DEBATE: Which Diet is Better for Longevity? Simon Hill vs Dr. Kiltz | Plant Based vs Carnivore

[@vox.vera.vocalcoaching]

All my respect to Simon Hill for his calm, respectful and science-based communication. I love how he never interrupts and lets Mr. Kiltz finish his sentences. Whereas Mr. Kiltz is visibly getting irritated by the scientific info Simon Hill presents him with and gets increasingly emotional and interruptive.

[@MsGyzy]

😂😂😂

[@michaelmedeiros2089]

That's just your story of what happened.

[@jc2636]

Dr Kiltz however , on the point of government control to eventually eat “ZERO meat” is true, even though he doesn’t expound on it. The WEF in alliance with the EU do indeed have plans to eventually control how and what we eat. There is evidence that those who are members of the WEF such as Bill Gates, are taking action towards this goal- the goal to have ultimate control of populations everywhere including food supply and human consumption of food. Its not conspiracy, its written and spoken about on their very website , books, seminars etc. but it is overwhelming for people to hear and sounds too fringe to be for real but the fact is , their plan is unfolding and has been unfolding.

[@GERS316]

Funny, I thought the complete opposite.

[@emmacahill5502]

Lol😂😂😂

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Dr Kiltz wasn't able to answer several basic questions. I've gone back through the conversation and summarised them below. 1- You are blaming foods that people are NOT eating for the chronic disease burden. Make it make sense? 2 - You say that people are generating too much fear about food. Yet sugar is toxic and dairy is poison? Make it make sense? 3 - You say that you don't know what's right or wrong, it's all just a story. Yet you said several times my position and the science is wrong. If you don't know what's right or wrong, how do you have such deep convictions that what I am saying is wrong? 4 - You are blaming the dietary guidelines for poor health. Yet 90+% of the population do not get close to adhering to them. Is it the guidelines that are to blame or the food environment and socio-economic disparities that makes it near impossible for much of the population to adhere to them? 5 - You say people shouldn't trust the science because it's propaganda. It's bought and paid for. Yet you, and most influencers online, generate lots of income by saying that you have the answer. Does the same bias not exist? 6 - You say fibre is increasing risk of colorectal cancer. What data supports that? Can you share it with us because the biggest review of RCTS and observational trials by Reynolds et al shows the very opposite (more fibre = less risk of colorectal cancer). pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30638909/ 7 - You believe what you see in your clinic is representative of the USA. Do you understand what selection bias is? If Dr Kiltz was able to directly answer any of these, without going on tangents (i.e talking about lady bugs), we may have had a more fruitful conversation.

[@SigmaLigma1]

I wouldn’t waste your time with these comments. This guy is clearly trying to sell supplements and ride on the “animal-based” trend for as long as he can. Guaranteed when there is another diet fad he will retract his statements and move along to the next big thing to sell more stuff. He is a bad faith grifter.

[@ThingsYoudontwanttohear]

@@SigmaLigma1 This x 500

[@donaldanderson6578]

Simon, these people don't care about truth, they have no epistemic standard, it's all about contrarianism and heterodoxy. I appreciate your effort but only law/accountability will make them change their tune.

[@breezyg6722]

If he said STORY one more time I Swear !!!!!! 😅

[@breezyg6722]

Oh my gosh Im getting more and more frustrated lol why is kiltz going back and for between this WOKE hippie view like " I creat you and you create me " and yet Simon is like " bro....I'm talking facts here and you're just trying to talk pow wow and smoke herb and paint a picture of my STORY " 😂

[@Rigpa88]

"I don't know what a polyunsaturated fat is." "Well, you might want to look into that.." 😂

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4upl5Rufpynn5osi=T5jpvFuid3JeM553

[@yabbamita]

it's amazing to me how a doctor who is on here as a nutrition expert doesn't know what a polyunsaturated fat is.

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

@ it is more amazing that you would believe that

[@yabbamita]

@@AliceFarmer-bg4dw you're amazing

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

I want hear how either could defend against what this cardiologist says concerning these Randomized Control Trials kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5mVaJaAaseMf68si=6VMWdTg7RW3NsRXE

[@polvalls5454]

The thumbnail is wrong. This is not a debate between plant-based and carnivore, this is a debate between science and populism.

[@KiwiBee21]

Nailed it

[@steveherridge8965]

No nutritional study can be 'science'. Too many variables.

[@AnneMB955]

Plant based won’t be popular for long when we find that meat based is perfect for our health.

[@polvalls5454]

@@AnneMB955 Cool, but how do you know is “perfect for our health” if you haven’t find it yet? 🥲 (That could be the summary of this whole debate…)

[@Reeve-vf6zk]

you don't understand what populism means

[@nyart66]

This is how Dr Kiltz is. I had a telemed appointment with him and he wasn’t listening to me and running around in circles telling me what my problems were. Not helpful.

[@yogiyoda]

Kiltz gives off creepy grifter vibes. Just cause an old dude does TRT (aka steroids) it doesn't mean they know anything about nutrition

[@kianarose1000]

I respectfully say, Dr. Kilts cares about feelings and stories, not science. You can’t debate science with someone who refuses to acknowledge science. He kept saying things that almost sounded like science, but he’s not knowledgeable at all in that area, hence why he kept going back to his stories. So this debate was not on the same ground. Simon looks at science, so he needs to debate someone who also looks at science, or else, in my opinion, it’s a waste of time ❤️

[@RodKruz]

I think the goal of the debate is not to find a common ground, it’s more about showing the viewers where both sides are coming from.

[@kaylinworthington]

@@RodKruzI think the problem is that the foundation of evidence is different. It could have been better to have a carnivore who focused on the science rather than someone who doesn’t believe in science. It’s important to see different views from the same foundation.

[@RodKruz]

@kaylinworthington I agree, the main issue is that all evidence shows that a carnivore diet isn't healthy. It's like asking flat-earthers to sustain their claims with science against all evidence that proves the earth isn't flat.

[@UnsaltedSiren]

I really wish this discussion wasn’t so one sided as I feel Dr Kiltz’s rambling took up far too much time dodging most of the questions asked. Simon, I applaud you for staying level headed and trying to keep the conversation scientific.

[@crazyboutcolts2]

"I also haven't done a milkshake diet for 6 months" - Simon's patience and ability to stay analytical through this is incredibly impressive. Amazing response

[@RaingerHaslam]

Anybody who says “their grandmother” over “scientist trying to prove things” is an absolutely unhinged hierarchical ranking of evidence

[@yabbamita]

Meta-analyses? Double -lind randomised palcebo-controlled ttrial? NAH. MY GRANDMA!

[@meta671games]

mainstream of science is 40 years behind. And a raw meat diet without man-made plants is just common sence

[@Brukner841]

@@meta671games bot

[@meta671games]

@@Brukner841 u can ask ur mum

[@polibm6510]

So what about "a vegan influencer"?

[@lewiscooke5511]

Whilst this episode perhaps didn’t have the intended impact ( a decent and honest conversation, done in good faith) it did highlight one thing- that so many within the carnivore community just aren’t capable of having g those types of conversations and are even less capable of providing anything that even remotely looks like sound data, to Support it. Kiltz is an awful example of someone who is stepping out of their lane and in this episode alone has been shown up for the clueless charlatan he is. Simon has the patience of a saint for having to sit there and be faced with utter nonsense like that.

[@laurelthomsen]

What a maddening discussion to listen too! I admire Simon for not just screaming and blowing out of there. This “Dr” reminds me of a famous politician who likes to talk in circles and deny facts too, and some older men and occasionally women, I’ve met in coffee shops who hang around all day waiting to pounce on unsuspecting customers with the patience to listen to them go on and on about conspiracy theories and nonsense. I kind of wish they hadn’t given this guy yet another platform, but hopefully most people will agree that results based on dozens, if not hundreds of huge population studies are more reliable than anecdotes from a few random people. It’s kind of like when one of my violin students sees someone on KZbin holding their bow or violin in a slightly strange way and they wonder if they should try that too. Well, sure try anything, but recognize that some outlier who might have made it work while everyone else had success the standard way might not mean you’ll have success too. And the person in question might be able to play some basic songs ok, but as a teacher, I can see where this outlier’s method might create a stumbling block down the road. My student doesn’t have the knowledge or experience to foresee this yet of course. That’s why it’s important to look down the road a bit, and help people make educated choices for the future. No one that I know of has ever subsisted on a carnivore diet for a lifetime. As for myself, I’m almost 43 and have enjoyed great, measurable health on a plant based diet my entire life. Yep, I got this far never having even tried meat. But that’s just another story to add to the pile. Go figure.

[@vox.vera.vocalcoaching]

Thanks for saying this! I felt exactly the same about this discussion. The "Dr" was just beating around the bush saying exactly nothing.

