Debate with James Allsup over Subsidization of Birth Control

[@TonyCox1351]

I like when the guy said “no one talks about the side effects of birth control” when in reality every woman talks about the side effects of birth control.

[@GregPeden]

Giving people $1000 for birth control = sin Giving people $1000 for accepting sterilization = DOIN' GOD'S WORK

[@dwaynetherickscanchez3160]

Romano Coombs ok idiot I know I’m late but that is a lie. Drinking blood is a sin surgery isn’t at all mentioned and sterilisation is a sin

[@coolsupercoolmario]

It's similar to the negative income tax vs more welfare programs and spending argument, and negative income tax was actually proposed by Milton Friedman so it sounds consistent to me.

[@binodshrestha1553]

gawd work n' mysteryz wayz

[@Seydlitz338]

lol it's so easy to make your argument perfect and make the others look like shit... i assure you killing a fetus and ripping it's body parts off of it 1 by 1 is nothing compared to stopping the fetus from being killed in the first place

[@beyoncehadoneofthebest]

Phuk Yu not priceless- $1000

[@broudwauy]

It may be sexual degeneracy, but when you become a Lvl. 11 Priest, it actually upgrades to sexual regeneracy! Pretty good spell if you ask me.

[@jameszoeller1517]

James Allsup uses Buck v Bell, a ruling that favored the forced sterilization of undesirable american citizens, as a positive example of the government placing responsibility directly on the poor for their own decisions but claims that subsided birth control goes to far in violating the moral objections of taxpayers. What the heck, dude.

[@JoshBeach]

Because secretly he wants white people to breed but is totally super cool with sterilizing black people

[@oopsiepoopsie2898]

@@JoshBeach like the Nazi’s. I used this guys videos like a few of them. I had no idea he was like this. I wish I had actually watched the debates the anti SJW’s were in. I would have left that phase way sooner.

[@LackingSaint]

I JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT CULTURE

[@LackingSaint]

>Why wouldn't you? Probably because conversations about "How I feel the culture is changing" is about 99% of the time based entirely on anecdotes or just straight-up gut feeling. If you mean it's Destiny's weakness as in his weakness is being asked to argue purely against someone's feelings, yes, 'talking about culture' is Destiny's weakness.

[@waterwaters]

Sub Roy hadn't heard kierkegaard named in this yet LMAo

[@ksilva2848]

@@waterwaters me neither, now I'm going to search it up! Indoctrination successful

[@MadJackChurchill1312]

DarkEternal6 Because it’s not data-driven, it’s just a person ranting about Breitbart headlines for 3 hours.

[@randythetool]

I don't disagree with any of this but I still don't want women to have control over their medical decisions because I'm galaxy brain man.

[@rightofleft6280]

And by "control" you mean "get it paid for by someone else" xD If you can't do your best to represent the reality of the discussion you're doing it a disservice.

[@frbe0101]

I rather pay her birthcontrol then pay later for the social damage her unwanted womb turds cause.

[@arbeter98]

Nice slippery slope argument friendo, lack of abortion/birth control=/ instant murder. Give me one statistic where lack of abortion/birth control leads to higher crime rates. I can link you plenty that involve single motherhood, which is the actual core issue. Abortion doesn't solve the problem of single motherhood, or else it would have already. Good attempt though, you really tried.

[@marcpelletier2700]

Whoever has the responsibility of paying for the vagina deserves the most say in what's happening to it. "Female" birth control costs more than condoms anyway, which are usually covered or found for free at health clinics. Just because the man is the one wearing it, doesn't mean it doesn't protect the woman from getting pregnant.

[@frbe0101]

toXicMonkeY, where have you been for the last 20 years? Just google "abortion low crime"! Do you know how many more single mothers we would have without abortion??? But please present your solution to the problem of single mothers.

[@questal25]

What a lot of people seem to overlook is that some women literally need birth control to cope with certain hormonal changes or due to their periods being so severe they're not functional. It should be covered under healthcare

[@NocturnalIntuition]

some? you're talking about an extremely small minority

[@questal25]

@@NocturnalIntuition Over half of women on the pill take for either wholly or partly different reasons other than pregnancy prevention. They also have a 30-50% lowered risk of ovarian cancer www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/other-benefits-birth-control

[@NocturnalIntuition]

Rabbit did you even read your link ? 14% take it only for other reasons than birth control . Birth control is the most common reason women take the pill. What you said was completely false. You’re trying to extrapolate something that you can’t really get from what is being said. There can be hundreds of reasons for taking birth control on top of the pregnancy prevention but that does not automatically mean some medical benefit . The only concrete number there was 14% take it strictly for some other reason than pregnancy prevention . That means 86% take it for the pregnancy prevention , and then may also take it for some other benefit on the side . So again a very small minority. If someone’s period is so severe that they’re not functional , they are more likely to fall into that 14%. Not certainly but more likely

[@questal25]

@@NocturnalIntuition The next sentence literally says over half take it for reasons other than pregnancy

[@NocturnalIntuition]

Rabbit no it doesn’t 😂 it says they took it at least in part for reasons other than pregnancy prevention . That means their primary reason is still pregnancy prevention . Stop interpreting things in ways that are convenient to you.

