Debunking new-age spirituality | Slavoj Žižek, Rupert Sheldrake, John Vervaeke and more

Slavoj Žižek, Rupert Sheldrake, Sophie-Grace Chappell, John Vervaeke, Michael Shermer, Nick Lane, Peter Sjöstedt-Hughes and Lisa Miller confront spiritualism, it’s ideologies and it’s toxic traits. Is spirituality problematic or beneficial?
00:00 Introduction
00:50 What is the current state of spirituality? | John Vervaeke
03:35 Is spirituality problematic? | Sophie-Grace Chappel, Slavoj Žižek
11:20 Is spirituality innate? | Lisa Miller, Rupert Sheldrake
19:00 Are there spiritual alternatives? | Peter Sjöstedt-Hughes, Nick Lane, Michael Shermer
#ProblematicSpirituality #FindingTranscendence #SpiritualityAndTheBrain
Debates and talks featured:
The shadow of spirituality (2023)
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The life and philosophy of Slavoj Žižek (2023)
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Beyond the boundary (2023)
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The oldest gods (2019)
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Finding transcendence in a secular world (2022)
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[@Eric-zo8wo]

0:00: 🤔 The New Age movement is a confused phenomena that stems from deeper spiritual confusions and attempts to deal with anomalous experiences and a hunger for meaning. 5:10: 🔥 The video discusses the reality of a mechanized society dominated by meaningless work and the church's support for it. 9:29: 💥 The video discusses the concept of observing phenomena and the ethical implications of actions. 14:04: 🙏 Practicing gratitude can lead to increased happiness and a sense of connection with others. 18:12: 🧠 The video discusses the interconnections between different forms of knowing and the role of transcendent experiences in scientific breakthroughs. 22:38: 📚 Spinoza's philosophy of mankind being part of nature challenged the Christian tradition and was met with suppression and ban. 25:28: 💭 The participants discuss the concept of an afterlife in a secular world and the idea of continuity through the distribution of atoms. Recapped using Tammy AI

[@TylerClibbon]

would be great to get an actual argument or conversation between rupert and a well informed sceptic without time restrictions, i think that would be the most exciting content on this channel ever

[@S_C_A_000]

There's a conversation between Rupert and Michael shermer which is interesting. Not on this channel but on KZbin somewhere

[@TylerClibbon]

@@S_C_A_000 yeah i saw, it was so short though, we need like a two week no time limit debate where they go through every experiment in excruciating detail

[@_THErunn1ngMAN_]

Academics acting as the gatekeepers of ideas is stifling the development of modern philosophy. Despite what is often their own, (but not always) individual brilliance within their particular field, being of great value to the wider subject, the ability of an independent-minded individual to pursue their own ideas freely and intuitively is the actual basis of philosophy. Why must the top-down dynamic of academics prescribing their findings be a one-way street?

[@xuzeh]

To that in an academic space: have new ideas… what you’ll get (from multiple experiences) is: ‘who said that?’, ‘which author claims this’, ‘what is the bibliography for this?’. I share this in (almost) no judgement, as an anecdotal fun fact. This is so clear, and getting clearer by the day, but they insist. Funny and ironical how medieval church never lost its power, it just acquired a new clothing 😊. Oh, well, for those who prefer sleeping we can offer comfy blankets.

[@calumroche2851]

@@xuzeh Often it's not gatekeeping, just where an indepenedent minded and curious individual finds themselves when pursuing that curiosity. Often the question "who said that" arises and their are historical antecedents we can draw on. Many great miinds have gone before us and tried out the dead ends etc and we can draw on all that.

[@HIIIBEAR]

How are they stopping you??

[@HIIIBEAR]

@@xuzehusually that’s because those arguments have been well argued. Has your new argument been argued against? Can you type 1 out here that someone dismissed because you didn’t cite ?

[@TimCCambridge]

👍👍My appeal to the new-age seeker is, that it's not that the ego must die... it is more that it can be found, relaxed and guided... so it can return to a wholesome integral balance with a more mature inspiring human spirit. something like that.

[@brandonlandon-rs3rr]

exactly. it is indeed something like that

[@filozofijazazivot]

Egoism must die completely. What does it mean? Egoism is the totality of negative thoughts, emotions and desires. So, that negative thoughts, emotions and desires need to be transmuted into positive. How? Every real spiritual tradition give us an answer: you become indifferent to that negativity, and consciously produce positive thoughts, emotions and desires. It works

[@TheMoopMonster]

@filozofijazazivot There is no way to permanently "kill" the ego. I have spent years, fasting, meditating, studying, doing psychedelics, spending time and conversing with other people attempting, or claiming to have accomplished that admirable pursuit of removing the ego. However, the more you attempt to push it away, the stronger it comes back at you. The more you repress your sexuality, your negative emotions, addictions, past regrets etc. The more aggressively the universe will test you. Like you said, the key is transmutation, reframing, and forgiveness. You can not exist as a self without ego or bias.

[@filozofijazazivot]

@@TheMoopMonster There are few people. If you read about Swami Rama, or Father Paisios or Porfirios, or Daskalos etc. you will see very similar results of transmuting the egoism. There are many more, of course.

[@brandonlandon-rs3rr]

@@filozofijazazivot The full death of the ego would entail the death of the body. The body and its needs are innately egoic. While there are some characteristics of the worldly ego that are pathological, whether in excess or simply by nature, it is not altogether vicious. In fact, some aspects of the ego (e.g. self-preservation, self-image, even the pursuit of certain pleasures like food and sex) are essential to human nature and the nature of the human body. Part of what it means to be human is to have an ego and to negotiate with it. You can carelessly define egoism as "the totality of negative thoughts, emotions, and desires" but that is simply not an accurate description.