[@snubdawg1386]

mind over matter

[@Weeweesilly]

Wow, just reading these comments- I can see that the audience of this channel are a bunch of flat earthers that will never understand that meat is in fact our original and best diet that we were 100% supposed to eat. Simon and the ppl here- Answer with your “science” - if our bodies are meant to eat plants, the why are 7 highly essential vitamins found only in meat and anyone on vegan/plant diet will need to take these 7 essentials as a supplement. Here is more science: If humans are meant to eat all plants, why do we have a carnivore digestive system that is 99% identical to carnivores? Herbivores have either 4 stomachs or a long and large cecum. We have neither. All plants have cellulose. We need the enzyme cellulase to digest cellulose. We do not have or can even make the enzyme cellulase. Carnivore is not a “diet” fad. It’s science. Science uses isotopes to test fossil bones to determine of that animal was carnivore or herbivores- used even for dinosaurs. Humans existed as early as 300k years ago - isotopes testing has us clocking in at 70-90% meat based…. Bc scientifically, our biology has little to no ability to digest plants. If you understand this - you will see that Simon is handsome and smooth in talking- but lacks science, logic, and is just lost and narcissistic This video and all the dumb comments that Kilz is dumb will not age well

[@rogerwelsh2335]

Eat your plants like the sheep you are Because you don’t know any long term carnivores doesn’t mean there aren’t any I’ve been 100% carnivores for over a year and will never eat differently again EVERY SINGLE thing the human body needs you can get from meat. Plants can NOT provide everything you need.

[@SherryMason]

Listened to this podcast on a LONG car ride where I had time to waste. Only part that was worthwhile was time spent admiring Simon's incredible patience and tolerance (not to mention his wisdom and knowledge of science).

[@julia.no.X]

I disagree.

[@jeffreehealingwaters8169]

Run the studies on N1 on your self you know your body better than a scientist or doctor does

[@julia.no.X]

@jeffreehealingwaters8169 Couldn't have put it better!

[@nickgoldring1446]

@SherryMason Simon Hill is a talented amateur, nothing more.

[@Innately_heal]

I can't wait until society really learns how much studies and science data are funded and manipulated by Big Pharma, Agriculture and Sugar.... to keep everyone repeat customers and sick. I'm on neither side but I think the evidence of people healing and their stories, far outweigh a world that has increased in size and illness as more veg and grains are pushed. I personally love veg and salad, they were my main source of food, until I gradually realised they were the source of my AI and pain. So either may be right, but my story is, meat doesn't cause me pain, so that's my choice. Listen to your body, really listen, it will let you know what foods cause you discomfort and pain and eventually disease may turn up with severe symptoms, youll go to a Dr to find out why, but really its the body telling you if the foods you've been eating has harmed your body. On an end note, the debates ive seen so far between plant based and high ormeat based, the plant based are far more highly strung and agitated, the meat based, very calm. Great debate ❤

[@carly.taylor42]

debate of the season is right!! thanks for all you do behind the scenes to organize such interesting conversations, this was an amazing listen 🔥

[@JCT-g9s]

Wow this Carnivore Dr dodges every question and plugs his favorite anecdote. Simon has amazing patience and manners to make the conversation bearable.

[@Weeweesilly]

Wow, just reading these comments- I can see that the audience of this channel are a bunch of flat earthers that will never understand that meat is in fact our original and best diet that we were 100% supposed to eat. Simon and the ppl here- Answer with your “science” - if our bodies are meant to eat plants, the why are 7 highly essential vitamins found only in meat and anyone on vegan/plant diet will need to take these 7 essentials as a supplement. Here is more science: If humans are meant to eat all plants, why do we have a carnivore digestive system that is 99% identical to carnivores? Herbivores have either 4 stomachs or a long and large cecum. We have neither. All plants have cellulose. We need the enzyme cellulase to digest cellulose. We do not have or can even make the enzyme cellulase. Carnivore is not a “diet” fad. It’s science. Science uses isotopes to test fossil bones to determine of that animal was carnivore or herbivores- used even for dinosaurs. Humans existed as early as 300k years ago - isotopes testing has us clocking in at 70-90% meat based…. Bc scientifically, our biology has little to no ability to digest plants. If you understand this - you will see that Simon is handsome and smooth in talking- but lacks science, logic, and is just lost and narcissistic This video and all the dumb comments that Kilz is dumb will not age well

[@NessaNZ]

By reducing everything to mere 'stories', (and not actual studïes), we are at the mercy of the best storyteller..

[@YourVeganNeighbor]

So so true. Just show me the data.

[@VerySeriousUser]

If you took a look at all the human nutritional studies, you'd understand how "actual studies" mean basically nothing.

[@NessaNZ]

Push up for every time the word 'stories' or 'story' is said lol

[@NessaNZ]

​@@VerySeriousUserso it's all just stories and no story is better than any other? Just subjective opinion?

[@VerySeriousUser]

@@NessaNZ Call it what you want, at least it's not scientific evidence no matter how many people call it that.

[@LoveCoveredLifePodcast]

How did a physician say he doesn't know what a polyunsaturated fat is?

[@Nancymai_]

“I Couldn’t read but I magically became a doctor” - Dr kiltz 🏃🏻‍♀️

[@vwlisa]

😂

[@Adinfinitum136]

WTF! Dr Klitz is a practising physician with a ton of empirical medical evidence backed up by decades of expertise - your plant boy " physiotherapist" (wtf!!) has read a few lifestyle books , picked up a bit of human biology & thinks he knows better?? How silly you are with the plant toxins saturating your synapses.

[@CharlieFader]

@@Adinfinitum136he also has a masters in nutrition and that is the topic of discussion. The old man is demonstrably clueless about nutrition.

[@fractaltv5209]

For real haha

[@cazzawazzadingdong5139]

Hillarious comment. Kinda reminds me of the episode of Mr Bean as Dr Bean the heart surgeon🤣.. Thank god kiltz never "studied to become a heart surgeon. "Well in my "story" this valve doesn't matter"

[@laurlat4449]

I just finished listening to the whole thing. Dr. Kilz is unprofessional and should not be giving ANYONE nutritional advice based on a story. It is ridiculous that people actually take him seriously after hearing him on this podcast.

[@Brukner841]

yeah they are desperate for some confirmation bias, they'll listen to anyone.

[@Clearbluesea-g9v]

45 minutes in and its so frustrating I think Kiltz is confused. He is telling stories and not answering a single question clearly. He may need to change his diet so he can focus :) Bless you Simon for not losing it.

[@dragan176]

For real. For Kiltz, this isn't a debate, he's preaching

[@dragan176]

@@matchafitness I can say, as a dentist, you will not get cavities from eating fruits in itself. Teeth can remineralise to some extent. The thing that matters is frequency of carb intake, not which foods you eat necessarily

[@dragan176]

@@matchafitness If you eat fruit after your meal, it will have next to no impact on your teeth. If you snack on them between meals, it can, but the most important thing is brushing your teeth with correct technique every day and a lot of people don't do that

[@dragan176]

@@matchafitness I'm not called my username in real life 😅

[@michaelbrodie5942]

Kiltz; I'm a surgeon, I'm a scientist-presents anecdotes

[@trishmarck7798]

Right. Stories are just that

[@bdmenne]

Big grain, Big Sugar, Big Processed Industrial Complex appreciates your unDYING support.

[@michaelbrodie5942]

@@bdmenne They're all dwarfed in size compared to the meat and dairy industry. The biggest consumer of grains in the world is livestock consuming approx 80% of grain grown. So it's more likely you support those big scary industries more than myself, As I don't consume much of the things you mentioned other than whole grains and as much of that as I can from small local growers. And just because an industry is large doesn't make it bad.

[@bdmenne]

@ There are millions of products that can be made in processing grain & sugar, so I argue their business is much much bigger, but Big Media, Big Science, Big Gov. is all paid to not look at how massive the plant industry has in our world. Palm oil, corn for ethanol, animal feed, refined flour. The chip, cookie, cereal, candy, bread, pasta, fruit, alcohol aisles dwarf the meat cases. I doubt meat & milk is as versatile. But it is still processed often: heated, homogenized, having processed veg/grain added to it. I agree that majority of grains/carbs/fiber/sugars are forced on herbivores to eat instead of a diverse pasture/insect/solar rich diet. I mostly eat pasture raised animals. I don’t feel safe with franken-foods: industrial oils-plant fats, grains & fruits & animals that Whole Institutions allow. The least Frankenstein foods are the animals as their nutritive profile is nearly identical to their ancestral origins. Plants on the other hand are unrecognizable in appearance or substance. The sweetest fruit 10,000 years ago was equal to that of a basic carrot.

[@bdmenne]

@@michaelbrodie5942 oh no, some one censored my message I sent you. Big KZbin, is the Scariest of them all. Silencing people with Dissenting thoughts. Will this go through. I’m anti feedlot carb/grain fed cattle, btw. Merry Christmas

[@The_Goodhearted]

This was absolutely painful to listen to. My hats off to Simon for the immense patience shown.

[@gailmullard9854]

The Dr makes a good point that most of the science is funded by corporations and pharma - in the UK Tim Spector spoke out against cereals and Kellogs quickly offered him a research opportunity - its actually v sad

[@The_Goodhearted]

@@gailmullard9854even the stuff that isn’t paid off mean f*** all to the doctor is my issue

[@The_Goodhearted]

@@gailmullard9854 there’s a large beef and dairy industry too…

[@mobydog99]

​​@@gailmullard9854no it wasn't a good point, because it was a meta analysis of 150M subjects, absolutely no way to know if there was bias and in what direction, and he said it anyway, knowing zero about what Simon was referring to. He had lots of fancy words tho "goitrogenic" lol 😂

[@listeninghere]

Simon, you stood your ground when Kiltz slid everywhere, dodging any attempt to get clear. What a challenge!

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

Thank you.

[@gioxpfr]

Yep, he was totally wrong but he did stand his ground. I think they call that stubbornness.

[@TheProofWithSimonHill]

@ totally wrong on what? Can you be specific

[@planetetrangere]

Everytime I watch these debates, I want to eat more plants as the carnivore camp does not have any science to back their claims.

