N252DL C-310R Poolville TX 14 Jan 2024

[@jaredh723]

I was flying 15 miles south when the pilot crashed and there was severe icing conditions. Wasn’t a good day to fly. RIP

[@RubenKelevra]

But I'm sure you was aware before hand that there's icing conditions.

[@jaredh723]

@@RubenKelevra was an airmet for icing so anyone who preflighted knew what they were getting into. Had the 22T on max when descending through about 6 thousand

[@badkneesone]

Wonder what his rush to go up in those conditions was and risk his kids too.

[@calg7955]

@@badkneesone probably get-there-itis or invincibility due to his profession and social status?

[@reed785M]

@@jaredh723sounds like you took a risk and relied heavily on anti ice measures that are not fool proof. Smart.

[@trunkmonkey9417]

Retired USAF, Crew Chief and flying crew member. (70s-90s) The worst thing of all, was how the loss of aircrew was on the spouse (and family). I cannot imagine the absolute grief of his wife/mother of the children. Just heart breaking all around. Thank you Juan, for bringing such concise and no BS analysis and presentation, time after time. To those not well versed in "all things aviation" or proper debrief, this is the template, right here.

[@BAD_CONSUMER]

The kids were 6 and 8. Makes me sick thinking about it.

[@billcallahan9303]

....and no banjo music. Takes "that other guy" a half hour to get to the point.

[@mattgirgenti3595]

An advisory I learned early and repeat often. "Most bad weather accidents are investigated a few hours later in good weather".

[@RockandRollWoman]

Exactly. I can live to evaluate whether it's worth being pissed off about a delay.

[@garyowen9044]

So sad, but so true.

[@merlerust1703]

Pilots dying in bad weather are often buried in sunshine

[@kevinhacken9801]

His brother said on local news that they got an SOS message and went and found the wreckage themselves. RIP and condolences to the the brother.

[@deew7014]

I can not even imagine how devasting that must have been , loss of a brother and 2 young children 😢😢

[@vasilivh]

@@BassBrigade2089 probably means an automated SOS, like from Apple Watch

[@toddsmith8608]

​@@vasilivhthis. I think they use the accelerometer in the watch/ phone to judge if there has been a car crash, gives you an alert on your device, then if you don't acknowledge it automatically calls/ notifies your emergency contact and/or 911, depending on how you have it set up. I recall seeing a commercial touting this feature. Basically turns your device into an epirb.

[@kevinhacken9801]

@@BassBrigade2089 it sounded like it was the automated crash detection from the phone. The apple SOS service.

[@vasilivh]

@@BassBrigade2089 because having an apple watch / iphone is the only thing that makes sense, he wasn't going to be calling or messaging anyone "SOS" while crashing, while his watch/phone would have done exactly that

[@dalemullins4562]

my brother once chartered a 310 with a young kid pilot from ohio to iowa...IMC....at night...iced up( sounded like someone was slapping the side of the nose when ice flung off) this kid was concentrating so hard on altitude he forgot to switch tanks so we got a momentary loss of breath. We probably came pretty close to dying that night. I'm glad i was to young ,maybe 15, to realize it at the time

[@AnonYmous-v1f6b]

Buddy holly territory almost ✌🏻

[@SquawkCode]

Ice hitting the nose is normal.

[@Gtownkayak]

I said hello to him on Friday about 5pm @ MWL where he and his two sons were getting fuel. I took off in N5667R at 5:09 and he departed for S TX a min behind me. Tragic….RIP Sir.

[@brandongentry66]

He was a great guy and two awesome kids. Sad

[@navion1946]

Did you get ice on your flight? Icing doesn’t appear to be the problem here to me.

[@kodykeeter943]

@@navion1946I believe Gtown was saying he saw them when they were first flying down south before the returning trip that ended in the crash. The day the crash took place i was ground at my location (50nm east in the bravo) due to icing conditions. That day was a poor day for any one to be up. Super cold and low ceilings covering much of Texas and other states.

[@Gtownkayak]

Yes, you are correct….I saw him and said hello when they were getting fuel at Mineral Wells on Friday, 1/12.

[@ericmcleod7825]

When I was working on my Commercial license my flight instructor asked me what was the minimum required equipment for known-icing conditions.... I started to list the components. He stopped me and said- a 737

[@JBoy340a]

You can get with lesser planes.

[@coasternut3091]

The point of known ice planes is to help you if you end up in it. You should never knowingly fly a piston plane into known ice

[@jaw065]

@@coasternut3091 I fly a single engine turbine and when it comes to ice I don’t play around. If any icing is forcasted it has to be light or I’m planning around it. Also have to have some reliable escape routes built in for me to fly into forcasted light ice areas. (Can I get on top? Underneath? Around? Below freezing level but maintaining terrain clearance? All questions we have to have an answer for before takeoff. (freezing rain is always a no go especially if close to freezing at surface)

[@markcoveryourassets]

This was the worst weather we've had in Texas since the Feb 2021 major winter storm. Not sure if he expected to get behind it or beat it to his N. Texas destination. Further downwind in Houston, we were expecting frozen precipitation and snow showers the next day. I didn’t even drive the car for those two very, very cold nights and days for Texas. It's all too frequent that we lose people flying out of hunting destinations due to some of the nasty weather conditions we get, even in mild winter temps.

[@coasternut3091]

@@jaw065 that's just good piloting

[@carlmontney7916]

RIP and condolences to his family and friends. When something like this happens you really realize what a delicate balance it is that keeps an aircraft in the air. Even the slightest amount of ice can bring the largest plane down quickly if it doesn't have de-icing capabilities.