[@gemino4910]

Even if you disagree with this guy, he was respectful. For once it didn't end with a massive sperg out.

[@SatterfieldDesign]

I just came here from the gun control debate with Biggs and Allsup was a complete buffoon in that one. You're giving him too much credit. He kept calling Destiny "little" since that's the best argument he can come up with. James Allsup is a sad loser who has no actual convictions except whatever his right wing idols and parents tell him to believe.

[@Thaheadband33]

Allsup is a white nationalist.

[@Jalmerk]

It was refreshing to see a debate with no yelling

[@BillClay88]

@@Thaheadband33 Is white nationalism so horrible? White supremacy is.. big difference. You want the best ppl to keep the country from becoming a shithole, right? How is that bad or racist? Are western countries not the best on the planet? Why is that?

[@takfreak11]

@@BillClay88 white nationalism is evil and your line of reasoning is grounded in racism and genocidal apologism.

[@afroplasm5956]

Whether or not women should be given access to government provided contraceptives should depend on if they have a 91% white soul with minimal Amerindian ancestry in my opinion.

[@jackrutledgegoembel5896]

Wh

[@benh735]

What

[@ImVicBlanco]

Are you proud of what you wrote there?

[@nickishar1772]

John Waters yes it obviously is are you kidding me

[@SnorkCosmodix]

Birth control sounds like a great idea to prevent a problem before it occurs, so why limit? Who stands to gain from restricting access to birth control, even from a moral standpoint?

[@Antnj81]

Snork Cosmodix birth control is really inexpensive. A pack of condoms at a CVS is like at most $2. If you can afford that, then you can't afford the potential baby you could make in case the birth control fails - which is never absolute anyway.

[@spacedoohicky]

Birth control did not cause a higher out-of-wedlock birth rate. And who gives a shit about marriage. It's a dumb reason for not supporting access to birth control.

[@spacedoohicky]

@B VV Though free birth control would support access to birth control. Though I'm not sure it's free. The cost is definitely prohibitive to access.

[@RanEncounter]

@@Antnj81 Do you think people are capable of doing that kind of reasoning when having sex? Having no money does not prohibit people from having sex.

[@Andrew-fi1sd]

@@Antnj81 People are going to have sex regardless. Condoms are one of the shittiest versions of birth control out there. There are methods that are not only more effective, but they don't get in the way of actually enjoying sex either.

[@Notoriousalcoholic]

Also birth control does not cause weight gain, this is a huge misconception. what happens is the the hormonal change can cause your appetite to increase, what you do with that appetite increase is what can cause weight gain. Nothing in birth control metabolically changes you to get "fat". Also, there are people who NEED birth control. I am bed bound and anemic without birth control because my endometriosis is so bad, the only other option to treating that (that Allsup was alluding to be the 'better option') would be getting laproscopic surgery every few months everytime the endometrial fluid grows back. So i mean, i think its easy to see that taking the pill every day is definitely the actual better, safer option.

[@nathanbruce1992]

Ksenia Amber: yeah, there are fed benefits. My ex gf has been on birth control since she was 15 because she had an ovarian cyst and it also helps regulate her period. I had heard about the weight gain but didn’t know it was because of appetite, interesting stuff

[@bananian]

Or remove uterus?

[@NickHopkinsMedia]

Stupid ass bitch

[@eliza1826]

Holy shit always wanted to go on it to gain weight but nevermind then

[@sky19804]

Yeah not true. My diet didn't change at all and I still gained weight.

[@aimeeterese7050]

It violates the first amendment for me to subsidise these broads gaining weight.

[@MrKiingpin]

Aimee Lawrence how the fuck do you have so many subs

[@DaneAraux]

MrKiingpin ....9?

[@tadeuszbanku2329]

MrKiingpin because her pictures good looking?

[@havenandaura]

Nobody's being forced to take it, smdh

[@abuelita5740]

@@havenandaura some people have health problems where they need to take birth control.

[@Ryan-kf6xu]

Government is (supposed to be) a coalition of the people. Why wouldn't the people put measures in place to protect themselves?

[@harshitmadan6449]

Government = Mafia Taxation = Theft

[@donovanwheeler4906]

Harshit Madan agreed

[@Explotato]

This debate is the PERFECT example of moving the goal posts. In the end, in order for him to just not concede the point, he starts to debate the morality of "Sexual Degeneracy" and start making up negative effect of it. Good Job D.

[@bzwsmile]

D E G E N E R A C Y

[@Will9c]

haha all the spergs in the comments freak out when that word is used.

[@xaviercockerton6989]

L I B T A R D S

[@goodtwogo]

Destiny is a bugman

[@FukU2222]

@@goodtwogo amen

[@meganaxelia]

You are un-ironically a degenerate if you can’t help sleeping around without frivolously and without birth control and getting someone else or yourself pregnant. Learn some responsibility and self control instead of relying on your birth control.

[@vXn-vXn]

James allsups argument for every debate always falls on the existence of African Americans

[@catacid_]

sexual degeneracy got me, that was the argument that made the "ok, were done" sign pop up

[@KRiderMan1248]

Its literally "let me tell you how to live your life" type of shit.

