Debunking Your Horrible Dragon ball Hot Takes w/

[@CarthusDojo]

thanks for havng me 🤝🤝🤝

[@Faris27993]

Much Love Carthu

[@TSO_Sage]

always 🫡💯

[@thelnr2]

MINOR SPELLING MISTAKE 😭😭😭

[@jeancarloshernandez9863]

@@CarthusDojo Love your content bro you were mad funny with them hot takes 🤣

[@itays5647]

The goat

[@Menace_1129]

Always knew Carthu was down with the brothers

[@dolionaadofa1947]

Fr fr

[@johnboomthegamer7533]

Fr fr

[@LandrixM]

Fr fr (Make this a chain Fr fr)

[@mira3725]

Fr fr

[@jjropo3.]

Fr Fr

[@9raff]

Always knew Carthu was invited to the cookouts

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

Now we need Geekdom or Laughing Stock Media

[@dzas_cave]

Nah we need Quaaman

[@Munchycrunch456]

@@devaughnfranklin6683both of them are corny get lonk in here

[@justanotheryoutuber1997]

Oh brother

[@n-nani753]

😂 don’t forget tekking 101 dat boi get real srs bout his one piece

[@zolelwavanqa6745]

No way Carthu secretly had this much Black Air Force Energy💀

[@richborn6700]

Despite him looking whiter than a pair of fresh forces

[@rgamer1015]

Bro he scares me

[@Llmonty_]

Corny

[@hughmann9568]

Yeah the vast majority of the community doesn't fuck with his trash videos. 😂 so he had to change lanes.

[@zolelwavanqa6745]

@@hughmann9568 How do trash videos get you a million subscribers and hundreds of thousands of views?

[@MapLoLLLLLLLL]

2:20 In the top where Caulifla asks why Frieza is targeting Saiyans specifically, Frieza succinctly attributes his actions to prejudice. So I don't know what he's going on about. 😭

[@TSO_Sage]

yea he’s been pushing that agenda since the pivot and no matter how many times we debunk he keeps saying it 😂

[@orbboom6119]

Thats my goat frieza🗿🔥

[@PizzaPizza18]

​@@orbboom6119Bro what

[@thomasgibbons1935]

Bro xenophobia is just a synonym for racism lol

[@Subpar1O1]

​​@@thomasgibbons1935xenophobia IS just racism but everyone is your enemy instead of one particular race, after all

[@NamiNaoLe]

Carthu crazy in this 😭 didn’t know he had so much bite

[@BC21beats]

Hes always unhinged on streams 😂

[@NamiNaoLe]

@@BC21beats I only ever knew him from his KZbin videos 😭 he’s like a new person 😂

[@Xtremepoophead]

ONGGGGG LMFAOOOOOOOO🤣🤣🤣

[@orbboom6119]

Carthu based asf

[@genxvictor1805]

But no bark 😔

[@NotHighEnough1]

As much as I love TFS, they really had a hand in a lot of the generally accepted misinformation because their jokes were so good.

[@richborn6700]

TFS is hilarious but they most definitely did not help the Dumb Goku accusations. Then Super came out and doubled down on the slander. There are a genuine portion of this fandom who got on board through Abridged and have a skewed lens of the material because of it

[@JKMlive]

Yup people took TFS jokey takes way too seriously, especially towards the end when they started to have more serious moments. Its like some people look at it like another dub.

[@brachialtick6539]

​@@richborn6700but if they watched even dbza abridged they would notice goku isn't dumb even in that. Super did it way worse

[@HollowThePumpkin]

Bro i am not used to hearing carthu cussing 💀

[@Gamer_g.o.a.t.59]

I am 😔☠️🤷

[@dannyfenton9529]

Sounds like he’s not used to cussing. Dude sounds like a middle schooler who just got access to urban dictionary.

[@sleepy5120]

@@dannyfenton9529it might be due to being himself while recording. Imagine cursing infront of your parents for the first time, it’s akward due to the audience

[@sun_vfx]

@@sleepy5120 he always curses outside of his videos. hes a judge in powerscaling he talks like this all the time (i doubt anyone doesn’t curse?)

[@sleepy5120]

@@sun_vfx I wasn’t saying he doesn’t curse I was saying it might be different doing it on camera especially when your internet persona doesn’t normally

[@manmythandlord2371]

Carthu was cooking 😂 I didn’t expect him to come out blasting

[@yahjah3795]

Disrespected the first opinion he saw. Menace 💀

[@clixoer]

Fr ssj3 is cool in design but it doesn’t fit in the story

[@biohazardbin]

naw dawg he got trash takes too

[@Solgrem]

Unironically seeing Krillin instead of Batman in an alleyway would be more terrifying

[@kianschoeman6574]

Why would I be enemies with bro Unless his broke ass Boutta rob me

[@gamingmoyai3950]

@@kianschoeman6574POV: you drop a plastic cup on the ground.

[@DjPrimeVideos]

He caught you peeping at 18​@@kianschoeman6574

[@coffee9658]

Yeah his shiny ass head blinding

[@nycto4512]

I knew bro was cooked when he started off by saying goku having a clear character flaw = bad writing

[@Sami-sp1td]

Also when he started to describe super goku

[@adreeeandanothere510]

@@Sami-sp1tdyou lowkey lose the argument when you use super goku

[@GifMaker-n8r]

​@@adreeeandanothere510Anime Super Goku is actually dumb as hell while the Manga version isn't. Crazy how much they both differ

[@pagawn1640]

Carthu was having the life drained out of him with that Super Saiyan 3 take.

[@Plasmadolphin69]

His stamina was being drained

[@yoshidaaimi34]

Drained like the time Goku had on Earth after using Ssj3?

[@alexsmith3598]

Goten is Goku with an 800 credit score, summer home, and a present family. "If you're homeless, buy a home" type mf.