[@masonjoseph7313]

Spirituality i don't think is problematic, at least not as problematic as religion, people who are into different practices or forms of spirituality, arent sitting in a circle arguing where as we see that more than often in religion, obviously there's something very different happening in spirituality.

[@andrewternet8370]

Argumentation is never important 😡

[@machtnichtsseimann]

It seems obvious, no? When I attended and participated in a Christian Spirituality Retreat, specifically on Listening / Contemplative Prayer, we weren't discussing our particular opinions on biblical passages, socio-political takes, denominational nuances. Yet, you and I might disagree. If "spirituality" isn't grounded in Truth, then it can be by definition problematic, possibly evil. It seems to me that conflict-avoidant individuals hide behind Spirituality while pointing fingers outward at "religious types". One can find hypocrisy and its under-girding pride anywhere and everywhere.

[@mysticfidah1563]

@@machtnichtsseimann pride exactly. Spiritual narcissism intact with post enlightenment individuals is a fine point to highlight.

[@tylerdavis520]

Whaddya know, Mrs. Doubtfire had some solid points

[@teachphilosophy]

There seems to be something missing in Shermer's final comments where he says the awe he experiences from the largeness of cosmos is same as awe he experiences in Cathedral. But this awe seems based on largeness/size. If one takes one thin idea and plasters it on the entire universe (e.g. deterministic law) the universe is so small even though its large. There's a type of awe in which one's own idea becomes writ large?

[@gabor6259]

The last 2 people really said it all. 👌

[@Hatrackman]

The Inquisition-imposed belief in 'human exceptionalism' made us all horrible and mentally addled. Life divines, it does not choose. No leaf falls, galaxy spins, or thought formulates randomly. Patience be with us.

[@PakiRaja]

New age spiritualism tries to ratify the fundamental differences between the fact that human consciousness is one of the defining factors of our universe, yet there is virtually no significance of our individual presence to the cosmos. I find beauty in the idea that in studying our universe, i.e. physical science, and studying ourselves, i.e. psychoanalysis, we might find a connection that ties us in our present forms to the great expanse from which we have come.

[@pawzmusic2767]

not to be a conspiracy theorist, but how do you know the people on your planet make sure that you can't meet Extra Terrestials very easily? I mean, how do you know???? What does our individual presence to the cosmos have to do with consciousness being one of the defining factors of the universe??

[@nokings92]

Can any song exist without the possibility of every note?

[@adrianbenedictmendoza6818]

This is all confusing, until you study Archons and stuff.. hehe

[@PakiRaja]

@@pawzmusic2767 even if extra terrestrials exist, then their consciousness is still an individual facet of a greater consciousness, until proven otherwise, the ability of the universe to reflect upon itself this way does not seem like a trivial feature.

[@uMaud]

What does "the ability of the universe to reflect upon itself" even mean ? How is the fact a species has specialized itself to become incredibly intelligent a defining facet of the universe ? The universe per definition is everything that exists. You yourself admitted that most things that exist in the universe would not be going through any change if we were to suddenly disappear. How is something with so little consequence over the majority of what exists a defining feature of everything that exists ?

[@fromeveryting29]

Yeah, new age is associated with tons of psoudo-science, a desire to escape discomfort, gain special «powers» and feeling above the daily societal struggle because they lack understanding and control over it. A lot like Marx said.

[@Consciousness_of_Reality]

Extremely ignorant take, Marx is by Far the worst kind of philosopher.

[@givemorephilosophy]

Science spirituality and religion all are now complete once put in the missing pieces in each thanks to understanding both the formless form and their coexistence. I can answer any questions scientific spiritual or religious that my one needs an answer to as a proposal for evaluation validation . On confirmation you can share it as your own understanding and claims to it. Thanks to internet we can hope to have 8 billion people who know everything in a few years. I continue to live my life with an aim to share this knowledge, make enough for my family, enjoy interactions with other human beings 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@futures2247]

Rupert's claims on the meditation research are about long term meditators monks and the like - so they are embedded in a totalising culture - what is available on the NHS has been rightly called Mcminfulness

[@HappyPrometheus]

New-age spirituality is a wide spectrum of beliefs and ideas, often based on Hindu/Buddhist beliefs but also on other spiritual traditions, it can't be just "debunked". Especially not with mechanistic materialism which is incompatible with the existence of life, feeling and consciousness.

[@kammonkam4905]

So Hindu Buddhist beliefs are true because?

[@Redsauce101]

@@kammonkam4905 Beliefs are true because. This whole thing is a "i'm intelligent" meme.

[@HappyPrometheus]

@@kammonkam4905 It is true because: 1. Of the thousands years of successful theory and practice of Buddhist and Hindu yogis who have proven it so, at least to those who are willing to listen. However there are Christian saints who have also demonstrated the same truths, so spirituality is beyond religion. 2. Their view of reality where consciousness is the ground of being is ontologically consistent with the existence of life and human consciousness

[@Nalber3]

Great comment

[@andrew-virabhava]

“I can’t be debunked” This is when spirituality becomes religion. Christianity is, for example a belief system - if you don’t believe that Jesus is the saviour, and accept his sacrifice for humanities sins, then there is no salvation for you. Belief is required (no debunking allowed). Spirituality (or at least the ancient wisdom traditions) invite an open approach and beginners mind. And to seek out in your direct experience what it is the teachings are suggesting. In other words, debunking is invited in the form of open minded inquiry into the nature of being. The teachings are not to be simply blindly believed. By claiming new age can’t be debunked, to me, it’s sounding much closer to religion. My main argument for why it can and should be debunked is that people are attracted to the new age in search of meaning. They unknowingly cherry pick from different traditions with different paths and goals, so therefore remain ever lost, always seeking.

