Debating BadEmpanada (White Coloniser)

MOMENTS:
00:00 intro
00:46 debate starts
1:14:50 post-debate rant
Patreon: / lonerbox
Paypal: paypal.me/lonerbox
Twitter: / boxloner
Twitch: / lonerbox​
Discord: / discord
Reddit: / lonerbox
Join Loner in his Box: / @lonerboxlive

[@moshingsafely]

"I Believe A is true" "Do you have any evidence for A?" "I DON'T GIVE A SH*T ABOUT IF A IS TRUE"

[@TrophyGuide101]

How does someone trick themselves into being this dishonest/deluded? Do they know they are doing it? Do they have to do it to appease their viewers? When you're so deep in the rabbit hole you have to double down on denying reality.

[@AspiringDevil]

Come on man you can't expect him to hold his murder boner back just because his reasoning for blood shed is false lol

[@FilYRU999]

@@TrophyGuide101simple, have fans that call you based and strong headed. That’s the only way someone can be deluded that way.

[@reverseaimbot2509]

"hes a murderer hes a murderer" "can you back that up? make an argument as to why he is a murderer?" "I don't give a shit whether hes a murderer or not" im gonna lose it

[@snow24121]

This whole thing was basically a cycle of: “A is true” “Why is A true?” “IDGAF wether A is true or not!!!”

[@PsychedelicSocialist]

You left off the last part of his sentence where he said within the legal definition. He said morally yes he is a murderer and then explained with an argument.

[@antgrantrant]

For the record, you cut the rest of the sentence. He said "I don't give a shit if he's technically a murderer within the definition of the law" I get if you don't like the guy, but you shouldn't "lose it" based on a misremembered quote

[@n8orious699]

@@antgrantrant for the record, murder is defined legally. that's what the word means. I think you should know what words mean before saying dumb shit.

[@antgrantrant]

@@n8orious699 I'm not gonna get in a pointless argument because you're misdirecting the point. The question was if he would morally call Rittenhouse a murderer, regardless of what the court defines it as. The original commenter got upset because they didn't finish typing the question that was asked.

[@TheSquareheadgamer]

"you don't need to watch a video to comment on it" ...... Well that's a way to start

[@matheusvillela9150]

You don't need to watch someone's whole youtube channel to debate a few tweets and clips where people express their opinions directly

[@SA-mo3hq]

Why debate a position when you can just screech like a methed-out gibbon instead? Worked for Infrared. For a while at least.

[@TheSquareheadgamer]

@@matheusvillela9150 that's not at all what I said :L If your responding to a particular video you should watch that video.

[@chaosvii]

@@TheSquareheadgamer I think Matheus is attempting to demonstrate "You don't need to read someone's point in order to call it wrong"

[@matheusvillela9150]

@@chaosvii Do you need to read Mein Kampft to know nazism is wrong? Do you need to follow Bem Shapiro's whole career to criticize a dumb tweet he wrote?

[@Blakbox92]

"Her name's not even Eris" Okay Mr. "Bad Empanada"

[@IMatchoNation]

Please, call him Bad: Mr Empanada is his father's name.

[@Tutored_Sauvage]

yea people know bad empanadas real name and he shows his face so it's not the same. funny comment tho

[@z115zt7]

First name bad last name empanada 1 star Yelp review and there ain’t no salsa A cringy guy rolled in a tay-co White rice wit no beans, man’s so tasteless like Waco

[@oolacilesbotnet6564]

You are subbed to Dylan Burns

[@z115zt7]

@@oolacilesbotnet6564 boom, headshot

[@pedronabais1456]

wait a country with a majority culture is a ethnostate? holy hell how many non ethnostate countries do we have left?

[@occam7382]

Not a lot.

[@rincontibio7664]

Like 2 and they really are going down

[@pedronabais1456]

@@rincontibio7664 i can maybee think of russia and not really another major country with a "primary culture" arguably america, but ex-brits are still the vast majority

[@easytiger6570]

​@@pedronabais1456 Russia has a primary culture

[@easytiger6570]

​@@rincontibio7664 I can think of at least several, mostly in Africa but also India Papua New Guinea and Indonesia

[@Ccody47]

"it's not clip chimped" *Clip starts in the middle of a sentence.*

[@borelespork4510]

The context was still there. If someone says "I think" and then continues with a 40 second argument i think there is enough context to explain it away with the clipp chimp excuse.

[@AlexDoesYouTubes]

BE - Makes claim. LB - Can you back that up? BE - I don't care about that.

[@hatinmyselfiscool2879]

for example?

[@guyfauks2576]

@@hatinmyselfiscool2879 skimp killah: i don't care about that

[@puckerings]

@@hatinmyselfiscool2879 BE: "Why did you say X?" LB: "Because of the context Y that you're ignoring." BE: "I don't care about context." Over and over again.

[@Dorian-lq3up]

Yeah like the clips of Eristocracy that BE played. That loner box just completely denied even though she clearly states her opinions.

[@seanmac1793]

@@hatinmyselfiscool2879 3:25

[@AtlasCrafted]

Damn, imma just comment on those actually really solid spanish guitar skills in the opening. Can we get more of that?!?!

[@stalok5963]

True AND real 100%

[@sameash3153]

​​@@hadronoftheseus8829 I'm a classical guitarist and have played all the lute suites. I don't think that's Bach. It's not very idiomatic baroque and sounds much more like Tarrega. But I guess I could be mistaken. if I had to guess, it was just an improv.

[@sameash3153]

@@hadronoftheseus8829 You hear that 4-3 suspension around 0:10? The D against the A string on the downbeat? Sounds like Tarrega or another 19th century Spanish composer to me. The piece is in E Minor but doesn't resemble any of the movements from bwv 996

[@robinhancock1790]

@@sameash3153 the piece is Andreina by Antonio Lauro:)

[@sameash3153]

@@robinhancock1790 based!

[@LucGendrot]

Does this man have an opinion about...anything? I lost track of the number of times he juked the questions asked

[@TrophyGuide101]

Reality often gets in the way of ideologues so they have to not care about it.

[@brandogg974]

BE got absolutely rolled here. It was almost brutal

[@red-sv2qf]

How was he? The filthy zionist was pulling all sorts of logical fallacies on him, I was convinced with 0% of what he said before and after the debate.

[@chocolateneko9912]

@Cultured Russian Waifu u like bad Empanada? based af

[@pogo8050]

@@chocolateneko9912 I’m not surprised russbot alt right anime PFPs watch Badempanada. Flocks of a feather

[@chocolateneko9912]

Bad empanada doesn't support Russia lmao

[@chocolateneko9912]

@@pogo8050 alt right? how?

[@GeoNeilUK]

Have you noticed how many times BadEmpanada says something along the lines of "I don't care" or "It doesn't matter" whenever he's pressed on *ANYTHING* he says? It's as if everything he talks about doesn't matter to him. He just doesn't care.

[@slaterslater5944]

It's Surgin Off Akkid all over again..

[@Revan058]

'I don't fucking care' was one of the most commonly said phrases this entire 'debate', and all coming from a single person.

[@matheusvillela9150]

He shouldn't care because Dronerbox doesn't have anything of worth to say

[@GeoNeilUK]

@@matheusvillela9150 "He shouldn't care because Dronerbox doesn't have anything of worth to say" And what of worth do you have to say, anti Semite? Paedophile? Nazi? Racist? Coloniser?

