Decoding Hambini's Wheel Tests: What did he miss?

[@peterjanovcik9973]

Why am I even watching this? I haven't bought a new wheel since 2003, on second thought, 2004. Very watchable video, obviously.

[@Mapdec]

That's impressive, what wheel has lasted you more than 2 decades?

[@peterjanovcik9973]

@@Mapdec Whatever came with my GT idrive in 2004, never serviced lol

[@davidburgess741]

​@@MapdecYou probably didn't ride it much. My 2003 base model had so so wheels. The I Drive mechanism didn't last. Built new wheels for it.

[@ryans6650]

@@peterjanovcik9973 I had a limited edition i-2k I-Drive and the eccentric BB bearing shell that was held by the dog bone would slop out pretty often. Absolutely loved that bike, but I eventually folded the hydroformed seat mast and broke it.

[@peterjanovcik9973]

My 0.0 needed a new dog bone and bushes and still rides well after many miles, I have another iDrive 4.0, the mechanism is intact but it squeaks more than a hundred dog toys and doors in an old castle put together. Mavic wheels with Deore XT hubs and dt Swiss spokes still in good nick, been ridden a lot.

[@ChinaCycling]

@ 4:00 Talking about internal rim width, you mention getting under the lip to measure. I don't think thats how internal width is measured. I've only ever seen it measured from inside of hook to inside of hook...? Maybe it's a bike shop thing.

[@Mapdec]

Hey Joe. Yes. When we encounter tyres that don’t seat correctly and swapping tyres yields the same result we will look for rim defects. Commonly it will be where a moulding flaw has been sanded out or a void has been filled. Next time I have an example I will post about it.

[@roribune8162]

​@@Mapdec did an AI write this response?

[@Mapdec]

@@roribune8162 no.

[@robertwhyte3435]

@@Mapdec 😂 that's what AI would say

[@Mapdec]

@@robertwhyte3435 we are doomed

[@ianthedondaws7559]

Definitely interesting but I’m loving the collection of Campagnolo boxes in the background 👍👍🙏

[@Mapdec]

As soon as they send the charging cable it will be on the channel

[@echtogammut]

I love seeing this kind of discourse and peer review.

[@peterlewis2255]

Important point on spoke tensions: Are they measured with a tyre on or off ? Especially with tight tubeless tyres. I only build with Alu rims, and steel J bend spokes, but I've had cases where wheel has been built to "mid-range" between max and min recommended tension (and yes +/- 5% variation from the mean on each side) according to the Park deflection gauge - but with a tubeless tyre fitted and inflated, the tension falls to significantly below the recommendation.

[@Mapdec]

Yes. That is a very important point. Well spotted.

[@Raymond-Farts]

I only watch Hambini for the comedy. I really don't take anything he says serious. I build my own wheels because I like aluminum rims and round steel spokes, using hubs of my choice.

[@paddymurphy-oconnor8255]

He is trying to imitate Durian Rider. 🙄

[@peterwillson1355]

Ditto

[@wayneclement7201]

The drop channel if large gives you some additional air volume too to run lower pressures

[@bink281]

Wouldn't that mean, if anything, a higher pressure would be needed since the additional air volume isn't contributing to the 'travel' of the tyre? So all it would do is slightly decrease the progression in spring rate as the tyre compresses. Similar to removing volume spacers in an air sprung mountain bike fork.

[@gravelbikemark]

He will love this 😂😂😂

[@ribblevalleycyclist]

Great video, really enjoyed it. One of the big issues I have, is getting the kgf value of carbon spokes from the wheel manufacturer. As you say, most Chinese wheel manufacturers are using ‘Unbranded’ spokes, that cannot be looked up. Also, I think Park Tool need to accept that carbon is the new norm, and update the TM-1 Conversion Table…… But then again, this may be tricky, because unlike steel, carbon isn’t a constant.

[@Mapdec]

I think it will take Park years to catch on. It’s an opportunity for someone. Love the channel BTW. Hope it’s going well.

[@ribblevalleycyclist]

@@Mapdec You do!!!!! Thanks, take that as a massive complement. Just struggle to find the time. I think Park will struggle with this one. Not only do they need to account for all the different spoke widths & thicknesses, but they also need to consider the grade of carbon used, and the bonding to calculating deflection. The possibilities could be endless!! …….. Suspect this is why we’ve not seen anything yet.

