Death of a Game: Gwent

"Care for a game of Gwent?"
Mistake: I said they removed leader abilities, I meant faction abilities my mistake.
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#DOAG . Death of a Game is a series dedicated to uncovering the mysteries surrounding the death of a game or company. nerdSlayer defines the term "death" in the context of the show as either... 1. Literally dead. 2. Had a mass exodus of players and never recovered (expectations etc). 3. The company ceased to exist. We follow a timeline of events, to uncover clues concerning why a game or company doesn't do well, and attempt to put it all together at the end for a deduction explaining how or why the game failed based on the evidence gathered.
0:00 Intro
2:22 Timeline starts
28:29 - Final Deduction
Sources:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwent:_...
play.google.com/store/apps/de...
store.steampowered.com/app/12...
www.cdprojekt.com/en/media/ne...
• GWENT: The Witcher Car...
www.youtube.com/@PlayGWENT/vi...
• [BETA VIDEO] GWENT: Th...
www.engadget.com/2020-03-24-g...
www.engadget.com/2019-09-13-g...
www.playgwent.com/en/news/268...
www.engadget.com/2016-06-13-g...
www.gamespot.com/reviews/gwen...
www.polygon.com/23496337/gwen...
www.metacritic.com/game/pc/gw...
steamcharts.com/app/1284410#a... www.playgwent.com/en/news/263...
www.redbull.com/int-en/gwent-...
www.playgwent.com/en/news/726...
www.playgwent.com/en/news/284...
www.playgwent.com/en/news/311...
www.playgwent.com/en/news/356...
www.ign.com/articles/the-witc...
www.ign.com/articles/witcher-...
www.gamepressure.com/newsroom...
www.gamespot.com/articles/gwe...
www.cdprojekt.com/en/media/ne...
forums.cdprojektred.com/index...

[@EnigmaticPenguin]

I never made the Pro league, but I was rank 2 and my peak and I played GWENT until last summer. What absolutely killed it for me was their policy of not fixing broken decks during a season. A season would launch with a spectacularly broken card and everyone either jumped on that meta or tried to build a counter deck. It became no fun at higher ranks. It was only worth checking in monthly as a result.

[@DCapps1994]

I'll never forget for how Long Mysterious Challenger Secret Paladin was broken in Hearthstone, and Blizzard just completely ignored it.

[@ChunLo21]

My guy rank 2 is not “higher rank” Hell even pro rank isn’t “higher rank” One can always spam games to get into pro rank given how broken the rank system is

[@Doom1491]

@@DCapps1994 it's kinda a Ben Brode thing, Marvel Snap rn has the same too slow balancing issues; Hearthstone has now a really great pace of changing cards

[@FasterthanLight11]

The most fun I had was the low ranks. Youd get the occasional munchkin deck but mostly its was pretty varied.

[@joepkippensnuiver2969]

I played for 2 years as my TCG of choice, and never even realized there was a pro league. TBF I also would not have watched it.

[@collectorking6204]

The game has fair monetization, great art, a good season pass and good gameplay. This is one of the very few games that I have gotten a season pass in and have not regretted it. Overall it's a shame.

[@ChickenMcThiccken]

yeah but it was never mtg ; and it was doomed to failure. the only game that can even come close is elder scrolls legends; but even though its not being worked on anymore; the client always keeps getting updates. so that tells you something.

[@collectorking6204]

@Nexo Probably someone though he knew better and money.

[@armoredchimp]

@Nexo I agree and I played since closed beta. It was a good game post-rework, a bad game after the first big rework, but a truly excellent game in the early days.

[@goncaloferreira6429]

so why didi it die?

[@xarmanhsh2981]

You would also never regret gettint an event pass in lor

[@AcencialAMV]

This one will hurt, I played so much before the homecoming, up to the pro ranks, there still isn't a ccg that scratches that tactical itch between a poker game and a card game with so much freedom to set up baits and misplay. It was just never the same after Homecoming though

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

It's quite a bit less complex, but I find Marvel Snap does a decent job of delivering tactical mind games in card form. Really easy to get cards without spending money also

[@BodybuildingSteve]

@Cristo Alba its so pay2win though

[@McJethroPovTee]

It's not to the level of Gwent but Legenda of Runeterra, it's a lot more f2p friendly than Snap.

[@kasaix_yt]

Legends of runeterra was a nice reppacement for me maybe it will work for you as well?

[@italianspiderman5012]

@@cristoalba5781the definition of p2w is that you gain advantage by spending money, so by definition marvel snap is p2w, period.

[@saltyking2350]

I never thought there would be a Death of a Game on a game I actually played, feels weird I've been with the game for so long, easily the most hours I've put into a multiplayer game

[@williamw8590]

Damn, it's finally time for one of my favorite games to be on this channel. RIP gwent

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Happy and sad mate

[@jakubpuawski3875]

fun fact: Gwent as described in Sapkowski's book was basically just a variation of bridge, the cards used were different than a standard deck in real life, but the gameplay seemed to be extremely similiar

[@policeofcydonia4266]

what i remember from reading the books is Gwent was basically a dwarves screaming at each other competition lol

[@TheAgentmigs]

Had some of THEE best game art ever.

