Debunking Your Dragon Ball Takes w/

[@justinsden]

I had a lot of fun doing this! We gotta collab again sometime soon 🔥 (I came here to triple down as well…SSB and SSR SUCK)

[@NobamaDroneStrike]

ssr was alright and ssb was overused

[@angelodugarte9649]

I like SSB is a good decent transformation(in the manga)

[@gregkareem9824]

Why does ssb get so much hated? Not deserved

[@frankluis4653]

Trunks lost everything , he watchd his mom die, along with getting zenkia boost from fighting black why is it so harf to believe he deserved this. Ssj2 vageta got good hits off beerus and nobody bats an eye at that.

[@mastergod101]

I agree with your hot take, ssb is so trash

[@sonicthomasgamer]

Bardock: I wish for my sons to thrive Future Goku: 🫥

[@thedoglovinggamer5825]

The wish seemingly stopped once they turned into adults. Also he wished for them to thrive.

[@jantheking7028]

We dont even know if the wish was actually made

[@sonicthomasgamer]

@@thedoglovinggamer5825 true

[@IIIISai]

Cringe wish

[@RandomName-xx9ls]

Technically he did thrive, he lived past the sayian extinction, became the most skilled being in the universe (according to manga king Kai) and had a wife and child. Raditz however didn’t thrive much past the extinction event but still lived for a long time none the less.

[@Anti-AntiAintI]

Blue and Red SSJ were invented not thinking Dragon Ball was gonna blow up again.

[@iankendall8467]

Red was. Blue was just confirmation.

[@richborn6700]

Blue was just Dragonball wanting to rerelease tons of toys and merch with a color change on the hair so they can sell it all like new again

[@Anti-AntiAintI]

​@@richborn6700 That's every form bro.

[@Anti-AntiAintI]

​@@iankendall8467Right. They did RoF and Blue to make sure BoG wasn't just a fluke.

[@marckie1092]

Hi Sage. At 2:08. Thanks for taking the time to read my message. Just wanted to clear some things up on my end that I feel I didnt do a good job in explaining, twitter has a character limit and I didn't want to spam things with three four five tweets. When I said built in lore I meant the lore of the "Legendary Super Saiyan" itself. In the original anime. The super saiyan was told as a "form that gave a saiyan limitless power, So much so that his rage along with his power continually increases to the point that it literally explodes with him from within." To show that paticular form was accurate and that the one Vegeta, Goku and the others were a sorta offshoot of the one true legendary super saiyan of was cool. (non cannon i know).

[@marckie1092]

Also when I said better personality. I believe the LSSJ movie was really great at potraying Broly (when he transformed) as a type of true saiyan. One that loves the battle and fight and will immediately destroy anyone thats bored him. I personally feel that in any other media saiyan are either portrayed as an evil conquering empire or someone trying to takeover the world. Which doesn't really sell the "warrior race that loves power and fighting" (Outside of Goku and Vegeta of course). I hope I cleared my point a slight bit (and sorry for these long messages I know its alot I wrote).

[@IIIISai]

@@marckie1092 dbz fandom hates Z broly its illegal to disagree since they aint watch the show, also dont be apologizing in debates, online atleast 🤓🤝

[@lordkai59]

​@@marckie1092 disagree and I'll Elaborate. In the sub version of the movie, that's how he's potrayed and i like it but it's still vague on why he dislikes goku. You also got to remember, the evil saiyans took over the good ones meaning even then, there weren't many saiyans that were good or ones that didn't like conflict. Gine and broly examples of those. Super broly has the better character because he's learning about the world around him. He's learning how to be a better fighter and learning how to control a saiyans key power....anger. As for dialouge, both speak like fucking cavemen. But now in the super manga, he's got way better dialouge. Z broly is a better antagonist because the 2018 movie isn't about broly BEING an antagonist, it's literally the story of broly.

[@shrigga3696]

@@lordkai59ngl him as a antagonist had a cooler more menacing aura, now bro’s just a dumbass who lived in the wilderness his whole life

[@marckie1092]

@@lordkai59 I strongly disagree with the better character aspect. Unless you are talking about in the manga. Which I have purposefully avoided so I dont know whats expanded upon or not. But in the movie he doesn't have much, if any personality. Which to me was the point. They made him a clean slate (sightly animalistic) whos supposed to eventually grow and learn in future installments and arcs. Whilst in the Z movie. He goes from reserved and timid to psychotic rage to a taunting sadistic saiyan. Thats constantly disgusted by anyone weaker than him and loves watching people fight him in vain. I dont agree that both speak like caveman. I think you can maybe say that in the beginning of the Z movie but I say its moreso he doesnt say much. And Broly is supposed to be an antagonist in both movies. Its just he shines alot more in the actual fight of the Z movie vs in the Super movie he literally doesn't speak a line after the battle begins.

[@notkingcedman7762]

We need this collab again I had so much fun watching it live.

[@Gweezy12]

Broly got some menacing lines. OG broly loved to talk that shit. Kakarot how much do you love your son? A little green bug has come to get squashed. If you let me kill you all before you wouldn't be dealing with this pain. Oh look the little slaves decided to be brave, I know you look up at the sky at your little oh planet dreaming you can go back there on day *POWERS UP A KI BLAST*.... ITS ONLY JUST A DREAM!!!!!

[@salaga6574]

Yea, I don’t know where people got the idea that broly only says kakarot, it’s one of those things where dragon ball fans once again just go off the memes without actually looking at the main material. If we talking in their rage forms, Z broly is actually a much more interesting character, if we’re talking base forms, then yea, I’d give it to Super broly. I just don’t like how they completely brushed off that take and act like it’s a complete landslide when it really isn’t.

[@imedd3191]

@@salaga6574 because in second coming thats all broly says

[@GeorgeWashingtonToad]

@@salaga6574 it started with second coming massacring Broly’s character then tfs made a joke about how he devolved to only saying kakarot in the abridged Broly movie which made people who didn’t watch the original movie think he only said kakarot

[@StevenJones851]

i really wish they didn't ruin Broly in the 2nd Movie

[@yeetnessthegreater1298]

Meanwhile Dbs Broly talks like Tarzan and screams.