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

Good walkover of Hambini's review of a wheel. He sats ge makes an excellent bottom bracket. People are starting to talk about them as well.

[@MysticFluff1]

Hi Paul, love your work. With regards to your Park Tool spoke tension guage, there is a big variation in them when you buy them. Its easy to make a calibration jig for them so theyll be accurate, only costs about 20 quid to make.

[@Kamil_D.]

this is exactly what I had to do after buying Park Tool TM :) Even when there was a sticker by the local distrubutor, that is has been calibrated 🤭

[@tuttobicci]

Those spoke tension tools are seem as reliable as their shocking torque wrench.

[@MysticFluff1]

@Kamil_D. most park tool tools are over priced and poor quality, which is a shame because years ago they used to be decent.

[@Kamil_D.]

@MysticFluff1 some are poor, but still most of them are decent

[@ryans6650]

@@tuttobicci What ultimately matters is accurate tension relative to the other spokes. An experienced wheel builder is going to know if the spokes are grossly over tension and the gauge reading is erroneous. Even if the gauge is reading 140 instead of 130, it's still going to be accurate within a couple percent of the spokes next to it.

[@robertwhyte3435]

I'm only interested in technical analysis if it can be felt/experienced in use and is a safety concern.

[@kevvjj2629]

Stay away from Hambini. Association with him will only tarnish your very good reputation.

[@EK1H]

Very insightful video 👍

[@endtimeslips4660]

i confess the best wheel is still from the campagnolo, durability and the bearing are the best, the longer you use it, the more smooth it will be. chinese brand also good but not as good as campagnolo.

[@KeithHeinrich]

Arguable. I've just had the bearings in my Campagnolo wheels which I bought new replaced after less than 6000km, fair weather riding only. Apparently this is not uncommon for Fulcrum/Campagnolo wheels. Reviewers of products only advise what things are like when new because they don't have them long enough to find out how they go when used for any decent length of time. This channel sees the good bad and ugly, and that's one of the really valuable aspects about the information here.

[@endtimeslips4660]

@@KeithHeinrich because campagnolo use open bearing the hub need to be clean each 1000-1500 kilo and regrease.

[@KeithHeinrich]

@@endtimeslips4660 the manual states lube each 2000km and dismantle, check, lubricate every 10000km. And to be fair I have Campagnolo hubs decades old run like butter. This is why I was surprised to only get 5000km out of the last set. New bearings and all good again.

[@endtimeslips4660]

@ vietnam road especialy in my place not so clean. hub fast get dirty.

[@Yamaha_Bolt]

Excellent discussion. In terms of additional content I want something on build quality either a Hambini endorsement badge (or rating out of 10), a video of inside the rim, warranty spec and if the company builds wheels under various brand names.

[@4ndyc74]

The hamster has been shilling hard for the last couple of years

[@stuartbird5139]

What are some wheels with a deep drop channel? I have a winspace lun carbon rim brake wheelset and find mounting tyres to be very difficult, so id expect them to have a shallow drop channel?

[@marbo4041]

nice video! I often see reference to bike frame fit specifications, mostly in relation to press fit bottom brackets. Is that from a Shimano document, is it publically available and what is it actually called?

[@Mapdec]

Yes. I discuss it in a recent video. The one with the dura ace BB in the thumbnail.

[@michaelmechex]

Sram has a very nice and thorough document on frame fit specifications on their website as well. It has everything. Technical drawings of all BB types, dropouts, brake mounts, hubs and freehub bodies, diagrams on frame clearance for cassettes, brake calipers, all their crank models... It's an absolute gold mine of information I reffered to a lot when I designed my own bike frame.

[@moobaz8675]

Questioning Hambini? There’s brave.........🤔🤭😆

[@RICHARD.WRIGHT1]

Hambini does his channel as play thing, to take the piss outta the industry(which has already become a real joke and all those in it). As far as I know he does'nt make a living from talking about wheels and BB'S on YT.

[@Mapdec]

He will earn quite well from all the affiliate marketing links etc.

[@edmundming2921]

Would like to hear your take on Light Bicycle... Thank you.

[@Mapdec]

We have a video on that.