[@jtjames79]

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect." -- Captain Alfred Gilmer 'Lamps' Lamplugh

[@RubenKelevra]

That's why you don't fly an airplane in icing conditions if it haven't got deicing capabilities. I think that this was intentionally.

[@chrisnoname2725]

But you know before you take off that you don't have de-icing capabilities. You also know the freezing level. Do you go fly an instrument approach without the instruments?

[@RubenKelevra]

@@chrisnoname2725 yeah I think this one was intentional.

[@MrRem7600]

"the slightest amount of ice can bring down an aircraft quickly" - not really. Not even close. Why do people say rubbish like this when they have no idea what they're talking about?

[@harrygaydosz73]

The best aviation page on YT, hands down.

[@AnonYmous-v1f6b]

I think dan is a close tie also ✌🏻

[@Aran2323]

Dan is a misogynist and a conspiracy theorist who defames people for youtube views ($1m defamation judgement against him last fall). @@AnonYmous-v1f6b

[@mattf49006]

@@AnonYmous-v1f6b not even close...my respect for Juan motivates me to leave it at that

[@chrisnoname2725]

​@@AnonYmous-v1f6bwho is Dan?

[@JeffreyBue_imtxsmoke]

Totally agree.

[@sharedsailing4787]

I was flying commercially in the area that day. There was freezing rain at the surface to the south and a huge temperature inversion. His plane was likely above the freezing level at 7000' but it got colder with more precip as he descended. Not a good situation to be in.

[@MrFlyboy71]

I was flying in and out of DFW all day that day. Yes, my CRJ picked up pretty good icing in the clouds in the descent out of about 6000’. It was mostly clear above that, plus a temperature inversion where it was about 14-15 degrees Celsius above the clouds around 7000’.

[@PlanetDental]

love me some crj flights

[@Boytano320]

Same, above clouds at 210 knots descending we had a tat of 12c. Immediately entering imc tat dropped to 8c.

[@Banshee365]

I was flying in to Tyler that day as the winter storm system was moving in. I was in an Citation. We were only in the clouds for a couple of minutes on the approach but picked up quite a bit of clear ice. What was really crazy about it was the temperature inversion that particular day. It was 12 degrees at like 5,000’ and by the time you got to 2,000 it was below freezing. Really really weird and very favorable conditions for some pretty heavy icing.

[@kristinwinter5006]

That was a time to reduce power, push out the landing lights and come down at 1,500 fpm and get through it very quickly, or better yet, find a better place to go. I can't imagine what was so important with your kids on board that waiting a day couldn't work.

[@gilzuniga6692]

@@kristinwinter5006get there-itis. A common human factor that affects all pilots but more so the pilots with less experience.

[@PeopleAlreadyDidThis]

I live south of Tyler. Somebody flew over the house northbound just above the treetops. That was only the second time it’s happened in 20 years. Maybe they were on the deck because of the weather.

[@Banshee365]

@@PeopleAlreadyDidThis When was this? It couldn’t have been me because I was simply on the LOC and GS landing on 04.

[@drjimjam1112]

12* is below freezing. Can you correct your data?

[@tracer14]

My hard and fast no-go is the freezing level. Seen too many accidents related to icing.

[@PatrickLipsinic]

I saw the aftermath of icing in Jan 1995 at the airport in Guthrie, Ok. Another 310 stalled during a landing, slammed down onto the runway. Collapsing the gear, broke the left wing and skidding off the runway into the grass. Luckily the father and his daughter survived and were not hurt. This happened at night while they were head to Colorado if I recall correctly, to go skiing. I got in at 7am that morning and my boss too me out to show what happens when you get ice on a plane and the dangers. The ice was still all over it in cone shapes on everything to the wings, stab, vert, spinners and so on. I was extremely surprised no one had serious injures.

[@RyTrapp0]

Talk about lucky

[@bosoxer4eva]

Wow, appreciate the comment on your history witnessing this sort of thing and appreciate your boss taking the time to educate you on it as well. Just such a terrible tragedy that appears could have been avoided with better judgement by the pilot.

[@HeronPoint2021]

Greetings from Canada in this cold freeze: I wouldn't get into my TRUCK right now. Stay safe all the way to Alabama.

[@RockandRollWoman]

😂

[@Johnfisher12345]

I’ve lived a lot of my life in a place where we get real winter, but I’ve never seen freezing rain here. However, I’ve spent the last two winters in Texas and I now have a clear understanding of what freezing rain is. I could not possibly imagine getting in a plane in those conditions, and like you I wouldn’t get out on the road either! Totally irresponsible to think you’re safe to fly or drive in those conditions.

[@mijo3642]

Flew these for a long time in the Northern UK across the Irish sea and the North sea. I had full de-icing kit, props, windows, boots on tail and wings. It was still a handful even in inadvertent mild icing conditions. Ice builds up between the engines and fuselage under the leading edge of the wing. Then as it gets slow the AoA increases and the ice increases.. it cannot survive for long ... and ice builds up on the front of the main tanks...

[@ko9446]

It was cold Sunday. I took commercial from Tulsa to Dallas Love field then on to LAX. At 0600 in Tulsa we couldn’t leave the gate, shitter was frozen. When landing at Dallas you could see the ice around the airport at certain locations.

[@shanepraay8037]

I always appreciate the tasteful and objective analysis of these events. All of these fatal accidents involve people's friends, family and loved ones and Juan handles it with sensitivity. We can all learn so much from these accidents, and we should, so they don't happen again, and we don't make the same mistakes.

[@OpusBuddly]

My step father almost killed us all in his C-310 because of severe icing over the mountains. ATC cleared us to a lower altitude and the ice that got flung off the prop dented the hell out of the fuselage. I've encountered mild to moderate icing myself over mountains three times but always got out of it by descending to the minimum terrain clearance altitude where the ice melted. I hate icing.