[@jg5004]

At this point, I think that saying, “X side characters need more screen time” or that, “the series should focus more on the next generation of characters” is just a pretentious talking point.

[@yarc9]

Goku sucks cause he dumb dragon ball should focus on a much smarter character

[@lordkai59]

​@@yarc9......what

[@StevenJones851]

Side Characters should atleast have more relevancy

[@Noneofwhat]

Like the people saying "I miss Launch, do something with Launch!" Like... Who tf even cares? It's been several decades since that character was even relevant. And when she was relevant, she had just one gag that would have gotten dry had she stayed around. You already know what happens when you tell the same joke over and over again... Or she would just get videl'd and have her personality revolve around just being a house wife to pop out some saiyan's baby left n right.

[@clasyykaz6190]

@@yarc9 never cook again bro

[@thedoglovinggamer5825]

Fun fact: Despite the fact people say he hates Goku due to the crying he actually doesn’t, in the Japanese Dub of the Z Broly movie Paragus explained that Broly actually sensed Goku’s power when he first arrived on the trap planet/New Planet Vegeta and that caused his saiyan instincts to go out of control which made him see Goku as a powerful opponent he wanted to fight and kill, the crying had nothing to do with it. Also in the JP dub he only knows Goku’s saiyan name because Vegeta said it right in front of Broly. Broly also only starts remembering Goku right when he is defeated. Also you should react to the previous manga arcs like the black saga, they are extremely different from the anime, and the bonus chapters give a lot of lore!

[@TheSuperGoober]

Wait......really-! Oml...we need to spread the Z Broly gospel, PREACH

[@thedoglovinggamer5825]

@@TheSuperGoober I have been doing it for months.

[@castform7]

I mean no matter what, I feel like Goku playing a part in the Broly storyline is a misstep that Super rectified. Their anger and initial confrontation should be Vegeta imo.

[@IIIISai]

@@TheSuperGoober lol

[@IIIISai]

@@castform7 super broly wearing a moldy cloth

[@rd1890]

I hope to see more of this, I LOVE THIS COLLAB SOO FREAKING MUCH

[@BraydenG-u9r]

The ultimate collab

[@defensordeatena8144]

Alright, when it comes to SSB take I truly think all the bad PR SSB gets comes mostly from the anime, because in my opinion, SSB, if we include the manga, is a top 5 transformation. The reason I say this is that SSB in the manga consistently feels powerful and has been the most relevant form throughout all of Dragon Ball tbh. SSB in the manga also gets to be explored and mastered it, giving the form flaws in the beginning and making Goku and Vegeta have to find always around the flaws of the form until they master it feels like a power progressing to a form that we have only seen with SSJ and UI. In the most recent arc SSB consistely is still able to fight opponents that are UI and UE levels of course it is weaker, but it forces both goku and vegeta to outsmart their opponents, the most recent example would be Goku fighting Gas in the teleportation battle. There is also the "Blue always loses". In the Manga, SSB has beaten (Hit, Goku Black Vegeta forces Goku Black to fuse with Zamasu, Otherwise, he dies. It stalemated a Fused, Zamasu, and almost won with Hakai, In the T.O.P, it was used consistently Vs Top Tiers, and in the Moro and Granolah was still consistently used even with new forms taking over). I know this is a HOT TAKE, but SSB gets too much bad PR, mostly because of the anime.

[@IIIISai]

The anime ruined all perception, i only first read the manga recently better im every way, tho gokus still an idiot

[@StevenJones851]

​@@IIIISaiToriyama unfortunately had to ruin Goku Character before his passing

[@StevenJones851]

The Anime Version Ruined Super Saiyan Blue while the Manga Version did it much better

[@arachno142]

I heavily agree with this. Also blue is consistently shown to be a good deal stronger than God. Even in Super Broly. And the Super anime had some great moments with blue. Like goku turning ssb against yoooo and the gods being shocked. Or zamasu realizing g a mortal held the power of gods

[@StevenJones851]

@@arachno142 Blue was ok in the Anime but overused to much the Manga did it better

[@Stormm_YT]

Granolah arc was ass when it was month to month but it was such a delight to read all at once. If you hate it currently go binge read it and it will be so much better

[@jantheking7028]

Even month to month it was peak. It only got bad month to month during that one time period where Gas was introduced because it was just fight after fight until the bardock flashback happened. When you binge that part, its actually heat when we aren't waiting months for just straight action

[@IIIISai]

Fax, but na granolah sparring made the arc pointless

[@richborn6700]

Granolah was almost all fights no story. It was the manga version of a 90s Z movie. It was ass

[@Anifinatic7Star]

The thing that gets me about launch is that she went from basically Goku's (and Krillin's) stand in mother figure/ older sister, to an occasional background cameo.

[@GeorgeWashingtonToad]

Z Broly didn’t just say Kakarot in the first one

[@lightgivemepower6425]

2:25 This just goes to show you that Broly Second Coming really ruined the perception alot of people have about Broly. Broly had actual Dialouge in the First movie only to be butchered in the second 2nd movie. You'd be amazed on how much many people be surprised when they watch the 1st Broly Movie and are shocked to hear Broly actually speaking other than saying Kakorot

[@marioblaze2723]

Apparently the reason Z Broly hates Goku so much is not because of his cry but because his cry and Goku reminded him of the same night were King Vegeta tried to kill him

[@IIIISai]

Comgrats for basic reading, db fans cant

[@marioblaze2723]

@@IIIISai Well now let's try to convince that M8 Broly didn't actually destroy a Galaxy and that he gets smoked by Perfect Cell and Dabura

[@IIIISai]

@@marioblaze2723 he destroyed one tho, in base too, besides dabura is brain fried,and cells cockyness will lead to his defeat

[@marioblaze2723]

@@IIIISai Yeah but that's Is in the dub version In the original It said that he brought destruction trough the Galaxy not that It destroyed It wasn't even needed an Ssj2 to beat him just some Super Saiyan grade 4 with the energy of some half dead z fightiers and c'mon Dabura Is not that dumb plus when things get serious Cell doesn't play around

[@IIIISai]

@@marioblaze2723 it sounds cringy but the dbz plot sharing energy is a better boost than a form, its overkill, ssj1 goku from that movie would molest ssj2 buu saga goku, the scaling for movies is just naturally higher, remember in an older movie aka cooler..was stated base goku killed freiza LOL, bro these movies be cracked 🤣🤣, but even if you think im crazy fine, but dabura is genuinly 0 iq even Buu saga gohan tricked him, and this dude got finessed by fat buu, cell is so cocky and panicked vs a crybaby teen gohan, he shoulda just ran away but didnt because he isnt smart, all he had to do was destroy the planet like frieza and gg ya know

[@TheSuperGoober]

The only reason Ssj3 didnt do anything was because they were trash at what to do, not that the form itself was bad

[@nobackground8854]

We need that transformation tier list asap.