[@stevenaaus]

Haha.. Hambini is a bit rough'n'ready in his bike maintenance vids.. This attitude doesn't really inspire confidence in reviews. Mapdec is a much more meticulous guy... But tbh, carbon wheels bore me silly. :)

[@BrianAndTheBike]

One is an engineer the other one a salesman, Mapdec will sell his grandma for a bike if he could

[@Mapdec]

Weird, and yet you won't find any affiliate links, discount codes or random gifted scooters on our channel

[@ryans6650]

@@BrianAndTheBike Exact opposite. Hambini posts affiliate links on his videos that he gets a kickback from.

[@morrisizing]

​@@BrianAndTheBikebut one has rather large suggestion he is economical with the true. Particularly there is zero evidence of windtunnel wheel tests and legitimacy of various claims around employment etc.

[@greg4318]

I don’t even understand where this video is coming from…….where’s the motivation here Paul, pretty gutless stuff sitting there slagging off work, half of which you probably don’t understand and cherry picking things you would put into his format…….least he has a format. Here’s a suggestion…..if you want to do a video like this, have the integrity to have Hambini on and go through the data and your questions face to face……..far more useful than this. I also would question your underlying motivation as you have liked all the Hambini ‘hater’ comments and not pulled them up on their moronic statements……extremely poor stuff, this one was a real low point in your channels history.

[@Mapdec]

It came from viewers asking what it all meant and how relavent it is, and then as I researched it raised a lot of questions. I hope that you found it useful and it opens a discussion on what wheel test should and shouldn’t include.

[@greg4318]

@ still doesn’t gel from a motivational standpoint - as previously stated, gutless, pathetic and a real low point for your channel……the format you chose speaks volumes….

[@pdelacy]

Tangentially related question... can the hub of my Shimano Ultegra C-50 rear wheel be upgraded to work with the SRAM Force 10-36 12 speed cassette XDR that I bought for a new bike build, hoping to use on my existing carbon wheels from my current Shimano Ultegra set up bike, only to realise XDR is not HG!!! 😮🤭

[@Mapdec]

Unless there is a 3rd party making one, this is not possible

[@pdelacy]

New hub purchased as I need the 36 tooth to get up hills!!!

[@joehart3826]

Cytech 2 &. 3, 10% tension variance is viewed as being excellent, interesting you reckon 5% is readily achievable. I guess for a pro it must be

[@Mapdec]

To pass a national apprenticeship you will need to do

[@Kamil_D.]

@@Mapdec my third wheel I did took me 60 mins .....

[@davidburgess741]

​@@MapdecI'll never know because I don't have a spoke tensiometer. On an aluminum rim at least, variations in roundness in a rim influence what is possible. I do know that my wheels stay true a long time. No metrics associated with that claim! I know where to seek warranty performance too.

[@Mapdec]

@@Kamil_D. do you want a job 👏. That’s impressive.

[@Kamil_D.]

@@Mapdec I guess it is around 1000km from here to your shop. daily commicing is going to be kinda difficult 😃

[@MTBTrekRoutes]

Would be nice to see some more e-bike videos

[@PeakTorque]

Whats the end goal of this video? Have you got some data? I hope so! 1. 140kgf is quite normal for carbon spokes. Any less and they tend to come loose or vibrate under braking as there is far less stretch than a steel spoke. 2. Any tension meter can be calibrated to any spoke by hanging known dead weights off a spoke and taking readings off a TM1. Very basic and accurate.

[@Mapdec]

Can you link me to a carbon spoke that is rated to 140 please? I have never seen one. End goal is just to start the discussion on what is important to know in a test like this.

[@JoeyMills-y3v]

Yes it's important to know what's important to know, you know? I feel zero friction could help with setting up the tests, as he is a master of the heath Robinson school of imagineering.

[@JP-hr7ch]

@@Mapdec There are plenty rated at 140kgf, for example Winspace Lún Hyper.

[@Mapdec]

@ that’s BS. Winspace don’t even list the spoke tech sheet so you can repair a set. Link me to their website that says tension the wheel to 140kgf.

[@JP-hr7ch]

@@MapdecJust Bing-Google Lún Hyper Spoke Tension

[@johnkasza2315]

For the crap he gave ADAM from ZERO FRICTION for just questioning his testing methods, i wouldnt give him a penny..woud never trust his opinions.,,ever see him handle a tool? not a mechanic....sideshow channel for a giggle,..MAPDEC for trusting bike knowledge!!!