[@vox.vera.vocalcoaching]

Lol I feel ya! 💪

[@HushV]

Spend a day in your average community grocery store. The story I see is shopping carts overloaded with soda, chips, cookies, pizza, ice cream, crackers, donuts, etc! It’s the VERY small minority who have mounds of fresh produce/plants/nuts seeds coming down the conveyor belt! Thanks Simon for advocating for our health and a vibrant lifespan! ❤

[@laurelthomsen]

Oh yeah, soooo many chips! It’s not very PC, but whenever I’m traveling and have to shop at a regular supermarket I make it game while I’m waiting in line to look at the conveyor belt or carts of the people behind me, and before I look at them, guess what condition they might be in. You are what you eat after all. Besides chips I see people loading up on frozen pizzas and random other frozen dinners, huge hunks of cheese, boxes of sugar frosting covered pastries, cereal (and not the high fiber type), gallons of milk, white bread, tubs of ice cream, meat, eggs, and sugary soft drinks. IF they have any vegetables there, they are carrots, potatoes, or frozen peas. IF they have any fruit, they are bananas. And most time these poor folks are obese and unhealthy looking.

[@aspreedacore]

darn it I like crackers lol

[@jeremiiah1797]

Our cart is full of vegetables and at least once a month someone comments on it, like the check out person or another customer...lol

[@reneepelletier3021]

I love Simon. Personally, I’m thriving on a plant based diet - this way of eating restored my fertility and keeps me healthy and happy 😊 Thanks for this great episode, Ellen💞

[@faith.W]

@@bobthebuilder9416 what do you mean by "supposed to consume"

[@PostFinasterideSyndromeNorway]

@@faith.Wsince vegan diets lack 15 micronutrients. Better have some meat

[@Psartz]

​@@PostFinasterideSyndromeNorway carnivore diet is not complete diet.You need vitamins biotin (B7), folate,A, C, D, E,copper,calcium and magnesium . Check chronometer none are present in adequate amounts in meat or steak; some are entirely missing.

[@Psartz]

​@@PostFinasterideSyndromeNorway on plant based diet just have to take b12.

[@thegoodguyalwayswins]

@@Psartz There are plants with b12 too, take duckweed or water lentils for example. Unwashed vegetables have b12. Unfiltered water (don't recommend drinking it) has b12 too. Some seaweeds have b12 as well.

[@Eurekaarc]

Yo ,I literally had to pause my phone when Dr K mention his grandmother is the top of pyramid for his evidence

[@CheetahNuggs]

Please do this same debate with someone who is more adequately prepared to defend meat on a scientific level. This felt like an adult talking to a teenager, and while a fun watch, only left me with more questions.

[@1taxibill]

@@CheetahNuggs what questions do you have now?

[@CheetahNuggs]

@1taxibill a mariade of things that only a doctor or researcher can answer. Heres an example, how can we say with any certaintity that fiber will increase someomes odds of colon cancer. At a population level, what evidence is there of this?

[@1taxibill]

@CheetahNuggs cancer lives only if you provide sugars to those cells. Carbs => sugars=> cancer food. But I'm not a dr.

[@CheetahNuggs]

@1taxibill so thats hyper reductive, not necessarily untrue. But non of that answers my questions at all

[@Psartz]

@@1taxibill yea of course you are not doctor.yet making unscientific claims.

[@cinapanina]

@theproofwithsimonhill Your work, spreading true information, is extremely important! Never stop!✨

[@olivertrumanjr9556]

“The best evidence is these conversations”…. Riggght. Kiltz got smoked

[@chrisjellis1161]

Simon displayed patience and respect even in the face of some absurd reasoning, constant emotional appeals and stories full of red herrings. The best part of this was the grace he showed Dr Klitz is generally lacking on both sides of the discourse. Ultimately, although it was hard to follow at times with so many anecdotal tales and never addressing any questions directly, the sheer lack of both preparation and substance in his argument left it feeling hollow and unconvincing, more like a collection of loosely connected stories than a coherent case worth considering!

[@AnneMB955]

Biased

[@chrisjellis1161]

@@AnneMB955 which part? What did you think of the debate?

[@Cenot4ph]

He's a vegan prick thats unethical by stating vegetables are human food. Nutritional science is pure corruption People need to get educated instead of indoctrinated by this cult and the pharmaceutical and food industry

[@djwhiteflour]

I have not watched much of it yet but I already wish there was a split-screen Simon-cam for when the other guy was talking. 😂

[@gaildupuis2967]

Stay tuned for the scientific peer reviewed study, etc. etc. on carnivore data and tons of anecdotal stories representing a quick health response under one year for almost all of this stories I’ve heard.

[@daniellestamford7250]

This was so frustrating to listen to. I was so excited for you to finally have Simon on and I was disappointed that he had to spend the entire time basically explaining logic and science to someone who was supposed to debate a carnivore diet. I was hoping to gain more information on the carnivore diet factually and see Simon's response to help myself in conversation, but this was just so hard to get through,. Dr. Kiltz didn't have a single sentence in the entire over two hours that he would stand behind...or that made any sense. He constantly contradicted himself and I wish Simon was debating someone who has passion for the carnivore diet.

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

Then listen to Professor Bart Kay extremely educated and has actually worked as a scientist and written or coauthored hundreds of papers and publications. Far more educated than Simon. I believe that is why Simon will not debate Professor Kay.

[@wendywitchner7401]

@@AliceFarmer-bg4dw Dr Bart Kay. A guy who spews vitriol and cuss words👌🤦‍♀️

[@charlesfuchs]

You must be fat

[@wellthi]

​@@AliceFarmer-bg4dwBart just dissing people and mumble. Or just promote constantly he's stuff instead of giving real argument, he's unbearable, that why his channel don't grow

[@AliceFarmer-bg4dw]

@ could be I don’t listen to his channel. I listen to him when he is a guest speaker on other podcasts

[@darkcloudsandrainbows3309]

This is so difficult to get through. I have been vegan for half my life now (21 yrs vegan) and appreciate hearing different perspectives, however the carnivore guy is bringing nothing to the table in this discussion. I respect that he isn’t citing inadequate studies or leaving out important information from studies as others in the meat pushing community often do, but this “stories” non sense is frustrating and disturbing coming from someone who is actively practicing medicine….

[@jackhiggs269]

I actually can’t fathom how someone can graduate with a university degree and cite their grandmother as their strongest evidence. All these carnivore quacks should become novelists and stay far away communicating science.

[@StarcraftSwarm]

""I don't know what a PUFA is"

[@julienfroidevaux1143]

@@jackhiggs269 When they don't have science on their side what else can they do ?

[@youbeever]

@@jackhiggs269 So do you think the plant based community has "science" on their side? I haven't watched that debate yet so can't attest to the debating skills/knowledge of that carnivore doctor. However, if you believe all those who support the low carb/keto/carnivore lifestyle are "quacks" that just unfortunately shows your own ignorance of actual science. Not all clinicians who support the inclusion of unprocessed animals based food in the human diet are able to demonstrate the facts in a coherent way. That doesn't mean there's no science to demonstrate our position. One doesn't have to be a strict carnivore to be healthy. That's not the point. The complete exclusion of animal based food as supported by the plant based community (the real quacks of the story imho) is however the issue at hand. Likewise, as an experienced clinical scientist myself, I also can't fathom how those so called "experts" can graduate with a university degree and cite "plant based" and "optimal human health" in the same sentence. I am assuming you support (just as the likes of Simon Hill) a purely plant based nutrition (veganism) as a healthier alternative for humans right? My bad if I misunderstood . But If that's the case, you do realise that veganism is FAR MORE extreme than the carnivore diet don't you? Have a look at my comments above. You can't miss them as they are the longest here. Feel free to give your opinion. I'll respond as soon as I can.

[@kjettern]

The only real science is the science you do yourself. Everyone should try both a plant-based and an animal-based diet and choose the one that is best for them. I did this, and found that an animal-based diet was best for me. I got more energy, slept better, farted less, and gained more muscles after working out. But I have vegan friends who have found a plant-based diet to work better for them. Who am I to judge them and tell them to eat meat if it makes them feel worse?

[@vaiostevenk241]

@jackhiggs269 time of the month is it for you Jackie???

[@thecornerstonetoday]

For over a decade, I ate Plant-based. As of late, over the past 19 months approx, I have been eating Carnivore. Long story short, I am 100% sold on the Carnivore/Keto diet. After being on this diet, I have never felt better! You gotta try it & see for yourself. What have you got to lose?

[@marioques]

For four decades I've eaten plant based whole foods and at 65 I am extremely healthy and fit with a six-pack. You can see my profile picture of when I was 64.

[@KathrynRijken]

Well done Simon! This is the first time I have ever commented on KZbin but I thought you needed to hear what an amazing job you did. So clear thinking, logical, rational and calm! I was yelling at the guy and I have no idea what he was even talking about half the time. I love the way you use science to come to a decision about the best way to eat. I live by your "themes". Keep up the fantastic work!

[@MsGyzy]

Is he a doctor ? 😂😂😂😂

[@gaildupuis2967]

Dr Chris Palmer and Dr Ken Berry have scientific knowledge and stories and both speak very clear to understand on carnivore.

[@cassandrasmom]

And Bart Kay

[@Altlifestylist]

@@cassandrasmom *FAVORITE*

[@bethra.flowers]

❤ Simon is being so humble here and Dr. Kilts is being so resistant to looking at the scientific truth. 'Storyfication' is the actual problem driving the confusion of dietary optimization. I WAS 250# and had metabolic syndrome with diabetes at the beginning of 2020 and reversed this condition with a whole plant food diet. I'm now in the best health and fitness of my life at 51 years and 160#. I will continue my Plant dominant diet for the rest of my life as I lift weights, do calisthenics , dance, roller skate, hike and run.