[@RickDelmonico]

'Mind stuff' has not been properly explained. Perhaps it is the 'stuff' portion of our explanation that is the problem.

[@markwhite2207]

I'm sure Slavo speaks a lot of sense...if only I could work out what it is....

[@exhainca]

Not snooty and ivory tower enough for you?

[@smolderingtitan]

He was saying in this video that it is possible to use religion/spirituality to justify morally bad actions. He used examples of Eastern religion to demonstrate this. It wasn't one of his more difficult set of statements. Try listening again if you like and you'll be able to work it out if what I said is helpful.

[@jodawgsup]

imagine being so empty-brainded that throws you off, I guess you don't read either, huh?

[@markwhite2207]

@@jodawgsup so empty brained that I have to make up for it with a sense of humour....

[@jodawgsup]

@@markwhite2207 what humour?

[@joshfehr9768]

Meaning and morals require reality for either to be moral or meaningful..You cannot get rid of romanticism any more than you can get rid of biases, even if you succeed there is no more you to experience, conscious mortal beings require biases to navigate, and romance to find meaning

[@jodawgsup]

Cheap platitudes that you have yet to prove.

[@cjlooklin1914]

​@@jodawgsuplol, your biases are showing. What EXACTLY do you disagree with? Do you believe that life is without meaning and or also without moral?

[@colesmatteo]

i think sheldrake is wrong about nearly everything and that morphic resonance is total bunk, but i do think he's bright and i like listening to him. if anything i try to think of counter-arguments to what he says.

[@g.paradise5972]

Love is confusing is that human beings seek it so veraciously without exemplifying it themselves. That, in my mind, will lead you on a never ending search. You may seek out knowledge and find it, but if you don’t have love, you have nothing.

[@adrianbenedictmendoza6818]

Bingo.. everything we do here is ego trip.

[@VenusLover17]

❤❤

[@nunoalexandre6408]

in the..end...Only..Love::remains...

[@RenePatrique]

Jah, Man! - ONE LOVE ❤

[@grayire]

Shout out my boy Dr Vervaeke

[@sibsibs83]

Just read Rudolf Steiner.

[@Michael_X313]

I just feel there's stupid bs everywhere. It's nearly ubiquitous. I'm not a idol worship person of any kind but I do appreciate clips. For example, Jeebus talking about how it is those who can humble themselves like little children who are the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

[@RenePatrique]

Lisa Miller really hits the nail on the head for me here - starting 16:04 - 👍

[@jordanedgeley6601]

Brilliant from the start

[@traviswadezinn]

Very engaging diversity of presenters and considerations

[@CitizenPoe]

Engaging? I think you were looking for disturbing, hilarious, and revealing of the idiocy of this moment.

[@KalebPeters99]

​@@CitizenPoeWho may you point to for a better take on this topic?

[@thstroyur]

@@KalebPeters99 Go read some G. K. Chesterton, man - you'll see the abyss of difference with (most) (')thinkers(') in this montage

[@Thomas-gk42]

I miss Sabine Hossenfelder here. Though she´s often insulted as a "hard" or "cold" materialist, reductionist..., her book "Existential Physics" is the most spiritual and hopeful literature, I read for a long time.

[@MeLCHiZeDeK_AuTHoR999]

who gave the mic to thing

[@lc2c177]

Lots of issues w the debate, homogenising a group under the “new age” umbrella. Some parts of that umbrella are close to science than the “scientists” are willing to admit.

[@cjlooklin1914]

Im a recently converted new-age spiritualist (2022), a scientist and engineer and Slavoj Zizek is my favorite modern philosoher I'm sure this video is going to be a treat! :)

[@robertf6409]

As in you have become spiritual?

[@cjlooklin1914]

@@robertf6409 Yup

[@seanocarroll8627]

western esotericism is a much more interesting subject than 'new-age spirituality'. Meaning-making is universal.

[@pugix]

Disjointed conversation hacked together from different talks. A few common words do not make for a theme.

[@csmoviles]

Love how the truth was spoken in the beginning: new age is a confused phenomenon. And yet, in the Bible we are told that God is not the author of confusion, but of order... Hmmm...i wonder who the author of confusion is in this world.

[@manuelkanakaris64]

Hi we are going create ideas to debunk an imaginary version of reality! ~ science

[@joshmastiff1128]

Yeah misrepresentation won't bring about truthfulness in fiction

[@ahartify]

Britain seems to have a mania for competitive debate, or competitive reality TV programmes. People compete in cookery, antiques buying, house buying, painting pictures, dancing, singing, knowledge quizzes... You name it, everything is up for it and grist for the mill. Probably comes down to Britain's historical macho competitive sporting ethic.

[@joshmastiff1128]

Sheldrake is truly bizarre and have encapsulated minds. There are so many things that can describe what he speaks of and yet, somehow people love it when it's mystical and untouchable. Intuition, great but dangerous. Truly

[@ozzieozzieford5332]

intuition = danger??