[@simonbaldik9436]

I and all my fellow friends bought something off the Gwent shop. Not because we felt like we needed to, nor did we truly want to. It was just a way to thank the developers. I still remember a conversation with my brother where we both said that we're going to buy something from the next expansion only because we want to help the devs. Talking about small loyal fan base lol

[@koraptd6085]

Yeah the prices of most of the stuff were to high tbf... I always wanted to buy one or two journeys but paying 40 zł for a couple cosmetics when I could get TW3 with expansions for the exact same price or a battle pass in Fortnite for less than half of that (plus it's a one time purchase assuming you do play the game to retrieve the premium currency) just didn't seem right to me. But I did get the starter pack at least.

[@saminrahman5165]

So did I my friend

[@EsteemedReptile]

People like you who think they're "helping the devs" by buying microtransactions are honestly the worst kind of idiot. Do you think they're running a fucking Twitch stream? Are they a charity to you? That money doesn't go to hard working little mister programmer who cleaned up the sound file for your favorite card. He's already got his pittance of a salary. That money goes to the publishers and the shareholders. God I actually despise morons like you.

[@EsteemedReptile]

God I DESPISE morons like you who think that spending money on microtransactions somehow "helps the devs". What, do you think they're running a fucking Twitch stream or something? Are you braindead? The programmers don't get a bonus if you buy the cosmetic shit, you fool. They've already got their pittance of a salary. The money you just spent went to the publishers and the shareholders. God, you are so stupid.

[@DAFIZZIF]

According to a quick Scryfall filter, there should be 171 Mono Black Color Identity Legendary Creature cards in mtg. Granted some of them are from less than defualtly legal Un-sets and there are other exceptions such as Ormendahl, Profane Prince being the flip side of a land, but this still leaves far more than the estimate of 9 Mono-Black Commanders.

[@FaustNoa]

As an avid MTG fan, I thought he was joking since it feels like we get 3 new mono black legends a set (hyperbole, but not too far from the overproduction WotC has been forcing the last few years) Yea there's way more than 9.

[@Akursedtime]

I remember playing Hearthstone during my dad's stay at the hospital and wanted to find other games to keep the stress away and Gwent and Elder Scrolls Legends were my favourite substitutes. I moved on after my dad recovered from his surgery. It's sad to see both Legends and Gwent die like this when they had potential.

[@theburgerfarm]

We deserved a second Witcher Tales game

[@thegrayyernaut]

I heard about Rogue Mage. What's that game about though? Is it not the same as Thronebreaker?

[@theburgerfarm]

@Khánh Bảo Đoàn Some ab-libbed lore, mostly shit no one cares about. Alzur is there, there is no coherent plot, cards are randomly played without a faction.

[@lkcdarzadix6216]

@@thegrayyernaut rogue mage sucks don't bother can't compared to thronebreaker

[@user-qd8pb2xq7j]

I played this game a lot during beta but at launch they completely changed all the basic game mechanics. It was a fine game still but not the one I fell in love with.

[@omarrangelchavez8937]

finally someone that undestand me :(

[@DarkWraithKevin]

My deck completely broke at launch, so frustrating to see all that get flushed away

[@obscurereferens7377]

Same for me. I loved the beta. I used to get home from work at 5AM, start up Gwent and play until I couldn't stay awake. I miss beta Gwent so damn much.

[@johnssmith4005]

CDPR was really stupid for thinking that I was gonna waste my time learning the game AGAIN after spending more than 1000 hours perfecting my tactics and decks

[@BigMuskachini]

yep closed beta was epic af and then as soon as the open beta patch launched they completely reworked the entire game for literally no reason

[@wolter6102]

Thronebreaker was such an amazing game tbh, the story is incredible and the puzzles are pretty crazy

[@badboje6040]

Fr, such an underrated game

[@Setorrs]

Then we didn't play the same game. Thronebreaker was filled with game breaking bugs and an annoying gwent compared to the awesome version in witcher 3.

[@BlueRanger57]

Great soundtrack, too. Holds its own against the other Witcher games.

[@sousiegousie2554]

Agreed. Thronebreaker was soooooo goood

[@euychua]

Hopefully this means the new golden nekker game is still in production

[@hunterbrady4789]

Sad to see it go. This is the best and most unique digital TCG of the decade

[@kyotheman69]

*looks up "oh sure, yeah so sad" *looks back down at phone continues to play Marvel Snap

[@Allen-qs2xr]

Yea no. RuneScape legends disagrees.

[@m.z.671]

I think, everyone has their own "best and most unique digital TCG". I.e. mine is Eredan, old browser flashpased TCG, that died due to wild greed of developers.

[@mickethegoblin7167]

Lol, those games suck

[@brainsick4428]

Laughably some of us do have officially licensed physical Gwent cards. Others have reproduction cards, It isn't purely digital.

[@Slop_Dogg]

Never been a CCG guy, but my friend really got into this one & I actually learned just so I could watch her play. Hopefully Gwent has a second life when CDPR revisits the Witcher universe.

[@ereviscale3966]

I hope they make a different game for the next one that's fun this time

[@ereviscale3966]

I can see how against humans it would be a lot more fun

[@zoa9720]

@@ereviscale3966 Yeah, it's pretty boring in W3 for me too, but was amazing as a full game... until they ruined it. Just all around weird decisions.

[@Synthia17]

I miss the pre homecoming gwent so much, I was a casual who liked the minigame a lot and the standalone was a dream come true. Then it got more and more "pro" and it wasn't fun anymore.

[@spahghettiboi4150]

6:08 companies definitely need to cool it with the esport stuff. I don't necessarily hate it perse, but it can become very noticeable when it is shoehorned. and sometimes, its just best to ya know, have a fun casual experience, be it with and/or against a friend or complete stranger.