[@BendeMark]

I managed to sit through it in its entirety. It did not get any better in terms of being a two-sided scientific 'debate'. I think one of these participants was so involved in online conspiracies and bro-science that he is gone. The other is fully immersed in the actual scientific method. Thank you for hosting it with a balanced approach.

[@mandyhand7144]

Thank you ellen for this podcast! As a keto carnivore, i have personally seen not only for myself but for others around me what a keto carnivore diet can do in terms of healing and health.

[@wallowinthehallows]

I developed an autoimmune disease from a plant-based diet. I got sicker and sicker while eating that way. I’ve reversed my autoimmune disease eating carnivore and staying ketogenic. Best of luck to all of you on a vegan diet.

[@Dan16673]

N=1

[@wallowinthehallows]

@ N=many. Heard of the ketogenic diet? It’s the most researched diet in the world.

[@Dan16673]

@wallowinthehallows show me long term outcomes

[@Insight-music]

Keto is a cult. No studies prove it’s healthy long term.

[@wendywitchner7401]

🌱💪🏼 since 1976 and thriving! More energy and stamina than many people younger than me! I’m 67 - start my day with 2 sets of 50 push ups before several other workouts and rarely sit during the day!

[@ticosplinter]

Simon did amazing, wish Dr. Kiltz would actually answer his questions.. 🙄

[@1timbarrett]

Both humans have their typically human flaws! 😮

[@equatorialjourney4478]

Dr K answered more than S & at least had the courtesy to look at him when discoursing . A FAR more balanced , objective professional in every sense of the word . And I knew of neither guy before watching and am neither vegan nor full carnivore so have no bias . I eat whole foods ( plant and animal ) , IF , no sugar or refined carbs & am super healthy medication free senior . As a non biased adjudicator I enjoyed Dr K’s approach and experience

[@hclyrics]

@@equatorialjourney4478 Is this a joke? Kiltz didn't have a leg to stand on. 😂

[@adyashabhanja]

​@@equatorialjourney4478Are you kidding?? Simon was well prepared with evidence and Robert only had anecdotes, he didn't answer a single question properly.

[@equatorialjourney4478]

@ OMG ………what’s w the ridiculous buzzword “ anecdotes” all the commenters are making . New word ?? . They BOTH used anecdotes and S far more than Dr K . Starting w his father ; then his mother’s hyperthyroidism ; then filled in those brackets w abundant more . At least the Doc agreed that anecdotes are just that and that we, collectively, still have a long way to go . His clinical experience in fertility is quite significant in this discussion

[@Freebirdfran]

I hope these encounters don’t discourage Simon from continuing to fight against all the disinformation out there. His voice is needed now more than ever. Everyday I thank my lucky stars that I came across The Proof, Simon Hill’s podcast. I used to follow some of these so called nutrition experts, that is, until I saw what expertise actually means. And there are many millions more like me out there who are desperate for education and when presented with two arguments, one backed by data and science and the other based on anecdotal evidence or personal experience, trust me, people will listen to the facts. They just need access to the information, and Simon is facilitating that, and slowly changing lives and changing the world. Simon, please never stop sharing your knowledge with the world and thank you for your integrity and courage in the face of lies, pseudo science, and alternative facts.

[@chuckv8838]

I disagree. I listen to Simon all the time, but to debate a guy as ridiculous as Kiltz benefits no one. And won’t convince Kiltz’s listeners cause they obviously can’t follow a logical argument. Just gives broader voice to nuts like Kiltz.

[@imdg-t2d]

Who thought i was a good idea to invite Dr. Kiltz to the discussion?

[@bbbbbbbbbbbbbb392]

Ellen thought he's less negative than other animal based docs. Kiltz playing word games was so much worse

[@SweetPotatoTyler]

Simon: “give me your very best evidence for why plants cause our leading diseases” Kiltz: “What’s a goiter?” I am on the floor laughing right now 😂😂😂

[@Hikari7775]

I lost it when I heard that, I just could not believe what I was hearing 😂😂 But it's very representative of the whole debate.

[@jim5jim5jim5]

Goiters are caused by goiterogenic plant foods. I had to explain this? 😅

[@jimgold2550]

Time stamp?

[@karalittleton507]

😂😂😂 So true!

[@jim5jim5jim5]

@SweetPotatoTyler It was a rhetorical question.

[@ReggieG-pb5zb]

I cured 40 years of chronic constipation eating a Carnivore diet...fiber made Me sick for years...cured insulin resistance, migraine, skin cleared up,posture gate, hypoglycemia...I am almost 60 and feel better than ever...I was praying and crying when I discovered this lifestyle...and I have lost 55lbs...My Story

[@slipbob-bs9rw]

Me too! I'm 63 and cured my obesity and poor health with the carnivore diet. I look and feel great! Two years now and love it.

[@Oogahboogah1497]

That’s impressive-Good for you! What does your diet typically look like?

[@ReggieG-pb5zb]

Beef Butter Bacon Eggs and Sardines...I drink coffee with salt or butter....I started out with cheese...but realized it was the cause of inflammation and migraine...so gave it up...I choose health!!!

[@Oogahboogah1497]

@@ReggieG-pb5zb i appreciate the info!

[@Brukner841]

these comments are so funny.

[@susandupre1457]

I went carnivore two years after year of eating fruits and vegetables on keto. I still had my “hereditary” high blood pressure, psoriasis and inflammation. When I went carnivore my BP is now 111/64 without medication. My psoriasis is gone and my bone on bone knee no longer bothers me. I’m no longer insulin resistant. My calcium scan is a zero. Im a 4 on the Bristol Stool Chart, so my gut is healthy. My GP fully supports my diet because he sees how healthy I am now. The weight loss is just a small benefit.

[@c.bastien8437]

Once on carnivore How long did it take for you to see it was healing? I have been on this diet for 4 months now but no results so far

[@SilverCarnivoreCoach]

@@c.bastien8437totally depends on your existing state oh health. For me (coming from a clean Paleo diet for a decade, I lost weight within a month and added muscle over the next 9 months. Other health improvements were incremental along the way.

[@francelarebelle1138]

I am a 60 year old woman, carnivore diet save my life. I do not have any inflammation anymore, I have more energy. No way for me to come back 🎉

[@sugansugan56]

I was plant based for too long - health declined - getting back on track with mostly carnivore , minimal carbs - hbg A1c down - no longer pre diabetic , bp med cut in half, no longer have arthritis , head clearer, less anxiety

[@dragan176]

What did you eat when you were on a plant based diet? And more importantly, what did you exclude?

[@sugansugan56]

@ I followed Mcdougall A lot of beans and potatoes Not enough protein for me

[@dragan176]

@@sugansugan56 Ever any nuts or seeds?

[@panes840]

​@sugansugan56 so just add edename beans, tofu, seitan, tempeh, more nuts. Protein powders, tvp (which is NOT highly processed) and some plant based mock meats are terrible and as bad as terrible meat versions but there are some fantastic well made mock years too that are actually very good. Dr Christopher Gardner did a fantastic study on this. Plant versions still lowered biomarkers. Just keep highly processed foods with too much, saturated fat, salt and refined sugars to a minimum, good clean water, wholegrains and much variety of those and huge variety of fruit and veg and fermented foods are absolutely fantastic. Watch Simon Hills interview on fermented food with Rich Roll.

[@dualhearts2035]

ever get bloodwork done? Speak with a nutritionist?

[@audreygullotto5953]

So grateful to Simon for the work he does and his incredible patience in this video.

[@kib6793]

I personally didn't do well on carnivore. I was previously on keto which had a balance of meats and plants with low effective carbs, and for me, having that variety was much more enjoyable and healthy. After removing the plants, my gut instantly felt unsettled, but I kept with it for a while. Intuitively I felt like my body was developing a reaction to the eggs so I eliminated them, and it got better - for a while, then I'd develop another reaction and I kept eliminating more. To cut a long story short, by the time I felt something was up and decided to see a doctor, he said I had developed Crohn's disease. The gastroenterologist treated me but also referred me to see a dietician to help me gradually reintroduce diversity into my diet, since the diversity in the diet helps to reintroduce healthy diversity in the gut bacteria, which ultimately helps to keep the Crohn's under control. There is no cure for Crohn's, but by reintroducing diversity back into my diet gradually under the guidance of a qualified dietician, my Crohn's has gone into remission, and I am basically free to eat whatever I want. I just need to make sure I don't eat too much of one type of food for too long, but instead cycle through a variety of different foods to keep the gut in balance. These days, I actually eat mostly plants (because I like those recipes) with the occasional chicken, beef and seafood, all unprocessed, and I'm doing well. Diversity is key. When you go to the supermarket, try new foods you've never tried before. This is just an anecdote, though, like the other people here who say carnivore changed their life for the better. Many diets can be healthy if your gut can adapt to it, so my advice to anyone who is missing diversity, is to seek a professional dietician for guidance on how to gradually introduce diversity into your diet so that your gut can adapt to it.

[@emilysemple3263]

Love Simon Hill, his honesty and uprightness - as well as the scientific evidence on his podcast "The Proof".

[@MsGyzy]

Is he a doctor as Dr. Kiltz?