[@Pratik4311]

If you've encountered moderate icing over mountains THREE times, you need to re-think your ADM.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

Yep. The only thing I fear more than ice is a fire aboard the aircraft.

[@toddsmith8608]

What happens when you descend to the minimum altitude and the ice DOESN'T melt? You've been very lucky so far. Not trying to judge you, but this is how accidents like this happen. People get desensitized to the seriousness of the danger when they've previously been lucky and able to somehow get out of the situation. It's basic human nature and none of us are immune to it.

[@danmurphy9173]

It sounds like descending to minimum altitude is a “created memory item” that “could” work - or a tip that gets passed from pilot to pilot - and I bet many pilots have this stored away. But I second the question: what happens when you descend to minimums and the ice doesn’t melt? I also am curious about the many comments suggesting that this profile doesn’t seem to be that of an icing issue.

[@RyTrapp0]

I think it should probably go without saying that you shouldn't exactly be planning your trip based on "...and, when I start icing up, I'll just descend to min..." logic of course. Rather, IF you do encounter icing, then this is something that MAY help out. And, if it doesn't work, then I guess you aren't leaving anymore comments on Juan's videos. He may make one about you though, so there's that at least. See @dutchflats comment in here for probably the best advice - not that I know what I'm talking about anyway...

[@pameladee]

Oddly, I was looking for routes both by air and on land to get a cancer patient into Houston from that area where Dr. Smith crashed. It was definitely ice…it was not suitable to fly in. My sincere condolences to the family…

[@larrymiller465]

Reminds me of a cargo trip in a non-booted 310Q into Clovis, NM. Went through a layer maybe 1000 or 2000 ft. thick just before a vfr landing. Kept speed up, since I must have noticed ice. Parked the plane and couldn't believe how much ice had accumulated!!!

[@captaintoyota3171]

With these crazy low temps ANY moisture you hit will cause icing. And it will be to the ground. Here in midwest we had freezing fog at ground level recently, something rare here.

[@RadChick]

Good point, nightmarish scenario and again why situational awareness is so important!

[@ChristopherEllwood]

Those ADS-B speed fluctuations are a common artifact for some aircraft on FlightAware. My last flight in a 182 had an occasional ground speed shown on FlightAware of 344 knots! It seems to be primarily aircraft with 978mhz UAT ADS-B out combined with a mode S transponder and is likely due to MLAT approximations when the aircraft moves out of UAT receiver range.

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

Damn shame. I had planned a flight in west TX a week ago, checked all my weather apps and it looked like an easy VFR flight over Lubbock to Amarillo. But I always get a weather briefing in winter, and when I did I learned that icing conditions had set in along my route that were not noted in ForeFlight or my other aviation weather forecasts. I drove instead, and an easy 2-hr flight became a 6-hr drive, but I got there alive. Icing is no joke. 1-800-WXBRIEF is your friend. I wonder if this pilot used it?

[@leokimvideo]

It's no secret how the Weather was so chronically bad in the US. The freezing icy conditions were being reported in Australia, so how did this pilot not notice. Ice build up is insidious in a number of ways, it builds up slowly, tends to be invisible in effect, and when it takes hold on an aircraft pilots can often not understand why an aircraft starts to fly like a rock. By that stage it's too late. I've seen icing conditions so bad that ice thrown off props has put a line of deep dents in the fuselage when de-icing boots on a prop fails.

[@65gtotrips]

I think you have a typo ? Australia ? Australia is in summer. Do you mean a town named Australia in the U.S. ?

[@Kaalvoetranger]

It's summer here in Australia mate. There's been some big rains but nothing close to snow. I don't think the weather here is related to the weather in the US

[@harris741]

​@@65gtotrips think he means he heard about it halfway across the world, so a local should have known

[@LantanaLiz]

@@65gtotrips Can confirm that Australia's heard about the bad weather and various blizzards going on in America. It was extremely amusing when one of them asked me what to do in a blizzard when 95% of this country doesn't even have snow.

[@leokimvideo]

@@65gtotrips The freezing icy conditions were being reported in Australia, yeah it was big news

[@737Parkie]

We picked up some light rime ice on approach into DFW in the 73 when this happened and made a PIREP. Really sad accident.

[@airplanegeek893]

So sorry to hear about this devastating loss. May they rest in peace. 😢

[@kenclark9888]

I was out the one week ago and it was hell. I was in a Citation XL and we were hearing reports of icing all over and moderate to severe turbulence. This winter weather is no joke! Take good care people.

[@MichaelLloyd]

Wow... I heard this aircraft on my scanner when he was talking to ATC about his route of flight and how to get around the weather. I live between Houston and San Antonio and get a lot of different traffic, mostly airliner. I looked the enroute weather up and thought he had to have been in a jet. I didn't look the N number up.

[@brandongentry66]

What frequency was he on?

[@MichaelLloyd]

@@brandongentry66 My scanner picks up various ARTCC sites (sectors) and a couple of RCAG sites. The scanner, a Uniden SDS 200, isn't near me so I rarely see what site it's picking up. Assuming the flight was direct my guess is it was an RCAG, San Antonio ARTCC, or Austin. It was not a good day for a GA aircraft to be in the air. We have too many resources at our fingertips to not know icing conditions existed.

[@brandongentry66]

@@MichaelLloyd yessir I had the same thoughts. He was a friend of mine. Experienced pilot. Doesn’t make sense.

