DEBATE: Which Diet is Better for Longevity? Simon Hill vs Dr. Kiltz | Plant Based vs Carnivore

[@Rigpa88]

"I don't know what a polyunsaturated fat is." "Well, you might want to look into that.." 😂

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4upl5Rufpynn5osi=T5jpvFuid3JeM553

[@JCT-g9s]

Wow this Carnivore Dr dodges every question and plugs his favorite anecdote. Simon has amazing patience and manners to make the conversation bearable.

[@KathrynRijken]

Well done Simon! This is the first time I have ever commented on KZbin but I thought you needed to hear what an amazing job you did. So clear thinking, logical, rational and calm! I was yelling at the guy and I have no idea what he was even talking about half the time. I love the way you use science to come to a decision about the best way to eat. I live by your "themes". Keep up the fantastic work!

[@laurelthomsen]

What a maddening discussion to listen too! I admire Simon for not just screaming and blowing out of there. This “Dr” reminds me of a famous politician who likes to talk in circles and deny facts too, and some older men and occasionally women, I’ve met in coffee shops who hang around all day waiting to pounce on unsuspecting customers with the patience to listen to them go on and on about conspiracy theories and nonsense. I kind of wish they hadn’t given this guy yet another platform, but hopefully most people will agree that results based on dozens, if not hundreds of huge population studies are more reliable than anecdotes from a few random people. It’s kind of like when one of my violin students sees someone on KZbin holding their bow or violin in a slightly strange way and they wonder if they should try that too. Well, sure try anything, but recognize that some outlier who might have made it work while everyone else had success the standard way might not mean you’ll have success too. And the person in question might be able to play some basic songs ok, but as a teacher, I can see where this outlier’s method might create a stumbling block down the road. My student doesn’t have the knowledge or experience to foresee this yet of course. That’s why it’s important to look down the road a bit, and help people make educated choices for the future. No one that I know of has ever subsisted on a carnivore diet for a lifetime. As for myself, I’m almost 43 and have enjoyed great, measurable health on a plant based diet my entire life. Yep, I got this far never having even tried meat. But that’s just another story to add to the pile. Go figure.

[@kianarose1000]

I respectfully say, Dr. Kilts cares about feelings and stories, not science. You can’t debate science with someone who refuses to acknowledge science. He kept saying things that almost sounded like science, but he’s not knowledgeable at all in that area, hence why he kept going back to his stories. So this debate was not on the same ground. Simon looks at science, so he needs to debate someone who also looks at science, or else, in my opinion, it’s a waste of time ❤️

[@nyart66]

This is how Dr Kiltz is. I had a telemed appointment with him and he wasn’t listening to me and running around in circles telling me what my problems were. Not helpful.

[@yogiyoda]

Kiltz gives off creepy grifter vibes. Just cause an old dude does TRT (aka steroids) it doesn't mean they know anything about nutrition

[@NessaNZ]

By reducing everything to mere 'stories', (and not actual studïes), we are at the mercy of the best storyteller..

[@YourVeganNeighbor]

So so true. Just show me the data.

[@VerySeriousUser]

If you took a look at all the human nutritional studies, you'd understand how "actual studies" mean basically nothing.

[@NessaNZ]

Push up for every time the word 'stories' or 'story' is said lol

[@NessaNZ]

​@@VerySeriousUserso it's all just stories and no story is better than any other? Just subjective opinion?

[@VerySeriousUser]

@@NessaNZ Call it what you want, at least it's not scientific evidence no matter how many people call it that.

[@BendeMark]

I managed to sit through it in its entirety. It did not get any better in terms of being a two-sided scientific 'debate'. I think one of these participants was so involved in online conspiracies and bro-science that he is gone. The other is fully immersed in the actual scientific method. Thank you for hosting it with a balanced approach.

[@polvalls5454]

The thumbnail is wrong. This is not a debate between plant-based and carnivore, this is a debate between science and populism.

[@KiwiBee21]

Nailed it

[@steveherridge8965]

No nutritional study can be 'science'. Too many variables.

[@AnneMB955]

Plant based won’t be popular for long when we find that meat based is perfect for our health.

[@polvalls5454]

@@AnneMB955 Cool, but how do you know is “perfect for our health” if you haven’t find it yet? 🥲 (That could be the summary of this whole debate…)

[@Reeve-vf6zk]

you don't understand what populism means

[@SherryMason]

Listened to this podcast on a LONG car ride where I had time to waste. Only part that was worthwhile was time spent admiring Simon's incredible patience and tolerance (not to mention his wisdom and knowledge of science).

[@julia.no.X]

I disagree.

[@jeffreehealingwaters8169]

Run the studies on N1 on your self you know your body better than a scientist or doctor does

[@julia.no.X]

@jeffreehealingwaters8169 Couldn't have put it better!

[@nickgoldring1446]

@SherryMason Simon Hill is a talented amateur, nothing more.

[@Innately_heal]

I can't wait until society really learns how much studies and science data are funded and manipulated by Big Pharma, Agriculture and Sugar.... to keep everyone repeat customers and sick. I'm on neither side but I think the evidence of people healing and their stories, far outweigh a world that has increased in size and illness as more veg and grains are pushed. I personally love veg and salad, they were my main source of food, until I gradually realised they were the source of my AI and pain. So either may be right, but my story is, meat doesn't cause me pain, so that's my choice. Listen to your body, really listen, it will let you know what foods cause you discomfort and pain and eventually disease may turn up with severe symptoms, youll go to a Dr to find out why, but really its the body telling you if the foods you've been eating has harmed your body. On an end note, the debates ive seen so far between plant based and high ormeat based, the plant based are far more highly strung and agitated, the meat based, very calm. Great debate ❤

[@carly.taylor42]

debate of the season is right!! thanks for all you do behind the scenes to organize such interesting conversations, this was an amazing listen 🔥

[@HushV]

Spend a day in your average community grocery store. The story I see is shopping carts overloaded with soda, chips, cookies, pizza, ice cream, crackers, donuts, etc! It’s the VERY small minority who have mounds of fresh produce/plants/nuts seeds coming down the conveyor belt! Thanks Simon for advocating for our health and a vibrant lifespan! ❤

[@laurelthomsen]

Oh yeah, soooo many chips! It’s not very PC, but whenever I’m traveling and have to shop at a regular supermarket I make it game while I’m waiting in line to look at the conveyor belt or carts of the people behind me, and before I look at them, guess what condition they might be in. You are what you eat after all. Besides chips I see people loading up on frozen pizzas and random other frozen dinners, huge hunks of cheese, boxes of sugar frosting covered pastries, cereal (and not the high fiber type), gallons of milk, white bread, tubs of ice cream, meat, eggs, and sugary soft drinks. IF they have any vegetables there, they are carrots, potatoes, or frozen peas. IF they have any fruit, they are bananas. And most time these poor folks are obese and unhealthy looking.

[@aspreedacore]

darn it I like crackers lol

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Dr Kiltz wasn't able to answer several basic questions. I've gone back through the conversation and summarised them below. 1- You are blaming foods that people are NOT eating for the chronic disease burden. Make it make sense? 2 - You say that people are generating too much fear about food. Yet sugar is toxic and dairy is poison? Make it make sense? 3 - You say that you don't know what's right or wrong, it's all just a story. Yet you said several times my position and the science is wrong. If you don't know what's right or wrong, how do you have such deep convictions that what I am saying is wrong? 4 - You are blaming the dietary guidelines for poor health. Yet 90+% of the population do not get close to adhering to them. Is it the guidelines that are to blame or the food environment and socio-economic disparities that makes it near impossible for much of the population to adhere to them? 5 - You say people shouldn't trust the science because it's propaganda. It's bought and paid for. Yet you, and most influencers online, generate lots of income by saying that you have the answer. Does the same bias not exist? 6 - You say fibre is increasing risk of colorectal cancer. What data supports that? Can you share it with us because the biggest review of RCTS and observational trials by Reynolds et al shows the very opposite (more fibre = less risk of colorectal cancer). pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30638909/ 7 - You believe what you see in your clinic is representative of the USA. Do you understand what selection bias is? If Dr Kiltz was able to directly answer any of these, without going on tangents (i.e talking about lady bugs), we may have had a more fruitful conversation.

[@SigmaLigma1]

I wouldn’t waste your time with these comments. This guy is clearly trying to sell supplements and ride on the “animal-based” trend for as long as he can. Guaranteed when there is another diet fad he will retract his statements and move along to the next big thing to sell more stuff. He is a bad faith grifter.

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@SigmaLigma1 This x 500

[@donaldanderson6578]

Simon, these people don't care about truth, they have no epistemic standard, it's all about contrarianism and heterodoxy. I appreciate your effort but only law/accountability will make them change their tune.

[@breezyg6722]

If he said STORY one more time I Swear !!!!!! 😅

[@breezyg6722]

Oh my gosh Im getting more and more frustrated lol why is kiltz going back and for between this WOKE hippie view like " I creat you and you create me " and yet Simon is like " bro....I'm talking facts here and you're just trying to talk pow wow and smoke herb and paint a picture of my STORY " 😂

[@LiftingVeganLogic]

Kiltz is deeply struggling with trying to maintain this “embody humility” persona while simultaneously making very absolute claims.