[@PhoenixIgnisChannel]

BC He isn't fucking palestinian, his opinion on individual cases of evicción does not matter and he knows this, he's not even trying to deny this. The terms of decolonization should be up to the palestinian people to decide, and people like Dronerbox makes this impossible.

[@101spacemonkey]

It would be good (if possible) to add chapters of the debate like intro, final arguments etc.

[@jendelreavis358]

Implying this debate has anything resembling an intro or closing argument time

[@njm2699]

Bold of you to assume that there is coherence in a bad empanada debate.

[@clevernugget]

Average august editing viewer

[@mikerope5785]

Bad Empanada is the result of listening to someone's opinion and internalizing that opinion strongly without viewing the source material.

[@xBINARYGODx]

i think even that is giving him far too much credit

[@frenchguitarguy1091]

@@xBINARYGODx I'd say it's accurate in a way that is not flattering. He seems utterly incapable of holding and argueing any point he brings up, incapable of explaining them and seems to either not care about any of them or is more interested in trolling. he I truly one of the most embarrassing leftist I've seen, apart from one or two videos he is utterly unhinged, and uses his credentials as a South American to say "I'm South American I must know about all its history" meanwhile ice seen several others say he knows bat shit nothing.

[@abeerabdelghany1284]

Lol, this is a projection

[@figp123]

​@@abeerabdelghany1284 THIS IS PROJECTION *plugs ears* LALALALALA PROJECTION

[@bananap33l43]

I knew bad empanada was really fucking aggressive and crazy but the amount of misinterpretations and bad faith arguments was fucking unfathomable. His opening was very telling

[@ericktellez7632]

@@xp8969 he did got LB on Palestine though, you can not support a passive stance and simply support Palestine in a moral sense, you have to be more aggressive to actually change the material conditions of Palestinians, even if it results on violence, because Palestinians are already suffering from violence and oppression.

[@cynicalmemester1694]

@@ericktellez7632 LonerBox agreed on everything that BE had to say and even agreed on a bi-national solution where Israel doesn't exist, he just doesn't see it as actionable currently. He just disagrees with BE's solution of removing Israeli people from their homes to return it to the Palestinians as that would only incite further war and resentment. BadEmpanada came into this debate expecting LonerBox to be some petty zionist or a shitlib just wanting the war to stop and nothing else but LonerBox had no disagreements with most of what BE had to say about Israel and Palestine.

[@matheusvillela9150]

@@cynicalmemester1694 He is a shit lib and he tried to downplay or defend ethnonationalist speech

[@JoryKorvid]

@@cynicalmemester1694 2 state solution is bowing to colonizers, lmao

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

@@cynicalmemester1694 It was a weak argument, imo. I can get the logic behind Empanada's indignation, even though he can never actually come out and say it: he thinks that liberals use pragmatism as a cudgel to bludgeon leftist ideas out of the political scene, and if you agree with them on that, you may disagree morally but the end result is essentially the same, so what's the point? But while it's true that liberals do cynically employ the pragmatism argument to just shut down anything that might threaten their precious status quo, it doesn't mean we just get to disregard reality. And currently, the issue is that in order to do what Empanada wants and guarantee the right to return, you'd paradoxically need either the ability to ethnically cleanse Israel - and we know that there is no army that can or will do that, since the US and various European countries support Israel - or the consent or the Jewish colonizers themselves. Neither of those is going to happen, and if Empanada thinks that somehow there will be some kind of massive pink wave in the imperial core - which he's said multiple times is never going to happen - that will somehow make US and EU retract support from Israel, the 1950s are long gone. There isn't going to be any kind of arab alliance to kick the colonizers out and insisting on trying to relitigate the results of the 1950s wars is absolutely unproductive and useless. The real solution is not military, it's political, and will need to involve politically reinforcing an alliance between the Palestinian left and the Israeli left, and converting as many Israeli liberals as possible to put together a program that will include a one state solution - and that means defeating the objections of scared Israeli liberals like Eristocracy, who may feel sympathetic to Palestinians but are too scared and unwilling to consider the only real solution. And screaming that the only way the injustice of the colonization of Palestine will be redressed is by just throwing out all the colonizers is just... not going to help. It's not going to happen - it can only happen in certain circumstances, and they aren't present in modern day Israel.

[@ASolidSnack]

BE is basically the "'I like pancakes.' 'So you hate waffles?'" tweet taken to the extreme

[@oolacilesbotnet6564]

Nah, BE ate LB tbh

[@italucenaz]

@@oolacilesbotnet6564I missed you simping for Maupin in Vaush's video comments

[@dizehjvegnomis]

tbh? literally performing irony i see

[@longliverocknroll5]

Except he has receipts lmao. You being dumb doesn’t mean he’s acting in bad faith.

[@vishg5148]

@@oolacilesbotnet6564 stick to your comments where you run to be the first commenter, no one cares about your opinions

[@GreyKnight7777]

Destiny lost this debate.

[@rowbot5555]

Hi chat

[@danielshepard1449]

Destiny blamed the lefties for this debate loss

[@cpu_1292]

something something girls name

[@panwitt4980]

i used to like bad empanada. I cant believe I ever did. he's one of the most insufferable dips ive ever listened to

[@RiceShouldBeFluffy]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think the age makeup of his audience (and maybe audiences of those adjacent to his thinking) is? Is it really just dumb impressionable kids getting into "leftism" and do they grow out of it? Or is it a whole lot of a college students and adults?

[@saltoftheegg]

Gonna have to tap out at around 9 minutes, lobo. Your patience for unhinged ranting is astounding.

[@mattyb7183]

This wasn't a "debate". This felt more like trying to have a conversation with the angry drunk at the end of the bar. Though for BE to call it an "interview" is curious, interviews don't tend to take the formate of one person practically shouting at the other... I'm not sure which was more unbearable. It might have been when BE used the "it was a joke" when called out for something. Or it might have been when he tried to criticise LBx over stuff he said in his videos, despite never seeing a video. Or maybe it was the constant switching of topics whenever LBx tried to press BE on something. Or maybe it was the constant misrepresentation of the view of others. Or equally it could be the numerous times he pushes LBx to explain something and then never actually letting him finish making his points. BE comes across as a very aggressive asshole who argues in extremely bad faith. For giggles, go over the BE channel and see the comments there on his version of whatever this was. As I'm pretty sure they watched a totally different video...

[@ericktellez7632]

It’s literally the same sh*t for both of the parties, in here everyone will dunk on BE and over there they will dunk on LB.

[@mattyb7183]

@@ericktellez7632 yeah I agree that LB didn't exactly shower himself in praise either. I suspect that debates are not his natural habitat... I'm not even sure what this was even supposed to achieve. It didn't feel like much of a debate, it definitely was not a constructive conversation and it was not an "interview". I don't tend to watch many debates but I was curious as I am a LB fan and I've heard quite a bit about EB. But this was just disappointing.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Cus he is

[@ericktellez7632]

@@mattyb7183 honestly is just entertainment, I don’t think anyone should look to be informed when it comes to content like “debates” because this stuff isn’t a debate, there is no moderator nor even an agreement of a specific topic to debate to not to mention in a debate you mention your position before it even starts, it’s basically self contained drama and content for both creators

[@ratatatuff]

@@ericktellez7632 Of course. Because the Zionists only feel welcomed here.

[@SA-mo3hq]

Very stable genius and most sane tankie, Empanada. Terminal grass deficiency.

