DEBATE: Is the Christian God Evil? | Pepper Lim & Samuel Nesan

[@cocobear80]

I really appreaciated how Ps Samuel answered. Very gracious and gentle. May we learn from him and seek to engage in the same way rather than seek to win argument at any cost. Thank you Sam!

[@samnes5992]

Thanks very much brother for the kind encouragement. It was a privilege to share the gospel.

[@nickvassil3528]

If God was real of course it’s evil threatening anyone with eternal torture for not loving them is right up there with the epitome of evil

[@KenAmmi-Shalom]

It's quite simple: on Atheism there's no absolute definition of "evil" nor any universal imperative against it.

[@PepperLim]

Uh, no. I know evil when I see it.

[@KenAmmi-Shalom]

@@PepperLim Note my qualifying terms, "on Atheism" is that upon which "there's no absolute definition of 'evil'": you seem to agree since you don't defined it but merely admit, or so it seems, that it's a subjective personal opinion of yours--based on hidden assumptions--that you know it when you see it. I also noted, that "an Atheism" there's no "universal imperative against it" so that if you condemn what you subjectively consider "evil" that's just a subjective personal preference of yours--based on hidden assumptions.

[@PepperLim]

@@KenAmmi-Shalom Takes one to know one.

[@KenAmmi-Shalom]

@@PepperLim Friend, you're clearly incapable of even discussing such issues. But the problem isn't you, it's that you're relying on a collapses worldview.

[@PepperLim]

I maintain my worldview on your opinion.

[@eyesoffire2325]

Apologists are well trained to say all the same things. The story of Abraham, supposedly told by god to sacrifice his son is always linked by the apologists to the story of Jesus. Again, if you are a parent and you raise a knife threatening to kill your son, and then stop, think of the psychological abuse and trauma that you have just perpetrated on that child. There are animals that take this verse literally in our day and age, and use it to justify their insane behavior. The fact that religionists are okay with it is a disturbing prospect.

[@SoliDGlo]

I really enjoyed how both sides were so respectful and gentle in discussing an important issue. How God's Word defends itself was put on display (Luke 21:13-15). Thank you for this. God is Good.

[@eyesoffire2325]

The bible presents god as the great cosmic manipulator. If he is the origin of all things then it stands to reason that he is the originator of sin. He also then created satan and uses him to deceive people. The bible also asserts that god deceives prophets. This means that if this is true, then there is no free will. All people would just be pawns in a great cosmic chess match, and it really doesn't matter to the players who lives or who dies. Job is absolutely tortured and abused by god to see if he would remain loyal. Again, if people did that to their kids, they would be locked up. And the apologist says; "his ways are not our ways, he can do what he wants". They say this to shut down questions and critical thinking and analysis.

[@eyesoffire2325]

I respect a man who admits he doesn't know more than a man who asserts that he is sure he knows.

[@EatHoneyBeeHappy]

If a man lives his whole life doing the good, then one day kills a bunch of men women and children, I think most people would consider the man at least partially evil. Why should our standards be any lower for God? Even if God only did one evil thing instead of many evil things, wouldn't the one evil act make him at least partially evil?

[@PiggyPiggymcgee]

HIGH CLASS ENTERTAINMENT! THATS ALL WE ARE!

[@megan1445]

God who is Holy cannot have sin in His presence. It's hardly unreasonable for God to say, "Adam and Eve, go off and have EVERYTHING you wish, go and eat from ALL the trees but one!"

[@a.s.k3149]

1. The baby of David's adultery died.... he goes to God, no suffering at all. But David fasted, regretted, repented, cried. He suffered for his sin. Read Psa 51

[@eyesoffire2325]

It pleased him (the lord) to bruise him (his son). Isaiah 53:10. If you are a parent to a son, or daughter for that matter, would it please you to torture your child for something that the neighbour kid did? No. That neighbor kid is responsible for their own actions. It's natural law. Cause and consequence. You hear all the same arguments from apologists, like "god can do what he jolly well pleases", as we heard from this guy in this debate. Just think of the word 'apologist'. It is derived from the word apologize. If something is inherently true, then why apologize for it?