[@sabamacx]

Adam/ZFC has zero scientific background or training and it's painfully obvious.

[@JoeyMills-y3v]

Zero friction doesn't have any testing methods, he just makes numbers up. There is no scientific evidence he tests anything, if you think there is you dont understand science 😂

[@greg4318]

The criticism of ZFC is completely justified………what about the criticism is incorrect in your opinion? You’re a fool….

[@johnkasza2315]

@@greg4318 Panties in a bunch? Go feed your cat mary

[@johnkasza2315]

@@greg4318 my opinion is you know nothing about cycling..ive got 32 thumbs up..how many do have? go feed your cat karen

[@BOONERBOYO]

wheelception. a wheel within a wheel.

[@WebShoppert]

Love your videos. Professional, credible. The opposite of Hambini actually. In this video you’ve ran into endless flaws of his “re…”, can’t even really call it a review. Ignore the guy, he’s full of bs, and this video is again more evidence to back that up. As you say, what he hasn’t done so far is release testing methods nor any visual evidence he actually performed them. And that ain’t the first time. The guy throws with industrial testing equipment he doesn’t own, of which some require specific knowledge and skill to operate, and too expensive to just borrow for personal experiments. He’s dreamed he done the test and wrote it out during breakfast.

[@JoeyMills-y3v]

So he's just the same as zero friction. KZbin pretengineers are hilarious 😂

[@jamesspokes1372]

lol.

[@greg4318]

Idiot…

[@peterwillson1355]

Everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel. Just go up a gradient.

[@_J.F_]

@ 1:02 "There's some data on here that is missing" is a bit of a contradiction isn't it? 😂 Aside from that I think it is a fantastic idea to aim for some reliable testing of these parts that the average cyclist, and possibly many bike mechanics too, have no chance of achieving accurately themselves.

[@531c]

An interesting video. Im sure performance gains can be made with carbon aero wheels with bladed spokes, however for me reliability trumps everything. I had a pair of wheels built up by Malcolm, proprietor of The Cycle Clinic Suffolk. Sadly now recently closed down. Reliability folks, remember that!

[@michaeltilney1298]

Handbuilt wheels are also generally endlessly serviceable. I wonder how many of these smaller brands will still be suppling spares in 10 or even 5 years time?

[@ryans6650]

@@michaeltilney1298 If you stay away from the proprietary carbon spokes, most Chinese manufacturers just use Sapim or Pillar for steel spokes. Hubs or rims you are kind of SOL.

[@joehart3826]

Cycle Clinic website still works? Has Mr Borg really retired?

[@morrisizing]

Aerodynamically, I think it would depend on spoke count as most of the carbon spokes are individually less aero given the width and depth ratio of the blade, the thicker often longer round sector near the spoke nipples and hubs. Some have a larger double nipple design like far sport (one bonded to the spoke to stop it turning as you can't use the tool used to hold aero steel spokes, the other to tighten / loosen the spoke. I doubt this is as aero as hidden or normal spoke nibble designs.

[@fleurdelispens]

Paul wants to know about those other pawls

[@craigstephenmcdonald9915]

Not one mention of a hairdresser! I think you have to add both the video and the data for a result.

[@kidShibuya]

More trust me bro hambini methodology...

[@chrisb5824]

Paul Paul Paul... Your channel is loved for your integrity, honesty, expertise, and your respect for others - even when your opinions differ. You obviously have a passion for cycling, cyclists and the cycling community... Why are you even engaging with this low life? He has no respect, lies, has no care for 'cycling' and simply trashes anyone for the sake of extra views. I'm very disappointed in you!

[@Mapdec]

Why. I hope this is subtly helping viewers question those results without it turning into a drama.

[@chrisb5824]

K - I obviously don't like the guy. But I've recently watched the GCN channel having a chat with the 'bearings' guy - educational and fascinating. Adam at ZFC - again so much to learn and he's such a geek 😊. Even Josh at Silca has some great things to share about waxing, cleaning drive trains etc... These guys are a credit to cycling - they love the sport, they are like you! What does Hambini bring to the party? What's his specialist area? What's his credentials? Why him?

[@joehart3826]

Cytech level 4 this stuff...

[@KeithHeinrich]

This is almost science. Excellent. The issue remaining is evaluating performance in a robust and repeatable way since numbers alone are simply an indication.