[@Weeweesilly]

Wow, just reading these comments- I can see that the audience of this channel are a bunch of flat earthers that will never understand that meat is in fact our original and best diet that we were 100% supposed to eat. Simon and the ppl here- Answer with your “science” - if our bodies are meant to eat plants, the why are 7 highly essential vitamins found only in meat and anyone on vegan/plant diet will need to take these 7 essentials as a supplement. Here is more science: If humans are meant to eat all plants, why do we have a carnivore digestive system that is 99% identical to carnivores? Herbivores have either 4 stomachs or a long and large cecum. We have neither. All plants have cellulose. We need the enzyme cellulase to digest cellulose. We do not have or can even make the enzyme cellulase. Carnivore is not a “diet” fad. It’s science. Science uses isotopes to test fossil bones to determine of that animal was carnivore or herbivores- used even for dinosaurs. Humans existed as early as 300k years ago - isotopes testing has us clocking in at 70-90% meat based…. Bc scientifically, our biology has little to no ability to digest plants. If you understand this - you will see that Simon is handsome and smooth in talking- but lacks science, logic, and is just lost and narcissistic This video and all the dumb comments that Kilz is dumb will not age well

[@tsebosei1285]

I used to follow Dr. Kiltz because of his title, but after going carnivore, I realized I was thin but not firm. Then I discovered Coach Greg Doucette and Dr. Layne Norton on KZbin, which helped me shift my diet to include lean meats along with plenty of fruits and vegetables. Now, I absolutely love fruits, especially watermelon, which keeps me hydrated during the summer here in South Africa! Beetroot and butternut squash are also among my favorites-so delicious! 😋 The best part is the transformation in my body composition. I’m seeing biceps and getting firmer, which I love! I used to weigh 57 kg with high cholesterol and felt too soft. Now, I fluctuate between 60 to 62 kg, but my glutes, abs, arms, and shoulders are getting toned, and I’m receiving lots of compliments! 😂 My cholesterol is now in a healthy range thanks to my diet of fat-free dairy, lean meats, and plants. ☘️😁

[@aubreyford2962]

From plant based to meat eater, I have NEVER felt better physically and mentally. The plant based industry is also killing our soil health. We need animals in the full circle of life ✨

[@Rob_Kp]

80% of crops get fed to animals so false on this and you might feel ok now but its gonna get worse. Plant based done wrong is what most people talk about. You probably lived on crisps and said i am plant based 😅

[@karmicbreath]

800 million trees of the Amazon Rain Forest were destroyed for cattle grazing. Only 4% of the world's mammals are wild. The rest are humans and livestock. We're in a mass extinction period. You need to wake up. What did your blood work show when you were plant-based? What did you eat in a day?

[@harvinderubhi5540]

Happily, apart from domesticated animals wild animals also are alive so the soil is not endangered. It will be when there will be no plant life for your animals for food that you claim to thrive on. Next time you want your meat go out hunting with your bare hands.

[@Insight-music]

It’s the opposite. Factory farms completely destroy the land in ways that takes generations to regenerate

[@cuteface88]

​@@Insight-musicRegenerative farming is good for the Earth. Agriculture is not, no matter how you do it.

[@braulioarencibia7407]

I have followed a carnivore diet for more than a year already. The anecdotal testimony I have is myself, i have been able to found in myself all those awesome things people describe about this diet. I don’t have any more the bloating, no more reflux, no more kidney stones, no more overweight, no more depression, and l feel way more energy the whole day. Mind clarity is other of the good things I feel with this way of life. No cravings for sugar or any sweet at all.

[@LeahBreHappy]

Do you ever eat fruit? Do you ever eat a veggie?

[@braulioarencibia7407]

@ I may have a berry or a piece of fruit but it is just to allow myself the feeling it is not forbidden. But these fruit events are not regular and when I have those it’s just to taste. If I go regularly eating fruits and vegetables then after a couple of days doing it I start feeling bad again. And I choose to feel good all the time instead of eating something that makes me feel good only for 5 minutes.

[@bethra.flowers]

Wow Dr. Kiltz is not letting Simon finish his points! This sounds like a Religion for him.

[@sidsnyder8043]

So, you think the high priest of Veganism is not a religion ? Veganism in America was started by the 7th Day Adventist, that didn't believe in eating meat. Tell me the religious group that pushes an animal diet ? Not a good agrument.

[@bryankasper8567]

Why do I instantly disbelieve anybody who tries to tell me a story. Lol

[@bencobley4929]

Moral of the story, stories are not scientific studies.

[@bobthebuilder9416]

Don’t like stories? No worries! Here’s some non-fiction! >1 ph balance of our stomachs is 8x outside range of herbivores, for example our gorilla cousins. (Our ph level matches other carnivorous animals such as cheetas, wolves, lions, etc.) >2 size of our intestines in ratio to our body is 8x smaller than herbivores, such as our cousins, gorillas. (Our intestine size to body ratio matches that of cheetas wolves lions etc). This means we need higher energy food, as we physically cannot carry even an 1/8th of for example what our cousins, gorillas, can carry. >3 we have a throwing arm that, if you believe in evolution, was developed through thousands and thousands of years of hunting with spears. If you believe in God he gave us the throwing arm to feed ourselves. >4 people say why do we have herbivore teeth. Because we killed our prey with spears and overtime mostly developed our front k-9 teeth through this process. >5 our jaws physically struggle to move side to side, compared to herbivores, such as our cousins, gorillas. >6 through anthropology we see nitrogen levels (I think; cant remember what compound it was but I think its nitrogen) are 8x outside range of herbivores, and, surprise surprise, matches that of cheetas, lions, wolves, etc. >7 due to the ph level of our stomach being where it is, humans physically cannot ferment fruit & vegetables properly, compared to, once again, our closest cousins, gorillas. I spent 10 minutes writing this when I should have been spending my energy on work. Hope you’re not wasting my time or money but here are 7 facts that I could name off the top of my head. You don’t need to be hand held. Do your own research or suffer the consequences. Anything I said should not have been new because those are all things you could have researched yourself. Stop wasting other people’s time, be an adult, and use google & learn how biochemistry works. Or at least learn the basic arguments you can find if you look hard enough in about 15 minutes, if biochem is too hard. You don’t need a masters in biochem - maybe you can find a 15 minute 101 biology course focused around mammals. “Source?!” Bro. You had never even heard of those 7 things before I told you. I am not your teacher. I am not getting paid to inform you. You are making people feel bad for you & so they waste their time & energy trying to save you. I am here wasting my time with the hope that you will be an adult and do your own research, so that you stop wasting hundreds of people’s time who have good intentions & want to help you. I am here for those hundreds of people wasting their time on you. I’m not here for you. People need to stop thinking they need to be handheld in order to learn.

[@odrowsybox5175]

Thank you regardless​@@bobthebuilder9416

[@crashnburnband]

@@bobthebuilder9416 Those are all good facts, but I will add that it's a misconception that we have herbivore teeth. Actually, we don't move our teeth side to side to grind plants; we have scissor teeth to cut meat like carnivores.

[@sarahfox3312]

Science is so corrupted. Just look at the conflicts of interest declared

[@Patrick-yc3tf]

but but... people love stories and personal experiences... lol it's crazy, they are coping hard seeing the comments here

[@tamflintham7943]

I haven’t listened yet but can say dammmmmm this discussion looks intriguing. I would have loved to see Dr Paul Saladino taking on this discussion. I’m ex vegan of 12 years now animal based and seriously healed a lot of my issues. I ruined my gut health being vegan. To the point I had an all over body candida rash that lasted for 6 years. I tried literally everything I could while (ethical) vegan to heal from this but it eventually got so bad I couldn’t sleep because my skin felt like it was crawling. I even tried raw vegan to see is that helped. (Note: I was never a junk food vegan). I finally was desperate enough to introduce grassfed grass finished beef into my diet and within a week my rash disappeared with all symptoms and I felt like a human again. It was so incredibly hard to do and I felt so so so much shame. I would cry myself to sleep because of the guilt. I remember watching Ellen’s videos of what they are and was so jealous because it looked incredible but I knew eating that way all the time just damaged me. I had to work through so much to be able to get to the place I’m at now. Not saying this is for everyone but I healed my entire body and have lost 20+ kgs healthily going animal based. Can’t wait to see what these 2 have to say.

[@theellenfisherpodcast]

both simon and I asked Paul Saladino many times to come on for this debate and he would not come on my show.

[@tamflintham7943]

@ oh no!!! That’s so sad to hear. Thankyou for replying to my comment. I’ve been following you for years and i thoroughly LOVE all of your content, especially these podcasts.

[@caterinadc5567]

@@theellenfisherpodcast Did you consider asking on Dr. Shawn Baker? I'd think he would be the go-to Carnivore likely to present the case well in a debate context

[@1taxibill]

​@@caterinadc5567I agree and Dr. Bikman is a genius.

[@caterinadc5567]

​ @1taxibill Dr. Paul Mason also gives fabulous research-heavy presentations which seem very scientifically sound (though I don't know if he's got the field hours yet to jump into live debate the way Shawn can)

[@denisea.9033]

Thank you for this!! I’ve actually been wanting to see this happen between Simon Hill & Dr. Anthony Chaffee for a long time but this is great too.

[@mikaelajasonnn3]

Interesting points! It’s amazing how much misinformation is out there. 'Health and Beauty Mastery' by Julian Bannett totally changed my perspective on what we’re told about health and wellness. Highly recommend for anyone who wants the full story!