[@9raff]

I'm sorry but it's always gonna be the Namek/Frieza Saga. Y'all gotta stop lying to yourselves.

[@IIIISai]

W

[@iankendall8467]

My hot take is that if you switch frieza arc with U6 tournament it would make a lot more sense. Use the tournament to reveal Vegeta with Red. Make Goku unveil Blue. Then you go to the frieza arc and unveil Vegeta getting blue.

[@IIIISai]

That makes sense,

[@ac2raw]

Yessir been waiting for this one i gotta stop missing the lives

[@DrBacalex]

1:55 Guys, I know its an old video, but Launch is the REASON WHY ROSHI TRAINED GOKU. We been knowing her story and her relevance

[@jonah_jo]

Fun Fact: At a Q&A Panel (I don’t remember which one) a fan asked Akira Toryama why he included the character “Launch” in “Dragonball”, but left her out of “Dragonball Z”. Toryama’s response to this question was: “I forgot about Launch.” So it’s now canonical that Akira Toryama *forgot about Launch* so she vanished from the character roster.

[@Warlord-dc5un]

Z Broly crashed out at a baby crying over the dude that stabbed him and left him for *DEAD* Nah you can't make that shit up

[@taecampus]

This was fun to watch. Very entertaining 👏 I fully agree with Oracle though. I would like to see multiple other arcs before we tackle the Black Freeza Saga. My mates and i always discussed this 😅 -Have Goku start his training with Uub like in End of Z!... Just dont let him bail for like many years like before. That was an odd choice. Have it be on and off 😅 -Have Vegeta, Broly, Goten and Trunks go to Planet Sadala! Whether its to keep his promise to Cabba, or maybe the U6 Saiyans need help with a massive threat. Have Cabba contact Vados, to contact Whis to tell Vegeta. - As for Piccolo, Gohan and even Pan(..... or Krillin 😅), maybe have them help Jaco ans Merus with a Galactic Patrol mission or something. Merus should be able to tell how strong both Piccolo and Gohan are now. Or, maybe do something with the Namekians. We now know that the Namekians actually come from different universes, and they have lore of the OG Ssj God i think. Plus, they've modeled their dragonballs off the creator of the super dragonballs set. Theres gotta be some massive lore with that 😅 I also would mind a mini Saga, seeing Freeza seek out strong individuals to join his army. To eventually take on the Z Warriors

[@emannuelsepulveda7259]

Ssb might suck, but if presentation matters, then it should rank higher simply due to the broly movie. The form might not do much, but damn that transformation scene against broly was one of the best ever

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

4:24 I would also like to point out it is kind of a theory that Goku attempted to use Perfected UI before going blue, but was unable to. So the transformation literally just refused to activate from how badly he got stomped.

[@richborn6700]

I took that as he was about to pass out and activate UI, but piccolo messaged him and basically snapped him outta his trance

[@colinmaze2105]

the english dub does z broly dirty, in the og Japanese dub paragus says that broly's saiyan instincts were going wild from sensing goku's power. i haven't seen the legendary super saiyan in a while, but I remember him being rather entertaining, second coming is a sad cash grab, and bio broly sucks in every way. Love the vid, we need more of this content

[@PoketronPokey404]

2:38 We’ll actually pikachu spoke words in the I choose you movie 18:49 I assumed the wish activated when demon king piccolo stopped Goku’s heart and left

[@zzzzzdagod8973]

hearing justin talking in his non-script voice and saying “in the face” 100x i actually enjoyed this

[@twill4084]

Best video since Goku Analysis felt like Spider-Man & Doctor Strange teaming up in that movie, W guest, who doesn’t love ppl who can READ talk about Dragon Ball

[@hmmmmname]

The only disagreement I have with the SSB having no good moments discussion is the end of the Goku Black arc when Goku goes Perfected Blue, I actually REALLY enjoyed that and it only worked because it was Blue, though I agree that overall it's the worst transformation aside from Rage and 3 (3 might as well not exist, and Rage shouldn't exist).

[@IIIISai]

Anime we talking about

[@naikeygaming872]

"Goten and trunks needs more screentime" - *looks at boruto*

[@Jjk58174]

Z Broly had more to say than "Kakarot!" Goku: "How about a handicap?" Z Broly: "Is that another word for coffin?" I like both, so when I hear the limited dialogue take for Z Broly, it is obvious that the one making that statement did not watch the first Broly movie.

[@Luffytoro123]

I forgot this was before the z broly rewatch, I was so confused when he was talking about the z broly vs super broly hot take😂

[@marlinmurrell620]

9:22 Bro, this is so true. My personal favorite anime is Fairy Tail, but I'm willing to point out its flaws.

[@richborn6700]

Super Broly is basically fuckin Saiyan Tarzan

[@EdgardoJCruz-dk5kv]

SSB actually has multiple canonical wins while SSJ3 while looking cool upon first unveiling lost every fight. While the only "win" SSJ3 has is against Future Trunks in a sparring match. In the anime. In the manga Goku had to use SSG for a split second to win.