[@catacid_]

@Mr Sir pro what? the fuck is thot? Im against someone imposing his fucking morality on someone LUL, and the degeneracy "argument" was just that, apart from the fact it was all he had because he clinged to it from the first use till the end of the talk. Hmmmm should be make everyones life a little better or try and not let teenagers do what my grandma wouldnt want them to do cause church says so. Cause we can definetly stop em

[@StabilAmboss]

+Bartosz B Wanting people to live with decency is met with hostility by the left, typical. LUL.

[@demand1443]

“bleeding out of her whatever”, my wife is prettier than Ted’s wife, Ted’s dad killed JFK, shushing Jeb, “punch them in the face... i’ll pay the legal fees”, references penis size at political debate ect.

[@fullmetalsnowflake2508]

I kind of bore with it for a bit, and then ten minutes later got forced sterilisation. From now on, I think I'll take it as more of a sign

[@johnneidlinger4485]

"We should allow insurers to choose not to cover things under moral reasons" "People shouldn't have the right to choose to have sex" Alright...

[@ty2010]

They can choose sex all they want, others shouldn't have to pay for it.

[@ty2010]

Where principle meets pragmatism, why not eugenics?

[@johnneidlinger4485]

Fireproof Troll We can debate eugenics if you want, but I'd like to imagine you're not stupid enough to think offering someone a pill is the same as forcing them to get possibly irreversible surgery.

[@ty2010]

Depending on activity level, it's much cheaper than condoms, those next? People often injure themselves during sex, cover the various harnesses?

[@ty2010]

That and any system that shares costs with CA can fuck right off, not paying for their self inflicted hep a and HIV epidemics.

[@magus12345678]

>Grumble grumble SEXUAL DEGENERACY grumble grumble I've never had so many lights go on in my head at once ever

[@westingtyler1]

haha ditto. i think this exposes that this person's objection has nothing to do with health or liberty, but is instead due to some irrational religious hangup.

[@MadJackChurchill1312]

I SAY I SAY DEGENERACAH!

[@JoshBeach]

@@westingtyler1 he's white nationalist he's just mad about black people breeding

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

@@JoshBeach What utter nonsense. It's precisely abortion that's keeping the black population's numbers in the US stable. Arguing against "birth control" would have the opposite effect to what you're claiming.

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

@@MickaelChiasson Degeneracy isn't an arbitrary consideration. It's ultimately rooted in biology. Most behaviors described as degenerate are those that ultimately result in a weakening of a particular group's ability to thrive and increase its numbers. It's not hard to see why encouraging hedonistic lifestyles or promiscuous sex would be an example of something people would refer to as "degenerate." These things interfere with the ability of a society to focus on its collective well-being and increasing its birth rates. It's ultimately rooted in biology but humans have the habit of expressing deep-seated evolutionary instincts in higher metaphysical terms, e.g. religious, cultural etc. You can argue against him on many fronts but to say the "degenerate" label is totally arbitrary is disingenuous.

[@cam9378]

Fuckin hell, Allsup got dragged. Very effective arguments, Birthstiny.

[@ariajade7852]

Some women use birth control to help extreme pain, myself included. Insurance should absolutely cover it.

[@finn3224]

but muh sexual degeneracy /s

[@DODIRTT]

Uh so I'm at 34:35 and my white nationalist detector is going off. His counter for teen pregnancy in Southern states was to split it into racial demographics when the claim was from destiny wasn't that white southerns only have this issue. It was generally about the souther population. Now to be fair he's probably not a white nationalist but it's a trick most white nationalist use when talking about specific problems in America. They split the white population and black population as a counter as a attempt to blame the issue on the black population I don't remember the numbers off hand but when you compare white conservatives to white liberals the conservatives have similar or a slight edge on teen pregnancy and sex before marriage than white liberals dispite the abstinence programs. Mentioning the black population is just a deflection and ultimately doesn't help their case. The black population is also very religious as well and can actually be used as a example as why the abstinence programs don't work.

[@mclazerz8931]

There's also the fact that black men are disproportionately incarcerated leaving mothers on their own raising children

[@Theotherotherhand]

A much better debate then most of destinies debates. While I dissagree with most everything james allsup is arguing he is doing so in a much more reasonable manner than other people he has talked to such as nobullshit or other figures.

[@tunatallica]

Yossi Lerner I will take a debate with Allsup any day over No Bullshit

[@anybody2501]

Calling allsup "reasonable" is a stretch. "respectful," or "calm" is more appropriate.

[@noahm44]

@@anybody2501 you don't sound smart.

[@manicallydepressedclown8064]

Thats why allsup is so dangerous, hes a white nationalist who comes off as a reasonable guy

[@alexh2947]

That's why he got banned from youtube

[@wXingVinny]

I disagreed with James but I'm glad that for once the person debating Destiny seems actually intelligent and well spoken (I know this doesn't make him right or informed but still), open to consider facts, admitting the weaknesses of his points, and is staying civil and polite throughout the debate. I wish more debates went like this, although a meme one once in a while can be fun as well.