[@rizzosurfing1]

Please do a video on this. Thanks

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@rizzosurfing1 I second this.

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@LiftingVeganLogic Please get someone to take the bet. Think of all the good you can do with ONE BILLION DOLLARS (dr. Evil reference)

[@NGT4LIFE]

He's speaking facts. Animal fats etc and low or no carbs is a perfect diet for a human. A vegan diet is one of the worst. I've never seen a malnourished carnivore. And carnivores don't need supplements. However I've seen many malnourished vegans and all vegans need to take supplements.

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@NGT4LIFE Would you like to bet a few million dollars on that? I would like to move to a bigger home.

[@olivertrumanjr9556]

“The best evidence is these conversations”…. Riggght. Kiltz got smoked

[@lewiscooke5511]

Whilst this episode perhaps didn’t have the intended impact ( a decent and honest conversation, done in good faith) it did highlight one thing- that so many within the carnivore community just aren’t capable of having g those types of conversations and are even less capable of providing anything that even remotely looks like sound data, to Support it. Kiltz is an awful example of someone who is stepping out of their lane and in this episode alone has been shown up for the clueless charlatan he is. Simon has the patience of a saint for having to sit there and be faced with utter nonsense like that.

[@chrisjellis1161]

Simon displayed patience and respect even in the face of some absurd reasoning, constant emotional appeals and stories full of red herrings. The best part of this was the grace he showed Dr Klitz is generally lacking on both sides of the discourse. Ultimately, although it was hard to follow at times with so many anecdotal tales and never addressing any questions directly, the sheer lack of both preparation and substance in his argument left it feeling hollow and unconvincing, more like a collection of loosely connected stories than a coherent case worth considering!

[@AnneMB955]

Biased

[@chrisjellis1161]

@@AnneMB955 which part? What did you think of the debate?

[@Cenot4ph]

He's a vegan prick thats unethical by stating vegetables are human food. Nutritional science is pure corruption People need to get educated instead of indoctrinated by this cult and the pharmaceutical and food industry

[@djwhiteflour]

I have not watched much of it yet but I already wish there was a split-screen Simon-cam for when the other guy was talking. 😂

[@gaildupuis2967]

Stay tuned for the scientific peer reviewed study, etc. etc. on carnivore data and tons of anecdotal stories representing a quick health response under one year for almost all of this stories I’ve heard.

[@reneepelletier3021]

I love Simon. Personally, I’m thriving on a plant based diet - this way of eating restored my fertility and keeps me healthy and happy 😊 Thanks for this great episode, Ellen💞

[@faith.W]

@@bobthebuilder9416 what do you mean by "supposed to consume"

[@PostFinasterideSyndromeNorway]

@@faith.Wsince vegan diets lack 15 micronutrients. Better have some meat

[@Psartz]

​@@PostFinasterideSyndromeNorway carnivore diet is not complete diet.You need vitamins biotin (B7), folate,A, C, D, E,copper,calcium and magnesium . Check chronometer none are present in adequate amounts in meat or steak; some are entirely missing.

[@Psartz]

​@@PostFinasterideSyndromeNorway on plant based diet just have to take b12.

[@thegoodguyalwayswins]

@@Psartz There are plants with b12 too, take duckweed or water lentils for example. Unwashed vegetables have b12. Unfiltered water (don't recommend drinking it) has b12 too. Some seaweeds have b12 as well.

[@wisdomstable8143]

Simon deserves a medal for his patience and trying to inject evidence based information into the conversation. Dr Kiltz seems like a nice guy, but his word salad was completely nonsensical and completely unsupported by evidence.

[@alejandropacello8188]

Simon deserves to read some real science true studes, scientific papers and research Made independently and NOT founded by any food company, drug company, pharmaceutical company or goverment company like all the studies he cites. There are just bullshit like the one made by Ancel Keys that ended un killing millons of people . And also look at the evidence of what humans have mostly been eaten for 3.6 millons of years. It's not plants. Dr Kiltz gave him a very good lesson and I hope Simon went somewhere to eat a big steak after this conversation.

[@infinitum5425]

WTF! Dr Klitz is a practising physician with a ton of empirical mediacl evidence backed up by decades of expertise - your plant boy " physiotherapist" (wtf!!) has read a few lifestyle books , picked up a bit of human biology & thinks he knows better?? How silly you are .

[@sylvainbroucke53]

That is what I was going to say. The doctor would be a nice Guru but terrible scientist.

[@dennisward43]

New York University nutrition professor Marion Nestle began informally tracking studies funded by food and beverage companies, as well as trade groups, in 2015. Her research uncovered 168 such studies in that year alone, and of those, 156 showed biased results that favored the sponsor’s interests, she told the Guardian.

[@zamfirtoth6441]

Kilts can't support his theories with science because the medical industry won't fund studies on carnivore. He has no choice but to refer to anecdotes. The anecdotes have become STAGGERING in number, by many ,many carnivore Drs. That are experiencing the same benefits time after time. Do you even realize how many type 2 diabetics that switched to carnivore have completely eliminated their need for exogenous insulin ? And keep in mind, the mainstream view is that this is an irreversible condition that you will suffer from for the rest of your life. Simon's view is that the mainstream stream already has all the answers, and to question it is silly. To believe the mainstream after the events of the last few years is insane.

[@audreygullotto5953]

So grateful to Simon for the work he does and his incredible patience in this video.

[@ticosplinter]

Simon did amazing, wish Dr. Kiltz would actually answer his questions.. 🙄

[@1timbarrett]

Both humans have their typically human flaws! 😮

[@equatorialjourney4478]

Dr K answered more than S & at least had the courtesy to look at him when discoursing . A FAR more balanced , objective professional in every sense of the word . And I knew of neither guy before watching and am neither vegan nor full carnivore so have no bias . I eat whole foods ( plant and animal ) , IF , no sugar or refined carbs & am super healthy medication free senior . As a non biased adjudicator I enjoyed Dr K’s approach and experience

[@hclyrics]

@@equatorialjourney4478 Is this a joke? Kiltz didn't have a leg to stand on. 😂

[@adyashabhanja]

​@@equatorialjourney4478Are you kidding?? Simon was well prepared with evidence and Robert only had anecdotes, he didn't answer a single question properly.

[@equatorialjourney4478]

@ OMG ………what’s w the ridiculous buzzword “ anecdotes” all the commenters are making . New word ?? . They BOTH used anecdotes and S far more than Dr K . Starting w his father ; then his mother’s hyperthyroidism ; then filled in those brackets w abundant more . At least the Doc agreed that anecdotes are just that and that we, collectively, still have a long way to go . His clinical experience in fertility is quite significant in this discussion

[@Clearbluesea-g9v]

45 minutes in and its so frustrating I think Kiltz is confused. He is telling stories and not answering a single question clearly. He may need to change his diet so he can focus :) Bless you Simon for not losing it.

[@dragan176]

For real. For Kiltz, this isn't a debate, he's preaching

[@matchafitness]

But in the end we know about glycation, we know about lectins, oxalates, phytic acid and we know that animal that eats grass are getting energy from saturated fat after digestion, and we also know that streptococ mutants are eating carbs and form acid that is causing cavities, mouth pH below 5,5 is only way to get cavity and also almost all fruits are acidic and the few ones that aren’t are high in sugars so in the end you will have cavities unless you’re notvisiting your dentist more often than your automechanic

[@dragan176]

@@matchafitness I can say, as a dentist, you will not get cavities from eating fruits in itself. Teeth can remineralise to some extent. The thing that matters is frequency of carb intake, not which foods you eat necessarily

[@matchafitness]

@@dragan176 is there any danger if we consume fruits on daily basis, let’s say one piece of fruit each day after lunch and breakfast and dinner only meat and veggies or eating fruits daily is to often by your opinion?

[@dragan176]

@@matchafitness If you eat fruit after your meal, it will have next to no impact on your teeth. If you snack on them between meals, it can, but the most important thing is brushing your teeth with correct technique every day and a lot of people don't do that

[@cinapanina]

@theproofwithsimonhill Your work, spreading true information, is extremely important! Never stop!✨

[@RaingerHaslam]

Anybody who says “their grandmother” over “scientist trying to prove things” is an absolutely unhinged hierarchical ranking of evidence

[@Nancymai_]

“I Couldn’t read but I magically became a doctor” - Dr kiltz 🏃🏻‍♀️

[@vwlisa]

😂

[@infinitum5425]

WTF! Dr Klitz is a practising physician with a ton of empirical medical evidence backed up by decades of expertise - your plant boy " physiotherapist" (wtf!!) has read a few lifestyle books , picked up a bit of human biology & thinks he knows better?? How silly you are with the plant toxins saturating your synapses.

[@CharlieFader]

@@infinitum5425he also has a masters in nutrition and that is the topic of discussion. The old man is demonstrably clueless about nutrition.