[@IIIISai]

Its not wins but aura

[@josecriollo6976]

I can count with my hands the amount of times SSJ2 was used

[@thatngafr]

super saiyan blue has literally ONE win in the anime in it was against frieza and super saiyan 3 is only good in movies

[@randomrave6635]

4:15 my glorious goat sage.... z broly was turning gokus liver into a trampoline 😭

[@JustBlout]

A point I could add to the sadalla arc (idk how to spell it) is they might go to recruit sayians to help since frieza might be training his army in the 10 year time chamber and they want some sayians like caulifa, kale, and cabba to help in the fight

[@Chckster]

8:55 good take. He’s not saying DB is bad, he’s saying it inspiring other anime’s does not make it good

[@NinjaAimless]

People forget How Much Of A Absolute Menace Vegeta was in the Saiyan Saga. Go back and look at what it took to best him😁, dude set the tone for op villains he knew he was powerful just it blew his head outta proportion and it hurt him in the long run.

[@user-ou5ls2xc7v]

Even though I hate the Bardock wish, cuz as Justin said, it doesn’t reflect well on their history (and doesn’t seem to have a purpose either,) I like that the only caveat to Raditz and Goku’s protection is them running into each other. They wind up dying right after they make contact.

[@toomberrebmoot9244]

I mean, Z Broly has some menacing dialogue IN HIS FIRST MOVIE. After that, he devolves into screaming “Kakarot” and then turns into a goop monster in Bio Broly😂.

[@spyopz]

The anime cooks, but the manga be cheffing

[@LilKingKeith]

Letss goo I been waitin 👀 also wasgood, new to the channel and I’m enjoying it already

[@jg5004]

SSB is over hated. In the anime it was achieved by Goku and Vegeta at the same time showing that if they trained together they could surpass god powerZ

[@ThyUseless]

My favorite part of the Android saga not counting any cell was Piccolo vs 17 it was a top 3 non-saiyan related fight in the series in my opinion

[@projectx4440]

my hot take is that i think that freiza should be aiming to be the god of destruction

[@clasyykaz6190]

The worst part about SSB was that it was rushed but other than that I think the form looks dope, the aura is dope, and it did take few dubs although with the help of Kaioken. Hey you can't lie SSBKK looks dope as hell animated.

[@_WiZ420]

I'm actually going to defend Z Broly to say that he definitely has a lot of personality... however, I do NOT think he has more than Super. Thing is, the original Japanese dub had a lot more devilish dialogue from him, really giving off the vibe that he was evil in a way like Freeza was. He had downright conniving statements. But regardless, I don't think it encapsulates a better character at all. He's a tool to his own power, where as Super Broly learns to control his state of mind by watching Goku's son box. EDIT: Also, you have Z Broly starting off in LSSJ and taking on several Super Saiyans, but Super Broly was curbstomping a Super Saiyan God Goku even before his yellow hair, let alone green.

[@TSO_Sage]

we watching broly rn

[@Vegetto-k5n]

@@TSO_Sageokay

[@richborn6700]

If Broly gonna show up so late in Super, OF COURSE he gonna be stupid strong outta nowhere to keep up. If Brolys first movie came out around the Buu Saga he'd have likely packed up all the Saiyans in SSJ 2 or SSJ3 Goku. The villains are only as strong as the story allows at the time

[@_WiZ420]

@@richborn6700 That doesn't matter at all, straight up. I'm not interested in using a "Well it had to be written like this" narrative, that's so hindsight-based it's a little sickening. No, you're missing my point. When originally watching Z Broly vs Super Broly, I'm more impressed by Super's chain of events, because inherently, Super Saiyan itself is already confirmed to be not all that strong by the Android saga. Super Saiyan God was already humbled, but contextually far surpasses Super Saiyan. Z Broly losing to a powered up Super Saiyan really defeats the whole idea of him being "Legendary", but a fusion of two Saiyans with godly ki seems a lot more reasonable. Z Broly could have NEVER been as strong as Super, and if that's a hot take, I'm surprised. He was a ticking time bomb of energy, and he was losing control.

[@Mr.SuperPerfectCell]

Ok I get the Z Broly Kakarot memes but that was only in second coming the first movie he actually said some cold stuff like "Kakarot how much do you love your son?" "Monster no I'm the devil" "I'll rip you limb from limb" I think Z Broly is ruined by his sequels. They didn't even provide a lot of Backstory in the first movie they just added it in.

[@thedoglovinggamer5825]

Fun fact: Despite the fact people say he hates Goku due to the crying he actually doesn’t, in the Japanese Dub of the Z Broly movie Paragus explained that Broly actually sensed Goku’s power when he first arrived on the trap planet/New Planet Vegeta and that caused his saiyan instincts to go out of control which made him see Goku as a powerful opponent he wanted to fight and kill, the crying had nothing to do with it. Also in the JP dub he only knows Goku’s saiyan name because Vegeta said it right in front of Broly. Broly also only starts remembering Goku right when he is defeated.

[@Mr.SuperPerfectCell]

@@thedoglovinggamer5825 Exactly Z Broly is misunderstood in a lot of ways.

[@Xis_sa]

@@Mr.SuperPerfectCellexactly this is what I’m tryna say but people will be like “all he does is say kakarot”. “His backstory sucks”🤓🤓

[@Mr.SuperPerfectCell]

@@Xis_sa Yeah it's upsetting honestly. But what are you gonna do when dragon ball fans don't read right?

[@salaga6574]

@@thedoglovinggamer5825Preach my boy, is things like this that just make it really off putting that Sage pretty much spat in the face of people who told him to react to the movie’s subbed, I’m ngl, I want to watch them dubbed as well, but when the entire point of these videos is to give your own “right” takes and genuine critiques on the writing of dragon ball, but you’re not willing to get the facts straight, it’s makes you sound hella ignorant ngl.

[@omarpro1495]

18:50 Gine is the point, gine made bardock care about his kids so when he got the chance to wish for something he wished for his children to thrive And "thrive" means that theylll grow well and both of them did. And the wish effect ended when they both died cause that was after they both grown up already You just need to know reviving goku and anything after that has snything to do with the wish. when goku died he wasnt even suppsoed to be revived but that was done by another wish with the dragon balls goku was supposed to die his first death with raditz since both of them has already grown up well. But then z fighters revived goku and thats a secondary thing has nothing to do with bardock wish since it was already done ( goku and raditz grew up well -> then died together)

[@espurrseyes42]

I'll say this in SSJ3's defense: It's only a "F it we ball!" form because Goku unlocked it while dead without a proper body, and he barely used it while Super Buu was around. He barely had an idea of the stamina drain on 3, and by the time he would've had time to try and train it, Beerus showed up and he had God forms. SSJ3 is bad because of other factors that make it not worth using. Blue is bad because it's meant to be a legit form with no real major drawbacks, but pretty much just takes Ls.