[@longliverocknroll5]

“Tankie” lmao. Why do you people use words you objectively don’t understand?

[@SA-mo3hq]

@@longliverocknroll5 Hey, if you've got a better term for "authoritarian reactionary who pretends to care about workers and isn't adverse to a wee cheeky genocide to prove they aren't a LiBeRaL", I'm all ears.

[@aymanhasan-2991]

How is BE a tankie now ? 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

[@jdb5961]

​@@SA-mo3hq What genocide are you referring to here then + authoritarian in what way? I doubt that you can justify either statement. And just as easily you could accuse libs like Loner of siding with the Western establishment on issues like Palestine

[@scruffopone3989]

@@SA-mo3hq Personally I don't like to use the word tankie about BE because I extremely doubt he knows anything about tanks. We need to go back to the glory days of tankies and commieboos who used to know things about Soviet Era tanks. No. For BE we can just call him an antisemitic authoritarian freak.

[@DhiscoStu]

The level of these non-sequiters: I can'f even keep up

[@ngotemna8875]

@@GeraintDafis There's an easy trick to remember that: Latin words don't end on "-er".

[@Ghee_Buttersnaps]

@@GeraintDafis "Hail Grammar!"

[@Revan058]

@@ngotemna8875...*really* That's unironically fascinating. I never realized it, but you're totally right.

[@DhiscoStu]

@@GeraintDafis can't also has a T

[@torrentialrage]

@@GeraintDafis how is that pronounced?

[@eelvis1674]

Badempanada is actually so unhinged. The most offensive thing you've done Lonerbox is having him on. This stream was basically an act of ablist exploitation

[@mendedarrows9394]

Seriously speechless. Radical reeducation? Maybe not camps, maybe prisons? The Jews can go back to the lands they were expelled from thousands of years ago? He sounds like a simpleton.. and a baby.

[@eelvis1674]

@@MindMistressCS you call yourself a communist and you don't recognise Chibi Guevara?

[@danielshepard1449]

Notice how everyone in LB's comment section is talking about personalities, insults and debate tactics, but not the actual substance of the debate, which LB was clearly wrong about.

[@eelvis1674]

@@danielshepard1449 do you not think that might be because we don't believe LB was wrong?

[@Anom990]

LonerBox keeps saying a nuclear armed state will not make concessions and will engage in war despite BadEmpanada repeatedly showing that it's happened before with the Soviet Union and apartheid South Africa.

[@ZedAmadeus]

Coming to this with no context is... PAIN lmao. My head hurts...

[@jidk6565]

LB "Have you seen this video" BE "No" LB "have you seen my video on this" BE "I've never see a video from you in my life" LB "have you seen this tweet" BE "I don't care what tweet" LB "it's ok to admit you don't remember" LB "have you seen my Tweet" BE "Don't care/No" On Repeat The entire "Debate" He's not debating LonerBox Or even an image/idea of him He's debating hid image of a Vaush/Destiny "lacky" Jesus fuck This is painful Good job keeping your shit together for more then 20 minutes I know I wouldn't, and couldn't

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

At this point might as well try to make him as mad and terrible looking as possible since trying to engage with Bed in good faith is a huge waste of time

[@jidk6565]

@@PancakemonsterFO4 dude thinks all decedent's of Europeans born outside of Europe deserve the wall And he's fucking AUSTRALIAN I'm betting good money he doesn't think he deserves the wall

[@BlueSkullFish]

Lmao when you’re in a discussion with someone, you can’t say “did you see something else I did, that explains my position.” You should be able to hold your own in a conversation without referring to pat tweets/videos. Explain why you think the things you think

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

That's how the humiliated run from positions they know they can't defend. He exposed his true nature

[@jidk6565]

@@BlueSkullFish yes Like how Lonwrbox brought up Statitics and studies to back up what he believed And when he criticized BE He usually had something like BE accusing people of being Antiqueer (because kink at pride, a place that in the modern day should be safe for children first, and a place for degens like us last) A Necrophile (because he thought it was funny), an Imperialist (because someone dared to think you don't deserve the wall for being born somewhere) Which Bad backed off on Everything One had there own quotes to defend themselves, and the context to explain themselves The other, when context and reasons where asked for them or given to them, responded with "I don't care" or "No" One had stats, studies, and a deeper understanding of literature that they studied The other just parrots dead people without understanding them And also, if you are saying someone did something awful, it actually does matter if context changes things or it turns out you're just fucking lying (because Bad was kinda lying about a lot of shit)

[@Shin-wk7yu]

my dude lonerbox thank you for doing this♥

[@ngotemna8875]

Yoooo GuitarBox at the beginning was super dope

[@RebekahSolWest]

Damn that was nice intro timing

[@petrfedor1851]

"I am not concern about my reputation" What a brave statement. Like if most people are worried about things they don´t have.

[@a3lfeoxld]

He makes a claim, you argue against his claim and make your points, he then gets huffy and says, "Well, I don't care about that anyway." - it is beyond painful.

[@onepangaean3018]

What's beyond painful is when someone denys the reality of an exact quote being played and says "clip chomping!!!1!"

[@a3lfeoxld]

@@onepangaean3018 yeah sure, cos clipping and context means it can't change the meaning, right?

[@onepangaean3018]

@@a3lfeoxld you are denying reality. The quote was right there. If a white person in America said the same thing they would rightly be labelled a white supremacist.

[@a3lfeoxld]

@@onepangaean3018 no I am not you plum

[@a3lfeoxld]

@@onepangaean3018 and again, fucking context and clipping...ffs it ain't hard to understand those concepts. As in, I will not take it as face value from lunatic tankies, I want to hear the whole thing and make my own mind up

[@dizehjvegnomis]

"wait, law? what are you, a fucking liberal?!" is not a vaush moment i ever knew i needed to re-hear as a sub notification 🤣

[@Scarbonac]

Why do prople even *talk* to BadEmpanada?

[@RiceShouldBeFluffy]

Because he's a good spring board to for sensible activists to advocate via accountability.

[@nomansland5113]

Quick note, that was some beautiful guitar playing

[@SkunkWerks7]

Are there any Olympic events involving the movement of Goalposts? I feel like Badenchilada won several of them in the first five minutes. Also I WISH his mic had a mute threshold. Is his entire "debate strategy" to throw EVERYTHING at the wall (just scooping up random bits of detritus and hurling them forth indiscriminately- like some sort of debate tornado) to see what sticks?

[@BONK_2000]

It's genuinely impressive how he can fold on every single claim and still keep arguing.

[@Pos3id0n.]

Came here to say that the guitar intro was sexy as fuck

[@Chatrbuug]

The cockroach, the meme: badempanada. He must be a beef empanada because he's a lolcow

[@papa_bless5920]

Pog guitar, that last note hit like JoJo’s “to be continued”

[@spudman1734]

It's from the song Roundabout by the band, Yes

[@papa_bless5920]

@@spudman1734 thank you

[@bobmanperson599]

BadEmpanada doesn't seem to know there's a difference between Colonialist and Colonist

[@Hchris101]

are you a toad from mario kart?

[@user-zt7ex6ce8g]

BadEmpanada is an Australian living in Argentina.

[@danielshepard1449]

"He doesn't know the NUANCE of Colonialist and Colonist bro!" woah sick burn how will he ever recover

[@hansfrankfurter2903]

The most genius comment with the most invaluable insight I've ever heard all week.