[@fractaltv5209]

For real haha

[@cazzawazzadingdong5139]

Hillarious comment. Kinda reminds me of the episode of Mr Bean as Dr Bean the heart surgeon🤣.. Thank god kiltz never "studied to become a heart surgeon. "Well in my "story" this valve doesn't matter"

[@CheetahNuggs]

Please do this same debate with someone who is more adequately prepared to defend meat on a scientific level. This felt like an adult talking to a teenager, and while a fun watch, only left me with more questions.

[@1taxibill]

@@CheetahNuggs what questions do you have now?

[@CheetahNuggs]

@1taxibill a mariade of things that only a doctor or researcher can answer. Heres an example, how can we say with any certaintity that fiber will increase someomes odds of colon cancer. At a population level, what evidence is there of this?

[@1taxibill]

@CheetahNuggs cancer lives only if you provide sugars to those cells. Carbs => sugars=> cancer food. But I'm not a dr.

[@CheetahNuggs]

@1taxibill so thats hyper reductive, not necessarily untrue. But non of that answers my questions at all

[@Psartz]

@@1taxibill yea of course you are not doctor.yet making unscientific claims.

[@daniellestamford7250]

This was so frustrating to listen to. I was so excited for you to finally have Simon on and I was disappointed that he had to spend the entire time basically explaining logic and science to someone who was supposed to debate a carnivore diet. I was hoping to gain more information on the carnivore diet factually and see Simon's response to help myself in conversation, but this was just so hard to get through,. Dr. Kiltz didn't have a single sentence in the entire over two hours that he would stand behind...or that made any sense. He constantly contradicted himself and I wish Simon was debating someone who has passion for the carnivore diet.

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

Then listen to Professor Bart Kay extremely educated and has actually worked as a scientist and written or coauthored hundreds of papers and publications. Far more educated than Simon. I believe that is why Simon will not debate Professor Kay.

[@wendywitchner7401]

@@AliceFarmer-bg4dw Dr Bart Kay. A guy who spews vitriol and cuss words👌🤦‍♀️

[@charlesfuchs]

You must be fat

[@wellthi]

​@@AliceFarmer-bg4dwBart just dissing people and mumble. Or just promote constantly he's stuff instead of giving real argument, he's unbearable, that why his channel don't grow

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

@ could be I don’t listen to his channel. I listen to him when he is a guest speaker on other podcasts

[@Freebirdfran]

I hope these encounters don’t discourage Simon from continuing to fight against all the disinformation out there. His voice is needed now more than ever. Everyday I thank my lucky stars that I came across The Proof, Simon Hill’s podcast. I used to follow some of these so called nutrition experts, that is, until I saw what expertise actually means. And there are many millions more like me out there who are desperate for education and when presented with two arguments, one backed by data and science and the other based on anecdotal evidence or personal experience, trust me, people will listen to the facts. They just need access to the information, and Simon is facilitating that, and slowly changing lives and changing the world. Simon, please never stop sharing your knowledge with the world and thank you for your integrity and courage in the face of lies, pseudo science, and alternative facts.

[@chuckv8838]

I disagree. I listen to Simon all the time, but to debate a guy as ridiculous as Kiltz benefits no one. And won’t convince Kiltz’s listeners cause they obviously can’t follow a logical argument. Just gives broader voice to nuts like Kiltz.

[@ja_drugoi]

I REALLY would love to see a debate between Bart Kay and Simon Hill.

[@Pascal270]

Hill is not man enough...

[@stephengeddis7364]

Bart would run circles around him

[@johnl764]

Bart is good at studies and remembering all the numbers. I would love to see that also.

[@johnferguson3918]

Haha will never happen. They pick and choose who they’re willing to debate.

[@robinsmit1632]

Bart Kay is a clown

[@michaelbrodie5942]

Kiltz; I'm a surgeon, I'm a scientist-presents anecdotes

[@trishmarck7798]

Right. Stories are just that

[@bdmenne]

Big grain, Big Sugar, Big Processed Industrial Complex appreciates your unDYING support.

[@michaelbrodie5942]

@@bdmenne They're all dwarfed in size compared to the meat and dairy industry. The biggest consumer of grains in the world is livestock consuming approx 80% of grain grown. So it's more likely you support those big scary industries more than myself, As I don't consume much of the things you mentioned other than whole grains and as much of that as I can from small local growers. And just because an industry is large doesn't make it bad.

[@bdmenne]

@ There are millions of products that can be made in processing grain & sugar, so I argue their business is much much bigger, but Big Media, Big Science, Big Gov. is all paid to not look at how massive the plant industry has in our world. Palm oil, corn for ethanol, animal feed, refined flour. The chip, cookie, cereal, candy, bread, pasta, fruit, alcohol aisles dwarf the meat cases. I doubt meat & milk is as versatile. But it is still processed often: heated, homogenized, having processed veg/grain added to it. I agree that majority of grains/carbs/fiber/sugars are forced on herbivores to eat instead of a diverse pasture/insect/solar rich diet. I mostly eat pasture raised animals. I don’t feel safe with franken-foods: industrial oils-plant fats, grains & fruits & animals that Whole Institutions allow. The least Frankenstein foods are the animals as their nutritive profile is nearly identical to their ancestral origins. Plants on the other hand are unrecognizable in appearance or substance. The sweetest fruit 10,000 years ago was equal to that of a basic carrot.

[@bdmenne]

@@michaelbrodie5942 oh no, some one censored my message I sent you. Big KZbin, is the Scariest of them all. Silencing people with Dissenting thoughts. Will this go through. I’m anti feedlot carb/grain fed cattle, btw. Merry Christmas

[@bethra.flowers]

❤ Simon is being so humble here and Dr. Kilts is being so resistant to looking at the scientific truth. 'Storyfication' is the actual problem driving the confusion of dietary optimization. I WAS 250# and had metabolic syndrome with diabetes at the beginning of 2020 and reversed this condition with a whole plant food diet. I'm now in the best health and fitness of my life at 51 years and 160#. I will continue my Plant dominant diet for the rest of my life as I lift weights, do calisthenics , dance, roller skate, hike and run.

[@gillgarner5280]

From vegan to carnivore. I can confirm carnivore is making me insanely well. I was vegan for 5 years, vegetarian for 10, those 15 years were my worst state of health throughout my life so far. I felt like giving up, I was so tired and riddled with pain. Sugar is sugar, where ever it comes from. I will not eat sugar, plants and fibre ever again. Once you know you know ❤

[@KenWang2]

Yes the devil promises you the world on Carnivore Diet then quickly takes it away

[@karmicbreath]

What did your blood work show when you were vegan?

[@k95525]

From carnivore to vegan.feeling healthier than ever.

[@notorioustampaton]

@ you were never vegan.

[@hoangling4344]

I have had a similar experience. I was on a plant based diet and completely miserable and fat. Almost immediately, I felt better on a carnivore diet and after six months, I was completely cured and lost weight to look trim again. I have boundless happiness and energy. Couldn't be better. I've been on it two years now, my friend has been doing it for four. It's wonderful.

[@SweetPotatoTyler]

Simon: “give me your very best evidence for why plants cause our leading diseases” Kiltz: “What’s a goiter?” I am on the floor laughing right now 😂😂😂

[@Hikari7775]

I lost it when I heard that, I just could not believe what I was hearing 😂😂 But it's very representative of the whole debate.

[@jim5jim5jim5]

Goiters are caused by goiterogenic plant foods. I had to explain this? 😅

[@jimgold2550]

Time stamp?

[@karalittleton507]

😂😂😂 So true!

[@jim5jim5jim5]

@SweetPotatoTyler It was a rhetorical question.

[@TheStrengthofEmpty]

⁠@TheProofWithSimonHill My jaw was on the floor for most of this podcast when Dr Kilz spoke. You gotta be kidding me. Unreal. Thank you for trying your best to keep the science in the conversation. Long term evidence is great. This was just insane.

[@EarmuffHugger]

I started eating fatty meat & ditched all plants & my body odor is totally gone! What does this mean?

[@739jep]

That you had a shower 🤷‍♂️

[@iwnunn7999]

Means u started bathing

[@VerySeriousUser]

Happened to me too. I rarely have any spices but some bring it back within a day for me even if they are all in very small amounts.

[@eoinfelim]

Probably less to detox. That is just a guess though.

[@JeffC26131]

Carnivore naysayers would simply write off your extraordinary experience as just another “story.”

[@listeninghere]

Simon, you stood your ground when Kiltz slid everywhere, dodging any attempt to get clear. What a challenge!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Thank you.