[@IIIISai]

Blue is bad cuz the lazy design and hue the usage works in the manga, ssj3 is a good form tho

[@espurrseyes42]

@@IIIISai Blue ain't supposed to have a crazy design. Much like God, which is literally a color swap of base, Blue is meant to be a color swap of SSJ since they literally describe it as SSG going SSJ. Hence the redundant and wordy original name of SSGSS. I'm not gonna hold an intended design choice against it. And frankly, I don't know what they could've done to give it a unique design without over designing it and making it look stupid. Again, which is the reason God is what it is. In terms of design, hell yeah 3 is a good form. In terms of function, hell no it ain't. It's Grade forms on crack, except Grades were always intended to be incomplete. SSJ3 was meant to be another proper ascension, but has the same issue as Grades where a flaw in it makes it near useless. It's a fricken Dragon Install if anything, which ends up making it bad as an actual form. And unfortunately, it never got the buffs Golden Frieza Install got in FighterZ.

[@IIIISai]

@@espurrseyes42 My issue with blue outside shanking god, is for some reason its capped at ssj1, goku does not try kaioken x god red, does not try ssj2 x red, I understand 3, but he woulda beat frieza if he went ssj2 or used even kaioken x2 which has 0 drawbacks..forgive my messy coming rant - Anime super has 0 logic, kaioken x20 with this supposed straining blue should kill goku immedietly, also look at the horrid scaling, god itself is like 6 digit amp, now x20? should be above all gods, thank god the manga didnt do this, they actually gave reason why he doesnt use ssj2, he barley mastered ssj1 blue unike the anime, though not sure what evo blue even is, grade 2? Anyways scaling aside, blue also has no unique qualities, doesnt give them pupils, doesnt have elemental aura (fire or ice, looks generic), we dont feel the god presence outside spoken scaling like oh its above red, also blue is not more bold than red from an eye standpoint, not sure what they were going for exactly, with the light tone they chose for blue I thought it would be an ice element, maybe that thick cold aura is why they are stronger, but its not even that nor blue fire, no healing properties or body changes, and yea no pupils, and looks worse than golden ssj Not to be extra but maybe blue eyeliner that stays highlighted, or some typa angelic halo but that would look fanficcy, I cant tell u what I would do atm since I stopped blue rework ideas a while ago, I stopped hating it when I realized its good in the manga and the anime just sucks, but man gold looks way better lol imo atleast, but yea anime and super movie blue is horrid use wise and colouring imo I got wayy off topic, yea ssj3 isnt practical, my headcannon is its an unatural impure form, where ssj2 is his peak and hes FORCING himself to go beyond, which is why his eyebrows leave as its an imperfect state, needs a tail to tame because hes forcing his oozaru power too, unless that transition was anime only, when I said ssj3 is good I meant as a form, idc if goku himself doesnt master I dont factor that in rankings, that would make god red F tier *How is red x yellow equalblue, something not adding up 🤣🤔*

[@espurrseyes42]

@@IIIISai He only learned to use Kaioken again after he got Blue. What's the point of using God Kaioken x10 when he can just go Blue, get a bigger multipler, and not break his bones doing so? And as for no Blue 2, if you don't like Blue's normal design, there's nothing SSJ2 is going to do to fix it when SSJ2 on anyone but Teen Gohan looks near identical to SSJ. Giving it Kaioken or Complete is a more interesting route to surpassing Blue since they both utilize aspects of the form itself, one taking advantage of a power it has, the other overcoming a flaw it has, rather than just being "Blue but stronger" like Darker Blue.

[@johnman8398]

​@@IIIISai They already explained how kaioken works in the anime, Blue doesn't strain the body so it wouldn't make sense for kaioken to kill him. We don't know how strong the gods are so saying he should be above them makes 0 sense. There doesn't need to be an explanation for why he doesn't go SSB2, that has never been stated to be a thing he can do. Blue has a completely unique aura and that's all it needs, its simple and that's fine, you add too many details and you get messy forms like SSJ3 that only look good on Goku or Gotenks or SSJ4 that only looks good on Goku and Gogeta. Idk why you thought SSB would have elemental abilities based on colour. Its very obvious what the Blue represents its a visual representation of what the form is about which control hence the calm light blues which contrasts with SSG's red.

[@gabriel9132-q1x]

Im gonna be honest the Granolah arc being criticized for the whole wishing for power thing is hella stupid, cuz it was gonna happen at some point. Also i think the "i want my sons to succeed" wish can (maybe) make for a nice opportunity for Raditz to come back or for him to at least make an appearance, cuz this is one hell of a plot hole, sure, Goku's good, but like, Raditz is in fucking hell.

[@rileyrose5166]

I mean, Raditz survived to adulthood when the rest of the Saiyans died, I feel like that alone can count as the wish doing its job

[@emza642]

shoutout the whole TSO Team!!!

[@christiankinne8747]

I think it would've been cool if Launch came back by having a baby with Tien, I mean outside of filler they never show where Tien and Chiaotzu live (or atleast that I remember, besides them training but they never show like they're house or anything) they should just be like oh yea she's just been chillin here the whole time, or say that they recently met up again. They don't even have to have a baby they could just be dating or some shit. The only reason I said have a baby is because Tien could tell the rest of the z fighters he's having a baby or had a baby and then when they ask who's the mother he can either say it's Launch and or have him show everyone Launch and all the other characters get hyped

[@bulletxwound3559]

Yeah I don't think launch should have an arc or back story. I do however wish she were still in the cast. Having her just completely disappear is crazy.