[@jidk6565]

Holy fuck it actually happened

[@tunahan4418]

I don't really understand your takes on Palestine and Israel. Are you against the right of return and do you support 1 state or 2 state solution? Like I think a 1 state peaceful solution would be ideal but not really possible, especially not without many more tragedies.

[@igbl108]

“Apparently settler colonialism just arbatrarily stops after a certain length of time.” Okay Empanada man, that means that the land belongs to the Jews? It was Jewish land before the Arab Conquests? Is that too long ago? This guy is just full of falacies. He just doesn’t get the point that two groups need to get along. You can’t just get rid of one because “bad”.

[@jamesjohnson2394]

The Palestinians are most likely the descendents of those Jews. Jews lived peacefully for millenia in Palestine without zionists

[@MrDoomedtofail]

Why is your audience critiquing BE'S 'debate tactics' instead of engaging with the arguments? Where could they have learnt that?

[@Bofadeeznutz69]

Lmao true

[@magicalchicken6249]

hE wAs rEaLlY rUdE aNd gOt hEaTeD oVeR tHe iSsuE oF pAleStIne. Where is the civility? He kept saying he didn’t care (about a white supremacists PTSD from murdering anti racist protestors, or the most fucking dumb hypothetical imaginable). /s Jesus the only people here actually discussion his arguments and positions here are liberals who clearly understand even less about colonialism then even lonerbox and actual fascists unironically posting the stonetoss meme against decolonisation. Great audience you have here

[@Markunator]

What are you implying?

[@adrien5834]

What arguments? I'm 30 minutes in, and I haven't heard anything resembling an argument from Bad Empenada, just nonstop sophistry. I'm considering giving up on this shitshow...

[@joshuajames6481]

What arguments?

[@Iruth27]

I find like BadEmpanada is the online Jekyl (his history video essays) and Hyde (his twitch persona).

[@bbenny9033]

fr wtf is going on

[@saint_silver]

​@@hadronoftheseus8829 they are well sourced and argued. You can't throw them away on suspicions and vibes

[@saint_silver]

@@hadronoftheseus8829 what essay can you direct me to that illustrate better your point ? the one that shows his deficiencies I'm of course not sharing with some unknown online details of my life, I hope you'll respect that.

[@Onezy05]

You're goddamn right. Some of his YT stuff is actually pretty great and well put together. But beyond the videos? In the comment section and on twitter? It's like he has a teenage son who hops on his computer to troll everyone when his backs turned.

[@841Takis]

@@Onezy05 I mean I guess that’s his way of getting stress out of his day to day life.

[@nixon4731]

Someone needs to run an Empanada vs Runday debate

[@noneckmongoose5549]

I liked the little Nylon guitar intro, we dont agreee on everything or even most things but i like getting your perspective and think you should incorporate a bitbmore music stuff into your content

[@bitterbrush2377]

Bad Empanada sure has strong opinions on things he starts and yet claims aren't relevant ...

[@PaulWillisJr]

@1:00:00 "I'm phrasing this in the CORRECT terms" he says to the guy he accused of limited the acceptable range of language. Got it got it

[@mi38927]

This grown man argues like a child, he through a random accusation, it gets debunked right away and then he has to figure out a way to back out of it once he’s proven wrong and then finds some other random out of context accusation to through at his opponent. reminds me of how I use to argue with my sibling when we were kids

[@redactedvt7873]

Golden intro, just gotta say.

[@moodycxnt]

Less than five minutes in and this really exemplifies online "debate" culture

[@moodycxnt]

@@hadronoftheseus8829 really?

[@PsionicNoMad]

@@hadronoftheseus8829 Just the whole... I'm right and there's no way I'm wrong, attitude.. but I'm just speaking for myself here.

[@PsionicNoMad]

@@hadronoftheseus8829 I'm not trying to spend hours writing you a thesis on exactly where BE and LE's logic falls apart, I'm just trying to add a bit more clarification. Looks like I don't have what you need though. Have a good one comrade.

[@ngotemna8875]

@@hadronoftheseus8829 Weird how everyone but you understood the two people you've talked to

[@ScarceCastle2]

@@hadronoftheseus8829 y'know what, I'll bite: the way I see the comment is more about how BadEmpenada is acting like the stereotype of a debatebro. Overconfident, knows jack all, backs off any assertions or lines of questioning because "I don't give a shit" while simultaneously accuses his opponent of doing the same thing, responds to questions by literally reframing the question in a way where he can answer it to his benefit - being a dick. In that way, to me Bad Enchilada really exemplifies this online "debate" culture because he can't go more than 20 seconds before I want to yell "SHUT UP" at my phone. But I mean if this was more about like all online debate? Ehhhh c'mon op, alright don't let BadChinchilla shape your opinions

[@MyNameIsNotDamien]

I don't really understand how "puppy play" is worse than bdsm in public.

[@mtlewis973]

i think the point was more that LB had an issue with one specific example and BE said that was queerphobic which just obviously nonsense

[@hasbug223]

I'm sorry but BE is right to be against Eristocracy the way he is, I watched the whole Eristocarcy video and almost none of the clips he used were cut out of context. He's the link to where the clips come from: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zom4nqKca5V9d9k And just to be clear 3/4 of the way through the video Eristocarcy does start to describe the Israeli-settler view point, but after saying most of the damning things.

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

And she sure af doesn't say she disagrees with the settler view.... but don't worry not a single person who hates BE will click the link to find out.

[@WELSHGAMER99]

What did she say that was wrong?

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@@WELSHGAMER99 did you watch the video? Literally listen to the clip BE played, LB wouldn't even defend it and his only defense is that she actually believes the opposite.

[@WELSHGAMER99]

@@chenzomutumbo9140 What is the issue with her statement

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@@WELSHGAMER99 well let's start with the fact that she argues agai st the right of return out right because Isreal would lose its ethnic majority, but she also does so while using the same "no room" talking points th3 n@zis used to defend their settler colonial project of eastern Europe. But let's be honest you dont see a problem with it because you support isreal's ethnostate

[@The_Ex_Boxing_Nerd]

Why can’t you just fix the audio and reupload your Bolivia video if poor audio was the only reason you took it down?

[@ardethjven813]

Good job, Loner

[@n8orious699]

I hate that I watched this again.... I'm gonna go drown myself in minecraft

[@OhChrumbs]

Wow, BE came right out of the gate acting like a lunatic, and running away from every single bullshit, unsubstantiated point he tried to make. That really set the tone for this exploration of his insane ramblings and the loose connection he has to reality.

[@OhChrumbs]

@@MindMistressCS yeah I agree, BE really should've toned down the salt. Aggressive and wrong aren't a great mix.

[@menesebastiao2468]

You are a C word

[@danielshepard1449]

LB had to walk back everything he said. He went from "Eris is a great advocate to Palestine" to "Ok she doesn't actually think that" to "Ok lets just talk about what I believe" he went from "No nuclear armed state has ever just dissolved conceded granting basic human rights to its population from international pressure" to "Ok maybe that has happened twice in recent history but South Africa still kept the same name!"

[@willguggn2]

Your listening comprehension is probably worse than BE's.

[@hansfrankfurter2903]

Literally all the comments here are "BE is just mean and angry".