[@wXingVinny]

@Lydia Being evil or not is separate from being intelligent or not. I think you might be misunderstanding something. For example, I'd consider Vladimir Putin a relatively evil person, but I'd also consider him very intelligent. Obviously James Allsup is not a model citizen by any means, but he could be intelligent nonetheless, at least he seems so. He's factually incorrect and probably driven by hate to a point where it clouds his judgement, sure, but again, nothing to do with intelligence.

[@SomethingImpromptu]

Lol took him till 18:00 to get to the point- “sexual degeneracy.” Theeeere we go. This guy is just pissed that women are having lots of sex. It’s kind of funny listening to the way people like this dress it up as “Oh, I’m just concerned- I care about the negative effects that sexual degeneracy’ have on these *godforsaken harlots.*” Also, at 33:54 this really reminds me of the articles by people like Megan McArdle when they’re like “Yes, naloxone nasal sprays literally save hundreds/thousands of lives of people who overdose on opioids with no serious side effects or health costs... But by giving them a med that can keep them from dying of overdose, aren’t we just encouraging them to use heroin more irresponsibly?” Lol you have to be a real *moral degenerate* to think this way... Just say it: you’d prefer a world in which the people who don’t follow your conservative ethical system die or live in misery in ways we could’ve easily prevented, because they were icky and bad anyway, so who cares? F Megan McArdle and F James Allsup. The fact that these people think they have a moral high ground is evidence of how demented they are.

[@TrevorHayes]

I love how Allsup ignores the point by implying that the employer is really paying for the insurance. That's a benefit conferred upon me for MY LABOR. I PAY FOR IT.

[@seth2451]

well, no, because you could pay for it yourself and still make the same wages.

[@johngr1747]

Person: We should do this to help society. Conservative: BU-BUT SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THAT!!

[@FuddlyDud]

Help society by subsidizing carefree sex? Last time I checked, carefree sex brought us a proliferation of sexually transmitted diseases and #MeToo. Unless the economic debate is against unwanted pregnancies, then maybe get a guy that can handle the pullout method :P

[@ryanhynes6596]

Idk what Allsup debated since I haven't watched the video. But please tell me how does subsidized birth control help society? And nah, its not that "some people don't like it", but why should people who have a moral/personal opposition to it be forced to subsidize it through taxpayer money? And it can be argued that it is better for society if people hold themselves personally responsible for their own decisions, instead of care free subsidized stuff. I know personal and social responsibility is increasingly a foreign concept, but can we all try a bit?

[@FuddlyDud]

@@ryanhynes6596 Full agreement here Ryan! Personal responsiblity is far more effective than government subsidized handouts taking its place!

[@OneEyeShadow]

@@FuddlyDud Abstinence Only Education says hello.

[@FuddlyDud]

@@OneEyeShadow I agree with that education. ;) Why do you think abstinence is so frowned upon in postmodern society?

[@AmineSamus]

"The free market will dictate" Love to worship the free market like a god.

[@0Fyrebrand0]

I feel like this guy would let his kid run loose in a busy highway, and just shrug it off: "Eeehhh, I'm not worried, the free market will take care of him."

[@MultiAsdag]

Free market is god.

[@xXMisterTempestXx]

A false god.

[@aquaprofile]

Forgot we gotta let the government control everything. If something that democrats regulated fails entirely it’s because they didn’t regulate it hard enough! I mean just take a look at literally any metropolitan area. Chicago, Detroit, etc. been ran by dems for decades! We need stricter regulation! Pathetic

[@harshitmadan6449]

Free markets are nothing but manifestation of free people

[@Luparf]

"There's a lot of strong arguments to be made for voluntary paid sterilisation" You mean.... birth control? Couldn't we just use birth control instead of sterilising you for life? This guy doesn't seem too smart.

[@CbarMiiXaaS]

Luparf Shinju you're not thinking hard enough...

[@wegood563]

Luparf Shinju sterilization is better because then we won’t have to pay for contraceptions regularly

[@fehufahrenheit9986]

Sterilization doesn't terminate a human life.

[@Neoflares]

@@fehufahrenheit9986 neither does birth control????

[@idkman2633]

Cut the balls! lol

[@poly.morphine]

The fundamental problem with Allsup's argument: - He says contraceptives are just a band-aid to the problem of irresponsible sex that leads to having children, which I agree with to a certain degree. The problem is though, he thinks the solution to this is simply personal responsibility. - If personal responsibility alone could solve the problem, the problem would never have existed at all. - You can't then rip off the band-aid and not expect the bleeding to continue as before when the band-aid was applied to treat the wound, the problem still exists under the bandage. - Whether it "should" or not, the solution doesn't actually end with "personal responsibility," you have to follow it through to *why* personal responsibility alone isn't cutting it. You have to address things like poverty and the poor education that results from it. - You can't have your cake and eat it too - you can't expect reality to operate what you think is ideal just because you pass legislation that has heavier consequences if you don't. - Either James is delusional and thinks like Sargon that personal willpower can and will solve all problems, or he doesn't want to address these underlying issues becasue they too require more investment in the betterment of minorities. I mean, the dude sounds fairly intelligent. Im not sure if his thinking is just fundamentally flawed on a lower level, or he is blinded by his political bias, or he is actually just racist (which there is a lot of evidence supporting this possibility as well) and this is all another "logical" deflection of the real issue, which is directly race-related. Who fucking knows anymore...