[@MichaelLloyd]

@@brandongentry66 First let me say I'm very, very sorry for the loss of your friend and his children. I had a big reply typed up and accidentally lost it. I spent 30m looking at the ADSB track on ADSB Exchange. I have the paid version because I have a receiver and share data with them. IMHO it's a lot better than the free one. Anyway. The short version of what I typed. The ASN link in Juan's description is decent. ADSB Exchange doesn't show the spikes in airspeed that FlightAware shows. He had a fairly normal flight. I don't think it was icing either but I don't know. Somewhere around Hamilton he started a 600(ish+) fpm descent from 6,800' to 6,700, completing that around Hamilton where he started a climb back to 6,800. He completed that a little before (west of) Grandbury. Then at 18:04:33, 228 kts, 6,825', he started a descent and at 18:05:02 he was at 226kts and 6,650'. Nothing alarming there. From there he started a normal descent and slowing the aircraft for approach. The final ping was descending, 1,575', 151kts. That's low. There are a lot of towers and power lines between him and the airport but they are all 300-400' agl. 4,200' is the OROCA for that sector. 3,700' is the OROCA for the Mineral Wells sector (that's what I'm calling it because it's to the east of Mineral Wells.) There are two towers along the route of flight. 1,482' (320' agl) and 1,362' (261' AGL). His last ping was at 1,575'. I would think someone would notice if a tower or power line was struck but extrapolating the terrain is around 1,100' in that area. I wonder if he had a local altimeter setting?

[@BKD70]

I flew C208B's for 11 years in the midwest, 11 winters of commuter airline flying under my belt from Minnesota to Michigan to Wisconsin, Chicago to Iowa to Missouri, Arkansas, Tenessee, to Atlanta, so I'm no stranger to flying in the ice. This doesn't look like an icing encounter accident to me just looking at the data presented. I would like to hear the ATC tapes, that would give a lot more information.

[@daveluttinen2547]

If the altitude recovery, however brief, occurred, something else is involved in this. What a tragedy for the family and challenge for the NTSB. RIP x 3.

[@toddsmith8608]

I agree. Normally the data would show a level off, followed by a steady decrease in groundspeed. Data here seems to show a constant groundspeed with no attempt to arrest the descent. It will be interesting to see what the investigation reveals.

[@BKD70]

@@toddsmith8608 I agree with that. I hate to speculate, but I've got a few ideas about what might have happened. I will say that I think ice may have been a Contributing Factor, but it sure doesn't look like a Primary factor, at least from this tidbit of data. I reserve the right to change my opinion as more data comes out, although I don't think I will have to.

[@RyTrapp0]

Yea, looks like it flew into the ground more so than fell into the ground for sure

[@chicketychina8447]

Poisoning!

[@michaelimmell9728]

Thanks for this content Juan. This channel has given me the confidence to officially start my pilot training. You are such a good source of information and always remind us to take training seriously and never stop learning.

[@clarencethomasisthegoat]

After Richard McSpadden died I've 100% given up on pursuing my ppl. If he can't make it, I have zero chance. I'll stick to flight sim with a VR headset

[@Johnfisher12345]

Don’t give up so easy. Also, better to be informed, Richard was not the reason his plane crashed.

[@kenkellar2246]

don’t forget back to basics and actually flying being just as important when autopilot is not working properly…

[@wadepatton2433]

me too. Going to set up a sim and fly it while I save money for cockpit hours. I'm not as bold as I used to be, and am in great health.

[@Hjerte_Verke]

@@clarencethomasisthegoat Might as well stop driving too, if you had an engine failure because that's what happened to McSpadd. Blame the engine, not the person in such cases...and maybe you should focus on twin engines airframes?

[@jandglewis]

XBP is my home airport. The discussion at the airport is fuel exhaustion. He was about an hour late. That could explain the steady descent into terrain. I haven’t heard anything of a post crash fire. ATC tapes should answer the question.

[@dhouse-d5l]

Excellent summary as usual. Week in week out it seems, yet another light twin death zone. Basic training is still wanting. Pick only one. ice, imc, night, terrain as Dan Gryder says.

[@TravelWithGus]

Hey Juan, there was a small plane crash here in Massachusetts that killed the owner of a flight school as well as an instructor and student. I would appreciate it if you could make a video about this incident as we need to know more about it. Thank you.

[@blancolirio]

On it....

[@krisskliegleka1gju900]

Looking at the images of a fully intact BE-55 laying flat on the ground, yet another stall/spin accident. Little to no forward motion (no ground scars) of the aircraft upon impact. We landed in DFW from MEM and had a large temp inversion in the bases of the clouds ~3K' MSL (~2400'AGL) Light rime, but nothing like ice we took on in MEM the night before. Got out and took pics, never had that much ice on a B737-NG before.

[@sfulibarri]

​@@blancoliriogrim work, but important. Thank you for all you do.

[@MyTube4Utoo]

@@krisskliegleka1gju900 Just read a short article on it. An eyewitness said the airplane came down in a "corkscrew descent."

[@Watchdog_McCoy_5.7x28]

​@blancolirio there was another crash in Mooresville North Carolina a few days back if you could give us any insight on it that would be great. I think the pilot lived also, so that's a good rhing at least.

[@matthewenerson2095]

Little extra info. These early 310Rs usually only had dual 50 amp alternators so they weren’t equipped well. Later model Rs got the dual 100 amp alternators which allowed for a hot plate on the windshield and hot prop prop de ice. 310R is not certified for known ice without a hot plate on the window and of course boots.

[@JBoy340a]

And the hot plate runs $10K for a refurbished one.

[@tadhall1215]

A specific condition, and one we don’t usually see here in North TEX much, was happening that day and may have impacted this flight. Lake effect snow! There was a strong north wind and single digit F temps. Practically all areas south of lake size bodies of water were getting snow. Note Lake Bridgeport at his destination, 20 miles to the north of this accident.