[@MikeW-t6l]

totally agree

[@Psartz]

​@@bobthebuilder9416Humans are not carnivores, Carnivores/ omnivores sleep 16-18 hours a day, Humans sleep 6-8 hours a day Carnivores/ omnivores have claws, sharp canines, short & pointed incisors, blade shaped molars to rip into flesh straight from a live animal Humans have no claws, blunt canines, long & flat incisors, flat molars for grinding plant foods Carnivores have their lower jaw embedded inside of the top, no side to side or forward movement Humans have their upper jaw due on the bottom, have side to side and forward mobility Carnivores/ omnivores have a simpler digestive system/ 4× shorter intestinal tract, which they use to shit out food very soon after eating it Humans have a complex digestive system, 4× longer intestinal tract digestion & excretion happens much later Carnivores/ omnivores have acidic saliva, acidic urine, 10-100× stronger hydrochloric stomach acid needed for digesting meat Humans have alkaline saliva, alkaline urine weaker stomach acid Carnivores/ omnivores secrete the enzyme uricase, which metabolises uric acid in meat Humans do not produce uricase Carnivores/ most omnivores produce their own Vitamin C Humans need to get their vitamin C from eating foods containing it Carnivores/ omnivores have a far higher microbial tolerance Humans would die from the botulinum toxin, but Carnivores safely digest it. Carnivores eating a high fat diet stay energetic, healthy Humans eating a high fat diet become obese, lazy, & diseased Carnivores/ omnivores do not see in full-colour scale Humans can see in full-colour scale, to determine ripe from unripe fruits Carnivores/ Omnivores sweat from their tongue Humans sweat from pores all over their body Carnivore females have multiple teats for nursing litters (several babies) Human females have dual breasts for nursing 1-2 offspring Carnivores eat their meat raw, through fur/ skin, lapping up the nutrient-rich blood Humans physically cannot eat meat raw, let alone eating a live animal, let alone drinking the blood Carnivores shear & swallow their food without chewing Humans don't shear, they extensively chew their food Carnivores have acid saliva without ptyalin (carb-digesting enzymes) Humans have alkaline saliva with ptyalin Carnivores do not require fiber to stimulate peristalsis Humans do require fiber to stimulate peristalsis Carnivores metabolise large amounts of cholesterol & vitamin A Humans metabolise small amounts of cholesterol & vitamin A Carnivores intestine from 1.5-3× body length Human intestine 9× body length Carnivores have a short, smooth alkaline colon Humans have a long, sacculated acid colon Carnivores complete digestion in 2-4 hours Humans compete digestion in 12-18 hours Carnivores brain chemistry is fueled by fats & protein Humans brain chemistry is fueled by glycogen (from carbohydrates) Carnivores have a complex 6 lobes ljver, liver proportionately larger than humans to digest large amount of fat and protein and detoxification. Humans have 4 lobe liver, proportionately relatively small. Carnivores can't convert short-chain fatty acids into long-chain fatty acids Humans can Carnivores are 100% covered with hair Humans have pores with minimal hair Carnivore intestine allow for meat to pass through quickly, but human intestines are not designed for meat, & it's more difficult to pass meat through, leading to blockage of meat, constipation & disease. A human "meat-eater" eats animals because they are available in abstract forms of"meat". Meat-eaters aren't Carnivores or predators If you want to disprove this reality you should catch & eat an animal alive and film it. Historically people have eaten animals: A) to survive/ they didn't have plant foods as an option. No access to agriculture, hunter-gatherers. B) because they are rich, have a choice, choose to eat animals. C) because culture has normalised eating animals even though we aren't carnivores or omnivores and have serious diseases and health issues long term from eating animals. Eating animals isn't necessary nutritionally, it's fundamentally deadly. If we had the systems for properly consuming animals we would eat them raw, but you'd have illnesses from that wouldn't you? Eating them cooked doesn't remove the reality of illness & disease either. Instead of raw consumption of animals we skin the animal, cut the flesh in portions that can be held in your hand, and cook it with plant seasonings to "eat like our ancestors did". Those same Ancestors would be disappointed at you falling for the consumerism scam companies use to profit off of your ignorance, then off of your bad health with pills, surgeries, medical procedures. They would know that they didn't eat meat because they liked it or they wanted to, they ate meat because they had no other choice. As for people living in Civilisation later on, for a long time the rich (%1) were the ones regularly eating meat as a luxury, while the peasants ate grains, fruits, vegetables. The rich always died sooner than the peasants in terms of life expectancy from diseases developed from eating dead flesh (meat), animal breast milk (dairy), & chicken periods (eggs) Cultures around the world with great "cultural food" are holding back the people that follow these cultures from progressing as a people, by trapping them in short-lived, disease-filled lives of 50-70 years. You might be here for a good time, not a long time, but some of us appreciate having good health, no disease, no joint pain, good gut health, regular excretions, no smelly farts/ body odour & a healthy brain from adequate nutrition. For the human body, animal flesh is highly acidic, fattening, cholesterol-laden, artery-clogging, lymph-clotting, mucus-forming, constipating, difficult to digest, full of worms/ parasites/ bacteria/ metabolic waste/ hormones all of which breed disease.

[@karmicbreath]

lol this is such a scam comment it's hilarious.

[@Psartz]

​@@karmicbreath These are bots, mate. They have zero other comments when you click on their profiles. It's crazy to see the lengths these people will go to spread scare-mongering.

[@Psartz]

​@@karmicbreath above two comments both are bots.

[@ja_drugoi]

I REALLY would love to see a debate between Bart Kay and Simon Hill.

[@Pascal270]

Hill is not man enough...

[@stephengeddis7364]

Bart would run circles around him

[@johnl764]

Bart is good at studies and remembering all the numbers. I would love to see that also.

[@johnferguson3918]

Haha will never happen. They pick and choose who they’re willing to debate.

[@robinsmit1632]

Bart Kay is a clown

[@kimgoetz3056]

I sat across from a 10-year vegan at Thanksgiving. They were very heavy & looked very unhealthy. We're not all the same. I like meat, and don't trust science. I also agree with following the $$'s. After looking at several of these controlled trials, they leave more questions to be answered than the answers they feel they answered.

[@jackcrook4435]

Somebody can be vegan and just eat Fake meat, fried tofu, French fries and white rice. Someone can also be vegan and eat varied diet WFPB of all types of grains, legumes and vegetables. A vegan diet is a wide net that covers a lot of different ways of eating which can be very good, or very bad, similar to regular diets.

[@mikerudd4943]

I listened to the entire pod. I have listened to both men a lot. I myself have been 95% carnivore (18 months) and continue to tweak my own path .I have stage 4. So what works for me may not or likely will not for others. For me carnivore has eliminated all of my conditions besides my cancer and I still have hope for that. I have listened to many doctors and researchers over the last 2 to 3 years on podcasts and i have designed my own path that CONTINUES to evolve and change for ME. Plants , besides my tea and coffee are not part of that experience. With 1% exceptions. I strive for my meat food to be 75 to 80% fat by calories.

[@cookielemons]

Broccoli is the leading cause of disease? This guy is special.

[@AnneMB955]

Broccoli 😝

[@TheLeopard91]

did you know broccoli is man-made? think about it

[@888jucu]

@@TheLeopard91And probably so is your dog, just think about it.

[@Noctua07]

Ahh so that is why i never liked broccoli for so long. And why I almost choked to death eating broccoli a couple of times. My life is saved now that I know the truth. :D /Sarcasm

[@jacobbuhler1433]

Everyone acting like it’s carnivore vs vegan. Simon is vegan but never tells people they have to eat 100% vegan to be healthy. But he uses science to show how important plants are in our diets and those can go along with eating some meat and dairy and animal products. Dr Kiltz sounds crazy and has so business debating Simon. Any random person could show up and tell random stories and say how they feel with no science backing. Simon please debate someone with a little more sense. Simon is the GOAT

[@stevegcq]

Dr Kiltz is not crazy but he is not suitable as a debater. Simon should debate someone like Dr. Anthony Chaffee, who would defeat Simon soundly, using his knowledge of scientific studies.

[@chrisr.6638]

Science is settled that vegans are deficient in over 20 essential nutrients, not just B12 like they like to claim

[@AnneMB955]

Plants are not important in our diet. ALL the essential nutrients can come from meat based.

[@Insight-music]

Yes he acknowledges the fact that you can incorporate some animal products and still achieve certain health goals but once you incorporate ethics you can reach those health goals and avoid unnecessary suffering of animals

[@Brukner841]

it is rational common sense vs irrational emotional ignorance. Sure, you can consume cruelly sourced animal parts and their excretions in limited amounts and not suffer major health issues, but why do it? Addiction, not compassion or common sense.

[@PowerofCarnivore]

Animal based here, mostly carnivore. Not by choice but because plant foods were making me extremely ill. When the only foods that make you feel really good are animal foods there is no question that they are the best foods for healing. Ask me that question when I was younger and could eat anything and feel fine I would have had a different answer 👋

[@lauracrowley4572]

Simon, you are a beacon of hope in this crazy world, and your patience in this "debate" was nearly super-human. It was maddening to listen to Dr. Klitz bob and weave. Please know that your efforts to get good information out to folks are not wasted. I just had a long conversation with my 23 year old daughter about how to know what and who to trust when everyone is an "influencer," and I cited you as an example of someone who bases their recommendations on the developing body of accumulated scientific evidence, who is willing to put "error bars" on their level of confidence, and willing to adjust their position based on new information, and therefore is trustworthy. Thank you.