[@Sam-py9qq]

dia morphine Only good comment I've seen thus far, displaying some better cognitive skills than when you tried to debate race on Sean's channel at least, good job.

[@ogroamericano3524]

@@Boredasfuck29 how is that racist?

[@EditorKody]

@@ogroamericano3524 Kind of an old comment, but I wanted to reply anyway for whoever may read this in the future. If you look at James' Wikipedia page it states: "James Orien Allsup (born September 7, 1995) is an American far-right political commentator, podcaster, and former KZbin personality. Allsup has been described as a white supremacist. He has stated that he prefers the term "American nationalist." He is a member of the American Identity Movement, a white nationalist and neo-Nazi organization."

[@chetgaines1289]

lol this dude just went full eugenics.

[@havenandaura]

@u wot m8 Whataboutism

[@luffysmoukou7866]

u wot m8 No as opposed to genetics

[@allanballan275]

Eugenics is good, it is already encoded i nature, survival of the fittest, we had 50% child mortality up until around 150 years ago after that accumulation of people with suboptimal and maladapative genes has increased ie liberals.

[@chetgaines1289]

@@allanballan275 no, this is pseudoscientific bullshit. take a course.

[@allanballan275]

@@chetgaines1289 Not an argument

[@3G_Bloke]

you guys talked about "chicken" and "eggs" for over an hour? Dayum you guys must be HUNGRY

[@ToTheNines87368]

Destiny you should do these debates and release them as podcasts as well. I think you'd do well in that formate. Cheers.

[@finn3224]

his editor uploads the videos to youtube, but send destiny an email and he's much more likely to see this

[@SourBitters]

27:50 Hoooly shit now he's talking about sterilizing people, again. Send help. How does Destiny do this with a straight face?

[@Yatsura2]

Experience. A fuckton lot of experience. If you think this debate was abysmal, you should stop right now and not watch any other debate on this channel. Its for your sanity man :(

[@cooldead]

He was wrong from the get go. A business paying for insurance is a form of pay. If you pay me a salary I should be able to do whatever I want with my salary.

[@m0zric]

Alek Mitev Why not? The employer should not be able to limit what kind of care the employee is entitled to, that’s fucking asinine to begin with. But oh, ’tis America after all. Having sex is a healthy part of life and reproductive medicine should therefore be part of any basic insurance plan. To say otherwise is misguided and profoundly short-sighted. It’s destructive. It borders on anti-intellectual.

[@XNaturalPhenomenonX]

Contraception does not encourage kids to have sex. They already have sex. Not much is going to change that. We give them contraception to prevent babies and disease.

[@KONgFUPANDAXO]

I think destiny have the better argument here

[@elnegro115]

Lmfao! No shit!

[@assuming9735]

Cankerous Booch lol

[@jakacky]

I bet you're young who gets all your views from cukiny

[@jackskellingtonsora]

I was taking this somewhat seriously. And then he said "sexual degeneracy," and I laughed. It was all downhill from there. It became just as cancerous and memey as I hoped. You know someone's going to be a shitty person with shitty opinions when they use the word "degenerate" unironically.

[@ToLWaM]

thinking that devolving our sociopolitical and economic system into the worst aspects of 1950s american society with the worst aspects of the 1920s american economy would bring back some non-existant golden age warrants a diagnosis of psychosis

[@Amonfobious]

"Definitely i think that's all true but something vague about sexual degeneracy"

[@Para199x]

DESTINY PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LOOK UP THE MEANING OF THE WORD EQUIVOCATE!

[@Sunnywastakentoo]

"Why should employers have to pay for these things that have side effects?" Local man argues for abolition of employers providing health insurance.

[@christopherr6284]

As a pharmacist, I cringe listening to this guy try to explain why OC is a bad thing. "There are side effects." OMFG Kill me now.

[@hopedream11]

What's OC? Over the Counter?

[@christopherr6284]

@@hopedream11 Oral Contraceptive.

[@chembabe8264]

I cant even comprehend this line of thinking. Having insurance doesn't necessarily pay for birth control... it sounds like they don't even want that to be a conversation to be had with a doctor. And you have to pay for insurance your employer provides so wtf is this argument that the employer is footing the whole bill???

[@joninosaka]

This idea that welfare subsidies encourages childbirth is B.S. Here in Japan, we have a underpopulation/low birthrate problem and the government SPECIFICALLY subsidizes its citizens to have babies. We got a fat check for $1000 just for having Japanese citizen babies and recieved a monthly stipend for around $100 a month per baby (based on income). We also have National healthcare and healthcare for kids is significantly cheaper than for adults. The govt. desperately WANTS us to have more babies, but guess what? The birthrate has not changed and even though getting the money is certainly VERY helpful, I just don't want to have more than two babies. Pregnancy and childrearing is SUPER difficult and raising kids is super expensive. Subsidies are not going to change that.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Value arguments really have no place in regards to how it affects society as a whole. You should primarily look at the concrete aspects, such as economics and quality of living.