[@pandosham]

The playing during the main quests reminds me how you can play triple triad as Rinoa is actively getting possessed and wreaking havoc on a ship in ff8

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

lmao great scene,

[@goldman77700]

Good times. Save the world? Nah, a game of triple triad is more like it.

[@jonro1091]

Great stuff, I liked that they lampshaded the situation with one NPC saying something along the lines of ‘You want to play Now?!’ He still does though.

[@sharkhammr]

"oh my god! The world is ending we're all gonna die! What's that? You wanna play triple triad? Hell yeah, let's go!"

[@Biouke]

Or play triple triad while escaping an high sec prison about to self-destroy XD

[@thomasdye7503]

I think more card games need a single player mode like Thronebreaker. Balancing cards around a puzzle or AI you can do a lot more crazy things and set up scenarios that wouldn't usually happen because you're just focusing on enjoyment of one person and can tailor to that.

[@GiegueX]

If anyone likes the pve aspect of card games i recommend legends of runeterra, a btter pve experience than hearthstone tbh

[@Temperans]

PvE card games are done all the time. Its just that they are usually Rogue-likes.

[@Tomwithnonumbers]

Legends of Runeterra does it to great success. You and your enemies will have special passive abilities which continuously change the strategy needed each match

[@r3zaful]

I really wish that yugioh master duel have a proper solo story mode, the story of the duel terminal terminus etc being explained through paragraph hurt, I need an actual solo mode.

[@iBloodxHunter]

The "stealth" mission gave me inspiration on a couple of different new card games. Thronebreaker is definitely groundbreaking at least.

[@greyfox3954]

I was one of the first to play this at launch... I was so hooked, had after 1800 hours into this. But Homecoming was so alienating, I just managed to play like 200 hours, but it just never was the same, maybe also just getting old :( I miss the community too, Mogwai, Merchant, Ashlizzle(Shiekdmaid), and Anxxia, especially Anxxia, hope you are well :') Farewell memories, hello loneliness

[@BauldyBoys]

I believe a lot of the creators just moved to MTGA

[@koraptd6085]

Burza, Slama, Ryan, Vlad, Jean and so many content creators... This game's downfall was really abrupt and unexpected to me. I just wish the Gwent team all the best and thank you very much for your great work!

[@noma7889]

i used to love gwent when it came out, such a breath of fresh air for poor hearthstone loving highschool me. It had clean simplistic looks, and really fun gameplay, It was probably my favourite ranked experience out of all games. But CDP decided to completly change the game with homecoming and it was just diffrent, they changed the design and in my opinion it started to look a lot more muddy and also the game became more complex needing a lot more commitment, so i just dropped it becouse it wasnt the gwent i fell in love with when it was in beta

[@ianmoriarty2199]

Same here, I'd been playing it since the beta and when they re-launched with Homecoming it felt like a different game and my small brain couldn't keep up with all the changes and additions. I always found myself googling optimal deck builds because I didn't feel like I could build to my liking, as I'd always get hammered by people with more optimal decks.

[@Kaefftw]

I felt the same - Homecoming as a stand alone game was ok, but revamped Gwent instantly turned me off. I really enjoyed beta version.

[@spiderjerusalem8505]

It didn't become more complex I feel like, OBT had more complex cards and mechanics. I really miss the OBT too

[@QuestionMarking]

Honestly i think one of the most unfortunate things is that thronebreaker exists. That right there is one of my favourite games, it has everything i love about gwent in an easily accessible format and is not only both highly replayable and challenging but it's singleplayer. So what reason do i have to not play that over the one with microtransactions and little support? It really just didn't help itself and I'd genuinely rather just play thronebreaker again.

[@QuestionMarking]

Double point to that, I can just play it in the witcher 3 as well...

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Maybe even Witcher 4

[@QuestionMarking]

@@nerdSlayerstudioss Yeah that's a possibility too, it's honestly astonishing because outside of thronebreaker and the witcher i can only think of 2 other cards games i ever got into.

[@RonnieRoseSt]

I find this extremely amusing because I got into Gwent like a week ago and am in the stage of absolutely loving it. It's really fun because I have just 0 expectations and only play because I want to understand various mechanics and I laugh my ass off when someone pulls something at least seemingly unbalanced. But imagine the absolute comedic timing; I never cared for Gwent in TW3, no matter how many times I tried to find an appetite for it. But as a visual artist I wanted to check out the artworks in the standalone, so I downloaded on a whim. And I realized I actually enjoyed the experience! And no chat with the opponent? Great! Makes losing/winning literally not the point (somehow the process is far more fun than the result, little fun game of making the most of what you're dealt, relaxing). Found myself genuinely wanting to congratulate my opponents for outsmarting my little plots. So, sure, maybe the joy will fall off once I figure enough out- as it does with any online pvp game. But no game really made me experience what Gwent:TWCG does. In this context of what the community feels about it? Brilliantly amusing timing. Gosh! Anyway! Hi!! I'm new!:Dd!!

[@Ry-bh4xp]

I miss this intro. Im glad you brought it back

[@shadow_strike9956]

It’s crazy how many card based games we have seen on the channel so far. Gwent, Artifact, Duelyst, ES legends etc I feel like it goes under the radar as a genre that is extremely competitive, not only do you have to compete with Hearthstone but the big three traditional card games of MTG/Pokémon/Yugioh as well. Plus these devs and publishers must think it’s so simple to just make a card based game and it will succeed like that, it’s a very complex genre to make it successful by both appealing to competitive hardcore players while having a casual player base as well with that right balance which is obviously easier said than done.