[@joshmastiff1128]

@@ozzieozzieford5332 no he plays on intuition, presents it as mystified facts and does what he does. That is dangerous

[@jimosborne2]

@@joshmastiff1128of course then there’s Einstein essentially ratifying the importance of imagination ( and presumably in whole or in part intuition)

[@joshmastiff1128]

@@jimosborne2 it truly is important. But there's playing on something to mislead and actually using it as a source of knowledge

[@jimosborne2]

@@joshmastiff1128exactly. And there’s good science, and corrupt science.

[@RickDelmonico]

We cannot assume all mysteries will be resolved. The boundary between the unknown and the unknowable is impermeable.

[@alanjones5639]

Our world is so full of wonders! The need to replace wonder with awe, to imagine a separate world wherein wishful thinking is unhampered by reasonable thinking, is rooted in fear. Otherworldly stories help the fearful to be certain and help those guilty of evil to feel justified (Slavoj Žižek). Did anyone mention the relation between spiritual experience and psychosis? Our understandings are misrepresented without it. Nick Lane and Michael Shermer are obviously happy with ambiguity and explanation. Like Feynman, they feel the joy of finding things out.

[@stilljaywalking4957]

All human inquiries in Science and Theology converge on the same mystery, with seemingly separate puzzles being different aspects of one overarching puzzle. The merger of Science and Religion promises a refined Religion and a more complete Science. To achieve this integration, it's essential to distinguish between the Exoteric and Esoteric dimensions of Religion. The Exoteric involves outer mysteries like rituals, miracle stories, and fantastical narratives, often incompatible with Science. For meaningful unity, these outer mysteries need revision or relegation to allegory. Conversely, the Esoteric, found in the inner mysteries of major religions, aligns with Reason and a scientific outlook, potentially providing answers to key scientific questions. Thus, the dual nature of Religion-Exoteric and Esoteric-requires reevaluation for a harmonious integration with Science. Many are unaware that the founders of world religions, such as Jesus, Buddha, and Muhammad, believed in the concept that an individual's true identity is God. Despite encountering various moral and metaphysical ideas in the study of religions, the notion that everyone is God is rarely found, except perhaps in Hinduism. A closer look reveals that religions universally consist of two distinct divisions: the outer mysteries (exoteric traditions) and the inner mysteries (esoteric traditions). The former includes what most understand as religion-rules, rituals, myths, and celebrations-while the latter delves into more complex and less easily accepted aspects. For example, Rabbinical Judaism, associated with the Torah and synagogue worship, represents the outer mysteries, while the Kabbalah, considered the hidden teachings of Moses, embodies the inner mysteries. Similarly, in Islam, the zahir pertains to outer meanings, and the batin refers to hidden meanings. Buddhism includes mahayana and theravada traditions (Greater and Lesser Vehicle), alongside vajrayana Buddhism, known as the Diamond Vehicle and believed to be the hidden teachings of the Buddha. In Christianity, the Gospels describe Jesus revealing the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven exclusively to disciples, using parables for others to "be ever seeing but never perceiving and though ever hearing, never understanding." This early mystical interpretation of Christ's teachings suggests that his message was not just about his own divinity but also the divinity of everyone else. The cutting edge of Science and the bleeding edge of high technology, that is neuroscience, genomics, evolutionary developmental biology, cosmology and artificial intelligence, is totally convergent with and really the flip side of the same coin, in relation to some of the key ideas of the so called esoteric or hidden religion i.e. Christian Gnosticism, Jewish Kabbalah, Muslim Sufism and Shism, Taoism, Vajrayana Buddhism and the Tantra or Advaita Vedanta of Hinduism. Seen in this light the so called Technological Singularity or Apocalypticism for Nerds is therefore the correct interpretation of Christian Prophecy; the Transhumanist idea of a person as God is really adapted esoteric religion; the idea of the physical Universe as a computer simulation is identical to mystical notions of the illusory nature of reality; and the idea of a Fractal Brain Theory perfectly extrapolating to a fractal universe, that is as a giant brain or mind, is exactly as the ancient idea of the microcosm as a reflection of the macrocosm, or put another way, that we are formed in the likeness of the cosmic and transcendent divine image. The Fractal Brain Theory proposes a remarkable insight into the functioning of the brain and mind. It suggests that a single unifying recursive process underlies all the component sub-processes of the brain and mind, providing a surprising simplicity to their seemingly mysterious operations. This theory aligns with the idea that a critical breakthrough or a set of basic principles could unlock the puzzle of the brain and lead to true artificial intelligence (AI). Some leading researchers, such as Eric Horvitz and Ray Kurzweil, anticipate a "deep theory" or a "universal cortical algorithm" that captures the functionality of the cerebral cortex, a major part of the human brain. On the other hand, skeptics like Ben Geortzel and Marvin Minsky doubt the existence of a critical algorithm. The Fractal Brain Theory supports the former camp, offering a unified theory that spans not only the cerebral cortex but also other major brain structures and even extends to the genomic level. It introduces the concept of recursive self-modification, a process fundamental to the development of life and intelligence, with potential implications for understanding evolution and the future of AI, including the speculated Technological Singularity. The theory's bold claim is that a singular algorithm and process can explain the entire spectrum of biological and cognitive phenomena, connecting the genome, brain, mind, behavior, and even the transformative potential of artificial intelligence.