[@supergamergrill7734]

@@alpine8186 .... No.. Just no. How is subsidizing woman birth control bankrupting us spiritually. I hate abortions and if a baby doesn’t get made because of birth control then good. Then it doesn’t have to die from a suction tube.

[@JohnDoe-sp3dc]

@@alpine8186 please define "spirituality" and then tell me how a society that prioritizes increasing the quality of life for its citizens doesn't have it.

[@JohnDoe-sp3dc]

@@alpine8186 I'd love to know how you determined that sexual liberation has made people less happy too.

[@takeshikovach5165]

@@alpine8186 no

[@takeshikovach5165]

@@alpine8186 no

[@ParkerStanfieldFilm]

Nothing abhors me more about Allsup than when he tries to appeal to morality. He does it all the time and it's so obnoxious because his own morals are, at the very best and most generous, suspect.

[@TheStatisticalPizza]

My dad and grandfather were both felons, I just got a BS in Computer Science and I've never been arrested. My brother owns his own business and has two kids, he's also never been arrested and he's in his 30's. Should we be sterilized?

[@jesperburns]

Depends on the type, no? I won't watch this entire exchange but I can't imagine any of them arguing for: petty criminal -> sterilise Violent psychopath though... I think there's an argument for it.

[@Basteal]

When an early twenties male can say 'sexual degeneracy' unironically. This is the religious right's power at work. It makes it ok for you to be ignorant and cowardly when it comes to developing deeper interpersonal relationships with pretty much everybody.

[@harshitmadan6449]

He's alt right. He's not religious.

[@donovanofarrell3986]

Articulate discussion? In my Destiny? It's been a while, boys.

[@Worr]

It's interesting that early in the video he talks about side-effects being an argument against birth control pills around 34:00 he says that birth control pills enables young people to engage in sexual activity without consequences. Can't have it both ways, right?

[@alladeenblyat6597]

Worr you’re viewing these as single variables, there are many interactions at play here..

[@spacedoohicky]

@alladeen blyat What are "these" variables? And how is religious freedom not a single variable?

[@tomsimcox5066]

Allsup got an unwanted pregnancy in this debate.

[@TheAwesomoe]

19:33 I need a break after that. How destiny could just leave it like that is beyond me, it's like letting someone talk about how the earth is flat or how vaccines cause autism without mentioning it. The whole idea of sexual purity is based on insecurity or (/and) history, let me know if you know another reason. Of course people who are promiscuous will perform worse in relationships, they live the single lifestyle for a reason. For having talked about causation and correlation it sure seems weird to just let that one pass. It does not cause (which he outright says) people to be worse in relationships, to make that argument is completely ridiculous. Of course it will result in higher rates of sexual diseases, that's just plain obvious. I've never seen a solid argument for it, and I can think of a few aggregate reasons for its existence. Higher relationship partners leads to evolutionary advantage based on biology and DNA, it leads to more insight about the different walks of life, it can lead to more freedom as a character as you seek what you enjoy. If you want to make the argument that the method for hooking up is wrong, i.e. partying, then that's a completely different thing. People might be afraid that there won't be any stable relationships, and the "good girls" will instead be hooking up when they should be in a relationships in their 30s. First of all, we all have biological clocks that point us toward relationships, these things tend to work themselves out. There are exceptions, but assuming a broad generalization, and human behaviour keeps us monogamous. These are some of the big factors at play here, the historical and narrow-minded slutshaming has never been the reason as to why relationships work. Such a loaded term as sexual degeneracy just flies on casually by in the conversation.

[@a_doggo]

Oh please, let me have an 18 year old kid in a suit regulate the free market of sex. PLEASE! I NEED IT!

[@wfjhDUI]

25:23 "HERE WE GO BOYS" in the chat as soon as the "it's their choice" argument starts, lol

[@benkrapf]

No pro-birth conservative should oppose subsidized birth control.

[@Flaks4x20]

i like how james allsup didnt even post this debate on his youtube, because he got destroyed too hard lmao

[@lieutenantgraysquirrel2602]

monkaS Oosh. He actually posted in on his old National Review channel.

[@Antnj81]

monkaS I think it's cute that you think he got destroyed in this debate. You must be one of Destiny's 13 year old girl friends online

[@Ajaws]

“Destroyed”

[@Juryiat]

@@Antnj81 well in my opinion he definitively lost when the only real argument he could provide was an argument to morality instead of data you know that whole "feels" argument that is typically critisized so harshly in neatly every other circumstance

[@BillClay88]

I'd say he's well versed on this shit, clearly intelligent, articulate and I agree with destiny on these issues, but I can respect and understand where he's coming from. I'm just a realist on this matter. He's just being overly optimistic.. what's wrong with that?

[@ronanhouston1034]

“We’re not gonna feed your kids” WHAT!?! Let me starve boys!

[@ronanhouston1034]

Let em

[@AlternateKek]

Everything to Destiny is "everyone agrees with this when I propose it"

[@diamantedante]

Makes a claim which is not mainstream, tells guest to prove him wrong. Guest makes a claim that isn't all that questionable, demands paywalled research papers during discussion.