[@srfrancium9728]

I like how 'white colonizer' is used to refer to Georsh when he himself doesn't deny being a colonizer

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

@ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ I mean if BE can refer to all individual israelis (which includes palestinians who have immigrated there btw) as colonizers even though they don't answer to a foreign government and were born there (unless they're in the west Bank, in which case they answer to israel and are colonizers) i don't see what's wrong with applying the same standards to him, an individual white guy in a nonwhite nation-state. You either agree with both, or you don't believe the argument. You cannot have it both ways

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@@herec0mestheCh33f he literally calls himself a settler, that's not the hypocrisy burn you think.

[@srfrancium9728]

@ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ Yeah,Australia had a forceful and systemic accumulation of land that was taken away from aboriginals?????? Just because he didn't physically colonize all of Australia himself doesn't mean that he isn't a settler? He's literally the only white person on breadtube that acknowledges that he's a settler and distances himself from his ancestors and argues for land back? Like as Mexican diaspora who has one "half" of ancestry that was culturally genocided and the other "half" being the colonizers, it's uhhhhh not that fucking hard to look at your great+ grandpa and go "why the fuck would I want to have stolen shit and have my existence used to justify colonialization and genocide at the expense of others". And that's ignoring the selfish reasons of already having generational wealth to be able to not have to use said stolen land to survive, which is a big factor in why Georsh can afford to go away from stolen land, which he did do. Like how is him being an Australian settler that argues for land back and doesn't live on stolen land anymore a point? How does it discredit him? And him being a settler that doesn't live on stolen land and still argues for land back still paints him in a better light than a Anime vtuber settler who also doesn't live where they were born yet argues tooth and nail to keep Palestinians out. Badempanada is the only one here that has engaged with any real life actual Palestinian, mainly literally after the debate, on the issue instead of mythologizing them as a threat. All I got from this is Georsh is the only valid white person in 'breadtube' that actually stands for what he says instead of paying lipservice and ultimately handwaving solutions as impossible to shut people who are suffering up, and that (hell saying this as an American) english speaking breadtube is fucking cringe and I need to actually read the Manufacturing Consent book that I got

[@srfrancium9728]

@ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ "How can you people call yourselves any shade of socialist if you can't understand that global exchange and migration is good. Marx himself agrees it's an important part of global and communal growth. That's not the same as violent extraction of land, resources and explotation of the indigenous communities" My father immigrating from Mexico into the US is not the same as a group of people coming onto a piece of land for the specific purpose of replacing or diluting the people that lived there, my dad literally just came onto America and didn't take a group of people and put them in boarding schools, force them to change religion, tried to "tame" them by raping them and placing the mixed babies over the original group. My dad didn't fucking do that, but my Spaniard ancestors did, it's not that hard to recognize that they did that. I don't know to what extent I benefited from that besides not being placed in poorer areas that natives are pushed aside to in all these situations especially since both my parents grew up in poverty, but the thought of my own existence being used as justification for literal genocide makes me sick. I never called my self socialist because I live in America where a bunch of empty headed liberals use that term to pat themselves on the back for having the high status of not being racist/ queerphobic. You people have the gall to place yourselves as morally superior for no reason while looking at people who where colonized right in the eye and telling them you care more about the comfort of colonizers/settlers in the short term more than their sovereignty in the long term.

[@knavishimp6630]

@@herec0mestheCh33f Small correction: Argentina is non a nonwhite nation, in fact I believe they're majority white.

[@caseymckenna7111]

Yeah, this was about what I was expecting. I truly wish I had your capacity for balance and composure cuz I felt like my eyes were bleeding by 10 minutes in.

[@bgoodnow]

There were moments where his eyes rolled to the back of his head! You could just see the cringe floating through the airwaves. LonerBox managed this better than I could for sure! I loved the Vaush sound bite going off every 5 seconds throughout!!🤣

[@jubbo1924]

@@bgoodnow you support lebensraum too? That’s fantastic!

[@caseymckenna7111]

@@bgoodnow it was a wise move playin that guitar before it happened to center himself, very warrior poet 🤣

[@onepangaean3018]

BE has an great tolerance for bs. Don't know how he kept going with LB denying reality when the Eris quotes got played.

[@caseymckenna7111]

@@onepangaean3018 I get the feeling you don’t fuck a lot.

[@karsakasdasfa6474]

Wait so you think kyle rittenhouse isn't morally a murderer? That is fucked up.

[@marciamakesmusic]

He's not. It was clear self defense. That doesn't make him a good person, just wasn't murder. What does "morally a murderer" even fucking mean? You either murder someone or you don't.

[@JoryKorvid]

@@marciamakesmusic stop dog whistling please?

[@karsakasdasfa6474]

@@marciamakesmusic morally he went to a antiracist protest with a gun, he made the first act of aggression and with quite easily forseeable consequences.

[@marciamakesmusic]

@@karsakasdasfa6474 it wasn't an anti racist protest though, that's literal misinfo. y'all unironically think he went to a blm rally and killed people with signs. Here's my take, so you can avoid strawmanning me. He went there to defend property. Dumb idea, he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Doesn't mean he was a murderer. You can thing someone was morally in the wrong and also not make shit up about the situation.

[@karsakasdasfa6474]

@@marciamakesmusic I think that he provoked self defense situation and that even though it is in the law framework of US self defense I think he is responsible for those murders.

[@___.51]

Ahh the stinky little grin at 34:37 did me in im done

[@BirdBrain1337]

I wonder if SadHandpie thinks every U.S. citizen of European descent is a colonizer. And/or who deserves the wall. Strong bet.

[@unclebobboomergames]

27:43 "Im saying the way you talk about right of return isnt good and baby brained and is so broad sweeping itd end up going against at times your own goals" . . . "So you dont support right of return" Legit all seriousness i had in BE...gone. He was unimpressive before but that was the most empty headed response ever. Legit was just waiting to respond to LB. Not even argue.

[@hatinmyselfiscool2879]

saying "i like right of return" and then doing a "but" moment and trying to get irrational reasons too why we shouldn't do it is anti right of return. it's like the advocating for biden bs. "yes he id a neoliberal and he sucks... but he id the lesser evil." it's complete idiocy at best and an attempt too try and shut down leftist ideas from the inside at worst. when do people finally learn that saying i like this movement has no weight when actions proof otherwise.

[@unclebobboomergames]

@@hatinmyselfiscool2879 BE is just not a person worth taking seriously. No one is being anti right of return. The problem is is BE has this idea of what it is that would also swing the way he doesnt want in given situations. And also Biden? We have womens rights being taken away in our country. Theres a difference. Trump did sht like abandon the kurds. A people whos struggle is synomymous with leftism i grew with in the late 00s. So not only locally but abroad its also worse having trump instead of biden.

[@Precipiceofwind]

He literally said he was though? Lmao

[@unclebobboomergames]

@@Precipiceofwind it was i believe said in real time. Yes that would be apparant after

[@hatinmyselfiscool2879]

@@unclebobboomergames "it's worse having trump then biden? You mean all thw shit happening right now is fine? Jesus. Anyways, everything you said didn't adress the main issue, lb and people who think like him, that probably includes you, don't understand that if you don't actively push for an udea you are not for it, you may even be against it because there has to be a reason you don't want to actually push it forward and specifically talking about political stuff, you not doing anything is a concious decision because you get confronted with it often. In other words, no amount of "i am for the idea" will push it forward and when you not only don't Support the current pushing for that idea but actively support people with the opposite opinion in situations where they are confronted with their ideology, you proof that you are either incompetent or just aren't actually in support of the idea.

[@EastWindCommunity1973]

If you think Bad Emp doesn't care, what kind of musician just throws his guitar against his keyboard?!