[@ignamaster-7557]

Bro they're constantly poor-midclass wdym Goku is a farmer and idk where chi chi works but that shit ain't getting 800 credit score 😭 Still right with the present family tho

[@krimsenly12]

@@ignamaster-7557but they lowkey broke

[@spade565]

Did y'all forget chi chi is royalty? She's the Ox kings daughter so I'm assuming she gets some type of cash

[@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569]

@@spade565ox king's castle burned down

[@estandolore]

​@@ignamaster-7557 Goku owns a MOUNTAIN

[@ssjsylver]

This video just confirmed that Carthu has black friends

[@Your_Father_LA]

How ??

[@mikeali2693]

@@Your_Father_LAwhat do you mean 😂

[@Your_Father_LA]

@@mikeali2693 I hate mfs that ask questions to simple questions like they fucking answered it. All y'all dummies do that shit when y'all be yapping

[@ssjsylver]

@@yourlovefeelslikeheaven same dif

[@teenvr8006]

@@yourlovefeelslikeheavenL take 😪

[@KxngKUDA]

19:12 Gotta remember: Piccolo is LITERALLY built different. His body doesnt need the same level of "rest" the other mortals do. He doesnt need sustenance like everyone else; just water. And most importantly: REGENERATION. His body reforms differently than the others, so i doubt that advice applies the same to Piccolo. Plus, most times he meditates and does image training, so he doesnt overexert himself

[@Lightning_Lance]

Piccolo's regeneration costs him stamina to use. That doesn't seem to be the case for Cell, maybe because of Frieza's or the Saiyan's genes in the mix as well. But regardless of how powerful Piccolo becomes in DBS, he still gets winded just regenerating an arm. (not that I disagree with the rest of what you said, just wanted to point out that I don't think the regeneration would help against overexertion)

[@logansaylor7460]

​@@Lightning_Lance I think that regenerating muscle fibers from breaking (which is how muscles grow bigger and stuff) is easy enough where he doesn't need to take a break. It's like welding cut wires compared to making a whole new wire to weld to an already existing wire

[@Anifinatic7Star]

Kinda hard to call a character like Goten underrated, mainly due to the lack of things to rate 💀Anytime he's on screen he's usually with Trunks or on the way to meet up with trunks, and they're usually doing the same activity with the same energy. I won't be fake and ignore the things from Goten we do see like how he has better Ki sense the Trunks and is, in some ways, more level headed. Like when trunks started freaking out about Zombies and Goten had to remind them that they have interacted with the dead multiple times. If we had more of that, there would be less to complain about. Now if we're talking about underutilization? I feel like a lot of people can agree there. All that said, big respect to the 5 Goten fans, and this was a fun video. 👍

[@salaga6574]

I didn’t know Cartu was gangsta like that😂. He was talking mad shit the entire video, more than Sage I feel like😂 Nah but Carthu’s a real one for sure, I still remember waiting for the next installation of “What if goku was sent to beerus’s planet”.

[@just_an_internet_explorer8038]

1:39:51 Lmao, the hilarious thing is, that girl didn’t even want to go with Goten. She asked Goten if he could get Trunks to ask her out since Goten and him are best friends. 💀

[@Capybarniaguyfr]

Calm down gt goten is the king of play

[@ssj3jaylen497]

Carhthu is the Kendrick of the db community

[@moneymachine224]

Gekdom

[@felixwilson2917]

@@moneymachine224geekdom was til he lied bout super coming back in 2021 lmao

[@yoridetth856]

Nah fr that shit killed it​@@felixwilson2917

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@moneymachine224 no, he’s the Drake

[@ZeroDividedByZero]

Is that good or bad?

[@19Butterman98]

Carthu calling Justin a FAN lmaoooo

[@jaytarver9979]

He a FAN he a FAN he a FAN

[@alatusedits]

It's true tho

[@shroomy64-001]

YO i aint know carthu was this petty 😭😭

[@Benji_Jokjo]

@@jaytarver9979NOT THAT FAN LOL

[@alatusedits]

@@shroomy64-001 a fan is a fan. Justin copies his thumbnails

[@wiz4873]

Bardock stops at SLIGHTLY less suppressed Frieza💀

[@Sandman10032]

Get Bardock passed transformed Zarbon 😭

[@SpookyMan-ih3fg]

@@Sandman10032 give em ssj

[@somethingthatisntcringe757]

Even Ssj Bardock stops at second form frieza lmao

[@Josugiri]

@@somethingthatisntcringe757 ?

[@extremelegendsupreme4596]

@@Sandman10032or cui for that matter 😂

[@SapleEX90]

Carthu in his videos: 😇 Carthu on stream: 😈

[@taecampus]

"I hate nice guy Bardock." Umm, to be fair he isnt that nice. He just got finished wiping out a planet of Namekians and Cerealians. And then just spares a female Cerealian, her child and an old Namekian. Then he was gonna leave, and essentially continue to conquer planets like before 😅

[@lololol924]

You're not wrong in the overall lore, but it's good to actually SHOW this stuff about your character given it's a central part of being a Saiyan at the time. It's clear Toei wants the perception of Bardock to lean more towards the "hero" side of the spectrum which is why they never show him doing evil shit.

[@Jerry-jo6dn]

@@lololol924Are you talking about Toei’s Bardock or Toriyama’s Bardock?

[@lololol924]

@@Jerry-jo6dn Toriyama's from DB minus, the one Toei considers "canon" currently.

[@Noneofwhat]

@@taecampus Still too good

[@taecampus]

@@lololol924 oh you mean like show him conquering planets and killing people after? But didn't they show Bardock as a Oozaru destroying Granolah's planet? The Oozaru had Bardock's scar While I HATE yo even bring it up, DB Minus did show Bardock killing other aliens before sending Goku off to earth 🌎

[@grandstasis1878]

The unbearably awkward ass silence after Carthu asks what Goten’s moment was, had me in fucking tears🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@Keetz_01]

47:28 the way carthu corrected him expeditiously and slamming that dumbass misconception and lie was so satisfying

[@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap]

carthu gets so toxic outside of his regular videos 🤣 W collab

[@Lightning_Lance]

On SSJ3: Goku didn't know it drained his power so much while alive, it was an actual improvement on SSJ2 in the afterlife where he learned it.