[@gioxpfr]

Yep, he was totally wrong but he did stand his ground. I think they call that stubbornness.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

@ totally wrong on what? Can you be specific

[@tamflintham7943]

I haven’t listened yet but can say dammmmmm this discussion looks intriguing. I would have loved to see Dr Paul Saladino taking on this discussion. I’m ex vegan of 12 years now animal based and seriously healed a lot of my issues. I ruined my gut health being vegan. To the point I had an all over body candida rash that lasted for 6 years. I tried literally everything I could while (ethical) vegan to heal from this but it eventually got so bad I couldn’t sleep because my skin felt like it was crawling. I even tried raw vegan to see is that helped. (Note: I was never a junk food vegan). I finally was desperate enough to introduce grassfed grass finished beef into my diet and within a week my rash disappeared with all symptoms and I felt like a human again. It was so incredibly hard to do and I felt so so so much shame. I would cry myself to sleep because of the guilt. I remember watching Ellen’s videos of what they are and was so jealous because it looked incredible but I knew eating that way all the time just damaged me. I had to work through so much to be able to get to the place I’m at now. Not saying this is for everyone but I healed my entire body and have lost 20+ kgs healthily going animal based. Can’t wait to see what these 2 have to say.

[@theellenfisherpodcast]

both simon and I asked Paul Saladino many times to come on for this debate and he would not come on my show.

[@tamflintham7943]

@ oh no!!! That’s so sad to hear. Thankyou for replying to my comment. I’ve been following you for years and i thoroughly LOVE all of your content, especially these podcasts.

[@caterinadc5567]

@@theellenfisherpodcast Did you consider asking on Dr. Shawn Baker? I'd think he would be the go-to Carnivore likely to present the case well in a debate context

[@1taxibill]

​@@caterinadc5567I agree and Dr. Bikman is a genius.

[@caterinadc5567]

​ @1taxibill Dr. Paul Mason also gives fabulous research-heavy presentations which seem very scientifically sound (though I don't know if he's got the field hours yet to jump into live debate the way Shawn can)

[@laurlat4449]

I just finished listening to the whole thing. Dr. Kilz is unprofessional and should not be giving ANYONE nutritional advice based on a story. It is ridiculous that people actually take him seriously after hearing him on this podcast.

[@imdg-t2d]

Who thought i was a good idea to invite Dr. Kiltz to the discussion?

[@bbbbbbbbbbbbbb392]

Ellen thought he's less negative than other animal based docs. Kiltz playing word games was so much worse

[@planetetrangere]

Everytime I watch these debates, I want to eat more plants as the carnivore camp does not have any science to back their claims.

[@jackhiggs269]

I actually can’t fathom how someone can graduate with a university degree and cite their grandmother as their strongest evidence. All these carnivore quacks should become novelists and stay far away communicating science.

[@StarcraftSwarm]

""I don't know what a PUFA is"

[@julienfroidevaux1143]

@@jackhiggs269 When they don't have science on their side what else can they do ?

[@youbeever]

@@jackhiggs269 So do you think the plant based community has "science" on their side? I haven't watched that debate yet so can't attest to the debating skills/knowledge of that carnivore doctor. However, if you believe all those who support the low carb/keto/carnivore lifestyle are "quacks" that just unfortunately shows your own ignorance of actual science. Not all clinicians who support the inclusion of unprocessed animals based food in the human diet are able to demonstrate the facts in a coherent way. That doesn't mean there's no science to demonstrate our position. One doesn't have to be a strict carnivore to be healthy. That's not the point. The complete exclusion of animal based food as supported by the plant based community (the real quacks of the story imho) is however the issue at hand. Likewise, as an experienced clinical scientist myself, I also can't fathom how those so called "experts" can graduate with a university degree and cite "plant based" and "optimal human health" in the same sentence. I am assuming you support (just as the likes of Simon Hill) a purely plant based nutrition (veganism) as a healthier alternative for humans right? My bad if I misunderstood . But If that's the case, you do realise that veganism is FAR MORE extreme than the carnivore diet don't you? Have a look at my comments above. You can't miss them as they are the longest here. Feel free to give your opinion. I'll respond as soon as I can.

[@kjettern]

The only real science is the science you do yourself. Everyone should try both a plant-based and an animal-based diet and choose the one that is best for them. I did this, and found that an animal-based diet was best for me. I got more energy, slept better, farted less, and gained more muscles after working out. But I have vegan friends who have found a plant-based diet to work better for them. Who am I to judge them and tell them to eat meat if it makes them feel worse?

[@vaiostevenk241]

@jackhiggs269 time of the month is it for you Jackie???

[@mikaelajasonnn3]

Interesting points! It’s amazing how much misinformation is out there. 'Health and Beauty Mastery' by Julian Bannett totally changed my perspective on what we’re told about health and wellness. Highly recommend for anyone who wants the full story!

[@MikeW-t6l]

totally agree

[@Psartz]

​@@bobthebuilder9416Humans are not carnivores, Carnivores/ omnivores sleep 16-18 hours a day, Humans sleep 6-8 hours a day Carnivores/ omnivores have claws, sharp canines, short & pointed incisors, blade shaped molars to rip into flesh straight from a live animal Humans have no claws, blunt canines, long & flat incisors, flat molars for grinding plant foods Carnivores have their lower jaw embedded inside of the top, no side to side or forward movement Humans have their upper jaw due on the bottom, have side to side and forward mobility Carnivores/ omnivores have a simpler digestive system/ 4× shorter intestinal tract, which they use to shit out food very soon after eating it Humans have a complex digestive system, 4× longer intestinal tract digestion & excretion happens much later Carnivores/ omnivores have acidic saliva, acidic urine, 10-100× stronger hydrochloric stomach acid needed for digesting meat Humans have alkaline saliva, alkaline urine weaker stomach acid Carnivores/ omnivores secrete the enzyme uricase, which metabolises uric acid in meat Humans do not produce uricase Carnivores/ most omnivores produce their own Vitamin C Humans need to get their vitamin C from eating foods containing it Carnivores/ omnivores have a far higher microbial tolerance Humans would die from the botulinum toxin, but Carnivores safely digest it. Carnivores eating a high fat diet stay energetic, healthy Humans eating a high fat diet become obese, lazy, & diseased Carnivores/ omnivores do not see in full-colour scale Humans can see in full-colour scale, to determine ripe from unripe fruits Carnivores/ Omnivores sweat from their tongue Humans sweat from pores all over their body Carnivore females have multiple teats for nursing litters (several babies) Human females have dual breasts for nursing 1-2 offspring Carnivores eat their meat raw, through fur/ skin, lapping up the nutrient-rich blood Humans physically cannot eat meat raw, let alone eating a live animal, let alone drinking the blood Carnivores shear & swallow their food without chewing Humans don't shear, they extensively chew their food Carnivores have acid saliva without ptyalin (carb-digesting enzymes) Humans have alkaline saliva with ptyalin Carnivores do not require fiber to stimulate peristalsis Humans do require fiber to stimulate peristalsis Carnivores metabolise large amounts of cholesterol & vitamin A Humans metabolise small amounts of cholesterol & vitamin A Carnivores intestine from 1.5-3× body length Human intestine 9× body length Carnivores have a short, smooth alkaline colon Humans have a long, sacculated acid colon Carnivores complete digestion in 2-4 hours Humans compete digestion in 12-18 hours Carnivores brain chemistry is fueled by fats & protein Humans brain chemistry is fueled by glycogen (from carbohydrates) Carnivores have a complex 6 lobes ljver, liver proportionately larger than humans to digest large amount of fat and protein and detoxification. Humans have 4 lobe liver, proportionately relatively small. Carnivores can't convert short-chain fatty acids into long-chain fatty acids Humans can Carnivores are 100% covered with hair Humans have pores with minimal hair Carnivore intestine allow for meat to pass through quickly, but human intestines are not designed for meat, & it's more difficult to pass meat through, leading to blockage of meat, constipation & disease. A human "meat-eater" eats animals because they are available in abstract forms of"meat". Meat-eaters aren't Carnivores or predators If you want to disprove this reality you should catch & eat an animal alive and film it. Historically people have eaten animals: A) to survive/ they didn't have plant foods as an option. No access to agriculture, hunter-gatherers. B) because they are rich, have a choice, choose to eat animals. C) because culture has normalised eating animals even though we aren't carnivores or omnivores and have serious diseases and health issues long term from eating animals. Eating animals isn't necessary nutritionally, it's fundamentally deadly. If we had the systems for properly consuming animals we would eat them raw, but you'd have illnesses from that wouldn't you? Eating them cooked doesn't remove the reality of illness & disease either. Instead of raw consumption of animals we skin the animal, cut the flesh in portions that can be held in your hand, and cook it with plant seasonings to "eat like our ancestors did". Those same Ancestors would be disappointed at you falling for the consumerism scam companies use to profit off of your ignorance, then off of your bad health with pills, surgeries, medical procedures. They would know that they didn't eat meat because they liked it or they wanted to, they ate meat because they had no other choice. As for people living in Civilisation later on, for a long time the rich (%1) were the ones regularly eating meat as a luxury, while the peasants ate grains, fruits, vegetables. The rich always died sooner than the peasants in terms of life expectancy from diseases developed from eating dead flesh (meat), animal breast milk (dairy), & chicken periods (eggs) Cultures around the world with great "cultural food" are holding back the people that follow these cultures from progressing as a people, by trapping them in short-lived, disease-filled lives of 50-70 years. You might be here for a good time, not a long time, but some of us appreciate having good health, no disease, no joint pain, good gut health, regular excretions, no smelly farts/ body odour & a healthy brain from adequate nutrition. For the human body, animal flesh is highly acidic, fattening, cholesterol-laden, artery-clogging, lymph-clotting, mucus-forming, constipating, difficult to digest, full of worms/ parasites/ bacteria/ metabolic waste/ hormones all of which breed disease.