[@Lele0331]

I’m not exactly Christian but I will say this: God told Adam he would die, and Adam did eventually die. Man would’ve been eternal with God. God didn’t lie.

[@ExplainApologetics]

Thank you for sharing. What is holding you back from believing in Christ, the gospel and Scripture? We would love to help in any way possible, please let us know. God bless.

[@truthseekertree]

Yes, exactly I liked Christianity until I read the Bible. Now I avoid the Bible for it cruelty and fear mongering

[@jssingha2152]

God is all knowing. There is nothing that we do, that god didn’t already know we would do. We do everything according to gods will. God would have known that Adam and Eve will eat the apple and leave paradise. As God is all knowing. Also Being all knowing There is no need for god to test or judge us. As god is always all knowing. Hence this life isn’t about God wanting to test or judge us. Only God knows why gods creation exists the way it does. Be spiritual not religious.

[@philipgopal7594]

yes my brother the Bible is Spiritual and supernatural.. when we try to reason explore or try to expose the Bible in a natural and physical logical mind ... it isthan we relinquish ourself of that glorious knowledge of thee truth way and life here unde the sun in this earth and where am i to from here after our departure

[@jssingha2152]

There is spirituality is religion but no religion in Spirituality.

[@ExplainApologetics]

God is all-knowing and God does test His people (Gen. 22:1). Those two concepts are mutually compatible. Is there an argument that would suggest otherwise?

[@jssingha2152]

@@ExplainApologetics explain why God needs to judge when God already knows all you are going to do from before you are born to beyond your life.

[@ExplainApologetics]

A question is not an argument. Will gladly answer your question after you concede you have no arguments to offer.

[@stem289]

Wonderful debate! Thank you very much for articulating the truth of God's word clearly and uncompromisingly. I believe that the fundamental error that Pepper had was thinking that God is like us (Psalm 50:21), thus, leading to his prime argument: "God could've done it better". I also believe that this was well addressed and I pray that God opens Pepper's eyes to the truth and turns to Him, if that should be His will.

[@PepperLim]

Hopefully...

[@JacReviewsStuff]

Omg cool!

[@IronFire116]

Wow, great job here!

[@ExplainApologetics]

Thank you!

[@samuelsham]

Pepper acknowledge God . He also say he is not smarter then God.

[@jakegreen5081]

Samuel Nesan hasn't a clue what he is saying 54:03 "God is not the author of evil", when he earlier just quoted Isaiah 45:7 "I create evil: I the LORD do all these things". Samuel would have no problem with Genesis 1:1 God creates/being the author of creation. But creating evil, he not the author, even though he just quoted the verse God creates evil. Furthermore, Samuel's child in 2 Samuel 12:15&18, Nesan, tries to relate this to Jesus, as he knows in his conscience the verse is grotesque. In this verse the child suffers for a week, unlike Jesus, it is also a child, not an adult like Jesus. What is even more striking is Nesan, doesn't see in both cases the God in question is killing innocents.

[@ExplainApologetics]

Thanks Jake for sharing your thoughts. To be clear, we do believe that God does decree evil in that evil is part of God's decretive will. All the passages you mentioned demonstrate that. However, we deny that God is the primary agent, actor or doer of sin. In that sense, God may decree sin while not being the author of sin. An example would be Judas' betrayal of Jesus. Did God decree it? Yes, Jesus said so in Luke 22:22. Did God betray Jesus? No, God can never betray anyone. God has good reasons for decreeing evil. No one is innocent (Rom. 3:23). His decrees are ultimately redemptive and offer forgiveness of sins to those who recognize their own evil and turn to Him in repentance and faith. We would recommend Jonathan Edward's treatment on the author of evil at the end of his book "The Freedom of the Will." Also, we recommend looking up Augustinian Theodicy which is the Christian approach in this debate. If you would like to speak to us to further clarify our position, we are more than happy to arrange that. Please email us at [e-mail] Blessings.

[@jakegreen5081]

@@ExplainApologetics If everything that happens is according to your God's will, then everything that occurs is due to your God's plan. No creation, no evil/sin. Your God created, thus created evil/sin.

[@lukeng9034]

@@ExplainApologetics Hi, may I know how do you define decree and author? How does God decree sin and yet not the author of sin?