[@vali4634]

He did know that it drained his power while alive which is why he didn’t want to use it He just didn’t plan on coming back to life so he wouldn’t have any trouble with the form

[@Lightning_Lance]

@@vali4634 yeah that's also true, but also even then it drained him more than he expected against kid buu to the point where even when meditating to regain energy he was still draining faster than he could gather it back

[@Zts1436]

Nah no way ma boi Justin getting dissed by carthu

[@TSO_Sage]

eBeef !? 😂 sn

[@CertainlyCynical]

Carthu >>>>>>>>>> justin not even close

[@AlexSummary]

@@CertainlyCynical Chill out bro

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

Get Geekdom or Laughing Stock Media

[@KleinpeterHank]

1:00:10 Carthu brings up a great point about Goku sparing villains after King Piccolo. He left it out in Goku’s progression but he also spares big bald boi Nappa (well until Vegeta had other ideas). It also didn’t fully click with me but he brought it up that after Frieza till the end of the Buu Arc Goku goes back to sparing no one. Also shoutout at 46:25 “Yajirobe is bean daddy and without him a lot of characters would be cooked” 😂

[@alswisha8519]

I don't think breaking a mans spine is sparing

[@Zts1436]

A 2 hour sage vid wit carthu???? WERE HERE

[@spyd3y1]

Frieza doesn’t care for other species but his actual HATE is reserved for saiyans lol

[@elijahfyffe5176]

Earthlings get a bit of it but that’s just because they’re similar enough genetically.

[@KrAtOs-ze]

I love unhinged carthu just beating the shit out of everyone’s opinion

[@lordnul1708]

Last thing I'll say before things get spammy, Dragonball Evolution is the franchise equivalent to the Star Wars Holiday Special of 1978. just like how every bit of Star Wars that came after it was made so Lucas could forget the Holiday Special exists, so too was Battle of Gods (and everything after that) made so Toriyama could forget that Evolution exists. Literally, Toriyama flat out said he made Battle of Gods because he hated Evolution and didn't want DB Evolution to be the note that the franchise ended on.

[@zeldagameryt4018]

I know I’m late but I have a hot take of my own: Super Saiyan Blue should have been introduced in the Goku Black arc rather than U6 vs U7 or RoF. Think about it, when Goku learns Zamasu killed ChiChi and Goten after taking his body, Goku unveils Super Saiyan Blue by combining his God form with the anger of his Saiyan instincts (basically kind of like when Goku went super Saiyan against Frieza on Namek.)

[@jeancarloshernandez9863]

That would be perfect tbh we needed more or God in the anime instead of just overusing blue

[@zeldagameryt4018]

@@jeancarloshernandez9863 Especially since God was the first new canon transformation since SSJ3 all the way back in the 90s

[@jeancarloshernandez9863]

@@zeldagameryt4018 exactly

[@zeldagameryt4018]

@@jeancarloshernandez9863 Plus rewatching the scene where Zamasu tells Goku he killed ChiChi and Goten just reminded me so much of when Frieza killed Krillin

[@jeancarloshernandez9863]

@@zeldagameryt4018 And I feel like it would be a something that dragon ball super : superhero failed to do with gohan making an actual reference with super sayain nostalgia and pulling it off well

[@PyxlePawne]

Mostly just wanted to say that I never thought I’d actually be taking to Sage and Carthu and actually be on a livestream. As someone who likes both their content and is hyped for Carthu’s SS3 video, if you’re only watching one of ‘em you should watch both. So thanks to the both of them cuz I had a fun time👍 Side note, still actually gonna do the video (whenever it happens) the premise of it will probably probably involve the Buu Saga as whole since speaking about it through the lense of SS3, it’s hard to separate those two concepts. So I can’t just talk about the form like. Could with SS1 & 2… whenever I get to it (cuz life is life) Also sorry to anyone who thinks I either didn’t say enough or babbled like an idiot. Had a Gohan moment and realized my public speaking skills degraded (if my nerdy nervous voice wasn’t a give away). I am glad my take(?) made thumbnail I got “yo wtf is this take?!” status. If you thought it was funny and wanted to see it live, perhaps you *should’ve been in the stream* But yeah, thanks again to Sage. (Gonna leave some reformatted notes in the reply in case anyone actually cared to know what I was getting at without the stuttering😅)

[@PyxlePawne]

Remember these aren’t counterarguments, just a 7-point “notes version” clarifying what I was saying. It’s shorter spoken about a lot for a YT comment. Also not saying I got misinterpreted, shotgunned or anything like that. Sage and Carthu were good. 1 - My main point was just that SS3 was more subversive than the other two forms since it’s utilized differently as a plot device. Wasn’t trying to say it’s best form but that I don’t think it’s a “fall off” from the first two forms, hence the “arguably” in the take. Was hot take video so I went and stated in the most controversial way I could (and I do it again). 2 - Wasn’t saying SS3 is better foreshadowed or built better than the other 2 forms just not as “out of nowhere” as people might think and is essentially (representative of) the build up to the climax of Goku’s character arc. So as the form used differently than SS1 & 2 as a plot device it didn’t need foreshadowing. 3 - What I meant with the whole “SS2 & 3 don’t need to be forms” thing is that since transformations are typically visual story telling in DB, only Oozaru, SSJ and SSJ4 really “needed” to “be a form” or have an aesthetic change. Everything else could have just been a power up, rage boost, god ki or some mix of those, especially already having Grade 1, Grade 4 and the 100% full-power mode (and possibly the other Grade forms). 4 - I think the surprise with SSJ2 was Gohan being the one to have it as opposed to the surprise being that it existed (since it was clear to me going forward that Grade 4 was just a balanced version of the form and not the surpassing of it. 5 - I think the forms is technically “balanced” (same power for ki rate, just more extreme unlike Grade 2) intended for going all out and just winning like no one in the Buu Saga does until the end. (Yes I know I could talked about how “Dragon Fist!” showed that or made a “fusions never “win”” argument comparison, b it I wasn’t trying to go off the movies.) 6 - A form like Grade 4 is what happens when Goku has the right mentality before the form he needs where SSJ3 is when Goku has the form he needs before the mentality he needs for it. 7 - Goku was messing around in SSJ3 We learn something about SSJ3 each time it’s used. The first time is that it exist, it’s strong enough to fight an opponent everyone collectively supposedly wouldn’t beat (normally) about how draining it is. The second time is with Gotenks despite only being able to use it not feeling as exhausted with the form as Goku for some reason. The third time is with Gotenks staying a SS3 for the full 30 minutes and the fourth time being how that normally (the first time it’s used that way) SS3 doesn’t let you build up ki, recontextualizing the how Goku and Gotenks were literally and thematically over relying on their own power (that sustains their unnatural states) to supplement the form when they weren’t supposed to use SS3 that way. Super Buu did it right because he is literally the result of the power of others and thus thematically but only intrinsically and understands so he literally doesn’t overrely on the Fusion. (Didn’t mention (at least blatantly, at that specific point) that Goku literally admitted to fooling around in the form against Kid Buu like Gotenks did and tried charging up in it instead of powering down first but oh well.)