[@karmicbreath]

lol this is such a scam comment it's hilarious.

[@Psartz]

​@@karmicbreath These are bots, mate. They have zero other comments when you click on their profiles. It's crazy to see the lengths these people will go to spread scare-mongering.

[@Psartz]

​@@karmicbreath above two comments both are bots.

[@bethra.flowers]

Wow Dr. Kiltz is not letting Simon finish his points! This sounds like a Religion for him.

[@sidsnyder8043]

So, you think the high priest of Veganism is not a religion ? Veganism in America was started by the 7th Day Adventist, that didn't believe in eating meat. Tell me the religious group that pushes an animal diet ? Not a good agrument.

[@denisea.9033]

Thank you for this!! I’ve actually been wanting to see this happen between Simon Hill & Dr. Anthony Chaffee for a long time but this is great too.

[@The_Goodhearted]

This was absolutely painful to listen to. My hats off to Simon for the immense patience shown.

[@gailmullard9854]

The Dr makes a good point that most of the science is funded by corporations and pharma - in the UK Tim Spector spoke out against cereals and Kellogs quickly offered him a research opportunity - its actually v sad

[@The_Goodhearted]

@@gailmullard9854even the stuff that isn’t paid off mean f*** all to the doctor is my issue

[@The_Goodhearted]

@@gailmullard9854 there’s a large beef and dairy industry too…

[@mobydog99]

​​@@gailmullard9854no it wasn't a good point, because it was a meta analysis of 150M subjects, absolutely no way to know if there was bias and in what direction, and he said it anyway, knowing zero about what Simon was referring to. He had lots of fancy words tho "goitrogenic" lol 😂

[@davidadamashvili2894]

Ok, let's ask yourselves a rational question, after losing tons of inflammation and weight after elimination diets, would you eat broccoli and leaf every day or steak? I would 100% go for steak.

[@JeffC26131]

💯👍🏻🥩💪🏻

[@blackpalacemusic]

I eat fruits, nuts, beans, grains, tubers, corms, stems, bulbs and leaves. Eating only steak is boring and you still have to rub it down with plants for it to taste good.

[@blacksa-tang2488]

That not true and you know it meat taste amazing, especially the more high quality it is​@@blackpalacemusic

[@shan6736]

Leaves and broccoli? The vegan diet should be filled with combinations of (organic)veggies, fruits and berries, legumes, seeds, nuts and butters, whole grain breads and rice, buckwheat, tubers and so on. Think thick sweet potato pea soup, whole grain toast with almond butter, with a side salad filled with garden veggies and seeds. That's a better representation. The bodies of the animals most people eat are injected with added testosterone, estrogen and antibiotics, which then enters the human body upon consumption....and look... as America deals with surges of hormonal breast cancer in women, prostate cancer in men, and breast development in both boys and men...

[@1timbarrett]

Good on you for misspelling the plural of ‘leaf’. That is perfect coming from someone who has healed significantly on meat. 👍 Three cheers for steak…! 🥩

[@mikerudd4943]

I listened to the entire pod. I have listened to both men a lot. I myself have been 95% carnivore (18 months) and continue to tweak my own path .I have stage 4. So what works for me may not or likely will not for others. For me carnivore has eliminated all of my conditions besides my cancer and I still have hope for that. I have listened to many doctors and researchers over the last 2 to 3 years on podcasts and i have designed my own path that CONTINUES to evolve and change for ME. Plants , besides my tea and coffee are not part of that experience. With 1% exceptions. I strive for my meat food to be 75 to 80% fat by calories.

[@jac9366]

No I couldn't make it to the end, 2hr 29mins Dr K turned me right off, iwas fighting against the urge to turn it off the whole time, however kept hoping something more interesting would emerge.... I'm only human... I need to preserve my sanity...

[@cookielemons]

Broccoli is the leading cause of disease? This guy is special.

[@AnneMB955]

Broccoli 😝

[@TheLeopard91]

did you know broccoli is man-made? think about it

[@888jucu]

@@TheLeopard91And probably so is your dog, just think about it.

[@Noctua07]

Ahh so that is why i never liked broccoli for so long. And why I almost choked to death eating broccoli a couple of times. My life is saved now that I know the truth. :D /Sarcasm

[@srikkdoc]

The following factors raise your risk for peptic ulcers: Drinking too much alcohol. Regular use of aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, or other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) Smoking cigarettes or chewing tobacco. Being very ill, such as being on a breathing machine. Radiation treatments. Stress.

[@bencobley4929]

Moral of the story, stories are not scientific studies.

[@bobthebuilder9416]

Don’t like stories? No worries! Here’s some non-fiction! >1 ph balance of our stomachs is 8x outside range of herbivores, for example our gorilla cousins. (Our ph level matches other carnivorous animals such as cheetas, wolves, lions, etc.) >2 size of our intestines in ratio to our body is 8x smaller than herbivores, such as our cousins, gorillas. (Our intestine size to body ratio matches that of cheetas wolves lions etc). This means we need higher energy food, as we physically cannot carry even an 1/8th of for example what our cousins, gorillas, can carry. >3 we have a throwing arm that, if you believe in evolution, was developed through thousands and thousands of years of hunting with spears. If you believe in God he gave us the throwing arm to feed ourselves. >4 people say why do we have herbivore teeth. Because we killed our prey with spears and overtime mostly developed our front k-9 teeth through this process. >5 our jaws physically struggle to move side to side, compared to herbivores, such as our cousins, gorillas. >6 through anthropology we see nitrogen levels (I think; cant remember what compound it was but I think its nitrogen) are 8x outside range of herbivores, and, surprise surprise, matches that of cheetas, lions, wolves, etc. >7 due to the ph level of our stomach being where it is, humans physically cannot ferment fruit & vegetables properly, compared to, once again, our closest cousins, gorillas. I spent 10 minutes writing this when I should have been spending my energy on work. Hope you’re not wasting my time or money but here are 7 facts that I could name off the top of my head. You don’t need to be hand held. Do your own research or suffer the consequences. Anything I said should not have been new because those are all things you could have researched yourself. Stop wasting other people’s time, be an adult, and use google & learn how biochemistry works. Or at least learn the basic arguments you can find if you look hard enough in about 15 minutes, if biochem is too hard. You don’t need a masters in biochem - maybe you can find a 15 minute 101 biology course focused around mammals. “Source?!” Bro. You had never even heard of those 7 things before I told you. I am not your teacher. I am not getting paid to inform you. You are making people feel bad for you & so they waste their time & energy trying to save you. I am here wasting my time with the hope that you will be an adult and do your own research, so that you stop wasting hundreds of people’s time who have good intentions & want to help you. I am here for those hundreds of people wasting their time on you. I’m not here for you. People need to stop thinking they need to be handheld in order to learn.

[@odrowsybox5175]

Thank you regardless​@@bobthebuilder9416

[@crashnburnband]

@@bobthebuilder9416 Those are all good facts, but I will add that it's a misconception that we have herbivore teeth. Actually, we don't move our teeth side to side to grind plants; we have scissor teeth to cut meat like carnivores.

[@sarahfox3312]

Science is so corrupted. Just look at the conflicts of interest declared

[@Patrick-yc3tf]

but but... people love stories and personal experiences... lol it's crazy, they are coping hard seeing the comments here

[@leeheemeng3799]

Yo ,I literally had to pause my phone when Dr K mention his grandmother is the top of pyramid for his evidence

[@wallowinthehallows]

I developed an autoimmune disease from a plant-based diet. I got sicker and sicker while eating that way. I’ve reversed my autoimmune disease eating carnivore and staying ketogenic. Best of luck to all of you on a vegan diet.

[@Dan16673]

N=1

[@wallowinthehallows]

@ N=many. Heard of the ketogenic diet? It’s the most researched diet in the world.

[@Dan16673]

@wallowinthehallows show me long term outcomes

[@Insight-music]

Keto is a cult. No studies prove it’s healthy long term.

[@wendywitchner7401]

🌱💪🏼 since 1976 and thriving! More energy and stamina than many people younger than me! I’m 67 - start my day with 2 sets of 50 push ups before several other workouts and rarely sit during the day!

[@laurengianna9944]

A friend of mine tried and tried for years to have a baby and couldn’t, she went carnivore and within a month she became pregnant and has a beautiful little girl named Isabel ♥️🙏🏼.

[@vwlisa]

Good for her. I was vegan during 2 pregnancies. Fell pregnant straight away and was not sick at all unlike my animal consuming pregnant friends. My babies were calm and happy when born and remain that way.

[@laurengianna9944]

@ same goes for her. Guess whatever works best for your health works differently for everyone. She has the best baby girl ever ♥️. Sweet calm and always smiling 🙏🏼.