[@phyrexian_dude4645]

The thing is that the big 3 took years before they actually started a competitive scene. All of them fucked up a lot along the way but endured because of one simple reason: Community. Say whatever you want about the success of Hearthstone after Activision Blizzard discontinued their physical CCG but it doesnt have those ton of stories on playing face to face with people and the shit talking. And for those into the "card stock market" a digital game has no reason to keep pushing the game to survive as an investment because once the servers die, thats it.

[@current9300]

@@phyrexian_dude4645 There are smaller but very alive card games too, like Legends of Runeterra, Eternal Card Game and Shadowverse, but they also are alive just because they are persevering and patiently taking time to curate their playerbase. CCGs are a thankless kind of a live service, they can provide an average income with very small cost, but reaching huge profits with them is challenging.

[@AlekseiPerepelitsa]

card game is a hard genre to crack. Many get boring fast. runeterra got so boring that I don't remember how many months ago I stopped playing. So far the only online card game that stayed fun for a reasonably good length is marvel snap

[@ganyumaindayone1112]

A CCG has to be easy to play, hard to master, well balanced, have competent staff that'll axe op cards etc... look like this game didnt care about the easy to play and balance part, was made to fail

[@Nathan_Coley]

I knew it was coming! This one breaks my heart! 😭💔 Been playing since the tail end of closed beta.

[@Nathan_Coley]

Thank you for doing this one!

[@Nathan_Coley]

Respectfully I've played all of the typical CCG/TCG archetypes in Gwent. Yes different they are all there.

[@AcencialAMV]

@@Nathan_Coley Yep, that's one of the arguments I don't agree with him on. Speaking mostly about pre-homecoming since I didn't like the game very much after it there were all the archetypes in there that fulfil the same power fantasies and gameplay fantasies as they do in other CCGs. Like there are engine decks which are basically ramp decks (cards that gain a lot of value over time and are weak to disruption - consume monsters, self-harm skellige sword bois, forgot the name), pointslam (beatstick mid-range type decks), aggro (swarm decks with lots of small units which would generate a lot of value unless controlled early), control (skillge boats, trap decks, kinda alchemy niilfgaard?, early spies). The best thing about Gwent imo is that there were super weird decks that also kinda broke that midrange-control-aggro trinity which is what made it special. Even though the game was balanced around archtypes (control kinda beating big monsters, but losing to swarms unless you run specific control decks like boats, midrange out valuing control in many cases etc) , you would always have insane deck variety in pre-homecoming gwent where people would cook up incredibly meta countering and meta defining decks that you would just never see if the game wasn't based on a 3-round system. Like decks made to bleed someone round 1 with huge finishers to close it out in round 3 (since Homecoming gave people way more cards in later rounds, it killed these decks), decks that would sacrifice value in order to have carry-over to make your opponent have to over-commit on round 2 if they lost round-1 and then still have a strong unit in game 3 cause of adrenaline rushed ciri:nova or bear master etc. Alchemy nilfgaard or scoia spells which had almost no units and were all about huge swings and making sure your opponent also can't run any sort of a gameplan while still being flexible to adapt to different matchups. I don't think we'll get another game as complex and fun as pre-homecoming Gwent was soon.

[@Nathan_Coley]

@@AcencialAMV I 100% agree with all that you said buddy. Even though I still occasionally play the game (a few times a week) pre-homecoming was some of the best CCG/TCG experiences I've ever had. Gwent to this day is still my MTG replacement because I don't like the way WoTC has gone in the last ~10 years.

[@jon4715]

Open beta was the best. The game is so bloated now. It's so obnoxious. I just want a simple card game, no animations.

[@sadpee7710]

the slow paced rounds are integral to the game. it's the core of experience. the round system is a mind game battle that's all about reading the pace and commitment of your opponent and capitalizing on it. this way each card is tense and important and it doesn't feel slow. for people who don't play gwent or only do so casually, allow me to give (too many) examples as to how deep the round system runs. if you fall behind pace with your opponent even a little bit you lose card advantage in following rounds (assuming they know what they're doing). often an automatic loss. as such you have the weigh the risk and value of engines and tempo. you may pressure your opponent to miss out on combos or setting up their board in fear of falling behind. you can surprise them with sudden tempo near the draw threshold after feigning a slow deck archetype. it's a constant mindgame. if you read your opponent correctly and capitalize on their mistakes games can be won after the first 3 cards. the consequences of the first round feed into the mind game of the next. if you win the first round you can play low commitment and force the opponent to match it. this way you can bleed your opponent of good cards. an especially effective mindgame when you had a short round 1 as many opponents expect you to dry pass and therefore fill their hand with good cards in preparation for the final round. knowing this some players keep mid commitment cards on hand for the second round as to mitigate the potential loss of your opponent bleeding your deck. but then you risk your opponent going all-in and being unable to match it. losing the game 2-0. it's all about reading your opponents intention, calling their bluffs and punishing them for it. however a clever loser can read their opponents read. i have regained card advantage many times doing this. the bluff is all the more convincing if you had a long, devastating first round. the more you lost it by the better. this means you're keeping power in reserve and keeping your opponent confident and cocky. you can try and bait your opponent into trying to 2-0 you. keep a few lower commitment cards to get the bluff rolling, making it seem like you were expecting your opponent to bleed your deck. they'll recognize your weakness and commit. a few cards in (the later the better, maintaining the bluff but risking defeat) surprise them by switching to your best, most high value card combos. you were just pretending to expect bleeding. you got your opponent to commit to a full round 2 that you were secretly guaranteed to win as you retained your full power from R1 unlike them. just so the playing field is evened (or even advantageous to you!). this way losing the first round is a good thing, most opponents expect you to play it safe after the first round, you can punish this expectation. again. mind games.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Thanks for explaining, sounds really boring to me however.