[@blackedmirror5073]

We need more nylon guitar!!

[@user-cn8vj5rs5c]

Oh, my. Unhinged beyond belief

[@mrodo5175]

LonerBox, don't you think that Eristocracy sounds at the very least a little biased towards Israel. Like theres fair criticisms of her right?

[@pogo8050]

There are fair criticism of everyone, but most of her critics are nuts. I’ve watched all her videos on Israel and she display a level of even handedness that is highly uncommon on this topic. She has never downplayed the plight of Palestinians or played defense of Israel’s militaristic behavior.

[@mrodo5175]

@@pogo8050 you think theres is no fair criticism of eris

[@_M4X15]

@@mrodo5175 Bro can you read?

[@eoin4172]

​@@mrodo5175 what no reading-comprehension skills does to an mf

[@mrodo5175]

@@eoin4172 you have no idea what PogO's original comment stated

[@ivanlaplante]

"I just wonder if we can barely get international pressure for a 2 state solution how are we gonna get it for a one state with no Israel?" "hAvE u hEaRd oF sOmeThInG lIkE huuuuuuuuum... uS dOiNg tHiNgS?!?!" Wow this clown just solved the Israelo-Palestinian conflict!

[@ivanlaplante]

52:09

[@ivanlaplante]

BadEmpanada for Nobel Peace Prize!

[@sajeucettefoistunevaspasme]

@@ivanlaplantefunny thing : LB is making fun of BE for his argument while advocating for it now

[@rleeg6744]

South Africa is such a bad example. Who would choose to live like the Boer do today?

[@Parmetheus]

Always funny when an angry person responds with "idc" or an unbothered affect. Like dude, who do you think you're fooling? lol

[@aaronmallamad5797]

im having an aneurysm watching this please send help

[@leahstone9308]

BE reads his comments and never ever says shit about the *outright* and _unambiguously_ loathsome antisemitism that some of his fans spew under just about all of his videos. He’s quick to pipe up and dunk on anyone with a positive word to say about oh-so-nefarious breadtube, of course, because that’s far more unconscionable. He’s a very smart guy. Too bad his moral compass is so obviously broken.

[@bacicinvatteneaca]

Such as?

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

@@bacicinvatteneaca this isn’t him but I think I’ve seen people confusing the government of Israel with its people, not to mention I think he mentioned he wanted to send Eris to a camp I think? Also at around 5:00 or 5:32 he says LGBT parades are sexual, or something along those lines.

[@illogicalslayer9856]

@@BlueTyphoon2017 Look the first guy thinks that from the river to the sea is anti semetic which is bullshit. It is the opponents hearing Israel/Israeli and interpreting it as Jewish state/Jew who are the real anti semites.

[@Dorian-lq3up]

They are a celebration of free sexuality not just simply being queer, in certain places. What's wrong with that?

[@bigmojito1765]

@@Dorian-lq3upcelebrating sexuality and being overly sexual are two different things

[@basedggallin4556]

I forgot bad faith empanada existed lol

[@igbl108]

Does BE actually think Israelis live in houses built before 48? Most of the land was sparse villages with a few families. Literally nobody lives in a house built before 48. Also all the houses in the old cities are built by Jews prior to the Arab conquests? The only Arab built city is Yafo wtf

[@marcuscosgrove9431]

Bad Empanada reminds me of the kind of debate style that I encountered when I was heavily involved in student politics. He's so angry all the time that he ends up making a total tit of himself.

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

Yes because the guy defending Kyle Rittenhouse and saying Palestinian right of return is "unactionable" is clearly the high minded adult in the room. "Whah BE is not nice enough to people casually advocating for the status quo"

[@marcuscosgrove9431]

@@chenzomutumbo9140 did we even hear the same car crash discussion? Also... Not really into the status quo, just not really into the kind of arguments that want 'more PTSD' and seem to involve massive double standards and angry rants.

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@@marcuscosgrove9431 are you really pretending that LB didn't argue against the right of return and called it inactionable, then proceeded to make a silly strawman point about 2 million new york jews coming literally tomorrow not having room as if every Palestinian would come literally tomorrow and it wouldn't have a process. LB's point of south africa was mind numbing stupid and the only thing he was correct about (the nukes being givin up in 1989) made BE's point. And LB's solution at the end to help Palestinians is "vote harder"

[@robm6645]

You understand he is angry, thats very astute. Now can you actually understand what he is angry about? I don't think you can.

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

@@chenzomutumbo9140 Kyle rittenhouse did defend himself tho

[@larllarfleton]

Bad Empanada is one of the few historically literate people on here, dude has legitimately great advice for researching historical sources. Go check out his video essays. he's very abrasive and confrontational but he has a lot of valuable stuff to say when it comes to historical topics, especially regarding Latin America.

[@lukesenesac]

I'd rather listen to actual historians instead of sad contrarian internet trolls....

[@jermanizer]

@@lukesenesac he has degrees in history.

[@mileskennedy7770]

@@lukesenesac if you watch his videos you can see how many sources he uses and how he engages with them all critically. As a history student at university myself, his content is PhD level research, analysis and evaluation, seriously there is a lot you can learn from him even if his internet persona is alienating for anyone who takes streamer drama remotely seriously (he doesn't).

[@WELSHGAMER99]

Nah I'm alright

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@@hadronoftheseus8829 a masters is not an undergraduate bud...

[@pitpride1220]

Nice fingerstyle my man

[@saragos1216]

It's astonishing anyone takes this man seriously. Quite literally everything he said in this debate was either wrong or a non sequitur.

[@randomhuman2595]

He made a good video on Uyghur Muslims.

[@saragos1216]

@@randomhuman2595 yea I have no idea how a man so deranged can make a video that well measured. I guess he took his meds that day.

[@NovaDragon97]

@@randomhuman2595 Did he deny the genocide?

[@randomhuman2595]

@@NovaDragon97 He said Uyghurs were being persecuted and unfairly detained and gives evidence for this although says he thinks it is more of a cultural genocide then a traditional one.

[@MrOzzification]

@@randomhuman2595 I've come to see he's the peak example of a leftist who makes good videos (great stuff on the history of neoliberalism, the origins of the concept of race and how USA was doing Nazism before the Nazis) and is actually capable of presenting good arguments but astonishingly terrible with how he engages people. I had a growing feeling BE was fixating too hard on petty internet drama and this exchange with LB (both of whom I follow) wasn't a good look.

[@ashketchum1793]

south africa did abolish itself technically actually. it even changed in borders by incorporating the bantustans into south africa proper instead of a "two state solution" of keeping a bunch of exiled black people in their own little colonies. I feel it would help to be informed about the examples people bring before discussing it.

[@bdenbhurrito]

Changing borders doesn’t mean a state is abolished…

[@MrSomethingred]

Old Mate isnt aboriginal? Why TF hasnt he faced the wall himself for his settler status in Aus?

[@anonymous6990]

How does... someone aquire...a speech pattern such as this.... I've traveled...all over...the north am....erican continent and never heard such a thing.... before.