[@fitmeals9577]

I had a carnivore friend. Couldn't get pregnant. Went vegan. 6 months later, she was pregnant.

[@laurengianna9944]

@ guess everyone’s body works different then 👍🏼

[@vwlisa]

@@laurengianna9944 imagine if everyone went carnivore. The scale of sLaUghter. Think about the amount of suffering these beautiful animals go through. Yes everybody is different … some ONLY think of themselves … some think of others. Carnivore is narcissistic and shallow. We are omnivores but can be vegan if done correctly.

[@yourinception]

I believe this podcast embodies everything wrong with our society today. I’m not sure how Simon managed to stay so calm, but well done!

[@lululove6175]

Agree. Would wish Ellen would have invited Judy Cho, Georgia Ede or dr. natasha, not klutz

[@danellekelly1214]

@@lululove6175me too! Even when I was eating carnivore and fully in support of it, I did not listen to Kiltz. He is terribly unscientific and annoying

[@mariachristina232]

I love this!! Fist OFF especially since i Love you Ellen and know your vegan this makes you having Dr. Kiltz on your Podcast so exciting. I have been carnivore for a lil over a year now and i have personally seen results that have been life changing. I want to say contrary to what Simon thinks, being carnivore is extremely hard! And exercises much needed self discipline. Yes “most” people would love a Ribeye diet, But “most” people cannot and will not just eat a ribeye on their plate. They would prefer a side salad, Mac and cheese and a potato with that steak. I would say it is the most unappealing diet for “most” people to just eat red meat. So I would challenge Simon to try it himself. There is nothing better then you yourself being the study.

[@basinawilley2588]

Dr. Klitz is someone I would never want to get caught up in his contradictions & hypocrisy. Hats off to Simon remaining calm & rational.

[@melindatagg]

Ellen, I must say, your video editing is AMAZING! You are doing such an awesome job with this 🙌

[@Chris90.]

what video editing? cutting back and forth between Simon and Kiltz? and then her plug? Lol

[@melindatagg]

@Chris90. 😅 haha well obviously she isn't making a movie. I Am just referring to thw start of the video and how she has progressed from her early days. I think they are well done!

[@1timbarrett]

@@Chris90.I don’t mind her plug for the vegan toiletries, because that’s all plants should be used for, right? Out of respect for plants there is no way I’ll be picking them and eating them and shipping them halfway around the world for my precious little poké bowls. 😮

[@Chris90.]

@@1timbarrett I used her plug as just an example of another edit she used for the video production. not the fact it was a plug

[@Chris90.]

@@melindatagg oh I got you. I'm sure the production quality has evolved quite a bit!

[@Psartz]

It's all about me, me, me, me, me. Nothing about the environment, nothing about suffering. By the way, I've been happily on a plant-based diet for more than a decade, and I know people who have been on it for more than 60 years.

[@asdf1991asdf]

Yeah, and I know plenty of people whose health degraded on veganism. I lived and worked in a vegan community for years. So it doesn't work for a lot of people.

[@Psartz]

@asdf1991asdf give me one name.

[@asdf1991asdf]

@Psartz what? You want me to name the people I personally know who have ditched veganism? Lol r u serious? And why give yourself up so easily? Everyone knows that when you encounter a vegan who actually denies that veganism is not for everyone then your dealing with a completely unserious person who is clearly stupid. Eveyone knows that plant based is crap for heaps of people. We evolved on meat so the entire population will never be able to stop eating it without a decline in health.

[@vwlisa]

@@PsartzJoe Blow

[@jimmyhua731]

​@Psartz I will give you 2. Steak and butter gal, vegan deterioration. One went full 180 and ate meat only, another went back to a mixed whole food diet. IMO, there are a lot of people with destroyed gut microbiomes who can't eat veggies anymore. There's also alot of people with compromised metabolisms who can't eat alot of carbs or suffer dire consequences.

[@crazyboutcolts2]

"I also haven't done a milkshake diet for 6 months" - Simon's patience and ability to stay analytical through this is incredibly impressive. Amazing response

[@upgirl5000]

Honestly, I think both of these guys look good and healthy. The common denominators are no processed food, refined carbs, white processed sugar, and probably mostly organic. Focus on these things, real food, and figure out which emphasis works better for you - more plants or more animal products. Having been vegan for several years, I feel best with a balance of both with a little more emphasis on animal foods and fats. It healed my cycle. I had no cycle and terrible hormones for over two years eating very healthy vegan. But it works for others! The extremes don't work for most.

[@johnsebastian2589]

I for one will never go to the carnivore doctor for medical treatment.

[@aubreyford2962]

From plant based to meat eater, I have NEVER felt better physically and mentally. The plant based industry is also killing our soil health. We need animals in the full circle of life ✨

[@Rob_Kp]

80% of crops get fed to animals so false on this and you might feel ok now but its gonna get worse. Plant based done wrong is what most people talk about. You probably lived on crisps and said i am plant based 😅

[@karmicbreath]

800 million trees of the Amazon Rain Forest were destroyed for cattle grazing. Only 4% of the world's mammals are wild. The rest are humans and livestock. We're in a mass extinction period. You need to wake up. What did your blood work show when you were plant-based? What did you eat in a day?

[@harvinderubhi5540]

Happily, apart from domesticated animals wild animals also are alive so the soil is not endangered. It will be when there will be no plant life for your animals for food that you claim to thrive on. Next time you want your meat go out hunting with your bare hands.

[@Insight-music]

It’s the opposite. Factory farms completely destroy the land in ways that takes generations to regenerate

[@cuteface88]

​@@Insight-musicRegenerative farming is good for the Earth. Agriculture is not, no matter how you do it.

[@user-zj9ow6vl1m]

The studies linking negative health outcomes to red meat, would call PIZZA with a handful of sausage tossed on it “red meat”. There have not been legit studies of Carnivore meat based diet vs plant based diet. But if you look at human evolution, we have been hunting and fishing for not just our current species, but multiple species before we became Homo sapiens. Anyone trying to live in the wild for even a week will quickly learn that we can not get enough calories and nutrients from plants to survive. We are meat eaters, the small percentage of plants in our wild diet was to help us survive the lean times. Anyone who has been in ketosis for awhile can attest to the mental clarity and overall health improvement when you burn fat for fuel rather than carbohydrate.

[@bodyatwar]

8 years whole food plant based… after being paleo for 12. Currently aging backwards and have reversed lupus, type 2 diabetes, hashimotos and PCOS. There’s a story to contribute to the pool of “story”.

[@SarymaryQuiteContrary]

I'm sorry, but it is really hard to deem a person "credible" when his scientific basis which he confides in the most is, quote : "His grandmother" (and her not being madame curie that is).

[@TheHomemadeHippie]

Dr. Kiltz seems very ego driven, if I’m being honest. It’s almost as if he only cares about being right, rather than having a genuine conversation about truth. Honestly, I was completely turned off to this debate. You can always tell a carnivore, based on how they act. There is lots of natural epinephrine in meat, which seems to make people on this diet very anxious, aggressive and irrational.

[@eileenalexander3650]

A big problem is how plants are grown. Fertilizer grown plants are good to look at but nutrient deficient! xx

[@kib6793]

I personally didn't do well on carnivore. I was previously on keto which had a balance of meats and plants with low effective carbs, and for me, having that variety was much more enjoyable and healthy. After removing the plants, my gut instantly felt unsettled, but I kept with it for a while. Intuitively I felt like my body was developing a reaction to the eggs so I eliminated them, and it got better - for a while, then I'd develop another reaction and I kept eliminating more. To cut a long story short, by the time I felt something was up and decided to see a doctor, he said I had developed Crohn's disease. The gastroenterologist treated me but also referred me to see a dietician to help me gradually reintroduce diversity into my diet, since the diversity in the diet helps to reintroduce healthy diversity in the gut bacteria, which ultimately helps to keep the Crohn's under control. There is no cure for Crohn's, but by reintroducing diversity back into my diet gradually under the guidance of a qualified dietician, my Crohn's has gone into remission, and I am basically free to eat whatever I want. I just need to make sure I don't eat too much of one type of food for too long, but instead cycle through a variety of different foods to keep the gut in balance. These days, I actually eat mostly plants (because I like those recipes) with the occasional chicken, beef and seafood, all unprocessed, and I'm doing well. Diversity is key. When you go to the supermarket, try new foods you've never tried before. This is just an anecdote, though, like the other people here who say carnivore changed their life for the better. Many diets can be healthy if your gut can adapt to it, so my advice to anyone who is missing diversity, is to seek a professional dietician for guidance on how to gradually introduce diversity into your diet so that your gut can adapt to it.

[@saraandshe]

I'd love to see Simon Hill go head to head with Dr Ken Berry. Battle of the double blind placebo studies would ensue.

[@bell1990]

Thank you God, everything i listen to dr berry he is talking about this study or that study and breakingn it down. This guy from what I could stand to listen to only talks about stories. Which okay but studies are good too and their are some studies that support carnivore. Not a lot because it's not really studied but some

[@1timbarrett]

Or a debate between Simon Hill and Zoe Harcombe…?