[@sadpee7710]

@@nerdSlayerstudioss yea it's not for everyone. in fact i can see how most people would find it boring (so it makes complete sense why you would include it in the video as a contributer to the game's death) ty for reading my comment. i'm impressed, it's kinda long and boring. you're a cool dude

[@Vektor480]

I loved Gwent and had a blast with it during early beta. However, the changes and "revamps" they made progressively turned the game upside down and changed the things I got used to and enjoyed. I loved weather and they killed that, then I got used to the lanes and they changed that too. After a certain point, even if I was getting refunded all my currency, I just didn't have the energy anymore. Was a real shame, the game had a great concept

[@raidmefti6897]

I always knew this video would come out, and it still breaks my heart. I just don't have the words to describe how much I loved the beta of Gwent and how much Witcher vibes it gave off, it was the only card game I've played (and I've played quite a lot of them) that rewarded skill and strategy over luck, and I managed to beat the most meta decks with my own customized decks and strategies, which always felt so rewarding. It also had the most unique mechanics, for example the Morvran Voorhis Nilfgaard deck and its "reveal" mechanic. Then the Homecoming came out in 2018, and they completely changed Gwent. I tried, I really really tried to love it, but it didn't feel like Gwent to me, it wasn't the game I fell in love with, and it had almost nothing to do with the Witcher 3 Gwent mini-game, which is absurd because that's where most players came from. It felt more like "Thronebreaker : The Online Game" than Gwent. I just want the old Gwent back man...

[@redveinborneo4673]

The lack of deck variety is on the players. There's plenty of more than viable decks your can build that can compete with the meta. It's not the developer's fault that people are lemmings. This happens in almost every competitive game you can possibly t think of.

[@Whitedudeabove]

My main issue with Gwent was how they made the version so extremely convoluted. It was VERY hard to jump in and understand what was going on because every faction had tons of unique and complex mechanics behind them. Compare this to me jumping back into Hearthstone after several years and I could still easily understand new mechanics.

[@crimsoneclipse0618]

@@AzureRoxe Yep, it's literally just there to milk money. And even worse, doesn't every new expansion make every card from the previous one unplayable, making them wild or something?

[@mrbachatin7648]

@@crimsoneclipse0618 Every 3 expansions

[@Whitedudeabove]

@@NotYourbuisness-zz7ds I'm not sure what makes you say that. It's not like I couldn't understand these mechanics. It's just that it becomes too much for any new player. No matter how hardcore of a CCG player they are.

[@For0489]

Yes! I finally did a playthrough of Witcher 3 and decided to play Gwent since I avoided it on my first two playthroughs and it became one of my favorite parts of the game I had so much fun with it! Found out there was an app and was like fuck yeah! Got about 10 minutes in.....nah this is way too complicated

[@Whitedudeabove]

​@@NotYourbuisness-zz7ds Again, no. I literally come from a CCG background. I grew up playing MTG and Yu-Gi Oh and then played HS for like a year or two when it came out. And a MOBA or a fighting game can be overwhelming for new players too, even if they are coming from games of the same genre. It would be incredibly disingenuous to say that they wouldn't.

[@islanddryad]

I got into Gwent during 2020 and had a lot of fun with it. I learnt the different decks, abilities, techniques, hell I even watched people play on Twitch and KZbin so I could learn how to play better. But at the end of the year I took a break and with all of them updates and new cards and new metas I could not get back into it. I was already struggling with playing the same unimaginative “meta decks” over and over and over and that only got more boring with each update. I was playing intuitively, picking cards to fit my strategies and if felt like everyone else was playing some sweaty EZ WIN deck they copied off of Reddit. Sad to see Gwent go but it was too convoluted and didn’t reward intuitive play so of course it was inevitable. Also I’m one of those people that played Gwent because I needed more Witcher content and unfortunately, like you said, they dropped the ball on that so it wasn’t even worth it to bite the bullet and get back into Gwent

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Well put

[@rwentfordable]

Every card game goes this way. I gave up on them years ago. If everyone plays sweaty, it puts new players off, then the game dies. Rinse and repeat.

[@boomerix]

I like to make thematic decks, like for example a Syndicate deck that nearly only exclusively has Witch hunter cards. They can work surprisingly well, especially since off meta decks can catch those players off guard who only copy meta decks without understanding them. I just play casually with decks I made myself and in my experience it's 40% losing to a deck that counters mine, 40% winning to a deck because mine counters them perfectly and 20% of hard fought wins/losses/draws which are the most fun. The only thing that really annoys me are meta players who abandon a match quickly after realising their copy paste deck can't win. Even worse when they just quit without at least pressing the forfeit button.

[@ianmcguire3040]

Gwent does have a lot of archetypes in decks. I used to run Mill and Combo decks frequently in ladder. Using Homebrew decks can help massively in Gwent.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Fair enough I can claim l2p

[@oddityironcog]

I have never had more fun in a CCG than the three seasons before the introduction of the golden nekker. I even had a ton of fun during the nightmarish vampire meta. I've never even played the witcher, the gameplay of gwent alone had me and a friend awake until late at night deck brewing.