[@Pharr-Shot]

Damn good vid, & honestly, I ain't even a DB fan. Good stuff, keep it up, along with your Naruto & JJK content!!! Maybe some Chainsaw Man content?? That'd be dope!!

[@KingDues]

I liked moro in the beginning but moro was like cell fr first Androids and then getting *hit hard enough he spit it out and then gets mad and tries to hold the planet hostage.

[@IIIISai]

Bro watched casual guy explains anime 🤣🤣

[@Santzu_]

Moro is NOTHING like Cell. If anything Buu is Cell 2.0

[@KingDues]

@IIIISai caught me my guy lol. But I do agree with it though.

[@IIIISai]

@@KingDues Damn I actually got that right, and same I agree bro, u are a wise one

[@BobbyMoore2-mp8wb]

Gohan Beast is awesome 😎

[@talonslayer9286]

I think someone should have a form similar to ssj4 but like a saiyan instinct form like how ultra instinct and ultra ego are treated tbh

[@dungton6066]

For you point on like the Cell Saga being peak dragonball Z, well of course it is. It was the paid off of everything from the beginning of Z with Gohan, Vegeta and Goku. If Toriyama would’ve stick with his original plan with the Buu Saga, it might have been even better than Cell Saga. For some context, if you reread or rewatch the arc, you could see this struggle between should I make Goku or Gohan the main character

[@Multiverse-panther]

I actually like ssj rage, but I do see why people hate it and if it was called something else and if it didn’t look like just super saiyan with blue aura it would be a lot cooler.

[@IIIISai]

Naaa

[@reaper_is_unavailable]

I don't think the look necessary mattered too much (although it did look bad) it was more about the power scaling

[@Randomgoesbrrrr]

its not because of the name its cuz its an asspull there was no build up, no foreshadowing, they just needed trunks to be important

[@WispFigment]

I always kinda took Bardock's wish for his sons as just avoiding the destruction of planet vegeta tbqh

[@TrayJD]

Of course i miss the collab😭😭 Ima just start dying the discord fr

[@Oracle1426]

Thanks for having me Btw im one who said cell is overated

[@castform7]

I can disagree but respect your Cell take but I honestly think the Sadala suggestion you made could make for a killer arc and agree that we don't have to go into Black Frieza quite yet especially since they're gonna have to try their hardest to convince me that Frieza the prodigy isn't (low balling btw) equally boxing either fusion.

[@IIIISai]

Fax

[@jaygomex]

Why wasn’t launch in the series man ?

[@GlobalOutcast]

Bro I gotta ask when was the last time you watched the legendary super saiyan?

[@Seth-eq2ot]

saying z broly doesnt have a personailty is like saying an average dragon ball villain like cell or frieza doesnt have a personality, his motivations and backstory might be stupid and he is a worse character than super broly but he for sure has personality. muderous, bloodlusted and pure evil psycopath hell bent on destruction is definately a personality and one that alot of dragon ball villains have

[@thedoglovinggamer5825]

Fun fact: Despite the fact people say he hates Goku due to the crying he actually doesn’t, in the Japanese Dub of the Z Broly movie Paragus explained that Broly actually sensed Goku’s power when he first arrived on the trap planet/New Planet Vegeta and that caused his saiyan instincts to go out of control which made him see Goku as a powerful opponent he wanted to fight and kill, the crying had nothing to do with it. Also in the JP dub he only knows Goku’s saiyan name because Vegeta said it right in front of Broly. Broly also only starts remembering Goku right when he is defeated.

[@alicepbg2042]

Really hate when people go "z broly just says kakarot"... Have we watched the same movie? That dude has some of the coldest lines ever, he's super entertaining to watch fighting AND trash talking. His pure enjoyment of all the pain and destruction he causes makes him an amazing villain. Him tricking the shimosheans that he was gonna kill them, only for the ki blast to dodge them and destroy their home planet is such peak evil. Also pointing at goku and going "how much do you love your son?" and goku imediatly is like "gohan gtfo, now!" And then they fucked up broly in the sequels...

[@Chu_Chu_CHUMIMIN_Fridge]

Nah y’all tripping with the Z broly < super broly dialogue.

[@tylercoon1791]

I’m gonna defend Z Broly. You got most things wrong there. The backstory wasn’t about Goku crying, his lines were bangers, and he at least had a unique personality. Z Broly was just straight up sadistic, which Frieza was as well, but it hits different for Broly. He ain’t fighting because he thinks he’s better than you, like Vegeta or Frieza, he ain’t fighting cause he wants a good fight like Cell, he ain’t fighting just because you told him to, like S Broly. He’s fighting, because he wants to see you hurt. He throws a ki blast at a bunch of slaves to see the cower, only to arc it away, and then destroy their planet, and then laugh in their faces. That is the depths of despair that he wants to throw you into. In comparison, S Broly not unique at all. He was just Saiyan/Namek Gohan, complete with ‘waah! You hurt my daddy!’ power up

[@IIIISai]

W

[@NasirGiwa]

soo he is kid buu? but a sayain? like did we just forget about the buu saga ?? if super broly isnt unique z isnt either, super also had a way better and more sensible backstory, if its wasnt goku crying what the f was it then??

[@tylercoon1791]

@@NasirGiwa kid Buu isn’t really sadistic, just erratic, and even if he was, he came out well after Broly

[@josecriollo6976]

​@@tylercoon1791kid buu isn't sadistic? Bro he literally danced, laughed and pump his chest as he kicked goku, vegeta and fat buu's asses, lets not get started on him blowing up a galaxy planet by planet

[@kingdamazo7266]

Ain't gonna lie y'all Either I just don't remember og Broly as well I think or y'all let TFS gaslight y'all into thinking Broly just screams Kakarot during the entire movie Broly had hella dialogue with some quotable lines that hit hard, y'all tripping on that fr Now, someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Broly crazy because of being stabbed by King Vegeta & as well as his power making him rage? Like, I interpret his hatred for Goku/Kakarot as him associating Goku with this horrendous trauma from the beginning of his life. Maybe the crying is the only thing he remembers, latching that fear & pain onto Goku? He pretty much imprinted on him, but in a lunatic way right?