[@Dr.shallot1189]

Good effort on trying but at some point on stream it sounded like you were yapping

[@PyxlePawne]

@@Dr.shallot1189Yeah I was way too to tired and wasn’t at my A-game at all

[@jacobejackson183]

The main reason SSJ3 is my favorite form is just because of what it represents to me, that being Goku constantly one upping himself and breaking his limits. It has its problems for sure but that’s always stuck with me when I was younger (plus it looks dope as hell).

[@blacksaiyantrevor]

I see. I think the guy said that SSJ3 is the representation of the whole arc. Basically, you have enough tools to end something quick, but if you don't then there would be consequences. Basically, SSJ3 represented most things that happened in the arc. It wasnt a build up like the previous forms, but the contrary. It was introduced earlier to convey that. On top of that, SSJ3 on Gotenks further solidify that because of the fusion's time limit. Narratively, I think it was mid. But I do agree that it was a form of regression, which in some cases is not bad. I would love the idea that SSJ3 was actually an incomplete form and that Goku was NOT lying and wanted to save it for another time when it was mastered. When he fought buu, it was a gamble that he took. SSJ3 came out of nowhere, just like how the events of the buu saga came out of nowhere.

[@crowofjudgement4718]

Goku by his own admission said that he could've beaten Buu with said incomplete form

[@blacksaiyantrevor]

@crowofjudgement4718 could've, but didn't. Also, are you referring to kid buu or fat buu? Also it is incomplete for MULTIPLE reasons.

[@crowofjudgement4718]

@@blacksaiyantrevor Fat Buu. The time he said it was before he even fought kid buu and we all know how that panned out

[@blacksaiyantrevor]

@crowofjudgement4718 I see. So I am going to type a bit. Bare with me on this one. I think there is a misinterpretation. When I said gamble in my statement, I wasn't saying that he probably couldn't beat Buu. I meant that he didn't plan on beating buu because he wanted the future generation to become the new protectors. The whole act that he pulled with SSJ3 was to buy time, but SSJ3 burned through a lot of that 24-hour reserve that it is essentially a gamble. But to elaborate further, I was simply stating that just like how every action in this arc had a huge consequence, and that every time the arc could've ended but didn't due to the characters unsurprisingly extended the time, SSJ3 narratively is somewhat parallel to the arc in that it is a form that could've been utilized properly, but wasn't due to irresponsible decision making and it resulted in drained energy. It was the most powerful form only properly utilized by individuals under circumstances, within only 1-2 days. Yes, the arc was only a couple days at most. And to be fair, Goku never planned on using the form, which was obvious from multiple actions like wanting the kids to be the next protectors, or fighting Vegeta on a equal level to protect his pride(and because he didn't plan on buu being strong), or saving time to be with his friends and family. Simply, the form wasn't planned to be used, but the narrative forced Goku's hand.

[@najibosman6497]

You got to bring carthu back in these videos man, this was so entertaining

[@sheamy7172]

As a lifelong DragonBall fan, this was such a cathartic video. The Buu saga defense should be required watching. Even the ss3 point warms my heart as a goku fan.

[@Jerry-jo6dn]

It is crazy how people call DBS Bardock a nice guy. Even after saving Monaito and leaving the planet, he is back conquering planets again lol. I don’t know why people want every Saiyan to be a brainless brute.

[@SpeedPunch]

Toriyama

[@Comictale9001]

It’s apparently a stereotype.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

Bardock wasn’t a brainless brute in z either. He was just an asshole. Y’all are so dumb with these defenses.

[@Generalmituna8079]

People always say Super made Bardock “too nice” when he literally takes over planets and wipes out people for a living.

[@Graymanlegend]

Even if you’re only using the Broly movie then he’s literally the same besides not having future vision. Bardock even back then was considered “soft” for a saiyan.

[@Generalmituna8079]

@@Graymanlegend For real, it's like people forgot that even in Z, Bardock was pretty chill compared to Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz they only remember him going full on Rambo on the Frieza soldiers and act like that's his whole character.

[@suru7064]

The difference is between Super Bardock and Z Bardock. Super Bardock spares a random race of people, z Bardock wanted revenge for his team which in my opinion makes more sense.

[@NeenOrig]

EXACTLY BRO like Bardock was committing genocide for $7.25 an hour, but I guess his character sucks because he showed compassion a couple times? aight if that's how u wanna do it

[@stoveoven]

@@suru7064he doesn’t spare a “random race” of people… he wipes out said race and spares the only mother and child left because of his own family giving him some sort of sentimentality during that time. it actually makes sense when you take into account Gine’s behavior around him after Goku is born (being very family-centric, loving and nurturing). Granolah and his mother very likely reminded him of Gine and his own child giving him a newfound sense of empathy, hence his sudden change of heart compared to his Z counterpart where saiyans are usually confirmed as heartless people, so him growing that attached to his team and suddenly wanting to avenge them and at the same time disregarding his own son actually makes less sense.

