V battery over the short driving sessions. Consequently, the 12V slowly depletes and leaves the driver with these issues.

[@davidsworld5837]

Good job it was not the Macmaster doing a video on it the end of the world. video it seems start with the battery as 1st step just that many people will not be able to clear the error messages off. could we have follow up to cost to fix anything or how long it takes to get that battery replaced etc

[@ColinWatters]

How many people spill drinks on the diagnostic port?

[@petewright4640]

Hi Green Autos. I don't think your explanation as to why the problem arose is adequate. The 12v battery in an ICE engine has to start an engine which takes a big chunk of charge out of it. It takes time for the battery to recharge hence problems can arise with vehicles that only do short journeys. This is not the case with EV's as little charge is normally taken without the ignition being on which immediately takes battery to charging voltage. One explanation is that the owner left the lights on or similar and ran the battery down too low. It maybe that the battery is really knackered. I have a Renault Kangoo ZE 2016. Three times now i have come to use it and found the battery flat, to the point that the vehicle systems are malfunctioning. The immediate solution was to swap or jump the battery. I have never found the cause. I've not left anything on or the key in the ignition and the 12v battery is in good condition. So it's a mystery. Any thoughts?

[@GoGreenAutos]

Its probably the telematics and the phone app. It keeps draining the battery when the vehicle is switched off.

[@CampGareth]

This makes me wonder why more EVs don't do as the Leaf did and put a little solar panel somewhere to charge the 12v battery.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Primarily cost. And the fact that it doesn't really help much. The solar panel really needs to be much larger. Those Leafs that do have the panel still get flat 12V batteries. But you're right, it will mitigate some of the issues.

[@richarddoremus1169]

I’m due for a battery change in January after two years. Is the Renault replacement battery reliable or should I buy a better one? Thanks

[@GoGreenAutos]

They're all pretty much the same as in quality. But the Renault one is at least twice the price of others. See kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmbRpaiJlK6fgNU

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

State of the inside of that car!

[@robertpopek6063]

Fantastic customer support! You're more than a dealer! Regarding the repair, I supose that using a booster wold have solved the problem temporarily ?

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes normally a booster/jump pack would solve it and get the car started at least. And in this example, the car should have started with the battery at 11.5V. It should be ok until about 10-10.5V. However, because the battery had previously got critically low and all the ECUs had triggered the errors, it wasn't happy. And in this case, jumping it would have started it, but the errors would need clearing.

[@tyronenelson9124]

If the 12v battery went low in my mini cooper s the ECU would still be able to function correctly right down to 9 volts, and even then it won't throw any false codes up because it somehow knows it's down to the battery being low, that's quite clever really and that car is nearly 20 years old!

[@ВасяПупкин-т5з3г]

Good afternoon Tell me, sometimes this error appears: DF030(0841F3) Rotor position sensor circuit. It's warmer now and she appears even more often. What could it be? Thank you!

[@GoGreenAutos]

I don't know.

[@justmeEnglandUK]

Do the customer own the main battery Even with a transfer of ownership and no contract has been agreed . I was looking a buying a insurance write off crash damage Zoe as a donor for a project . Do they have the ability to shut the vehicle down without a battery lease agreement in place

[@GoGreenAutos]

No, the customer does not own the battery. However, if the vehicle is an insurance write off, often the pack is removed. If it is still in place, it would most likely be owned as the insurance has paid out on it and settled the finance agreement on the pack. Either way, you need to be sure of the status before buying. Yes they can disable the pack if the lease agreement is not in place or not paid for. I've seen the portal a Renault dealer can use. However, we tested it at the time on my own Zoe and it didn't work. I don't think this is something they use in practice and instead let it slide out of the system.

[@SteveMacSticky]

Which Park was it stuck in? Hyde Park?

[@jankempynck3745]

Officially at Renault they replace the 12V battery every 3 years, which apparently didn't happen here.

[@fje1948]

Very useful video. Many Thanks!

[@GoGreenAutos]

You are welcome

[@MikeSmith-sh3ko]

Are you sure that the 12v battery is being charged when car is plugged in because that would have to have its own charge circuit when car is running and being charged by an outlet?

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes the 12V battery does get charged when the vehicle is charging, but not by the mains. It is charged the same way it gets charged when the vehicle is running - by the HV battery through the DC-DC converter.