[@dion8895]

I loved Gwent. It was the best CCG that I could find, it had fair monetization, and was fun and challenging to build and play different decks. I even streamed it on Twitch for a while. I struggled to make the transition to homecoming, so I dropped off from playing it, but it's still sad to see it die

[@skycap3081]

Before homecoming, this game was a masterpiece I played it every day and loved it. After the 3rd row was gone so was the magic for me. i played only to check out new releases but yeah to me Gwent is awsome and would love to see a 3 row game do what it did pre-homecoming. This one hurts I loved this game.

[@Adv3.]

I really loved the game played it from the close beta and put in it more than 3k hours over the years but 2022 was really tough balance wise and get me completely burn out, yet it still break my heart.

[@wolter6102]

Watching this video drop while I have Gwent open on my PC...this hurts heh

[@vulcan6413]

Once they killed the siege lane that was when I dropped gwent. The interplay between the three lanes was what kept the game unique and fun for me.

[@duukn]

Been watching NSS for a while. This is the first video that actually hurts. Such a great opportunity for GWENT, just wasted on bad decissions and inaction.

[@rustyfence4431]

"The black faction in MTG has like 9 commanders to choose from." Massive understatement, there's currently 100, not including multicolored black commanders.

[@Overbound]

I didn't even notice your voice was scratchy but now I can't unhear it. Glad you brought the old intro back.

[@19ryuusei]

The reveal of the next game, got hit with a wave of Nostalgia. I had so many hours on Gunz. It was so fun

[@aethertag1530]

This one's gonna hurt

[@Levi_Manifesto]

Loved the game until the infamous mid-winter patch. After that it lost a lot of originality.

[@Nathan_Coley]

Mid-winter patch was wild and not in a good way.

[@Adv3.]

i am still amazed that it didn't kill the game back then.

[@N12015]

Also, what you mentioned about "Lack of archetypes" explains A LOT about balancing issues. In card games decks balance oftentimes against eachother, because Aggro beats combo, combo beats control and control beats aggro, altough the circle might get reversed in certain CCGs. It both makes the meta more fresh and allows the game to have more resiliance against busted strats.

[@JCScarz]

I played Gwent since the closed Invite Beta and this video is insanely accurate to my feelings over the years, it’s a shame but yeah you nailed the death of this game I used to love. Rogue Mage was the final nail in the coffin for me as a player. Great vid!

[@AzzRushman]

I'm just glad they made Thronebreaker at all. Games as a service tend to evaporate with time and bad updates. You can only hold a healthy population for so long. I'm eager to check your take on GunZ ! Loved that game, at least I loved it until people began to follow the boring keyboard smashing meta instead of just dodging and aiming.

[@Midnightdragonblaze]

I still have many wonderful memories and look back fondly on the game and community during the beta era. There were a lot of missteps, but for a time it was unmatched in terms of raw fun in the ccg market. Thank you for covering this one; Gwent will definitely be missed.

[@gabrielrojas8511]

Man I've played this game for so long, I remember before the big patch when it was a three row card game. Got my entire deck put in the shredder, and still came back and played for multiple years. Can't believe this game is coming to an end.

[@ap4702]

Got thronebreaker on the switch years ago. Great art style, story, and creative puzzles.

[@MrMelanion]

I played about 500h of this game, but could never come back after homecoming

[@invictus5433]

Gwent was at its best in 2017 when Lifeocach did his tournaments in his house. But then they did that weird update with removing the third row and he lost interest and switched to Artifact (lol) and the rest is history.

[@PeteOnTheBeat]

I played this in the beta man... not long ago I asked to unsub their mailing list after 2 or 3 years wo playing. Sad.

[@FluffyFractalshard]

Oh yeah I remember two friends of mine and I spending afternoons in the witcher just scouring the map for gwent games completely ignoring the story or other gameplay because this cardgame was so addictive, deep and strategical!

[@siddharthsingh-hs3yv]

i played this game for more than 3000 hours , i made to pro qualifiers at masters tour , but for me interest went down day by day , gwent became very different from what it used to be , i still love the game and probably still play it sometimes , it is bittersweet ending from cdpr still atleast we can enjoy last year , i wish 2018 never ended , game was peak at that time

[@Modie]

Personally I played a lot before the Homecoming update. It was fun to learn the different cards while acquiring them. I am not saying that Homecoming is worse, because the problem was I felt burnt out to relearn all the cards again. Especially since it also required for me to completely forget what I had been learning beforehand. It's one thing to learn a card game but this is made more complicated if your brain always goes back to what the cards originally were. Thronebreaker was great though. After a few patches, the fights on the hardest difficulty were really captivating and you had to really make sure to not do a mistake. Of course there were still some extremely strong strategies, but those were only available close to the finish of the game. Especially the whole swamp area was more difficult than I had imagined.

[@Nick-ch8cf]

Still remember playing the skellige deck that could like bounce my graveyard units back into the fight. And then you lose to a last turn weather effect

[@warclericwill4]

This one hurt too. It was a hell of a ride and the Master Mirror hype and expansion got me through Covid and a shit job. You’ll be sorely missed my beloved.