[@65firered]

Carthu came in with black airforces

[@wizzymanjr8935]

Yk what's crazy dbz is pretty much a side character show

[@genxvictor1805]

Gohan show

[@thefallen2220]

True Goku at the end of Vegeta's battle was screwed up and everyone had to pretty much jump Vegeta

[@wizzymanjr8935]

@@thefallen2220 the buu saga is basically the only time he is around somewhat

[@lucas096br4]

??? Are we watching the same thing? This is more like my edp academia- My hero academia.

[@wizzymanjr8935]

@@lucas096br4 I don't think we are watching the same show

[@ghoztly7099]

Loten always be catching strays. Lmao.

[@Guyton1824]

Loten is crazy 😂

[@Generalmituna8079]

Deserved. Loten always relies on the goat Trunks for literally everything, he has never caught a single W in his life, a disappointment in the Goku bloodline.

[@MrYugioh123]

Can't believe that FRAUD is the son of my king Goatku

[@ZYaKnoe249]

@@Generalmituna8079you the Trunks that had to cheat to beat him? 😂

[@Generalmituna8079]

@@ZYaKnoe249 Cheat? Trunks set up an obvious trap and Goten fell for it. Not his fault he outsmarted him lol

[@Yakonsupremacy]

This is the equivalent of “thats not goku, thats kakarot” 💀💀💀

[@nivnavion]

Did Carthu say SSJ3 is an 800x multiplier? It’s 400x according to Daizenshuu. Not that deep regardless, honest mistake, and SSJ3 Bardock beating any version of Cell is just a laughable statement outside of heroes continuity .

[@omnisystem6030]

SSJ3 is just a 400x multiplier it’s nothing that special

[@jonkirby1880]

Even at 800x, Bardock's power level goes from 10k to 80 million. Full power Frieza is listed at 120 million, which gives him a bigger gap than Frieza to SSJ Goku's 150 million.

[@thefitnessgrampacertestisa8483]

@@jonkirby1880i mean tbf bardock’s power level is probably alot higher than 10k because of him vs gas but he still loses to cell low diff

[@cjayden04-87]

“MY SHOULDER” thats his moment 😂

[@BucketWasTakenTwice]

1:04:55 this is honestly what makes a great character/ personality. a character with flaws makes them not only more interesting but more relatable to the audience.

[@somethingrandom933]

The android 8 disrespect is crazy. Probably like the main dude who tells goku the morality of finshing off someone who is defenseless at that point vs sparing them in hopes that they will change

[@Bone_Daddy_Kenji]

Android 8 was not in the manga, so canonically he doesn't exist in the dragon ball universe.

[@tatsumakivee4201]

Carthus acting all innocent on his vids, but with sage he talks mad shit like Vegeta 😂

[@reicherwallace6774]

Goku in the Buu arc was like your Jagen in Fire Emblem. Literally there to make sure your fresh units can get EXP

[@delta9731]

With that piccolo and vegeta training thing, i feel like it’s cuz vegeta abuses zenkais so he benefits from hurting himself, and piccolo has regen

[@bluhmer1990]

The guy talking about Naruto and One Piece having better use of side characters is right but he had a poor argument. The reason Naruto and One Piece have better use of side characters is because Dragon Ball post-Namek saga had a major weakness, single villains. After Cell absorbed the androids that made him the single villain so side characters were then pointless. After Buu was released he was then the sole villain so side characters were useless again until Spirit Bomb time. Then Beerus was a single threat. Freiza came back with his army so at least there was that. Goku Black was mostly s single threat until Zamasu showed up. The tournaments were the saving graces. The point is that the single villain problem made it where side characters had nothing to do but provide side commentary.

[@ignamaster-7557]

Even if you're only talking about the bad guys, I respectfully disagree, because half (if not most) of the androids saga is about, well, the androids, presenting dr gero and his creations and even showing cell a little with his motivations, and then, at the end of the arc, its clear that he's the only villain remaining because his OBJECTIVE was to eliminate those side characters (besides 16) Now in the buu saga, I kinda agree, but I don't think buu being the only "strong villain" is a problem because it gave Toriyama much room to play with his innocence, giving another side character like Mr Satan (a practically BULLIED character in the previous arc) big development and even being CRUCIAL in the final fight, and thanks to that innocence and his power to absorb, buu was changing his personality and powers (besides super buu ones), being like a fresh start every time he transformed. Now with the super sagas... I really don't think the side villains are necessary yk? They're good on their own and even if you count the space criminals from moro You got a good bunch there and with the tournament

[@bluhmer1990]

@@ignamaster-7557 No disrespect, but I feel like you did not understand what my post was saying. I was saying that the single-villain format left the other characters without anything to do but provide side commentary. Why not have Gero or the other androids release a bunch of the "failed" models to spread the Z fighters thin and make it easier to get to Goku? Things like that could have been done to involve the side characters.

[@Lokisif34]

@@bluhmer1990 Up until perfect cell every character except for like yamcha/chaitzu gets a moment to do something. Piccolo fights both imperfect cell and android 17, vegeta comes in with a cold entrance killing off an android, than gets another moment with semi-perfect. Trunks has his introduction moment, than later against perfect cell even it's a demeaning moment. He's the one to start the plot and lead the z fighters to prepare against said androids. Tien gets his moment holding back semi-perfect until he dang near kills himself. Even krillin helps search and does try things like destructo disk, even if he does get shafted. He also has a pivotal role with the button that could blow up 18, and his entire storyline with 18, ending with the wish. The cell jr's also exist even if they kinda ragdoll the z fighters. In the buu saga, they have the beginning tournament, fighting babidi's goons in his lair, all of gotenks fight, Mr.Satan legitimately being the reason they win and showing off how fat buu has innocence and could be a force for good. Gohan training, and than getting mystic form, than negging super buu with mad levels of arrogance. Piccolo plays mentor for gotenks, comes up with the idea to trap super buu, and several ideas to stall him. Not to mentionNot gonna mention vegeta because during this arc he basically becomes the second protag. Like yeah they don't always get to fight, but they do contribute to the story in meaningful ways, and without some of their interventions everything would have been doomed. They don't always need goons to fight to be relevant. Consistently side characters get to make decision or come up with ideas vital to how the arc plays out.