[@excalibur2772]

he's Australian? i think

[@kylemeyer2139]

He's not from North America nor lives in North America

[@arekhautaluoma4276]

I'm glad I'm off Twitter these days. I loved quite a few of BE's long-form videos, especially on Columbus and The Grayzone. That's why I was really beguiled when he mocked people for a meme on Twitter that made fun of folks for enjoying their 'alternative news sources' that consisted of RT, Grayzone, Redfish etc. Based on that, I asked him about his perspective on Syria, and all he did was mock me. It was very silly. 'noNe of this mAtTeRs' -BadEmpanada

[@PsionicNoMad]

The way I feel.. If you're approaching anything from BE without the understanding that he's a troll for the cause of socialism by day, and semi-well mannered (yes, I understand those last two words are doing some heavy lifting) advocate for socialism by night. Well you might want to reconsider your approach to BE.. is just how I feel.

[@arekhautaluoma4276]

@@PsionicNoMad not really sure how 'being a troll for Socialism' works

[@PsionicNoMad]

@@arekhautaluoma4276 I mean.. it him being a troll, to spread socialism.. Don't ask me how it works I just calls it as I see it.

[@ngotemna8875]

@@PsionicNoMad So he actively hurts the movement by being the caricature rightwingers think we are?

[@frenchguitarguy1091]

@@PsionicNoMad if anything that would make him a right wing troll- use mediocre video essays to create some following (don't forget to be a clout shark) then turn onto Twitter where say the most insane takes and then have literally no ability to defend them, tbh I'm surprised he doesn't do the 'second thought tactic of debate evasion'- just say debate is a bad thing. Anyway his channel has massively dipped since this which is a great, I've had enough of narcotic people like him who say a thousand words but might as well have just told us he drinks his own pee.

[@warmetalpacifist]

LonerBox, is there somewhere I can listen to your music? You play guitar beautifully

[@warmetalpacifist]

Also badempenada is unhinged

[@refitdan]

LonerBox has his music on his Patreon.

[@illogicalslayer9856]

@@warmetalpacifist John Brown was called unhinged because he wanted to abolish slavery. You may want to look at yourself and say I would have supported slavery when it was legal.

[@Markunator]

@@illogicalslayer9856 Sure, sweetheart, whatever you need to tell yourself.

[@warmetalpacifist]

@@illogicalslayer9856 ok americanoid, I don't care

[@arnigeir1597]

Somehow this has become more topical...

[@mrmadmight266]

You don't need to call him names on the tittle, Just saying.

[@usernamelastname7741]

poopoo doodoo weewee caca ahhhh face

[@nerdwisdomyo9563]

Holly shit loner box and badempanada had a debate? This is gonna be something 😐 Edit: im around 20 minutes in, ive watched a lot of badempanadas videos and really like them, but holly crap I didn’t know bad empanada was such an asshole, he really is dodging these questions because he’d have to admit defeat, it really is like the meme from the noah samson video (Badempanadas videos: this? i love this, this is great Badempanada everywhere else online: this? I hate this) Now i get it a little, but loner box not denouncing the stance that there isn’t enough room in israel gives me iffy vibes, the idea there just isn’t enough room is kinda gross and can be seen a nazi way so that should be pointed out… this debate is crazy Edit: “i think they need intense reeducation” (Israelis) “You think they need intense reeducation?” “Yes i think they need intense reeducation” “In a camp?” … “Yes, sure, camp prison whatever you want to call it” Bruh empanada you aren’t looking good! I kind of agree that there has to be action to re-educate people but not like that man The thing is that empanada is being cornered by these questions and double downs, i feel like his ideas aren’t even wrong hes just to absolutist and wont accept when its more complicated and two things are true at once Like how yes everyone living in israel contributes to settler colonialism, but leaving it at that and thinking they “deserve it” because there colonizers isn’t nuance enough and ignores the more pragmatic issues with de-colonization

[@DavySolaris]

B.E is notoriously a seriously mentally unwell alcoholic who routinely death threatens people and engages in absolutely insane behaviour - I'd reconsider having anything to do with him.

[@TrophyGuide101]

My guy reeducation is the most authoritarian thing you can do and it will turn you into the very thing you hate. It's based on the idea that your position is infallible and anyone who disagrees is just ignorant and must be forced to see the light. The fact is people can know the exact information you know but have a different conclusion, reeducation just forces them to lie to stop any punishment meant for those who are uneducated. BE went mask off here and it's good, I like to know the true beliefs of people especially those that are tyrannical in nature.

[@nerdwisdomyo9563]

@@TrophyGuide101 i agree. Tho, i will say education is the most fundamentally important aspect of a democracy, because an educated population is necessary to make good decisions as a collective without being misled. But REEDUCATION is a WHOLE other story, because well, if you set out with the goal to reeducate an entire population because you think there brain washed the logical conclusion is that it is done forcefully which is authoritarian and morally wrong. But one thing, in Israel Palestine i DO THINK there needs to be some reevaluation of history and beliefs on both sides, not forceful reevaluation, but definitely some reevaluation

[@wwanca3771]

jewish people are not settler colonialists

[@nerdwisdomyo9563]

@@wwanca3771 i agree. That comments a little old and i disagree with it a bit, like empanada is most certainly a full on tankie calling for like the mass deportation or forced reeducation of all Israelis, and also calling that all Israelis aren’t civilians, so hes not just somewhat right but to absolutist, he is just wrong Also “jewish people are not settler colonialists” i was talking about israelis, including non jewish Israelis, and the idea they “contribute to settler colonialism” is that if your living in Israel you’re contributing to there economy or image or in some way helping the state grow, but the problem with that view is that at an individual level like paying taxes provides such an inconceivably small benefit to that state it doesn’t really matter, and its nowhere near enough of a justification for forced reeducation or not being considered a civilian or all these other views empanada has. This is what i originally meant by like two things can be true, Israelis can in some unbelievably small way contribute to settler colonialism, and still be civilians, and like, what about babies? Empanada refuses to concede that babies exist and stuff, so screw him

[@nachoolo]

The Germans settlers one got me a tad by surprise because the vast majority of Germans expulsed from Poland (and other countries) were there for as long as centuries. These weren't Nazi settlers but natural citizens of the place because there wasn't a thing as an "ethnic state" in Europe prior to WW2. They were expelled to form an ethnic state, not because they stole the land. The same happened with Polish Ukrainians and Ukrainian Polish, for example.

[@hatinmyselfiscool2879]

That is just total bs. "No ethnic state before ww2" is just absolute bs there are literal quotes of bismarck talking about exterminating and getting rid of poles systematically in the eastern territories. Apart from that, systematic oppression of polish people and just eastern people in general by german nobility through laws is a pattern that is very spread out in these places, in the baltic in particular. Sure, these ones we can debate about if they are systematic oppressions, but too say bs like there were no ethno states prior too ww2 is just ridiciouls

[@hatinmyselfiscool2879]

They were kicked out because the region was being oppressed and heavily settled ever since the 1700's, the germans and austrians systematically oppressed minority groups and tried to get germans to settle this regions. In high nobility a sense of german superiority and the need to civilize eastern people literally was one of the causes why the livonian order, teutonic nights and the prussians exist. These settlers were systematically brought there and encouraged too go there. The explusion of the ukrainians and poles from each others regions is completely different on the other hand, it was a conflict between these two groups ever since the polish republic and the ukrainian seperatists existed. It was not going to be solved by any other measure then too resettle parts of populations. Too compare these two situations is just ignorant.

[@876xboss_albanerx64]

@@hatinmyselfiscool2879 mcdonald's history degree 😂

[@succatash]

Watching this after Oct 7th is funny.

[@adamz9835]

Smooth open

[@esbenm6544]

One way you can tell Bad Empanada is a tankie is how his fans can't contain their cope to just his channel, they must come here to give their dogshit takes. They just love a good invasion, no matter how low the stakes.