[@TheRealBurek]

I have played this game since the beta and have put 600 hours into it. After two years I have returned to see what is happening and I totally understand why I have stopped playing it two years ago. In my opinion the cards's complexity and the mountain of different key words are a lot even for a returning player, let alone for a new one. It is not appealing for a player to jumo into a game and then have to spend a week or more to learn all the key word and cars just to start enjoying the game. Well most card games are like that, but gwent used to be simple and that is what made it so enjoyable

[@dano_leno]

Dam didn't know the game would shut down I had a lot of fun with it but never felt pressured to play it much. Glad I didn't spend money to grab some card arts recently.

[@crille626]

Funny this video ended up on my feed... played 3-4k hours and did compete in gwent open and hit rank 1 (or 21 in beta) several seasons. sad to see it end the way it did. but you did a marvelous job capturing this recap of one of my beloved games, it was really good to watch :)

[@hackermans]

I played a lot of Gwent Beta, and I even watch the tournaments you mentioned on screen to keep up with the meta and maintain my high rank. I found the three row board with the leaders being cards themselves were a fun time. Of course, the three board format had its own issues e.g. cards that let you draw an extra card and you basically won the game if your opponent did not have a card that let's them draw in response. Nonetheless, the shift into two row format did not really help with the balancing (at least until I stopped playing). At the very beginning, the meta deck was just the Elven faction utilizing Igni. At least in the three row format, there was a lot of faction variety. The devs did mention that they moved to two row format because they found that three row format made it hard to make changes or add new cards without potentially off-balancing so many different variables, but the two row format simplification did not help much either. It was unfortunate since Gwent was very f2p friendly, and because of my time in the beta, I had enough material in the official release to build 11 different decks from the start (though I only ever built the elven deck). I can't say many popular online ccgs have a f2p friendly economy that allows f2p players to compete at high ranks and tournaments. Nonetheless, I believe the writing on the wall was already set during one of the final grassroot tournaments before the beta ended and the two row format would be begin. During one of the matches, both players opted to play on a simulator of Gwent that was in Witcher 3 (rather than the actual Gwent Beta client). Most of the matches in that tournament were show matches at the end of the day, but it was a nice ribbon on top.

[@Dae-D-Ellis]

Man I fell in love with Gwent, was voraciously looking for any early playtest videos, signed up for the free beta. Then it all changed. Depressing as hell.

[@Ender_Queen09]

I used to always play the game on xbox. When they removed it I was so sad

[@TimoCruz177]

I'm still a gwent player and the game is a lot more stable now, but what really makes me sad is how cdpr had such huge plans for these witcher tales like thronebreaker but because they kinda tied them to gwent it spooked a lot of the people away, if only they just kept as a single player experience telling us great tales from that universe it would be amazing to have and we wouldn't have to wait 10+ years for a new witcher game or anything from that universe

[@goldentiramisu7935]

i love how Thronebreaker is the Shandalar of Gwent

[@amundkringensamuelsen647]

What killed it for me with Gwent is that each time I got back to playing, so many things had changed that my old decks and strategies didn't work anymore. It felt like the game was punishing me for having a favourite deck every time they completely rework a card to do something else. In other card games the same archetype can typically survive the entire lifetime of the game, but for Gwent it felt like half a year at most.

[@juanjosedelatorre7644]

This game was amazing, the best of its genre. For me, it killed me when they remove it from consoles. I play marvel snap now but its not nearly as good. And the cards still have the best drawings by far.

[@Cdawg_6969]

This is the only CCG I’ve ever played that actually had fair prices on their monetization. Truly one of a kind

[@euychua]

I knew this would happen, it still hurts though, thank you for covering this.

[@OverlordParadox]

It's funny. Usually those kinds of videos are filled with comments written by by people sh**ng on a game or people angry at devs for making it so bad it was abandoned. But not under a video about Gwent. It wasn't pay 2 play, the music and art was beyond stunning. It was truly amazing game and it's a shame it will be dead soon. At least the art will be used in an upcoming board game, so the work artist put into it won't be for naught.

[@williamedge5130]

To me (and this is a personal opinion) Gwent had the same issues that I find in a lot of CCGs, both online and off - a greater focus on decks as competition rather than decks as self expression or experimentation

[@sudonim7367]

Thats like... Abject nonsense. Of course a competitive game would focus on competing.

[@williamedge5130]

@@sudonim7367 it’s more about a matter of intent - a game can be competitive without it being the main focus, and the significant downside of a competitive focused game is that a meta tends to get shaken out very quickly. That generally leads to a level of power creep as the game designers try to compensate for meta-focused strategies. You could focus a game more on a level of horizontal power dynamics by limiting the number of cards that explicitly synergize with each other as opposed to things like faction based synergies (like in Gwent or the MtG colour chart)

[@snuron]

Intriguing points of Gwent. btw, I used to play Gunz the Duel a lot back in late 2000s. It was my childhood. Can't wait to see it.

[@pedrinhobit]

For the first time I click your video not with a smirk, but a sad face. This game has/had all I wanted in a CCG.

[@dozrFAB]

I will forever cherish the gwent beta before the midwinter update.

[@jset818]

I like how you don't hint the next case anymore. Just straight up tell us what it is. Really makes me look forward to the next video.

[@theindiegamealchemist]

wow, just started to play a week ago :( thanks for the heads up btw. very nice video as always!

[@streamy2916]

Man this was such a good game, tragic that it's gone. I hope they revisit the concept at some pt and just revive it as a single player game. Also I discovered Ur channel after the podcast with Teapot and u make great content, keep it up!

[@d.b.c.t1m059]

I played it A LOT in the early days. The Homecoming update pushed me away. It just didn't feel like Gwent anymore so I never really got back into it despite having put quite a bit of money into it.