[@boossersgarage3239]

wow, You would think that the weather forecast would have said something, it did. this guy was an idiot...

[@tadhall1215]

And Sunday, 14 Jan.

[@vidpie]

"A deicing boot consists of a thick rubber membrane that is installed over the surface to be deiced. As atmospheric icing occurs and ice builds up, a pneumatic system inflates the boot with compressed air. This expansion in size cracks any ice that has accumulated, and this ice is blown away into the airflow. The boots are then deflated to return the wing or surface to its optimal shape."

[@wb6anp]

One problem with boots, if icing is bad enough ice can start to bridge the inflated boots and make them useless.

[@recoilrob324]

@@wb6anp Right....I've been told there is some technique required with them as too early use can stretch the ice out and the rest then bridges on it where the boots can't break it off. Got to wait until there's enough that's thick enough to shatter when the boots inflate but not wait so long that they can't break it.

[@gregh1579]

This plane flew over my house about 10 miles south of the incident site. Thought to myself self I hope the heater is working and ain’t no way I’d be flying in these conditions. Honestly thought it was a radial engine overhead and that’s why it caught my attention. It just sounded off for a twin.

[@bbigjohnson069]

Whoa! That's heavy. I wasn't that close to the crash site as you were. But the helicopter that crashed with Kobe Bryant aboard passed overhead about 150 yds. at 400 ft. altitude @ 150 mph. I remember a helicopter about 9:15 AM that morning that rattled my windows. I thought it was a MediVac because of the sound and speed. The LASD isn't up that early. I didn't know until I pulled up the flight later.

[@michaelpetz5169]

A heartbreaking loss, my condolences to the family and their friends. I hope our aviation families heed the lessons learn from this accident.

[@chrisnoname2725]

We don't need people to die to know not to do things. The rest of us don't do this. It's not like some new thing that nobody knew about nor something that I've seen pilots be complacent with. At least not where i live.

[@chrisnoname2725]

Lots of the accidents on here won't just happen to anyone. Lots are not freak accidents. Before you take off you know if your aircraft is equipped for icing conditions. You know not to fly below minimums on approach and fly into power lines well off to the side of the runway, to not descend into a valley at high density altitude. Not to fly into cloud without a working AH. People make mistakes. These aren't mistakes. These are arrogance

[@LantanaLiz]

There's been a heap of plane crashes in Australia recently. One at Boonah Golf Club golf just a couple of days ago and the ATSB just released their preliminary report on two Viper S-211 Marchetti colliding at Port Phillip Bay, both with fatalities. It feels like there's been a plane crash here every week or two for the last year. While I'm happy to fly on the larger commercial planes, it definitely raises safety concerns about our smaller, charter operators and private pilots. How are we having so many fatalities and why does it feel like no one in Australia is responding to it?

[@batbiker5857]

Can't tell you how many times we picked up ice, made an unscheduled landing and on descent didn't break out at the forecast ceiling

[@BLACKMONGOOSE13]

Poolville, TX is 46 miles from where I live and I own a lake house on Lake Bridgeport. Your outro music, Juan, is the best in the business. Absolutely perfect for the type of reporting that you do. I say this as both a former musician and live sound tech. Blessing from Fort Worth Texas.

[@ThePwig]

Did he just not have his altimeter set properly? He descended all the way stabilized to the ground it seems.

[@jamesmurray3948]

Probably was at firewall with the throttles and was eking out the best ROD he could do with a load of ice. IFR, so at some point we will hear the transmissions.

[@adamlarson9692]

What a tragedy for the family and community. Hope they’re getting a lot of help and support.

[@Joerad1st]

@blancolirio I told my wife that it would be an icing problem. Due to no de-icing on the plane, on a 9F - 10F high. You are asking for a problem. Thanks for the info boss

[@steveksi]

Right near our ranch. The weather has been extremely cold here. And the weekend was overcast.

[@Ed-jg3ud]

Juan- what do most Boeing and airbus planes use for anti-icing systems? Hot bleed air? Would love to see a follow up video on basic anti-icing systems in commercial aircraft.

[@wb6anp]

Hot bleed air to heat the leading edges, I used to work on corporate planes, most use bleed air, one used TKS applied through laser drilled holes in the leading edges. Bleed air wont run out, TKS will.

[@nancychace8619]

Thanks for sharing. So many of these accidents it seems like the pilots push the envelope in some way instead of backing off from the edge, even if that means scrapping a trip. Just b/c theoretically a plane can operate within a certain spec doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do or the most prudent choice.

[@jameswebb2856]

I probably built that 310. I worked on the 310 line for a few years before I left in 1978 to flight instruct full time. Most of my multi-engine training was done in a 310.

[@peterebel7899]

Once flying on a Dash-8 as a passenger from Portland to Vancouver I was not too happy several minutes watching ice to grow at the wing's nose ... But it melted prior to our landing.

[@anthonygrizzly6924]

It's really cold here in TX right now. Even yesterday, SA international was near dead, didn't see much commercial air travel coming in or leaving and I live in the medical center in SA, near the airport. If it's a bit too cold for domestic & international flights, I couldn't imagine being in a small plane in these horrid icing conditions without de-icing equipment. And remember: de-icing equipment is made for you to ESCAPE an icing situation, not fly through it.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

I don’t think it’s too cold for domestic and international flights. De-icing is made for flight in icing conditions, except for severe icing. It really isn’t made to escape an icing situation. I’m perfectly fine flying a jet in icing conditions.

[@byronharano2391]

I don't fly as an aviator. However, i was a 2nd Class Petty Officer USN jet engine mechanic, AD2. I appreciate your insights. Sad needless loss of lives. Aviation is unforgiving concerning errors anywhere.