[@Lokisif34]

@@bluhmer1990 The real answer is those shows give us emotional moments with said side characters. We get to learn way more on how they view the world just in general, not just in a fighting sense. How they perceive the characters around them, and the feelings they have about most things. The way their ever changing world, that our protag is usually working to change has affected them. (We do get some of those parts in Dragon Ball just to a lesser extent) However even that is subjective, because those stories tend to have those moments more just period, because they are structured differently as stories than dragon ball. Not to mention a lot of the DB side cast is infinitely more expanded upon if you watch og dragon ball.

[@edgysnarfbrownie5778]

I actually somewhat agree with the SSJ3 take. It definitely wasn’t executed well, but it has a lot of potential as a form. It giving an extremely massive yet required power boost just to stand a chance against an extremely powerful opponent at the cost of stamina burn is a cool concept. The fact that it directly goes against Goku’s philosophy when it comes to super sayin I feel like actually adds to it because Goku is sacrificing what he believes the right way to use the form in order to face such a monsterous threat like buu. I think it makes buu more intimidating and would give other characters time to shine when Goku does run out of stamina. That’s why I think the form was plagued by its execution and not by what it intrinsically is. Lmk if y’all agree.

[@Dark_flame_]

Gotens moment is when gohan tells goten to throw rocks at him and he Casually turn ssj and actually makes gohan struggle

[@thenewyorkhip-hopspot5485]

Sages face during the SSJ3 take is comedic gold

[@jadencedras6878]

I guess my main take away from the Goten discussion is that instead of gohan gotens character got hoed the most with Goku's reintroduction into the series cause at least gohan always has something to fall back on with goku and Vegeta returning Goten and subsequently trunks are kinda unnecessary at this point outside of literally just fusion

[@kaienglish271]

That take on Its just the “Goku show and Goku beats the main villain and side characters aren’t relevant” is such a bad take. When Goku is barely in the Saiyan saga , Namek and Cell saga. In the Buu Saga he’s literally taking the piss the whole time not doing anything. Funny thing is him comparing it to Bleach , Op and Naruto is crazy because the Strawhats currently DON’T DO SHIT BESIDES RUN AROUND , In shippuden if it isn’t filler the Konoha 11 don’t do shit besides Naruto , Saskue , Sakura and Shikamaru.

[@gra9]

The shit the guy describes db as is bleach does it to a way worse extent, i dont remember any other time when a main bad guy in bleach wasnt defeated by ichigo.

[@NasirGiwa]

HUGE CAP ON the strawhats luffy will not be where he is if not for his crew most of the time they definetily do more than just run around

[@kaienglish271]

@@NasirGiwa so lemme guess you didn’t see the word CURRENTLY. The last few arcs most of them do nothing but run around the island. The most current arc should be for the scientist on the show who’s been excited for this island but guess what he has ZERO relevance

[@NasirGiwa]

@kaienglish271 one arc out of how many where they are being useful is that a fair comparison

[@kaienglish271]

@@NasirGiwa when I say currently I mean for the most recent arcs they haven’t been doing anything Whole cake , Wano and Egghead a lot of them result to just running around.

[@MrMan2006]

The guy’s point that Goku is a worse mc than the Big 3 mc’s because Goku isn’t responsible is horrible. First off, why does a character’s level of responsibility dictate how well written they are? Main characters like Gon and Luffy are irresponsible but are still well written. Secondly, it’s BY DESIGN that Goku makes mistakes. In fact, one of the main points in the Cell Saga is highlighting the failures of the previous generation. They FAIL and make MISTAKES time and time again. Goku being irresponsible and not realizing the lack of Gohan’s desire for battle is by design and objectively makes his arc and character consistent with the story Toriyama was trying to tell. That in itself is what I would call good writing.

[@jonathangetachew5705]

Goten is mad underrated though, and they could easily bring him back for a second Tournament of Power. People saying Goten is too weak but that literally doesn’t matter. This is the same series where characters get radically stronger without much explanation just to be relevant when the time arises.

[@chunkysaurus785]

1:15:30 look at the comment about Squidward and Patrick 💀💀💀 I’m dead

[@Tiwad]

For the ssj3 bit, it definitely isn’t a top db transformation, but I think it deserves more credit than Carthu gives it. I think ssj3 did a good job in pushing the “passing the torch” narrative for Goku since it shows that, even though he has the power to get the job done, he doesn’t whip it out bc his own strength isn’t the answer he’s looking for ( I think the lack of foreshadowing also supports this idea). It also works as a safety net, so Goku is making a well thought out investment in the future rather than gambling the universe on kids with no plan b. As for the whole inefficiency thing, I don’t think that’s a reasonable argument because it isn’t like grade 2 or 3, where it’s not enough to beat the villain (cell). It was never supposed to replace ssj2 as the go to transformation, it simply was something Goku kept in his bag for when he doesn’t have any other option. Sure it’s not efficient, but still is viable to beat buu bc it doesn’t have any sort of speed drawback. All in all, ssj3 is still bottom 3 garbage (above rage and blue) in my opinion, but it’s a narratively coherent one. Personally, I think stacking kaioken onto ssj2 would’ve been good enough, narratively (idk if the power scaling stacks up or not) and then letting ssj3 be a gotenks exclusive since that bring more credibility to investing in the new generation because both gohan and the kids achieving strength that Goku didn’t

[@Jeff-fo3ck]

Carthu, Goku did not know about the side effects of ss3 because he was DEAD and with INFINITE stamina.