[@vaultrant2499]

@@diamantedante Examples? ;)

[@PCMESS]

Putting seat belts in cars "enables people to engage in risky behavior" this concept is nearly his entire argument and it's totally fallacious.

[@jacobperez7329]

I wanna see them debate the ethnostate.

[@cameranishere]

lol back when James was a free market guy, times have changed.

[@grantobrien3396]

wow, destroystiny got des'd in this debate...

[@Keranu]

30:49 Americans don't deserve other's personal morels asserted onto them, hmm that sounds relevent to the debate topic...

[@PforPanthera]

"Well they just shouldn't have sex" This argument drives me actually fucking insane. Maybe instead of making policies off your ideal world, we should base policies on how people behave in the real fucking world.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Interesting how the age people have sex on average is increasing and birth rates are decreasing across the globe, yet I'm sure "sexual degeneracy" is a problem and the solution, poor people are not allowed to have sex, forced sterilization if you do and starve the babies!! Oh and this especially aplies if your black.

[@nigahiga878]

he's annoying, sure, but he stays on topic, acknowledges your points without belittling them, and uses reasonable facts to support his opinions. can you argue more people who are sane, like this guy?

[@nigahiga878]

after watching the video more, I realize how..... "extreme" his opinions are. but at least he argues like a reasonable person

[@nigahiga878]

30:40 HOT DAMN

[@nigahiga878]

35:30 That's a really strong argument, nisu

[@Kyle_Schaff]

I thought Christians were supposed to care and help the poor, not advocate for their sterilization

[@tehDmez]

This whole debate was Destiny going full Godstiny mode, best debate I've seen so far.

[@kuroichan101]

3:40 that guy is wrong. The case taken by the supreme court about a drug use for religious reasons concluded that you CAN NOT do that just because it is in your religion. Our country does not allow people to do shit like that just because of their religion.

[@FondestAlloy56]

At lease he kinda just rolled with the loss of the argument kinda cool

[@CinemaKnight]

22:40 or so. Just because its out of wedlock does not mean that the parents aren't living together. Some won't be, but a lot are just two people that had a kid or two, didn't get married, and live together. This is also a thing.

[@RHatcherMD]

Every time I hear someone talk about how 'it's just so much better to have a child raised in a two parent household', I want to ask them how much parental abuse they think should be tolerated, in blind acceptance of that factoid, or who should be legally counted as a 'parent'.

[@stuartsmith4369]

Wait, how does voluntary steralization not subsidize sexual degeneracy, if birth control does?

[@SandyTheDesertFox]

He probably thinks that way he'll breed 'sexual degeneracy' out of existence

[@KarenTookTheKids364]

Quickest Destiny victory ever?

[@karlazeen]

Speed run world record?

[@BeastyBite]

the base probem here is that two males debate birth control...

[@MultiBenjinator]

Bruh, allsup is gone bro Feels bad man

[@Illumirage]

tolerant left...

[@Liam_The_Great]

really does

[@ROBMrs]

Anyone else have to check like 5 times to see if your speed wasn't on 1.5x?

[@FuddlyDud]

Props to Destiny and James having a great debate!! No ad hominens, no insults, and only the calm exchange of data and good points. If only both these people were like this today :/

[@sydneycbr6466]

7:30 the market for health insurance in the US isn't in anyway "free", there's not even a national level market as you have to buy within your state and in many cases limited to what's on the exchanges, right?

[@MrFlac00]

I know this video's a couple years old. But I have to get this off my chest: I think Destiny should have 100% pushed back harder on sterilization. Although I think that in this debate Destiny held his own pretty well (though he probably should have checked the statistics a bit better like he pointed out), I worry that last part was just allowing James to platform his radically incorrect eugenics policies. The real problem with "voluntary" sterilization is the same problem as with eugenics: it completely ignores the power dynamics that exist within society that hurt poor/marginalized folk. As well I feel that because James was not outwardly white nationalist that Destiny missed the subtle while nationalist points he was making. Destiny first sort-of addressed this by pointing out that offering a monetary incentive structure for the military results in the military predominantly consisting of poor recruits, while the education requirements for officer positions result in the upper management being staffed with more middle/wealthy class people. This is because of the way the incentives and requirements are structured in the military. When we talk about incentives structures we have to realize that different types of incentives have different effects on people. If we offered free sex for a year for sterilization we will get a radically different demographic than if we offered free snacks for sterilization. 1000$ is just enough to incentivize poor/marginalized folk to take the bait and get sterilized, without offering enough so that working class and above people would even consider it. I'm clearly insinuating this: James is promoting this view in bad faith as a way to sterilize poor and brown people to protect the white race. Its why he can believe that birth control = increased degeneracy, while sterilization (which is permanent birth control) = better society. If he wanted to reduce teen pregnancy, or help poor women not have kids when they can't support them; then James would be promoting birth control as well. He already think that brown/poor people are degenerate by nature, and that making them unable to reproduce is a boon to the "white race". An easy example is this: the entire argument he has about why we could use "voluntary sterilization" (they are financially effective, prevent teen pregnancy, etc.) could be easily be used for IUD's without any moral hazard. However James would never propose that because IUD's are by design temporary. Because even after 10 years of (multiple) IUD use, a poor/brown person would still be able to have kids when they decide when to have children by having it removed; which would undermine his goal of preventing brown people from having children. So heres how it all works out in his head: The sterilization program offers incentives to specifically target poor and brown individuals, thus reducing the rates at which brown people reproduce. As well, white people reproduce more to bolster their "stock". Then implicit in this is a "Step1, Step2?, Profit" argument in which James wants the re-establishment of "traditional christian values" in marriage without being willing to outwardly commit to its obvious memes (notice how he never had an answer to "what is your alternative to abstinence education w/out birth control"). This is why eugenics and "voluntary" sterilization are bad ideas: because they rarely are effective at directly addressing certain goals, and are only used as dogwhistles to promote white nationalism because of their implicit message of "well the good ones are white". These are arguments like "pure libertarianism": held by no one except edgy pre-teens, and only used as smokescreens for darker beliefs.