[@alexsmith3598]

I don't think Blue sucks, it's just definitely rushed.

[@espurrseyes42]

Super Broly is just Kid Gohan 3 (I get strong when mad and need to control that) who devolves into screaming and nothing more when he loses it, to the point where he doesn't even really have dialogue in FighterZ. Z Broly is just a straight up psychopath who, in the first movie at least, talked all sorts of crap once he got going in LSSJ. "Handicap? Is that another word for coffin?" "Kakarot, how much do you lose your son?" "You're a complete and utter waste of Saiyan blood?" "YOU Kakarot. I choose you to be the first of my victims." Name me one interesting thing Kid Gohan The Third said? Don't even get me started on what he did to the little green dudes' planet. JUST because he could. Just because his backstory was ass (as far as his trigger being Goku crying, the rest was fine) doesn't mean he didn't have a better personality and better dialogue than Kid Gohan Jr. Jr.

[@kaienglish271]

So what I’m getting from this is you like the typical repeated sadistic act we’ve seen on dragon ball multiple times ? Z Broly character is I want to kill stuff because I’m strongest that’s the same repeated thing as DKP , Vegeta and Frieza not different at all.

[@espurrseyes42]

@@kaienglish271 Except it's not because he's literally insane unlike all those other characters. He doesn't have a reason for causing destruction. He's not some galactic tyrant or Battle Warrior Royalty trying to prove something. He just does it. Psychopaths and sociopaths are not the same thing. And I'll gladly take the one note psychopath over Gohan Jr. Jr., retreading the same "I need to control my rage and stop being a wuss" arc Kale was already retreading. It's not better or more interesting just because it's "deeper", especially when it's knocking off of a knock off of a better telling of that arc.

[@kaienglish271]

@@espurrseyes42 what you typed for the first bit is LITERALLY DKP doing shit just because he can that’s nothing crazy at all 😂 also idk where ur getting this Gohan stuff from when Gohan literally never struggled to control his rage that’s not even apart of his character Gohan was more about letting go and yet u bring up Kale for some reason when her reading for raging was completely different. Broly is upset about a crying child and turns into another DKP doing shit just because being a tyrant like Frieza just because. If you like the cool edgy lines with the heavy rock metal music in the background sure 👍🏾

[@espurrseyes42]

@@kaienglish271 DKP does what he does because he's an evil king type figure. A SOCIOpath. He has the intelligence to not do bad things, but doesn't care to not. Broly does what he does because he's not right in the head. A PSYCHOpath. He doesn't even have the intelligence to keep himself in check and has to have a device put on him to keep him placated until Paragus wants to unleash him. You are ignorant. "Gohan literally never struggled to control his rage" That was literally his whole arc. He's only strong when he gets mad. That's how it always was. Until he trained with Goku to actually be strong, and the end of that arc was him unleashing all that rage for the last time, no longer holding himself back so he could protect him loved ones. "Broly is upset about a crying child" And girl Broly is upset because he lesbian lover doesn't give her 100% of her attention.

[@TSO_Sage]

idc bout none of that, we watching broly rn

[@Lebroly-James]

Even if z broly only said one word (which he doesn’t, not even in second coming), super broly literally *just* screams. That’s it.

[@IIIISai]

Super broly is obnoxious in the games

[@ephemeralbro]

Bro just ignored all his dialogue from the start of the movie and in the manga/super hero 😭🙏

[@Lebroly-James]

@@ephemeralbro what dialogue???? “My dad killed my dog…” “….I… thank you…..”??? Those bars to you??? 😂

[@yeetnessthegreater1298]

THANK YOU JESUS CHRIST. This man defending tf out of Dbs Broly acting like he has a better story and personality than Z Broly when he doesn’t

[@TheSuperGoober]

8:43 I mean, King Piccolo exists

[@DrBacalex]

8:51 Jesus Christ, so we’re just gonna ignore how Demon King Piccolo was way stronger than Tien, Roshi and Goku? Krillin gets killed by an underling. That wasn’t the first time they encountered someone way stronger

[@cjmax_822]

29:29 they lowkey did cook because then they can fight frieza on a new saiyan home world 🧠🧠🧠

[@cjmax_822]

Also another add on: Frieza could’ve found a way to traverse between universes, giving him access to the Super Dragon Balls and that’s why they go to U6

[@mr.goatgetaofcl]

24:40 Really, bro? Do you remember that one fight...? Uhm. I think it was with this Broly guy or some shit. Bro. Gogeta Blue cooked Broly throughout the entire fight. Plus, is anyone going to mention how SSJ Blue beat a majority of the competitors in the Tournament of Power?

[@engagepwner3396]

Okay i cannot blame you, but Z Broly really be saying some crazy hard lines. "Then please, do your best to make me kneel before you!" "Is that another word for coffin?" "You, Kakarot! I choose you to be the first of my victims." "A monster? No, i am a Devil." Like he got some mad quotables, to some extent i agree with that Z broly comment.

[@TSO_Sage]

we watching z broly rn

[@alicepbg2042]

​@@TSO_SageI obviously missed it since the comment is 6 hours old... but do keep in mind that in the original jp dub, goku crying as a baby had nothing to do with broly being angry

[@randomolisher]

It’s okay to like Z Broly or prefer Z Broly even with his flaws. I personally like both

[@eveofinprov2600]

23:10 Just to let people know, I was trolling when I said this. Should’ve said “Superman beats Goku”. 😈

[@Jonathan-fn5dq]

I really wish I was there to debate the Cell Saga Stan. I would have dropped a nuclear bomb argument on that kid. There are so many plot holes in the Cell Saga it’s insane. And you’re out of your mind if you think the cell saga had the best pay off in comparison to the legendary ssj transformation that had proper build up.