[@rogerwelsh2335]

I can’t believe that our society has been virtually Florian to a plant based lifestyle and it has failed miserably. Look around 8 out of 10 people are visibly sick. Just fat, frail people limping and waddling around. 10 year olds are getting type 2 diabetes, Alzheimer’s disease is now being called type 3 diabetes because it like almost every disease a sugar caused disease

[@davidadamashvili2894]

Ok, let's ask yourselves a rational question, after losing tons of inflammation and weight after elimination diets, would you eat broccoli and leaf every day or steak? I would 100% go for steak.

[@JeffC26131]

💯👍🏻🥩💪🏻

[@blackpalacemusic]

I eat fruits, nuts, beans, grains, tubers, corms, stems, bulbs and leaves. Eating only steak is boring and you still have to rub it down with plants for it to taste good.

[@blacksa-tang2488]

That not true and you know it meat taste amazing, especially the more high quality it is​@@blackpalacemusic

[@shan6736]

Leaves and broccoli? The vegan diet should be filled with combinations of (organic)veggies, fruits and berries, legumes, seeds, nuts and butters, whole grain breads and rice, buckwheat, tubers and so on. Think thick sweet potato pea soup, whole grain toast with almond butter, with a side salad filled with garden veggies and seeds. That's a better representation. The bodies of the animals most people eat are injected with added testosterone, estrogen and antibiotics, which then enters the human body upon consumption....and look... as America deals with surges of hormonal breast cancer in women, prostate cancer in men, and breast development in both boys and men...

[@1timbarrett]

Good on you for misspelling the plural of ‘leaf’. That is perfect coming from someone who has healed significantly on meat. 👍 Three cheers for steak…! 🥩

[@mariachristina232]

I love this!! Fist OFF especially since i Love you Ellen and know your vegan this makes you having Dr. Kiltz on your Podcast so exciting. I have been carnivore for a lil over a year now and i have personally seen results that have been life changing. I want to say contrary to what Simon thinks, being carnivore is extremely hard! And exercises much needed self discipline. Yes “most” people would love a Ribeye diet, But “most” people cannot and will not just eat a ribeye on their plate. They would prefer a side salad, Mac and cheese and a potato with that steak. I would say it is the most unappealing diet for “most” people to just eat red meat. So I would challenge Simon to try it himself. There is nothing better then you yourself being the study.

[@johnsebastian2589]

I for one will never go to the carnivore doctor for medical treatment.

[@yourinception]

I believe this podcast embodies everything wrong with our society today. I’m not sure how Simon managed to stay so calm, but well done!

[@lululove6175]

Agree. Would wish Ellen would have invited Judy Cho, Georgia Ede or dr. natasha, not klutz

[@danellekelly1214]

@@lululove6175me too! Even when I was eating carnivore and fully in support of it, I did not listen to Kiltz. He is terribly unscientific and annoying

[@TheHomemadeHippie]

Dr. Kiltz seems very ego driven, if I’m being honest. It’s almost as if he only cares about being right, rather than having a genuine conversation about truth. Honestly, I was completely turned off to this debate. You can always tell a carnivore, based on how they act. There is lots of natural epinephrine in meat, which seems to make people on this diet very anxious, aggressive and irrational.

[@Brukner841]

great point, they're hooked like junkies and they are saying anything to rationalize it. All my friends included, it's pathetic.

[@shangstr]

After i was breast fed I was ketovore all my childhood. My mother swore by vegetables there was more vegetables than meat on my plate, I was conditioned into adulthood and was thought to be a healthy eater most my life. Until going carnivore 2 years ago that cured my mild aspergers, mild ulcerative colitis, asthma, allergies, depression, no sun burning anymore. I'm more able to adapt to a warmer climate, I sleep much better and no longer snore. I can go and go. I was recently labelled at work as the best worker and the only one with minimal time off. I was promoted A 48 year old landscaper with Zero pains for last year an half. This time 2 years ago I was thinking of getting out of landscaping because of my pains especially my shoulder that apparently needed a operation. But this is just a story, my story on this subject The same stories coming out of Harvard labelled as "science" backed. They have to believe what they're hearing is true and note it, because unless they're locking all their patients in a cage and throwing tomatoes at them to eat for science, which is unlikely, the backing is only backed by stories, true or false. You're 100% right and 100% wrong, just as much as kiltz Kiltz made this clear and he could see how easily the young guy was being triggered just by him being calm and collected and peaceful and agreeing with his 100% right 100% wrong side. Getting frustrated so easy is quite possibly a condition that might need attention. Frustration is a stress, theres nothing healthy about being easily stressed over the littlest of things, such as; a discussion about nutrition from both sides of the fence. So maybe his not as healthy as he believes. I think kiltz possibly was playing this guys current mental health status. And for that, he won the debate..

[@Dan16673]

Nah he just tipped around like a lol b8tch

[@cuteface88]

I've noticed vegans are almost always very quick to get frustrated and have a superiority complex. It seems the pro-plant guy was definitely more emotional in my opinion.

[@Dan16673]

@@cuteface88 how? he was very calm and this doctor was all over the place

[@dragan176]

Stopped reading after "mild autism"

[@cuteface88]

@@Dan16673 He was visibly annoyed. If your hormones are in check you don't get annoyed almost ever.

[@planetetrangere]

The main problem is that people who go carnivore and say they get better, we just don't know what was their diet before that. Everyone says that they had a good diet but most of them were fat so that means they did not have a good diet. If you have a shitty diet and you go carnivore, it is for sure better for your help.

[@SilverCarnivoreCoach]

I am one who went from a squeaky clean omnivorous diet to carnivore. It’s been one year and I continue to mount health improvements and build muscle at 58yo. I’ll adjust accordingly over time but, for now this way of eating is far more nourishing than how I ate for the prior decade (basically clean Paleo). But this is just *my story*.

[@Altlifestylist]

I ate organic plant whole foods for over 10 years... wrecked me! carnivore for 6.5 years and now very healthy. never fat.

[@planetetrangere]

@@Altlifestylist Sorry but we don't know what you eat.. Many people seem to have great health eating plants so just saying that you ate organic whole foods does not mean much.

[@jc2636]

DEBATE IS HEALTHY! Thank you Ellen!!!

[@robertjohn6354]

What I take from the plant/meat argument , is no one diet fits all , each individual has to find their own ideal diet to suit their body and lifestyle .

[@snowboardgirl1000]

When he said that saturated fats are bad in those studies, the people in the studies were also eating carbohydrates with those fats which is not how carnivores eat. Eating carbs with fat is not good!

[@santyx_eorrr]

why is eating carbs with fat bad?

[@Cidfloyd]

@@santyx_eorrr Look up the Randle cycle, it will tell you why

[@888jucu]

@@Cidfloyd Randals cycle is not an absolute, meaning to say the body can and does handle both macros simultaneously. If you want to talk about just one individual cell and what it chooses to let in at any particular moment of time then maybe but remember their are billions cells in our body all working at the same time and not all doing the same thing so the whole Randal cycle red herring is completely reductionist nonesense spoken about by serial cretins such a Bart "never was a professor" Kay.

[@Brukner841]

you wouldn't know.

[@stiazlarin1]

Dr Kiltz is literally just telling random stories and deflects every question - very random guy

[@pepper419]

Just as well, your vegan friend has nothing interesting to say.

[@AnneMB955]

However, he’s right…

[@Brukner841]

@@pepper419 your mind is closed, then.

[@crystalprovance3423]

Two very intelligent conversations. Thank you, gentlemen.

[@carnivore_for_future]

5 year Carnivore -400lbs and solved 26 diseases/allergys/diagnoses (my ASD is in fully remission (was 174point on RAADs.......) Plants/seedoil destroyed my health, and i'm also more or less allergic to 99.999% of all existing plants/spices... (gliadine allergy) I grew up on a standard swedish diet with seedoils and 80-90% veggies and very little meat because of poor family..

[@Ididntwantayoutubehandl]

Amazing that you've been able to figure out what helps you! And that you're now thriving! God bless you!

[@VegeCooking]

Thanks for sharing your N of 1 story.

[@williamjiraiya]

Cool anecdote bro.

[@Insight-music]

“pLaNts aRe BaD!” I’m sure that placebo is nice

[@jim5jim5jim5]

@@williamjiraiya Cute comment bro. Dis you make it up yourself?

[@saraandshe]

I'd love to see Simon Hill go head to head with Dr Ken Berry. Battle of the double blind placebo studies would ensue.

[@bell1990]

Thank you God, everything i listen to dr berry he is talking about this study or that study and breakingn it down. This guy from what I could stand to listen to only talks about stories. Which okay but studies are good too and their are some studies that support carnivore. Not a lot because it's not really studied but some

[@1timbarrett]

Or a debate between Simon Hill and Zoe Harcombe…?

[@Pascal270]

Simon Hill vs Bart Kay !!

[@toms8879]

@@bell1990 Dr. Ken Berry's SHOCKING Labs! Cardiologist Explains!. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYOldKqwqph_sJI

[@saraandshe]

@@bell1990 According to Dr Berry, there are more studies out there about low carb, ketogenic diets than veganism. I'm gonna go find those studies now.

[@ClouduSan]

Simon asked so many questions that pretty much went unanswered by Klitz... This was basically science based (good evidence) vs story based (poor evidence) the whole discussion, very frustrating.

[@paulc5389]

Check rates of red meat and saturated fat consumption over time against rates of obesity, cvd, ADHD, autism, etc. The former is reducing considerably whilst the latter is increasing exponentially. What more actual evidence do you need? Real world outcomes of the entire population >> bias studies that assume unproven or even disproven hypothesis as fact.