[@shotgunshogun4707]

In so glad to see sage being so involved with the dragon ball community on youtube. Good stuff man...I'd love to see a hot take video with the 3 idiots one day...yalls energy would for some banger discussions for sure.

[@CHEEZEBUTTERIvI]

Sage and Carthu gotta be one of the duos of all time.

[@Dizz.y._43]

Cathy and Sage on demon timing looking like might guy and rock Lee unhinged 😭😭😭😂🙏🏿

[@Progamer-cv1xl]

Hot take I think the reason beast and rage exist is because of the human dna in trunks and gohan (It's hard to defend rage😂)

[@conchadeconchos]

Coldest take I’ve read bro. Saiyans be getting mad too. Agree tho nothing can defend rage boost other than making a cool plot moment.

[@esfandyarshah6411]

I didn't know Carthu was chill like that

[@BaldOmniMan]

1:17:06 I see this interpretation, but you could also argue that Goku only used ssj3 because he had no choice. There’s inefficiency with the form, but it’s still a 4x increase over ssj2, and doesn’t seem the break you down as much as Kaioken, which Goku still uses in Super with no issue about its drawbacks. If I was Goku, I would have used it as well. Goku always talks about how shit ssj3 is as well. You mentioned that he never acknowledged it’s bad, but it’s both King Kai and Goku yelling about how it eats up energy/time on earth/is too new of a form respectively. I believe Goku brings up both things to Piccolo later as well. I don’t think this is the same as the grade 2/3 thing I think it’s more of a case of using it because he needed to. Robbing Peter to pay Paul when he only had a limited amount of time on earth anyway is actually pretty smart. That’s just in the capacity of Goku using it with his 24 hour time limit. Goku didn’t even know it actually drained a bunch of Ki in a normal fight until he fought Kid Buu. “This never happened to me before when I was dead, I guess we’re done for Vegeta” I do agree that it existing in of itself is dumb in that it makes a lot of scenes before it lose a lot of tension or meaning, but that bit about its efficiency can be interpreted differently from what you’re presenting.

[@kevo5133]

Yeah I think the fact that Ssj3 was a thing even though Goku was trying to end things “quickly” with Vegeta, and lying the whole time kinda sucked. It’s quite literally only because Toriyama just then thought of the form when it appeared. So of course that’ll cause issues. But yeah honestly everything after that I liked. I always figured that Ssj3 was just this crazy, ramped up Super Saiyan form that Goku kinda just messed around with as he was training in Otherworld, not something he genuinely thought was sufficient, but just Goku having fun testing his limits, experimenting, which led to Ssj3. He never truly realized how faulty it was until his fight with Kid Buu, only that it ate up energy prior, but then it was even worse and he couldn’t even charge ki properly with the form. With Majin Buu he knew he had to show off and buy time, with Kid Buu it was a gamble on ending things fast, which he _could_ have done. He just got unlucky and didn’t know how severe the drain would be in a living body. Both times I’d say he used the form the best he could, and ultimately never really advocated the form for being efficient, and mostly just went “yo check this out lol”, until he had to take a genuine risk with Kid Buu. I’d say it makes for an interesting form narratively, especially since it kinda promotes the “one big powerhouse isn’t cutting it, we need teamwork here”, but strictly ranking Ssj forms, it is pretty bad. Pretty cool though, and I think that’s all it needs to be 👌

[@DgSezn]

For one it takes really long to actually get into ss3 if your opponent is relatively as strong as you it’s guaranteed you’re losing in the long run Even grade 2 and 3 were a big power boost but Goku still didn’t want to use them and make a different form without the negatives

[@NasirGiwa]

CARTHU YEE COOK THEM GOTEN FRAUDS

[@lucidstudious750]

The reason vegeta is so hell bent on "finally" beating Goku is because in his head, that beam clash was the end of the fight. It was both saiyans at full power and he lost. Everything else past that goku wasnt at 100% which we know saiyans don't like

[@HenrythePaleoGuy]

Really great collab between you and Carthu. You dudes vibe very well together. :)

[@cancerianStargazer]

Carthu could say the n word and i wouldnt even blink hes invited to the cookout

[@kage1573]

I wouldn't say that Goku and Vegeta forgot there development in the Granolah arc but there focus was on other things like Goku not being confident in his strength or Vegeta focusing on the sins of the saiyans which Bardock's words helped to teach them which brings the themes full circle while still having a Bardock that was more focused on winning a fight instead of fighting for others and I also don't think the wish was ever made because of the context the story. I think the Granolah arc was great because of the story, characters, themes, and fights.

[@AjaxBlack]

Someone tell Carthu to relax

[@RichDXtreme247]

There’s like a weird pattern when it comes to the DB Community, it’s either they are “Powerscale-pilled” or “Side Characters is far more interesting than the MC.” Like, dawg. I think this is because of effects of different anime series clashing your experiences to Dragonball.

[@4givenofficial4]

THE NEW NARUTO UNHINGED EPISODE JUST DROPPED!!!! Who wants him to react to it??!!

[@WalcolmX]

I love being in this community fr and it’s refreshing to see sage constantly talk about us HIS COMMUNITY 🗣️ so proud even if we still dumb 🤣 get this goat to 200k ASAP 💯❤️‍🔥🗣️

[@katorro]

I’m lucky you upload late at night. I work night shift and and so I love getting to work and being able to put on your new video while I get my work done

[@baddragonite]

I thought of a moment that could count for Goten, he's the youngest character to ever go Super Saiyan, and did it casually at that young age

[@BobbyMoore2-mp8wb]

In the Dragonball Z season three finale the reason why Vegeta went to space because he was looking for Goku to learn how to become a Super Saiyan

[@srx2106]

Gotens moment so far in whatever limited screen time he has is that he's the youngest super saiyan and he has insane potential but it will never be seen cause we already have the big characters around

[@ray0064]

Sage I got into a an argument with some friends about who’s over who all time as a champion, Roman Reigns or Brock Lesnar? I was getting flamed for saying Roman, were they right to? Love your videos, keep working 🙏

[@lordnul1708]

Movie and then anime, if they ever adapt the manga exclusive stuff. We already got debates about which version of Battle of Gods is the best depiction (same with Resurrection F, though in that movie's case it's more about which version is the worst).