[@Pascal270]

Simon Hill vs Bart Kay !!

[@toms8879]

@@bell1990 Dr. Ken Berry's SHOCKING Labs! Cardiologist Explains!. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYOldKqwqph_sJI

[@saraandshe]

@@bell1990 According to Dr Berry, there are more studies out there about low carb, ketogenic diets than veganism. I'm gonna go find those studies now.

[@ClouduSan]

Simon asked so many questions that pretty much went unanswered by Klitz... This was basically science based (good evidence) vs story based (poor evidence) the whole discussion, very frustrating.

[@paulc5389]

Check rates of red meat and saturated fat consumption over time against rates of obesity, cvd, ADHD, autism, etc. The former is reducing considerably whilst the latter is increasing exponentially. What more actual evidence do you need? Real world outcomes of the entire population >> bias studies that assume unproven or even disproven hypothesis as fact.

[@1timbarrett]

Simon also interrupted a lot. I really wish he hadn’t done that. 😢

[@ClouduSan]

@@paulc5389 Those diseases are multi-factorial so claiming that red meat and saturated fat consumption being higher or lower is "actual evidence" is inaccurate at best. Are you implying that women giving birth at an older age nowadays vs 50 years ago doesn't affect any of those? or that the detection tools or the amount of testing done these days for autism\ADHD for example doesn't affect the amount of diagnoses?

[@ClouduSan]

@@1timbarrett There's nothing wrong with a bit of interrupting when it's a discussion and not a monologue. He wasn't being rude and they both talked politely, I don't know what specifically bothered you.

[@paulc5389]

@ClouduSan I don't disagree it's nuanced. That's entirely my point. The plant based crowd cling to meat and saturated fat being the driving cause of diet driven disease. The inverse trend of both would be impossible if that was the case.

[@christinaFYI]

I have my own vegan anecdote which I swear by but admittedly the problem with anecdotes is that so much information gets overlooked. Some person suffers immense digestive issues then goes carnivore and swears it solved their problems, perhaps they were suffering because of an unhealthy gut microbiome, something like sibo. In that case, of course it seems to have solved their problems, but for how long. As for Kiltz, he doesn't seem to want to answer any question posed, the moment he's asked something, he tail spins off into philosophy and the idea that we all live by our own stories or talking around the question, that seems like a red flag to me. I do however agree with him on some concepts like fasting

[@angelbianchi4786]

Dr. Ken Berry would have been a much better pick to debate for carnivore

[@createdbylink]

Well, he had a discussion with PhD Gil Carvalho, and it sounded just as bad as this one, full of whataboutisms and absolute failure to engage with anything that Carvalho had pointed out. It's all the same, just talking in absolute terms, calling stuff poison, pointing to anecdotes and stories of a few potentially biased accounts instead of outcomes and data based over millions of people

[@kjettern]

I agree, and Dr. Chaffee even more so. I have no problem acknowledging that the plant-based dude won this debate. Not because he is right, but because he performed better.

[@h.imamura7344]

Well, thank you for the discussion. But it was nearly pure waste of time except I learned I will not pay any attention to the guy sitting in front of Simon. Good patience Simon.

[@susandupre1457]

I went carnivore two years after year of eating fruits and vegetables on keto. I still had my “hereditary” high blood pressure, psoriasis and inflammation. When I went carnivore my BP is now 111/64 without medication. My psoriasis is gone and my bone on bone knee no longer bothers me. I’m no longer insulin resistant. My calcium scan is a zero. Im a 4 on the Bristol Stool Chart, so my gut is healthy. My GP fully supports my diet because he sees how healthy I am now. The weight loss is just a small benefit.

[@c.bastien8437]

Once on carnivore How long did it take for you to see it was healing? I have been on this diet for 4 months now but no results so far

[@lauracrowley4572]

Simon, you are a beacon of hope in this crazy world, and your patience in this "debate" was nearly super-human. It was maddening to listen to Dr. Klitz bob and weave. Please know that your efforts to get good information out to folks are not wasted. I just had a long conversation with my 23 year old daughter about how to know what and who to trust when everyone is an "influencer," and I cited you as an example of someone who bases their recommendations on the developing body of accumulated scientific evidence, who is willing to put "error bars" on their level of confidence, and willing to adjust their position based on new information, and therefore is trustworthy. Thank you.

[@carnivore_for_future]

5 year Carnivore -400lbs and solved 26 diseases/allergys/diagnoses (my ASD is in fully remission (was 174point on RAADs.......) Plants/seedoil destroyed my health, and i'm also more or less allergic to 99.999% of all existing plants/spices... (gliadine allergy) I grew up on a standard swedish diet with seedoils and 80-90% veggies and very little meat because of poor family..

[@Ididntwantayoutubehandl]

Amazing that you've been able to figure out what helps you! And that you're now thriving! God bless you!

[@VegeCooking]

Thanks for sharing your N of 1 story.

[@williamjiraiya]

Cool anecdote bro.

[@Insight-music]

“pLaNts aRe BaD!” I’m sure that placebo is nice

[@jim5jim5jim5]

@@williamjiraiya Cute comment bro. Dis you make it up yourself?

[@sugansugan56]

I was plant based for too long - health declined - getting back on track with mostly carnivore , minimal carbs - hbg A1c down - no longer pre diabetic , bp med cut in half, no longer have arthritis , head clearer, less anxiety

[@dragan176]

What did you eat when you were on a plant based diet? And more importantly, what did you exclude?

[@sugansugan56]

@ I followed Mcdougall A lot of beans and potatoes Not enough protein for me

[@dragan176]

@@sugansugan56 Ever any nuts or seeds?

[@panes840]

​@sugansugan56 so just add edename beans, tofu, seitan, tempeh, more nuts. Protein powders, tvp (which is NOT highly processed) and some plant based mock meats are terrible and as bad as terrible meat versions but there are some fantastic well made mock years too that are actually very good. Dr Christopher Gardner did a fantastic study on this. Plant versions still lowered biomarkers. Just keep highly processed foods with too much, saturated fat, salt and refined sugars to a minimum, good clean water, wholegrains and much variety of those and huge variety of fruit and veg and fermented foods are absolutely fantastic. Watch Simon Hills interview on fermented food with Rich Roll.

[@dualhearts2035]

ever get bloodwork done? Speak with a nutritionist?

[@jacobbuhler1433]

Everyone acting like it’s carnivore vs vegan. Simon is vegan but never tells people they have to eat 100% vegan to be healthy. But he uses science to show how important plants are in our diets and those can go along with eating some meat and dairy and animal products. Dr Kiltz sounds crazy and has so business debating Simon. Any random person could show up and tell random stories and say how they feel with no science backing. Simon please debate someone with a little more sense. Simon is the GOAT

[@stevegcq]

Dr Kiltz is not crazy but he is not suitable as a debater. Simon should debate someone like Dr. Anthony Chaffee, who would defeat Simon soundly, using his knowledge of scientific studies.

[@chrisr.6638]

Science is settled that vegans are deficient in over 20 essential nutrients, not just B12 like they like to claim

[@AnneMB955]

Plants are not important in our diet. ALL the essential nutrients can come from meat based.

[@Insight-music]

Yes he acknowledges the fact that you can incorporate some animal products and still achieve certain health goals but once you incorporate ethics you can reach those health goals and avoid unnecessary suffering of animals

[@LoveCoveredLifePodcast]

How did a physician say he doesn't know what a polyunsaturated fat is?

[@sarahpetkau5890]

Thank you Dr Kiltz! Switching to your clinic and the carnivore diet has been life changing for me! I have had the best results thus far with your clinic and diet plan

[@mobydog99]

"no such thing as a bell curve" lol "I don't know anything about Ansel Keyes research" lol on and on, good luck with that

[@peterfialka5315]

I held back from writing comment but when the part when the carnivore doctor said his patients ear nuts seed legumes fruit veggies and lean meat while Simon explained to him that this is not a real representation of what people eat and he didn’t agree I got angry 😂. People literally eat trash. Muffins and processed snacks. If people only followed the recommendations on above mentioned foods they would rarely be obese and sick

[@FlyingCloudFamily]

Thanks for coming on Dr. Kiltz. I am 20 weeks pregnant from working with your Springs location! We are so excited ! As a RN, I appreciate you speaking out about the benefits of carnivore diet.

[@renehache]

While I don't like debates turning into shouting matches, this an instance where Dr Kiltz's "niceness" and "positivity" was so disingenuous and fake that the podcast was at best difficult to listen to, and absolutely infuriating at times. I may have developed PTSD from hearing the word "stories" so many times. He talked for about half of this podcast, yet for that 1 hour and 20 minutes pretty much said nothing significant or insightful and never answered a question directly.