[@Michael-xl5hc]

I think ritual and ceremony already happens in science. Scientific procedures, chemistry, mechanics, etc, etc. all of these things can be perfected with the “perfect procedure” that simply must be done that way because of one reason or another.(efficiency, cleanliness, etc.) Now, that doesn’t tie into some sort of higher power, but I don’t believe ritual needs exoteric powers to have meaning or purpose in a magical system. That is all to say that I agree with you, science and religion melding must happen for both to take a step forward. And I think they are more congruent and ready to be integrated than you believe. Dia-logos

[@uMaud]

I have never met a single scientists who would say a belief in spiritualism or religion improved his job. Lab procedures are not rituals for the simple fact that they need to be adaptated depending on what you want to obtain. A cake recipe is not a ritual and does require religion to achieve an eddible state. Religion is absolutely not necessary for science making, as demonstrated by the achievements of those who were atheists. It is not necessarly incompatible (the father of the theory of the big bang was a christian priest), but it's not necessary. Ethics are a necessary part of the science process, and it isn't inherently tied to religion. But do try to convince me religion would useful to a researcher. Can I get a divine prophecy telling me what genes are responsible for this new mutation I've found in mice ? Can tarot cards give an astrophysicist the answer to the equation he's trying to solve ? Can an ouija board describe to me what the living being I've found the fossilied remains of ? No ? Then it isn't of any use to a practicing scientist. Religion tries to answer completely different questions than science. Science is concrete, religion is intuitive. They've got nothing to say to each other.

[@stilljaywalking4957]

@@uMaud Okay feel free to ignore this comment just as you've ignored 75% of my original comment exemplifying how religion compliments science and vice versa. But I will say that I'll meet you part way in acknowledging that you're right, its not necessary to consider religion when making empirical discernments. However, while not necessary, I do believe it is OPTIMAL. To reiterate; the punchline at the end of high-science is that developments in neuroscience, genomics, evolutionary developmental biology, cosmology and artificial intelligence, are convergent with and satisfy some of the key ideas of the so called esoteric or hidden religion.

[@Michael-xl5hc]

@@uMaud yeah I don’t think a merger of science and “religion” works. And I might argue that science and spirituality are a little more closely tied, being that they involve questioning the nature of the universe. Indeed many notable scientists believed in off beat pseudoscience topics like alchemy and the like, mostly due to their spiritualist tendencies (looking at you Newton) Good spirituality needs some science, I’m not sure science “needs” spirituality specifically so much as it needs more philosophical influence to expand and refine its search for truth and meaning.

[@ptadisbander7959]

Thomas metzinger spirituality and intellectual honesty essay is amazing. Can be googled and is extremely relevant to this topic. Also explored in his recently released book “Bewussteinskultur” that will Be published in English too.

[@nokings92]

I was around 23 when I first read his book, "The Ego Tunnel." It's one of the few books that have fundamentally changed my life.

[@pshaio5442]

New Age poses immense porblems and -- no surprise -- humanity has not risen to the challenge. But that does not mean that the spirituality is wrong, just that it has proved hard to incorporate into culture. We will keep at this, never win, but never quite lose! Maintain a sense of humor!

[@GGora]

And what do you actually know about new age?? Enlighten us.

[@notloki3377]

i love people who ask for information without actually wanting any.@@GGora

[@HIIIBEAR]

True second someone says their intuition is from god then I say god shaped everything even lies.

[@Simon-xi8tb]

My boy Michael Shermer getting so unconfortable...I feel you man.

[@jordanedgeley6601]

Sounds like a you problem

[@Simon-xi8tb]

@@jordanedgeley6601 Sounds more like a world epidemic and you are infected.

[@johndoolan9732]

Ask anything you want

[@toi_techno]

Religion should be completely private to people who need it and exposing children to it should be seen in the same light as smacking (you can do it legally but you're a bad parent if you do)

[@wills7817]

I see. So, should there be government guidance for this? I'm agnostic but your statement is absurd.

[@obliviousMatrix7]

The people we just listen to are why I am living today. These are the greatest minds of our time.

[@SubparFiddle]

Sheldrake and Miller really get the idea that there’s something deeper about our shared, conscious lived experience. It’s a bit deeper than just science vs spirituality or the battle between the big institutional religions. There are actual, logical, testable ideas that can reconnect and heal the species at first principles.

[@thstroyur]

But you cannot pull said first principles up from their bootstraps, because they are the principles from which supposedly your actual, logical, testable ideas are being measured against. So you see, there's a bit more to the battle between the big institutional religions than sitting the most butts on pews.

[@SubparFiddle]

@@thstroyur what do you mean? Sorry I’m an idiot lol

[@thstroyur]

@@SubparFiddle I mean, you cannot judge any principles or guidelines to understanding reality from a complete vacuum; paradoxically enough, even to be skeptical of something, requires having faith in something else. Faith is not the issue; the issue is - how do we know which tradition is based in Truth? Nowadays, though, everything has been so much deconstructed, that even the concept of Truth became meaningless. These are (a few of) the reasons we struggle so much spiritually as a society.

[@SubparFiddle]

@@thstroyur I don't know, I just see these new ideas as making people healthier and happier, pretty simple. I think people are still just wary that these ideas are kinda being "rediscovered" in a way, from ancient teachings being brought to a wider audience through the internet.

[@thstroyur]

@@SubparFiddle " I just see these new ideas as making people healthier and happier" And why should people be made healthier and happier? Where do you get that from? Besides, people have terrible judgment most of the time: yeah, you can say subjectively that doing hard drugs is fun for a while and makes you feel great - but objectively, they're destroying your body, your social life, etc. So no, I don't give the slightest damn as to what is making people 'happy' at any given moment, because that kind of material 'happiness' has nothing transcedental about it, and it's ultimately worthless as we're all going to kick the bucket.