[@Warlord-dc5un]

28:08 You can make the same argument for Krillin in the saiyan and namek saga. Krillin takes out 5 saibamen and nearly kills Nappa, Krillin nearly chops Frieza in half. The reason Tien is seemingly more a rival is because OG dragonball he very much was a serious rival. As a result it's more so Tiens design and personality is the reason he's seen more as a rival because he was. Krillin was more a playful friendly rivalry with your best friend Krillin doesn't have that typical rival personality and his design isn't supposed to be cool or as intimidating. That's more so the reason than the actual feats since the two humans actually have equally both had big moments. It isn't about the feats like the holding off semi cell or nearly killing Nappa because the two honestly aren't that far off, it's just about the vibe. Krillin was made in mind of Goku's best friend while Tien was created to be a rival in the story until Goku got bigger rivals that filled the spot better such as Piccolo and Vegeta.

[@user-gk6nt5gi5n]

No it's the fact tien was always stated as stronger even in the the saiyan arc. He was also thr only one that trained all the time and had the desire of catching up to them

[@Blakkberry7]

Okay but the idea that Vegeta could’ve been using SSJ Rage when fighting Beerus on Earth would’ve been such a dope idea

[@yoursteak5215]

I always knew Carthu was invited to the cookout

[@VincentDoesntSmoke]

I started watching carthu videos more recently and was really enjoying it overall. Then I find this and he skyrockets upwards, my man is cooking these people and bringing facts to fuck them up.

[@Jeff-fo3ck]

I can't agree with carthu regarding nice bardock. Gine was the one who rubbed off on him and goku was just the final push. It's not like bardock got nice overnight. It's a man experiencing life and changed according to those experiences overtime.

[@user-gk6nt5gi5n]

Still don't like him plus that isn't even shown to be the case ever. The only reason bardock did anything originally was revenge, he didn't have a good side nor was he special

[@Jeff-fo3ck]

@@user-gk6nt5gi5n no, this was foreshadowed in Dragon ball minus(canon btw) where Bardock literally told gine that she being a pacifist or having a gentle personality is rubbing off on him. Edit: then goku being born is what pushed him to be nicer as he stated "he wanted to protect something for once"

[@Jeff-fo3ck]

@@user-gk6nt5gi5n by "originally" you mean the non canon anime special?

[@bloopjenkins3188]

Cant wait to see that rivalry develop 😂

[@jobsatwendys660]

In the manga kale is called the lssj so and boly Basically has the same form

[@Adam-wz3zr]

Facts on the take with ssj blue being introduced during the hit battle instead of frieza i think that would've also show how far goku has come and just imagine the reaction people would get if vegeta pulled with red on frieza suprising everyone.

[@kingcedman7762]

Carthu is making me a SSJ3 hater and I respect it.

[@TheSuperGoober]

Don't listen to his propaganda man, lmao. Ssj3 is a good form. Idk what they be talkin about, the form is fine in the Buu saga, the characters were just trash at using it and constantly made mistakes. And it's stamina issues can be fixed with a tail anyways...

[@philswift8793]

The idea that it's character regression is also a massive reach.

[@genxvictor1805]

Literally bro​@@philswift8793

[@chuviis3508]

​@@TheSuperGoober the tail thing is an exclusive thing from GT and it still became more fodder than it was in z bruh

[@thedevilsleutice]

@@chuviis3508exactly baby crapped on that.

[@jacksonwhitaker8000]

Dude, I love both of yalls content so see yall team up to roast us made it even funnier

[@totallyanonymous3010]

I think what the first guy meant when he was talking about Frieza not being “racist” is because he’s technically not from the same race as them, he’s an entirely different species

[@uigoku_i]

So are you trying to say " If someone is from another race then he cannot be racist. "

[@Golden_Frieza0912]

@@uigoku_ifrom another species not race

[@tfx9223]

@@uigoku_ithey were saying “if you’re from another species, then you’re not racist, you’re xenophobic”

[@RevulsiveLooper]

​@tfx9223 even better, he'd be speciesist

[@teddy_0872]

God I literally rolled my eyes to the back of my head as soon as I heard "Dragon Ball is worse than the big 3"🙄🙄🙄

[@gamerthings2559]

Carthu speaking like he’s on drugs or something, idk. He sounds weird in this one.

[@Generalmituna8079]

Bro sounds like he's hooked on the green.

[@dumbly-stupid]

​@@Generalmituna8079 that namekian grass

[@rroca9140]

Bro pulled up with the black slang to talk to a brotha 😂😂

[@Hollow_Vex]

I just think he's letting lose for the debates

[@gamerthings2559]

@@Hollow_Vex Pff, if that’s so, then he needs to do that more often on his channel.

[@bitviper3430]

Honestly Goten’s moment will have to be him charging in after seeing someone die and actually winning. Like how he tried charging at Buu after chi chi died

[@legendaryyetunknown6973]

That guy at 40:56 has not watched Dragon ball there is no way, HE SAID NO SIDE CHARACTER WAS RELEVANT TILL DRAGON BALL SUPER HERO, Plus the fact he complaining Goku gets a powerup and beats a villain, IN ALL THE BIG THREE THAT HAPPENS consistently

[@razkable]

I think he watches too much big 3 anime filler and movies lol....dragonball is about fighting so their relevance comes down to power and helping not beating the big bad...and also he said the end of the boo saga is about goku becoming the strong guy to save the world but it ends with oob that goku wished for to succeed him before super gt so oops nope...wrong again....

[@LordMichaelHimself]

Damn seeing Carthus in a different light. He's definitely in the "Piccolo" group