[@DilipDas]

What a state she's let her car get into. Shame she didn't look after Zoe after she bought it from you.

[@kjelllindberg6987]

SoH at 65% after less then 50 000km???? Our ZE40 2019 has done 150 000 km and still has an SoH of 92%. Maybe time for an upgrade to the 40kWh battery.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Its not really at 65% SoH - its because it needs a BMS update. The original software was buggy and not calculating it properly.

[@kapilair1770]

According to you does a problem of brake could be the reason of a problem of the battery ?

[@GoGreenAutos]

No, not related.

[@kapilair1770]

@@GoGreenAutos what do you mean ? You have a reference starting with a letter A, B , C , D and I think that a problem with the brake or ABS would starts by the letter C no ?

[@arthurdent2900]

Happened on my Lexus EV. Lexus assist (aka AA!) said they get called out to the problem many times. If I'm not using the vehicle for a week I now just charge the 12v before hand. No warning jusr Ok one day and dead the next. The battery is only 35 an, no wonder the alarm flattend it.

[@GoGreenAutos]

You might find the next video useful then too. Out Sunday morning.

[@jfv65]

I have had to do something very similar to a Toyota Auris hybrid. It has a 20Ah battery to power all car body controls and is needed for booting up the driveline. No.12V? No driving car! Led-acid 12V car batteries typically last about 5years on averidge. They really should be seen as a wear item in my opinion.

[@marktodd7692]

im sure i read on a Toyota forum a while ago that there was a software update bulletin issue with the Auris and the Canbus system.might be worthwhile talking to youre local dealer.

[@moussabouaziz5237]

UPC is in French Unité de Protection et Commutation.

[@kapilair1770]

4:00 is the board which can establish DTC Data trouble codes?

[@GoGreenAutos]

I don't understand what you're asking??

[@kapilair1770]

@@GoGreenAutos the tool you are using at 4:00 can scales all kind of codes trouble ?

[@Користувач-э2э]

Tell me if something in the car can drain a 12V battery if left for several days, in my case it drained twice to 6-7 volts. Thank you

[@GoGreenAutos]

If the 12V battery is sound and properly charged, it should take about 4-6 weeks for it to drop to 6-7 volts, when a Zoe is sat unused. However, as with this car, if the 12V isn't getting properly charged during its typically driving (i.e. low mileage short trips), then it wont last very long at all. So if you're not driving the car for long enough to properly charge the 12V, it just gets worse and worse over time as unlocking and starting the vehicle is draining more than it gets charged back up. Or if the battery has been left to go flat, they often don't recover very well and needs replacing anyway.

[@Користувач-э2э]

@@GoGreenAutos thanks!

[@Tom192Hartley]

Brill video, did you advise them to keep and eye on all the leaves collecting, that's another Zoe weak spot.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Do you mean this kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3fLm2Skjpdgi8U ?

[@danpin3606]

Hello can you recommend me a diagnostic tool which is able to read my Zoes faults ? in the video you are using the AUTEL MAXICHECK, what model exactly? is any extra software needed for the Zoe? I got the Zoe 20 and the Zoe 40

[@GoGreenAutos]

I'm using a Autel MaxiCheck MX808TS. This is an obsolete model as its 4 years old now. But no additional software required. It does all makes and models. Then you pay for updates after an initial 1 or 2 year period, if you want them. But cheaper tools are available. iCarsoft are cheap and chearful.

[@danpin3606]

i feat that cheap product will not be able to access the Zoe to erase the errors? can you recommend some good cheat models? @@GoGreenAutos

[@danpin3606]

@@GoGreenAutos Can you recommend to me advice for maximum hundred or €200 which will hundred percent work with my Zoe type two with 40 kW battery

[@GoGreenAutos]

@@danpin3606 You'll have to ask existing owners in the forums or Facebook groups.

[@md2320]

What was the 12v battery testing tool you used???