[@ZJtraylor]

Maybe someone who played more of the standalone can correct me but I personally really enjoyed the mechanics of Gwent in Witcher 3 and when I played the stand-alone it seemed like the rules were a bit different. Maybe they had to do this for competitiveness and balancing or maybe I’m just remembering it wrong but I remember being instantly turned off by it even though I spent so much time in Witcher 3 playing gwent.

[@skycap3081]

The beta played like witcher 3 gwent then homecoming happened and the game changed,

[@ZJtraylor]

@@skycap3081 That makes sense I see. Thank you.

[@TylerHyperFace]

Gonna push-back on the archetype criticism as this is what made this game different from other mainstream CGs in the best way. I remember the earlier feeling of each turn feeling like a poker-game, and that you could bluff board setups to your opponent who could then over-commit to the board only to win 1 of the 3 rounds. Gwent was immaculate in this sense and the reason I knew many to play it for.

[@kkplx]

completely forgot gwent existed as a standalone game - looking forward to this once i'm done with work.

[@ohnosmoarlulcatz]

The point of these big events is to advertise the game and sell advertisements. This is true of all sports. But, when you attempt to inflate numbers, that's when you start having more issues. Triple Triad > Tetra Master. I kind of understand what they were trying to do with Gwent. With archetypes and serial escalation, you get the power creep problem that comes with Magic the Gathering and Yugioh. It has really gotten out of hand in those games. I do agree that archetypes are important, but it also means restricting deck building or risk things getting out of hand there as well like in Yugioh. In Gwent's case, it seemed like they played it too safe while in Mtg and YGO, they're letting it get too out of control. There needs to be some kind of middle ground, but it feels like the people in charge are always prioritizing power and sales of new cards other than game balance.

[@GatorRay]

Here's a simple way to fix Yugioh (I'm sorry. I know I'm beating a dead horse but still) TAKE THE LICENSE AWAY FROM KONAMI!

[@ohnosmoarlulcatz]

@@GatorRay At this point, that wouldn't be enough. Hand Traps and Link Monsters have forced an accelerated escalation of the game.

[@aziki001]

Oh my. No way. The game of my childhood Gunz the duel will be next video. Can't wait.

[@skellyslav]

Damn, it really hits hard when a favourite game comes onto the show

[@szymonsamson748]

goddamn the 1250 hours i have put into this game now hurts

[@Adv3.]

What can i say with over 3k hours...

[@Bakfor]

Roughly 2k hrs here. It was my go to "watching youtube on the side" game. I just had a hankering for some gwent..

[@andersbjorkman8666]

I also have a lot of hours, will probably never stop playing some Gwent games here and there with my favorite decks, even when they stop releasing new cards.

[@lilyflower5895]

Played this since Alpha and got the Pioneer tag when open Beta rolled out (OG's will know what I'm talking about). Lost interest when they decided to change the wooden board into a battlefield for no reason. I liked it when it looked like a card game. I didn't like seeing character avatars moving around. Unnecessary and visually overstimulating. Also didn't like them nuking the Gold immunity. With that move, half of the gold cards became useless since only the ones with Deploy ability could garner value. Beta had the best archetypes and was the most fun. Too bad the devs destroyed all of that by creating an absolutely new game marketed as Gwent which wasn't the same. I didn't feel like re-learning so much anymore. Oh well. We'll always have the summer off 2017 😭.

[@NateDynamite]

Omg, I TOTALLY forgot about Gunz. I cannot wait for that episode!

[@spahghettiboi4150]

29:32 I heard this game was actually fire, and i love me a shooter, glad to see you'll be covering it.

[@Qbone_]

I love gwent gameplay was awesome and easy to grind for decks.

[@RedRamDRA]

2 words - Power Creep. GWENT promised to always have all cards used, so you don't have to rebuild your collection every time they release new cards. However in reality every expansion would have a new archetype or new cards to support an old archetype, and buffs to old cards from said archetype which have now lost their place in a deck. So all cards you have do technically still have a place... All you have to do is wait for that particular archetype to be re-introduced so old cards get buffed and you stand a chance. The provision to points ratio has been creeping up and up...

[@SansAppellation]

Yup, exactly. And don't forget when they would remove novelty mechanics from older cards because they could potentially counter the new cards they were introducing. In doing so broke existing decks and took colour out of the game.

[@The6thHouse427]

So glad the classic intro is back

[@GuineatheCowgal]

Forced competitive and esports scenes are a sure sign of death, killed Heroes of the Storm, the only MOBA I ever played.

[@dotv2359]

I used to be top 1000 in the world in this game and I probably would have kept playing if they hadn't changed the fundamental structure of the game every few updates...

[@whynaut1]

I actually played this one!

[@Drakenborn]

I remember trying really hard to like Gwent when it launched but balance always felt pretty bad. Most of the time it felt like games ended before they really started because meta decks were super rock-paper-scissors. I will say it does feel like they really tried to make this game happen though. Most companies will lie about years of support and abandon a game after 6months.

[@light18pl]

I never got into it, but for some reason I'm sad to see it go. This and secret world are two things I'll miss.

[@renfrifan1232]

This game is at its core the best CCG on the market being derailed by bad decision making from the team and most importantly a radical reorganisation of funds away from Gwent. I spent 6 good years with this game. Ive seen the peaks, the lows, god forbid Midwinter Update. The death of this game leaves a hole in my heart i dont think any other CCG can fill