[@zedtony8110]

More and more people are realising that H is a joke.

[@NoName-ot]

Please ignore Hambini - he is a shock jock, and a bully. The way he targeted a female journalist in 2020 was diabolical. In addition, he tried to discredit ZFC, with flawed arguments. Mapdec is better than that.

[@bunglevic]

100% his language towards female staff at the Euro bike show was unacceptable. His a bully, sexist Andre Tate wannabe.

[@morrisizing]

Also no evidence he has taken any wheels to a wind tunnel.

[@feedbackzaloop]

To be fair, she had it coming. To be fair again, ZFC has it right.

[@Andy-co6pn]

​@@morrisizing waste of time ...yaw (n)

[@doctorscoot]

I gave up on Hambini, "age 5", his channel is almost nothing but outrage bait. He's _selling_ this data, and yet his methods remain unknown? Compare this to Adam at Zero Friction Cycling, who Hambini accused of nefarious motivations, and yet whose data is free and methods openly published. I just can't take Hambini as a credible source while he engages in infantile rage-baiting.

[@JoeyMills-y3v]

Zero friction has provided no evidence he does any testing at all 😂

[@doctorscoot]

@ ok hambini fan boi, the whole thing where you can download all the data and the detailed explanation of the methods used don’t exist if you don’t look for it. 🤔

[@JoeyMills-y3v]

@doctorscoot that's not evidence, guy who doesn't understand the scientific method. Plus you have no evidence i am a hambini fanboy either, why you hate science? 😂

[@JoeyMills-y3v]

@doctorscoot btw I know you're just another zero friction sockpuppet account. That's your real job lol.

[@doctorscoot]

@@JoeyMills-y3v you’re very invested in whatever fantasy world you’ve built for yourself

[@infocuslearning]

Not interested in anything Hambini does or says. He is infantile, nasty, an incompetent bike mechanic and doesn't understand science.

[@theillegalimmigrant9314]

He released a video earlier today explaining those numbers using a test wheel. He clearly stated that deflection tension meters provide inaccurate readings on bladed spokes because they bend unevenly in different directions. These meters were originally designed for round spokes. It seems he may not make the video publicly available, but based on that explanation, your analysis appears to have some inaccuracies. Perhaps reaching out to him beforehand would have provided clarity and strengthened your argument. As it stands, your take comes off as a bit amateurish, like someone working in a bike shop rather than an engineer.

[@Mapdec]

We spoke before this video went out, it is probably why he made his. The deflection thing he stated isn't correct either as they are associated with relevant lookup tables. You are correct, I own a bike shop, my channel comes from that angle. You don't appear to have watched the whole video before writing this comment.

[@MrRedChamp]

@@MapdecJust stop including his name or talking about him or acting like you have anything linked to him. You are doing it to get views but by doing so you are promoting an unacceptable member of the cycling community. Do you want your customers, male or female to think you are in some way linked to him after his continued disgusting attacks on people within the industry? Seriously Paul, you put videos out showing how bike mechanics and the bike industry should be taken more seriously yet still include someone who is exactly the reason why it is so shit for some many people. Making out that they know better than everyone else and being sexist are both key reasons why the bike industry is on its arse and can’t encourage more people to enjoy cycling and look after their bikes

[@chrisb5824]

​@@MrRedChamp agree 100%... Paul - why??????

[@johnkasza2315]

@@MrRedChamp You dont know Paul....but you accuse him of click bait videos? Keeping your head in the sand thinking the little beaver man will go away by not mentioning him is just silly and WEAK!

[@feedbackzaloop]

What video? Is it for patrons or did I come late enough for it to be taken down? Either way, his method is as good as a lookup table because the equation stands for the string of constant cross setion.

[@MarcSasso]

With most current crossed spoke wheels, Carbon spokes do not contact or touch each other therefore the vibration length would not be affected. Why mislead viewers? What are you trying to hide, why not reveal this information correctly? Are you trying to make Hambini look foolish? Play fair Paul! Carbon spoke wheels where spokes cross and contact each other are improperly engineered and will friction erode/abrade against each other with use, until spoke failure results.

[@Mapdec]

Good point. Applies to testing metal spokes though.

[@DaveCM]

I know Winspace originally had carbon spokes that touched. But, it caused issues and they changed it pretty quickly.