[@GoGreenAutos]

Foxwell BT100 12V battery analyser. They're great. See amzn.to/3Uowipa

[@jerrym1401]

Hi Mat, Can you drop a link for that scanner for faults. Thanks

[@GoGreenAutos]

Now discontinued, but this looks to be the nearest equivalent. www.impactdiagnostics.store/autel-range/autel-ds808bt-with-2-years-updates-and-uk-warranty

[@simonjohansson3900]

what I really don't understand about electric cars. why do they have a 12 volt battery? They can only have a dcdc converter instead. if you look at e.g. electric forklift they only have dcdc for lights and monitoring etc.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Because you need an external power source to unlock the car and turn on the HV battery/contactors when the HV battery is shutdown. Otherwise the HV battery will have to be live (i.e. contactors closed) call the time and that is deemed not a good idea for safety.

[@simonjohansson3900]

@@GoGreenAutos this is exactly what i don't understand how do you mean that a 12 volt lead acid battery is safer than a dcdc converter? just have a safety switch in case you want to turn off the 12 volts as well.

[@willemajorwilliemajor476]

Hi there can you recommend anyone that can fix a 2016 Renault zoe. Won’t go above 20 mph and low voltage battery not charging battery light stays on

[@GoGreenAutos]

A local HEVRA garage (see hevra.org.uk/ev-garages-near-me/) or www.cleevelymobile.co.uk/ who come out to you.

[@philiponsolent7232]

Useful video, big red warnings are scary. Is it ok to use a trickle battery maintainer on an EV? I would have thought it would be the same as the main battery charging the 12v, but I wasn't sure.

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes absolutely fine and highly recommended by me. I must make a video on this subject. I would recommend though a low amperage maintainer charger, such as a 1A or 2A. These don't then clash with the onboard DC-DC converter when the vehicle wakes up with the charger still connected. I recommend these amzn.to/3mlnt2L. We have about 20 of them and they're excellent. I've seen issues on some vehicles where high amperage charges have been used while the battery terminals are still connected. My recommendation is if using anything higher than 4A, always disconnect the negative terminal first before putting it on charge.

[@philiponsolent7232]

Thanks for the reply, I always used an Accumate on my low use petrol car and it kept the battery in good condition. I will check the specs.

[@kapilair1770]

Which kind of information can we get with DTC ?

[@GoGreenAutos]

As with all cars, the diagnostic trouble codes, provide all the information in regards to faults.

[@kapilair1770]

@@GoGreenAutos so they can inform about all trouble of the car ?

[@tom53332]

Couldn't the battery errors have also been caused by someone taking out the 12V battery while the car was on?

[@GoGreenAutos]

In this case, that hadn't happened. Taking the battery out would certainly trigger some DTCs. The errors in this case was simply because the battery was draining quicker than the car could recharge it due to its short local driving.

[@patrickh7368]

Surprised the dash doesn’t flag up a failing 12volt battery..? My TV let’s me know when remote batteries need changing…🤔 is there a screen in dash menu that displays the 12v level..? Mine is a 68reg 28kw Ioniq… all impeccable so far … 😊

[@GoGreenAutos]

No & no...on the Zoe. Same in nearly all EVs too.

[@nigelbryant5932]

Just maintain the car, simple. Also buy a hoover😂

[@Trevor_Austin]

The take-away from this is that you must keep software engineers well away from things mechanical.

[@thelaserhive3368]

Would a BMS update really properly restore state of health up to 90%? Wouldn’t it need pack or at least cell replacement ?

[@GoGreenAutos]

Yes it does. The original BMS software was very buggy and its not reading the real SoH correctly.

[@wyx087]

Then shouldn’t the BMS software update be done during service visits as recall? Otherwise would be very unfair to those customers who hadn’t leased their battery.

[@GoGreenAutos]

@@wyx087 Renault have never treated it like that, even though it was buggy and even still buggy on later models. Many (if not most) Renault dealers don't like undertaking software updates and do their best to resist this sort of work. Many now charge £200-£250 for a BMS update. If they do it right, its a 40 minute job. I've sat there while its been done before and was in and out of the dealership within 45 mins. Customers with a leased pack will get the BMS updated paid for by the finance company, but only because that is the solution to "fix" a battery that has dropped below the guarantee level of 75% SoH.

[@wyx087]

@@GoGreenAutos Thanks for the explanation. It is sad to hear this kind of dealership attitude toward simple software/firmware fixes. Perhaps not so simple due to poor design decisions and/or bad Renault policy. Nissan Leaf 30 kWh had similar problem and similar firmware update were needed. This is done as a free recall. I know which brand I’d rather spend my money.