[@zemlca]

Spirituality is side effect of materialism

[@manlikeJoe1010]

Precisely backwards. Materialism is the unfortunate result of a fundamentally broken metaphysics/spirituality

[@zemlca]

New age* spirituality i ment as the title suggest

[@alvaromd3203]

The guy paying tribute to his grandmother is a genius.

[@earthgoddesses]

Oh leave us alone we are just trying to find ourselves in this crazy world ! Disillusioned with organised religion. Of course we will make mistakes along the way.

[@ExitiumFelicitas]

why dont we have a mystic here in the panel?

[@theprasun]

What's He-man doing over there?

[@robertalenrichter]

Not "it's" -- the possessive in English is "its".

[@onagoodday5557]

You'e kidding me, this is ridiculous. I tried, but arrived at the manspreading woman and couldn't cope. Funniest thing I've seen for a long time

[@jodawgsup]

what?

[@ehudshapira2745]

If this is a difficulty you can't cope with, perhaps that is something that you should reflect on. Compared with the issues discussed, why is that such a huge deal?

[@Misinformed2023]

Mike Shermers was just trying to be himself, as a true skeptic, he was trying to figure out who or what was sitting to his left

[@IamWadeHeineman]

The guy on the right with glasses strikes me as fearful of difference and fearful of creative thought.

[@sinclickbait6023]

Having a look at the overall quality of the comments section, I believe th e IAI will do us all a favor by not being as click bait oriented... I guess many of us were like "wowowow, wait a minute" seeing Sheldrake and Vervaeke on the thumbnail and reading the title "debunking"... The only opinion that was explicitly trying to debunk eastern religion and spirituality was that of Žižek, with a couple of ad hominem anecdotes here and there, like Himmler having a copy of the Bhagavad Gita. Otherwise Stalin was supposed to be a Marxist, should we abolish Marx because of that fact?

[@aaronlopez717]

How those Leaders -writers -or so Can Understand -see - read Economist, even commercial media on economics Can talk to a working people whose salary in USA or Euro salaries is the surviving mood / or this show is for $$$$$$ income worry- free society - income .?

[@SatMatt7]

As usual, Rupert Sheldrake knocks it out of the park with his gentle wisdom. I know his words are true. My life revolves around mediation, kirtan & giving thanks - I couldn't be happier!

[@PuppetMasterdaath144]

So youre saying I didnt have an spiritual awakening?

[@extremelyunfocusedman]

Did you kill your eagle though???

[@lizzettorres1111]

Idk why people say spirituality is new age, it's been around longer than religion. Ancient civilizations understood the universe without any equipment. Universities are studying higher consciousness, near death experiences and the military has been using remote viewing and astral projection for yrs. Also, if you've never had a spiritual awakening you don't know the truth about God, duality, the universe...

[@andrew-virabhava]

As far as I'm aware, no one is saying spirituality is new age. Traditional spirituality is the search for meaning and in that search, the softening and opening to and accepting of all experience. In contrast to the new age which is a modern idea that one can pick and choose from different paths with different goals, constantly chasing feel-good moments, avoiding anything unpleasant - hence the new age motto's of 'love and light' and 'inhale the positive exhale the negative'. The new age is also generally more concerned with commodification. If spirituality is to be taken more seriously in terms of science and medicine, then we need to make the distinction between the magical thinking of the new age and the dedicated path of transformative wisdom traditions. We need to define more clearly what we mean by spirituality.

[@WillFast140]

The military is using astral projection? Hahahah to do what?

[@lizzettorres1111]

@@andrew-virabhava People who don't understand spirituality call it "new age woo woo". Traditional spirituality and people who say love and light, and meditate all know the same thing. That God is not an old man with a beard who lives in the sky, that God is just a word that religious people call the unconditional love and light energy thst created all, that everything is energy vibrating at different frequencies and everything is an illusion. We are souls, not these bodies.. . I don't know and hv never heard of any spiritual person who is constantly chasing feel-good moments and avoids everything unpleasant. There is a difference between people who've learned these things and people who've experienced the truth either through an awakening, an NDE or another spiritual experience. The ones who learned about it may hv thought being awake to the truth is all beautiful flowers but eventually learn it takes work rid yourself of the self sabotage by clearing out the programming in our subconscious, that we create our reality by changing how we think and speak.

[@ozzieozzieford5332]

ever heard of MKultra?? @@WillFast140

[@animesh7296]

I think it has been some time that zizek has lost his mind. Old age does that to you.

[@MS-od7je]

Epicycles

[@manlikeJoe1010]

@22:34 "Spinoza was the first philosopher to bring mind and matter together" - lmao what 🤦‍♂🤦‍♂🤣

[@cheoresono3896]

It is at least fair to expect some kind of reasoning, if not proof, when somebody says "spirituality is confusing and it is pseudo.." For me listening to someone saying "spirituality is confusing" without any proof or at least some kind of reasoning, even though this person has an impressive title next to his/her name, is same as listening to nothing.

[@HappyPrometheus]

Yes, it is all about control for him, everything has to be under control.

[@cheoresono3896]

@@HappyPrometheus Poor guy.. I honestly symphatize with him. Seeking control is like following a dead end street forever and hoping ever to reach a crossing…😜

[@daodejing81]

I listen, but I always draw from my inexhaustible inner well of wisdom. My root is within. I don't need a book, I don't need a savior, I don't need a guru. All is clear within me. The formula for a successful spiritual path is, observe, reflect. Simple. The insights will arise on their own. Religion leads people astray, to look outside of yourself. The new age movements, alas, fall into the same pattern. The followers DEPEND upon their books, their saviors, their gurus. No one understands the simple truth, to look within. As a result, billions and billions of people are pretending to know, they pretend to be enlightened, when they are so clearly not.