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

Who would would be the ones "invading"... it sure af isn't the Palestinians, they would be the ones fighting off an invading force settling on the land the lived in for over a thousand years. You literally need to pretend words mean their exact opposite for your comment to make any type of sense.

[@esbenm6544]

@@chenzomutumbo9140 No, you just guessed completely wrong at the context.

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@@esbenm6544 oh so your talking about how we colonized this comment section.... do you not find it ironic that you say we are invading when the topic is an actual invasion and displacement of Palestinians?

[@dreamer72]

@@chenzomutumbo9140 Yeah like a colonization, and I guess you deserve the wall

[@nguyenbaokhiem6728]

Define tankie

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

Did you really try to play the antisemitism card after it became clear eris' position was undefensible on it's own. Antisemitism is when you call an individual Jewish person a liar when they are demonstrably lying. I truly love the pivot from "eris is a great voice on Isreal Palestine" to "well let's talk about what i believe" afyer it became very clear that she was not taken out of context... LB: But but but she told me she believes the exact opposite after she recieved criticism for blatently being pro ethnostate (where I that benefit of the doubt for prof flowers who was actually descr8bing others opinions)

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

And other funny jokes you tell yourself when you cope and seethe that BE got humiliated again

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@@herec0mestheCh33f where is the joke? LB's own fans think he got smacked tf up. Name me a single portion of this went well for him? The south africa portion was especially stupid...

[@Markunator]

@@chenzomutumbo9140 No, we actually don’t think that.

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@@Markunator the ratios say otherwise

[@esbenm6544]

@@chenzomutumbo9140 Oh your precious ratio. BE simps are so sad.

[@chefnerd]

What a trainwreck of a convo ...

[@Jaximous]

nice pfp

[@yasminefathalah7042]

As arab myself I can tell you that BadEmpanada position is very similar to how the average Arab

[@Phalanx167]

It's amusing to me the ol' BE throws out moral considerations when they become troublesome for him, and pretends to shift to an amoral, materialist argument, while still smuggling in his moral indignation over land being stolen into the argument. If it were truly an amoral, materialist analysis then the land simply belongs to whoever can hold it. He just uses the excuse of a materialist lens inappropriately to dodge tougher moral questions that are potholes in his moral world view he wants to ignore. My guy is just slippery as fuck here.

[@bacicinvatteneaca]

You know that materialist doesn't mean amoral, right?

[@Phalanx167]

@@bacicinvatteneaca Yes, I do, but BE was saying he was putting aside all moral considerations and just focusing on the material, which is not enough to tell you anything. It's an is ought distinction. Also if BE's use of materialist analysis includes a moral dimension then asking LB to refrain from moral questioning is either absurdly stupid or sneaky and dishonest. You are basically asking him to stop debating and just sit and listen; to ignore the inconsistencies or gaps in the morality and just accept unquestioningly.

[@dantesurra]

So might makes right?

[@Phalanx167]

@@dantesurra No. The whole point is you cannot derive and ought from and is. You need a moral framework to evaluate such a thing. All a materialist framework can tell you with moral frameworks put to the is what simply is, and in its most raw state, ownership is just whoever can control and defend their claim. This is why I say it's slippery when BE says he wants to put morality aside and make a purely materialist analysis whenever Loner wants to bring up a moral complication, but BE continues to make moralistic arguements of his own at the same time. Whether he's aware of it or not he is just dodging every time he is being pressured by a moral challenging to his belief structure.

[@guyfauks2576]

@@Phalanx167 the material of settlers taking over the native land of the indigenous and legally displacing discriminating and killing them But please continue

[@mccluresrevenge7734]

What is meant by deserves the wall?

[@M0joPin]

Execution

[@mccluresrevenge7734]

@@M0joPin just curious if you know where that expression comes from? I’ve never heard it before

[@M0joPin]

@@mccluresrevenge7734 it refers to people being put against the wall to be executed by the firing squad. I mostly see this expression used by the far left folks on their social media.

[@seanmac1793]

@@mccluresrevenge7734 i believe it comes from the fact that when you do a firing sqaud you generally put someone against a wall so it stops the bullets from overpenetrating.

[@pogo8050]

@@mccluresrevenge7734 it also has an anti semitic undertones in this context because of the wall of lamentations and all that jazz

[@cosmonaut2265]

why should we negotiate on the terms of the invaders.

[@ineedapharmists]

On what other terms would you negotiate?

[@cosmonaut2265]

@@ineedapharmists on the terms of the indigenous people

[@r.w.bottorff7735]

Absolutely right!

[@addyrosario1623]

not even a BE fan but i find it funny how you call him a white colonizer while defending europeans colonizing palestine.

[@robm6645]

That's just who these people are, people who believe Europeans deserve dominion over everyone else, but think they should nice about it.

[@Koooles]

Where did he defended it and what do you even call defense?

[@danielshepard1449]

@@Koooles When he said that Palestinians returning to their homes that were stolen was "unactionable" he is saying we should allow Israelis to continue to live in occupied Palestine in houses they stole

[@lornm1856]

No but as a white colonizer he should criticize his peopoe not middle eastern europeans that had to return to where their ancestors were born

[@wwanca3771]

jewish people are not europeans and they are indigenous to israel literally proved by history,archeology,ethnogenesis

[@54tisfaction]

This was a debate..?

[@chaosvii]

Maybe it was an interview? BE has some ideas about dialogue I guess.

[@problemsolver3254]

nice

[@nukadirtbag9373]

So I take it you won't be having a discussion with Salim then?

[@Markunator]

Has he said that he won’t?

[@chenzomutumbo9140]

@L run away and blocked him while claiming victory... like a true champion

[@PaulWillisJr]

First time I've ever consumed any content with BE in it, and oh BOY what a character. Idk if I've ever heard a less self aware person have a conversation than this guy.

[@fullsend8738]

Dronerbox is pro apartheid even though he says he ain't. Cope

[@esbenm6544]

@@fullsend8738 OK, ethnic cleansing enjoyer

[@colethompson6914]

bad empandas essays are well sourced and argued unambiguously. Dronerbox is a fuckwit

[@hi__im_zack4890]

KZbin has been recommending me his videos, but I've been hesitant due things I've heard about him. This definitely help answer my questions on if i should watch BE. I heard people say his scripted videos were good, but i just cant imagine someone so willing to use bad faith argument in this debate would not use them outside of this debate.

[@jo0rd73]

Yeah I wouldn’t trust either based on how he acts without a script. It’s very easy to manufacture a more palatable persona when you’ve a script to follow, you can be a lot more careful to not let the mask slip.

[@RatherEmpty]

His scripted videos are legitimately pretty good, but he does get a bit unhinged whenever he has to talk without a script. Honestly wish he refrained from this drama-baiting and focused his efforts on his scripted videos.

[@mojorhythm]

It's almost like he's two totally different people. Kinda similar to Twitter shaun vs KZbin shaun

[@sakketin]

Yeah his scripted videos really are good. You could give them a chance while keeping in mind that BE is overall pretty untrustworthy. Nobody to my knowledge has caught him making up sources, lying etc in his scripted videos and there's very little that he says in them that would be outside mainstream leftist thought.

[@GrayYeonWannabe]

his older videos are excellent. well researched and well sourced. i stopped watching his new stuff but apparently his video quality has gotten worse since this kind of behavior started really picking up