[@Savag3Tun3chi3]

Launch doesn't exsit because akira forgot her. He had bad memory ever since the early 2000s so that aneurysm

[@ZekuVA-u6p]

Vegeta from the saiyan saga is one of the worst villians of all time. His only legit kill in the saga was nappa, and nappa was the one who actually killed most of the z fighters. Vegeta just beat them up pretty badly and then got cooked, by them all before getting spared by krillin, granted after goku had to plead with him to spare him either way he was spared by not goku... but by krillin. His only dub in that whole saga was killing nappa and looking cool, nappa was the best villian in the whole of the saiyan saga and was more evil because he actually killed most of the z fighters before Goku even showed up 😅love your content bro

[@castform7]

I think Goten is ultimately inoffensive and gets a little too much flack but saying he is in anyway comparable to Kid Gohan is wild. Those are 2 completely different ballparks.

[@pmgvictor4625]

Comment #443 Random short idea who’s got the strongest “Pull up” game. For me I gotta give it to my mans Yamacha 🔥🔥🔥*beeeeep Nah, Nah nah now hear me out. Saiyan Saga bro pulled up with the Most Confidence and inspiring the others to fight before and after his death (What not to do). Made Krillin Crash out on the others. 🙌 but obviously Vegeta, Piccolo are fighting a close second place. (I’m joking I know it’s those two for first place but let me support my guy it’s tough out here)

[@yukiouchiha927]

The broly one is proof at this point man, yall dont even remember the OG Broly movie if your saying he has worse dialogue. I can name 3-5 iconic quotes from that movie right now, and if all others remember from Z broly is "Kakarot" thats just sad.

[@Louis_Guiabern]

Yeah and super broly doesn’t even say anything when he transforms

[@eranshachar9954]

The 2nd one- OMG YES! Z Broly fan here F Super Broly. How about the Saiyan saga as the best? I know I love it that much and Namek too.

[@ShanksFreecss]

Ngl sage best take was chiaotzu blowing himself being more funny than sad him blowing himself just for nappa to be fine had me laughing at that 🥷

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

Mfs want a backstory for every character 😂😭🤦🏾‍♂️

[@whitemamba24xe98]

Completely disagree with your Z Broly take. This whole notion that Z Broly was a mindless brute who only says one word (Kakarot) is such a lazy and misleading argument. That’s something you run with if you’ve only seen the TeamFourStar Broly movie Z Broly wasn’t the most complex or diverse character ever written but he DID have personality and character. Z Broly was capable of coherent thoughts and spoke with complete sentences while also being pretty intelligent as well. When Z Broly went legendary super saiyan, he was mopping the floor with the Z Fighters while taking mad smack, almost like he was he was playing some kind of sadistic game. Because Z Broly was an unhinged, sadistic, jock dickhead who knew he was unstoppable, and proved it by mercilessly beating the ever loving stuffing out of the Z fighters, while talking mad trash in the process. Go watch the first Broly movie and listen to Brolys dialogue as proof. Dude was straight up filthy with his trash talk. Broly is an arrogant, narcissistic, bully who loves inflicting pain and suffering on those weaker than him, in order to fuel his sadistic and narcissistic mind. Thats his character/personality In essence, Z Broly embodied the stereotypical Saiyan warrior. Arrogant, Powerful,over confident, while possessing an unquenchable thirst for battle, a being that shows no mercy to his opponents and destroys them without a second thought. Kinda like how Vegeta was when he was first introduced. As far as Z Broly “hating Goku because he cried” that’s so misleading as well. Broly was triggered upon seeing Goku the first time on the planet in the first Broly movie because Goku’s power triggered Brolys saiyan instincts. Even Paragus (Brolys father) shared the same sentiment. Because he knew that Broly Seen Goku as a threat. Also Broly seeing Goku again, does remind him of when Goku cried next to him when they were babies. But he doesn’t hate Goku because of the crying, Broly associates Goku crying with his horrible childhood and the traumatic experiences from that day. Such as Broly being stabbed as an infant, Broly and his father being thrown away like trash on planet Vegeta. Paragus putting that collar on and controlling Broly with a device. All painful memories for Broly that were triggered upon seeing Goku and remembering the crying because Broly was psychologically and emotionally damaged as a child, leading to Z Broly being the unhinged manic that we all know him as!

[@Johnathan-bl8fs]

TSO_Sage I challenge you to a debate Luffy beats Goku. Reply and we can set a date.

[@Beapartofthemovement]

Bro ngl I love your content asf but I have dnd on so I won’t get noti when you hit 100k

[@donnataescoffin9988]

Tell me kakarot, how much do you love your son

[@daxmoney5011]

my hot take is that Tien is the GOAT

[@jalenperez2611]

I think the whole “Nature vs. Nurture” argument for me doesn’t hit. I get the dichotomy between Goku and Gohan’s character, but if we’re going as far as to say there’s the same issue being handled between Goku & Vegeta’s fight, I disagree because I don’t believe there was enough of a build up for that payoff. Every time I hear this argument, I think it's a reach.

[@WurkNProgrez]

Why do content creators tap dance around the fact that they think Dragon is GOATed. Y'all be so damn meek. Somebody ask you if you think DB is the greatest anime ever and it be 59 damn caveats and acknowledgements. Just say the shit. The franchise ain't worth almost as much as All Of Marvel for no reason. I mean damn, say it witchyo chest.

[@The-Ghost-Of-Mugen]

I know. They'll say Berserk is better than Dragon Ball, but 70% of they content is about Dragon Ball 😂

[@arkkon2740]

Name one creator who hasn't said Dragon Ball isnt the most iconic, memorable, worthwhile series in the world while they just completely forget FoTNS, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Digimon, Pokemon, Doremon, Yu-Gi-Oh, fuckin beyblade. The only time I've heard someone say its outright bad is when its ragebait, not when it comes to criticizing the series for its writing, themes, or just the overall handing of the material. They effectively created multiple timelines to get past the fact that Toriyama cant write time travel despite this being the plot for 2 arcs.

[@IIIISai]

@@arkkon2740 u musts seen nothing, most db tubers have the doodoo regurgitated take of dbz is fun but not well written

[@Anti-AntiAintI]

Anime is a chicken cordon bleu dish... Dragon Ball is a big-ass bucket of chicken. There should be no shame in preferring a bucket of good-ass chicken. Idk why mfs feel obligated to get all fancy.

[@AdeloctissZeg]

​@@arkkon2740crazy how all the series you mention, none of them is as iconic as dragon ball.