[@josipstrugar1]

Yes. The truth is within But what is to make out of all of this? How should we move forward as a species?

[@daodejing81]

@@josipstrugar1 Begin within yourself. Observe, meditate. It begins with YOU.

[@adrianbenedictmendoza6818]

Ego.. know what ego is

[@daodejing81]

@adrianbenedictmendoza6818 No Adrian, we are not ego. Ego is the conceptual individual, the person in this world, whom we believe ourselves to be. Truly knowing yourself, Adrian, is to realize that You are Consciousness observing life, in a body that is temporary. You access your true Self by observing and meditating, by experiencing and reflecting. Use your adversities, your observations, your turmoil, your loneliness, your quietude as pathways to access the depth that lies hidden within you, to access your inner well of wisdom. Within you, in stillness, in silence, insights will arise and from these will come your wisdom to guide you. Keep on the path of wisdom, your inner Guidance, and you will find your way through life, however it presents itself to you. The Buddha himself said, know it for yourself. Don't take the word of another. Know it by your own experience. The kingdom of God is within you. The Holy Spirit will teach you everything, will guide you into all truth. JESUS Adrian, you are already well on your way, for if you weren't, you would not be questioning. You may listen to others, but always evaluate everything from within yourself. Lastly, wisdom is conveyed in symbols and figurative language, in images. Don't be concerned about the words, rather consider That to which they point. Example: Daoism speaks of Mother as Source, and Jesus speaks of Father as Source. Some refer to Source as God, Gnostics refer to Source as Root, Great Mind. I personally call Source, the Ineffable Intelligence. Over time, you will apply your own vocabulary to your perceptions. This is YOUR journey. Delight in it.

[@mattiu51]

@@daodejing81 This is beautifully said.

[@badreddine.elfejer]

Vervake such a wise man of science 😊

[@jiojiojoj]

Ironic.

[@wthomas5697]

What's the deal with the guy in the dress?

[@pshaio5442]

Sophie-Grace, a man dwho thinks he is a woman, from this person I should take my cues about spirituality? Not likely!

[@rachelrrb1111]

Transsexualism is a neurobiological, congenital mismatch between hypothalamus and physical sex, it has nothing to do with the question whether someone is competent about spirituality. Your post shows you know nothing about it, it’s like if you said someone in a wheelchair can’t talk about spirituality. Dumb.

[@kensho123456]

I forgive you for refusing my Phd application SGC --- BTW where's Sabine Hossenfelder

[@trentp151]

You can choose to acknowledge your spirit, or you can choose to ignore your spirit. Neither changes the fact that Humanity has a largely unknown and untapped subconscious realm that we can tap into that has guidance, ideas, creativity, morality, and many other tools we can use to individuate ourselves in so many beautiful ways. Science and Marxism would both rather do away with the spirit because it makes their mechanical-worldview work. Sadly, the natural world is NOT mechanical. So, take your pick: Do you want to be a slave in a mechanical world, or a beautiful, unique individual in an ever-changing and profoundly diverse world?

[@cia-mac]

Impossible to listen to Zizek, I wont bother about the mark (caron) above the Z either. Everything about him is annoying.

[@aminam9201]

You can’t feel shame like humans!

[@carleysunn7279]

I really dig this. And yeah “debunking new age spirituality” is just a click bate title. I think this video sells spiritual practice more than debunks it. All of existence is spiritual, one can’t get around the fact that existence is a mystery. The question is: what do you do with your existence that you experience now? And all sorts of old age and new age spiritual practices can help steer that ship. My favorite path is one of service. You may not know how to help the whole world, but maybe you know how to help your neighbor, and this leads to less thought of self and more union. And when you find out who you really are, this is all you and you are all this, how can you not serve it. It’s you.

[@tionblack]

These guys are afraid they realising gathered intellectual material doesnt mean anything ,to be rich is to know thyself and look inside.

[@ceeemm1901]

Define "New Age Spiritualities"...with concrete examples. I'd hate this to be as vacuous as calling people "Woke"

[@yednekachewgeremew1886]

Spenozo is like Snoop dog he like to somke some we 😂😂😂 nature is nature i.o God is watcher or convener of nature in it is form and mater then he give us seed and the resut of How to walk and act even if we like we😂

[@audiblebooksvideo7340]

we went post islamic world , where there is no hate for non muslim .

[@kafkawilde4604]

new age spiritualism? too vague a concept

[@harrydebastardeharris987]

They all look pretty well fed to me,not exactly the common people whatever Z says,they are irrelevant.

[@blessos]

Why is the moderator wearing that silly costume???

[@freegaeltobias]

Of course the man in a dress is an Episcopalian quoting Marx. Can't believe anyone on the stage is taking this man seriously.

[@fehmi35]

What the hell is even that ???

[@eccentricaste3232]

Watch the video, silly.

[@abbasballout4441]

Daddy chill

[@naramsin1853]

Exactly, that pinky thing makes me wanna puke.

[@himanshudwivedi1313]

From 9:46 😅

[@vivienneb6199]

This dude fathered 4 children, and got his degrees as a man, and still has the nerve to school us on "meaning" when he is mocking women with a bad wig and grandma outfit.