[@paulciprus9582]

My dad would have flown the next day…we never flew in icing conditions intentionally…but every once in awhile we would pick up some rime ice on the oat gauge and the ADF antenna …that was in a Bonanzas..icing is scary….😱

[@theinfernalcraftsman]

Just off to my west a little and very close to Paradise. Poolville is west of Fort Worth not Dallas. It has not been flying weather for at least a week. Visibility and icing was very bad on the 14th. If it did ice it would only have melted if there was a post crash fire. The temps have been well below freezing in that time.

[@BilgePump]

Fellers these cases go up in the winter. Fair weather flying for these GA aircraft

[@xyz123yyz]

Thanks!

[@blancolirio]

Thanks xyz!

[@ronandersen3336]

No better advise given Juan, currently instrument training in Omaha, where winter weather conditions come into the go no go decision constantly. RIP Dr Smith, prayers be with you

[@dipling.pitzler7650]

The steady decent with a near nominal rate until impact is imo not typical for wing icing, had anybody thought of an alternative cause like CFIT ( By pilot or Auto pilot)? Was there radio contact during decent?

[@Dilbert-o5k]

Given that descent profile it sounds like CFIT, maybe scud running like you said

[@JasVmitten]

ty, jb...with the icing conditions, will be interested to hear the safety protocol at hand that may have avoided this.

[@patrickunderwood5662]

They’re all tragic but wow, a young surgeon and his sons… heartbreaking.

[@MC-rh3fc]

There is a huge misunderstanding of deice capability and requirements. I owned a 1976 C310R that had boots on the outer wing, horizontal stab, and heated props. This plane was NOT FIKI (flight into known ice) yet many believe you could plan and fly through known ice. The 1977 and on are FIKI certified with the addition of inner wing boots, vertical stab boots, and a windshield hot plate. Bottom line Do Not Plan or Fly into known or forecast ice unless your plane if FIKI certified on the type certificate.

[@noonedude101]

My father survived a flight into icing in a similar Cessna 310R. Also in Texas, strangely enough. He was lucky to find warmer air at around 3000ft MSL and landed safely at a nearby airport. This one hits home for me a bit. The FAA has some great material online, for free. It was produced by NASA. I encourage all pilots to look it up. It changed the way that I approach flight into ice.

[@NotSure416]

Thank you for making these videos. I know it can't be easy to cover these tragic incidents, but it's a great service to the aviation community. Thank You.

[@cvee2614]

Thanks Juan, you have the best aviation safety channel by far.

[@kristensorensen2219]

I had a great story Juan but my lousy phone cut me off just before I could send it. Too bad!! You would have enjoyed it. Keep up the great work! ERAU Prescott 80 CFIA&I ret.

[@andrewahern3730]

How often do iced conditions result in such a smooth and steady descent? I would it would be kinda chaotic as the control surfaces lose effectiveness. CFIT during IMC seems a lot more consistent with the data.

[@ronjones-6977]

I'm not a pilot, but I agree. It will be interesting to find out more as the investigation continues. That's the great thing about this channel. I don't have to "wonder" how it turned out. Juan will eventually explain it to me.

[@brandyballoon]

I agree. We don't know that ice brought it down. Ice may have been a factor in the pilot's decisions, but the data does look like controlled flight, and it was in a shallow climb for the last ten minutes or so, assuming the instrumentation was working correctly (ice can interfere with altitude measurement). Others have mentioned that the type of heater on this airplane is prone to carbon monoxide leaks.

[@ronjones-6977]

@@brandyballoon So it's basically the station wagon of planes. Great.

[@bowzist]

Sad sad . My condolences to the family. I live in Minnesota, I don’t and will never fly on a cloudy day in the winter . For that reason I’ve only flown twice since December 1th. Ice is nothing I wanna mess with

[@David-p7z9n]

I’ve read about shock cooling, especially R22’s on autorotations. However: TCM engines tried to induce shock cooling by getting engines heated in test cell, very high CHT’s, then dousing cylinders with ice water with no results of sticking valves. *most valve sticking occurs after shutdown and is noticed at startup. A&P,IA, worked in part 145 recip engine overhaul shop.

[@dondonzi2627]

Why would you want to shock cool an engine, period?

[@David-p7z9n]

@@dondonzi2627 Pilots don’t want to, but it sometimes occurs and the valve guides shrink onto valve stems causes a “stuck valve” with engine damage, and or engine shutdown The theory is that rapid descents cause this from low engine RPM with cold air blasting the engine, but it’s likely a wives tale. I’ve found that corrosion in valve guides grabbing onto valve stems is the likely culprit and has nothing to do with rates of descent,

[@stjepannikolic5418]

I had carby icing in cruise at 5500ft. Mid summer, high humidity. Continental o300. Glided to the airport.

[@willnelson5692]

Maintaining C402C's in NW Alaska, we replaced cylinders on the TSIO-520's by the cartload. Shock cooling is a real thing in the 402's as that plane is one of those that doesn't like to slow down either. Company policy limited ops at -40F if the plane could pre-warm in a hanger, otherwise -30F so not your average situation for risking rapid cooling. Typically we would see cylinder head cracking at the intake port around the fuel injector, and sometimes at the exhaust port. I think the cooling this is related to the atomizing fuel played a role in the cracking. The pilots I worked with were pretty serious about engine care on descent and did the best they could. There was no speed restriction for extending the landing lights, so that was usually done first, followed by getting the (split) flaps out early. Also, adjust the mixture towards rich very gradually.