[@1timbarrett]

Simon also interrupted a lot. I really wish he hadn’t done that. 😢

[@ClouduSan]

@@paulc5389 Those diseases are multi-factorial so claiming that red meat and saturated fat consumption being higher or lower is "actual evidence" is inaccurate at best. Are you implying that women giving birth at an older age nowadays vs 50 years ago doesn't affect any of those? or that the detection tools or the amount of testing done these days for autism\ADHD for example doesn't affect the amount of diagnoses?

[@ClouduSan]

@@1timbarrett There's nothing wrong with a bit of interrupting when it's a discussion and not a monologue. He wasn't being rude and they both talked politely, I don't know what specifically bothered you.

[@paulc5389]

@ClouduSan I don't disagree it's nuanced. That's entirely my point. The plant based crowd cling to meat and saturated fat being the driving cause of diet driven disease. The inverse trend of both would be impossible if that was the case.

[@nicoarnold2200]

Since I got tired of hearing "trust the science" I started to learn these things for myself. Works great and learning a lot from these two gentlemen.

[@trishstauble3461]

Wow. Thanks for participating in this conversation, Simon. Difficult to listen to Dr. Kiltz. Science should underpin food choices. Dr. Kiltz appears to place anecdotes above science to make food choices. I've been six years whole food, plant based and so happy to have found this eating pattern. Type II diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity...all are addressed by this diet. I'm 71 and don't need any medications. My asthma even resolved. Healthy food matters ! Thanks Ellen for hosting this conversation.

[@bodyatwar]

8 years whole food plant based… after being paleo for 12. Currently aging backwards and have reversed lupus, type 2 diabetes, hashimotos and PCOS. There’s a story to contribute to the pool of “story”.

[@SashZ]

The problem with just relying on the data, is that people in the pharma industry, food industry, research industry, etc, have become experts at manipulating data in order to get the results that they want. The results are often for the benefit of all of these industries so that they can sell you more products that will make you more sick so that they can make more profits. People need to realize that plants products are significantly more profitable than animals based products. I'm carnivore, everything I have read about my diet has told me that it would kill me, and the carnivore diet has completely healed my chronic illnesses that I spent more then a decade trying to fix with no success. I get bloodwork done on a regular basis. The damage that was done to my circulatory system from years of bad eating and damage from chronic inflammation has not only stopped but also completely changed course and is now in reversal. Carnivore dieters know the effects of a true carnivore diet. People who talk against it, either did not follow the diet properly (which is very difficult to do) or have never experienced it to understand why it's becoming so popular. Something people also need to understand is that there is almost no data about a true carnivore diet available because almost no studies have been done on it. All of the data that is being done is not being compared to a carnivore diet, it's being compared to a regular diet. So if a data set says people who eat more fibre do better. Compared to who? You can't just compare that to someone eating meat, you have to compare it to someone who is eating meat and lots of fat. Those studies don't exist. Often times the studies will cherry pick certain data and leave out other data that might give a more accurate picture of why you see certain results.

[@OzzieBird]

It is so refreshing to have a discussion between professionals as this video brings us. Both guests do a great job of sharing their opinions and remaining controlled in their answers. I hope other channels follow the example this channel creator shared with us.

[@jtt5277]

Should be obvious one food has been eaten for hundreds of thousands of years and the other was created last thousand years.

[@Insight-music]

Most humans, native Americans etc actually ate 80%+ plants. Get you’re facts straight. All this is just assumption humans were hunting 24/7. People migrated in winter where plants could still grow. Only few stayed in extreme environments where hunting year round was more necessary.

[@jtt5277]

@ read my comment, they arrived there 15 thousands years ago. Before that it was meat broccoli head. What did they eat before, meat for 100k years. But please eat gruel and never feel the extreme benefits of a mostly meat diet.

[@leviahimsa]

​@@jtt5277 The digestive system of all hominids and primates species, including homosapiens (humans), are frugivorous. - Dr. Alan Walker, Johns Hopkins University

[@SarymaryQuiteContrary]

I'm sorry, but it is really hard to deem a person "credible" when his scientific basis which he confides in the most is, quote : "His grandmother" (and her not being madame curie that is).

[@mattnhormann]

"Doctor" Kiltz's sources: *"Trust me, bro."*

[@jitkasmejkalova7331]

This is so so good podcast and discussion! 👏🏼

[@ArgoBeats]

As Carnivore, get Richard Smith and you'll have a fair debate.

[@edwardscott2510]

Have you tried human meat it's got to be better than animal

[@maevey3]

Needs must & all that 😊​@@edwardscott2510

[@Brukner841]

you people are like flat earthers man, you need to be educated, not make your own rules.

[@ArgoBeats]

@Brukner841 you need to respect other people’s opinions and not make stupid comparisons, there are thousands of people having fixed their issue thanks to low carb or carnivore diets. And the real science is there, too. If you want to know how things *really* work, read the yellow and blue books by Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride.

[@Altlifestylist]

@@ArgoBeats seriously, he's delusional!

[@melindatagg]

Ellen, I must say, your video editing is AMAZING! You are doing such an awesome job with this 🙌

[@Chris90.]

what video editing? cutting back and forth between Simon and Kiltz? and then her plug? Lol

[@melindatagg]

@Chris90. 😅 haha well obviously she isn't making a movie. I Am just referring to thw start of the video and how she has progressed from her early days. I think they are well done!

[@1timbarrett]

@@Chris90.I don’t mind her plug for the vegan toiletries, because that’s all plants should be used for, right? Out of respect for plants there is no way I’ll be picking them and eating them and shipping them halfway around the world for my precious little poké bowls. 😮

[@Chris90.]

@@1timbarrett I used her plug as just an example of another edit she used for the video production. not the fact it was a plug

[@Chris90.]

@@melindatagg oh I got you. I'm sure the production quality has evolved quite a bit!

[@Marko-2410]

No surprise that the guy wearing a cross is the one trying to convince us that stories are more important than science.

[@brececlark4076]

Yessss

[@susans7091]

When Dr Kiltz talked about fat I had to get up and go eat a frozen butter bite! Interesting that he calls fat animal fat, and oil from vegetables. found Simon Hill confusing on going into complex terminology. I was not eating ultraprocessed foods, but when I ate vegetables parts of them ended up in the toilet and I had a terrible time with digestion. I ate lots of nuts and seeds and 'healthy' oils like olive, coconut, etc. plus lots of vegetables, almost no sugars. I tried going vegetarian and became very anemic and other problems. I tried the Mediterranean diet as well. I had to take many supplements. I am 78, now carnivore for 18 months and do not have so many problems that I had. My arthritis pain is gone, anemia gone, hand tremors gone, cardiologist took me off of heart medication, etc. I went from 6 meds to one and from 16 supplements to 4. When people tell me now they eat a 'healthy' diet I want to know what they mean by that, and how long they have been eating 100% that way. Normally when I talk to someone who said they tried a carnivore diet they often were eating processed foods that claim to be keto, or were only on it 'most' of the time. Simon Hill is right, we need to be able to look 20 or 30 years down the road. Please tell me how you are going to get people to stick to a strict enough way of eating for that period of time to be tracked, unless they choose to do so. Most 'published' studies are only observational type studies based on things like asking people what they ate in the last year or years. Not sure if that is research in my mind. It is always interesting to look at who funded a study. Many of them are looking for a certain outcome. I would like to ask Simon if the change in diet between saturated fat and seed oils still included carbs and sugars. Possibly high saturated fat and high carb/sugar combo is the problem. A carnivore diet is high saturated fat but has no sugar and carbs. My LDL is low on a carnivore diet.

[@EarmuffHugger]

I started eating fatty meat & ditched all plants & my body odor is totally gone! What does this mean?

[@739jep]

That you had a shower 🤷‍♂️

[@iwnunn7999]

Means u started bathing

[@VerySeriousUser]

Happened to me too. I rarely have any spices but some bring it back within a day for me even if they are all in very small amounts.

[@eoinfelim]

Probably less to detox. That is just a guess though.

[@JeffC26131]

Carnivore naysayers would simply write off your extraordinary experience as just another “story.”

[@renehache]

While I don't like debates turning into shouting matches, this an instance where Dr Kiltz's "niceness" and "positivity" was so disingenuous and fake that the podcast was at best difficult to listen to, and absolutely infuriating at times. I may have developed PTSD from hearing the word "stories" so many times. He talked for about half of this podcast, yet for that 1 hour and 20 minutes pretty much said nothing significant or insightful and never answered a question directly.

[@Mimi-wz7ff]

All I know is when I went strictly carnivore all my psoriasis has gone away. As well as gave me more energy and my migraines went away. I also was eating what I thought was a well balanced low processed foods diet before I went carnivore as well. To each their own, but carnivore changed my life.

[@LeahBreHappy]

Do you eat fruits and veggies ever?

[@Mimi-wz7ff]

@@LeahBreHappy No I don’t eat any.

[@rogerwelsh2335]

@@LeahBreHappy Plants are the cause I had the same result going beef,eggs, and butter only

[@iwnunn7999]

Can't believe Simon agreed to participate. Patience of job.

[@srikkdoc]

The following factors raise your risk for peptic ulcers: Drinking too much alcohol. Regular use of aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, or other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) Smoking cigarettes or chewing tobacco. Being very ill, such as being on a breathing machine. Radiation treatments. Stress.