[@justinthillens2853]

It's not a mockery, it's an alignment of active presentation with a temperament she associates with the cultural coding of "she/her/hers" such that she can best create a fulfilling relationship between herself and reality. If anyone ought to be mocked, it should be those who think it their right to deny others of that fulfillment.

[@vivienneb6199]

@@justinthillens2853 No sweetie, his "presentation" of "woman" is a joke. He is an AGP, and I have don't care about how he, a narcissist, feels. He can go F himself with his regressive gender ideology, and you can too.

[@purple-lu2pj]

Lol, why you care?

[@vivienneb6199]

@@purple-lu2pj I don't like manipulative a-holes impersonating women. I support the sex-based rights of women, not creepy homely dudes. If he claims to be a cross dresser, and so male, no problem. He just needs to stay out of female only spaces.

[@purple-lu2pj]

@@vivienneb6199 idk anything about him. But even if he considers himself to be a woman, what's the problem? If you don't like him, just don't interact with him or content where he is in.

[@idonotlikethismusic]

Funny that you only have western thinkers and no one from the original spiritual traditions, i.e., Hinduism and its offshoots Buddhism and Jainism.

[@smolderingtitan]

A rather hodge podge video.

[@Thomas-gk42]

Regardless of what he said here (it´s ok for me, but not very new), it´s ridiculous, to hear and see Rupert Sheldrake here under the headline "debunking new age...). This guy propagates, that the sun and all stars are concious and even crazier stuff, in a perfect example of pseudoscientific reasoning.

[@Consciousness_of_Reality]

How can consciousness come to be with our body is made of atoms just like the Sun and all stars?

[@Thomas-gk42]

@@Consciousness_of_RealityConciousness doesn´tcome from the atoms, it´s an emergent property of the structures of our brain, they are incredible complex. The sun, as huge as it is, is just a hot plasma sphere, with very simple structure, where atoms have no fixed location.

[@Consciousness_of_Reality]

@@Thomas-gk42 How can immaterial phenomena come from material phenomena? if it was this way, wouldnt consciousness not exist? Why not each atom of the sun itself not have consciousness?

[@Thomas-gk42]

@@Consciousness_of_RealityWhat about life? Equal how you define it, you could say it´s just chemistry. But there´s something totally new about life, right? One can say it´s mystic or immarerial, but still emergent of chemistry. I think it´s the same about human concsiousness, somehow still not understood and mysterious, but based on biology and brain functions. A single particle can´t have more properties, as the standard model of particle physics and QM allows. Of course, you can believe in that, but then it´s faith, not science.

[@tez383]

The title of this video needs to be debunked -- it's nothing more than lazy click-bait. None of the speakers debunked new-age spirituality. At most, they illustrated how imperialism/Christianity/capitalism appropriated and distorted spirituality or spiritual concepts for its own agenda, as they have done with *virtually everything* in the world to varying degrees.

[@Consciousness_of_Reality]

And they do it because of a lack of an efficient and coherent spirituality.

[@able9654]

its laughable to see materialistic trying to debunk spirituality 😅.

[@joooood233]

This man's logic is very sus

[@anchorbubba]

what a convenient lie that their is nothing tok life but working for wages and paying taxes for buisnessmans bonus

[@vivalaleta]

That's capitalism. Not life.

[@anchorbubba]

@@vivalaleta more like energy harvesting than economics

[@vivalaleta]

@@anchorbubba hmmm... that's an interesting viewpoint.

[@anchorbubba]

@@vivalaleta based on distribution, its hard too see otherwise

[@meandego]

If man changes his gender to women, should we pay him lower salary for better experience?

[@eancarana]

Look at Miller's expression around the 9:25 mark. When she says 'Thank you' her expression says "Great...another man fantasizing about harming me because I am their enemy, but he's not totally evil because he feels guilty about it." Also: "And he's doing it in public, in front of an audience, to be watched by anyone on KZbin. And everyone's okay with it. What an asshole."

[@extremelyunfocusedman]

That's most likely a figure of speech, instead of a public display of malice. What makes you think you're right in such strong assumptions of others? I think people are overly sensitive and create unnecessary issues and dramas when there's none.

[@bryanutility9609]

Soavoj ruins it every time. This guy can not speak or makes sense he should only write im sorry but skill matters

[@missh1774]

How did the guy in the dress turn inward like that? Like how did he talk to himself about God? I mean ... When did looking outside of himself break his ability to discern the flow of consciousness? Hmm one more time... When what you see outside is broken and dispair hits rock bottom, how does a man look into the sun and not become blind from the transmission of its inner realms? If it doesn't blend properly and the conditions are not satisfied for transfer of learning... I spose you could become inward facing self, rather than outward facing and cutting through the dispair to God. 🤔💭. Zizek! 💛 The guy who reminds me of a prince who ran away from his duties to become a travelling philosopher. Love Sheldrake's depth of knowledge in his field of science.

[@louisfifteen]

Why don't you try to debunk religion, christianity and Islam f.x.??? It is much more important than this debunking. The 2 greatest religions, number wise, have kept most of the earths' pouplations enslaved for two millennia. Do you wise men have anything to say about the superstitions held by billions.

[@sinatra222]

Why is that bloke wearing a wig and a dress 🤷‍♂️

[@thetruthexperiment]

Debunking something as broad as 300 year old “new age” beliefs is clickbait. So… everyone besides Rupert can get on their knees and do the nasty for all j care. This is pure absurdity. It’s literally cheating to put words together like this. Pure clickbait that admittedly i fell for.