[@cgtbrad]

Yep - When you pull the red levers back after parking, the engine gets shock cooled many magnitudes greater than could ever happen in flight with the engines running. Now, on a cold winter day after flying I try to get the cowl plugs in ASAP to contain some heat, but I'm generally not overly concerned with shock cooling. There is another good reason other than shock cooling to keep the power on in descent. That is to keep the engine driving the propellor rather than the propellor turning the engine. This keeps the rings seated better and minimizes blowby.

[@ThrowAway-s1c]

Some record cold winters the last few years. Rough stuff

[@M1903a4]

What was the air pressure (QNH) at departure and destination? When I flew coast to coast several times in a Mooney back in the day I crossed fronts a couple of times that had a significant change.

[@FreshTillDeath56]

😢 rest in peace :( No life should be cut that short.

[@Halli50]

I started flying in 1970 at 66°N and became commercial in 1977. My home base for decades was Isafjordur in the West Fjords of Iceland and if you want experience in flying light twins in icing conditions, I am, or rather WAS (I've been retired now for 9 years) your man. In my experience, airframe icing is not the most critical problem. Sure, you gain some weight and deform your airfoils somewhat, but the BIG issue is the degradation of the efficiency of your most important airfoils; you propeller blades! Once you lose thrust, you are sunk. Failed wing/stab de-icing boots are a genuine problem, but failed PROP de-icing boots are a disaster! Believe me, I've been there, done that! If I were to rate anti-ice/de-ice capabilities in order of importance, I would call prop de-ice most important, followed by windshield/pitot tube anti-ice (you HAVE to see where you are going to land safely).

[@brhbrh6326]

Having often flown to Bíldudalur, and on the postal flight hopping up to Ísafjarðar many thanks!

[@Maurice-c6z]

I lost my brother ,he was flying his glassir 111, over Cheyanne Wyoming ,no explanation for the crash I think you may have something there with prop icing as the farmer he flew over said the engine was going flat out( he was experienced with planes) gives me something to ponder about

[@mikebarushok5361]

Juan, at some point it would be worth an entire video on the difference between anti-icing and de-icing equipment. And what is certified for flight into known icing verses what may save your life when encountering unexpected icing conditions.

[@larryuptain3404]

Anti-icing is proactive whereas de-icing is reactive. Turbojets are equipped with anti-icing where bleed air is routed to the leading edges and engine nacelles to prevent ice from forming in the first place. Turboprop aircraft are equipped with de-icing which is an attempt to rid the aircraft of ice. This method is not perfect by any means, and the boots must NOT be inflated prematurely, which can cause the ice to simply stretch and stay, instead of breaking off. That ice will stay on the airframe until you either get to an altitude or area out of the icing conditions. Eventually it will either melt or sublimate.

[@xx1590]

Another great Juan Brown report like no one else can do.

[@volationlimited9214]

Could it be that he failed to make a cold temperature correction for pressure altitude? Seems 800ft/min ROD is a controlled descent - not one influenced by ice on the leading edge. Possibly some ice on the pitot system?

[@timhensley8802]

From what I remember flying the 310. If the windshield is obscured by ice it can very difficult to deal with. Add that to possibly trying to scud run, it’s not a good combination for sure. It will be interesting to see what they figure out on this.

[@daftDAFdriver]

Blunt explanations about ice conditions, on intro, very well done 👍 RIP to those who died

[@geraldsmith5690]

I am a Wise County Texas resident wit an alternate home in zHobbs NM, so very sad crash. Thanks for sharing.

[@petesachs1276]

I flew last week in a Challenger650, the weather was terrible everywhere 2 to 400 foot ceilings in fog .seemed like all over the country a half mile or less in many places. Even in Las, Vegas was down to 500 feet and rain never seen that in 22 years.

[@keithbrunson7190]

My instructor years ago, said "Surgeons make the worst pilots, because they are overconfident too frequently." My physician succumb to running out of fuel four miles from the runway. I gave another surgeon my day of IFR instruction to a young surgeon and on that day, he got killed in a piper Saratoga. The numbers are substantial. Doctors crash their airplanes. They can save lives, but they sometimes cannot save their own when in an airplane.

[@dutchflats]

I think they tend to overestimate their intelligence, hence their ability to cope with things? I remember V-tail Bonanza's used to be referred to as "spilt-tail doctor killers." The phrase you don't know what you don't know applies.

[@keithbrunson7190]

@@dutchflats so true. They call the Saratoga “the widow maker” and I refuse to fly it. It’s very unforgiving. But while I respect MDs completely, the FAA confirms that the professional who has the most fatal mishaps is the physician. Overconfidence is great in an O.R. But an airplane can always be humbling, unless you think you more than you do, of which doctors live their life by.

[@thejerseyj5479]

Numbers may be misleading, and we have to look at percentage. What percentage of aviators are doctors, and how does that correlate to how many crash. If most "professionals" flying are MD's, then yes, most incidents would involve MD's.

[@keithbrunson7190]

@@thejerseyj5479 they are brilliant academic people. But not everyone is suited to fly an airplane, and Doctors are not. You can’t be a superlative on everything, but they All try. And they all die.

[@Johnfisher12345]

This is an interesting discussion on who should and should not fly, and some people not knowing what their limits are. I’m an automotive mechanic by trade, I’ve done a lot of racing and have well above average skills when it comes to car control and driving in general. But I know better than to think that translates to flying skill. I’m quite confident in fact that I would NOT be a safe pilot, in part because I know my own personal internal “accelerometers” if you will work well in two dimensions, not three. If I got out of shape in an airplane I do not at all have the confidence that I would be able to hold it together and save myself. I stick to the things in life that I KNOW that I’m good at. I expand my horizons to other things only when the consequences for failure do not routinely result in death.