[@IMatchoNation]

TL;DR James Allsup is a racist and a eugenicist.

[@DaJukes]

This is the kind of person who talks a certain way and people like it.. it's almost genetic to talk and think this way

[@figgles]

that was quick

[@fullmetalsnowflake2508]

At 15 minutes now, the flustering is starting to really flow. I'm getting the vibe that this is really going to get good.

[@fullmetalsnowflake2508]

OH SHIT WE GOT "DEGENERACY" AT LESS THAN 20 MINUTES THAT WAS QUICK

[@fullmetalsnowflake2508]

"WHY CANT PEOPLE JUST ALL DO WHAT I WANT"

[@westingtyler1]

ah, you know this person's angle as soon as they start using religious words like "sexual degeneracy." I don't think there IS a non-snob way to say the word "degeneracy."

[@imsoemoyayaya]

I view it like this, in complete fairness, okay if you want free birth control, thats completely fine. Then also give away free condoms, and also give away FREE care for people who have diseases that werent their fault in obtaining, such as cancer, autoimmune diseases, ect. ect.

[@oxitocin7718]

how is this even a debate ? it's just facts vs pivots and bullshit

[@mclazerz8931]

Calling premarital or single activity as degenerate should have ended it

[@Ethanchamberlain3]

he talks exactly the same way as Lauren Southern

[@JoshBeach]

They're both white supremacist reactionaries so there you go

[@bosnia7429]

Josh Beach How? How are they white supremacists. That’s like calling Obama a black supremacist,

[@Illumirage]

@@JoshBeach hahahaha, anyone the left disagrees with lately are "white supreamcist reactionaries" lately. Grow up you fucking joke.

[@Illumirage]

@@JoshBeach I honestly get fed up with idiots like you calling anyone who disagrees with all of the anti-white racism spoon-fed to us on a daily basis as "white supremacists". It's out there...I will post evidence if you want it.....

[@ksilva2848]

This argument 21:12 came from a Loeren Southern video and there is a debunking of it from Shaun named What every girl needs to hear a response

[@poly.morphine]

IM GLAD UNK KEPT YOUR 50 CENTS JAMES

[@vontsss]

hello nephew

[@taefer7437]

"Every clinic has free condoms"

[@Crispman_777]

Deary me this went deep down the ol' eugenics rabbit hole. A favourite of all sketchy ideologies!

[@Impervious11]

They both talk so fast that at one point I had to double check I didn't accidentally put it on 1.25x speed. 25:15 - 25:30 is one example, though I know it's not the best one in the video.

[@carleya1263]

Can someone point me to a video of women arguing about viagra and how it affects men’s health? Thanks!

[@AdvancedSquadLeader]

Don't have sex? Is this guy serious? It's a biological imperative. "Sorry you are too poor, no sex for you"

[@meaganterry3485]

James got fuckin stomped on this one

[@st.friendship]

Nice debate. I thought this was going to be volatile. Pleasantly surprised.

[@magus12345678]

Did he really fucking say "former libertarian", like how is his anti-government stance at all consistent with that expression.

[@nathanbruce1992]

magus12345678: eh, I used to be an anarchist when I was an angsty teenager. I changed my views when realizing that even if I could be left alone alright, many other people would use force because of the lack of justice or retribution. Now I’m liberal on social issues and conservative on fiscal one.

[@6gabriel9]

perfect to listen to in the morning !!! >:)

[@Dylan-yh3yk]

Destiny vs Literal Insane Person

[@TonecrafteLuthiery]

You can subsidize birth control or you can subsidize kids people can't afford to have. One of them is much more expensive than the other. One of them prevents abortions, if you care about that sort of thing (I don't). One of them prevents kids from being born into underprivileged circumstances that hurt both their future's and the future's of their parents. Your call.

[@IMatchoNation]

But contraception doesn't take away brown people's ability to have children when they choose to. From Allsup's perspective, that's a problem.

[@vilecrocodile9171]

Happy Thoughts How about subsidise neither.

[@Klamev]

@@vilecrocodile9171 then you will be paying for more police, jail and a worse economy