[@shangstr]

After i was breast fed I was ketovore all my childhood. My mother swore by vegetables there was more vegetables than meat on my plate, I was conditioned into adulthood and was thought to be a healthy eater most my life. Until going carnivore 2 years ago that cured my mild aspergers, mild ulcerative colitis, asthma, allergies, depression, no sun burning anymore. I'm more able to adapt to a warmer climate, I sleep much better and no longer snore. I can go and go. I was recently labelled at work as the best worker and the only one with minimal time off. I was promoted A 48 year old landscaper with Zero pains for last year an half. This time 2 years ago I was thinking of getting out of landscaping because of my pains especially my shoulder that apparently needed a operation. But this is just a story, my story on this subject The same stories coming out of Harvard labelled as "science" backed. They have to believe what they're hearing is true and note it, because unless they're locking all their patients in a cage and throwing tomatoes at them to eat for science, which is unlikely, the backing is only backed by stories, true or false. You're 100% right and 100% wrong, just as much as kiltz Kiltz made this clear and he could see how easily the young guy was being triggered just by him being calm and collected and peaceful and agreeing with his 100% right 100% wrong side. Getting frustrated so easy is quite possibly a condition that might need attention. Frustration is a stress, theres nothing healthy about being easily stressed over the littlest of things, such as; a discussion about nutrition from both sides of the fence. So maybe his not as healthy as he believes. I think kiltz possibly was playing this guys current mental health status. And for that, he won the debate..

[@Dan16673]

Nah he just tipped around like a lol b8tch

[@cuteface88]

I've noticed vegans are almost always very quick to get frustrated and have a superiority complex. It seems the pro-plant guy was definitely more emotional in my opinion.

[@Dan16673]

@@cuteface88 how? he was very calm and this doctor was all over the place

[@dragan176]

Stopped reading after "mild autism"

[@cuteface88]

@@Dan16673 He was visibly annoyed. If your hormones are in check you don't get annoyed almost ever.

[@egreen3731]

I appreciated Simon’s clear, evidence-based argument but these kinds of guys are intent on following their ‘ beliefs’ and disregarding the data in favour of anecdotal stories. Imagine the damage they are doing to their patients. When doctors don’t follow a science-led approach, what outcomes will there be for their patients 🤯. Thanks again Simon for being the calm in the storm and bringing a rational voice to nutrition science 🧬🙏

[@thelaststylebender1678]

huh? the evidence is overwhelming by now for a very low carb diet. What are you talking about? The plant based diet that Simon promotes is obesogenic and diabetes-promoting. He causes you to overeating, searching for more protein and nutrients.

[@BishoppKozik]

Hallelujah!!! I’m favored and blessed with $60,000 every week! Now I can afford anything and also support the work of God and the church.

[@IlmoEspino]

Oh really? Tell me more!

[@BishoppKozik]

This is what Melissa Jonas Richard does, she has changed my life.

[@BishoppKozik]

After raising up to 60k trading with her, I bought a new house and car here in the US and also paid for my son’s (Oscar) surgery. Glory to God.shalom.

[@EthelWilliams-m]

I know Melissa Jonas Richard, and I have also had success...

[@EthelWilliams-m]

what’s her contact information?

[@planetetrangere]

The main problem is that people who go carnivore and say they get better, we just don't know what was their diet before that. Everyone says that they had a good diet but most of them were fat so that means they did not have a good diet. If you have a shitty diet and you go carnivore, it is for sure better for your help.

[@trishstauble3461]

Wow. Thanks for participating in this conversation, Simon. Difficult to listen to Dr. Kiltz. Science should underpin food choices. Dr. Kiltz appears to place anecdotes above science to make food choices. I've been six years whole food, plant based and so happy to have found this eating pattern. Type II diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity...all are addressed by this diet. I'm 71 and don't need any medications. My asthma even resolved. Healthy food matters ! Thanks Ellen for hosting this conversation.

[@stiazlarin1]

Dr Kiltz is literally just telling random stories and deflects every question - very random guy

[@pepper419]

Just as well, your vegan friend has nothing interesting to say.

[@AnneMB955]

However, he’s right…

[@ReggieG-pb5zb]

I cured 40 years of chronic constipation eating a Carnivore diet...fiber made Me sick for years...cured insulin resistance, migraine, skin cleared up,posture gate, hypoglycemia...I am almost 60 and feel better than ever...I was praying and crying when I discovered this lifestyle...and I have lost 55lbs...My Story

[@slipbob-bs9rw]

Me too! I'm 63 and cured my obesity and poor health with the carnivore diet. I look and feel great! Two years now and love it.

[@Oogahboogah1497]

That’s impressive-Good for you! What does your diet typically look like?

[@ReggieG-pb5zb]

Beef Butter Bacon Eggs and Sardines...I drink coffee with salt or butter....I started out with cheese...but realized it was the cause of inflammation and migraine...so gave it up...I choose health!!!

[@Oogahboogah1497]

@@ReggieG-pb5zb i appreciate the info!

[@midlanderwbaboothy7068]

Does it have to be one or the other i eat a good balanced diet with fresh meat , fruit, veg & the odd treat and i feel just fine

[@bodyatwar]

Simon is not “sharing story” - he is sharing science 🤷🏻‍♀️ not sure why this is not being noted

[@thomassaddul6070]

Dr. Kiltz is one of my favorite intelligent doctors!

[@Parker_Miller_M.S.]

He does not at all appear intelligent in the area of nutrition and wellness. How are you defining intelligent?

[@rba4377]

why?

[@thomassaddul]

​@@Parker_Miller_M.S.He changed from vegan to carnivore like me after learning the proper human diet. After learning that my stomach absorbs Carbs as glucose, Fiber cant be absorbed, Fats and Protein are ESSENTIAL, the rest is history.

[@toni4729]

@@Parker_Miller_M.S. He's trying to be tactful. Pity you can't see that. But I guess you're a vegan.

[@Parker_Miller_M.S.]

@@thomassaddul our guts can ferment fiber and create short chain fatty acids which are widely health promoting. So in a sense we can absorb fiber, plus the roughage helps reduce risk of colorectal and colon cancer. An absolutely enormous body of literature shows how beneficial fiber is in health and disease. While not essential to survive one can argue from the data that to have the best chance of life long health fiber is essential.

[@JamieR]

I would want to hear a debate between Dr. Natasha Campbell and Simon Hill. Someone who uses nutrition and diet to help heal diseases. Who has a deep background in conventional healthcare.

[@lululove6175]

Agree… Dr. Natasha would be wonderful …this guy gives me creepy vibes.

[@KellyRuttan-re7df]

I admire your patience Simon, it took me a couple of days to get through because it was frustrating to listen to Dr. Kiltz at times…

[@kellyquilliam3022]

I feel like its rude when people answer your question with a question, Kiltz did this a lot which can be patronizing. Simon focused on research and evidence which is a stronger argument.

[@leonardoyi3183]

i'm not saying simon is wrong...But "science" can be misleading and statistics can be interpreted in very different ways by different scientists...Now, Simon is mostly arguing against carnivore, yet, he doesn't provide a single study that can conclude that carnivore is not good. His most powerful argument against carnivore is the LDL (and ApoB) yet, what exactly are the risks? i haven't heard a single number by him in terms of risks. If we go into specifics, what is the risk of a "high" LDL in a carnivore diet? where is the research that concludes that a high LDL in a carnivore diet have a high risk?

[@carnivore_for_future]

There is only bias studies today...

[@christophergeorge4076]

This dude Klitz is full of himself. You can't debate "ego". You are a well-mannered and articulate. Good job Simon.

[@amitloutube]

I know for sure red meat is good for me!!! the reason south asia is biggest king of diabetic population is too much carbs....kiltz is right about fats animal fat is great for brain! entire south asian wrstlers eat very less carbs but mainly animal fat and dairy to get huge! but Kiltz is not correct on all plants are bad...I do not think beans and lentils when cooked are bad for humans I love them too I think indivisual allergy tests eating whats good wholesome and some meat avoiding most of dairy because it causes gut issues eating cooked beans rice lentils and some red meat fresh fish curries and some less allergic vegetabes and tubers is great plus some fruits

[@julienfroidevaux1143]

Vegans have one third the rates of diabitities compared to meat loving Americans according to Pub Med. Dr Kepner aka the rice diet reversed diabitities on a high carb low fat plant based diet. Please try to explain these facts away .🙏

[@julienfroidevaux1143]

The meat isn't helping with your logic ethier . You claimed Asians are overweight due to carbs than a few sentences later you claim sumos are big cause they limit the carbs .😂

[@JeffC26131]

@@julienfroidevaux1143 Answer to your first question: due to poorly designed “science.” Answer to your second question: Well, I thought we weren’t supposed to use anecdotal evidence to demonstrate our point 🤷‍♂️

[@1timbarrett]

@@julienfroidevaux1143Please check how you want the rest of us to spell ‘diabetes’. 😮

[@ladannuri4702]

​@julienfroidevaux1143 you comparing it to American diet which is rubbish but you have to see the keto, carnivore or low carb animal based diet .it's a huge difference. You can easily fake the outcome of a study if you compare the American junk diet with vegan diet, obviously the vegan diet would win because the American diet is rubbish but if you compare the vegan diet with the carnivore diet than obviously the carnivore diet is by far superior

[@stacyhilburn1493]

Im still for the medeterrain diet myself . Best of both worlds!!