[@RockandRollWoman]

I have spent many hours delayed, and even had an unexpected overnight on the floor at O'Hare one New Year's Eve decades ago, due to icing. I never objected to a single minute of that delay. Most grumbling about delay is unnecessary. There's a delay for a reason. If it turns out to have been poor planning, I'll be alive and have time to be annoyed later. RIP. 🙏

[@kevinsellsit5584]

I was in Texas from Phoenix to Mass just before Christmas 1996ish and had to go through de-icing 3 times because the line to take off was long enough to build up notable amounts of ice. I had to be cool so my wife didn't get scared, but I'd have been totally okay with sleeping in the airport if required. Aside from a rough ride and lots of lightning to look at we made it safely to our destination. ;)

[@13donstalos]

Fr people are so self-centered, they can't compute that there are more important things happening than their precious schedule.

[@tomtexas2037]

Icing can be serious. 30+ years ago one of my friends (PPL, former Naval Aviator) was flying a single-engine plane from PSP to RHV. Started icing over the Sierras. Made it home safely, but had a 310 with boots within a month.

[@austincjett]

Maybe, static port Icing leading to altimeter error and controlled flight into the ground?

[@gregoryknox4444]

I got my ME in the 310 R model. We had boots. We also had a gasoline Genitol ? cabin heater (sometimes it would not work and there was a limit to the start attempts) but it was subject to carbon monoxide leaks, so we always kept the CO2 indicator in case of leaks (we never had one, but it was a possibility). I flew about 200-250 hours in it for charter Pt 135 pay. It was a great airplane. I think you're right about the icing encounter. RIP doc and kids.

[@cfi1598]

The heater is a Janitrol in the twin Cessnas. Southwind in the old Piper Apache (Brrr).

[@dutchflats]

@@cfi1598 I thought it was the reverse of that, Southwind in the Cessna and Janitrol in the Piper Aztec? The Aztec heater would frequently quit on me including one time when I flew the US Attorney General from IAD to ROC, so embarrassing?!

[@cfi1598]

@@dutchflatsthe 1975 Cessna 340A I flew had the Janitrol heater and it started smoking on one of my trips. I worked on an 1974 Aztec and it had the Janitrol heater. The Southwind was used in a number of aircraft also. Both have had ADs issued against the older units. Even the Cessna 172 had the option to install a gas heater. I believe that it was for the Southwind.

[@dutchflats]

@@cfi1598 So I looked it up and the OEM heater for the serial number of the aircraft I flew (310R) was a Southwind # 8259HR2 45,000BTU gas heater. Don't know but a number of aircraft could've had replacement parts installed?

[@danytoob]

Hindsight, while so often 20-20, it is also all too often sad sight. Heartfelt condolences to all those and their families devastated by this incident. RIP

[@waynej1883]

Back when I flew for a living, we had a saying; "Hindsight is a lot more like 20-10. Make your foresight 20-10, and you'll live longer." The longer I flew, the more I realized the truth to it. In my final years, at the end of the weather briefing, I'd ask myself what about this flight would the accident investigation board members shake their heads about and ask "What was he thinking?" Based upon the flight data, I'm not at all convinced that this was an icing-induced crash. Hopefully, the board will be able to find the cause.

[@GaryCCope]

He did his residency at Roanoke, VA, within 50 miles of my home in Dublin, VA. Gary C. Cope, former USAF-CAP pilot. This is a very sad story. :

[@AlbertHess-xy7ky]

Thank you for being Juan Brown.

[@jmonk96]

I was supposed to fly a jet out of Houston - IAH on this day and the weather was nasty. Limited de-ice equipment at the airport led to my flight and hundreds of others being cancelled.

[@babygrrlpc5057]

I pray they all rest in eternal peace. Such a tragic loss. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

[@bobbyg9662]

Keep your children safe, that is your job!

[@Know_Your_Enemy]

Already starting 2024 with way too many GA Incidents!!

[@GusHeck]

Wonder if the steady descent allowed the control surfaces to ice into position... Then shocked pilot barely breaks them free before impact but then after descent induced airspeed bleeds off, too much drag and too little lift for sustained flight from remaining ice. It's a story that fits the data...

[@ktmcc4360]

Sad situation. God bless the family.

[@christopherrobinson7541]

The trace looks like the aircraft was being flown by the autopilot throughout including the descent, during the final stage possibly through cloud.

[@divyajnana]

Amen, sadly again, Mr. Brown. When a triple 7 pilot refuses to fly GA in IMC, that kinda sayz it all. Hopefully more people will hear you. Keep up the good work. Thank you.

[@ronaldgustafson3073]

Even with certified deice equipment, you become your own test pilot in icing conditions. I conducted flight testing in actual icing (had a backscattering laser spectrometer for particle size and liquid water content - see FAA info). Boots didn’t work, inlet heat didn’t work, oil cooler deice didn’t work , prop deice didn’t work, and started losing control with more than 5 degrees of bank. All were FAA certified. Boots and prop were certified based on analysis - the cheap approach. Pitot heat did work - melted into ice on nose. Nothing works as expected in difficult icing conditions.

[@johndemerse9172]

Great post Juan. I just wish this guy wouldn't have taken an incapable aircraft into icing conditions, if that was the case. Up here I use Nav Canada for my weather not the weather channel like some. Cheers from CYYB.

[@justinjwolf]

I think you accidentally misstated which temp was dewpoint @2:00.

[@boblivingston4841]

I sold my 1973 C-310 to a guy that flew into ice and stalled it right over the runway.Hit so hard it tore of the right tip tank and bent the right wing.Don't mess with ice, if you get caught in it you are now a test pilot.